Micro 1088: Carbon 14 - Game Over

[sheepsaysmeep]

Hello world

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think we should seer cover / hypoclaiming

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Oh he beat me to it lemme read Dunn post

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Ok I agree mechanically. But I think it’ll be disappointingly useless in this setup, like literally a 50%+ chance we’re in lylo tomorrow and then might as well fullclaim

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VOTE: heipizhu

Also the version I was thinking was that we don’t claim seer vs cop and only claim a peek. Idk if it makes a meaningful difference

Actually it doesn’t because like, either we’re in lylo tomorrow and massclaim, or we flip a scum today and we already know which cop has value

[sheepsaysmeep]

ur welcome

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thats pretty smart

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imaginality and dunn vibe town I think

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if I had to force something

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cuz game slow as shit

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at a glance, that math seems not quite right because it should factor in the random chance of limming mafia today which is pretty decent

[sheepsaysmeep]

meh idk

I think gameplaywise, doing a d1 where people try to lim other people is necessary. informationally

otherwise youre in lylo and you have some results but youre just completely guessing among the other people because the game only really starts then

[sheepsaysmeep]

Wow that was the most interesting moment of this game

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Let’s just call my townreads on Dunn and imagine correct and then our chance of hitting mafia is like 50%!!!11!1!1

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: pc

[sheepsaysmeep]

E-1 btw lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

I don’t really get the benefit of your strategy?

I think the relevant information from who someone would’ve targeted is near 0

[sheepsaysmeep]

Ehhhhh I guess I see the point more now

I disagree with it because:
a) personally if I were mafia I would probably just ignore it because the chance real cop targets is kinda low enough
b) it could force the real cop to do suboptimal checks. like maybe the useful role gets randed onto a person who was already obvious town anyway and it’s sorta wasted

but idk we can see what others think

[sheepsaysmeep]

I’m sorry I am struggling to find it worth it to read that whole thing

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PC do u have a completed scumgame

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interesting

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I think PC is within town meta.

in the newbie game I played with him he was reallyyyy aggressive and confrontational, and I correctly townread him for the way . I was actually going to call the imaginality/pc thing w/w lol but I thought more and PC just seems town so nvm

[sheepsaysmeep]

that is not a finished post

I correctly townread him that game for the way he turned his interactions Into a really big thing. each time someone said something to him he like amplified it with a bunch of stuff in response.

the game he linked feels surprisingly different; I feel lucky that he seems so polarized lol. that game is like, way more mellow and agreeable and with broad views on all the players rather than honing in on people

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think dunn is towny and nurse is scummy. I just think his point about nurse was really good lol. nurse seems to have no inkling of desire to move the game forward with the aggression of his town game, even if it's just rvs like I'd expect some instinctive trying to do things

[sheepsaysmeep]

heipizhu is like... towny, but weirdly townier than the newbie game lmfao to where im slightly scared he might be being coached.

like as town in his newbie game he kept giving reads that it was really difficult to townread him for as hard as I tried.... but post 62 is just a towny list of reads. lmfao

above null I guess

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: nurse

[sheepsaysmeep]

hey PC

I remember in the newbie game you started by asking a looooooooot of questions. like in response to each post a list of like 10 questions

can you explain why you've stopped doing that? it bothers me a little

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also ceeja was a little towny, I just liked his thoughts in 60

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I take no responsibility if these reads are really wrong lol, I refuse to let myself be embarrassed if that happens

doing what I can with the material there is in thread lmao

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try not to reference ongoing games btw

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If I'm wrong on PC (I have no idea how reliable sheep's town meta read on PC is)

I am not insanely confident but hpz saying something similar 2 posts above you makes me feel better about it

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if anyone wants to read:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=50&t=91019&user_select%5B%5D=17484

this is the PC town game in question, heipizhu was also In it

viewtopic.php?t=91041

this the very different scum game that he linked

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PC do you have any thoughts on random nurse / Dunn's push on random nurse

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This game is crawling like butter and I'm struggling not to replace out.

How can one do extreme engagement on page 3 or 4?

I already struggle with Day 1 and when the game is flowing like molasses I'm having a hard time here.

obviously

extreme

engagement would be weird, but it's like, interesting things have 1000% happened. so if u have an interest in engaging with stuff, liek thats your style as town, then I'd expect to see some semblance of that here but u dont even seem to have an INterest in engaging

[sheepsaysmeep]

like, does Dunn's push on you make u think/wonder anything about his potential alignment?

even if any thoughts could easily be faulty

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everyone should like give a set of reads and explain them or something

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I could also honestly be ok with just hammer nurse rn sorry

just depending on what type of game people want to play here. two different philosophies

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I guess ceeja starts to ping my gut the more I think about the game; he would prob be my next guess after nurse

like post 96 feels more like a remark from an informed pov rather than someone who's actively curious about peoples' alignments lol

but I can feel myself starting to force stuff

[sheepsaysmeep]

an idea im just crafted in my head (this could be a bad idea)

we point to someone and say "Both investigative roles should target this same person"

mafia prob wont kill that person because then we just controlled their nightkill onto the person we wanted (very pro-town)

if mafia fail to kill one of the investigatives, then everyone hardclaims. either u have a guilty or u have THREE clears

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nvm I realized why it doesnt work lol

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weh

[sheepsaysmeep]

You know, as Town I can't help but feel this game is on the harder side. Meaning, I don't think I like this particular open setup.

Can't do much about it now, and my Scumhunting game is sh*t Day 1.

I am very susceptible to wanting to read the emotions of this post as town lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

even tho I dont rly get it

imo this is a pretty townsided setup I think and I dont see why being a bad d1 scumhunter is relevant to it idk

[sheepsaysmeep]

lol

VOTE: ceeja

idk

[sheepsaysmeep]

with 2 days left this is personally not a top wagon I approve of

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pee

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in terms of posting I still actually want to be voting drew but I kinda want to give him the day phase just cuz I feel like he could get more readable lol which is fine with me cuz what really am I going off of

[sheepsaysmeep]

ehhh

[sheepsaysmeep]

where my crappy page 6 world building takes me is

sheep town

im surprisingly confident in political clout and hpz being town

dunn and imaginality are ok

and I think dunn and nurse are the scummiest

except I dont feel like dunn and nurse are w/w... I dont think the stance drew chooses to take there after subbing in is to back Dunn's push on nurse if he just subbed into a team with nurse

[sheepsaysmeep]

and I think dunn and nurse are the scummiest

I wrote this wrong

drew and nurse are the scummiest

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think towny to scummy is like dunn>imag>nurse>drew

I do kinda feel Sheep is trying to control the gamestate a bit too much, not sure if it is a thing......or just them wanting to inject some action into the game(which I get).

like I dont like this line idk

omgus I guess

it just feels like it sneaks some shade in in caseee I need to be limmed someday for not good justifiable reason (I struggle a little to empathize with seeing my trying to make things happen as trying to control the gamestate in a certain direction)

[sheepsaysmeep]

if nurse is partnered: it's not with dunn, it's not with drew, maybe it's with imag

if drew is partnered, I also think it's most likely with imaginality lol. I think dunn is unlikely (Im not sure he would join Dunn's push like that, but this is an iffy take) and I had a gut w/w ping from drew's meh scumread on imag as either tmi or just kinda forced weirdly

I dunno

maybe I want to vote imag here lmao

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: imaginality

maybe we can have 2 competing wagons from this day phase wouldnt that be so interesting and fruitful and exciting

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actually ceeja-drew slot permanently parking his vote on imag the whole time he was around doesnt feel w/w lol

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VOTE: drew

[sheepsaysmeep]

my thinking about drew based on a game we recently played:

a) he subbed into the game as a wolf. he was in a bad position, and because of that he played a relatively extreme big way because he felt something needed to change, and tried to be very like his towngame

b) night 1 two of his scummates died and he was just in a bad position the whole game that wasnt really winnable and I think that must've been kinda painful for him and he'd try to avoid ending up somewhere similar here


I think if drew is scum he's never with nurse. I think he would not come in and push his partner over the line to being killed because of point b. I think if he's wolf he must be with a wolf who's doing really well, like a deeper wolf

I think because I think there's only one wolf between drew and nurse and never two wolves, and I lean to drew being scummier than nurse, im not rly ok with a nurse lim before drew lim

[sheepsaysmeep]

doing something with this game is hard

lol

if I am saying remotely reasonable things I am impressed with myself

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im suddenly thinking imaginality/nurse makes the most sense. imaginality hyperfocuses badly on PC in order to avoid discussing some of the nurse stuff. he scumreads nurse but says weirdly nothing about him despite imaginality being one of the more active people

drew teams seem less likely to me. maybe it would be drew/pc or something

[sheepsaysmeep]

yeah I dont think drew has a scumpartner in this game I guess lol

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VOTE: nurse

e-1

[sheepsaysmeep]

I dont feel like this is something that is good to publicly discuss.

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but yeah I'll offer a general thing, in this setup it's better to aim relatively scummier. cuz inno results are unlikely to be useful but guilty results are useful

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why is this the lim for today?

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oh lol

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I thought that was a hypoclaim strategy he was proposing for all of us

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I've been thinking about this too we can instead of hypoclaim claim who we are going to check d1 before the hammer. I think it would be beneficial to do this because it let's us know who everyone is actually suspicious of, who the 2 pr's would have been on if one of them flips, the objection i see is that what if the pr's target someone who is town and the pr's end up murdered. I think we can get around this by randomly assigning who checks who like from the playerlist the person above checks the person below them or something. and keep in mind we can say we are doing this but at the end of the day the person who has the role can do whatever they want. I think if they are murdered in that way we can be more honest in our inspection of who we are questioning.

If I remembered it right, this is a wwf stragegy, right? It worked in wwf because the peer sheriff have the ability to pass the sheriff role out after they die, and can give out info via the passing process. (No idea if the terminology is correct, cause I play the game in Chinese with my friends, but hopefully you got the idea)

now that I think about it more with what you said heip the strategy for this game is for town to claim outright to confuse and hide the pr's. like multiple people would claim cop and multiple people would claim seer and then at the end of the day they would claim who they would be on if they want to. and if a "cop" or "seer" died at night we would know if it was mafia or werewolves. I don't know if we nolim I think it's worth considering since it appears this setup is scumsided and while there are a lot of things that might lead to this one of them might definitely be the meta of this site to lynch day 1. I definitely remember playing a variation of this game somewhere. it's escaping me rn, but I think that's the optimal strategy. also I think it's a good strategy because whoever is red would want to claim the role they might cc. so there would definitely probably be a scum in both the ones who claimed seer and the ones who claimed cop or alternatively both scum might jump onto one role. I think this small shift in perspective of there is definitely one scum in the other group can be very helpful when looking at the game or when there are a lot more claims on one side their is probably two scum there making the other side virtually clear. I should probably read what others did before us and look up an old carbon game.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I guess it feels like that was a bit towny of u tho lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

to be honest doctor drew my inclinations here are that you are the person I'd want to vote

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to be honest doctor drew my inclinations here are that you are the person I'd want to vote

what are your inclinations doctor drew

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I forgot some things I thought yesterday like your apparent unpartneredness

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ceeja was scummy to me

seemed informed the way they treated the pc vs imagine thing without being curious about their alignments / without solving. instead literally just was like "lol if this were two towns that'd be funny"

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and I still dont like ur remark about me possibly driving the game too much

I just see it more easily as like, scum realizing "dang in this setup literally everyone needs to be a mislim option"

and I find it harder to empathize with as like a legit thought when I reread my posts personally

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk I think ur chance of being scum is probably less than 50% but like what is there to rly work with lmfao

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think my inclination was like dunn/imaginality

dunn.. i was gonna call it scummy how he just poked nurse and waited for that to get nurse limmed and didnt rly sort stuff outside that? but I remember meta descriptions of dunn calling that spotchy focus town for him and I guess I believe that

political might actually be my top town

ehh

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think my inclination was like dunn/imaginality

dunn.. i was gonna call it scummy how he just poked nurse and waited for that to get nurse limmed and didnt rly sort stuff outside that? but I remember meta descriptions of dunn calling that spotchy focus town for him and I guess I believe that

political might actually be my top town

ehh

drew/imaginality*

lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

I really wanted to say something but aside from imag's and PC's brief scuffle nothing really grabbed my interest on the previous page

What did you want to say?

only that it would be funny if both of you were town

like this comment in particular lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

huh

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The thing with what political did is that based on reactions scum can rule out who is not the cop. Depending on how Heip reacted.

do u think it was deliberate from pc to try to hunt the cop

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this game is so sad lol

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PC who would u think imaginality's partner is. what are ur reads

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and what do u think about the nightkill

it feels like you havent had much of an interest in solving unless ive prodded u

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I guess it feels like that was a bit towny of u tho lol

to be honest doctor drew my inclinations here are that you are the person I'd want to vote

is it towny of him or is it scum of him what is this.

scummy overall, ever slightly towny sequence of posts though; im not confident

[sheepsaysmeep]

I forgot some things I thought yesterday like your apparent unpartneredness

what were you thinking yesterday?

it's in my posts at the end of yesterday lol

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PC who would u think imaginality's partner is. what are ur reads

dunn probably you maybe. dunn feels like he has just talked about setup and that's all I remember about their slot.

why do you rule out drew; can you summarize your thoughts on him?

[sheepsaysmeep]

gah

I guess if the guilty is real that reinforces my drew/imaginality team theory that I like?? but like suddenly I thought about PC and doubted my townread lol

pedit oh wow

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Also @sheep can you explain your town read on PC?

town pc: very in your face, trying to get what he thinks is good to happen, lots of questioning

scum pc: seems a bit more nervous and appease-y vibes

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why did you check drew over PC?

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I thought there was gonna be some logical fallacy behind PC claiming cop as seer

but it actually makes perfect sense based on his strategy lol

if he claims seer, and seer is the True cop, he wont die cuz he claimed cop

if he claims seer, and seer is useless, then he might die and then the real cop knows that cop is valid and is living

it actually works geniusly bruh

[sheepsaysmeep]

why did you check drew over PC?

I thought if PC is scum I might be the NK considering I was heavily suspicious of PC all D1, so I didn't think it likely I'd live to claim a guilty. Whereas I could see Drew as an under the radar scum and thought that scum teams with Drew would have less reason to target me.

ok this makes sense to me

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: imaginality

I'm hard claiming seer, imag is a werewolf.


The whole thing day 1 was just to hide my actual role and so I wouldn't die in the night. I think I achieved that fairly well. But I think the whole wifom of me claiming cop is marinating in towns mind and leading them down dark paths.

overall I am claiming today partly because of that instead of continuing to hide and I caught a wolf

, partly because nothing is really happening this game and maybe this can jump start it and town can figure out who the last wolf is tomorrow when I die tonight.

The way this is worded makes it obvious it's from scum perspective. PC is under suspicion so a Seer claim either wins the game or at least outs the real Seer.

A town Seer with a guilty in elo isn't gonna make the first half of that post all about self-preservation. Or say they're claiming the guilty to jump start action.

A town Seer would either be like "hi I'm Seer, I have a guilty on X" or wait to see if X gets limmed without them having to claim maybe. Risky in elo but with other people voicing suspicion of me a town PC might have waited. Instead of thinking "ah, seems like enough suspicion on imag that I can fake a guilty there and be believed"

VOTE: PC

if I understand this post correctly tho I dont really agree with it

I think scum fakeclaiming / seer claiming real guilty would be pretty similar in this regard. both understand that they need to express the guilty and get the guilty limmed while also not dying themselves

[sheepsaysmeep]

god

wouldnt it be a weird lucky coincidence if PC was scum fakeclaiming seer guilty on imaginality and then imaginality was the real seer ????? I feel like this points in PC's favor

I feel like if PC was scum and then the seer was anyone other than imag he wouldve been screwed over


p-edit fair enough

[sheepsaysmeep]

god

I find imaginality iso actually fairly towny except disagreeing with most points of his PC push

[sheepsaysmeep]

I was gonna call the PC early self-vote to be town cuz it seems like scum would be more scared of being lolhammered than town would be

but with today's hindsight it doesnt seem like a seer would put themselves at e-1???? hmm lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

Imaginality can u describe why u townread dunn d1

as well as if u happen to remember any thoughts u had about drew/ceejay? or were they just sorta poe

[sheepsaysmeep]

the thing is. if I didnt have meta I'd be scumreading PC in this game. and in my last towngame with him, Without meta, I reached a confident townread. ??


but at the same time based on meta he's still a confident townread lmao

like which way I vote is almost a question of personal philosophy

[sheepsaysmeep]

gah

I guess if the guilty is real that reinforces my drew/imaginality team theory that I like?? but like suddenly I thought about PC and doubted my townread lol

pedit oh wow

I feel like you keep switching between saying it is me/imaginality and drew/imaginality and I'm not sure if you are just mixing our names up.

yeah it's just mixing up names lol.

I think drew/imaginality is like, more likely than rand, they felt w/w

I had no reason why u are more or less likely than rand to be paired with anyone lmfao ur like an empty space

[sheepsaysmeep]

Drew u need to be talking about what ur thinking lmao

[sheepsaysmeep]

This is very difficult for me and I would appreciate if both sides could like tldr why they are villager and why the other is wolf lol

In like simplest form few sentences

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think I suddenly started ever slightly favoring imaginality

Things have made me like both sides

gut likes PC self defending so unabashedly lol like not hiding the fact that he is desperately preserving himself


Imag I like his partner hunting and sorta believe it… like I already liked the second half of 251 before the more in depth stuff lol

The thing is that my gut wants imag because my gut screams drew-imag team lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

It is 3 am so I truly do not know which way I prefer hopefully it’s like something is chosen without me even mattering rather than me being the decider lol

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Ahhhhhh

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My first thought was that I’m not down to just lim drew because I’m not confident at all that Dunn isn’t scum

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I dk

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I’m actually like

I’m townreading PC recently and the dilemma is so hard that I might actually indeed prefer looking in drew/Dunn since both drew/Dunn and pc/imag pools contain 1/2 wolf blah blah

But id need time then to process what I think about them lol because I’ve thought way harder about pc/imag

[sheepsaysmeep]

Idk

I lean drew for being very scummy to me except I find Dunn not at all towny which bugs me and made me uncomfortable about voting drew

But I guess there’s no reason it’s better to lim a seer claim than non

[sheepsaysmeep]

Dunn is there anything that u think associativeky makes pc or imag more/less likely to be paired with drew? What do u think of me thinking it seems like drew/imag

[sheepsaysmeep]

I would have been willing to vote for Drew if Sheep agreed right away. I'd say I was about 70%. My wariness is that I simply proposed it instead of outright voting for Drew. Sheep's reaction being so noncommittal is making me nervous. I could see them voting all 4 other players right now with what they are posting, and I'm not sure just questioning me is really trying to figure things out

I think this is kinda goofy

[sheepsaysmeep]

My first thought is that if I was mafia I would just be like ya let’s kill drew and then win the game

Idk

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think “questioning me isn’t really trying to figure things out” is rly valid and maybe makes me like u rather than scumread u from this

It’s just like, I am on a trip and the most “figuring this out” I can do is ask some questions, frustratingly

I’d like to be reading but I have like a couple minutes a day

[sheepsaysmeep]

VOTE: dunn

[sheepsaysmeep]

Gg wp