Mini Normal 2294 Mafia PT

[Ausuka]

hi

I'm not too familiar with any of these roles but apparently visionary is just like, a voyeur but the other person gets results (and is informed of what you did)

It's probably mostly useless in terms of actual power, and even if I was town loud voyeur isn't really a meaningful role, so shrug

I assume unstoppable is, like, a strongman?

[Ausuka]

Yeah, visionary is a role that was added a few months back and I don't think it's been used yet

It kind of seems like a glorified fruit vendor, but at least if I target one of you guys with it you'll get information.

But then that's what town would probably expect a mafia visionary to do so idk it's just a bunch of wifom and I doubt it will do anything

[Ausuka]

Also I have very little experience with anyone in this playerlist

Well I've played a few games with elsa jay and kokichi oma but i don't think I can tell you any useful information about them

In terms of town roles I would probably lean towards them having quite a lot of low-impact roles much like mine, including ~some~ sort of protective power. There may also be new roles used on the town side; I could be wrong on this but it seems more likely that visionary is in the game because it's a new role with limited prior use, rather than it serving a specific purpose for the setup, given how light it is in terms of power

[Ausuka]

yeah visionary is just a nothing role.

Nepenthe are you around or are we getting a new player

[Ausuka]

Our mafia partner who apparently is not around

[Ausuka]

hi! hopefully you can get into the game from now

btw how do you guys feel about bussing? I am pro bussing when it's convenient to the game state because like, in practise people do still townread it and it works. But I know some people are vehemently against it and I don't want to do anything that will make us angry at each other

[Ausuka]

Yeah agreed.

I think it's pretty likely gimli and kokichi are masons here but that could also easily be wrong and I think it is probably best for me to stay the course here for now

There could be some weird role machinations going on with the whole "Elsa we are your ally" thing but hopefully if that is the case I can get them to be clearer about it by the time they kill me and you guys know who to target if I die

[Ausuka]

I believe I would have done nothing differently in regards to kokichi specifically as town, I have little patience for trying to read into those 1000iq gambit plays, but it's not really important and what happens will happen

[Ausuka]

Yeah masons are like one of the more traditionally common roles

Normal games in 2023 have like, basically a whole ton of roles and modifiers. You can read about it in https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

There are non-mason ways for people to be informed each other are town, like some sort of informed town player, but I feel like if gimli and kokichi know each other are town they probably decided to co-ordinate it with each other in private. Again this could easily be wrong but the interactions with them feel very strange

[Ausuka]

anyway fwiw i think you're both doing great, masons would theoretically have had a n1 meeting/know each other by now, right? is it possible for a setup to have two masons at the start? i genuinely haven't seen any setups like that so i'm curious but i'll reread with that in mind.

They can talk to each other at all times, it's basically just exactly the same as what this is

[Ausuka]

I mean most of the stuff I'm saying is pretty genuine!

[Ausuka]

LMAO I actually really like your approach to me and I am curious to see if it will work to just tie yourself to your partner in that way! It's not something I think most people would expect

[Ausuka]

tru

[Ausuka]

Hm yeah it makes some sense

Tbh tho I think the gambit thing can probably just be taken at face value? It seems like he genuinely believes in it as a way of reading people

I thought it was a mason because of how gimli went along with it and pushed a similar line before kokichi even entered the thread - it felt co ordinated and also gimli said 'kokichi town' right near the game start

He did scumread him later but that could have been part of the EPIC GAMBIT PLAYS

[Ausuka]

I mean it's very possible I'm wrong though, guessing specific PRs on day one is not exactly easy

[Ausuka]

I mean I agree but who knows maybe there's something I'm not getting shrug

[Ausuka]

fwiw my pushes weren't really made to appeal to like comus or whatever i'm just vibing

[Ausuka]

Comus does not have particularly accurate reads right now but he's an universal townread and killing him could be useful at some point, especially if we don't want to signal to the entire game his reads are wrong

[Ausuka]

I don't think gimli is scumreading comus?

[Ausuka]

Also I am pretty sure now I know who comus and gimli are

It is probably not ethical to say who they are here? But comus I am pretty sure is a famously aggro kind of player who acts very confident but can change reads very quickly

Gimli is, uh, I'm not sure if I have anything to say beyond what is already obvious. He acts confident a lot? He is probably somewhat an above average player and is often very loud?

pedit: yeah i should have said that too sry

[Ausuka]

Elsa is probably lying

[Ausuka]

We might want to kill him anyway idk it's up to you guys I can see both sides of it.

He's probably not going to get eliminated with that claim and if he is actually cop he is going to nuke us tomorrow which is probably bad

On the other hand, if we leave him alive and he actually *isn't* cop i think it looks really good for us

[Ausuka]

or town can just do this for us. this works too

[Ausuka]

it's fine, i totally understand why this game might not be that interesting

btw i hope me making fun of your d1 thing in the thread is ok? i think it looks anti associative and you don't seem like you would really care but i should probably ask anyway

[Ausuka]

I kind of understand where you are coming from but i think doing that would get pretty easily noticeable over time

It's fine if you have a meta of sitting back as either alignment but my meta is the opposite

[Ausuka]

Maybe I enjoy it a bit too! Being active and in the fray of things, I mean. It's pretty nice to not have to care about saying things which are correct.

Sorry!

[Ausuka]

I think enchant flipping would be best for us today but obviously I can't push for that

[Ausuka]

By DOUBLING DOWN on buddying enchant I will use my BIG BRAIN powers to force them to push enchant harder

This has literally zero risk

[Ausuka]

Ok uh hi guys are we still here

[Ausuka]

i forgot who my partners were, luv that for me when it happens because it means y'all are doing a good job. i'll say this now: i have zero emotional investment in mafia (i've played for 10+ years of my life on this site and others, there just has to come a point where you no longer allow yourself to care) which i hope is encouraging to you both in that there will be no hard feelings if bussing me ever becomes advantageous at any point to either of your games. yes, we're a team but ultimately, if only one or two of us can carry this home, the fact remains that we all win.

I'm just quoting to ping you, are you still around

[Ausuka]

On a game relevant note;

I still think elsa is not a cop
I don't think magical girl is a bodyguard, but I could be wrong given we have a strongman (it just seems really difficult to confuse quoting and PM on the new site)
I think kokichi probably is a vig? But that's very much a high-risk-high-reward kill

[Ausuka]

Ausuka targets klick with visionary

This means basically nothing

[Ausuka]

Yeah, I thought so too

It just seems like, really difficult to make the 'slip' MG did given now you have to click on that little speech bubble and then click the blue button? I guess it's not impossible, and bodyguard is a weird claim to make if you're trying to bait a kill or something. I'm down for that if you guys don't want to go for koki - I think he softed vig, and the claim looked sincere and he went back on it only when he realised the deadline was imminent. But I guess it *could* still be a fake claim and he's a bad kill if vanilla

[Ausuka]

nepenthe kills magical girl

Let's save her from this game

[Ausuka]

I don't think there are really any good kills here

[Ausuka]

I think we need a replacement for nepenthe

[Ausuka]

hi! nice to see you again

um, i don't think there's anything you super need to know when reading?

[Ausuka]

I guess the replacements aren't really in the opening post, so if you need a guide;
KawaiiKame
Salsabil Faria -> Save the Dragons (eliminated D1)
geraintm
Dionysus -> Menalque
Magical girl (killed N1?)
Gimli
Elsa Jay
Comus
nepenthe -> Skygazer
Enchant
Kokichi Oma
Ausuka
Nono -> Klick

[Ausuka]

Btw if you have any thoughts on the kill please lmk - deadline is pretty short and i am currently in the position of 'there aren't really any good kills here'

well I kinda want to kill koki but it's risky and i don't think gera is down

[Ausuka]

I think klick said they would visit me so i thought it would be nice to reciprocate it!

what do you think is iffy about it? I might be underthinking since I think my role is useless

[Ausuka]

oh, I kind of get what you mean, but I think outing myself as a PR probably isn't that bad because my role is just like, voyeur but I don't get results - it's not quite visitor, but I don't think it's far from it lole

I guess I could just not use it at all but THAT'S BORING smh

[Ausuka]

I think I would do this as town which is why I was doing it! I think the PR is pretty neutral, but hopefully people will take it as townie??

[Ausuka]

Actually nvm I just realised that would be a dumb way to use it

Ausuka target elsa jay

[Ausuka]

Hopefully not too late to change that

[Ausuka]

It's just such a nothing role though... Like even in the hypothetical that Elsa would get role-investigated and she would find out, what does that even do for town

[Ausuka]

i could claim like, town combined visionary [something] tho

pedit: that's fine if you want to?

he'll probably take that as you like discrediting him to save me or something, for what it's worth

[Ausuka]

I think comus will probably hardpush me for most of the day and eventually switch to someone else though

I guess it's possible he'll stay on me?

Regardless he is a VT claim and I think I can handle it because he doesn't communicate very well

[Ausuka]

makes sense. sleep well!

[Ausuka]

People will eventually start reading me as tvt I have faith

But it's not like we need me alive to win, and Gera if you do feel like bussing me here (not bussing also works) it would probably work really well if I die today

[Ausuka]

Fwiw I know I'm scum but Comus is still completely wrong about what I'm doing here? My thoughts on him are completely genuine - I'm not saying anything to appeal specifically to Gimli or to discredit him, I think discrediting Comus would just be a massive waste of time because he has discredited himself, but to continue acting out an internally consistent mindset and that includes giving my actual opinions on Comus

[Ausuka]

I still think it's not a trueclaim but who knows

[Ausuka]

Kawaii visited them, if you haven't seen it

I don't think it's role based, Comus is just like that

[Ausuka]

does this mean the hider has to target someone each night to use their hiding ability, but they do die if the person they are hiding at dies too??

Yes

does this suggest that Kawaii also visted Elsa last night with their hiding ability?

Yeah

[Ausuka]

Maybe?

Comus's description of my scumplay genuinely baffles me and I can probably "win" against him just by saying things I genuinely believe

[Ausuka]

I was hoping like some sort of outside force was going to address the gaslighting thing because it's the kind of thing that's just going to drag me into an argument but that was really really gross

[Ausuka]

Meh i guess not everyone views it as a domestic abuse term but it felt so out of left field. Shrug

[Ausuka]

so true

[Ausuka]

The 1v1 with comus is a great way to post a lot of words that no one will read

[Ausuka]

:v i hope you feel better soon!

[Ausuka]

not really sure what i'm doing wrong here given everything comus has done, but like whatever i probably do need to step back from the thread anyway

hopefully i haven't like ruined the game or anything lole

[Ausuka]

Oh it's eiralox

That makes sense we fought in the last game we played together

I think we're just not compatible lole

[Ausuka]

We should probably just kill off the PRs right? I don't think anyone except maybe Comus is going to keep pushing them because there's a lack of meaningful town power here without them and they work together

[Ausuka]

Actually Kokichi is just going to prove himself and can't be forced so killing him is totally fine. If he shoots tonight and he probably will, that's just better because it means unless Enchant gets a save it should be elo tomorrow

I think Elsa might actually be a jailkeeper LMAO

[Ausuka]

Well he could always shoot one of us but I don't think he's going to

If he does good for him

[Ausuka]

the way she is behaving in this game is extremely tiresome if she is mafia. she is not just OMGUSing you, she is actively engaging on your tunnel and I think this is not the way she'd choose to play as mafia.

I feel like this post could mean either "it would be tiresome for scum!ausuka to engage on the tunnel" (which is true but it would be tiresome for me to try to play around it and force myself to ignore him also) or "ausuka's play this game by engaging comus is tiresome and i'd like to think she wouldn't do that as mafia" which is like

Yeah idk people can judge me for it if they want. I tend to not really consciously choose what to do in a calculated way because I think that's easy to detect and I just don't think it's a good idea, even purely from a game enjoyment of everyone perspective, to take significantly different reactions to 'unfun' things as mafia - that just feels like the lamest kind of meta. as mafia I am usually playing a role and felt it very difficult to ignore comus and not push him on it - i feel like i would definitely be at least concerned with his action as town, although it's very possible i would have approached it differently - at which point the situation just kind of escalated because comus was not really willing to tolerate me giving him shit in return

[Ausuka]

Hm idk.

So far our claims are

Enchant - doc that can't protect vig.
Kokichi - novice vig probably.

So i don't think we need to use it tonight, especially because you are probably the least likely of us to die d3?

I think we have more town power than this btw

[Ausuka]

I think the play is to kill kokichi, do either of you think otherwise?

My thinking is that by killing him tonight, town is put on evens and his shot basically replaces an elimination. If he gets to shoot twice, that's equivalent to an extra town lim

[Ausuka]

Oh i forgot hider

Yeah, hider is decent power

There is a fifth role tho i think

I think menalque is... probably the only person it could be, in that case

[Ausuka]

It would also make sense if kawaii was lying about being a basic hider, but I don't think they are

[Ausuka]

Ok upon thinking about it briefly Menalque is probably an investigative and it's probably something along the lines of a tracker - not exactly that but I think he's likely to be some kind of investigative that has to do with visiting (because I think there is likely more to the theme with me and klick's roles than have been revealed already)

I probably still would rather kill off Kokichi but maybe we should think about it and who should make the kill in case it's important?

[Ausuka]

Of course it's speculation and could certainly be wrong but meh I'm going off what I have and it might help at least a little to have an idea of what to expect

[Ausuka]

I think kokichi will vig comus but who knows

I don't think anyone right now has great reads tbh

If koki doesn't kill comus I think miseliminating him will be challenging but we can try? I'm cautious of getting into another fight with him because it might just end up making the game unfun for people again

[Ausuka]

Ausuka targets Kokichi
skygazer kills Kokichi

You guys can change if you want

[Ausuka]

I was told to target kokichi in the thread and agreed to it. I think it would look worse if I were tracked to anyone else

[Ausuka]

Actually I should probably make the kill for that reason huh.

Ausuka kills Kokichi

[Ausuka]

im fine w whatever

would be concerned if there's an investigative role out there that mirrors yours that can detect what kind of action someone takes and sees u make a killing action

Yeah uh i think i'm a counterintuitive target for a follower but it's definitely a possibility

I don't think there's any zero risk course of action tho

[Ausuka]

Oops I got owned

One of us might be able to claim 1x vig depending on who enchant protected but lol

[Ausuka]

Is enchant even a doc?

I thought the role seemed very unlikely to be faked and that it worked with kokichi's but maybe enchant is just giga brain

I really struggle to see where else the town prs are. I guess gimli might have been fakeclaiming VT??

[Ausuka]

Like in terms of power we have a strongman and another role to counter a doctor and a fucking visitor and a nerfed bp

Ughh we should have killed.menalque

[Ausuka]

I bet Menalque is some kind of cop or something aa

I looked at his iso and I couldn't find any softs. Did Klick know???

[Ausuka]

I think a pr claim could be good

Like, just in the sense that town power rn does seem sort of low?

[Ausuka]

The best advice i think i could give, is to claim some sort of modifier because all the roles in this game have had them and a simple and normal claim could stand out.

Like idk an indecisive jack of all trades (bodyguard, reporter, vigilante)

[Ausuka]

but i guess just iso yourself and see what you think would make sense idk

[Ausuka]

But if you don't claim something I feel like ppl might clear Menalque

[Ausuka]

Well at least if kawaii wasn't hiding a modifier this will be a big W for us

[Ausuka]

The best advice i think i could give, is to claim some sort of modifier because all the roles in this game have had them and a simple and normal claim could stand out.

Like idk an indecisive jack of all trades (bodyguard, reporter, vigilante)

Sorryy I should not have said this

Mostly every role has had.one and I think it looks better but this sounds like EVERY ROLE has one >.> OOPS

[Ausuka]

Uh on the bright side if you.die I think we're still not positioned too badly and town doesn't get as much info out of today?

Sorry tho

[Ausuka]

Actually faking a guilty here might not be the worst thing

[Ausuka]

I guess you can say if pressed that you thought Kawaii just had a modifier they weren't claiming like weak hider which is common and wanted it to self.resolve?? Or that he might not want to claim a modifier for some other reason?

[Ausuka]

goatgazer

bamboozled town without trying

[Ausuka]

I remember when we played scum together and then you claimed informed and guiltied me

[Ausuka]

Umm it was a mini normal by tris i think

[Ausuka]

In your defense it was funny (and both our slots were dead anyways)

[Ausuka]

Um ok did I miscalculate?

I mean it's possible people are fakeclaiming for no reason but maybe i haven't thought about this enough

The setup does seem kind of townsided as it is.

Doctor, Hider, Visitor vs Loud Visionary, 1x Strongman

Like why do we need a strongman here? Is Klick lying or something?

[Ausuka]

I feel like someone has to be lying?? I don't think I'm forgetting anyone.

Like I am probably more on the townsided side of the nrg but I just really struggle to see that passing review.

[Ausuka]

Oops guys I misread my role pm I'm actually a combined hider cop and I didn't read my results pms

[Ausuka]

I actually kind of admire the ability to be wrong over and over and over and never lose any confidence

[Ausuka]

SKYGAZER U ARE AN EVIL GENIUS

[Ausuka]

I feel so bad for laughing hahahaha

[Ausuka]

Maybe??

[Ausuka]

I can't help but feel like one of the vt claims might be lying but I don't know

[Ausuka]

Maybeeeee

I sort of worry that would look like we co ordinated it but we'll see

[Ausuka]

Maybe gimli is correct that there is some sort of insane synergy between a doc and a hider which I'm not seeing and that's why this game is, uh, the way it is.

I understand the roles have *some* synergy in that getting 2 saves is good, but there's also anti synergy in that it makes doc saves less clear.

In this case I will hand in my reviewer badge in shame

[Ausuka]

I broadly think that the most likely case is that someone is fakeclaiming and I'm hoping if so my line of reasoning will make them more obvious.

The second, less likely, case is that this game is a perfect storm of Firebringer and Isis maybe having different thoughts of balance to what i perceive to be standard + maybe just kind of messing up the review idk it can happen (sorry firebringer and isis)

[Ausuka]

I thought your interaction towards me came off kinda pockety but that might actually be a good thing

I think now we have an excuse to kill comus I can maybe make it to end

[Ausuka]

[Ausuka]

how

[Ausuka]

ohhh disloyal yeah that makes more sense

[Ausuka]

so comus is like a fucking disloyal vig or something right

[Ausuka]

Mena dying today against my wishes is good for me

If you think I am best positioned for endgame voting for him might be good

If you don't think that obviously do what you want I'm not your boss

[Ausuka]

That would kind of spew a deep wolf I think?

Idk I mean the deadline is p close

[Ausuka]

like i think mena's read here is fairly blatantly that now he thinks gimli's play wasn't towny (which i agree with largely, my doubts on gimli mostly come from today? although my read on him has been pretty fuzzy ever since elsa faked that inno result) rather than he didn't think that back then

gimli trying to spin it to get back on mena and trying to squirm out of townreading me (which like, not having me as locktown is kind of fair, but then why did he ever have me as locktown in the first place? what changes there?) just feels gross

i think it's pretty likely gimli + kawaii + 3

Well plus side is you probably die after i get flipped so we can commiserate together in dead thread while the remaining town probably flip like, sky or gera or something

so true bestie

[Ausuka]

I'm still not sure if we kill enchant or comus lol

[Ausuka]

I guess it depends if we think we can actually miselim comus

[Ausuka]

UGH what if gera dies

I don't have any excuse *not* to vote him here because OF COURSE the counterwagons have to be fucking menalque and enchant

I mean he would never watch either of you guys but like what if he did ughhh

[Ausuka]

Gera do u think it would be terrible if i voted u here

[Ausuka]

Sky I think you can get away with it

We have like an hour

[Ausuka]

I think so

[Ausuka]

You can just say you prefer it to Gera right

[Ausuka]

Ok I think this could work

[Ausuka]

Like your iso I think reads like you wouldn't mind Mena dying??

[Ausuka]

LMAO I hope no one catches onto that 30 second timegap

[Ausuka]

I feel like "Mena is scummier than Gera" may have been a better line to take but oooooh well sry

[Ausuka]

as my punishment i am cursed to f3 over and over and over

[Ausuka]

literally

last scum game i am in f3

this scum game i am in f3

i am f3 cursed

[Ausuka]

it's ok i probably should have been more clear ig and even if you did do the line i wanted you to, there's a good chance it would have had the same result but more drawn out. at least this way, we deny town information

[Ausuka]

and can i win the f3? maybe? I mean, I've been shaded a little bit. i think i can get away with killing comus, then enchant. the last kill is difficult though

[Ausuka]

i guess maybe if i need to i can try and be a *tiny* bit scummier to explain why i'm at f3 but that can backfire, obviously

[Ausuka]

do we even need to kill comus lmao anymore

if he guilties skygazer that kind of looks like a bus

[Ausuka]

who else do we even kill though

[Ausuka]

Maybe gera can indeed argue that

[Ausuka]

Sky would it be in bad taste to nominate you for Kodak when this is over

[Ausuka]

i wouldnt mind but i dont think im necessarily deserving

I just thought it was kind of funny but maybe people don't agree idk

[Ausuka]

To be fair technically I did bus Gera

I still feel like someone is going to catch onto the fact sky hammered 30 seconds after I posted lmao

To be fair, it's not intuitive to check the postcount that way, I would totally understand if they didn't, but also like it's possible that they do

[Ausuka]

I'm glad Klick went from thinking I'm shallow to thinking I'm deep

Tbh I think people perceive me differently depending on if I'm on mobile or on computer because on mobile I am more snappy and hit submit quickly and on computer I write what I actually mean and want to say, but it sounds more constructed and less emotional

[Ausuka]

Maybe I should learn to exploit that

[Ausuka]

I just had a thought

When sky flips will people think the last maf is informed

[Ausuka]

That might be bad actually because then how can I explain being alive

Klick maybe

[Ausuka]

sorry!! maybe u can escape with ur will e coyote tricks

[Ausuka]

i would locktown you

[Ausuka]

yeah sorry i thought i already did that for some reason

potato brain

[Ausuka]

Ok I want to get to a place where i can get klick to vote for gimli but i can't just flip after what i did yesterday LMAO sorry i have to make it genuine or he's going to notice

[Ausuka]

Maybe if you don't it looks like you want Klick to be able to change the situation

Idk

[Ausuka]

I think we just kill enchant here?

[Ausuka]

I mean he's the doctor that's like pretty inconvenient

He is also like less suspected than most.people I think.

It's not super clear if he was claiming I bussed sky? If that was the case killing him might actually be bad if people are going to notice, but oh well

[Ausuka]

Also if enchant targets gimli he's going to be confirmed as a doc which would be bad

[Ausuka]

Gimli yeah thanks

[Ausuka]

Gimli would know if a visitor targeted him because I used my visionary on him - he would have picked up the visitor as a miscellaneous action.

I misunderstood the rb thing too, but shield is a roleblocking action and that's why gimli got a 'roleblocking' acttion. I think that's counterintuitive, because shield does not roleblock, but like whatever

[Ausuka]

i am very much confused by the decision to clear gimli, off the back of how skygazer didn't really *need* to claim to target him there? but that's the same logic they are using to clear me and it may not be in my best interest to challenge it

[Ausuka]

Yeah sorry I think that has to be the.plan here

If you die today and Gimli dies tonight I think we have this

[Ausuka]

Part of me feels bad because I am sort of slowrolling this but wouldn't it be SO suspicious if I was like "haha klick you should vote for kawaii haha no reason just saying haha"

[Ausuka]

Maybe

I think I need to make sure somehow that gimli dying tonight doesn't feel unnatural

[Ausuka]

Um, we might have to hammer co-ordinate here

How often are you around? we're in the same time zone so there shouldn't be any difficulty

[Ausuka]

Is there anything I can do before I go down to help?

hi uh notifying or whatever re:hammertesting

[Ausuka]

That time works for me too

[Ausuka]

ok!

[Ausuka]

See you

[Ausuka]

Kill gimli

I already submitted it by PM but sky and gera are probably reading this and I don't want you guys to think I'm throwing

Well, gimli not dying wouldn't be the end of the world, but it just seems bad

[Ausuka]

I could probably still win but it would take sooooooooo much longer

[Ausuka]

Lmao I'm so dumb