Micro 611: House of Cards Season 1 [GAME OVER]

[Expedience]

Why the keyboard spam Anti?

[Expedience]

Hmm actually
VOTE: SirCakez
Why vote Bella so early?

[Expedience]

i don't think shos is faking the reaction, for what it's worth

I agree, I had the same reaction as shos at first but I just didn't post it. Then I realized that it doesn't matter very much.

[Expedience]

i don't think shos is faking the reaction, for what it's worth

and that's not much, if that's the level of depth you have to bring to the table here.

superficially

"taking time" is an easy position to have and an easy position to defend because you can back it up with the accepted dogma that taking more time makes lynches better. and it's [partially, but not always] true.

we're not talking about a lynch here, though.

we're talking about a [minor] alteration to the mechanics. i say [minor] because it's public, not to mention it's day 1 (point is that there are future days, it's not endgame). a truely "random" choice of whip would give heavy odds it would land on town (7/9). yeahyeahyeah, nothing is really "random" but it's close enough to safely say that a quickhammered whip would probably be town. so there's that.

BUT

even if scum were to get the mechanic, there's not much of a detriment. yes, there is the double voting functionality with the hated (which i fully intend to use this as, bee tee dubs). but just like plain ol' regular votes, scum would have to answer for that in the proceeding days. the loved thing is fucking wash completely. scum making their partner loved would very likely not save the partner (if someone's that widely scumread, what's one more vote?) making it practically a suicidal move for the whip.

so if you give it a little thought, it's hardly something to get your panties in a bunch over.

"mild annoyance" would PROBABLY be more appropriate for those who didn't really think it through, but shos sure did lay it on thick. the position looks manufactured to me. it's one that's easy to defend with a seemingly pro-town pretext. but it's not a good one. not to mention he took the opportunity to throw a little shitty shade while he was at it.

This is also pretty legit?

VOTE: Annadog40

[Expedience]

I will NEVER vote shos, ever.

[Expedience]

Not voting Shos because Anna is scummier.

what's the meta read based on?

My other games.

Do you have reads?

[Expedience]

today i say to you that the challenges we face are real
they are serious
and they are many

they will not be met easily or in a short span of time
but know this, america - THEY WILL BE MET

on this day
we gather because we have chose
hope over fear
unity of purpose over conflict and discord

on this day
we come to proclaim
an end to the petty sniping, false premises, and flat-out stupid bullshit that for far too long have strangled our scumhunting

vote for a scum free tomorrow

vote for the hero we deserve

VOTE: antihero

VOTE: sircakez

haha

mwhahahh
hahahdshafhahhahaa
sjdalk;dsajflije;wajomwe8jfp3j93f4333333a8jjpfaiemvc

WHAT
why did you guys do this so quickly?! wtf?!

OH NOES
HERE COMEZ THE FAEK RAEG
FD;LKSAFJDSFJKDSA;LKFJDSA;LS;FJASLKDFA

VOTE: shos

These
I think Anti is usually more restrained as scum? Not 100% on that meta.

I feel like if he's scum then he's making deliberate attempts to come across as unrestrained, and at times that goes too far and in strange directions.

Still not sure about that yet. Voting antihero feels right but I don't wanna

[Expedience]

Election Votes 1.1

Antihero (Elected): chilledtea, SirCakez, Antihero, Maxous, Bellaphant
Anndog40 (E-4): Annadog40
Copper223 (E-4): Copper223

Not Voting: Expedience, shos

With 9 Alive, It takes 5 To Elect a Whip.
Election Ends In (expired on 2016-05-18 13:00:00)[/b]

Election is Over, Antihero is the Whip

WHAT
why did you guys do this so quickly?! wtf?!

I think this is genuine

(which in fact was really rather a thinking out loud than an accusation)

when did this douchebaggish argument take off and how?

"here i said this thing but you cant call me scum for it because i just said it in passing / was thinking out loud / had low blood sugar / farted too hard and my brain fell out"

now you want to double back on analysing a reaction now that you know your original argument didnt have a leg to stand on?

nice try

And this is, like, not a thing.

I think shos believes that antihero is scum, 95 also feels really town.

[Expedience]

Also if Anti was scum I feel like he would have whipped Shos to Hated. He probably could have gotten away with it.

If anti was town, I feel like he would have made some grumbly sarcastic comment and moved on.

Actually yeah, I decided, this is bs. I used to always do stuff like that but he was just vaguely condescending and didn't try to call me scum for it, didn't make those yelling, reachy posts that don't belong.

VOTE: Antihero

[Expedience]

I think SC is scummy here, he made a comment that he was scum-reading shos but since has given basically no justification for it.
Even his solid town-read on Antihero was flaky.

r u srs
I justified the Shos comment and the townread on Anti, please do tell how those were flaky.

His initial argument was that it matters a lot whether we elect town or scum as the whip.

I don't see how it was realistic to expect us to come to a good conclusion on day 1 regarding this anyways. I feel like we might have randomly selected someone to be the whip, and I don't really see any problem with it.

Shos's reaction was opposite. He was upset about it and that itself isn't really indicative of anything. What is indicative is that shos was pushed by anti - for this particular reason. And shos gave a very weak reasoning for an omgus vote. That bella is anti's partner and that anti has to be scum for him to be elected.

It looks more like he manufactured this reasoning than naturally reaching this conclusion.

I can see that
VOTE: Shos

I don't think being elected as the whip is a good reason to see someone as scummy on day one.

THIS IS SO SCUMMY
HOW CAN ANYONE TOWNREAD THIS

I don't think anyone was townreading Annadog?

I agree though, sort of.

[Expedience]

I played a couple of games before, meta is not great. I don't know antihero well but it feels wrong. Just his push feels shortsighted and overexaggerated.

[Expedience]

copper223 - town
Annadog40 - scum
shos - town
Bellaphant - null
chilledtea - town
Antihero - scum
SirCakez - null
Maxous - null

Roughly what I think.

[Expedience]

Expedience might be scum buddying shos.

I mean, of course. Anyone with a scumread could be "scum trying to mislynch". Is there anything I've done which actually makes you consider this possibility, or are you just giving meaningless statements to cast doubt?

[Expedience]

I liked her intro post as well, but the fact she came in and voted for you after I asked her if we should get her out of this game (especially assuming I'm talking to town_shos here) pinged me, it makes her disinterest (which has been the main read I've gotten from her play today) seem less genuine.

I agree, too add to this it feels like she's being abrupt on purpose?

[Expedience]

Also if Anti was scum I feel like he would have whipped Shos to Hated. He probably could have gotten away with it.

If anti was town, I feel like he would have made some grumbly sarcastic comment and moved on.

Actually yeah, I decided, this is bs. I used to always do stuff like that but he was just vaguely condescending and didn't try to call me scum for it, didn't make those yelling, reachy posts that don't belong.

VOTE: Antihero

ok, so my first impression is "newb who doesn't know me." which is null. but there's a problem w/ that.

If anti was town, I feel like he would have made some grumbly sarcastic comment and moved on.

he made a really, really, really, SUPER specific prediction about what i WOULD do. now i'd really like to hear what that's based on b/c he claims to not really know me.

Based on baseless speculation, maybe

[Expedience]

really you think so?
why is that?

She is indirectly calling herself town.

Would everyone say they're town?

This is very likely scum. Don't criticize me for my vote movements please.

VOTE: Annadog

[Expedience]

Also if Anti was scum I feel like he would have whipped Shos to Hated. He probably could have gotten away with it.

If anti was town, I feel like he would have made some grumbly sarcastic comment and moved on.

Actually yeah, I decided, this is bs. I used to always do stuff like that but he was just vaguely condescending and didn't try to call me scum for it, didn't make those yelling, reachy posts that don't belong.

VOTE: Antihero

ok, so my first impression is "newb who doesn't know me." which is null. but there's a problem w/ that.

If anti was town, I feel like he would have made some grumbly sarcastic comment and moved on.

he made a really, really, really, SUPER specific prediction about what i WOULD do. now i'd really like to hear what that's based on b/c he claims to not really know me.

He's talking away from me and wouldn't he be aware of how well I know him based on how well he knows me?

[Expedience]

Day actually ends in 4 days huh. I didn't think we wasted that much time tbh.

I am not getting anna's play. If she is scum you would think she would put more effort into this game so that she wouldn't get lynched. On the flip side, if she was town, she wouldn't or rather, shouldn't be coasting without any content which she is doing at the moment.

Not really, I think some people lurk under pressure as scum.

Expedience doesn't look good this game, I am fine with his lynch as well. Actually

VOTE : Expedience

With what little info there is in this game, exp looks like the best lynch.

Why do you think that?

[Expedience]

If I vote someone who is less likely to get lynched, I do not understand why anyone, other than that person would come and try to derail the possible conversation that might take place because of the vote.

In the way you've framed it, I can understand why someone would derail a conversation. Can't you?

Bigger picture, I don't think you're scum though.

[Expedience]

Kinda, I've seen people leave for a while for null reasons.

If my lynch is set, please look at who is voting me. I'm sure that some scum are on my wagon.

I feel like this is fake and cold.

The whole of Anna's play has felt really absent. I know apathy doesn't have to be scummy but I think it is in this case, just the way that she comes online just to post a single vaguely scummy quip like 197, and then leaves.

My gut is telling me there is scum inside of Chilled/Expe. Anna needs to go though, but I'll be looking into those two tomorrow.

Can you try and explain why? I'm not going to perforate your "TvS" thing again but what posts don't you like?

[Expedience]

I just think town wouldn't be so quick to give up. She hasn't even tried to fight her lynch at all.

Don't really place much stock into the fake hammer thing. I think the best move is to lynch Anna.

[Expedience]

You sound very sure about that.

I don't think she will flip town.

I think you're just distancing yourself from a wagon that you originally started at a point where such a distinction only matters for appearances, especially if Anna flips town, which I acknowledge is a possibility. In any case it is beyond the point where any other choice on who we lynch would've mattered.

Let's just lynch Anna.

[Expedience]

My current scum reads are Sir Cakes and Beeboy/Expedience.

I would like to hear, especially from these three, who their choices for the whip should be.

Copper or you because I'm townreading you both.

VOTE: copper223

[Expedience]

I'd elect Bella, if you elect me I'm hating one of Chilled, Shos or Cakez.

nvm, I don't support this.

UNVOTE: copper223

Oh, also I'm townreading shos.

[Expedience]

Expe/Bella/copper is my scum pool in that order.
I'd elect Beeboy, Shos or chilled.

Why are you scumreading copper?

Bella, explain what you mean by wifom in the kill.

Like, maxous was obv!town but If i'm scum and and shos is town i'm killing shos. Eh, I'd momentarily forgetton anti had replaced out. IDEK, it just seemed a little strange to me. Prolly nothing.

I still don't understand what you mean, how is it even wifom?

[Expedience]

VOTE: shos

[Expedience]

I want to lynch beeboy.

[Expedience]

Expedience, I want to know what you think of bella.

I don't know.

She hasn't really done anything.

I feel like the "the wifom in that kill" comment was realistically null, and that she is sweeping under the rug something that was an actual thing she meant regardless of her alignment.

[Expedience]

Yeah Expe is a pretty solid scum read for me now as well.
VOTE: Shos
I just want the election over.

Wait a second, what is this shocking development?!

"now"? Are you implying that you somehow drew a scumread from that dejected, lonely nullpost above?

[Expedience]

I am waiting for Bella to clear up a few points before I decide if I want to vote her.

@Cakez
You have a scumread on expe. but you are voting Shos, who is his most likely partner, and you motivate it by saying you just want the election to be over.

Why aren't you concerned with giving scum expe's team a double voting power and the possibility of a derp hammer which would set up lylo nicely for them, in many cases?

I think this is a ridiculous reach for what it's worth.

[Expedience]

SirCakez, what is the "now" referring to then? If sounds like you are claiming a strengthened read when all I made is one post.

[Expedience]

@Chilled
Excluding yourself (whom I would place second) I see Bella as possible but not very likely, beeboy I really don't think so given expe. seems to be pressing for his lynch and empowering shos to go through with the hated on him, cakez would be weird because of the way expe bashed his Anna comments after the fake hammer yesterday.

To be clear I still think expe. is more likely town here although that read is not as strong as it was at the start of the game, unless shos flips scum, then I'd probably take a hard look at him again.

Regarding Bella's WIFOM, I did not like it, I was going to vote for her to be whip but that made little sense and made me pause.

I don't like how you criticize Cakez for not scumreading Shos alongside me when you aren't doing so yourself.

It is not a reasonable expectation for you to have of Cakez to go through that contrived thought process. At the heart of it you are saying that he can't scumread me without scumreading shos, which is just wrong and overly simplistic.

Maybe in this moment I have at last grasped the true meaning of "TvS".

[Expedience]

brb

[Expedience]

SirCakez, what is the "now" referring to then? If sounds like you are claiming a strengthened read when all I made is one post.

Yes the one post strengthened my scumread.

Yeah Expe is a pretty solid scum read for me now as well.
VOTE: Shos
I just want the election over.

Wait a second, what is this shocking development?!

"now"? Are you implying that you somehow drew a scumread from that dejected, lonely nullpost above?

Not just the nullpost.

Oh, you thought "nullpost" as in "post discussing a null read" rather than "post which is null".

[Expedience]

Hello Shannon!
I'm wary after your domination in aforementioned Newbie game but I thought Beeboy was town so hopefully we are town together.

I was going to townread her but yeah, I just looked at that game and she had a lot of posts. I might have to actually evaluate all the spam now...

[Expedience]

I can't see what the scum motivation would be in moving off a lynch of Anna, I mean, pretty well everyone was happy to push Anna even after she faux-flipped, so it's not like Cakez would particularly be in the firing line for lynching a townie. And it's not like anyone is town reading him for attempting to nobly save the poor mislynched Anna. So for ScumCakez, there's no benefit in changing mind like that - and it could even be detrimental, because now we're all talking about it

The idea would be that SirCakez didn't want to appear implicated with the lynch, so he was in a superficially "better" position at the start of the next day.

And even if nobody's townreading him "for attempting to nobly save the poor mislynched Anna", couldn't he be scum who thought that it would?

I'm not trying to convince you of what I'm saying, or even convince myself. I'm just interested what your opinion is.

[Expedience]

Regarding Max, I think some of his earlier posts are pretty weak - especially the convo with Bella that went from 6, 12,17. It feels like Max made a pretty weak claim to be able to read Bella, and then abandoned it as soon as Bella asked when they'd played together before. Like maybe it wasn't a genuine claim to start with? Bella calls him out in 73, and then Max gives a vague response and tries to deflect by referring back to CT.

There's another weird post about Copper. In 57 Max says he's voting Copper for being too cautious, which seems quite weak itself (especially when other people are being called out for active, overt scumminess), but then he doesn't really answer Copper's follow up on it and I think he tries to deflect again.

@Max

Yo, nice playing with you people.

VOTE: copper

Anti or Expedience are choices I am also ok with.

This is the only post I made before your vote, what do you find overly cautious about it?

i just felt it was rather stoic.
Anyway you ignoring the shos-antihero thing for a reason?

I don't see any scum hunting from this slot, only wishy-washy agreement and disagreement with others. He could be weak town but I feel like all the deflection is scummy. I guess null-scum for now? That puts Max, Shos, and CT at the scummier end of the spectrum for me.

Maxous was killed and flipped town...

I'm going to take this as a townslip for now.

Can you do a post thing about copper if you weren't going to do that anyway?

[Expedience]

Copper are you saying that Cakez is scum, or what? You aren't being very clear on who your scumreads are.

I am scumreading you, copper, and Mr. 223.

[Expedience]

That's completely coincidental and you know it is.

It's because of your accusation of cakez, I have decided that cakez is town and you are scum, this is how it will be. You know this because of what I said a few days ago about it.

The way that question is ridiculously loaded makes me scumread you more.

[Expedience]

@Shannon
Nice playing with you.

Please check out my interaction today with Cakez while we are discussing the whip, I also had a townread on him early D1 but I am not so sure anymore and it seems your read also relies a lot on your initial impressions.

This is an attempt to test the waters before he moved to me.

He kept his options open and only committed to scumreading me and shos after shannon, I, (and others?) said we were townreading cakez. I know I'm going to get this reversed back onto me so I'll try to explain my perspective. I thought cakez was vaguely scummy, I was literally figuratively floating at this point, like man, I had no idea what was going on. I actually read copper's post and I thought it was a scumpost. Then I remembered some age-old advice handed down to me from my grandfather on his deathbed: "if something feels town just take it at face value occams razor etc". So that's why I'm townreading cakez for posting about his dream that anna flipped town and shannon for not knowing that maxous was killed.

Evidence for copper's opportunism is how it was never about how cakez begun to look more town or anything, he just flipped perspectives and accuses me as though I'm town buddying cakez or something. He has waited until now to give a clear opinion after he ascertained through hypotheticals that shos and I could be scum together.

I don't think he even has any independent read on shos consistent with this.

A lot of the questions he was asking had no fair answers.

I think his accusation of cakez was scummy, because he was suggesting that Cakez was scum in such an indirect way, and now it wasn't even real at all. Absolutely ripping into him for a pseudo-contradiction that can be easily seen when you know everything, like how if you glimpse the unity of god for a moment everything just gets put into perspective. Like "these two townies trust eachother how can you scumread one and not the other"

VOTE: copper

Also why are you townreading Bellaphant, that is the person who seems the most likely to be scum with you and you both have empty townreads on each other.

Looking back on this post it's not very coherent, but I do feel more confident about this than anything in this game so far (not that that's saying much).

[Expedience]

^^Wow, that is a really big difference between Bella's plays! Although if she's aware of that herself, she could be using it to her own advantage. I don't feel like I've seen many posts from her.

With two of you on Expe I'm going to have to go back and re-read everything again tomorrow, I have a feeling that a lot is going over my head. So Expe is now at L-2, and if he was hated it would be L-1, right? And one vote on Cakez. And no one is officially hated yet.

@Expe do you think Copper or CT's votes are directly connected with your town read on Cakez, as part of some larger scum plan by one/both of them? Or do you think that they're genuine-but-wrong?

I don't think there is any scum plan, I think SirCakez is town, chilledtea is town, and copper is scum.

[Expedience]

I am waiting for Bella to clear up a few points before I decide if I want to vote her.

@Cakez
You have a scumread on expe. but you are voting Shos, who is his most likely partner, and you motivate it by saying you just want the election to be over.

Why aren't you concerned with giving scum expe's team a double voting power and the possibility of a derp hammer which would set up lylo nicely for them, in many cases?

This post is an unfair question and shows agenda. The answer to the question tells copper nothing useful because cakez obviously doesn't think shos and I are scum together. It just makes Cakez look bad.

The second separation is trying to force a really shitty narrative.

[Expedience]

Chilledtea, good catch, but that makes it null rather than a towntell because shannon made that mistake as either alignment. I seriously don't expect a newbie to fake that.

[Expedience]

Actually no, you're more right because of the third post.

It's still not entirely clear because she could've forgotten who was killed. I didn't like her most recent post either tbh, with the part assuming copper's statement about meta was accurate.

[Expedience]

This post is an unfair question and shows agenda. The answer to the question tells copper nothing useful because cakez obviously doesn't think shos and I are scum together. It just makes Cakez look bad.

The second separation is trying to force a really shitty narrative.

False, him answering that he doesn't think expe. shos is likely (as he indirectly did by asking me why I thought they were) moves to conversation to why he doesn't think that's the case, the second part is me giving him my logic for why it's possible and expecting him to come up with why he doesn't think that's the case.

@Chilled
Why is that scummy?

I mean, you could say the same thing about asking people "why are you obvious scum?" and then they redirect the conversation to why you're reading them that way, when all you wanted to do is throw shade at them. Cakez was the one with constructive intentions, you were just rhetoricing.

[Expedience]

^^Wow, that is a really big difference between Bella's plays! Although if she's aware of that herself, she could be using it to her own advantage. I don't feel like I've seen many posts from her.

With two of you on Expe I'm going to have to go back and re-read everything again tomorrow, I have a feeling that a lot is going over my head. So Expe is now at L-2, and if he was hated it would be L-1, right? And one vote on Cakez. And no one is officially hated yet.

@Expe do you think Copper or CT's votes are directly connected with your town read on Cakez, as part of some larger scum plan by one/both of them? Or do you think that they're genuine-but-wrong?

I don't think there is any scum plan, I think SirCakez is town, chilledtea is town, and copper is scum.

Why are you town reading CT, and scum reading Copper?

CT is very town to me because he is confident in a way that exudes town. Like shos mentioned, look at the way he is accusing you. He clearly believes in himself.

I already explained why I'm scumreading copper. This is probably the scummiest post he has made:

@Cakez
You have a scumread on expe. but you are voting Shos, who is his most likely partner, and you motivate it by saying you just want the election to be over.

Why aren't you concerned with giving scum expe's team a double voting power and the possibility of a derp hammer which would set up lylo nicely for them, in many cases?

Here gets ahead of himself, he was cautiously trying to throw shade onto Cakez with the pointless questions, but "and you motivate it by saying you just want the election to be over" shows his true intentions. He struggles to accuse Cakez "either you're scumreading expedience / shos (most likely two town members) or you're scum", in a way that only he is capable of conceiving of as scum.

Not that talkative right now, I can't really explain my feelings well and I'm distant. But I cannot see copper believing this.

[Expedience]

I can understand why CT is voting me for it, and it's actually quite clever of him to do so. He's one of my scum reads, but now I can't vote him without it looking like OMGUS.

I'm not sure how to interpret this.

[Expedience]

I have read and re-read and I agree somewhat with Copper, it

is

weird that Expe connects himself with Cakez. If Expe and Cakez aren't scum together, then it could be that ExpeScum is trying to associate himself closely with what he knows will be a town flip.

I am not sure about my read on Shos any more. I think today he has threatened me, Cakez, and now Copper with being made hated, which seems like town reaction testing, i.e. too scummy to be scum. In this game I don't see anyone as obviously town, so I'm not sure I can meet Shos's request for a town case on Copper. So FWIW I think that Copper's points against Expe have been fair, and in reading back his ISO I can see how his thoughts have progressed through the day. And I'd personally prefer to see someone made loved than hated, but YMMV.

I know CT now scum reads me, but I can see it's for a genuine reason - if one that's been blown wildly out of proportion. I feel like if he were scum, he'd have a bigger and more complicated case to make on me, just to really sink it in, so he's moving toward my town reads because he hasn't done that.

Bella ... I've got nothing on Bella. I almost think the team could be Bella and Expe, with Expe telling her to keep quiet in order to fit the meta that Copper has pointed out. I guess Expe and Cakez is a plausible team for the reasons Copper points out, but I still think Cakez is town.

I'm not connecting myself with Cakez, that's the scummy interpretation of my actions.

No more than I am connecting myself with shos, or chilledtea, they're just townreads. Cakez is a slight townread but I doubt he's scum if copper is.

Is chilledtea now a townread? Can you go into detail about that? That part bothers me, I don't see why scum would have a bigger or more complicated case on you.

[Expedience]

Expe, does your gut still say not to vote Shos under any circumstances?

Yes, it also says to vote you for backing off chilledtea and using WIFOM to vaguely townread him, when I don't think that is a natural response

VOTE: shannon

[Expedience]

I think copper might be town, I don't know for sure but I would rather lynch shannon.

Not for the maxous charade, just for that backing off on chilled tea.

[Expedience]

Copper and Expe cross voting could be a team trying to make sure their partner gets away, or could by TvS. I would lean more towards Expe as the scum, but I could see it could go either way - it could even be TvT and I would not be shocked.

I'm sure it could be anything, ever.

Hi Cephrir.

[Expedience]

Copper and Expe cross voting could be a team trying to make sure their partner gets away, or could by TvS. I would lean more towards Expe as the scum, but I could see it could go either way - it could even be TvT and I would not be shocked.

I'm sure it could be anything, ever.

Hi Cephrir.

Oh right, so being openly unsure and trying to look at people fairly is now scummy. I think there's *something* going on with CT and Copper, but I'm not sure what it is. I've got mixed feelings about both of them. If I'd kept getting stuck in to CT you would no doubt have accused me of tunnelling, or bussing, or whatever. If I'm going to be mislynched it's not going to be because of bullshit like this.

VOTE: Expedience

That's not why I voted you, it was just residue.

That said, this is an extremely town post and I am sorry I ever voted you.

UNVOTE: shannon (I am aware copper is L-1)

[Expedience]

This is part of why I keep mentioning copper being hated
This is unretractable pressure on him. The fact that he posted about this further suggests scum imo, as town would not need to stop, think and recalibrate how their responses to pressure look to others, which it seems copper is now very well aware of.

This is such a bad answer.

First you denied it was a reaction test and you were just talking to the mod, then after being presented with evidence to the opposite you are now claiming I'm more likely to be scum for noticing what you were doing.

This is pretty scummy on multiple levels, first off it hints at your "reaction test" being a likely catch-22, you took your sweet time to come up with an answer after the previous faux pas and it really doesn't make much sense (so I suspect you had a few ways to paint my reaction as scummy depending on how i reacted and this one was unexpected).

Second it is my (unfortunate) job in this game to try and figure out why you are doing what you are doing, questioning you about the meaning of the prodding and inferring that since it wasn't working to give you information you were after something else is not "pausing and re-calibrating" and I have a hard time believing someone would see it as such.

VOTE: shos

Shos' theatrics are nothing, I still cannot see where you're coming from.

You are the one who set up the catch-22 with the other question in the first place, he can't win if you already caught his contradiction.

That's so thin, anyone can see that shos isn't announcing it for that reason. It's just shitty nitpicking because he happened to give the wrong answer to one of your barrage of bait questions, maybe he doesn't know himself or forgot why. Probably he was trying to be transparent with his actions so it didn't just appear on the VC.

[Expedience]

ok so it's possible that expedience's post might not be entirely factually accurate but it very much makes me think expedience is town. however, i would like to see some cursory meta from him. expe, could you link some town and scum games?

i still think that was obvious-town antihero and will probably not support a lynch on that slot ever.

i think chilledtea is town. I just do, I guess.

i kind of think shos is town, but I've seen him this wild and nonsensical as all alignments so I think I just don't really understand him as a player. still a town lean.

that leaves sircakez and copper, both of whom are just sacks of null as far as i'm concerned. they write words and those words have no impact on me. i often find that to be a scum trait, but copper is like this for me basically always.

Town game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=66091
Scum game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=65049

[Expedience]

Then maybe I am and maybe I am not, if one of the players not voting wants me to I'll claim.

This is pretty disgusting.

I want to hammer

[Expedience]

I'm ok with Cephrir.

Fuck it, I'm Going To Do It - Giles Corey and copper will flip scum. This is going to be fine.

VOTE: copper

[Expedience]

Also he recalled all suspicion of me after I said he could be town and voted shannon BUT IT NO LONGER MATTERS

[Expedience]

Did I fuck up plwase no ;-;

[Expedience]

Tell me please if you're trolling

[Expedience]

Thanks man I feltreally shitty about that

[Expedience]

shannon, it just felt like the right thing to do *shrug*

[Expedience]

I think Cephrir is probably the last scum, but I don't want to jump to a decision until we talk about it tomorrow.

[Expedience]

I don't think it matters who is whip or whipped at this stage.

VOTE: shannon

[Expedience]

OK, so why do you guys think I'm scum

If it's because you think I'm a level zero player who doesn't know how to bus I'll be more than a little disappointed

This is thin, tell me all about how you would've expertly bussed copper if you were scum and why CT is definitely the last scum from more than just PoE.

I can find reasons to call CT or shannon scum, but like, there are more reasons to call them town. I would probably vote shannon over CT but I think it's just Cephrir.

[Expedience]

Here I am.

I think that Cephrir is scum and he has basically given up. I don't see the point in lynching anyone else if I would immediately vote Cephrir in lylo

[Expedience]

Ok let's lynch chilled, that was not the hammer by my count as Bella unvoted.

VOTE: Chilled

Like compare this (trying to switch wagon away from anna after fake hammer) to copper barely touching bellaphant and the obscure and probably invalid meta townread that he was probably keeping as a backup.

I would never bus, especially d1, in this setup as scum and I think copper expected the wagon to take off because it was actually a good point for anna being town.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Expedience

Vote me for whip I will auto L-1 Cephrir and remove stagnation.

[Expedience]

hate: Cephir

VOTE: Cephrir

[Expedience]

Actually you just hammered, I think.

[Expedience]

Exped you have to send a PM stating to make someone hated.

Okay, I didn't realize. I'm not going to hammer Cephrir right now.

One thing that concerns me a little about Expedience is that this game vs. Gumball has been night and day. I can potentially see copper telling him to just lay town the hammer and coast to victory.

Really? I actually don't know if you are saying I was more or less active. Because I kind of remember doing jack shit in that game. I can do more if you want, lately I don't really feel the same interest in playing mafia.

I still think your comment in 791 kinda might indicate a belief that I will not flip scum and I feel uneasy about it. If no one else fits a scum mold I may have to re examine the pass I've been giving you.

I'm going to try and look at the interactions between copper and shannon because that is actually a good point?

[Expedience]

VOTE: shos

97 is sketchy. Anti got the whip because he was the most popular player at the start of the game, what's your logic for saying that makes him more likely to be scum?

chainsawing Antihero.

Nothing of what Antihero is doing is something I haven't seen from him as town in other games, regardless of your alignment.

This is a shaky way to frame a read. He hasn't really been saying anything directly about Antihero up until this point to attack shos, this makes copper scum more than it does Antihero though.

If anti was town, I feel like he would have made some grumbly sarcastic comment and moved on.

Based on what meta? The last time we had a disagreement we argued for 3 days straight and he convinced me beyond a shade of a doubt he was scum (as town).

If they are scum he's hard defending him at this point and well, I have no clue what that's supposed to mean because wifom.

I think the still not giving a read on Antihero but trying to find reasons to suggest that he's town makes Antihero look bad.

@Chilled
This close to the deadline I think it's time to reach an agreement on the best lynch, your vanity wagon on expe. is doing the opposite, if you truly want him lynched start screaming about why you think he is scum.

One possible motive for that vote is promoting discussion between you and Expe. as you mentioned, I fail to see however how other players commenting on it would spoil it for you (if expe. ignores you it's still going to look bad for him), other less benign motives include not wanting to vote and take responsibility for what is likely going to be the lynch of the day and park your vote on someone that is not going to be lynched.

Ok let's lynch chilled, that was not the hammer by my count as Bella unvoted.

VOTE: Chilled

I think this makes chilledtea town, you can see the reasoning here to build up a push on chilledtea. If it was a bus I would expect copper not to initally supress his scumread on chilledtea and vote in an opportunistic way, he would vote when the waters are calm.

I'd elect Bella, if you elect me I'm hating one of Chilled, Shos or Cakez.

He keeps up a narrative throughout the game of Bellaphant being easy to read through meta, etc. and is therefore town.

I think it could be confirmation bias rather than keeping that in the back of your mind as a reserve if someone asks for your read on your partner though.

Copper really you have nothing to say regarding what I have just produced?

Like if shannon is scum then this looks really bad on copper because of his previous meta defence of antihero's slot + his silence on this.

This is a good point probably.

CT's case on Shannon is not half bad and I'm happy to test my town reads, but Shannon has shown multiple signs of skimming the thread and not reading the finer print which makes her claim about derping more likely (could also be because she is not often directly engaged in a conversation) like what she just asked expe. about why he was scum reading me and not CT (when it's plain to see why from the post history), also from my position it's pretty obvious she can't be scum but it makes sense to suspect her and I agree that the timing of CT's switch is also likely AI, so they are very likely both town.

This is a pattern, like his defense of antihero earlier.

CT's case on Shannon is not half bad and I'm happy to test my town reads

Especially this part I don't like at all.

I was thinking that Expe might be scum but now I kind of think his thing with Copper is TvT because (I think I said earlier) I think Copper's thought process is genuine ... but Expe seems really confident in his replies. Expe could be bluffing, Copper could be bluffing, IDK!

This is ew. Shannon seems to be focusing on things other then copper while copper is getting lynched. Although I haven't seen everything yet, this game is pretty dense and copper's posts are difficult to parse.

I will probably do more thinking later, but in conclusion (not a coherent post) I became more sure that chilledtea was town, and began to consider that it could be shannon. Cephrir's AtE got to me I guess...

[Expedience]

I think expe has backed off Ceph. Note that when I was being considered for whip, I wanted to make someone loved. Expo said he wanted to make CEOs hated, and the general feel was that someone would immediately vote and win. i voted ceph before expe could make him hated (expo apparently not realising that he needed to message the mod) and then after that, expe decided to hold off. Cakes now has a town read on ceph so I think he is off the table today

the general feel was that someone would immediately vote and win

Cakes now has a town read on ceph so I think he is off the table today

But what about what you think? Didn't you vote Cephrir thinking that he would flip scum??

I could maybe potentially go CT lynch and if that townflips lynch Expe?

Uh..

[Expedience]

Problem is that confirmed townie is basically too powerful and has the ability to even convince others without a case.

If cakes decides that I am scum, then unless I convince him that I am town, I am getting lynched and you guys will have to figure out the game in LYLO.

At present my scum reads are ceph and exped and ceph has shown some genuineness and exped hammered copper.

Exp, just tell me in a summary why you hammered copper?

I wanted to see the flip, and I was worried that some of copper's posts (after the one where he made the ambiguous non-claim) were making me doubt my read on him, and I would shift back to shannon again.

[Expedience]

^^ I voted Ceph knowing that it was just one vote and not a lynch. If you'd hammered, I would have added that to my arsenal if I made it to LYLO. You didn't hammer, so I proceeded to chat with Ceph. It also gave us more info, namely, that you felt comfortable enough to go AWOL for two days. And also that you haven't whipped anyone yet, that we know of.

Did you expect Cephrir to flip scum if he was lynched?

Inactivity is null.

[Expedience]

Oh wow, so is that like, a scum hammering scum situation?

Or is Expe really town and really thinks Copper is scum? Or is it Town on Town?

Expe I can't believe you hammered without giving intent!

This is shannon's reaction to lynching copper.

I don't really see this as scummy or not, I'm just not sure what the first part means, shannon can you explain what made you post the first part?

[Expedience]

Would like Expe/Shannon's thoughts here
This looks like a TvS to me ftr

"-"

It's not chilledtea, like why would they bus, neither copper nor chilledtea was getting lynched anyway. Copper was pushing chilledtea the entire game. Cephrir your post makes semi-sense. I think I keep avoiding this game because I don't have a strong gut feeling which is scum and it bothers me.

[Expedience]

Copper if you are town just tell us your thoughts please.

(after copper got shanked)

Ok I feel more secure in my read. Pointing out shannon mistaking maxous' death was also quite town.

[Expedience]

Honestly Cephrir's d3 posts (that is, his posts) look scummiest to me but I want to look at earlier times, there should be enough information to work it out.

[Expedience]

Yep, every one thought copper was scum, and I thought you were scum. When I saw the hammer my first thought was that you had hammered to try to distance yourself from copper.

The second part is me trying to sound confused so that if I was right, you wouldn't necessarily be on to me enough to NK me.

Oh so if you're scum it's actually trying to chain lynches using knowledge of copper's alignment.

And are you actually saying that you didn't know if Cephrir was scum and you put him to L-1 so that if I hammered then you could use it as evidence against me tomorrow. That seems like... transparently not a town way of looking at things.

[Expedience]

she's not scum.

See, this is what bothers me if you're town then your absolute conviction that shannon is town is maybe wrong because I have similarly absolute conviction that chilledtea is town and I don't want to go there.

So are you town and shannon is just making these weird posts or what. And it is important what I think because I have the whip and cakez might lynch me tomorrow if I get this wrong.

[Expedience]

Oh wow, so is that like, a scum hammering scum situation?

I struggle to see how you come to this conclusion if you are townreading copper.

VOTE: shannon (feels right sorry chilledtea lol)

[Expedience]

Ugh managed to write inside the quote and destroy it, hope you make sense of it.

Copper if you are town just tell us your thoughts please.

(after copper got shanked)

Ok I feel more secure in my read. Pointing out shannon mistaking maxous' death was also quite town.

Agree that this was a town move from CT. I scum read him for the attack at the time, but a while ago I re-read him in a town frame of mind to see whether it made sense as a whole and it did. So yeah, CT is town for me.

I think you are scum Expe. The only way I'm voting someone else at this point is if I'm in LYLO with them

Yep, every one thought copper was scum, and I thought you were scum. When I saw the hammer my first thought was that you had hammered to try to distance yourself from copper.

The second part is me trying to sound confused so that if I was right, you wouldn't necessarily be on to me enough to NK me.

Oh so if you're scum it's actually trying to chain lynches using knowledge of copper's alignment.

And are you actually saying that you didn't know if Cephrir was scum and you put him to L-1 so that if I hammered then you could use it as evidence against me tomorrow. That seems like... transparently not a town way of looking at things.

I'm not scum, and I'm not trying to chain lynches - I already thought you were scum before you hammered, and I had slight leanings on Copper - not enough to hammer him without a good case, but slight leanings. After you hammered and he flipped the whole thing crystalised in my mind. I had hoped that if you hammered Ceph and NKed me, it would be enough for Cakez and CT to put it all together, especially if I got time to comment after you hammered. But you didn't. Despite saying you were going to hate Ceph, you backed off and have now voted me, without saying whether or not you made me hated. Scummy as.

I don't want to say I'm certain about you, but I'm as sure as I can be without seeing your flip. We've been through the OMGUS thing before and you backed down and I unvoted you. Not this time.

VOTE: Expedience

Come out and tell me whether you've made me hated

Really I do not think you had this in mind all along.

You didn't seem to scumread me that much. I don't believe you, you're implying you had some kind of secret plan to get evidence against me ever since you voted Cephrir. And you are only telling us this now because ??? I voted you

Obviously I didn't hate you silently. Admit that you are lying (to us and maybe yourself) about all of this "i hoped you nked me" when you obv weren't pushing me hardly at all.

[Expedience]

I am almost certain that Ceph is the scum. I would put ct and expe each at like 80% town.

Like k sure you believed that.

[Expedience]

Shannon has done so many scummy things, but cakez and ceph think that she is obvtown.

So yeah, I have practically stopped reading her.

Cakez knows me based on modding my only scum game, and if you read that game it's pretty easy to spot the differences (says she who doesn't ISO anyone). I will detail them for you if you want, but if you read it you'll see. It's my last completed game. I think it was D2 I started a wagon on one of my constant town reads and after he was lynched he apologised to town for playing letting us down, and kept me in his top town reads. So without trying to sound like a jerk, If I were scum I'd be doing a better job than this. The 'scummy things' you see are me making mistakes that come from not having perfect knowledge of the game, not from actual scumminess. If I were scum, I'd have counter-claimed Cakez and you'd have believed it.

cakez can you tell me if this singular post completely out of context of this game is town or not, based on your experience with the other game shannon played. Like would she be so bold as to insistently selfmeta as scum. I will adhere to your decision I want no further responsibility for this

[Expedience]

Replying to all Expe's posts in one go.

Is it unusual to keep a read to yourself when you're trying to work out whether it's right, and to avoid being NKed for really pushing it? Or to post things to get reactions? I don't think it is. Maybe I'm not very good at it yet, because I am only learning, but I think it's a realistic strategy.

I'm sharing my read on you now because 1) I might not make it to tomorrow and I want Cakez to be able to lynch you if I am NKed, 2) you've voted me (contradicting what you'd said you'd do) and given that you're the whip that puts me on the chopping block, 3) I thought the time wasn't right earlier.

I will let Cakez answer whether my scum game is different from my town one, but you can read it yourself if you want to. I would also ask everyone to consider what purpose a 'scum me' push on Expe today makes. Before I pushed, everyone was pretty much willing to lynch Ceph, and most importantly, Cakez thought a Ceph + CT lynch would win the game. For 'scum me', with a town read by Ceph and Cakez, that's a win. That's why I decided to speak up, because I strongly suspect that this voting strategy will result in a town loss. I strongly believe Expe is scum, he has been really clever about it and about how he and Copper have worked together and set things up, but he's the one.

Yes it's extremely odd and I don't believe you at all. You're obviously lying about scumreading me before... Pretending to townread me when there's only one scum left alive that's such bs lol.

I feel like I'm playing this so badly.

Cakez it's your call you're the more experienced player and our confirmed townie

[Expedience]

I feel like I should just lynch Cephrir.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Cephrir

You just got hammered.

I am mentioning now that it is optimal play here for Cephrir to pretend to be town regardless of his true alignment, because he doesn't know whether or not I actually hated him.

If he flips scum, the game ends and that's nice. If he flips town, I'm aware that this could look like I knew he would flip town, but I really don't. I'm just saying this to make sure other people interpret any reaction I might have to his reaction correctly.

During the site downtime I have decided that I am willing to bet the game that 902 is town. And Cephrir still looks like surivalistic scum dribbling appeal to emotion.

[Expedience]

Sry for making the wrong choice Cakez idfk what you want

I think it has to be chilledtea.

[Expedience]

If we NL then cakez will just die probably. We already know that he's town so I don't see how that would help us.

[Expedience]

Realizing that shannon was probably town and that I was clearing you stupidly.

Who do you think is scum?

[Expedience]

They attacked me likely
Expe you have 48 hours to convince me your quickhammer on Ceph was from town before I vote your ass out

Dear Sir Cakez,

If I'm scum then what is my trajectory, where is my scum role pm?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

If I was scum then I would have half as many posts probably and I would be even more disengaged. Like, I'm clearly incapable of feigning my indecision and development of my reads this convincingly. If I was scum then I would just be tunneling one person half-heartedly with short periods of fake enthusiasm which take an emotional toll on me.

You gave an extra vote to an impatient child and I'm not sure what you expected. I wanted Cephrir to be scum so the game ended, but he was town.

Now I will go on to highlight the awkward interactions between chilledtea and copper using the power of hindsight.

Yours in ;-;,
Expedience

[Expedience]

@Chilled
Why are you so much less engaged in this game compared to the newbie I replaced into?

This is actually a very good question.

There are several reasons for this :

1) Before the site went down, my internet had issues. Because of which I couldn't post for a day and half.

2) Then the site went down.

3) Regardless of these reasons, I find myself more and more apathetic on day 1 for some reason that I don't know myself. The game I played with anti is one of the only one I know that I played enthusiastically from the start. And even there I was bored during rvs and a bit after that.

In that newbie game you replaced into, I replaced into on day 2.

Anyway, I will try to put more effort into this.

Overly eager (especially bolded section) to interact with copper and it generally feels like copper goes out of his way to question chilledtea. Copper has resolved to distance from chilledtea from a very early stage and switches to a full bus after chilledtea accidentally quickhammers.

Shos's reaction doesn't feel like scum reaction.

Copper feels town. Exp is null-ish.

I want to see anti respond to exp.

Nah don't think anti has given up. Might have taken a small break from this game.

Copper what do you think regarding shos's reaction to L-1?

Continuing to scumhunt a claimed townread as if to keep up the back-and-forth.

He chose copper out of all possible players to ask a relatively meanignless question. If he actually meant to townintend to "get copper's viewpoint to improve his own", that's actually even worse because the question is useless.

Copper, the reason why other people interfering hurts is it puts me on the defensive instead of attacking and I lose my focus. I didn't expect that response from shos and max.

Anyways, I think we should lynch anna because anna is the only compromise I agree with. When I said I think exp is the best lynch, I was thinking more along the lines of if anna is town exp could be scum. I wanted to see how he would react to it, he is town reading me as well.

Anna sheeping me was bad btw and I think I've already said as much. I would have liked some more input from antihero though. Oh well.

UNVOTE: Expedience

VOTE : annadog40

This in context is jumpy and you can clearly see the preflip knowledge he is setting up to frame me with Anna (and he opens with a vote on me tomorrow).

Logic doesn't make sense either, he's just waffling.

I remember acknowledging this but wanting to ignore it earlier because I just couldn't townread anyone.

This is a very specific question and I am not sure about this, but it was probably because of me looking at possible associations - I went back and looked at mod's latest post and realized that two more people voted anna when she was L-2, and thought she got lynched.

One possibility is that your buddy told you you had hammered and that was a panic reaction post, I can't escape the feeling it was made in preparation of an Anna town flip.

I see thought that some of you don't agree with me on chilled, if we don't reach a consensus the way to go is Anna, maybe I'm just overestimating my fake hammer brainchild.

That is a very strange suspicion, that's all I will say. Not much I can do to rid you of that paranoia other than say that it is a very strict set of circumstance that you are assuming without much proof.

He can't think of anything to say, and since there's no real motive to think up a good answer because they both already know each other's alignments, he just gives this extremely weird & concilatory response and nobody really notices.

305 is a blatant scumpost and you can see that it's forced as fuck.

[Expedience]

Because I thought he was town ;-;

[Expedience]

Expe weren't you pushing Shannon as scum yesterday?

Yes, I was.

I think she lied about her read because she wanted to remain consistent. I don't see scum motivation for it ultimately, and her response to my probing was indignant and town. My feelings of town on chilledtea have faded through his lack of presence and intent to solve the game. It's a trait that I've noticed in myself too as scum, I basically lose focus and stop trying to look town in the endgame because I just want it to be over. That's part of why I hammered Cephrir, 942 pushed me

over the edge

.

You can also consider how it makes no sense for me to call chilledtea town yesterday if I was scum, since most other people didn't really think he was town. I could've taken much easier paths to a win here if I was scum.

I also specifically remember thinking at one stage yesterday (while I was thinking that one of shannon or Cephrir were scum) that if I lynched Cephrir and he flipped town then if shannon was scum she would kill chilledtea, because she wasn't considering the possibility that scum would attack you. If only I can find that post. So the lack of NK points to chilledtea as well. I'm not going to pretend that that influenced my opinion though, because I think I had it worked out after Cephrir's flip (I read your post saying to lynch me tomorrow and I was all like "fuk its ct").

[Expedience]

If I am NKed please look at Expe closely tomorrow.


VOTE: Chilled Tea

Yeah, this. And I'm sure it happened before, she made the assumption that one of the VTs would die.

[Expedience]

And I could've done that without making myself look inconsistent and terrible?

ofc because why would he kill himself

[Expedience]

You're right, I did assume that one of us would be NKed. I don't get why scum would bring us to MYLO? (Did anyone else think that was likely?)

If we are wrong about Cakez having been hit, does that have any implication if we don't kill today? It just means it's 3P tomorrow and Cakez is one of the three, right? There's no advantage to scum if this is a fake out?

It's 1-shot bulletproof, he was presumably hit once so the next time he'll die.

This is optimal play for scum in situations like this because it leaves an extra suspect for the scum to hide within.

You can expect that chilledtea knows enough what he's doing to attack SirCakez over one of the VTs.

[Expedience]

also Expe can you link some scum games of yours?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=26364
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=26364

I'm not scum very often, and when I am it shows.

And I could've done that without making myself look inconsistent and terrible?

ofc because why would he kill himself

Well, I am town.

I get you are scum reading me. Is it impossible for you to see this game where I am town and shannon scum?

^ this post is a borderline scumclaim

Phrasing implicitly assumes that I'm town, and the tone is incredibly propitiatory anyway.

VOTE: chilledtea because Cakez let me.

[Expedience]

Are you reading the thread?

No, of course not, that's what I've been saying the entire day and why I'm currently voting you...

Alone, there is the fact that shannon would never have no killed / hit SirCakez. She clearly isn't faking misunderstanding of the MyLo thing. So you're going to have to vote me (I can see that this is part of your fake toughness act, the same one you've been pulling the entire game which actually made me townread you earlier).

[Expedience]

So the question was just posturing and you made up a little story about how I'm scum? k got it

There was no change of attitude towards shannon, my stance yesterday was an attempt at rationalizing the fact that shannon lied about her reads to try and get me lynched and the fact that she was also doing very townie things at the same time. You'll notice that I didn't lynch shannon. I managed to work things out at

the worst possible moment

, after I quickhammered a town member. (better story)

[Expedience]

Yes obviously, that's why I concluded that shannon was mislead town. That was the entire foundation of my dilemma.

You don't mean what you're saying and you're just spouting theory at me.

My reads this game have been very flexible.

[Expedience]

And no, my answer didn't tell you antthing and you would've accused me anyway, because it was already really obvious what I was going to answer based on my posts. Therefore it was scummy posturing.

Are you seriously acting as if you

didn't

think a shannon lynch was possible? It's clearly not because she's town.

[Expedience]

SirCakez, because she would've misplayed. Her posts show that she wasn't considering the possibility of attacking you.

It doesn't matter anyway.

Chilledtea's post is a lie, I was not inflexibly scumreading shannon yesterday as he presents it. I was conflicted and changed my mind multiple times. I concluded at the end of the day when I hammered Cephrir actually townreading shannon.

[Expedience]

And shannon's going to be a lot more confbiased than you js...

[Expedience]

And no, my answer didn't tell you antthing and you would've accused me anyway, because it was already really obvious what I was going to answer based on my posts. Therefore it was scummy posturing.

Are you seriously acting as if you

didn't

think a shannon lynch was possible? It's clearly not because she's town.

There is no such thing as obvious in your posts to the point where I wouldn't ask you a question to verify something.

You were flexible yesterday but you aren't today and the bridge between the two events isn't strong enough to justify the change of position.

This is a meaningless statement.

I have been scum reading you and shannon both btw, since day 2 itself. Problem is, ceph who is confirmed town and cakez who is confirmed town, both town read shannon, and there must be something in it for both of them to read her that way.

They also scumread you so lol.

Your change in position is interesting since your reasoning isn't strong enough for the position you are taking (shannon = mislead town, chilled = strong scum) which is stark contrast from yesterday.

Not really.

I didn't express some of my thoughts close to the end of yesterday and that seems to have been a mistake. I concluded that it had to be Cephrir, and when it wasn't I questioned the assumption of you being town (I had not even considered questioning this for a while) much more strongly.

You're still being vague about it and haven't taken a stance even though it's obvious you're going to vote me.

[Expedience]

Chilledtea is faking paranoia of shannon specifically after he pointed out how I didn't have paranoia of shannon. Any town in my situation could see that shannon is clearly town.

[Expedience]

Chilledtea's post is not so much motivated by leaving his options open as trying to make it look like he's considering all options, while trying to portray me as only pushing one person as scum.

[Expedience]

Well in my first newbie game I quickhammered someone as town...

Search tells me that I also put someone at L-1 in a game with ika lol.

So not really. I haven't done it as either alignment in a way that would be relevant to you, that's a more reasonable way to frame it.

[Expedience]

Hey, if you lynch me that's entirely on you. If you're unwilling to see that things which you perceived of as anti-town can come from either alignment then that's your loss ultimately.

[Expedience]

Still got a bad feeling about shannon.

Scum faking indecision because he thinks it looks town. There is no indecision here if I was scum and chilledtea was town.

[Expedience]

I've already said this, but it's not about keeping his options open to push a lynch on you instead. He knows he will win by lynching me. He's waiting for Cakez to vote so he can hammer basically.

A similar situation to this occurred in a game I played with Firebringer where he fakeclaimed doctor for no reason as VT. And I basically tunneled him and we lost. I was unwilling to consider the possibility that he would do that as town, probably because I felt like he should be responsible for his actions and I shouldn't have to play around others if they do things like that. Even though people hammering when they feel like it isn't actually bad in some situations (I consider it okay when the day has gone for long enough and people are just repeating themselves, nothing is progressing and a resolution needs to be reached), it's analogous because you think it's bad.

[Expedience]

Fuck ;-;

[Expedience]

It was because you had these really town-looking reactions to pressure and I just kept doubting myself every time... Well played, anyway.