Newbie 612: Cancelled due to mod error

[W!nt3r]

aadfjkgladsbhjlf

I'm here, was having trouble posting for some stupid reason...

arbitrary

Vote - Babygirl

[W!nt3r]

FoS: TartarianCerberus

for putting me at L-2
I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

we didn't agree on anything. The town collective group never said: It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes.

FoS Strappado

for basic misrepresentation.

Unvote

I think we have enough reactions here to start getting into thick, lively discussion... I'm retracting my initial arbitrary vote.

[W!nt3r]

you're right W!int3r,

we

didn't agree on anything seeing as this is only your 2nd post and you never threw in your 2 cents on the subject.

But I got the feeling from those of us that

did

discuss it that we felt similarly: diceroll is not much of a scumtell, but it's also not a good idea for town as it detracts from the information that can be gained from day1. I got that feeling from these posts in particular

Anyone could decide to use a dice and not just because they are 'frightened scum.' Their reasonings could be as arbitrary as the dice themselves.

I also think dice rolling is also a way for any player to prevent early game metas. So it may be a personal habit rather than a role-based habit.

I didnt mean that everyone who uses it is scum, I merely meant that using it is helpful to scum and that if you wanted to avoid slipping up then doing this would be a good idea.

It's up to interpretation what they meant, but the general feeling I got was "not much of a tell, but not a good idea to do either"

The town collective group never said: It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes. FoS Strappado for basic misrepresentation.

misrepresentation? I think you are the one that is misrepresenting me. Could you please point out where I said that the group decided "it was ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes?" I think everything I've said has been to the opposite.

I'm at L-2, you FoS and unvote whoever you were voting... prepping yourself for a quickhammer if the opportunity arises?

This is hogwash... There was not a "discussion." The people you quote as being part of your discussion only posted what their singular position on weather it was a scum tell or not. To discuss a point would imply that one means to prepare specific points on a subject and procure a dialog on said subject via multiple posts supporting one's point, or countering another's post...

As for my FoS, it was exactly that, a Finger of Suspicion. Your obtuse comment regarding my preparing a vote against you is another misrepresentation. I have made no move to vote you, nor have i posted anything to that effect, implying I have done so is hilarious. Also, seeing as you have been l-2 for 24 hours without being hammered by scum gives me great insight on who is who in this group.

Care to dig your hole any deeper?

[W!nt3r]

I'll grant you that "discussion" may not be the best word for the quoted posts, but I'll call it discussion for lack of a better word. Would anyone like to suggest what that was? Casual discourse? Conjecturing?
You ignored what I said and went for word usage instead. Would you care to address

what

I said and not

how

I said it?

How, might I ask, did I ignore what you said. I responded to it, answered your question, and corrected you.

You're making pointless banter that has nothing to do with game at hand. Instead of taking the criticism in stride you've decided to push an irresolute argument based on semantics which still you proved nothing with. Providing a definition for a word that still does not fit the situation is ignorance.

You're trying to argue the fact that you had a discussion with your fellow townsfolk. In your argument you site the definition of the word that you are being attacked on... This does not help the fact that the situation in question still does not count as a "discussion."

Would you care to address

what

I said and not

how

I said it?

[W!nt3r]

Also, I was not representing what you were doing, I was asking if that was your intention, and I dont see anything hilarious about asking a player if they may be jumping on a convenient bandwagon a little too early.

As for this tidbit:

Yes you were, in fact representing my actions incorrectly. I foSed you, because despite your scummy behavior, the first three votes on you were up to the point, random. When and if those votes are removed, I will vote for you so as to make clear that I was not jumping on a Random-phase wagon, and instead voting you based on my suspicions....The hilarity lies with your reactions, and your actions. Your overt defensiveness is supportive of my suspicions regardless.

[W!nt3r]

Also, I was not representing what you were doing, I was asking if that was your intention, and I dont see anything hilarious about asking a player if they may be jumping on a convenient bandwagon a little too early.

As for this tidbit:

Yes you were, in fact representing my actions incorrectly. I foSed you, because despite your scummy behavior, the first three votes on you were up to the point, random. When and if those votes are removed, I will vote for you so as to make clear that I was not jumping on a Random-phase wagon, and instead voting you based on my suspicions....The hilarity lies with your reactions, and your actions. Your overt defensiveness is supportive of my suspicions regardless.

Hilarity? overt defensiveness?

Your over-reacting, you are the one being defensive

fos winter

unvote

What are you two even arguing about? Whether or not we had all agreed if it was more scummy to use the dice to vote? if so then do you not agree winter? And if not why not.

It's not a matter of me agreeing or not, she (strappado) said that "I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing." this is incorrect as, like she said, I did not give my input on said subject.

I fosed her for assuming "we" were in agreement.

She reacted with a post that was not at all needed. Then she again, misinformed, posted with an assumption that I had made it clear i was ready to even vote her. This was not the case.

I then posted as much, pointing out further flaws in her "argument," if it can even be called that. She made an unfounded assumption, when I called her out on it, she reacted in a defensive manner... i am not at all defending any of my actions, PM. Instead, it would seem, I am the one making the attacks... Is this not the case? Please site my over reaction, so that I may be properly refuted.

[W!nt3r]

Well put brandi. I would also like to ask, why did you push such a simple point so furiously and be prepared to vote him for as you put it a "mis-understanding"

As far as I see it there was no mis-understanding as no-one has disagreed that it looks scummy, plus if you look at his initial post he says:

I think

we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

He doesnt exactly say, Everyone 100% fully agrees that...

He says I think...

Oh and for those of you that dont know IGMEOY means, its: I've Got My Eye On You. Essentially its the same as FOS- Finger Of Suspicion except used less commonly. Its used for when you find someone suspicious but not enough to vote them.

Firstly, I believe Strap may be female as it display's the "female" symbol next to her avatar.

Secondly I pushed it because it would get a reaction... reactions are used to find scum. I got reactions. Welcome to mafia.

Third, I'd like to address brandi's post:

So first you say that she is in the wrong for assuming that you were going to vote for her, yet you turn around and say that once a few votes are removed from her you are going to vote for her? What is the point in that?

I said I had made no previous mention of voting her. It was silly of her to make the assumption. Then... with that information (her reaction to me saying I would not vote for her) she gave me the impression that she was flustered and scrambling to find something to say. This reaction leads me to believe that she was looking to force debate on something unfounded. I then proceeded to mention that i would vote for her. Do you notice how my mention of voting her came AFTER her second response? it is called a progression of events. i also made clear why I would vote her.

Additionally, brandi your quote:

"Really, what scummy behavior? I've seen no indication of such. "

I have to say that misrepresentation of information is a VERY BIG SCUM TELL, especially in noobie games, when players don't always make 2 or even 3 reads through a game thread. To misrepresent information, however vital, is deceptive to the other players. Deception is a tactic any scum will employ to play properly. Townies should have NO reason to misrepresent or deceive.

"You are over reacting in the sense that there was no point in attacking Strap in the first place. In fact it seems like you were looking for the tiniest most insignificant thing to expose in attempts to try to turn someone into lynch-bait. "

This is called scumhunting. It is used to divulge scumtells that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. It is a tactful way to get out of the random phase.

[W!nt3r]

oh and one more comment before I'm out.

About the whole W!nt3r baiting you guys, GJ winter you defiantly got the game rolling but mabye next time a little bait and switch would be more effective in drawing out the mafia.

A wider net is bound to catch more fish.

Heaven's net is wide but it's mesh is fine.


@PM: Where is your clarification on what I said that can be construed as over-reacting? I must have missed it and would like to address it.

@Brandi: sorry for the absence of quoteboxes... I'll use them in the future. Also yes claiming to be 18 while really 16 can be a scum tell if we find out the truth because that means that the player in question is "capable" of lying/deceit. Profiling players based on their previous actions is metagaming, and deceit as mafia is a trait that is hard to ignore. Now weather strap's misrepresentation was intended or not should be the real point of discussion. I am inclined to believe that it was a "simple misunderstanding" but her responses to my pushing the point do give off a rather distasteful gleam.

@j-man again: Your second part here:

that is where our opinions differ, i find that it is less of a scum tell in newbie games except in some cases, but thats walking both sides of the fence, and we can't have that.

I think, to clearify, it is 50/50 in a noobie game as either VERY BIG SCUM TELL/not at all important. I agree that this may not be the former but at the same time it is not the latter. I feel it safely falls squarely in the middle.

@babygirl: Don't worry it's only really been a day or two, i think since you last posted... school > mafia... I still don't understand how my actions are being construed as "Defensiveness." Can someone please explain this to me further?


@ everyone: I have answered the questions posed to me in regards to my actions... If this constitutes "over reaction" and "defensiveness" then I will shift to making blind attacks and not taking any questions asked of me into account.

[W!nt3r]

Did you think that I said that diceroll was ok to use or did you deliberately falsify to get a reaction?

I was under the impression you were implying that the consensus was that dice were okay ... If this is not the case, the statement is formally retracted.

However in either case... I was questioning your reasoning for a reaction.


As for my opinion on the subject: I think it's a player choice. It's also a player choice on how to read it... I personally wouldn't use it.

[W!nt3r]

Did you think that I said that diceroll was ok to use or did you deliberately falsify to get a reaction?

I was under the impression you were implying that the consensus was that dice were okay ... If this is not the case, the statement is formally retracted.

However in either case... I was questioning your reasoning for a reaction.


As for my opinion on the subject: I think it's a player choice. It's also a player choice on how to read it... I personally wouldn't use it.

EBWOP: "that dice were okay but not always a good idea..."

[W!nt3r]

but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Then please by all means keep your feet firmly planted.

[W!nt3r]

Can you please show me where I become defensive... I've asked this many times to no avail.

My "defensiveness" is being used as a basis for a case against me, yet you can not give me evidence of such actions on my part.

[W!nt3r]

Just look at your last two posts, as soon as tarta accuses you you hit out at him. A few times people have called you defensive and you have been like Theres no way im defensive! which is quite ironic.

Stating Fact is not the same as Being Defensive.

I commented that several people have used my nonexistant defensiveness as a basis for cases against me. I asked to see evidence of such action... It was not shown... this is a fact... This is not my defense... It really did happened.


Also... You are making the assumption that my comment: "Then please keep your feet firmly planted" was an attack against Tartarian. This is incorrect. To clearify I was making a joke at his expense, because I am of an opinion very similar to yours in that, he contradicted himself with his post.


@Dean: Obviously we did not all know what it was because strap erred in calling the discourse a discussion. Your point is moot. I take it your comment on brandi's post was to site additional points that you agree with? please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, I apologize for my misspelling of whether, I've had problems with spelling since I was a child and things of that nature still get me.

[W!nt3r]

... except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive.

Well look at it this way... Would a man who is arrested in the united states go to court without first knowing the charges against him? No he would not.

I was never made aware of "what" I had done that was being misconstrued as over-reaction. I repeatedly asked that it be made explicitly clear what the issue was, and was repeatedly ignored. Would not letting the accused know what the accusations entail be the moral and just way of doing it?

[W!nt3r]

in any case your beating a dead point winter. let it go.

How interesting....
Seeing as I'm not currently voting:

VOTE J-Man

His WIFOM statement regarding my play is just unbearable to understand/think about, and this little tidbit, along with his unusually misogynistic comment regarding Brandi makes me foam at the mouth for blood. Regardless of his alignment, like brandi said... he's playing very Anti-town at this point.

[W!nt3r]

I think that post is more clear on what I was trying to say.

This is true, but I also think that my Verbose nature may be attributing to PM's false sense of "over-reaction" on my part...

Is this possible, PM?

[W!nt3r]

in any case your beating a dead point winter. let it go.

well since you guys really took this strangely I will give you as much of a explanation as I can. When i wrote this i was unaware of posts 101-103 it was meant to be a direct reply to winters post 100. And one of us don't understand WIFOM winter because that statement is not that as I understand it.
Finally why i wrote it, I wrote it to tell winter i thought i saw quite clearly, people were willing to let it go and winter was only causing the town damage by not allowing us to get past that little thing which i am sure no one can effectively defend, points that have been adequately verified by the above posts/discussion.

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me, but I'll tell you this I am no more careful townie or scum, I generally like to post without knowing my alignment.

And IGMEOY winter misrepresentation is no minor sin especially against me.
(I would happily withdraw that if that is indeed WIFOMn')

Firstly: THIS IS SUCH A STUPID POST. What do you mean you post without knowing your alignment?

Thats ridiculous.

Second, i was referencing your post on my play style as WIFOM. You post this rather offhanded remark about how my scumhunting is so good, then turn around and post this obtuse, and ignorant "what if?" about my alignment... It just seemed out of touch with the rest of your posts... like you were throwing it in to maybe partition me in the who know category without backing up your suspicions.

Third, I am of the same belief that JohnthePhox is the one who's being replaced maybe?

[W!nt3r]

EBWOP: jamesthephox... silly me...

[W!nt3r]

My mental lexicon transcends, tenfold, the passable American student's competence for verbal intellectual hold.

In other words: Yeah... I like words.

@ Tartarian: Band-wagoning is rather unhelpful for your case should we go to day two with 2 dead townspeople.

[W!nt3r]

Either he's mafia, or he's just horrible at making sense.

EBWOP:

You've used a rather similar line of thinking against me. I suggest you re-think the way you word your accusations and subsequent defenses.

You're getting scummier by-the-post Tart...

[W!nt3r]

I'm not trying to bandwagon.

But you are.

[W!nt3r]

For one thing, the idiot thing was kinda a joke. And if he can't speak English well, I'd like him to come out and say it (because its a perfectly good excuse for his strange post if he was trying to say something else but didn't know how).

And J-man, I meant for you to say how much you like W!n's style of gameplay and think that he is playing superbly in front of everyone seems like you're trying to make him seem much less scummy and defending his innocence. Its fine if you think that and say it at the end of the game in a congratulations post, but it looks like you're trying to use that to influince people's decisions about W!n's innocence (and this is a fairly scummy way to do so).

Sorry about my not giving a reason at first for voting J-man, it was fairly late and I had lots of homework to do.

And babygirl, please give us an excuse for you're not posting very often.

Anyways, here's my scum-o-meter count in order from whom I think is the most scummy to the least scummy: (not going to post reasons right now, I'll do a reread later then give you some)

People I think might be scum:
J-Man - Reasons posted in this and previous posts
W!nt3r - Reasons posted in previous posts (too defensive)
pmchugh - I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

People I think are probably innocent:
strappado- doesn't seem too scummy, but more so than Brandi or James
Brandi - if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game. He's playing very pro-town and is very aggressive/active. I for one would be very surprised if he is scum, although you never know in mafia...I'd like to see how he acts when there is fewer players.

People I'm reserving judgement on:
James - reserving judgement since he is being replaced, but I don't think he was scummy (again, I'll do a reread later).
babygirl - reserving judgement since she hasn't posted anything scummy but has barely posted at all! (lurking maybe?)

This post reeks of scum.

1. J-man's post clearly states that he thinks I may be scum, but is not sure.

This is scummy because::::: It seems your are ignoring this part of his post.

2. If i have to explain again that my posts were not at all defensive in nature I'm going to slap someone. This is getting frustrating. Defensive implies that I was attacked on a point of action I took, and subsequently tried to justify my point. My posts (outside of responding to the posts on my supposed defensiveness) have not met this prerequisite attribute.

This is scummy because::::: Further misrep by stating again that I am doing something I am not/have already gone over.

3.

I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

... I can't even begin to express the poor quality of play here.

This is scummy because::::: it's not, poor playing.

4.

if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game.

Contradiction much? (Brandi is a She as well.)

This is scummy because::::: it's not... this is bad play.

5. Where lies Dean?

This is scummy because::::: You left a player out, which can mean several things. Posting them would lead to too much WIFOM discussions.

6. Can you do us one better than re-phrasing what you've already said or what others have already said?

This is scummy because::::: You're rehashing, active lurking

.

Major Super Ultra Omega Special Exquisite Overbearing FOS: TartarianCerberus

Actually, disregard that:

Unvote

Vote TartarianCerberus

[W!nt3r]

Ok... On a re-read you've voted 5 people in 13 posts. twice you've wagoned, twice you've voteswitched based on "they both seem scummy, but because this one is attacking me, i'll vote him"

Confirm vote: TC

Intent to lynch, no changing.

[W!nt3r]

... damn and here i thought this was going to be a good game.

/is a cop