Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[CoolBot]

Albert B. Rampage

For a competing wagon.

[CoolBot]

Whoops, must remember to preview.

vote: Albert B. Rampage

[CoolBot]

Though is it pretty interesting PEG and ABR also both have 3 votes each... Why are they so wagonable?

What's wrong with a good wagon to start out the game?

[CoolBot]

Ugh, lot of crap in this game. Surye is acting awfully twitchy, though. He may not be the lynch for today, but he's a excellent candidate for a wagon.

unvote: Albert B. Rampage
vote: Surye

[CoolBot]

What required warning? I don't know what you mean by that, Adel.

Surye, you might want to think about making a claim. Your outrage at being voted cannot be defended by saying you were trying to generate discussion

I think we should all lower our guns for a minute and talk this over without the imminent threat of a lynch.

No thanks. I'd rather get somewhere in this game.

[CoolBot]

I'm vigging you tonight Coolbot.

Oh, I'm scared now. But I'd still like Surye to claim and for you to stop trying to halt any progress in this game.

[CoolBot]

Are you kidding me, shaft? One unvote is a dying wagon? The only reason it was dying was that Albert whined about it, not for any reasonable defense by Surye. I think a claim is justified at this point. It only being 6 or 7 pages in doesn't change that.

[CoolBot]

Hmm, I thought that was L-1, too. I should've checked.

That doesn't change the fact I want a claim, or at least a defense from Surye other than "trying to generate discussion". That's what a bandwagon is for - to force someone to have to defend oneself and, yes, to claim. Letting him go without doing so is folly.

[CoolBot]

I'm just a townie.

I still haven't seen any good reason to let up on Surye, so I still want a claim.

[CoolBot]

Yes, I've suddenly came up with the Surye must claim to distract the wagon.

[CoolBot]

The problem is that there was a bandwagon on him and I saw him do nothing to defend himself from reasonable attacks. Allowing that is a recipe for failure.

[CoolBot]

I want you to claim. I haven't been unclear about this. You defending your early behavior as just generating discussion is what warranted the wagon, but now I want a claim.

[CoolBot]

Rosso, you aren't even voting anyone. If you really want a bandwagon, take action and vote. No one will care otherwise.


I agree that Tar ignoring Albert is odd, especially considering he was the one who said Surye was at L-1 to get people to unvote.

[CoolBot]

CoolBot, since Surye is not now in imminent danger of lynch, why do you continue to insist that he claim?

Initially, I was trying to get people to stop unvoting him. That didn't work, and he hasn't given me any reason to unvote him. Finally, I find people who avoid claims don't have one. Therefore, he's my default vote until he does.

meh, not my style.

Then what is your style? Because right now it looks like you're trying to foment a lynch with taking the risk of actually voting the person.

[CoolBot]

Attacks without votes are meaningless and are usually ignored. Trying to get a bandwagon started without voting is often a waste of time. Why did you attack Adel without taking the risk of a vote? The most likely explanation I have is that you're scum trying to get her lynched without having to take responsibility for starting the wagon. Why else would you do it?

[CoolBot]

I am well aware of you're attacking Adel. It the way you're going about it that strikes me so scummy. By not voting, you have plausible deniability if the lynch turned out bad. This takes advantage of how people often only look at who voted on the bandwagon after a bad lynch.

What do you have to gain by not voting anyway?

[CoolBot]

Coolbot, attacks without being on a wagon : meaningless how?

Maybe not meaningless, but easy to hide if the lynch later turns out bad. And it wasn't just that he was attacking -- it was how he specifically called for a bandwagon without voting. It doesn't make sense to me. So I asked him to clarify and all he said was that it was his play style. I'd like a little more before letting go of this because right now I don't have any idea what his motives are.

[CoolBot]

i also believ adel needs to be lynched.

Well, a vote would help.

I still want Surye lynched for not claiming. This day has been a waste because very few are willing to follow through on a wagon. If no one's willing to lynch Surye, I think Russo would be a good candidate.

[CoolBot]

Albert, do you have a reason for voting Adel? You begging us to vote Adel isn't enough reason for me to lynch him. Show us something scummy she's done, and I'll consider it. And no, claims of "freakish accuracy" are not enough.

[CoolBot]

Look, her accusation of me wanting to lynch her for out of game reasons is utter nonsense.

Not from where I'm sitting. Just saying she's acting like she does when she's scum doesn't fly. You need to show what she's doing in particular. A couple links would be nice because you're not letting us judge for ourselves. It really does look like you're try to make a wagon out of nothing here.

[CoolBot]

I'll go for an Albert lynch. When I directly asked him for some justification for voting Adel, he doesn't give any and attacks me. Seems to me he has no basis whatsoever and is just trying to push through a bad lynch.

unvote: Suyre
vote: Albert B. Rampage

[CoolBot]

The deadline is over a week away. Worrying about a no-lynch now is premature, and I don't remember anyone advocating one.

[CoolBot]

Why especially in a meta-breaking game? Scum still have to make up their claim. True, it's easier because we can't rule out roles but that doesn't render claims useless. Scum make mistakes when pressured. I will continue to apply pressure where I feel fit.

Remember, it was ABR who stalled the Surye wagon before it was able to do its job, and it's ABR who is promoting a completely baseless wagon on Adel. When the Adel wagon proved tough, he moved back to me to get a lynch. It looks to me he's protecting Surye and trying to push through any other lynch he can. That's why my vote changed, and that's where it'll stay until he makes a believable claim or he's dead.

[CoolBot]

Scummy as heck.

Like hell. Adel is acting exactly like someone frustrated with being the target of some relentless crusade. Nothing you said indicates scum. Wishy washy voting? Everyone does that. Going strongly for you? Perfectly reasonable taking your actions into account. Switching from you and back again? Reasonable at the time. You have nothing on Adel.

[CoolBot]

I'm a townie. I'm expendable. Adel may not be.

[CoolBot]

ABR is our best option at this point. His actions show he's less interested in finding scum and more interested in BS wagons.

Machiavellian, there's nothing defeatist in saying I'm expendable. It's just a fact. All townies are.

[CoolBot]

Role-blocker here.

I'm not sure if I trust this completely, but a blocker can be proven if needed.

unvote: Albert B. Rampage

Now, that leaves me with Surye & Russo. I think Russo's repeated calls for wagons without voting is more scummy than Surye refusing to claim. So,

vote: Russo Carne

Untrue. It is extremely scummy. The word you seek is 'rolefishing'.

Rolefishing is trying to get info about the role

without

making in obvious you're asking for it. It's used by scum to find a target while hopefully keeping the docs in the dark. Directly asking for a claim while a wagon exists is about the worse way possible of doing this. What you are doing is suggesting we shouldn't expect claims off wagons. Do you really mean that?

[CoolBot]

From the outside perspective, yes ABR's arguments have been mostly crap, but from ABR's own perspective, the sincerity of his efforts leads me to believe ABRtown is more likely than ABRscum.

This doesn't really make sense. ABR's arguments are based entirely on his crusade against Adel. They only make sense if you consider a multi-game crusade to be helpful. It isn't.

because while most will think RBer is a scum role,

No one has said anything about blockers being a scum role.

[CoolBot]

Coolbot, pay attention

Whoops. Well, let me amend that to pointing out only one person has said blocker is a scum role, not most.