Mini 586 - Blood Red Mafia - Game Over!

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

/confirm also pm confirm

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

random

FOS:babyshamble

May as well start with mild accusations, accusations nonetheless.

On my name: werewolves are a completely different breed.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

BabyShamble, you alone remain silent. Hopefully the conclusion of the weekend will help promote your involvement. Else what shall be done, my random FOS may advance to a vote.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Vote: Travis

You seem to be too quiet for comfort. I would vote Babyshamble for this, but I will wait to see response to the MOD PROD. You on the other hand are nearly in the same boat of silence.

As for calf19, I do not see a large connection with the little that has been said. My concern is that Coheed has three votes on him, and you have none. Who is watching your back out of the three of them?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Vote: Travis

You seem to be too quiet for comfort. I would vote Babyshamble for this, but I will wait to see response to the MOD PROD. You on the other hand are nearly in the same boat of silence.

As for calf19, I do not see a large connection with the little that has been said. My concern is that Coheed has three votes on him, and you have none. Who is watching your back out of the three of them?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Sorry for the double post, it was a computer glitch.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Protection is an overstatement. There is no possible protection to be had at this point in the conversation. The scumtales are just not out and about yet. But, the "joke votes" can be a collaboration to by one scum voting, and the other scum pointing. No one has stepped up to vote caf19 and he is the one calling out the biggest fuss.

Darla has a good question

I would like to know tho, Amor, why you are coming to Caf's defense?

We see your response. Caf will have his response too and the discussion progresses.

(Turn to Travis) I am still waiting to hear from you.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Welcome back to the game

populartajo

. Look, I did not get on your case for being silent because you had the courtesy to inform us of your absence. Everyone has been bantering back and forth about this, that, and the other. I felt that it was equally important to spark the involvement of the two who had nothing to say. Who, by the way, are still silent. Their lack of speaking does not help us know their allegiances.

Caf

, I understand that you cannot control who votes are cast on you. With Coheed saying:

Caf does have a point, It's not like he has some super ability to control who people vote for, he only controls his vote.

I am starting to see some mutual effort between the two of you to lean towards each other. He is sticking up for you by that comment. You previously tried to relieve the vote count from him by accusing his voters of teaming up when you said:

What's up with this teaming-up of Rosso and Darla?

Unvote; vote: Rosso Carne

obv

.

FOS Caf/Coheed

However, I am still not willing to put my vote on Coheed. He already has 3. But, I am close to changing my vote to you. Meanwhile, I still want to hear from Travis and Babyshamble. Enough silence is enough . We need to stimulate them into speaking too.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

First, I want to clarify for Coheed what you have miss stated. You said:

Um shepherd, I wasn't looking out for Caf, It's a completely honest statement that I could make about anyone. The only vote you, or I, or anyone can control is our own vote.

I don't see how your already willing to put 4 votes on me.

I never said that I was willing to put 4 votes on you. Rather, I said:

FOS Caf/Coheed

However,

I am still

not

willing to put my vote on Coheed.

He already has 3. But, I am close to changing my vote to you. Meanwhile, I still want to hear from Travis and Babyshamble. Enough silence is enough . We need to stimulate them into speaking too.

I am not fully convinced that you are not one or both scum. But, I too realize that the small link I suggested is not compelling evidence either. At this point, it is difficult to see who really is scum. I am not convinced that anyone looks innocent. However, I know that most of us are and only a few are scum.

Caf, I did not vote you for two reasons. First, as I clearly stated:

But, I am close to changing my vote to you.

Meanwhile, I still want to hear from Travis and Babyshamble. Enough silence is enough . We need to stimulate them into speaking too.

The second reason I did not change my vote is because I have no need to vote hop, when I can state my observations and wait to hear your response and the village response.

Consistant with my interests, I would like to see Travis continue to participate in the conversation. The less people talk, the slower the game moves. We all have to contribute. And I fully anticipate that riceballtail will converse.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Further, I did not realize while writing my post Darla removed her vote, so I did not calculate her vote removal.

Amor I want to address what you said

Shepherd_of_Wolves is pushing the caf/Coheed connection hard. caf has a point in that he doesn't control who he votes for, but

in Shepherd's reply to him he doesn't really respond to that

and instead goes off on something completely different. In any case, I don't think scum would openly defend each other so early.

If you read post 59 you will see that I did reply to him as such:

Caf

, I understand that you cannot control who votes are cast on you.

.

Let me say, he is right that he has no control. But, scum have an image to play. They know each other and definitely influence the voting of fellow scum. No, he cannot control the vote, but

if

he is scum, he has influence.

I want to emphasize the "if", because it looks like some people overlook important words when reviewing the script. I hold that I am not yet convinced either way on anyone person yet.[/u]

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Okay, so I have come off a little aggressive. Partly, this has to do with the fact that I have only attempted one other game before; which I did not have time to finish. I never made it past day 1 (due to RL, I was replaced). So, my sense of what phases occur at what times in the game is sketchy. Further, I am discovering what is appropriate for each phase. In full, I am still just making game strategy as I go along.

Before everyone assumes that I have gone off the deep end in accusations, let me remind you that I did state that I do not think that my approach elicits the most convincing evidence when I said:

I am not fully convinced that you are not one or both scum. But, I too realize that the small link I suggested is not compelling evidence either. At this point, it is difficult to see who really is scum. I am not convinced that anyone looks innocent. However, I know that most of us are and only a few are scum.

Moving on, I have two items to address. And, they may be aggressive, but I want to say them nonetheless. First, I second Macavenger in requesting an explanation from malthusis, why are you worried about sounding "more scummy right now". Did you want it to wait until later?

FoS:Malthusis

Attention, I am not changing my vote yet. (I think that I do not need to change my vote with every suspicious behavior.

NOTICE

, I do inquire into each suspicion that I preceive.)

With that explained I ask,

Travis

, what are your thoughts about the developments at this point. Beyond just saying you "haven't come to any great conclusion", what are you thinking is happening? We do not need to have our

conclusions

totally figured out. Those come after thinking, discussing, and considering together as a village.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

first, unvote.

I gave an FoS because I thought that a vote on someone

would

sound

more scummy

right now then a FoS.

Interesting choice of words. Why are you so concerned with what might sound scummy?

I was so worried about

looking

scummy

because at the time (bottom of pg.2)

no one else

had really

done

any scummy things

. I realize now it might not have been the best move (hey, I'm no expert) but that was the

best move in my mind

at the time.


Vote: Macavenger pressure time![/b]

Attention!

We simply cannot pass these statements up. This is blatantly obvious that he is SUPER worried about his APPEARANCE. Only foul people worry about their appearance. He does not want to "sound" or

be caught

"looking" scummy. And that is exactly what he has done. Malthusis, you, of most people, are "looking" like and very much "sound" like scum. Well, Malthusis, you have "done" the "scummy things".

Unvote: Travis; Vote: Malthusis

Now, this does not clean my palate with Travis, but more than adequate evidence compels me to vote for Malthusis.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Love the developments. Now, I think we may be getting somewhere in the game. I have more to say, but it will come this afternoon. I have a deadline with one school project today. But, after it is in, I will say my piece. I just want to let you know that I am still in the game and will present my thoughts soon.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill? Yea his statements are suspect but just because one is nervous doesn't automatically make them scum in my book. Hell if i had 3 votes I would be nervous too. No one wants to get killed, cos no one wants to lose.

Recount the votes. Before I voted Malthusis he had 2 votes. Since I have voted, making it 3, he has only said one pointless thing. All of his suspect comments were prior to 3 votes.

I am wondering why you are so dead set and over zealously hunting SoW. To me that says a SK or a Scum, or it could just an excited townie, I dunno but I think we need to focus more on solid scumtells like Mac's semantics and dodging than we do what some otherwise townie seeming poster's reactions are to being bandwagoned.

again if Mac can convince me otherwise of his scummy/not scummy-ness, and I see more scumtells from Malth, I just might vote for him, but not yet. I am not convinced.

Again, Malthusis was under no duress, no "bandwagon". If you are defending him, you should correctly defend him. Show us how he has credibility. I would prefer for him to show some too.

I am inclined to think he scum at this moment. It does not take long to evaluate what Malthusis has said so far. He has 8 super short posts. Here are some things to consider:

1) None of his posts have any substance.
2) He is excessively worried about "looking" and "sounding" scummy.
3) His reason for worrying was "

because

at the time (bottom of pg.2) no one else had really done any scummy things". His reason does not convey a feeling of innocence.
4) He has jumped in voting & FoS (again, with no substance to his shifting). His voting pattern is as follows:
a)vote: Mac
b)vote: Coheed
c)min FoS: Amor
d)maj FoS: Mac
e)vote: Mac (pressure time!)
What reason has he given?
5) He quickly jumps on the bandwagon when others have lead (not taking his own initiative), having no real explanation for his reason for joining, and on the person who was his main accuser (OMGUS is his only explanation to bring it to 4 votes).

I am accused of being too interested in scum hunting. I have very clear and reasonable explanations for my vote. I would like to know why I should remove my vote from Malthusis. I just I am not convinced that it is his townie/newbie anxiety. Malthusis, you have the opportunity to explain yourself. In this last post, you totally overlooked my concerns and inquiries. For the sake of town, if you are innocent, please give some indication.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

1)Populartajo attack on Mac & defense of Malthusis

A) Possibly. But it's far more likely to catch scum.

Why? Because eager townies are scum too?

Of course they aren't. Eager townies are more likely to respond with questions, trying to figure out the motives of odd behavior, rather than with near OMGUS levels of suspicion.

Whats the problem with Malthusis reacting with an OMGUS? Its pretty possible that a townie could have reacted like that because again, the only thing you did was post : "Vote: Malthusis" with no explanation at all. Again, he could be scum, I know that someone will come up with : oh, god he's so defending him, but my point is that his reactions dont prove anything and make wonder abour your reasoning, Macavenger. Seriously.

populartajo starts the whole, "anyone can react to your technique".

Macavenger responded:

I gave an FoS because I thought that a vote on someone would sound more scummy right now then a FoS.

Interesting choice of words. Why are you so concerned with what might sound scummy?

About reactions, it seems to me that everyone can react differently, they're helpful, I know, but they dont prove anything.

When did I ever say I thought it proved anything? The only real proof in mafia comes with death.

Further, he explained:

I was testing a theory that you seemed a bit jumpy in your responses to stuff flying around in the random voting stage.
You just flunked the test. Badly. And get to keep the vote as a result.

Why did he flunk the test? For being jumpy? What does his reaction prove?

He was jumping way too hard at shadows in the random voting stage, and tossing way more suspicion around than events warranted. A second vote in the random voting stage is virtually meaningless. I agree that my method of putting it on was slightly suspicious; that was intentional. Questioning why I voted in that matter is perfectly legitimate. Even throwing a normal FoS in with it probably would be. Calling it "extremely bad" and throwing a "major FoS" without asking for any clarification first is someone reading a lot more into a page 2 vote than they should be. This is more likely to come from scum, because scum have more to lose from being lynched than town does.

A) Possibly. But it's far more likely to catch scum.

Why? Because eager townies are scum too?

Of course they aren't. Eager townies are more likely to respond with questions, trying to figure out the motives of odd behavior, rather than with near OMGUS levels of suspicion.

B) Reactions are what this game is all about. Scum are more likely to overreact because they have more to lose by dying than a townie does.

No, scum can simply ignore you and a townie can overreact to an acussation because duh, you're accusing of something he or she is not.. My point is that although reactions are helpful, your "test" doesnt prove who's scum or who's not.

Sure, those things could happen. It's just less likely. I never said it proved anything. I saw something on page 2 that I thought was worth looking into. I looked into it, and the reaction I got made me think it was worth looking at more.

I never said I thought Malthusis is clearly scum or called for him to be lynched. I think he's more likely to be scum than town currently, but it's not like I've made a total decision there. My request for more pressure votes was certainly genuine, but this is again aimed at seeing how he reacts. One reaction on page 2 is not worth lynching on. It is worth asking more questions about, though. If it looked like I was calling for him to be lynched, it's because I wanted to see if Malth read that into my statements and reacted to it. He didn't, which is a point in his favor. More on that later, though.

About reactions, it seems to me that everyone can react differently, they're helpful, I know, but they dont prove anything.

When did I ever say I thought it proved anything? The only real proof in mafia comes with death.

This is dodging the question. Tajo questioned whether this method would lead us to scum and Mac dodged with semantics. Obviously you thought it was valuable or you wouldn't have voted based on it. Also, the last sentance seems to be setting up for a "Oops, he was town" post later. This makes me more than a little suspicious, but probably not enough to hop on the bandwagon.

You either weren't reading carefully or you just made this up. The part I quoted was a reply tajo made to something Darla said, it was not a question for me. Technically, if you want to accuse someone of dodging the question, tajo never replied to that specifically; however since I was asking in order to gauge his reply and his reply to my other part didn't ring any scum alarms with me, I don't really care. Yes I voted based on it and thought it had some value. That is not the same thing as thinking it proves he's scum.

I was still being deliberately opaque at this point because I was still testing to see what kind of replies I would get from tajo and Malth. They've both pretty much reacted to everything I wanted to see though, so there's not much point in me continuing to be so obscure at this stage.

I'd just like to say that I think it's legitimate to be concerned about looking scummy as a townie. If you're a townie and you act suspiciously and get yourself lynched, then you've hurt your own team. Of course, if you're worrying about it so much that it prevents you from properly scumhunting or expressing your opinions, then it becomes a problem.

I pretty much agree with this. Town certainly doesn't want to look scummy, but that should be a lower priority for them than finding scum. For scum it's their top priority. I asked that question of Malth not because I think townies shouldn't be worried about it, but again because I wanted to see what kind of response I would get. Which leads nicely into my last point here:

I was so worried about looking scummy because at the time (bottom of pg.2) no one else had really done any scummy things. I realize now it might not have been the best move (hey, I'm no expert) but that was the best move in my mind at the time.

I have to agree with SoW and caf19 here. This doesn't look so good both because it appears that not looking scummy is more of a concern than finding scum, which isn't good, and also because you were wrong - votes at that stage of the game would be less suspicious than a "major FoS."

In fact, Malthusis has not actually done any scumhunting in this game, unless you want to count his overblown, OMGUSy accusation of me on page 2. My vote is staying on him now for this reason.

With his clear explanation, you just will not give up. You just keep on keepin' on with this and never really expand to evaluate his replies.

Bonus Bleh. Add this to the things I dislike about Macavenger.

I was still being deliberately opaque at this point because I was still testing to see what kind of replies I would get from tajo and Malth. They've both pretty much reacted to everything I wanted to see though, so there's not much point in me continuing to be so obscure at this stage.

Again, it sincerely sounds to me like "Hey, Im scum, I found a perfect opportunity to mislynch someone since he "reacted" badly" Dude, everyone could have reacted badly to "Vote:you".

I know I would have said, "okay, why do you suspect that I am scum?" I agree that malthusis was way too intimidated when he said:

Vote: Malthusis

This to me is an extremely bad play. Why would you come up to vote for no reason when you haven't talked at all?

Major FoS :Macavenger

You are the second person to even make a deal about Macavenger except for malthusis himself. And then you keep defending this point time after time after time.

Everyone is scummy until proven otherwise. A good method is to apply some pressure and see if they provide any/more scum tells or not.

Ok, what made you decide to pressure me specifically, instead of one of the other 10 players in the game?

I bet Malthusis is asking himself the same question.

Mac was the second to vote for Malthusis, the second vote did not start a wagon, nor put unseemly pressure on Malthusis. This comes off as very defensive on your part.

In fact, Malthusis has not actually done any scumhunting in this game, unless you want to count his overblown, OMGUSy accusation of me on page 2. My vote is staying on him now for this reason.

So, conclusion, what are your reasons for voting him: reacting or not scumhunting?

You just keep defending Malthusis. Look, Mac started suspecting with his overreaction then the lack of scumhunting came up as more evidence to furhter suspicions. Are you serious about questioning which came first. At the time you asked they both were part of his reason.

Bleh x2, Ive been expecting a decent post from Malthius since the Macavenger attacks and he hasnt posted it yet, although he just posted one in another game Im with him. This, I agree, doesnt feel like townie eagerness. However, for the record, I still dislike the way Macavenger jumped against him and its been noted for posterior analysis. Thats why Id like that you, Mac, post your reasons for picking specially Malthius. And if you would have picked someone else, who would have been?

You keep asking for "proof". How do you expect "100% proof"? You have attempted to devirt people from malthusis with this argument. Guess what, suspicion and inquiry is the name of the game. Do you even begin to provide evidence to resolve the suspicions or "prove" that malthusis is town. You wait, with the rest of us, for him to provide even a hint of town in him.

So finally, you acknowledge how bad Malthusis is looking. Now you want to hint at seperating yourself from him so that when he goes down you are not attached. This is the first time you back up from defending him and start seeing that TOWN does not like how he is playing. Are you just wanting to blend with town since no one else sees any value in your attacks on Mac?

2)Populartajo defense of Darla

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill?

Defending a scumbuddy?

Is this a serious accusation?

FoS: Rice

Rice, who do you suspect and why?

So, here is the second person that you are defending. Tough she is not under much scrutiny. It may have gone unnoticed if it was only an isolated incident. But, lets see the repetition later on in the game.

Bleh, Im going to sound like Im Mr. Defender, but why are you people disliking Darla? Anyone would like to make a case against her cause the only thing Im seeing is "oh, she's defending her scumbuddies". Why not attacking them, then?

Also Im very suspicious of the people jumping against Darla and Id like that they make a solid case against her.

You have chosen to defend some odd players. But what makes it more suspicious is due to the fact that this seems to be

almost

a trifecta between the three of you.

Though it is vague, malthusis defends Darla too:

What's up with this teaming-up of Rosso and Darla? Unvote; vote: Rosso Carne obv

How do you get this? At worst it means that rosso is a stalker if anything. Darla didn't say anything about rosso.

3)Darla in the

possible

trifecta, mostly for the defense Malthusis.

hmmmm

unvote Amor; Vote: Macavenger

You seem to be very mysterious in this one, and I think Amor answered well enough.

Your responses lend nothing that helpful thus far, a possible scum tell. All you have done is implicate Math, instead of looking at others as well, One liner responses are far from helpful for the town.

Just following the steps of populartajo more than anything.

okay I am rereading and IMO mathusius looks more newbish than scummy, I am still wanting to know why Amor was so defensive of caf.

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill? Yea his statements are suspect but just because one is nervous doesn't automatically make them scum in my book. Hell if i had 3 votes I would be nervous too. No one wants to get killed, cos no one wants to lose.

I am wondering why you are so dead set and over zealously hunting SoW. To me that says a SK or a Scum, or it could just an excited townie, I dunno but I think we need to focus more on solid scumtells like Mac's semantics and dodging than we do what some otherwise townie seeming poster's reactions are to being bandwagoned.

again if Mac can convince me otherwise of his scummy/not scummy-ness, and I see more scumtells from Malth, I just might vote for him, but not yet. I am not convinced.

Still defending malthusis.

I am still pretty new to all this, so my approach and my style if you will arent solidified.

I don't know for sure that Mal isn't scum at this time, but based on above posts about what he has done so far he really hasn't done that much. The same could be said of others too, I am only defensive of others because I am not really needing to (or up to now) defend myself, and I just didn't see the scumtells.

Now I will admit Malth is on my radar now, but as said above I am still not convinced. (on anyone)

I still find SoW fishy, Yeah scum hunting is great and benefits us all, it just seems he is too zealous.

So, you do not need to defend yourself at that point. Let me guess, this is what you thought (starting to suspect you may be scum), "why not defend my buddy. Wait, I have been caught defending him, now that makes me look suspicious. How can I back away, but not add to the attack. I should agree with town that malthusis looks suspicious.... .....but that does not help him; almost puts him in greater danger. Okay, I am going to say 'I am still not convinced'."............ Later you say:

lol damn talk about a rabbit hole!!

ok......

Yes, I have defended Malth, but like I said, I didn't see anything blaring 100% (or at least 60%) Summy. I figured he overreacted and people saw an opportunity.

You seem equally in need of 100% proof until you want to "vote" malthusis. This seems to follow suit with populartajo.

Now if the roles were reversed and I were the one being investigated because i made some stupid move early on, I would appreciate someone at least abiding by the 'Innocent until proven guilty' thing, which was all I was trying to do, here with Malth.

You want him to be considered innocent till proven guilty, when if fact you want everyone to be suspected. You have a very strange twisting and turning. Of course, if you were being investigated because you "slipped" you want your team to divert the attention. However, this has started to make you "look" party with him.

However he hasn't given me anything positive to work with since I began defending him. Which makes me believe we should go ahead and lynch or at very least turn the heat on high.

As for the SoW thing as I said in 125, I had misgauged him, and I retracted my accusation/FoS.

I am pretty good with a Malth lynch here...just would like a post or two from others <like caf> before I make the final vote.

Travis, I find less scummy than Malth, but something doesn't set quite right with me about him, I cant put my finger on it, but its still in my mind.

This totally appears that you have given up on malthusis. Even still, you do not want him to be selected. It mostly appears that you are distancing yourself from him because now you see that he has failed the scum alliance. And you keep trying to distance with this next statement, but keep the wrestle to not give up on him.

I was re-reading as well and noticing how stupid my defending of Mal was, because of the 'major' FoS he placed. The logic behind it was a bit iffy, but I just don't see a strong enough case against him

just

yet.

I dont find anyone to be overtly scummy at this point in the game, although Mal's absence from the thread really puts a damper on my doubts.

FoS Mal. For not coming in here and posting to all these questions.

&&( so I end up looking like an idiot for defending you LOL! )

I accept that it wasn't good to defend him like I did....I just am not a big fan of 'band wagoning' early on because It keeps the focus on one player vs. everyone and makes it hard to find scum. (and at the time most people were concentrating on Mal...thus my reasoning)

Now, you need to distance yourself. I am having a hard time being convinced that you are not in alliance with him. You seem to want someone else to make up your mind because you have too much knowledge and do not want to loose a buddy, but he keeps digging himself deeper and deeper.

4)Malthusis applauds Populatajo in defending him

Everyone is scummy until proven otherwise. A good method is to apply some pressure and see if they provide any/more scum tells or not.

Ok, what made you decide to pressure me specifically, instead of one of the other 10 players in the game?

I bet Malthusis is asking himself the same question.

Good point.

A) Possibly. But it's far more likely to catch scum.

Why? Because eager townies are scum too?

Of course they aren't. Eager townies are more likely to respond with questions, trying to figure out the motives of odd behavior, rather than with near OMGUS levels of suspicion.

Last time I checked 'Why would you vote for no reason at all?' (#48) was a pretty valid question.It was fairly obvious that I was trying to figure out why you did that.Heck, even after you said what it was I was trying to figure out why.

Malthusis can only grab populartajo's defense. Apparently he does not have his own.

Note to Malthusis:

It is overly obvious that you were trying to figure out why he voted you. Guess what, he is not the only one that has voted you now; and not the only one that sees you as suspicious. If you cannot figure out why he sees you as being suspicious, maybe you should try reading what everyone else has said too. Answer our concerns. You keep looking worse with every statement you make.

I would ask to prod some people right now, but it's not going to help considering the fact that the mod is gone till Friday

Thanks for saying this. WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU! Have you given up on the game? Have you been caught and have nothing else to say.

FoS: populartajo & FoS: Darla.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Let me state one clarification. I respect everyone who is withholding their vote from Malthusis until he posts. Personally, I would rather have him replaced than lynched for not talking. If the Mod was here, I am sure we would all be pleading for a PROD. So, I agree that we should all wait until he posts or is replaced. If anyone new decides to vote before he posts and responds, then I will remove my vote until we hear from him. But, as long as everyone is holding, then I will keep my vote. This does not define what happens to my vote when and if he responds. That decision will entirely be contingent on him and how he responds.

As for Darla and populartajo, I will respond to your comments later. I do not have time to respond at this moment. Plus, I want to get more feedback from all of town on what I have indicated in my post. My largest desire is to have Malthusis speak. I would be thrilled if he could help us determine his alliance. If he is town, he sure is really not helping us by getting us all wound up.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

goborage, I will get back with you on that too when I get the time to reread and type more.

***To everyone:

if my post was too long, I apologize. I really did not see any easy way to consolidate the substance of what I saw. Thanks for your patience with reading it.

***

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Well, I definitely say that Malthusis has held up the game. And when the silent players are asked what they think they differ to Malthusis. Everyone has made their case. Seriously, we need to have some discussion.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

wow, that is some heavy handed accusation there SoW.

Its a good case, worded well and very cohesive. Only one problem, I am not scum.

This could be true. Or, it could be a lie.

I can see a Pop/Mal alliance sure, why Pop is defending me I do not know, maybe he likes that I was defending his scum buddy (mal) and wants to keep me around longer than those who are leading the crusade against mal.

I agree however, Mal needs to post. The fact he is avoiding all this is a very telling thing. Under the guise that 'The mod is Gone' thats not satisfactory, Mal I am afraid all hope I had in you or at least my doubts that you weren't scum are fading rapidly.

My only question is this, (to the more experienced players as I am still new and haven't completed a full game to this point) don't scum normally avoid lurking? Not defending Mal here, I am just confused by his actions, he is called out, defended by one or more players (Pop, Me) and he still lurks...that just seems kinda weird to me...,

I don't know....

but I don't see why My wanting to be sure before I vote bothers you SoW? I don't want to lynch someone and them end up being innocent...thats why I wait till I am sure, but as it stands my prime suspect IS mal.

As stated after this post, I can repsect the hold off up to this point (patiently waiting for malthusis). But, it is the unwilling attitude to follow through with a vote after the strong statement of readiness to lynch that gets under my skin. You sure put out the idea that you do not know this; you do not know that. I think you are playing hard on the newbie card like it will be the "pass all". I can understand it from time to time, but every accusation you get, what happens, you pull out the newbie card and flash it around like it proves your innocence. This is a second thing that just itches at me.

@ SoW: Just curious, what do you think of caf/coheed right now?

Right now, they have really backed off from any interaction with each other. That could mean too many things. But, the whole connection was not strong enough to really know if they are backing off to create an image of distance. To be certain, Coheed has only offered "one-liners". He has never helped town by stating reasons with much detail. Since malthusis has went silent, he has only deferred to waiting for a post. He demands answers from Mac but never really follows up with further questioning, or dissects the statements of either Mac or malth. I get the feeling that he is hiding under

On the other hand Caf actually has some more substance to his statements. He seems to follow up better than Coheed. But, they have not really ever come out on each other. Any connection is too transparent to through light on.

Finally, to populartajo: I can understand the dislike behind the trap. But, it is the explanations that come after the trap. Plus, I do not think that it is a huge deal for a player to say "vote: player" that early in the game. I did not see it as being too terrible. The fact that he acknowledges that it was a trap and explains every detail behind his thinking seems to resolve all the questions you press on him. Yet, no response or explanation he offers you gets through to you.

RL: I am working long days that is why my posts have been vague and have not addressed the questions more directly.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Wolves: A lot of finger-pointing but not that much commitment. Hasn't answered my question.

@ SoW: Just curious, what do you think of caf/coheed right now?

Well, I answered your question that you took time to ask twice. What did you learn from my answer. What was the point to the question?

What do you mean, that I have "not that much commitment"? What shows lack of commitment to you. I vote were my main points are on Malthusis. He is the most scum player of all. What do you expect in commitment? If lack of commitment bothers you, then you should be all up on Darla's case. She changes her mind more than any other player on where her vote and suspicions are committed.

Shepherd, why do you exactly suspect me?

You say in this next quote that you know that reactions can be helpful and acknowledge that it

does not prove 100%

.

Populartajo, why is it you dont think reactions can be used to find scum? I dont think that they should be the sole reasoning for scum accusations, but I do think they can be helpful.

I already said that there's no way Macavenger could be 100% sure that his "test" could catch scum, since eager townie can also answer that provocation. About reactions, it seems to me that everyone can react differently, they're helpful, I know, but they dont prove anything.
I didnt like his last response, BTW.

Vote : Macavenger.

Also, there's something that bothers me about Shepherd, he feels like he's hunting too much for my taste. Idk, yet.
And can anyone tell me whats the problem with caf?

You suggest that they are helpful. So, if they do not prove 100%, do you suppose they are "more likely" to indicate scum. If they are not "more likely" to come from scum, then how do you seem them as helpful?

A) Possibly. But it's far more likely to catch scum.

Why? Because eager townies are scum too?

B) Reactions are what this game is all about. Scum are more likely to overreact because they have more to lose by dying than a townie does.

No, scum can simply ignore you and a townie can overreact to an acussation because duh, you're accusing of something he or she is not.. My point is that although reactions are helpful, your "test" doesnt prove who's scum or who's not.

How are reactions helpful? Again, he did not claim to

prove

anything by the statement. He implied that the reaction was "more likely" to come from scum.

In fact, Malthusis has not actually done any scumhunting in this game, unless you want to count his overblown, OMGUSy accusation of me on page 2. My vote is staying on him now for this reason.

So, conclusion, what are your reasons for voting him: reacting or not scumhunting?

What about this question. Mac said, he is voting for the initial overreaction and then further the next reason comes from his lack of scum hunting. What is the point to your question. You seem to overlook the growing case on malthusis and keep repeating one single point that he address time after time. You seem like you are trying too hard to get someone else to agree with you by returning to this topic endlessly.

The thing next that you say is part of the

possible

trifecta argument that I proposed earlier. You start the whole disregard for the attack on Darla by defending both Darla and Malthusis (by defending the defense of malthusis made by Darla). You seem to want to make their connection together seem like it is not a real sign. This comes on top of defending malthusis the whole game prior. Here is the quote.

Is it not possible that malth is a nervous Vanilla? or a Cop or something who it will harm the town to kill?

Defending a scumbuddy?

Is this a serious accusation?

FoS: Rice

Rice, who do you suspect and why?

Why does it bother you that Rice saw that connection?

Bleh, Im going to sound like Im Mr. Defender, but why are you people disliking Darla? Anyone would like to make a case against her cause the only thing Im seeing is "oh, she's defending her scumbuddies". Why not attacking them, then?

So, you further keep defending your second pick to defend. What is the question at the end of this quote. malthusis is already under attack. That was her suspected scum buddy. You joined the suspected group by repeated defending malthusis and now defending her, his other defender. The three of you seem to be on the same page.

It almost seems like scum would try to avoid this. So, maybe one of the three of you are innocent. Maybe you like to have her helping the defense on malthusis so that it does not make you look alone. I am still trying to piece the meaning together.

Bleh x2, Ive been expecting a decent post from Malthius since the Macavenger attacks and he hasnt posted it yet, although he just posted one in another game Im with him. This, I agree, doesnt feel like townie eagerness. However, for the record, I still dislike the way Macavenger jumped against him and its been noted for posterior analysis. Thats why Id like that you, Mac, post your reasons for picking specially Malthius. And if you would have picked someone else, who would have been?
Bonus Bleh. Add this to the things I dislike about Macavenger.

I was still being deliberately opaque at this point because I was still testing to see what kind of replies I would get from tajo and Malth. They've both pretty much reacted to everything I wanted to see though, so there's not much point in me continuing to be so obscure at this stage.

Again, it sincerely sounds to me like "Hey, Im scum, I found a perfect opportunity to mislynch someone since he "reacted" badly" Dude, everyone could have reacted badly to "Vote:you".

As stated before, started to distance yourself from malthusis only after no one else agreed with you. You still work hard at this whole point that has been resolved.

Bleh x3. Appart from this Mac-Mat situation, I havent found anything decent to comment on. I will do a reread to find more. For now, I still dont like the way Shepperd sometimes scumhunt but its just me I guess. The too townie argument kicks my ass. Also Im very suspicious of the people jumping against Darla and Id like that they make a solid case against her.
Bleh x 4. Apparently there's not many gaborage in this game. Why is that?

The Darla connection continues. So, you mention gaborage; why not Travis, why not Coheed? These people are equally annoyingly silent at that phase of the game. Plus, they both have super pointless things to add.

Because its definetely better to be quiet about my suspicions or things I dont like, Yeah sure.
Answering to Shepherd's post when I have the time to reread that.
Just a small question, why exactly are you suspecting me, Shepherd?
And just a bonus paragraph for you, friend. Im not defending anyone. Everyone is suspicious to me. My point is that Malthius and Darla are relative newbies, Im not saying they're 100% townies or 100% scum, but they are so easy to be attacked and Im not liking some attacks, especially against Darla. Thats all. If you read my posts, I never said Malthius or Darla were confirmed townies for this. To be honest, it bothers me that Malthius is not well seen by almost all the town, yet he posts in another games and his only defense was quoting my ideas.
What I dont like is that you're stretching this a little too much for my taste. I feel the same about your eager scumhunting but its just a gut feeling I cant keep in my mind.

I am glad to ruffle some feathers. If I did not get under some players skin, then I would not be doing my job. It just happens to be getting under you skin. You are defending players. Your denial does not make that less than true. What is up with this 100% stuff. Only one group has 100% knowledge of who is on what side of town. How can you expect us to present 100% proof. No, you did not prove that they are 100% scum or 100% town. Why are you so concerned with malthusis bad appearance. Is there some reason that you do not want him lynched? Maybe you taste buds are tainted with blood. Maybe, I am getting close to you. Darla, may possible be innocent, I know she does seem very new. But, I do not see that as the trump all. Malthusis is beyond annoying for quiting the game. I feel bad for his replacement. But, you do not sit well with me as I have outlined in this post.

Tell me, other than Darla being new at this, why else do you defend her? What has she said to give you confidence in her being pro town? I do not like you 100% standard that you expect Mac to answer too. What makes her likely to be town by way of analyzing her posts? I am not 100% sure of any player. But, you seem to have more knowledge than the rest of us, why don't you give some to us.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

IMO, I think that we deserve a free extension if we take one, because when the MOD left for a week is when everyone quite playing. He was not here to prod or replace. This is circumstances beyond our control when our key suspect fled. I think this should be an exception because of the whole situation.

Travis looks like he needs to be

prodded

hard and possibly replaced.

If the deadline stands, I do not think we should take the extension. We started asking two or three days ago and that is all that we have talked about. We have 2 days remaining. That makes 3 days of wasted conversation and 2 more days to do something. I feel like we should quit wasting days.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

It is good to see that Malthusis turned up scum. That gives us a good advantage. I will have to read and post later. I have to go to work right now. I am glad to see that xofelf posts more than Travis. I agree with the Darla wagon

FoS: Darla

. However, I am not ready to make it wagon of 4 or more until I reread. Xofelf is suspect to me because of Travis' playing style, or lack thereof. So, I will be watching you today.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

ok, i've been reading through things and i think:
Shepherd_of_Wolves: is a little too eager to attack and lynch people. And posts

really

long posts that you have to read carefully to get.

SoW: What gives you the impression that he's eager to lynch people? Why is attacking people he finds suspicious bad? Is posting really long posts bad?

Well it seems to me that he is attacking everyone and isn't really sticking to one person. And long posts aren't bad, it's just trying to read through them when you replace that makes them bad.

I think that you are just echoing others in how you are labeling me. I only voted for two people in all of day one. Travis (which is now you) and Malthusis. When I changed my vote, I spelt out my reason very clearly that he had the most suspect behavior of all, something more concrete. Whereas, my vote for Travis was part random, part pressure, and mostly because of his useless posts. Now, you replace him and so you have to account for the things I did not like about him. Do not worry, I will give you a fair chance, but I did not like his lurking, lack of scum hunting, and final flunk out (especially in the heat of the day when Malthusis flunked out too).

Once I voted for Malthusis, I stuck it out the entire day, what do you mean that I am not "really sticking to one person". Tell me who really stuck to one person all day. Maybe you will point out that Macavenger stuck it to Malthusis all day. But, he is one person. Okay, so Coheed did too, but in general every one else flip flopped on day one. Look at Darlablueeyes if you want to talk about not sticking to her guns. She jumped around everywhere, and she mostly did it with the winds of town. I made a pick and stuck with it. Sure, I inquired into a few players. What the heck is wrong with inquiring into multiply players (especially on day 1)? Tell me.

The three most disturbing players currently to me are DBE, Popular, and Xofelf. Xofelf, you sound just like an echo so far, nothing original has yet been posted. This is my first real game. But, you do not see me making a big deal about it in almost half of my posts like Darla.

Darla plays this "newbie" card like it is the trump all for excusing her behavior.

You come in and echo her in that, along with Popular and Goborage. She is new.

I think her over emphasis on that fact is further scumtelling.

Most likely, I will be joining her lynch wagon today. I am making my intentions clear, but I am not ready just yet. I want the day to progress a little more before joining on. This is my first time arriving at day two because I had to end on day one in the game that I played.

To explain why I have not posted as much at day 1 conclussion. First, the conversation was sluggish when I was checking the game. Second, Smoke never posted, we were all stalled in some measure by Malthusis. And, further, I helped town get the extra free extension by my post. So, I made a very valuable contribution. Third, my wife had her birthday over the weekend and it was mother's day. By the time I came back, day 1 was done. So, there you have my explanation. Now, classes have started for the summer and I am working more hours during the summer. My wife does not want me spending too much time reading and writing in this game when she only has a limited amount of time with me in the evenings. So, I have to post when I can.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I'm not going to bother arguing with populartajo about my scumhunting anymore; Malthusis/OG's alignment should clear up any remaining questions about that.

Lucky Malthius was scum, Mac. I would have defintely pushed your lynch today if Malthius had come up town. I guess I was somehow traumatized with my first game and that helped to heat the argument. However, that doesnt mean you're going to be that lucky everytime. Just to finish this argument, do you sincerely think Malthius was lynched for your famous reaction?
And Im sure anyone can make a good case against Darla, now that we know Malthius allignment. I feel she's a good lynch. Just read her posts knowing that Mal is a werewolf and you'll notice that.
Just in her case and rereading, Im going to acept I was pretty dumb defending her.

Vote : DBE

Okay, now it is your turn to give a case for why you have flipped face on your stand for Darla. How does Malthusis identity all the sudden make you do a full 180 on your defense for Darla. I think you have some explaining to do. I am tired of you gut feelings and vibes. You have a double standard. You constantly have a feeling about me. So, I get under your skin. Oh, its the wrong thing to do because its done to you. Further, you just had a gut feeling that Darla was innocent. Now you flip face with little to no explanation. Anytime some makes any accusations or inquires, especially about you, you always demand "why do suspect". Well, if you are going to actually take a stand, then do not be so double crossed and give no explanation. If it is one of you gut feelings again, then you loose all creditability with me. You better have logic and arguments.

I think that you are running from the possible trifecta argument. Not necessarily because Darla was involved in the trifecta, but because Malthusis turned scum. You want to distance yourself from Malthusis as much as possible and part of that is distancing from his second defender, Darla. You seem scum enough to me that it warrents my vote.

VOTE: Populartajo

.

I agree with the Darla wagon FoS: Darla. However, I am not ready to make it wagon of 4 or more until I reread. Xofelf is suspect to me because of Travis' playing style, or lack thereof. So, I will be watching you today.

Wouldnt Shepherd the scumhunter vote for Darla? Why does he need a reread? Why dont I like this guy?

Tajo - Possible scum, seemed to really be against the Malth/Smoke lynch, but then again he was mainly doubtful for the reasons I was, which were Mac's reaction tester, which we now know works quite well. 70/30 town/scum

How am I "possible scum" and I am 70/30 town/scum?
Also, his reaction tester doesnt work. But Im going to stop arguing since Mac says he isnt going to use it anymore, right?

Vote: popular I'm going to go with what I perceive as common sense (chances are scum wouldn't want to vote for their buddy). Of the two folks who didn't vote for malth, I'd say popular is the more suspicious of the two. popular's post after the lynch and his vote for DBE seem like a buddying attempt (to town and to Mac), especially after his determined and prolonged attack on Mac.

Interesting post. Ive seen scum voting for their buddys a million times. Do you sincerely think there isnt a scum in Mal's wagon? And, do you think Darla is innocent?

Why should I not reread? I need to reconsidered how things play together now that Malthusis has turned up scum. I need to look for the subtle hints in the posts of day 1. You are the one who is labeling me as too eager to scum hunt. Sure, others have followed suit, but you started the label in post 76. I still think that you are worried that I have come on to you. That is why its all about feeling that I am too eager.

Goborage has a good point that you are trying to flip face with Macavanger too. You now want to look like you are on his side. I think you want to attach yourself to someone who is most likely seen as town. There is more, but this starts to show my dislike for your behavior. Again, here are details, not just gut feelings.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Popular, thanks for writing the details.

UNVOTE

. This seems to be the most reasonable argument that you have made this whole game so far. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt for the current moment. I think the connection between you and Darla is drifting apart today, and am starting to reconsider the possible trifecta I perceived. I am starting to believe the trifecta may not be accurate. I am starting to feel like you are not in known alliance with her. I am willing to hear you out for the time being.

This is just a brief note. More will come later. I just had one moment to comment. This is just a benefit of the doubt for the time being. I expect you to continue to play with more facts. I still want to understand your flip-face attitude.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

1st one: I wouldn't say he's really inconsistent....just more...i dunno....jumping around on things. Though it

is

okay to switch your suspicions on people, heck, I do it!

But at the time I said things, he seemed to me to be rather eager for a lynch.....but looking back now...i'm not so sure anymore

What do you mean I looked lynch happy at the time you said something. I was not voting for anyone at the time. I was very reserved in leaping in day 2. You on the other hand just seem to follow the crowd, such as when you vote Darla. You said:

sorry all, it was prom weekend.

i read through it all again(and will continue to do so, i've made a chart and it's helping me tons) and i have been looking closely at posts. and i have made the following conclusion, DarlaBlueEyes is not just playing the way i did my first game ever, she is also playing the way i did my first scum game too, so I feel justified in

##vote DarlaBlueEyes

You need to explaining your current reasoning. Do not just expect us to read all of you games to see how you played and then compare her behavior. There is ample information in this game for you to explain your vote. I am preparing to vote for you. I will give you one reply to make it clear. It better be a good, or you get my vote.

FoS:Xofelf

2nd one: You know, I have no idea what it was at the time that made me think you were scummy......i'm not dismissing you completely but for now, I don't think you're the most suspiscious at the moment.

This is a further lame explanation of you wishy-washy attitude.

To Populartajo, let me clarify that you have not removed yourself from being suspicious. I only intended to say that you and Darla are appearing to be parting. I still think you still look suspect to me. The flip face still seems rather disconcerting and unresolved.

My lynch choices are most currently between Xofelf and Populartajo. I think that you both have some more discussion to render.

Amor, I do want to know, why are you ready to know Darla's role claim? This is most beneficial to scum at this point in the day. I think we should have her remain silent on that for the time being. Three people jumped on her way too quick for my taste. She nearly was lynched. You ask why I did not vote her immediately. I just want a little more development. There are more than just one player that I want to hear from. If I was on her vote wagon, then we would not be having this discussion. That is why I am reserved. Town is more than happy to delay an unfounded, easy to get lynch. I am

eager

to find scum, but I am not eager to lynch. Town needs day because it is more than today we are discovering. If we hit another scum, then we still need all the information of today to get the third tomorrow. Discussion and inquiry are our best hope to win as town. So, I have no super need to jump up and down like half of you think I did in day one (which none of you ever built any case against to demonstrate what was wrong). You that got involved were just swaying with the crowd and the only reason anyone ever had was was their feelings.

With the paragraph above, Grease, support town with explanations please. "Wow" is too limited to really help me agree with you. I think that was very scummy. Like I said. Town does not want a fast unfounded lynch. So, give some foundation.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Just a quick note: I isolated Greasy Spot and read his 9 posts. More than anything, the lurkers need to speak up. He has said pointless stuff. Granted he left the game for a few days and returned, he still has not helped. He offers no explanation to his vote today, but total chastises Rice for how he went about it yesterday in really stages of the game. His behaviors consist of nothing useful: unvotes, fails to revote, fails to contribute, fails to explain any behavior except his LOA, and in day 2 he places the fifth vote on Darla when 6 is the lynch (that was uncalled for so soon, especially in light of his absolute neglect to provide a reason, not only to vote but to push the wagon to the edge of the cliff). After this isolation and evaluation of him I have to start my vote on him to get some pressure on him to talk.

vote: Greasy Spot

My threat still applies to Xofelf (but, I am greatful for you actually talking more than Travis). As for my current move I must explain that Darla is at least playing, even if everyone sees her as scummy. Her playing helps town. Greasy does not help town in the slightest and must be forced by town to help out.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

EBWOP: "yesterday in really stages of the game." should read "yesterday in early stages of the game."

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Okay, Grease, it would be nice to have you actually play. I play with the information in this game. I think that you can say something meaningful. If you do not, then I think you should be lynched. If you are town, then help us out and quite wasting our time and energy by contributing nothing.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Sorry, I do not know all the text shorthand lingo. Can some explain meta and LAL. I will post a reply to the game soon.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

This is a though choice today. There are four suspects to me. Of course they can not all be scum. They are Grease, Xofelf, Darla, and Popular. It does not seem that enough people are concerned about Grease to pursue that today. My sway is going towards Xofelf. I was not favorable to Travis, and Xofelf has not changed my dislike. I want Xofelf to respond to my questions proposed in post 294. She came in swinging big, backed off quickly, gave little to no explanation for any behavior, and has said little to nothing important.

Unvote. Vote: Xofelf

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Xofelf and Grease usefully speak up and help town. Xofelf, you appear to be the top of the list for lynch today.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

If Xofelf comes up clean, then we cannot ignore Grease because of his meta. I am mad at his entire game play. It does not help town. I can only see scum in how he has played.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Wow! Grease has posted more content today than he has the whole game.

9 out of 10 times your scum are not gonna hammer because they are too scared of the repercussions. I am town and mine was not the only vote on xofelf. If you want to lynch me fine but, look really good at the others on the xofelf wagon.

I stated a while ago I would hammer so the two who voted right before me knew I would hammer and take the heat so they should be looked too.

As populartajo already alluded to CoheedCambria09 and Amor's votes and vote claim look just as bad as mine does.

You say that you promised to hammer. Where do you say that? The only reference I see to the Hammer vote is this.

Indeed Rosso has the reputation of a lady chaser from what I gather. I can not help how I was born nor that he is unable to control his flagrant flirting lol.

Vote Stands for now

...or his unexplainable urge to use the HAMMAH!

unvote

In this post the only interpretation possible to come to is that you refer to Rosso (his) having the urge to use the Hammah. Nowhere in the whole game do you post a promise to hammer.

No your vote was not the only one on Xofelf. Obviously, if that were the case it would have lynched her. But, your vote was situated with implications. The problem I have with your vote is your whole process of playing. Things that make you look scum.

[1] All D-2 you vote hopped. You gave no reasoning for anything. This lack of reasoning has no benefit for helping town. All town has to their advantage is discussion, and you robbed us of that opportunity by voting way before the needed time.

[2] You robbed Xofelf the chance to plead her defense. And now we have one less town member. Town has no need to prevent the innocent from defending themselves, heck we allow everyone innocent or guilty the chance to defend.

[3] Now you try to say that it would be too bold for you to have been scum and use the hammer. That is a load of crap IMO, coming from you. You make it sound like that was a pro town move. You could have questioned her prior to voting, especially knowing she was on the ledge and there was time to question. You could have offered explanation for considering her. There is no benefit to us by what you did.

[4] Your first real question came today. Why wait until D-3 to get around to your first question.

You accuse me and Coheed of being equally as suspicious in voting Xofelf. I know that I questioned, reasoned and prodded for responsive behavior from her. You did not. So, if you want to point out something useful, please do. What else do you have to suspect me, Coheed, or anyone else for that matter.

You say Populartajo alluded that Coheed and Amor look just as bad as you. That is another lie. He said nothing about you. He did not like Coheeds vote, and Amor's willingness. You went far beyond willingness and hammered. That not only looks, but actually is way worse, given that the opportunity was still available for defense and discussion. Further, you want to change the appearance of how you look. Like I told Malthusis, scum are most worried about appearance.

There are more things to consider today, especially with Darla's claim. But, I am starting off by voting you. You sicken me too much to leave my voice unheard.

Vote: Greasy Spot

I am going to post a second separate post to discuss other issues in the game. I want this post to be dedicated to my accusations on Grease.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I think I will just go ahead and claim now, because obv. this isn't looking too hot for Darla.

I am a miller (whatever that REALLY is) my PM says i would come up as scum if investigated, so obviously if you all decide to lynch me it wouldn't necessarily hurt the town all that much since from what I can tell, theres 6 townies and 1 scum left, hardly lylo.

but its the truth of the matter, I am a miller, I looked it up on wiki and PMd the mod to see if i was missing anything, and it looks like I am just a vanilla that comes up guilty when investigated.

*shrug* sorry my role isnt of more help to you guys. I am still pretty suspicious of the greasyspot actions even though as he said it'd take a stupid or a ballsy scum to do what he does, although thats all pretty WIFOMy

I am not even close to buying this claim. You could easily have worked out this claim with the whole scene outlaid by Popular in quoting Rice. Now, that you know that Rice was a hunter and that you where the topic of his interest. I agree you where cleaver in claiming this, but it is not feasible to purchase. I highly doubt this is the story you would have told yesterday in a role claim when you where on the verge of being lynched. More to be said later.....

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I think I will just go ahead and claim now, because obv. this isn't looking too hot for Darla.

I am a miller (whatever that REALLY is) my PM says i would come up as scum if investigated, so obviously if you all decide to lynch me it wouldn't necessarily hurt the town all that much since from what I can tell, theres 6 townies and 1 scum left, hardly lylo.

but its the truth of the matter, I am a miller, I looked it up on wiki and PMd the mod to see if i was missing anything, and it looks like I am just a vanilla that comes up guilty when investigated.

*shrug* sorry my role isnt of more help to you guys. I am still pretty suspicious of the greasyspot actions even though as he said it'd take a stupid or a ballsy scum to do what he does, although thats all pretty WIFOMy

*Shrugs* my PM said I was a Miller, thats all I know, I thought it WAS special cos I hadn't heard of it till I wiki'd it.

I just read the role description in wiki. Did the Mode tell you the meaning of the role? It indicates that it would be less meaningful to reveal that to the player. These two quotes seem to contradict each other, they indicate the mod told you the meaning of the role, but then you say you did not know what the role was until you read it from wiki. This contradiction makes it seem less likely that you are that role, and the mod did not tell you the meaning of it. Rather, it seems like you where role claim investigating by reading the roles from wiki so you could claim a role that would explain your behavior. Now, you claim this, quickly after popular sets up a case from Rice's kill. I do not like it.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Popular, was that a quote from your PM or a quote from the Mods demo on page 1? What did you intend to get with it?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I gave some opinions about grease that I am still interested in hearing discussion on from him and the town.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

First, I would like to thank Grease for more substance. I think that what you said really supports lack of town.

You say that you promised to hammer. Where do you say that? The only reference I see to the Hammer vote is this.

I was mistaken. I posted that in another game. Sorry for the confusion.

So, you posted the threat in the other game. Okay, but why did you need to hammer here? Explain now that you previous explanation was not applicable to this game.

[1] All D-2 you vote hopped.

I hardly call 3 votes "vote-hopping". My 1st vote on DBE was joining a wagon. My 2nd vote was on you cause you voted me. The 3rd was the hammer, need I say more.

I agree that three could be considered none-vote-hopping if there is associated discussion and reasoning with the changes and votes. But, when it is all that you do, and you make no other discussion, it is vote-hoping.

[2] You robbed Xofelf the chance to plead her defense. And now we have one less town member. Town has no need to prevent the innocent from defending themselves, heck we allow everyone innocent or guilty the chance to defend.

Correct you are.

I am correct as you say. Then why? Why did you rob discussion, limit town from the only asset they have?

[3] Now you try to say that it would be too bold for you to have been scum and use the hammer. That is a load of crap IMO, coming from you. You make it sound like that was a pro town move. You could have questioned her prior to voting, especially knowing she was on the ledge and there was time to question. You could have offered explanation for considering her. There is no benefit to us by what you did.

I could have done any one of those, but she could have claimed as well.

If you expected her to claim, or thought it her chance out, then why not request her to do so with the threat to hammer? She could have had you given time and requested her to speak.

[4] Your first real question came today. Why wait until D-3 to get around to your first question.

See post 183 and 247

You have had some time, I agree it may not be much. You could have asked a question just as easily as you hammered. The excuse has its limitations and cannot cover all of your lack of townfulness.

You accuse me and Coheed of being equally as suspicious in voting Xofelf. I know that I questioned, reasoned and prodded for responsive behavior from her. You did not. So, if you want to point out something useful, please do. What else do you have to suspect me, Coheed, or anyone else for that matter.

Yeah, I couldn't find this could you direct me to a post.

Here it is, post 360.

9 out of 10 times your scum are not gonna hammer because they are too scared of the repercussions. I am town and mine was not the only vote on xofelf. If you want to lynch me fine but, look really good at the others on the xofelf wagon.

I stated a while ago I would hammer so

the two who voted right before me knew I would hammer and take the heat so they should be looked too.

As populartajo already alluded to CoheedCambria09 and Amor's votes and vote claim look just as bad as mine does.

It is me and Coheed that voted before you hammered. You accuse us of knowing that you would hammer and thus look just as suspicious. As mentioned earlier, you did not mention this and we had no clue, thus invalidating that attempt to blame us. But, here is were you accuse us.

You say Populartajo alluded that Coheed and Amor look just as bad as you. That is another lie. He said nothing about you. He did not like Coheeds vote, and Amor's willingness. You went far beyond willingness and hammered. That not only looks, but actually is way worse, given that the opportunity was still available for defense and discussion. Further, you want to change the appearance of how you look. Like I told Malthusis, scum are most worried about appearance.

No he didn't refer to me but he did say he didn't like their "vote" and "willingness". I'm the one that made the connection that theirs was as bad as my hammer.

There threats may seem bad, and popular should take that issue up. But, you still look worse for robbing any opportunity to respond. That is worse. I am surprised popular just lets this point go unresolved. He throws out the whole argument and does not return and just lets you pass by with this:

I dont think that Greasy deserves more attention than Darla. I guess he starts playing D2, D3 to avoid lynchs and nightkills. His style is pretty convenient for scum at the beginning of the game but he'll have to start to make sense if he doesnt want to be lynched soon. He's a top suspect.
For now, I think Darla's situation is extremely convenient for her. Village miller? Where did the village come from?I think she's a healthy lynch.
Why dont you, Goborage?

I do not think he was serious about what he said about how Xofelf was finished off or threatened to be by Amor and Coheed.

I want this post to be dedicated to my accusations on Grease.

ooooo.....A whole post dedicated to me. Don't feel special..

Regardless of how you feel about me, the town will be less one member if I am gone. If you are happy with that then you are not a member of the town group.

I am not happy loosing town. But, everyone who is scum claims town when it gets down to the question. So, me wanting you lynched is based on your anti-town behavior. If you are town, as you claim, then why rob town of discussion and avoid being helpful? There are ways to help town, none of which you do.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

If the town lynches Darla and not Grease, I am agreeable. I see Grease to be equal in deserving lynching but will be willing to help vote Darla. I think that she has total fabricated her claim and think she is scum. But, I know that tomorrow we will need the case on Grease which I intend to find.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Shepherd, why dont you like the Darla lynch?

Did you overlook this statement?

If the town lynches Darla and not Grease, I am agreeable. I see Grease to be equal in deserving lynching but will be willing to help vote Darla. I think that she has total fabricated her claim and think she is scum. But, I know that tomorrow we will need the case on Grease which I intend to find.

Let me state the meaning. I am in on Darla's lynch. I want to have questioned answered by Grease. The results will be helpful tomorrow. The only two people not voting are Coheed and Grease. The lynch will most likely not happen on Grease today. But, I wanted him to answer my questions. If I vote Darla now, then Grease most surely will Hammer. That prevents me from getting the info from him. I do not like this style of play. He seems very anti-town and does not refute that fact. I have not read up on his meta. I do not have time to investigate his past games. So, I take it for what it is.

After reading what was written by Mac on Gobo and Darla, I think that he has some really good points. I want to reread and see the pattern myself. They are both voting in conjunction this time around, which would make the lynch on Darla very telling.

More to come later.......

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

What? This is discouraging. Grease has promised to be unavailable and unresponsive to the thread. Checking in will not be sufficient to get the answers and move the game forward. So, for the sake of time and seeing the lynch is decided for today. I will offer the hammer vote.

I want to say, I think that the claim she proposed looks more fabricated, studied out, and designed to respond to the proposed Rice threat. I wanted more from Grease, that is why I held of and laid my attack on him. I resume my inquiry on him tomorrow. With Darla's alliance made known, much will be learned.

Vote: Darla

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

First off, I want to say, 2 of the three in my trifecta have come up guilty. I will reread the thread to see about the third. I think that defending one friend, then turning on the next scum could be very possible to change an appearance. But, for now, this is my concern.

Quotes from Goborage that bother me:

I seriously don't have anything to say about the others. It was a strain just to write this.

Scum strain to fabricate their pseudo-case on town members when not much has been said.

In summary, defending another player is not necessarily scummy behaviour. I think townies defend their ilk just as much as scum do (maybe even more so as scum may try to avoid making connections to each other).

Town do not know who their ilk are, unless they are mason or they have investigation results. Therefore, how can town defend town more so than scum?

@popular: I'll acknowledge there is a possibility that there are scum on Mal's BW but I still think it's way more likely that they are off it. To make it clear, yes, I think your behaviour is more suspicious than Darla's.

This would be awfully convenient for town to believe for scum, if they both happen to be on it.

My vote is still on popular but I wouldn't object to a GS lynch. Lynching someone for being anti-town is as good a reason as any imo.

This anti-town accusation seems very ambiguous. "As good a reason as any" sounds like scum talk. Scum come up with any reason. Being anti-town should be seen by town as very scummy, not just as good a reason as any. We need solid beliefs in real reasons. Not just any reason to commit lynches.

Ya miller really just seems like a headache for town. Anyways I'm willing to believe you for now. I still think that GS should be today's lynch.

Vote: Greasy Spot

You seem to be the only one who believes Darla. Why did you believe her so easily?

I still want to get more from Grease. But, I am interested in hearing your response Goborage.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I think that Gobo's claim seems realistic and believable. Further, I think the flavor of his claim seems true to the game. Mac, if you do not believe in the potent formula, then what would you expect? I think that you were targeted on N1 and that you were guarded by caf19. I think that you were the target N3 again and that you were saved from lynch.

My choices at this time are Grease and Coheed. I will elaborate more later and decide my vote later.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Sorry everyone, I am out of town until Monday Night starting Friday. I will not be able to post until Monday.

So, for now, I will ***********

Vote: Coheed

.***************

I think that Grease is first choice for scum, but I see the rest of you voting Coheed second to Goborage. I see Coheed second to Grease. Therefore, I will meet half way. Currently, I believe Gobo.

I do not think that scum would do a no lynch just for image when he is so far behind. You would have to be way stupid to let a no-night-kill happen with 2 scum down! As no one was killed, and if the previous is true, then we have a Doc. If the real Doctor is not Gobo, then he better stand up and claim. Then it will become a test of claims, which I currently hand to Gobo. Therefore, Coheed gets my vote for now until Monday. Take it for what you will.

Further, a Martyr does not sound like a disadvantaged protective role for town, because he has to sacrifice his own life to do it. With werewolves there must be some hero that wants to impress the laddies but in the end gives his life. JoAT only has one time defense, therefore, it is still not overbearing. So, to have a legit doc on sight sounds very reasonable to me.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

One last bit. We apparently never had a cop. None has come up dead and no one seems to be taking a strong investigative claim. In the flavor of the game, how would they be able to know the true blood? The Hunter, maybe, but what other role. If such a cop exists, then they had better have investigated Gobo or Grease last night since they were the talk of town.

This being said, if true, further makes the doc role more believable to me. We can be overloaded with defense, as you see it, if we do not have a cop in the game.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

One final post before I leave. I believe there are more than two power roles. I can see the Hunter not having a defensive role, which would make a doc even more plausible. Mentioning about the flavor of pharmaceutical dousing, I just want to remind you that ingestion is not the only administrative route. They have cream, ointment, and gels that are all topically applied. Repugnant oder sounds to be very reasonable.

Now, Mac has just implicitly claimed his role to everyone. So, you can take it or leave it.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Hello friends, I am back. Lots of fun on my trip1

What is QFT?

Sorry, was at parties all weekend. The only case on me that I think is relevant is that I've been lurking, and I really don't know why I have, Just never got into this game.

I think the mass claim is pretty good, because for me it wont do any harm. I've never bussed a partner because I'm just a townie. The lines about Darla were what I was thinking. Wasnt meant to be taken as distancing, I really wanted to put my vote on, but was cautious about someone lynching without reason.

What do you mean, "cautious about someone lynching without reason"? You intended to put the hammer vote on her. Are you saying you had no real reason to do it? Obviously, you did not get on the vote, because I finished it off before you could have.

As for the mass claim, I am opposed. We already have three people that have claimed so far this day. Coheed and Mac have claimed along with Goborage. That leaves me, Amor, Grease, and Populartajo unclaimed. I think scum have far more to gain from mass claim. If Gobo lives and is the doc, then he already has some tough choices to make. So, I am not in favor of the mass claim.

I think that Coheed does sound like the town echo.

@Coheed: why do you think town is "stacked" when you think that the martyr just dies N-1? How does that advantage town so much that they should only have a JofAT as the only other role? The one thing that I think happens with the JofAT is that the mod defines the advantages and limitations and can be very much adjusted with any different theme. This game he may have only had two or three specials to use 1 to 2 times. But, another game could be 4 or 5 specials only to be used 1 time. So, it is hard to say how defined and limited the role may have been. In any case, I strongly think that Goborage has a very strong claim.

I think that you are a great choice for the lynch Coheed. You comments today strongly reinforce this interest. If you are scum, then it is obvious why you want mass claim.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Grease, now that you are home, it would be wonderful to hear some analysis beyond small smirky comments. You are still very much my questioned player. So scummy that no one seems to want to see you as scummy. That is the reverse psychology that you intend IMO.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

As I proposed, I do not see JofAT as having a required protective role option. Further, I do not think that Martyr really is a power role per say. It is more than just a vanilla role, but it is more of a draw fire to one's self rather than protect the town from a Night Kill. I hold firm that Gobo's claim is reasonable. If you do not like the Coheed lynch, then why are you opposed to the Grease lynch? I am more inclined to go for the Grease lynch even over Coheed. Grease is blatantly anti-town in all of his game play and he agrees that its true. As I said, he is playing so scummy as to be too scummy to lynch for town. But, if Grease is not the option for town, then Coheed is my second pick. His play is very non-analytical and just seems to say, I second that notion.

I would still like these two questions answered.

What is QFT?


and..............................

Sorry, was at parties all weekend. The only case on me that I think is relevant is that I've been lurking, and I really don't know why I have, Just never got into this game.

I think the mass claim is pretty good, because for me it wont do any harm. I've never bussed a partner because I'm just a townie. The lines about Darla were what I was thinking. Wasnt meant to be taken as distancing, I really wanted to put my vote on, but was cautious about someone lynching without reason.

What do you mean, "cautious about someone lynching without reason"? You intended to put the hammer vote on her. Are you saying you had no real reason to do it? Obviously, you did not get on the vote, because I finished it off before you could have.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Darla on the current three most highly suspect players.

Goborage

GreasySpot

Coheed

Everyone, here are the most prominent quotes to me. I think light is shed on Coheed. I see some of Mac's concerns about gobo. Grease, well, this needs more discussion. Here they are read, analyze, and comment.

as promised, (sorry for the Delay)

Macavenger -- I really get a Townie vibe from him, he seems to be the most level headed in the town, but A good question was brought up, why isn't he dead? Could he have some sort of NK immune role? is the Scum just avoiding Killing him to create WIFOM? or is he himself a Scum masquerading as Town?

Eval: Should be looked into, however NOT Lynch material for today.

Populartajo -- Flipflopped a great deal between day 1 and day 2, used the newbie excuse, then was offended whn I attributed it to him in my last evaluation, I really am on the fence with him, but I would think he was town more than scum.

Eval: Town, should not be lynched

SOW: Scum hunter extraordinare. Possibly the most townie of the townie players, I would not under any circumstance want to see him go. I had my doubts in day 1 but he has proven himself to be an indispensable asset to this town.

Eval: 90% town, No lynch

Greasy: Ah greasy, the most erradic, and scummy player in the game. Lurked through the majority of D1 & D2, confessed to his votes being only OMGU, Bandwagon and a Hammer, has done nothing por-town all game. Scum.

Eval: Lynch.

Amor: Can't get a great read on him, seems pretty neutral, but I would think Town, in this case.

Eval: No Lynch.

Coheed: Only other scum suspect for me, and its really pushing it. I will have to come back later to explain, as for now I must go,

to sum up

vote greasy spot

Gobo; seems pretty town, I reread a lot of his posts and like SOW seems pretty level headed and doesn't jump to conclusions, if you read back the lump sum of his posting he is possibly one of the most neutral players as well.

Working up a Coheed analysis,

may have to post it tomorrow depending on if I fall asleep or not.


As for you, I struggle with being a little annoyed with you but <with the exception of ABR aka 'Albie'> I try not to let my personal feelings towards a player affect how I read them. Even though I don't particularly like you, <for generally trying to lynch me :p> I just see you as too out there to be scum, and therefor, that is why.

so coheed, Mac, SOW, and DBE have all been on the wagons,

amor and Tajo have been on neither.

Greasy and gobo have been on one.

We have lost one scum (malth/smoke)

Calf a Martyr (presumably some sort of doctor?)

Elf a townie

and Rice A hunter (presumably some sort of Cop?)


That leaves 8 of us, I would look at it this way:

Mac - 80% town, I think he is very town, lots of scum hunting, and has had a genuinly townie attitude

Coheed - 60% town, Hard to read, seemed a bit oppourunistic there at the end but overall more townie than scummy.

SOW - 70% town, he has been consistantly scum hunting throughout the game, and seems to consider his votes well.

Greasy - 45% town He plays in a very ballsy way for a scum but is not benefit to the town. Lurks, one liner posts, votes without a reason, and hammered before elf could post.

Amor - 50% town, I have wondered if this was a scum, avoiding the wagons, keeping low, and pledging psuedo votes that he doesn't have to follow through on. Im not really getting a strong read either way but its possible.

Populartajo - 50% town He flip flops a lot, but seems to be kinda newbish, not getting a very strong read here either.

Goborage - 70% town, Seems townie to me, very logical and scum hunting oriented.

more later, gotta go now.

Sorry I ahve been inactive guys having a hard time reading Elf without anyposts from her.

I meta'd greasy as well mac, and you're right it is common and I think it may just be his MO.

I agree you played very oddly yesterday greasy, but as you said it would be one helluva a ballsy move to hammer like that as scum. Not that it clears you by anymeans, but I think its a good enough argument at this point.

..................

I think I will just go ahead and claim now, because obv. this isn't looking too hot for Darla.

I am a miller (whatever that REALLY is) my PM says i would come up as scum if investigated, so obviously if you all decide to lynch me it wouldn't necessarily hurt the town all that much since from what I can tell, theres 6 townies and 1 scum left, hardly lylo.

but its the truth of the matter, I am a miller, I looked it up on wiki and PMd the mod to see if i was missing anything, and it looks like I am just a vanilla that comes up guilty when investigated.

*shrug* sorry my role isnt of more help to you guys.

I am still pretty suspicious of the greasyspot actions even though as he said it'd take a stupid or a ballsy scum to do what he does, although thats all pretty WIFOMy

will post more later, but I'm glad to see greasy taking a more active role even if it is still one liners.

I am willing to do it again, seeing as how now, Greasy is screaming scum at me, will work on it and post within the hour.

I knew when this game started and I was a Miller it was gonna suck. LOL, and it got worse when I defended a newbie who came up scum. Talk about domino effect. Before you all lynch me, which it seems you are gonna do,

I would like to say that I have no knowledge of anyone's alignment, and my comment about gobo being neutral was just that, he didn't seem one way or the other on anyone.

and Mac, your tireless defense of Greasy cos of his meta Is a bit worrisome. Unless you know his alignment, your defense of him, is pretty idiotic considering how scummy he is. You guys crucify me for my defense of Malth, well why don't you take a look at Mac there. (Doing the same thing with an even scumier acting player, who ISN'T a n00b)

Goborage ==

I am sorry If i let you down, but its not a simple task to follow up a post like that.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

@Coheed: my concern is more about why you said "without reason"? You wanted to hammer without reason, because you say this statement plus you say you want to hammer. Now your reasons for doing it would be very tanted if you explained them, but you did not seem to explain them very well. The way I see it, you had no real reason, because you did not want it but you needed to look interested in her death.

Further, Amor seems to be the only one that said he wants to lynch you for you disbelief of the claim. Why not defend yourself more rather than just offer acknowledgment of his concern, and further assume everyone else saw the same thing that he saw in his statement.

@ Grease: Well, we are waiting. You are so darn quiet. I would lynch you in a heart beat if others would help. As for now, you are very anti town and I do not like it in the slightest.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Unvote

just for your request, and to see Grease Speak. It will resume soon, unless we all will vote grease.

MOD

: Grease has said nothing with several requests. Will you please prod him.


Grease who is your choice, and why? Why do you play so anti town?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Exactly, when is deadline? I want to make sure we lynch today. I am still leaning towards Grease first and foremost. Now, we have to question Coheed really believing that he was lynched, or if that was a setup to enhance the appearance on his innocent vanilla claim.

@Grease: You did not claim earlier. Now, is this claim supposed to be for this game or another? If you are pulling the "I am in other games" card to excuse your messy behavior, then how can we decide what is genuine for this game. For all I know, all you claims of innocence for this game only apply to another game. Of course, if your scum you will claim innocent either way. But, if you keep slipping up in this game with intentions from another game, then it discredits the possible believable stuff.

How does mentioning one person in several posts make it busing? It seems very possible to repeated mention your main suspects. What content in his posts seems incriminating to you beyond just mentioning about Darla?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I say that about Coheeds claim in post 550 because Darla said, good job town for lynching her even before she was actually lynched. That is one item that helped me decide to hammer her. But, she seemed really sloppy in her slip ups, and I want to know if Coheed is capitalizing on her doing the same thing, or if this makes his claim more believable.

@Grease: one last question, what is the is your real claim and what does it mean if you think it is just a character to all?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

@Grease: Popular had completely been on the attack of Darla ever after N-1 starting D-2. What I do not understand is why he and Mac defend you. So, now that you are talking,

how does you entire game play prior to this point help town in the slightest?

I am still trying to understand the meaning of bussing.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I believe we have come to no choice. Deadline is today. Coheed is today's lynch.

Vote: Coheed

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Personally, I believe Goborage still. It is way too foolish to let two nights go by with out a lynch if he were a scum. My guess was, it would be my night kill, or it would be Gobo, since he is an announced power role. I strongly believe their is a doctor in the game, and as Gobo has not been counter claimed, I think he lives. Unless something really apparent happens, I do not intend to join town against Gobo, I would rather go with a no lynch. To me he is obviously a no lynch today.

Look, if he is the doc, then he has verified three innocent people, Macavenger, Me (SoW), and Himself (Gobo). So, that leaves us with three unverified persons Popular, Amor, and Grease.

Grease is my lynch choice today. He is mixing games together, which bothers me, because he claims such and never gets to the questions. He has done it two or three times now. He is presenting untrue statements on Popular.

More to come later.

Vote: Grease

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

EBWOP: "two nights go by with out a lynch" should read "two nights go by without a kill"

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

To Mac, who posted while I was writing. There is one obvious reason I would have come off as a night kill choice even last night, reread. I will not mention it until more discussion happens.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Mac, I will mention it now. You and Coheed both mentioned the idea that all power roles where known and that no more should be expected. This confirmed you and Coheed as villagers. So, I come along and decline the idea that all power roles are up. That leaves me unconfirmed in what role I have.

I believe gobo because it would be incredibly risky to do two nights with no kill. Maybe the first night, which I did not believe in the first place. But, not two nights with this many town alive. It is especially foolish for him to do a no kill after town was so strongly against him. You or Popular would have been his target.

So, I am starting to think that my trifecta was correct. Grease or Popular are my top choices. I think Popular know that both Grease and Darla made scum look terrible on day 1 and the only option he had period was to total oppose Darla the rest of the game. So, My two picks are between popular and Grease.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

unvote; VOTE: Populartajo

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Look Popular, you say that you see grease as an individual character (with the innuendo that he is against town in his individuality). This does not sound probable because there has never been a two night kill. So, in my book we should only have one team of villains. Everyone in the game is claiming to be clean. So, what reason should we have to trust you. Gobo has some good points that you switch back and forth rapidly.

So, if we decided to lynch grease or gobo, what would be our reason?

I will

UNVOTE

so as to give you time to answer. But, I intend to return my vote again. My pick is between you and Grease. Why should I choose grease over you. You seem wishy washy.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Popular, discuss my questions in post 605 please. You have only one more lynch vote. Me and Gobo are the only ones holding out yet.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Who did you protect Gobo?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Explain what you mean if it came down to what 4. What exactly are you suggesting?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Well, Doc. If we have a no kill role, then that discredits your claim a little don't you think. Maybe you know that you where a no kill character and would be advantaged to take a claim like Doc. So, now we have to decide if there is a no kill among us. If so, how does that affect the Doc claim? Three nights of no kill is a really incredible act for a Doc, which would be wonderful.

Another possibility is that we have a scum that choose not to defend the first no kill night to see who would claim Doc. But, then why has he only played the out guess Doc game and not targeted the Doc for a night kill? Why would he keep choosing me two nights in a row? Maybe scum is trying to see if the Doc will let up on me.

Maybe if there is a no kill scum, they may have been able to investigate for power roles and that is why they killed Rice. Maybe he is a picture on the wall who can investigate during night, or maybe during day and make suggestions to the living werewolves. So, maybe he is a no kill, but an investigative role for scum. In this case, I would only suspect one remaining scum. We have sadly lynched three town members the last three days.

So, If we have a no kill scum, then it would not hurt us to have a no lynch day. Because we can discuss the most likely scenario. We can all give a majority vote to a no lynch day to see what happens another night. The advantage to this is to see if we have a no kill. But, If we lynch today and some kills at night, then we have three alive. With another lynch then it comes to two players and scum win.

Lets discuss the possible out comes before finalizing the lynch.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Grease, I do not trust you and never have this whole game. My next post will be a vote for you unless you give any reason that you are not guilty. Further, I need you to explain in detail why we should vote amor or gobo, as you would have us do. Do not just tell me you are town, that will not be sufficient.

I agree that our best bet is to lynch today. If we get a night kill tonight, then we are in a heap of trouble if we did not lynch.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Wow! I left town for four days and no one has really said anything. I read your post Grease and agree that is fails to address the up to date changes that have come after Gobo's claim and 3 nights of no kills.

So, thank you for saying something more than you have ever said the whole game. The said thing is, you pull this whole argument out on Gobo, but you have fit the same scenario during day 1,2,3, & etc. about needing to have the whole town prod you. You have been the most blatantly scum day time player that is still alive.

As you said, Go ahead. Even this comment is a scum thing to say if you actually were town. So, now we will find out for certain. I hope your lynch makes the game conclude, because I firmly believe everyone else seems town at this moment except you.

VOTE: GREASY SPOT

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Well, I was not expecting two to be alive. Second, I thought that I would have the opportunity to double vote if the odds came against me. I did not suspect Amor very much at all. I almost believed Greasy, but just could not come to grips with his play style and the rehash of all the previous arguments especially since he did not say anything about the three nights of no kill.

So, I am not clear. It looks like the 2 lone wolves could still have the option to kill, right???

Next, I really thought 3 nights was way too much for no kill and suspected Gobo's claim was looking more bunk. But, I wanted a no lynch day to prove in the night that Gobo could not have guessed a 4th night in a row. That would have sealed my vote on him. But, then again, I should have looked more into the discussion. Only Amor responded and he laid a reasonable point out. Of course, he did not want another night with no kill because gobo would be lynched and he would be alone and Mac and I were sure to have concurred him.

I only considered one more wolf to be in the game and would not have lynched so quick had I thought more through.

Grease, where did you come up with the flavor in your claim?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Sorry, Grease. I meant, Gobo. Where did Gobo come up with his flavor?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

For my first game, it was interesting to see that much of the conversation and actions is hard behavior to decipher, especially with the two lone wolves. Especially, since both of them did not know each other and were not even alluded to by the Mod to the two scum that were in alliance.

I really thought that town had this one rapped up. I would have gone for Gobo on the next day and Amor on the last. I thought 4 nights with no kill would have completely debunked him. However, If Amor stood alone in his lone wolf status and Gobo really had been the Doc, then there still would have been no night kill. It just was a strange scenario that I was not expecting in the slightest.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I nearly posted that in your defense, if I did not (seeing that I do not remember and I do not care to reread now). Because I work in a pharmacy and know plenty of ointments and cream.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

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