Newbie 612: Cancelled due to mod error

[TartarianCerberus]

what dice roll thing?

[TartarianCerberus]

Vote: pmchuck

for not posting yet.

[TartarianCerberus]

[q]Vote: TartarianCerberus for screwing up his hot link, its 612 not 621[/q]

My bad, I'll fix it now

unvote: pmchuck

, like chugh says, he never existed anyways :p.

So, I'll

vote: strappado

for having first post and dice rolling.

[TartarianCerberus]

omg, the [q] doesn't work at mafiascum!

[TartarianCerberus]

okey-dokey then (because my vote was

mostly

random too).

Unvote: strappado

[TartarianCerberus]

strappado: I have to sleep and go to classes every now and then .

This whole discussion has me very confused, I read it two or three times before I could make anything of it. I think that all of you are just overreacting to everything. I know that overreacting is necessary to find scum and see reactions, but you guys are carrying this a little too far. I think we all concur now that using dice is a bit scummy, but at first no one knew any beter. People saw more experienced players do it in other games (i think), and wanted to do it themselves without thinking that much about it. Therefore, the dice used in this game have less to do with people being scum, and more to do with people's personal strategy at the beginning of the game. I think it's time to move past the whole dice roll thing, since it really can't prove anything. Instead, we should stop discussing it and all look back and look at people's reactions (which I'm gonna do right now). Those people who have been more defensive probably have a higher chance of being scum.

[TartarianCerberus]

I suspect that W!n is mafia. If you reread his posts, he just seems kinda scummy. He's both extremely defensive and offensive. I think he is scum and is pushing for strappado because it's a sensible move to make (doesn't appear too scummy, Brandi was already questioning strappado). Or he could be scumbuddies with strap and trying to distance themselves, but I doubt it, they're a little too against each other. I'm pretty sure one of them is scum, and I'm leaning towards W!n right now. Alternatively, Brandi could be scumbuddies with strap or W!n, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. I think our best bet is to go for W!n right now.

Vote: W!nt3r

Btw, before the change in roles, me and W!n were mafia together. Wouldn't be shocked if he still is. (My role changed, I swear)

[TartarianCerberus]

I'm just saying, to me you look like the most likely person to be scum. There's a 4/5 chance I'm wrong though, but we have to start somewhere.

[TartarianCerberus]

This is ridiculous...

Unvote: W!nt3r, Vote: J-Man

(or td if Noriniel's replacing J-Man, I think he meant James), just for acting all-around scummy. Either he's mafia, or he's just horrible at making sense.

[TartarianCerberus]

I'm not trying to bandwagon. I read some of J-Man's recent posts and they are much more scummy than yours. (If I didn't do it already,

FoS: W!nt3r

. I'm not trying to leap on anything, but if I see someone acting scummy and think that they should be lynched, I will vote for them, regardless of the number of votes that they currently have.

[TartarianCerberus]

I could have sworn a posted something about W!nt3r and one comment about J on page four, but I don't see it there now...ah well, I was having some trouble with the servers earlier.

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me, but I'll tell you this I am no more careful townie or scum, I generally like to post without knowing my alignment.

This post alone is enough too lynch him. Either he is

1. An idiot.
   
2. Someone who can't speak English very well.
   
3. Scum.
   
4. All of the above.

I'm leading towards C or D right now. (No offense intended here J, I'm partially joking )

I think that what W!nt3r did was very well done and a very good move, except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive. He has set himself up in a very good place in the first pages making himself important through his many early posts. He has set himself up to be a powerful player, a good move for any player that feels confident either in his scum hunting or townie impersonation.

I say Good Job W!nt3r, although you have put me in a tough spot, now i have to figure out whether you are scum or not. Though who knows til your dead eh?

I agree with what J is saying here, but putting it into words just seems kinda...scummy. It seems like he's defending W!n a little harder than necessary.

I'm not too certain, but one reason why Tartar may not be divulging too much into discussion could be because he is new. I am new myself I suppose. (This is my first game) But I think all newbies play their first game differently. I'm not saying its anything good that hes not discussing as much, but I think that it might just be a newb-tell and not a scum-tell.

It's my first game too! (aside rom playing a theme game at another forum by trying to get five people to call me an idiot )

I would go back and read more, but I need to go to bed now. See ya.

[TartarianCerberus]

For one thing, the idiot thing was kinda a joke. And if he can't speak English well, I'd like him to come out and say it (because its a perfectly good excuse for his strange post if he was trying to say something else but didn't know how).

And J-man, I meant for you to say how much you like W!n's style of gameplay and think that he is playing superbly in front of everyone seems like you're trying to make him seem much less scummy and defending his innocence. Its fine if you think that and say it at the end of the game in a congratulations post, but it looks like you're trying to use that to influince people's decisions about W!n's innocence (and this is a fairly scummy way to do so).

Sorry about my not giving a reason at first for voting J-man, it was fairly late and I had lots of homework to do.

And babygirl, please give us an excuse for you're not posting very often.

Anyways, here's my scum-o-meter count in order from whom I think is the most scummy to the least scummy: (not going to post reasons right now, I'll do a reread later then give you some)

People I think might be scum:
J-Man - Reasons posted in this and previous posts
W!nt3r - Reasons posted in previous posts (too defensive)
pmchugh - I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

People I think are probably innocent:
strappado- doesn't seem too scummy, but more so than Brandi or James
Brandi - if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game. He's playing very pro-town and is very aggressive/active. I for one would be very surprised if he is scum, although you never know in mafia...I'd like to see how he acts when there is fewer players.

People I'm reserving judgement on:
James - reserving judgement since he is being replaced, but I don't think he was scummy (again, I'll do a reread later).
babygirl - reserving judgement since she hasn't posted anything scummy but has barely posted at all! (lurking maybe?)

[TartarianCerberus]

Tart, D: Im a girl

Whoops...

Also you forgot to include Dean Harper into your scum o-meter =o

Again, whoops... Forgot all about you Dean. I don't remember seeing you do anything scummy, but that's not to say that mafia don't try to blend in...

This post reeks of scum.

1. J-man's post clearly states that he thinks I may be scum, but is not sure. This is scummy because::::: It seems your are ignoring this part of his post.

2. If i have to explain again that my posts were not at all defensive in nature I'm going to slap someone. This is getting frustrating. Defensive implies that I was attacked on a point of action I took, and subsequently tried to justify my point. My posts (outside of responding to the posts on my supposed defensiveness) have not met this prerequisite attribute. This is scummy because::::: Further misrep by stating again that I am doing something I am not/have already gone over.

3. Quote:
I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

... I can't even begin to express the poor quality of play here. This is scummy because::::: it's not, poor playing.

4. Quote:
if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game.

Contradiction much? (Brandi is a She as well.) This is scummy because::::: it's not... this is bad play.

5. Where lies Dean? This is scummy because::::: You left a player out, which can mean several things. Posting them would lead to too much WIFOM discussions.

6. Can you do us one better than re-phrasing what you've already said or what others have already said? This is scummy because::::: You're rehashing, active lurking.

I think that what W!nt3r did was very well done and a very good move, except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive. He has set himself up in a very good place in the first pages making himself important through his many early posts. He has set himself up to be a powerful player, a good move for any player that feels confident either in his scum hunting or townie impersonation.

I say Good Job W!nt3r, although you have put me in a tough spot, now i have to figure out whether you are scum or not. Though who knows til your dead eh?

1. I never said that he outright claimed you were innocent (and I know that he did say that he was unsure), but (a)he did not give any reasons for or against you and (b)his talking about your gameplay might have been intended to subtely influince people's opinions of you

2. I think that your posts were a little on the defensive side throughout the game. That is my anylization of your posts, and I think others probably agree with me. The second someone says anything about you, you instantly lash out at them. If you were a townie, I think you'd be a little more calm in your responses.

3. I was tired, it was late at night, and I had about 2 hours of homework to do. Then later I got a fever of 103. Anyways, no that I have some time to look back to earlier posts...There is no reason for me to suspect him of being scum. So sorry. Must have gotten him confused with you.

4. Again, sorry about calling Brandi a she. Brandi just seems like a male name to me...I'll just have to get used to it I guess. Anyways, I meant that Brandi was remaining calm throughout the game. She never lurked (was not afraid to say anything scummy about other players), but, unlike you, she did not play to offensively or too defensively. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Brandi is one of the IC's. If this was her second or third game, maybe first time as scum, I don't think that she'd be able to stay this far under the radar. Of course, she might just be quick at picking up things. But I don't think it would be wise to convict someone of being scum for not being scummy.

5. I completely forgot to include Dean. Like I said, I was in a rush. Now that I have been reminded about Dean's existince, I'd say that he has not done anything scummy, although he hasn't been making many large posts, and therefore might be trying to just stay under the radar as scum.

6. I'm not trying to rephrase anything. I do agree with other players on some issues (such as your defensiveness). THat does not mean that I'm just lurking. To make an analogy, if two third graders were doing math problems together, and they both said that 2 + 2 = 4, would you instantly assume that because they got the same answer one of them had to have cheated off the other? That they both couldn't have simply arrived at the same answer through the same reasoning?

[TartarianCerberus]

TC. To start off, I'm definately not a fan of criticizing other players for their gameplay(ie. your an idiot, you don't speak english, etc.) I've been criticized for my gameplay as town before and it doesn't feel good- joking or not. But moving past that... First scummy move was putting strappado at lynch-2 for a random reason... if your not scum, that definately wasn't a pro-town move. After that, he was rather quiet(I'm not saying that's a scumtell tho- I was too. I understand that school and work are bitches). I don't understand him bringing up the original roles...maybe trying to make us believe that he has a different role when he really didn't? It is a definate possibility that although the roles were re-distributed, it is possible for some people to have the same role. After that, his posts mainly seem to consist of attacking people for extremely vague reasons. I don't like the way he's playing this game... I get a huge scum-vibe from him.

The idiot thing was a joke (a bad joke but a joke nonheless). I said it because to me he wasn't making any sense at all. I wasn't critisizing him for not being able to speak Engliosh, I was saying that that was a leginimate excuse for his not making sense. There are many people who do not have English as their native tounge, and therefore sometimes are not able to be clear about what they are trying to say. For all I know, J-man could have been born in China or France or something. The whole role thing I just put out there, just for everyone to know. It is useless information, and unneccessary. I would use that information the same way if I was town as I would use it if I was scum. I don't think that I have been attacking people really, just stating my suspicions about them. Right now I'm really getting a scum-vibe from Winter. (Btw

Unvote: j-man, vote: W!nt3r

, I keep changing my mind on which to vote for, the both seem pretty scummy).

[TartarianCerberus]

Just looking at your last post at a glance TC, vote hopping is somewhat scummy.

That's because I'm honestly not sure which of them is more scummy. I find them both very scummy, for reasons I stated on the previous page. Whichever one of them you guys feel more confident lynching, I'm up for it.

@Brandi:
Wow. That has to be the longest mafia post I have ever seen. I agree with you in saying that j-man is the most scummy (especially because of his complimenting winter, and his confusing post about not knowing whether he is scum or townie -- I'd still like him to elaborate on that), and for that reason he and winter are most likely to be scumbuddies, as winter has been overly defensive and attacking people for no good reason (e.g. strappado). I'd like to see if one of them are lynched if the other's style of playing changes at all...That's interesting about the straw man argument you brought up there. Never heard of it before, but it does seem to match what winter was doing at that time quite nicely. With winter, I think it's definately all about extremes. Either he's playing like he's playing so he can hunt out scum very efficiantly, or he's playing as a diehard scum. I agree with what you're saying about j-man complimenting winter and then not making a decision -- i said it myself a few posts back.

W!nt3r is the first to note towards Tartars fallacy by stating:

@ Tartarian: Band-wagoning is rather unhelpful for your case should we go to day two with 2 dead townspeople.

Tartar had already much earlier made it apparent that he was not one to get too in depth by formulating any serious opinions and just going a long with what others had said. This is definitely not a good way to play, but in no way can I possibly understand how this makes him more scummy than someone who has claimed

I think I have been formulating serious opinions, etc., but I have agreed with what alot of other people are saying. If many people are looking at one scummy post by j-man, the'res a good chance the'll have the same opinion as other people looking at the post. Also, I just noticed about the thing winter said about 2 dead townspeople: could that mean that he was implying that he thought that there was nothing scummy about j-man? if so, that's another example of why it's likely for them to be scumbuddies.

Now, about j-mans post: it's one of the scummiest things I've seen him post so far, which is saying alot since basically everything he posts is very scummy or mindlessly agreeing with whatever winter says or does.

Brandi you seem to like to post alot but as far as I know I voted for TC way back on the first page and haven't looked back since

So you are you saying that you voted for me on the first page because you thought I was scummy because I screwed up a hotlink in my signature? I do hope that that was just a confusing sentance and not what I thought it was saying...

I thought TCs guilt was becoming more clear rather then less clear to the rest of you, *sigh*

Can you tell us exactly why you think I am guilty? Because as far as I can remember, you haven't given us a solid reason throughout the entire game, but have just been following along with what winter was saying.

And about your fabricated W!nt3r-Jman connection its silly, I can explain exactly why I have been wavering on W!nt3rs guilt, its because he has been playing well and his posts say one thing when my instinct say another. I'm sorry if you have a problem with me complimenting people but mabye you should try reading my posts and taking them at there face value because that what they are. Maybe try looking at it from my POV, mine being that I'm pro-town ofcourse. Who else is there to Accuse... well do what you must.

So you're saying that we should start taking all posts at face value instead of actually thinking about them? I think that you might have come to the wrong website if you wanted to not think.

I would not be surprised if it was a TC W!nt3r scum pair

This is the scummiest part of your post by far. Would you mind telling us why you think that it might be a TC Winter scum pair? Because you have given us no reason at all, and if I was you I would be shocked if two people trying to get the other lynched for half the game were scumbuddies.

[TartarianCerberus]

OMG. I say we lynch them all until we find the real cop, then lynch the other liars. This certainly adds a new twist to the game. We should probably lynch J-man first, since he was the only one already on our radar before the cop claims.

Btw, J-

TC you don't understand the mechanics of a scum pair if you believe your last line.

This is the scummiest part of your post by far. Would you mind telling us why you think that it might be a TC Winter scum pair? Because you have given us no reason at all, and if I was you I would be shocked if two people trying to get the other lynched for half the game were scumbuddies.

THAT IS EXACTLY THE WHAT MOST MAFIA PARTNERS DO, oh my no wonder your guys think i am mafia, sometimes i forget im in a newbie game . One of the most effective strategies in mafia for the mafia is to sell out your partner it is often not done til a reasonable townsperson would do it so that people don't get suspicious, and often they just verbally joust for the entire game or even part of it it is called distancing. If one of them are lynched then the other looks good, a win win situation for the mafia. Any of the IC's should be able to back this up with experience, It's true and I can't believe that people don't know even that basic of tactic, I guess thats why there are newbie games lol

Yeah, I know a little bit of suspicion, a little FoS here and there is a good thing for scum to do, but for them to actually campaign to get the other lynched without being desperate? i just don't see it.

[TartarianCerberus]

You know, this whole thing would be friggin' hilarious if this was the setup with 2 goons and 7 townies -- no power roles?

[TartarianCerberus]

Come on strap, there's no way mod made a mistake and told three people they were cop. I say just lynch them.

[TartarianCerberus]

Fine. I'm just anxious to move on to a new day when we have more information (cop investigate -- although now that we have three cops it probably won't do much good ), see who mafia killed so we can see who would like to kill who, etc. But I guess you're right.

[TartarianCerberus]

Noriniel, you can just tell us whether or not there are multiple cop roles even if people are lying since no setups you said we might have include more than one cop.

This is crazy...:p

[TartarianCerberus]

or mabye your the bad player Brandi since you never did give me a chance you have been running headlong at me since my first posts.

He probably did that because your first posts were extremely scummy. I wouldn't be very surprised if you're still lying about the whole cop thing. Unless you're sure that you wouldn't be NKed (i.e. unless you're scum), I doubt you would claim cop on day one.

My theory is that J is scum, babygirl only claimed cop because j made a comment about "no one claim after me" or something and she just was trying to see reactions/spur up some action/see what j would say/etc., and pm is the real cop.

[TartarianCerberus]

Let's have someone vote for j. If the mod didn't mess up, then j is the most likely target. If the mod did mess up, it won't matter anyways, seeing as we'll have to basically start the whole game over.

[TartarianCerberus]

nah, I have my vote for j-man right now. The whole cop fiasco has made me even more suspicious of him (its probably another desperate act, like trying to make people think that me and winter were scumbuddies a nd saying that he didn't know whether or not he was scum or town In fact, J-MAN COULD YOU PLEASE TELL US HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO HONESTLY CLAIM COP IF YOU POSTED THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WERE SCUM OR TOWN?)

[TartarianCerberus]

whoops I thought I did make another post after that...probably those damn server problems again. I click the submit button, then it sends me to one of those white pages with the error messages. I click back, and then I lost everything I posted.

Anyways,

Vote: J-Man

[TartarianCerberus]

Let's have a post war!

[TartarianCerberus]

Btw, Brandi, how many games have you been in at MS?

[TartarianCerberus]

Why do you think I'm scum?

But OMG THERE'S FOUR COPS? But scratch that, for I to have a confession to make -- SO AM I! (lol). Mod definately messed up. I thought that with four cops, there was still a slight chance he didn't -- but with five!?!?!?! lol.

My guess is that dean, strappado, or james are scum. I'm getting a scum-vibe from dean though, since he hasn't done many anylitical posts that I've noticed (although I wouldn't say he's lurking). I was almost positive that J was scum until now I know that there are FIVE COPS? (unless some people are lying). All I can say is...rotfl.

[TartarianCerberus]

Btw, unless it wasn't clear -- I'm a cop too.

I wonder if strappado or dean are cops? :p

Maybe there's all cops and now scum at all! Better yet -- maybe the scum are doctors instead!

[TartarianCerberus]

you're a cop too? well it seemed scummy you were so anxious to get into night phase. Also your dialog with strap too. She was posting lots of WIFOM.

I wanted to get into night so I could investigate winter/j-man, depending on who was voted out. I was trying to get strap to vote out j so we could hurry on to night and investigations could be done.

LOL TC you are such a hack lol die scum die

and again I have no idea what you are talking about. Please be much clearer in your posts next game.

Anyways, this leaves strappado and james to be scum. It's pretty unfair that James was scum because he hardly ever posted. So, all we can do is and see what happens next game....should be interesting since we all know each other's gameplay strategies and can try to see whose gameplay changes.

[TartarianCerberus]

I liked it a lot, it was fun for my first game, though its never going to be finished. Maybe the next game will work out better XP

It was definately a lot of fun, that's for sure

So J, what did you mean about not knowing whether you're town or scum?

[TartarianCerberus]

Also Tartar you LIED TO ME. But I knew you were lying. ;P

Sorry, it was just in case Noriniel didn't make a mistake...which was very unlikely. J-man, next time you're pro-town play a little less scummy. AND WTF DID YOU MEAN BY NOT KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE PRO-TOWN OR ANTI-TOWN? A pity. I enjoyed being mafia, even though I've never played town before at MS. Well, I'll go do /in for next at the Queue. See you all in some other game !

[TartarianCerberus]

/in for another newbie