Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[shaft.ed]

Elias are those games ongoing?

vote: Elias

for maybe talking about ongoing games

[shaft.ed]

Mod: camisade has not posted in this thread yet. Prod?

Rosso Carne has not voted yet... I'd like to get out of the random stage, thank you very much nicely.

nah, nothing really to vote on IMHO.

Ecto has a Depeshe Mode quote in his sig... IRL that is enough for me to put machine oil in his coffee.

But how do you know it is Depesche Mode unless you're a closet listener. Case closed!

[shaft.ed]

Shameless bandwagoning noted

[shaft.ed]

I listen to KMFDM, and you can't appreciate KMFDM unless you are familiar with the enemy.

you're a terrorist too?

[shaft.ed]

Only if he really looks like town. He's 5-5 as town, so if he's looking mediocre

we

can leave him alone.

Who do you mean by we?

[shaft.ed]

So you want to lynch him already?

[shaft.ed]

I agree with Adel. I also found Surye to be trying to hard to look proactive before this broke.

unvote vote: Surye

Would any of the other eleven people signed up for this game like to post?

[shaft.ed]

dont like Adel right now.

I never do. She's my DGB apparently.

[shaft.ed]

You don't know Adel and Ecto apparently. This is SOP for them.

[shaft.ed]

Well damn, I hope I'm not lynched for ignorance of their play style, I've just been trying to get the conversation away from game histories and on some scumhunting.

You're at L-5, I'm surprised that you'd be talking about you lynch at this point. Reason to worry?

[shaft.ed]

So would ABR really be this blatant with a scum partner? Would he be this blatant as scum "rescuing" a defenseless townie? Interesting.

[shaft.ed]

unvote, vote:Coolbot

for trying to pull a claim out of a dying wagon.

[shaft.ed]

don't worry Surye she's warming up to you

[shaft.ed]

Are you kidding me, shaft? One unvote is a dying wagon? The only reason it was dying was that Albert whined about it, not for any reasonable defense by Surye. I think a claim is justified at this point. It only being 6 or 7 pages in doesn't change that.

He was at L-4, are you on crack or something?

[shaft.ed]

FOS: COOL

not feeling a surye lynch.


that is all. Be back in like 48 pages.

Why does this post make me feel like I'm the infantryman and you're the general?

That is all.

[shaft.ed]

FOS: COOL

not feeling a surye lynch.


that is all. Be back in like 48 pages.

Why does this post make me feel like I'm the infantryman and you're the general?

That is all.

when am I not the general.....

HAHA! that was not 48 pages.

SCORE

[shaft.ed]

That's what a bandwagon is for - to force someone to have to defend oneself and, yes, to claim.

Or to find erratic behavior related to the bandwagon.

[shaft.ed]

hey ecto, can we just stick to one wagon for a little while this time. jumping aound like this is making me seasick.

unvote, vote:coolbot

FoS Adel

[shaft.ed]

I'm just a townie.

I still haven't seen any good reason to let up on Surye, so I still want a claim.

Look over there something shiny!

[shaft.ed]

Adel why are you pushing bandwagons further than in House?

[shaft.ed]

Surye brings up a good point Tar. Why the mention of Ecto and Adel but nothing on Albert?


Also happy scumday Albert.

[shaft.ed]

unvote, vote Adel

[shaft.ed]

I get the feeling Adel is scum. I need to figure out why. Why are you so amorphous Adel?

[shaft.ed]

Finally, I find people who avoid claims don't have one.

I find that to be completely inaccurate.

[shaft.ed]

Oh and Adel I'm not ignoring you , just don't have time for a proper reply.

[shaft.ed]

but you have time to made multipule posts in the social forums?


interesting...

Read

proper

[shaft.ed]

I had a more detailed reply in mind, but for some reason today mafia is just feeling like work. But so as to not keep you hanging over the weekend.

reading all of shaft.ed's posts in isolation I note two things...
1. he recognizes my playsstyle and characterizes it as being my SOP

You'll notice the SOP comment came a lot earlier in the game. A few things have transpired since then and you should know that.

2. Beyond typing my name a lot, he votes for me and then says he needs to figure out why he thinks I am scum...

Actually I think I might have talked about Coolbot more than you outside of randomness posts. But you have to realize your playstyle is designed to attract attention and will thus be the topic of discussion. I don't know how you expect for someone not to talk about you or think you possible scum D1.

conclusion: shaft.ed likes me getting attention

If that were all I was after I could do this.

But there's no sense in telling me
The wisdom of the fool won't set you free
But that's the way that it goes
And it's what nobody knows
Well everyday my confusion grows

[shaft.ed]

I'm vigging you tonight Coolbot.

Surye, don't claim.

Does that mean I shouldn't bother moving my vote back to him?

[shaft.ed]

By not voting, you have plausible deniability if the lynch turned out bad.

I heavily disagree with this statement.

I heavily agree with this statement.

[shaft.ed]

which reminds me

unvote, vote: Coolbot

[shaft.ed]

Back after a week of relative inactivity.

The big question of the last six pages: why the hell was Surye not forced to claim when he reached L-2?

Oh wait, that's an easy question: Surye didn't have to claim because Ecto (and to a lesser extent Adel) derailed the wagon just after it reached L-2 and before Surye was forced to claim.

I'm not going to fault CoolBot for wanting a claim out of someone who should have been forced to claim 3 pages ago. I do, however, think Ectomancer's derailing the Surye wagon and many, many questions asked while giving only a few of his own thoughts indicates that Ecto is fairly likely to be scum.

Unvote, Vote: Ectomancer

I have a question on this for tar. Why would Surye have to claim. Only one person was asking for his claim and kept asking.
@Albert: Why in the world do you think that Survey is just being normal and what is with a claim and comment that says you are not the vig. Was that necessary?

Vote: Coolbot

Surye defended himself and although it wasn't great there wasn't much for him to say. I just get the impression you are trying to put pressure on him for no reason, but to get it off you which is anti-town. I haven't seen anything you pointed out that made you vote or state Survye as scum.

I'm finding it hard to see where Coolbot fits into your above comments?

[shaft.ed]

Sorry not much love for this game. I've got a deadline in my other, will do some reading tommorow.

[shaft.ed]

Allright, did a light reread and nothing new struck me. Surye was a bit odd leading into his bandwagon. I find it interesting he's cut back considerably on the posting since getting in that hot water. But that seems understandable regardless of alignment.

Also Coolbot obviously stands out as wanting a claim. I've only seen his argument for a claim once before and it was made by scum, so I know I'm biased towards seeing that as a scum tell.

Adel and Ecto have also cut back on the posting considerably since the end of "random" stage has been declared (same could be said of me so pot kettle etc.). I find it strange that either of them would be afraid to stick their necks out because of that.

But it seems obvious the scum are playing their cards close to their chest. I'm not familiar with too many players here, but does anyone have a meta that fits?

[shaft.ed]

I'm not familiar with too many players here, but does anyone have a meta that fits?

Personally I ignore player metas, so I don't consider town/scum tells based on if people are behaving the same or differently relative to past games.
To what extent do you consider players' metas to be town/scum tells?

I see two useful types of meta's:

1) Out and out tell. This is a behavior that someone always does differently as scum/town that they are unaware of. I've caught these behavoirs on occassion and will use them to weigh end game decisions or who to pressure if I notice them. These can be noticed from simple re-reads of a players history.

2) Playstyle. If I notice someone has a particular playstyle after playing with them as town/scum, if they go against this I will decide to pressure such players. Not nearly as useful as tells, and are more difficult to absorb from a dettached re-read. I only have enough game experience with Adel to really use this approach. But her meta seems to be that she constantly shifts her meta, so I don't know if it will be too useful.

[shaft.ed]

so that game of mafia we were playing..........

[shaft.ed]

Coolbot, you must choose between Adel and yourself.

I like this idea.

Adel your unvote is very unsettling. I was on your side until that point.

I'm not sure if we have enough info to say either Adel or ABR is scum. I've read ABR being very bull-headed so there's an off chance they're two townies having at it. I'd like to wait on removing either from the game until this is more obvious, but I would rank either as my second choice for a lynch as more information would be garnered from it than other players who are part of the lurkfest. If they are two townies, scum will not be killing them in the night which is good for the town.

So yeah, I'd go with Coolbot given what I've seen.

And I'd also like to put all the lurkers on notice that this crap will not be tolerated in the future. I've been lax on my lurker pressure in this game, sorry for that.

[shaft.ed]

Also Albert, if you can Vig, you should not hit shaft.ed tonight.

Fixed

[shaft.ed]

Coolbot and Adel are starting to look tied together. Even better to lynch the Bot, we might resolve two birds with one stone.

[shaft.ed]

Why especially in a meta-breaking game? Scum still have to make up their claim. True, it's easier because we can't rule out roles but that doesn't render claims useless. Scum make mistakes when pressured. I will continue to apply pressure where I feel fit.

Remember, it was ABR who stalled the Surye wagon before it was able to do its job, and it's ABR who is promoting a completely baseless wagon on Adel. When the Adel wagon proved tough, he moved back to me to get a lynch. It looks to me he's protecting Surye and trying to push through any other lynch he can. That's why my vote changed, and that's where it'll stay until he makes a believable claim or he's dead.

So would you rather ABR or Surye claim at this point?

[shaft.ed]

I'm personally not getting a good read on either Adel or ABR. Elias matches what little I've seen of him as town. And I still like my Coolbot vote.

[shaft.ed]

I'm personally not getting a good read on either Adel or ABR. Elias matches what little I've seen of him as town. And I still like my Coolbot vote.

after modding me in House, do you think that he could honestly consider me unvoting him for a mater of hours to be both "wishy washy" and a scumtell?

I didn't Mod you in house, I was scum. I've already stated your unvote did not sit well with me. I don't consider it wishy washy, but I think you would be more likely to stick to your guns if you really felt your case to be genuine. It seemed to me as though you may have OMGUS'd Albert and then, realizing it, tried to backpedal.

[shaft.ed]

Role-blocker here. Unvote kthx.

An L-3 claim. Are you losing your nerve Albert?

[shaft.ed]

I do not find Albert's arguments to be sincere. The problem is I don't think he cares one way or another if he's right or not, regardless of alignment. Could be wrong, but that's my take on him.

I still stand by a Coolbot lynch. Not planning to move my vote at this time.

I'm pretty much agreeing with Kison here.

[shaft.ed]

im happy with either wagon still. please get them going.

your entire "pushing wagons without getting onboard" shtick is getting old.

I smell an ironic post!



and i disagree.

Que Pasa?
And could you not make your sig a half a page long?

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad's level of confidence makes this feel like a bus.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad's level of confidence makes this feel like a bus.

I agree with this service.

Bait and switch?

[shaft.ed]

I have no idea what PEG was trying to say.

[shaft.ed]

I have no idea what PEG was trying to say.

[shaft.ed]

Day 2 Starts

Day 2 has a deadline of ~24 days -- it will end no later than Friday May 23 8 PM EST.

Albert was pistol-whipped to death.

Albert

was a

Town Role-Blocker

.

Adel was chainsawed to death.

Adel

was a

Mafia Goon

.

Day 2 has begun.

Told you guys waiting till morning would clear that whole thing up. So yeah I have no idea where to go from here.

Elias how's bout some comments re: your ABR attacks yesterday?

[shaft.ed]

Rosso do you usually abstain from voting?

[shaft.ed]

wow that has to be a record. Thanks Xtoxm

who's camisade again?

[shaft.ed]

He claimed roleblocker (which he flipped) when he was pushed to L-3. I'd take a look at that wagon. Though it's obvious Adel was using Coolbot as part of it.

He appears to have been killed in a "mafia" style but I don't know if we want to make those inferences in a game that's supposed to break the meta. However, him fingering a Goon D1 would give credence to their desire to kill him.

[shaft.ed]

I can't put my finger on it, but Rosso and farside are sticking out to me. If I get a chance to read some, I'll see if they pan out.

[shaft.ed]

vote: Rosso Carne

[shaft.ed]

my vote is not random

[shaft.ed]

I stand by my ABR attacks. ABR is an idiot, and his play was suspicious. I'm curious as to why you're looking at me as opposed to players that were advocating the Coolbot lynch based on NOTHING. Thats who Ive got my eye on today, once I reread.

I was hoping you might respond to this...i dont understand why you attacked me and ignored the people on the coolbot wagon. Wagoning a townie to death is a lot more suspicious than attacking a player without success only to find after his nightkill that hes town. Please explain your actions.

Sorry I didn' realize you were waiting on a response. If you reread my post it wasn't an attack, and you even acknowledged that the first time you posted on the subject saying "looking at me" instead of "attacked me." I was more interested in your response than pointing a finger at you, I'm not sure where it falls at this point.

Did you have any luck finding something interesting on the Coolbot wagon?

[shaft.ed]

Surye, why so quiet every since your bandwagon died down? Are you trying to ride by on ABR townie cred?

[shaft.ed]

MM, just FYI Adel "mis"-voting is a common play for her. She does it purposefully.

[shaft.ed]

I find that insulting people tends to come from scum.

I think I could go with a Elias lynch.

Elias is generally abrasive

[shaft.ed]

I find that insulting people tends to come from scum.

I think I could go with a Elias lynch.

ZOMG SOMEONE WAS A MEANIE HE MUST BE SCUM....!!!!

Have to agree this seems a bit of a weak argument. What say you Tommy?

[shaft.ed]

I find that insulting people tends to come from scum.

I think I could go with a Elias lynch.

ZOMG SOMEONE WAS A MEANIE HE MUST BE SCUM....!!!!

Have to agree this seems a bit of a weak argument. What say you Tommy?

I say we kill PEG...

And he's contributing nothing, I don't care if he says he never does, it's not being helpful, he should die.

Hello Mr. Kettle, you're very black!
-

Pot

[shaft.ed]

I'm saying your contirbutions are just about as lacking as PEG's

[shaft.ed]

Ok. Well he's doing it on purpose, i'm not.

And atleast i'm attacking someone...

ya PEG,

What do you mean by 'on purpose' are you attempting to add content but your fingers can't type coherent sentences, or your mouse can't click the submit button?

[shaft.ed]

Well it was your opinion that I was not contributing, not mine.

Ok. Well he's doing it on purpose, i'm not.

Sounds like you're agreeing with my premise of non-contribution here.

[shaft.ed]

My stance here is based on no meta, btw.

Obviously

[shaft.ed]

Surye I'd like to know why you've developed lock jaw since the earlier portion of this game?

[shaft.ed]

wow two minutes impressive, got to think on that one

[shaft.ed]

Same goes for Xtoxm's predecessor, camiside. No attempt at scumhunting whatsoever.

I think that argument can be made for over half the players in this game. This is officially a lurkerfest. We need to decide on which lurker to wagon to victory. My votes on Rosso.

[shaft.ed]

Same goes for Xtoxm's predecessor, camiside. No attempt at scumhunting whatsoever.

I think that argument can be made for over half the players in this game. This is officially a lurkerfest. We need to decide on which lurker to wagon to victory. My votes on Rosso.

But there is a difference between not scumhunting and not posting, and posting but not scum hunting.

Camiside was doing the first, Xtoxm is doing the second. That just rubs me wrong.

I'm not getting a decent read on Xtoxm. From the ongoing game I've played with him (which I can't talk about specifics) his early day play appears poor and he comes off as not as bright as he is. I am keeping an eye on him however as his focus on PEG seems quite a bit off.

I guess I'd be happy to bandwagon Xtoxm if it would get things going.

[shaft.ed]

So that game of mafia we were playing...

[shaft.ed]

I'll come back to Rosso later if he actually posts anything.

unvote vote: Xtoxm

[shaft.ed]

My vote on Rosso was mostly meta. I read his games and noticed a slight trending behavior that differentiated town and scum.

The Gorrad thing is interesting as well.

Why of all of those points is Xtoxm the one that garners the vote?

[shaft.ed]

Ok, well, i'm an FBI agent and Rosso is not SK.

Your choice if you believe me or not.

Yay for premature claiming, did you feel the need to outdue Albert's D1 claim?

[shaft.ed]

oh and

unvote

[shaft.ed]

Any reason you didn't revert back to Rosso Carne?

Well I believe Xtoxm so that would indicate he's not the SK so less likely to be scum than anyone else in the game.

I'm mulling over Gorrad and trying to get up the motivation to reread the D1 bandwagons, but I'm keeping Rosso on the back burner for now.

[shaft.ed]

vote: Surye

[shaft.ed]

Sorry, but that last post felt very contrived. I'll get back to you after I read for Adel interactions.

[shaft.ed]

Happy to lynch either of PEG and Elias - Anyone else approve?

Hell yea! Let's come in a game, not give any fresh new opinions, then when not even close to a lynch claim or no reason!!!! zomg best replacement ever....

Do you have a game related point to make?

[shaft.ed]

While I usually find unforced premature claiming scummy, in an ongoing game Xtoxm's has done the same.

wouldn't it be funny if this was a totally NORMAL game

It would be funny, especially after Albert flipped roleblocker.

[shaft.ed]

I agree I think some Surye pressure would be helpful

[shaft.ed]

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

[shaft.ed]

Must get the will power to revive this thread. Must try harder...

I'm hoping to get some cogent posting in today. Don't know if it will happen.

[shaft.ed]

OK I actually got some reading in, and I found it quite interesting. So rereading I get the feeling Adel really though she could pull off that Surye wagon, or at least get a claim out of it. But it did end quite abruptly. What's interesting is that the new target at the end of the wagon was MM.

I have a feeling that one of MM or Surye is tied to Adel. Possibly Ecto/Gorrad but I think that would be too obvious.

[shaft.ed]

ok,

unvote, vote:Machiavellian-Mafia

putting him at -1 (probably) was a bad thing to do without the required warning.

This comment is interesting in hindsight. Also she only seems to have voted MM because Ecto aimed his wagon in that direction. Thus I find it less likely that Adel is associated with him. Possible that Adel and Ecto were a team but again would they be that obvious about it.

Finally it's interesting that Adel was fairly adamant in defending Surye against Coolbot's desire for a claim but simultaneously defending Coolbot from the lynch.

I think the connection still comes back to Surye but I'm less certain of it than before. I certainly wouldn't put it past Adel to hyper bus on D1 for the town cred.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad what do you think of Ecto?

Surye why do you think Adel gave up on your wagon when you were at L-1?

What do you think of MM's vote on you at that time?

[shaft.ed]

question 3?

[shaft.ed]

PEG is actually looking a little better to me with this recent comments...He should still not purposely contribute little though...

unvote vote Gorrad

I'm really not liking him atm.

Mind telling me why he hasn't posted much as of late (not that anyone has really). Just wondering where the "atm" comes in to play.

[shaft.ed]

I don't know if Ecto/Gorrad would have tied themselves that obviously to Adel. Maybe SK, but I don't know about mafia.

[shaft.ed]

I dunno what the heck Ecto was thinking if he tied himself to Adel at all. I found Adel scummy as heck, though, as I stated repeatedly end of d1, and if I was in his shoes I wouldn't have supported anything Adel did.

So why the coolbot hammer?

FoS

[shaft.ed]

Actually that's a good point Elias. Surye Coolbot was wagoned for call for a claim from you AFTER you wagon was over. How could his wagon have caused the demise of yours?

[shaft.ed]

What did Elias do again?

[shaft.ed]

It has not fallen out, it stands.

And you just generally look scummy to me.

That's the strongest case I've ever seen against someone [/sarcasm]

Xtoxm have you played with Elias before? If so what is some scummy relative to his usual play style?

[shaft.ed]

Yeh, I was vig and I NKed you but I found you scummy for different reasons.

Forgive me if this statement does not instill confidence in your judgement regarding Elias.

[shaft.ed]

So I'm OK with a Surye lynch. Possibly Xtoxm but I trend towards believing his roleclaim. Also OK with a lurker lynch.

[shaft.ed]

1. I would like Surye to claim
2. Vote: Xtoxm for now until the Surye wagon dissipates, in which case I will likely switch my vote to Elias.

Lulz

[shaft.ed]

Why are you voting for me? There is absolutley no point in claiming this role if i'm scum cos the SK would just kill me.

Infact, unless we lynch the SK today, I die tonight.

Unless you're the SK, we have a doc, or there is no SK.

OK I don't want Surye's partner to confirm his claim just yet, can let him live. I need to reread but I'd prefer a lurker lynch at this point. Xtoxm would be a possible substitute, I think he is playing a tad scummy but as I said I'm tending to believe his claim.

Need to get a read in today.

[shaft.ed]

I'm not very excited about a Tar lynch but I will go for it if push comes to shove.

I still need to get a read in. Hope I have the time/motivation before deadline.

[shaft.ed]

Hey Toaster, we're expecting more from you.

[shaft.ed]

Reading over Tar I'm more comfortable with his lynch today.

unvote vote Tarhalindur

[shaft.ed]

Tar has said he can clear himself, so running him up and forcing him to claim is only going to be a bad thing.

Tar, Xtoxm connection noted.

Tar, if Gorrad was derailing the Surye wagon with Adel's help, wouldn't that mean for Gorrad to be scum Surye would also have to be scum?

[shaft.ed]

Surye when did you start using code in mafia games?

[shaft.ed]

Surye when did you start using code in mafia games?

I thought code in that sense was to signal other members, this is just a one-way function to prove shared knowledge later.

If this is against the rules or sotg, I apologize and will correct it if I can, I just thought it was okay.

No it's just that Adel talks about code claiming quite often, was curious where it came from, that's all.

[shaft.ed]

In other news, shaft.ed just took a HUGE jump onto my scumdar for his new crypto tangent (which feels REALLY odd to me - it looks like an attack, but shaft.ed's heart doesn't seem to be in it... possible Information Instead of Analysis?). I need to do a fast read and compare his play here to his play in Open 57 (where he was scum).

I apologize for following a hunch. Would you rather me not contribute as it seems most others are more than willing to do?

Finally, as for shaft.ed's question: An Adel/Ecto scumpair could have derailed the Surye wagon for townie points.

How does one blatanly derail a wagon for townie points? If the wagon is derailed you only get the townie points when said townie is deceased. Seems a bit off to me.

I won't consider him completely clear unless I hear that the masons are confirmed innocent

Agreed, Surye did you not see this question? Please answer.

[shaft.ed]

can we get a DGB/TS prod please

[shaft.ed]

I'm personally not seeing the reasoning behind a Gorrad lynch. I don't think I will vote him unless it is the only way to prevent a no lynch.

MM why do you think he's a likely SK? That's a big stretch based off of a single comment in my eyes.

[shaft.ed]

L-2 = claim time. I'm an overeager vig. Must kill every night, cannot target self. I killed Adel. I stated much suspicion of her before night, and it payed off. That's why I don't believe Xtoxm. It's possible that there's a SK, but I highly doubt it. Scum would see that kill, assume SK, and claim accordingly. Simple, neh?

The fact that I'm claiming this also negates any allegations of my being partnered with Adel. If I was, then I could be counter-claimed. I won't be, therefore that bit of suspicion should be dropped immeadiately, thank you Tar.

Tar and Xtoxm are top of my list. If I survive today, I'll gaurantee one dead tomorrow (so you can be assured it's not a one-shot ability). Now, can we lynch Xtoxm please?

If your claim is truthful you should know that lynching Xtoxm is suboptimal. Also a SK investigator without a SK could make sense in this particular game.

[shaft.ed]

Tar I suggest you read iPick for a more valid town meta on me it's much more recent. Your suggestion that I post less content as scum is incorrect. My posting depth has decreased some with time on site however. Also you're wrong that House Mafia had no in depth analysis, and I have an ongoing as dead scum that contains lengthy posts.

I have to say that your outing yourself as Cop with one vote on the second day was incredibly daft. There was no need for that. Also if Gorrad is a SK why would he play this gambit? He's dead once Xtoxm flips.

Overall we know that one of the claimants is likely lying. But it also seems as though, like Adel and ABR yesterday, things are likely to sort out in the night phase. This means I'm likely not supporting a claimant lynch. Since there's a chance that Xtoxm is lying that means my concerns about Rosso are less likely to be relevant. Thus

unvote vote: Rosso

[shaft.ed]

EBWOP: sorry for all of the above likely's

[shaft.ed]

Surye, thanks for the analysis. That's pretty much what I've been seeing since my earlier vote on him.

[shaft.ed]

Can we please avoid a No lynch people?

[shaft.ed]

Welp I can see both Gorrad the vig and Gorrad the SK wanting to kill Xtoxm. Seems the town has the lynch to waste to test out mod shenanigans and Gorrad's self vote feels like an "a real SK wouldn't do that" type of ploy. I think I'd be OK with a Gorrad lynch. But would like to not string him up before everyone posts.

@TS, PEG where were you end of day yesterday when scum was being last minute quicklynched?

@Tar, why not investigate Gorrad? (I think I know but just checking)

[shaft.ed]

Note, if Tar had unvoted before the deadline, no-lynch and Rosso lynch would have been tied.

FOS: Tar

I don't think your math is right, and Not voting is not the same as No Lynching.

[shaft.ed]

@Tar, that's what I expected, just wanted to make sure you were sticking with the role you claimed yesterday.

Being meta-breaking mafia I am a bit concerned about Gorrad actually being a vig. But can anyone think of a way to test such an association? If he is town aligned he's like having an extra lynch per cycle.

Also Gorrad why kill Xtoxm last night? I understand it at face value, but being in a game title Meta Breaking Mafia you gotta wonder about the apparent liklihood of Guardian pairing an FBI agent with a focred vig. Why not just give him the night to investigate you? If he's town and your town end of problem. If he's lying we'll know once you flip.

[shaft.ed]

EBWOP: That first line above is not trying to imply I disbelieve Tar, I was simply very crudely testing his claim.

[shaft.ed]

I wouldn't consider it bastardmoddery as long as there are no disadvantages to the role -- it's basically a naive cop with no risk of getting an innocent read on a scum -- but I think Gorrad needs to get voted regardless of which he is, unless we want to just assume he's the SK and allow him to live so long as his kills are directed. Dunno if that would be a great idea though, though I tend to like that sort of risk-taking.

I actually like the directed kill idea. It's an extra lynch for the cycle basically. I say we keep Gorrad around for the time being and see if two candidates come up during the course of today. If not we lynch him.

[shaft.ed]

... 10 alive. 2 kills, 1 lynch, 7 alive. 2 kills, 1 lynch, 4 alive. If we let him live, we can do it for ONE day and one day only.

I agree we either come up with two candidates for today or lynch Gorrad.

[shaft.ed]

Well, we have plenty of time, so lets just go with the idea of finding two other candidates, and then if nothing presents it self clearly, or if more against Gorrad comes up, we can just lynch him. Either way we need more activity to move forward.

I say we examine those resistant to the Rosso lynch. Seems like a logical place to start.

[shaft.ed]

EBWOP: And in line with that idea,

Unvote

however, I would like to say I don't think Gorrad is a good person to keep alive, but if we lynch someone tonight, he'll be just as likely to hit scum as we will at night as a townie, and we can lynch him tomorrow. My only fear is if he is an SK, he knows even if he follows the night kill directive tonight, he must die tomorrow, so I don't know if it's in his best interest to try to hit town or mafia if he doesn't follow it. My guess is he would follow it for sure on the off chance someone pushes the vig idea again, so letting him live risks that if he is an SK.

It's a hard call. But what I've come down to is this, in any case, he will follow the directed kill (most likely) and he must die tomorrow on policy. Or we could lynch him today and not risk a double town kill.

Meh I don't know Gorrad's play very well, but if he's a SK his only miniscule chance of winning is to perform a directed kill. I also still leave about a 10-15% chance that he is in fact a pro-town vig, in which case he would abide by the town's judgement or perhaps take a shot in the dark if he feels the consensus wrong.

[shaft.ed]

Elias was in fact away from the site over that period. I wouldn't use conspiracy theories, though general concerns are valid.

Tar has obvious mechanistic reasons for being believalbe as town.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad[1] (

Toaster Strudel

)
Xtoxm[1] (

pickemgenius

)
shaft.ed[1] (Tarhalindur)


Not Voting[3]: (

the silent speaker

, Rosso Carne,

elias_the_thief

)

OK given that I believe Tar, and Rosso is dead. the bolded players above need to go under the microscope. I think good odds on scum being amongst those four.

[shaft.ed]

and I choose the silent speaker

vote: the silent speaker

[shaft.ed]

and I choose the silent speaker

vote: the silent speaker

Hmm... any particular motivation? I see his isolated posts makes up less then a page, so I may do another full rundown in a bit tonight.

I'd like to see if anyone else sees what I'm seeing before I tell you my reasoning.

[shaft.ed]

The tell for the silent speaker is much more in what he didn't say than what he did.

[shaft.ed]

PEG, you've seen me as scum in WEM Mafia. Do you honestly believe that I'd claim what I did as a SK? No. I'd claim something outlandish, cool, and a lot less obvious than Overeager Vig.

oh hi.

it appears you've talked to me.

I would think that you are clever enough to do either one.



p.s. you were cult in WEM

I might consider lynching PEG. The sheer purity of his uselessness is bordering on an art form.

And Elias please try harder, your performance has been weak today.

[shaft.ed]

Besides, the "keep Gorrad alive, one day only" plan which you're now endorsing was my idea. If I were scum, would I have lost anything by keeping my mouth shut?

I can concede that point, although it's likely one we might have arrived at eventaully without your input.

What I'd like to know is why did you not put up a post during the Rosso bandwagon?

[shaft.ed]

What I'd like to know is why did you not put up a post during the Rosso bandwagon?

Because it built up on a Friday afternoon.

And you have two posts on site in the thick of it with nothing here if I'm not mistaken.

[shaft.ed]

I think Kison may have outed himself with that slip up.

FOS Kison

[shaft.ed]

Yeah, I kinda spaced too ><. Sorry, mind's still reeling a bit from three days of con.

In other new, 901 SUCKS.

Unvote, Vote: shaft.ed

I find it a bit of a coincidence that he makes a case against Tar right after your vote.

[shaft.ed]

there's a reason it's just a FoS. Over-offense noted.

[shaft.ed]

I'm so sorry for insulting you by pointing out a scum motiviation for your play. Will you ever forgive me?

[shaft.ed]

Anyway, shafty, I'm not exactly crying, here. It's more that what you're suggesting is so outrageous that you honestly can't believe I'd try to do that unless you thought I was a complete idiot, which would be insulting. I think you're just mull headed and didn't think it through!

You know I <3 you though.

No I did think it through. The big lie is the easiest one to pull off because no one thinks the liar would be capable of such a thing. Just because something is overtly scummy doesn't mean someone wouldn't do it.

[shaft.ed]

What would my motivation be? Trick everyone and hope they all forgot that he claimed cop?

Your motiviation is that you forgot he was the cop and you saw support for suspicion in the previous post.

[shaft.ed]

Then if I legitimately forgot, what then would be my "big lie"?

the cover up

[shaft.ed]

Your logic is contradicting itself. What would my cover up be? Claiming that I forgot about the role claim. Yet the condition is "if I legitimately forgot" about the role claim. How can I legitimately forget and be lying about forgetting at the same time?

The lie is this indignation on the fainting couch that anyone should suspect you for making the slip up in the first place.

[shaft.ed]

Anyway, shafty, I'm not exactly crying, here. It's more that what you're suggesting is so outrageous that you honestly

can't believe I'd try to do that

unless you thought I was a complete idiot, which would be insulting. I think you're just mull headed and didn't think it through!

You know I <3 you though.

No I did think it through. The big lie is the easiest one to pull off because no one thinks the liar would be capable of such a thing. Just because something is overtly scummy doesn't mean someone wouldn't do it.

Bah, it's an improper analogy to the situation. I blame your bolded portion. It's clear from my first post using the phrase "slip up" that I did not think you were actually trying to lynch the cop. I pointed out that you were piling on suspicion to a player that had just been accused, in a rather sloppy fashion since he was the claimed cop.

And since when did FoS's become such a big deal to you? You're pushing on that FoS as if it were an L-2 vote.

[shaft.ed]

And since when did FoS's become such a big deal to you? You're pushing on that FoS as if it were an L-2 vote.

Well, like I said, your FoS seems fairly hefty because of the line proceeding it, and I don't get that since I don't view what I did as very indicative of me being scum. Mildly suspicious, perhaps.

I

think

Kison

may

have outed himself with that slip up.

Did you not notice the double quilifier usage? I certainly wasn't saying "lynch Kison now he's obv scum." I found it curious you could get a detailed post like that up, but overlook the simple fact he claimed cop. Not notable in and of itself but following a similar errant vote before it, I felt you were building on what you perceived as momentum.

[shaft.ed]

In the interest of moving things along

unvote vote: Elias

[shaft.ed]

TS is a much better wagon IMO

uvote, vote:ToasterStrudel

[shaft.ed]

TS is a much better wagon IMO

uvote, vote:ToasterStrudel

I can live with that, she jumped on the Elias wagon without a word, and I already stated that I find her scum-likely. Maybe this will get us some answers (but I would like to return to Elias at some point, I don't want him to get off that easy).

Unvote, Vote: ToasterStrudel

I agree, but DGB has been more active across site than Elias so her lurking is less obliged.

[shaft.ed]

FOS: Toaster Strudel

Consider this the equivalent of a vote that doesn't want to hammer until Toaster has had a chance to respond.

wow I didn't realize how quickly she made it to L-1. DGB/TS why are you avoiding this thread?

[shaft.ed]

Meh I know I didn't handle Kison's retort well. I was shooting off the comment liek that to see if he would fuddle with it, or get overly defensive. I haven't been able to discern much from the reaction other than Kison has some teeth on him. I still think the act itself is a mild scum tell however.

I'm also going to

unvote

as I do not want an accidental hammer without having decided Gorrad's target for the day.

[shaft.ed]

I did a reread on my top 3 suspects and I view PEG in a more positive light now. So I like TS lynch + Gorrad killing Elias.

At this moment in time I agree with the TS + Elias, but considering Elias has said he's got RL problems I'd much rather he actually get some posting up in thread. TS/DGB's posting level across site also seems to be down, but I've seen her on enough to get some comments up in this game. I'm most comfortable with lynching/vig'ing her at the moment.

[shaft.ed]

One thing I should say, even if I was SK'd I'd be scumhunting.

This is true, and in fact some elements of the voting record make me a bit more suspicious of shaft.ed, but I think they should be discussed in open forum tomorrow rather than making a unilateral decision on him. Better to vig Kison, I think, if Elias is being ruled out for limited access reasons, and if the combined deaths of TS and Kison don't end the game we will be able to judge shaft.ed on a firmer footing over your (Gorrad's) lynchday.

When did Kison get added to the short list?

[shaft.ed]

Lack of activity makes shaft.ed a sad panda.

[shaft.ed]

If y'all can't agree on a target for me to vig tonight, I'm targetting Shaft.ed. If you don't want me to, better start coming up with names.

I do not endorse this product and/or service.

[shaft.ed]

TS and Elias have both been avoiding the thread (along with PEG). But Elias and PEG have both given RL reasons for avoiding the thread. TS is usually an active player and is still posting on site but crawls out of the woodwork close to deadline to finally defend herself. To me that rates as more scummy.

My three player list is:
1) TS
2) Elias
3) TSS

Also losing MM or PEG wouldn't break my heart.


I have to ask you Gorrad where are you getting the idea I am scum? I've been one of the few people participating in this game and ran a last minute lynch on scum yesterday.

[shaft.ed]

Sorry guys I've been pretty busy.

I should have a bit more time next week.

Sorry TS, but this is the only post in thread I've seen from you on May 27th talking about being busy. I didn't remember that so I should cut you some slack. But even still it puts you on level ground with Elias as far as inactivity goes.

And in case you didn't notice Elias is #2 right after you on my list. That would mean we lynch you and Gorrad kills Elias. I'm not protecting him.

[shaft.ed]

And in case you didn't notice Elias is #2 right after you on my list. That would mean we lynch you and Gorrad kills Elias. I'm not protecting him.

Spoken like scumbag.

Kill the townie, then roleblock or kill the vig. Your buddy Elias is still alive.

Swapping the order of actions wouldn't bother me.

[shaft.ed]

Anyone want to actually present a case on me?

Think it mostly boils down to you defending both of the dead scum.

[shaft.ed]

Elias I'd agree with you on Tar, but the game situation largely indicates he is a genuine cop.

I also agree that I'm not liking TSS a whole lot either. What's the difference in TS's lurking and TSS's lurking however?

[shaft.ed]

Yeah, I know but he still strikes me as scum =/ Maybe my scumdars off or maybe hes played geniusly.

No I've turned off my Tar scumdar for now. If there wasn't a lack of a NK I'd be more suspicious since I didn't really expect a Cop in this game.

[shaft.ed]

EBWOP: Not just the cop claim against him. That wasn't clear in the above.

[shaft.ed]

Of those, we know that Surye, Tar, Gorrad, and PEG are not the last mafiae. I know that I'm not, and I surmise that Mach is not, which leaves four people, three of them named above. (The fourth, shaft.ed, is one I want to save for tomorrow and the next day*, because I feel there is a significant case waiting to be made and it deserves a full day's attention.) On the basis of game size I posit that there are two remaining mafiae, so the deaths of two will either expose the last two as obvious, or reveal which person the last scum was defending which in turn will enable a sounder case against that scum.

Where do you get PEG and Surye being cleared? Sure Surye claimed mason but he hasn't posted whether his partner, and thus himself, is a confirmed innocent. And yes PEG hinted at being his partner but I never saw a genuine claim. Did I miss something?

[shaft.ed]

All rightie. No reason to kill TS then.

I'd prefer either a Elias/TSS combo or just lynching Gorrad.

Might consider MM, but I've got to reread him for that.

[shaft.ed]

OK rereading MM there were some odd instances around the deadline yesterday.

First there is this post. It comes at a time where Surye is being wagoned.

After rereading, I find Rosso's play to be just as bad as PEG's. He always seemed to push for certain players' lynches without backing them up with votes. FOS: Rosso

I also revisited the derailment of the Surye wagon, and I find some validity in the Adel/Surye connection. Adel first derails that wagon by subtly complying with ABR's request of "we should all lower our guns", then immediately switches to me for the misrepresented reason of "putting him at L-1" when my vote was L-2. After that Adel fakes re-voting Surye, as if to paint the picture he is trying to undo the derailment. Then the CoolBot wagon gained strength with Adel hopping onto that as well, and Adel rarely if ever mentioned Surye again.

Thus,

Unvote, Vote: Surye

. I believe that's L-2.

So this could easily be seen as classic FoS your partner vote the townie play.

But then once Surye claims mason MM has a different set of secondary suspects:

I currently buy Surye's claim, because as others have said, his partner can confirm him. With the deadline coming up soon I will reread specifically at Tar and to a lesser extent Ecto/Gorrad since they seem to be the two most likely lynches to happen today. I will reach a decision later today.

This post becomes a Gorrad vote once his wagon gets moving.

Then he comes in at the very end of the Rosso wagon to add his vote.

I can go with the plan regarding Gorrad and Xtoxm. I also have no problem with a Rosso lynch, as I have expressed suspicion before and Surye made some valid analysis. I believe this vote will be the 6th vote, or L-1:

Unvote, Vote: Rosso

The only thing I don't like about the MM prospect is that he's gone until Wed, is that after the deadline would hit? Not a big fan of lynching someone that can't defend themselves especially with all the times we've been trying to run up power roles in this game.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad please get a post up so we can confirm you are willing to NK a selected target.

If not I will deadline vote Gorrad. If he is not able to be lynched, I will deadline vote whoever is that is not a claimed power role.

Everyone voting for TS please unvote.

[shaft.ed]

gotta love the participation.

mod second the request for a vote count.

[shaft.ed]

looking at the math an Elias lynch looks like the only option.

Gorrad I wouldn't be upset with a TSS or MM or Kison (dependent on Elias' alignment) NK to be honest. I don't know what the rest of the town thinks, but I think you're correct that TSS has more of a consensus.

vote: Elias

[shaft.ed]

The only thing I don't like about the MM prospect is that he's gone until Wed, is that after the deadline would hit? Not a big fan of lynching someone that can't defend themselves especially with all the times we've been trying to run up power roles in this game.

You list as a vig-able target, but don't want to lynch him, because he cannot defend himself? This really doesn't sit well with me. :/ Explain please?

I think he's just as likely as TSS to be scum. There's more evidence against him than TSS, it's just he happens to be VLA at deadline. I think those balance eachother out.

[shaft.ed]

(note: this is partially because of the comment about my lynch being the only possible one thanks to math. WTF shafted, i thought you were a smarter player than that)

I'd personally flip to Kison over you. I have a feeling that one of you two is scum but I don't see the votes for him materializing. We have like 2 or 3 hours and it's just me and Surye posting right now. How are we going to get the votes? And why vote me if Kison is the scum?

[shaft.ed]

(note: this is partially because of the comment about my lynch being the only possible one thanks to math. WTF shafted, i thought you were a smarter player than that)

I'd personally flip to Kison over you. I have a feeling that one of you two is scum but I don't see the votes for him materializing. We have like 2 or 3 hours and it's just me and Surye posting right now. How are we going to get the votes? And why vote me if Kison is the scum?

What makes you think one of us is scum? Reasons. Quotes. Explanation.

Bah I'm getting confused and having buyers remorse. I really hate deadlines that are hurried and fall on the afternoons following my overnight experiments. Rereading Kison (rather quickly) he is clearly more protown than Elias. The Elias TSS plan made sense when I had a clearer head. I think sticking with that is a good choice.

[shaft.ed]

Also Surye I never saw if this was clarified, but on the off chance that you or your partner end up dead, were you mod-confirmed innocents to eachother?

[shaft.ed]

I'll make sure to send in a protect on Tarhalindur, but I'll be dead tomorrow.

Your death...will be avenged.

[shaft.ed]

Also Surye I never saw if this was clarified, but on the off chance that you or your partner end up dead, were you mod-confirmed innocents to eachother?

This is the fourth time I have replied to this And no, we are not mod-confirmed. My role says that I believe him to be town, but do not know for sure.

Can you just put that in your sig or something?

[shaft.ed]

Vote: Elias

Gorrad: Kison

Lol, I bet youre voting me because I'm too defensive. Or too abrasive. I ahte this site so much

Elias sorry if you're town, but if you are you've fallen into a bucketload of scummy circumstances. You've been on the wrong side of two dead scum. I realize this is your townie playstyle and am not voting you for your abrasion, in fact it makes me much less sure about the choice, but I think you are the proper play given the circumstances.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad, if you kill me, when I come up town I want you to push shaft.ed. Push him hard, since I will no longer be able to.

you don't want to continue with the plan to lynch the player you thought to be the SK that we should mathematically be rid of tommorow?

[shaft.ed]

I realize this is your townie playstyle and am not voting you for your abrasion, in fact it makes me much less sure about the choice, but I think you are the proper play given the circumstances.

If you know this is my town playstyle why the fuck are you voting me...? If by circumstances you mean your PM says scum then sure.

That's our Elias I'm pretty sure you know it's your town playstyle too.

[shaft.ed]

MM is LA, Tar is LA and Gorrad seems logged off.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad could you either flat out say who you are going to kill or at least post a couple names so that Tar does not waste his investigation?

Elias if you're a dying townie could you put up a quick scumlist/townlist or something of that nature?

[shaft.ed]

Intersting night...
I guess Gorrad's still the lynch unless Tar got a guilty.

Is the proper time for claims tommorow?

[shaft.ed]

Good luck town, you'll need it, the way youre going.

we love you too elias

[shaft.ed]

Also forgot to thank Adel for taking on the back up job.

Thanks!

[shaft.ed]

Chew gum
Chew gum
Chew gum gum
Gum gum gum

Chew gum
Chew gum
Chew gum gum gum

[shaft.ed]

Chew gum
Chew gum
Chew gum gum
Gum gum gum

Chew gum
Chew gum
Chew gum gum gum

Another fan of The Residents.

http://www.lyricstime.com/the-residents ... yrics.html

Nah, you posted that in Adel's Nightmare. Just passin time waiting on all the lurkers.

[shaft.ed]

OK, I'd prefer a popcorn claim, Tar or Surye to chose first claimant who I would prefer to be MM.

[shaft.ed]

PEG seems to be the only non-claimed player. I am willing to go before or after him, though it seems pretty obvious what his claim will be.

[shaft.ed]

PEG seems to be the only non-claimed player. I am willing to go before or after him, though it seems pretty obvious what his claim will be.

You go first

Well since I'm certain PEG's claiming mason, I'll go first and assert my vanilla townie goodness.

[shaft.ed]

PEG seems to be the only non-claimed player. I am willing to go before or after him, though it seems pretty obvious what his claim will be.

You go first

Well since I'm certain PEG's claiming mason

, I'll go first and assert my vanilla townie goodness.

I don't like your wording here. Anyone else find the bolded bit pretty scummy?

How so? It's the only claim left, and we've both been bread crumbing it.

[shaft.ed]

Is it me or does it seem like having too much discussion today would give the mafia more information than they need?

Seems like once PEG claims. MM does his day-cop. Then we move into night.

Unless we feel the need to discuss MM's target. But it seems like discussion could just allow the mafia to kill into WIFOM or remove someone perceived as more pro-town.

[shaft.ed]

Also with two possible cops I think Tar should claim his results before the days end?

[shaft.ed]

The key scummy word is 'since'. 'Since he is claiming mason, I'm claiming townie'. That implies that there would be something OTHER than townie that he could claim.

Don't worry, I know I'm the lynch. Just wanted that out there.

No the Since refers to when I will claim. Since I know what PEG is claiming...I will go first.

[shaft.ed]

can we get a PEG prod, he's back to active on site.

[shaft.ed]

Surye has PEG been at all active as a mason partner?

[shaft.ed]

why is having PEG around so much like not having PEG around?

[shaft.ed]

Vote: Gorrad

Lets not lose sight. I know that we have a couple things to do today, but I'm getting this ball rolling.

Quick question for Tar, is there any reason to believe you are definitely not naive? You might have said you got a guilty, but I don't remember.

Quite the opposite: I'm assuming I am Naive until proven otherwise.

Surviving innocents: Toaster Strudel (should NOT have investigated her in retrospect), shaft.ed

MM, would you mind investigating Surye? If there's a scum in the Masons (which I consider increasingly probable), he's probably it.

I want the results of MM's daycop before we head into night. No vote for now for exactly that reason.

Any reason you'd pick me over PEG?

That's a rather good question actually.

[shaft.ed]

TS, looking at his list he may have investigated me last night and you the night before since I'm at the end of the list.

I can see the scum leaving you alive. You have some instances of fakeclaiming power roles as a vanilla townie so they might have gambled on that, or been trying to set up WIFOM. Hell I was 50% expecting to see you dead as a vanilla townie on daybreak.

I see Surye's contradiction, but don't think it means much.

[shaft.ed]

Gorrad is not Mafia but has to be lynched, TS is confirmed innocent.

Shaft.ed, you say the contradiction means nothing, but he continues with it, and attempts to make game altering assertions using that contradiction.

I'm not accusing Tar, I'm just not liking a string of really poor plays by him. And the metabreaking aspect of this game has not slipped my mind, and a day cop instead of a night cop would fit that, and no one would counterclaim. It's not impossible.

That said, I have no reason not to trust TS, and am pretty convinced she's who she says she is.

I know what you're talking about, but there are other reasons for trusting Tar as town. I'd rather talk about them at the dawn of the new day so mafia do not have an optimal target this evening.

[shaft.ed]

MM did you send your investigation to Guardian or Adel?

If Guardian, you have to resumbit it to Adel. If so could you please change the target to PEG? I think Surye is more likely town.

[shaft.ed]

@shaft.ed: I already investigated PEG yesterday, and I did send it in to Adel.

My result on Surye is again mafia/guilty. Since now I have 4 of the same results, I'm taking the paranoid sanity as equally possible as insane. And paranoid daycop would definitely fit as meta-breaking.

Bah reading is tech

Gorrad I've already stated I'd rather not let the mafia have any indication of what we do or don't know about what they're doing going into tonight. I think a quick day is in the town's interest.

[shaft.ed]

OK I'm ready to move on. Anyone else have something critical to say before we lynch Gorrad?

[shaft.ed]

vote Gorrad

[shaft.ed]

Speaking of Twilight

candy cane walks down
to build a bonfie, to break my fall
my baby, my sweet thing
just maybe we could lose ourselves this time
king of the horseflies, dark prince of death
his tragic forces are heaven sent
in sweet things, in a lovers breath
in knowing this was meant to be the last
a go-go-kids, a go-go-style
a suck suck kiss, a suck suck smile
as always, in young need
a velied promise to never die
on dead highways, her black beauties roam
for june angels, so far from home
for a love lost, a faded picture
to tread lightning, to ink the lavender skies
so get on the bomb
get back where you belong

[shaft.ed]

Allrighty then. So I think Tar's Cop claim followed by the lack of a NK follwed by a Doc claim indicates either Tar is a Cop or the scum did not NK in order to make Tar look like a cop. Comments on which would be appreciated.

If Tar is a townsided cop (which I find highly likely) that means we have either MM fakeclaiming paranoid daycop with a scum-mason, or we have two of the ballsiest scum I've ever seen claiming a mason pair with MM being a real paranoid daycop. I tend to lean the former.

[shaft.ed]

I'm leaning Tar on this one. If scum didn't skip the kill they'd be celebrating a win right now and not in LyLo. Skipping kills is not a bright strategy here. On the otehr hand after losing two scum it might have been the only way to stay alive.

Also reading over his claim again it was very much unprovoked. I am a bit cautious that in a game like this one might suspect a Cop to be absent. I need to reread MM reaction to Tar's claim. I would expect it to be rather incredulous.

[shaft.ed]

OK I've been thinking about this over the weekend and I believe that lynching between the masons is the correct play. If Tar and MM were scum partners, Tar's guilty would not be placed on MM as a bus, but would instead be used in an attempt to take out the last townie in LyLo. Thus one of the masons must be scum.

PEG would you care log'ing in to tell us which of the masons is scum?

Mod can we get a PEG prod/replacement please?

[shaft.ed]

I trust Tar a bit more than MM at the moment. MM has been growing on me however.

[shaft.ed]

I trust you more than PEG, but I have nothing to go on with PEG.

[shaft.ed]

Also, I should note now that 1) a recheck indicates only a partial meta on PEG (town only), and 2) at this point, I disagree with shaft.ed - in no small part because, if there's two surviving scum, I think he's one of them.

So investigated innocent trumps scum mason then? Which mason(s) have you investigated again?

And my major point was the MM and yourself are not scum together. From my perspective it is obvious there must be a scum mason, and it is quite likely one of yourself and MM are lying.

[shaft.ed]

Is PEG always this useful?

MM how'd your investigation go last night?

[shaft.ed]

I thought MM was a day cop, a paranoid day cop for that matter... At least by his claim.

you weren't supposed to say anything. It was a poor trap to test his claim.