The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[Kinetic]

Original Roll String: 1d25

1 25-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

[Kinetic]

Vote: Aimee

[Kinetic]

??? I rolled 25 and I skipped my own number... How is that fail? If I rolled 26 and rolled myself, that would have been fail.

[Kinetic]

lol, very well, but I don't see the point in a random self vote

[Kinetic]

[Kinetic]

Vote:KD

YOU BROKE THE CHAIN!

[Kinetic]

When in doubt, blatantly bandwagon.

unvote, vote:Mariyta

[Kinetic]

Vote:YagamiLight

You want to lynch someone for wanting to lynch BM? Are you BM's scum buddy?

[Kinetic]

Unvote, Vote: Kscope

I do not have words for the irony of this vote.

[Kinetic]

o.O? O....k...

Nah, but you wouldn't understand why its ironic BM. But someone who is currently voting for KScope might .

[Kinetic]

BM, its an inside joke. You're not invited .

[Kinetic]

/agree

[Kinetic]

/agree

homophobe.

I never said I hated your lifestyle choice, only that you like to take it in the bum.

[Kinetic]

/agree

homophobe.

I never said I hated your lifestyle choice, only that you like to take it in the bum.

incorrect. You confirmed agreement with a statement which used the term 'gay' to mean something detrimental-something i would expect from a 5 year old. Even Jathan knows better. It can be assumed that Albert did not mean 'gay' literally, but you seem to have failed to realise this. Do you see now why it is impossible for people to take what you say seriously?

Albert's statement only stated that the both of you were homosexual. Thus, when you responded to me with the following text, "homophobe" I figured you were indeed confirming the fact that you were homosexual, and then took issue with me. I then deduced that you believed I had a problem with that, but I did not.

Go be as gay as you want to be BM.

[Kinetic]

What exactly would item claiming entail? Would we claim all the items we currently have? Would we claim what items come from out store? Would we claim the items we need? I'm a little confused as to where item claiming begins and ends...

[Kinetic]

I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.

First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.

Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.

Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.

I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.

[Kinetic]

Looks like constructive discussion has ceased... if it ever began. I'm going to go sleep in the corner, wake me when you guys start playing the game.

[Kinetic]

I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.

First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.

Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.

Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.

I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.

Looks like constructive discussion has ceased... if it ever began. I'm going to go sleep in the corner, wake me when you guys start playing the game.

If you're so worried about us "not being constructive", why don't you actually contribute something "constructive"?

I find it funny that everyone (save MOS) just ignored this.

[Kinetic]

Unvote;Vote:KScope

I see what you're saying MOS. Still don't like the item claim idea, (Mainly because it really hasn't been established -.-, and people keep making up new rules and there seems to be no consistency -.-.)

That being said this claim is already going better than the last one, lol.

[Kinetic]

You'll understand later YL. Those of us who are quick on the uptake just put a lot of things together from other sources.

[Kinetic]

Sorry I was a little afk guys. Limited Access do to tests.

I did not give an item. And while I'm here, I may as well say that I am not holding an item either. I must have dropped it somewhere around here...

[Kinetic]

Umm, FYE is a music store guys. Might be where he got the CD from... and if he's the winemaker... he might have MADE the other item he has... which throws my main theory on his scum out the window...

Unvote

[Kinetic]

Vote:Fritzler

The STUDENT has become the TEACHER!

And umm, I'm just following Fritz's logic. He said we have to follow what Ibaesha says. And she says you be lyin' scum.

[Kinetic]

Day One

As people walk around in the morning they find some items lying around the town square.

Items on the ground:

1. Survivor DVD
   Purse
   Messenger
   Cloth
   Blockus
   Chocolate Chip Cookies
   Blackberries
   Unreal Tournament Disc
   Staples
   Fish

After looking around they find the body of scotmany12, the explorer possessed by the ghost of Megan. You notice that the back alley behind a couple of Freaktown businesses has been destroyed. The town checks for any items on scotmany12 and found Painkillers, they put it in the pile of items on the courthouse lawn.

Megan

played by

scotmany12

, Killed

Night 1

Everyone enters the courthouse to discuss what they should do about the death of scotmany12. When they enter they see three Newspapers. The town passes the Newspapers around looking at the headlines.

The Freaktown Sun-Times

Mafia seen in nearby stores giving each other objects

The Freaktown Enquirer

Mafia can eat twice as much as normal citizens

Mafia Courier-Journal

Mafia’s control includes half the town

With 26 alive it will take 14 votes to convict someone.

Poor Fritzy. Survivor was on the ground at the beginning of the day. Looks like someone picked it up...

[Kinetic]

I have stated all I will on the item claim. The terms keep changing and if there was discussion before the given terms were set, I would have pointed something out: Mainly that you can possibly derive the store from which your item came from based on what you dropped. I don't want to give that information out to the scum at the current time, it is something I feel the scum could make much more use of then the town.

I'm not sure how the "dead" shops work, but it seems to me those items are not going to be lost forever. Either someone has an ability that lets them loot dead character's stores (which seems like a scummy ability to me, but it could be town), the item rolled for on the list is "dropped" from the store at the beginning of the next day, or people can just choose to steal from the store at will (the doors are open, we can see all the items), I think it is a little crazy to give out that information yet. I would hate to be night killed because some scum wants the items in my store. So I refuse to tell them where I'm from.

As I understand it the point of the item claim is to determine who is holding what. If someone doesn't claim to have picked up what I dropped, I would make a note of it and maybe say something, but I'm sure someone would notice if an item that was on the ground wasn't claimed. I will also definitely claim what item I dropped if someone decides to be a wise guy and claim to have dropped something I actually dropped.

Also, the only reason I even claimed I had nothing was because I in fact have nothing. I don't really think going through with the item claim is a good idea, solely on the principal that the scum could kill someone who has an item they need. If I was actually holding something I would have been a lot more vehement against this item claim, and its possible I might even be so tomorrow. But since people started claiming before we even knew

what

to claim, I'm really unsure on how to proceed at this point.

Some people just "assume" we'll do this everyday, while others think its a one day thing, and while others still don't actually completely agree on the terms that seem to have been pushed forward.

That being said, if everyone else claims what they dropped you can most likely guess what I dropped from what hasn't been claimed.

[Kinetic]

Sounds like scum or SK who's trying to avoid being nightkilled. Townies have nothing to fear from a NK.

*agree*
And since I'm no longer happy with my kscope vote...

unvote, vote Kinetic

I didn't really like his post where he claimed that I said Fritz was lying scum, either. Because I didn't. When I made the post regarding Fritz's claim, I actually felt it was -more- likely that Fritz didn't pay attention to his PMs than that he was lying. If I had truly felt that Fritz was lying, my post would've been accompanied by a vote. Note: it wasn't.

Also, in regards to Kinetic's last post:
I think it's more likely that scum would be trying to figure out who has what stores than town. Because Kinetic is thinking from that perspective, it hints to me that he's possible scum attempting to do just that. People who think like scum, tend to be scum. Just sayin'.

Well I was kind of half joking about the whole Fritz thing. I kinda thought it was funny since the way he attached himself to you earlier I half thought it might be because he knew about the item. When he claimed he didn't (or at least you pointed out he never said anything) I wanted to see what Fritz/you would do about the increased pressure/attention.

Unvote

, mainly because I've pretty much accomplished what I set out for.

And Ibby, I think about all the possibilities, good and bad, about such a thing that may really effect the town, you know, like a mass item claim. If I felt that I figured something out, I'm going tell the town. I've been mulling it over in my head about why scum might want an item claim, and I've come up with a few reasons (I've mentioned others before). But they're all just speculation. I wish I had more information to go on, or perhaps more discussion, but by the way this went down, and its amazing quickness, I really didn't have much time to think about all the possibilities.

[Kinetic]

Vote IH

Item Goals were the main thing I said the town DIDN'T need to know but scum did. The other slip was not a big deal for me, but this idea is anti-town.

[Kinetic]

Well IH, the main reason I don't want to do that, is that while everyone might have an item goal, if some people don't, and there are vanilla in this game that are not scum but don't have an item goal, we have just outed all the power roles to the scum.

[Kinetic]

Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.

[Kinetic]

Because its ibby and its expected.

[Kinetic]

I'm assuming the "you and BM" in Carrotcake's post was referring to myself and BM, but it'd be nice if we got clarification.

Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.

This post is really off. IH is not that much of a target. He has two votes, for fuck's sake. Just because you're voting him does not make him a main target. Hell, you and Battle Mage have two votes, so that'd make you two main targets as well. Why did the list have to stop at IH? And while we're on the subject of the list, K-sc0pe should definitely not be lynched today. As far as I can tell all 4 people voting him don't have a reason to do it. They voted on suspicion I created, and that suspicion is no longer valid at all. K-sc0pe is definitely not someone we should consider for lynch today.

Vote: Kinetic

There, now you're a main target for today. Seems a lot better than the "main targets" you suggested.

I put him on that list because the last 3-4 pages or so have been devoted to people pressuring IH. Not necessarily all voting for him, but I stand by what I said, that he seems to be one of the possible targets. I eliminated myself and BM from the pool because, frankly, the votes on the two of us are either really old and (in the case of BM) irrelevant to the game. BM having 1-2 votes on him at anytime is normal in my opinion.

I agree on KScope, heck I was one of the first ones to vote him and unvote him on the exact same information as you. But that doesn't mean he doesn't still have the most votes.

So let me ask YOU: We have a deadline in 3 %^#*ing days. What should we do? Look at EVERY possible target and try and get SOMETHING going, or just flounder and say, "Hmm well I have no idea what to do?" I think if we have to lynch in 3 days that we SHOULD. It may not be the BEST lynch, but its the town who loses if we don't.

I do personally think IH is possible scum, so yes, I'm going to put him on my list. His response?

Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.

.......

fos:kinetic

Mmmm, can you smell the OMGUS.

[Kinetic]

Thats 3? Mariyta, Kinetic, Carrotcake, the silent speaker

modnote: fixed the problem

[Kinetic]

Alright, since it seems like this isn't a joke (or OMGUS) wagon anymore, can I start hearing some sort of case please?

So far I've had two suspicious votes (Taut, FLC) because of their lack of doing anything but jumping on a bandwagon. Could one of IH/Mari be scum and the scum team is jumping on me to counter-wagon?

So if the people voting me would indulge me to answer a few questions:

So let's see:

Taut: What type of information do you think will be found out by my lynch? Could you elaborate?

Ibby:

I didn't really like his post where he claimed that I said Fritz was lying scum, either. Because I didn't. When I made the post regarding Fritz's claim, I actually felt it was -more- likely that Fritz didn't pay attention to his PMs than that he was lying. If I had truly felt that Fritz was lying, my post would've been accompanied by a vote. Note: it wasn't.

I didn't intend to make it seem like you called Fritz lying scum. It was me who thought Fritz was lying scum, and I thought it was funny that Fritz was defending you earlier (jokingly, I'm sure) with the Mariyata wagon was found to not be telling the whole truth by you.

I personally don't think that Fritz "didn't know" he got the item from you, or that he had it. That seemed very suspicious to me. Either he never did get the item and you were trying to communicate in the thread to him so he could say so, or he did get it and was trying to hide that fact, not realizing you already partially sold him out. I think the whole thing was scummy, and I wanted to know more. That is why I voted for Fritz.

I've unvoted him because at this time I'm not particularly sure about him, but at this time I'm not willing to pursue it. I'm just going to keep my eyes open.

Also, in regards to Kinetic's last post:
I think it's more likely that scum would be trying to figure out who has what stores than town. Because Kinetic is thinking from that perspective, it hints to me that he's possible scum attempting to do just that. People who think like scum, tend to be scum. Just sayin'.

Well then you don't know me very well at all. I like to think of every possibility and express them. I'm pretty sure you know this about me, but I'll remind you all the same. I'm going to examine as much as I can, using any means that I can. If thinking like scum is scummy, then how are town ever supposed to catch scum? I'm trying to get into the scum's head, trying to figure out their motivations.

For instance, if this mass claim is a scum idea, why would it be? Maybe the scum thought it would be a good idea to get ahead of the mass claim to look town. Maybe certain roles do something, or learn something.

Why would town want to mass claim? Similar reasons I would presume.

FLC:

What do you agree with? Specifically? You have voted me twice, which is odd in that you've only had 5 posts, and you voted me, never unvoted or voted someone else, and then in your very next post, you voted me again... I almost took a double take...

Anyway: The way it looks to me I'm thinking at least one of (IH, Ibby, FLC) are scum, but I can't figure out which. I'm leaning toward IH.

[Kinetic]

all of your posts are offending mey sense of towniness. I agree with myself. You continually and pointlessly argued against a widely accepted item claim. My voting you twice must of been a mistake, but you deserve it you scumbag. you never item-claimed, even though, like, the rest of the town did. Now that people understand your scumminess, you're trying to throw around suspicion on many other people in a pathetic deflection attempt

Wow. Lower the Ad Hom. I'm trying to understand the case against me, and you making personal attacks isn't helping me do anything but want to ignore you and throw you and your arguments by the wayside.

Now first: I don't think arguing against the claim was pointless. In fact I made several points that were not ever addressed by anyone, and were subsequently ignored. That alone makes me suspicious of the people pushing the claim. Until my points are adequately addressed, or at least acknowledged by more than a cursory dismissal, I don't feel quite like playing ball.

Second: I did Item Claim. At least to the extant that I understood we were claiming. The second thing that bothered me about the item claim was that we never fully explained WHAT we were claiming until well after we started claiming. When I claimed, it was exactly the information that MOS asked for at the time. No more, no less. Since then, things have changed about how we are claiming, but my position has not. I still think that, for the most part, this could be a very bad idea. And I don't like jumping into something like this without at least a little bit more information.

Third: About a third of the town has NOT item claimed, even though you assure me that they have. This was the latest list of people that have not item claimed yet:

1. Battle Mage
2. FlyingFoxBat
3. IH
4. JDodge
5. LoudmouthLee
6. MastermindofSin
7. rolandofthewhite
8. soupfly
9. tautology
10. xyzzy

Since then IH has claimed. Taut "claimed" but his claim was pretty much exactly like mine, yet you're not all over him about it.

Let's see who's on this list... OMFG MOS AND BM are there!!!11!!!111!!one

Look, the two players so adamantly pushing the item claim,

even though, like, the rest of the town did

havn't claimed. No, No one's scum alarms are going off.

Something is up. And if I'm the only one who notices it, something is definitely wrong.

Preview Edit: Carrotcake, I have already claimed.

[Kinetic]

Ibby:

I did bring these concerns up before the claim began. They were ignored. That is why I am so frustrated. Here are my three major anti-claim posts. True, one of them was made mid-way through the claim, but I was the only person who was trying to discuss the possibilities. When no one responded, and I found myself talking to just myself, I couldn't do anything but twiddle my thumbs. It was hard for me to think of every possibility, and sometimes it just takes time. Since I was the only one thinking about how this might HURT the town, I couldn't think of everything at once. Some help would have been appreciated.

The first claim I could find (KScopes) was made on the 11th and the 12th. So, I really don't understand how you could say "I should have brought this up before". I did.

What exactly would item claiming entail? Would we claim all the items we currently have? Would we claim what items come from out store? Would we claim the items we need? I'm a little confused as to where item claiming begins and ends...

I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.

First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.

Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.

Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.

I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.

I have stated all I will on the item claim. The terms keep changing and if there was discussion before the given terms were set, I would have pointed something out: Mainly that you can possibly derive the store from which your item came from based on what you dropped. I don't want to give that information out to the scum at the current time, it is something I feel the scum could make much more use of then the town.

I'm not sure how the "dead" shops work, but it seems to me those items are not going to be lost forever. Either someone has an ability that lets them loot dead character's stores (which seems like a scummy ability to me, but it could be town), the item rolled for on the list is "dropped" from the store at the beginning of the next day, or people can just choose to steal from the store at will (the doors are open, we can see all the items), I think it is a little crazy to give out that information yet. I would hate to be night killed because some scum wants the items in my store. So I refuse to tell them where I'm from.

As I understand it the point of the item claim is to determine who is holding what. If someone doesn't claim to have picked up what I dropped, I would make a note of it and maybe say something, but I'm sure someone would notice if an item that was on the ground wasn't claimed. I will also definitely claim what item I dropped if someone decides to be a wise guy and claim to have dropped something I actually dropped.

Also, the only reason I even claimed I had nothing was because I in fact have nothing. I don't really think going through with the item claim is a good idea, solely on the principal that the scum could kill someone who has an item they need. If I was actually holding something I would have been a lot more vehement against this item claim, and its possible I might even be so tomorrow. But since people started claiming before we even knew

what

to claim, I'm really unsure on how to proceed at this point.

Some people just "assume" we'll do this everyday, while others think its a one day thing, and while others still don't actually completely agree on the terms that seem to have been pushed forward.

That being said, if everyone else claims what they dropped you can most likely guess what I dropped from what hasn't been claimed.

[Kinetic]

Right now I believe Kinetic, and Kilroy should also be PMing the mod to find out what happened with his items, but I'll hold off on that until I see his explanation.

Why would I PM the mod to find out what happened to MOS's items?

[Kinetic]

Unvote;Vote: BM

I've seen BM get mislynched before for being scummy and just making mistakes. However his mistakes always seem trivial. This is not a trivial mistake in my book...

[Kinetic]

Alright. So let me get this straight.

1) You have a "fair few items" you don't want to claim, basically for the reasons I outlined, even though you've been pushing others to claim all day.

2) You also want the Survivor DVD.

3) Even under pressure you want to try and hide and say you "might" tell us why if we don't lynch you today.

WTF BM?


Claim all your items now, or die scum hoarder.

Or maybe claim your items now and die scum hoarder anyway.

[Kinetic]

Fritz, do you think I am town? Or at least are more likely than not?

[Kinetic]

What? Who said the scum have to keep their claims? This isn't like a role claim MOS, items are going to change hands everyday. The only way to get THAT out is if we force a claim on stores and item goals. If we know what someone is trying to achieve and we know how they can achieve it, then we can fill in the dots. The whole item claiming today is just a cluster $%@#. Poorly planned, poorly executed, pushed forward without discussion, and without even goals set forward. We have no idea what we were trying to achieve and we fell all over ourselves failing to achieve it.

[Kinetic]

Wow... everyone wants the survivor dvd, lol.

[Kinetic]

Right....

well could you send me the Full Metal Jacket that ibby sent you?

[Kinetic]

KineticGut concurs.

[Kinetic]

I'm starting to really think Kilroy is being a little too suspicious right now... What is it with all the people who were pushing the item claim so vehemently are so unwilling to claim when it is their turn hmm?

[Kinetic]

Fos:Carrotcake; Unvote.Vote:Kilroy

[Kinetic]

Kilroy has 8 votes by my count.

Mod:VC at your leisure?

[Kinetic]

MOS: It isn't what Carrotcake asked for that made me FOS him/her, it is how she/he said it. It reeked of scum planning to try and tell Kilroy what to do to save himself, or what

not

to do, more specifically, to protect the scum. I completely figured that Kilroy would have spontaneously given the "information" Carrotcake asked for. If he is scum, I'm afraid he might not now.

[Kinetic]

Carrotcake, stop being dense. >> We KNOW that already... we wanted Kilroy to tell us FREELY without someone telling him WHY we wanted to know. You BLEW that before and you just BLEW it again after he might have forgotten.

MAJOR FOS: Carrotcake

[Kinetic]

If we're going to kill someone for lurking I'm more inclined to kill xyzzy. He lurked hardcore like this as mafia in Mini Countdown not 2 weeks ago.

Unvote;Vote: Xyzzy

I'll revote Kilroy if deadline approaches. I'll vote Roland if deadline approaches and he's more likely to be lynched. The last thing we need is a no lynch.

[Kinetic]

I don't know Roland, or his play. I know xyzzy lurks as scum in a game I played with him recently. I'm willing to vote Roland to avoid no lynch, but I'm more willing to vote xyzzy. If I'm right, before xyzzy is lynched he'll come back, exactly like he did in the last game I played with him.

[Kinetic]

I think this could be settled raj if you tell us if
A) They picked up their prods or not, or
B) if you're actively looking for their replacement or not.

If A is yes, and they're still not posting, well then this lynch target makes sense since, like MOS said, they are lurking as a strategy, which is anti-town play at its finest.
If A is no, and B is yes, then we'll back off until you find a replacement.

If you cannot answer either of these though, the town will have no choice but to believe you cannot tell us because as a mod you think that will give away their alignment.

I think the consensus is no one wants to lynch these people for what they've done, but for what they are not doing.

[Kinetic]

Thank you Raj.

Unvote;Vote:Kilroy

I'm satisfied by his explanation. We can discuss with their replacements when they are chosen or lynch them if they return.

[Kinetic]

Me thinks Andy is rereading and not reading the new posts. Me thinks Raj is looking fo a replacement for Xyzzy. Me thinks MOS is a giant raving lunatic distraction.

[Kinetic]

Andy, you pretty much have 48 hours to claim before the lynch mob descends upon you. We're working on a deadline and would like to get back to the game. Simpley, you and the other person replacing in are the only ones who haven't claimed.

[Kinetic]

Sorry Andy. The main point of the item claim is what items you are HOLDING. I disagreed with the whole thing, but I don't think you denying the claim at this point is going to fly.

[Kinetic]

Yeah, it's you, and I noticed Kinetic needs to claim what he dropped.

Yeah, I just noticed its incompleteness. MoS was wrong though, Kinetic also has to claim his dropped item. I would be all right if he did that last (got the impression that's what he;s waiting for anyway).

No, I don't. I'm not waiting to claim what I dropped last, I just said if everyone claimed true you could figure it out by process of elimination, but I'm not doing any of the work for you. That isn't what the item claim was when I claimed and I have already stated

multiple times

I've done everything required of me by the item claim.

[Kinetic]

FOS:BattleMage

for not understanding what inconsistency means as my actions have been consistent through the entire game, unlike his own.

[Kinetic]

Its not OMGUS BattleMage, stop using logical fallicies and lying >>.

My position has been completely consistent, I don't think this item claim is a good idea. Then the WAY we were doing the item claim kept changing.

My FOS has nothing to do with you using your HOS on me, it has everything to do with your reasonings for doing so, which were completely false.

You're inconsistent and hypocritical. How is that poor logic?

[Kinetic]

Thats 192 hours from now.

[Kinetic]

Since no one else has said it, this is the reason I voted KScope and then subsequently unvoted him.

KScope claimed two items, yet claimed he didn't pick up, give away, nor receive an item from anyone. He never claimed where that second item came from (And I personally didn't know "Bear Bear" was a type of alcohol). It wasn't until Yagami mentioned that it was wine, and I realized that KScope's winemaker character MADE the wine, that I figured out how he had the two items. Originally I thought he had received the second item from a scum buddy but didn't know if he should say who.

Now that I've explained that, KScope send me the alcohol ^^.

[Kinetic]

Alright. So let me get this straight.

1) You have a "fair few items" you don't want to claim, basically for the reasons I outlined, even though you've been pushing others to claim all day.

2) You also want the Survivor DVD.

3) Even under pressure you want to try and hide and say you "might" tell us why if we don't lynch you today.

WTF BM?


Claim all your items now, or die scum hoarder.

Or maybe claim your items now and die scum hoarder anyway.

This is the example of Kinetic inconsistency. He seems to force upon everyone a facade of not wanting a mass-claim, but in fact, he is very willing to push for other people to claim when it suits him. It seems that his motivations are truly selfish, and hence, he is probably scum.

FoS: Mariyta

for outright not paying attention, and defence of scum.

also

FoS: MoS

every time i see you lead the town, you seem to turn up scum (recently anyway). Plus its way out of character for you to defend me. :p

Amazingly funny you picked out the post where I was pressuring you BM. So this is all just one big case of OMGUS then? But sure, I'll answer this "accusation".

First: I found it ironic, inconsistent, hypocritical, and completely scummy that you and MOS both PUSHED the item claim, then when you two were asked to claim, this laundry list of excuses came out of why you two shouldn't.

The ONLY two people I pushed to claim were you and MOS because I felt that you two HAD NO CHOICE but to claim in my opinion. So yes, I pushed for the two scummiest players at that point in the game to claim, and honestly, I don't feel bad about it. Neither do I feel I was being inconsistent or hypocritical in my views.

2) You claimed to be hoarding items. That is really scummy in my opinion. Why would you want so many items that you can't lose? The fact that MOS was doing so as well piqued my interest. Scum trying to get items their friends need and then passing them later? No, you saying that and refusing to claim doesn't fly for me.

3) You then say if we don't lynch you today, you MIGHT tell us day 2. That doesn't fucking fly at ALL with me. You don't push everyone to claim, then make up so bad excuse and then back out until you can talk with your scum buddies.

So at that point, if you didn't claim, I was 100% behind lynching you. I'm still not against it, but I think Kilroy is a better play.

[Kinetic]

nice try. Unfortunately you can't disregard the facts that easily here.

Much as you deny it, it was highly hypocritical for you to fight so strongly against the mass-claim, yet when SOMEBODY ELSE showed signs of coming around to your way of thinking, your stance changed.

Ah I get it. What I'm supposed to do when the person fighting against me, pushing the mass claim then chooses not to claim, I should just forget all the people he forced to claim, including myself, and embrace him with open arms. No, you are not just anyone now opposing the mass claim, you are the person behind it, pushing it forward and attacking anyone against it.

I don't agree with Mass Claim, in any of the 20 ways that were pushed forward, but I don't buy this miraculous conversion of yours to the no item claim at such a convenient time. Because if you and MOS weren't pushing the mass claim there wouldn't have BEEN a mass claim. You're the one who can't have it both ways.

Yep, i was (and still am) hoarding items. By that i mean, getting as many items as possible. Again, this is a null tell. EVERYONE in the game should try to get as many items as possible, because scum want to get as many items as they can to prevent the town getting them, and the town should strive to get as many items as they can, to stop the scum getting them. Using that logic as reasoning behind a vote is unbelievably stupid. Razz

I am not a fan of the personally forced WIFOM thinking. You see, you can't think of your own actions as WIFOM as a defense of them. When you decide on doing something, you have a reason. The whole purpose of WIFOM is that there could be multiple thought processes when that process is UNKNOWN.

That being said: Scum have a very good reason to want to horde items. Better than any townie. Therefore, it isn't a null tell.

2) You claimed to be hoarding items. That is really scummy in my opinion. Why would you want so many items that you can't lose? The fact that MOS was doing so as well piqued my interest. Scum trying to get items their friends need and then passing them later? No, you saying that and refusing to claim doesn't fly for me.

Why wouldn't I hoard items? I'm rather suspicious of the people who thought it was in the town's benefit to drop their items where scum can pick them up. I tried to pick up several items

so that scum couldn't get them

. I fail to see how this is scummy. In addition, if I had a hidden agenda behind picking up multiple items, why would I tell you I tried, since I only actually picked up one item. You can argue that I really did forget what items I had, but that debunks the argument that I was stalling my claim on purpose. Can't have it both ways.

While this wasn't directed at you, I'm half-glad you decided to chyme in. You see, I was using you as an example. Now, what I think was happening was that you were attempting to Horde items, but that you didn't intend to claim them all. When people started claiming items you thought you had, you wanted to find out th truth from raj. You then decided to stall, and because you knew we wouldn't believe you unless you told the truth there, you decided it didn't matter since you weren't holding the items. So yes, I can be suspicious of you for

attempting

to horde items, and then not being prepared for your own item claim.

I must ask you honestly-have you been reading the game? because your comments dont seem to tie in with someone who has been following and wants to genuinely portray the facts as they are.

Yet you are completely consistent with someone who is posting with a limited mental capacity.

I think i'd rather be killed myself than kill Kilroy, simply because, once i am dead, hopefully those of you who are protown, will get your arses in gear and start thinking for yourselves. It is often the case that alive, i am a distraction, so please feel free to kill me, IF you are willing to take action against Kinetic when i come up town.

I call this the CKD defense. Read this game to view my thoughts on such a gambit. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5902

CKD basically said the same thing. If you are town, your ACTIONS will speak for you, but you can't act scummy, and then try and get the people who think that you are acting scummy to lynch the person targeting you because they think you are scummy. You might have a case if I was acting scummy, you were acting town and I was attacking you with no logical arguments. But that is not the case.

I still think its funny that you want the town to "think for themselves" and then immediately after you say so you basically want them to listen to you and do exactly what you say. Because we all know "Battle Mage knows best!"

[Kinetic]

Does anyone else think BM has simply snapped at this point? He used to think somewhat logically, but right now, he just seems out of it.

Appeal to Emotion.

@Kinetic-at least i'm not pushing a mislynch. :p

You know Kilroy is a townie, eh scum? But you are trying to push a mislynch of me, but I don't think you meant that.

Unless you mean yourself, but I'm not voting you.

[Kinetic]

Are you mental or something? I would think pushing a bandwagon on someone requires that person to... vote them...

What others see from your actions may be the same things I see, and it may be why they are voting you, but I haven't told anyone to vote you or pushed for your bandwagon (you have like 2 votes, woooo what a bandwagon).

Right now I'm fine with my vote on Kilroy.

[Kinetic]

Raj, I'm afraid there might not be enough of the town around to notice the deadline change. Maybe move it to mid-week would be fine if its an issue though.

[Kinetic]

NEVER!

[Kinetic]

CAREFUL TSS, HE MIGHT ADD YOU TO HIS SCUM LIST AND WE ALL KNOW THAT IS THE THE MOST ACCURATE THING IN THE WORLDS!

[Kinetic]

erm how do you suppose it is 'entirely OMGUS' when 2 of the 3 people havent voted for me, and 1 of them hasnt even given the slightest indication of suspecting me?

So I need to vote for you in order for your actions to be considered OMGUS, but I don't have to vote you in order to "lead a bandwagon against you". Your words, not mine.

[Kinetic]

First:

Poorly planned, poorly executed, pushed forward without discussion, and without even goals set forward. We have no idea what we were trying to achieve and we fell all over ourselves failing to achieve it.

Wow, I love myself for making this quote. People should praise me for the god that I am.

Second:

the way Kinetic has been coming out to defend several people has also been suspicious.

Wha-wha-wha-what!?

No really, WHAT? Tautscum, you just offhandedly accused me of being scum in a very specific way with no fucking proof. This is the most blatent misdirection and I hesitate to say outright lie, but that is what this is.

I WANT TO SEE SOMETHING right this damn second to validate this claim of me "defending several people". Hell I'd like to see if you can show me defending ONE person in this game.

I have been accused of defending people before in games without realizing it, heck it is honestly something I'm working on. When I see people attacking other players in unfair or illogical ways, I feel it is my duty to kick that person back into their chair. That being said, I have been making quite the effort NOT to do that in this game. I'm still calling people out on their bullshit, but I am no actively defending anyone.

Me thinks that Taut has been in a game with me before or read up on me and thoughts he could throw this out there willy nilly and it would be true without checking his facts.

And if you think that I am "overdefending" over this, well you are being too off-handed and just plain WRONG. Prove this right now or I might be very tempted to unvote and vote you even with the deadline looming.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, even though you didn't vote me that's still pretty OMGUS. Tautscum, really? That's a new one. You've overreacted from a vote a couple times this game often enough that it seems like a pattern.

Way to completely strawman my attack, refuse to address my points, and then call me scum again in an offhanded manner with no proof.

I'm giving you one more chance to address my allegations before I throw in my support for this bandwagon.

Major FOS: Taut

[Kinetic]

About the Kinetic thing: Upon a reread it wasn't as bad as I thought. Most of it was the way he was dismissive about Ibby giving her item away. After discussion it turned out to not be a big deal, but "that's the way she is" isn't an adequate justification for behavior which would benefit scum more than town.

I'm still getting a manipulative vibe from Kinetic though, like he's trying to stay in the good favor of enough players to avoid scrutiny. I don't really like the way he's making personal attacks on BM either, but maybe that's just a stylistic issue.

I know Ibby. I can see her doing what she did as town. Thus it is a null tell and I dismissed it as such. There is no need to be caught up on something like that. If she had sent it to someone besides Fritz I would have been monstrously suspicious. But what did happen makes enough sense. Its perfectly adequate justification in my book.

As for this "manipulative vibe", I find that completely hilarious. Go back and read. I was called scum so many times for not supporting the mass claim with all my heart and mind. I was honestly afraid if I didn't support mass claim I might be lynched, but I had to state what I felt was hurting the town.

I have NO CLUE how it happened that all of these people all of a sudden thinks I'm town. I'm not complaining, but you can't honestly think I came into this game and "manipulated" myself into this position. I'm just as surprised as anyone.

As for the "personal attacks" on BM, if you mean my logical arguments breaking down his illogical and hypocritical attitude, then I think you need to look again. True, I could have been nicer, but this isn't a game of hopscotch. This is an adversarial situation where people are trying to lie, cheat, and trick others into killing their friends. Sometimes nice takes a back seat.

At this point I'm a little more unsure of Taut than I was earlier. I'd like to see a

Mod:VC

before I make any decision. I think Kilroy might be the play, but Taut might also be the play of the day. I'd like to do a little more re-reading and see where a few other people stand before I make my own decision.

[Kinetic]

That is the scummiest thing I've heard you say this game MOS. Isn't it also possible that Kilroy is the scum and Taut is the mislynch?

[Kinetic]

Honestly MOS, I could see MOSscum making this play against Taut for two reasons. One, you could be trying to distance yourself from a townie lynch and start setting up a Day 2 lynch or Two) Kilroy could be your scum partner and you're trying to avert his lynch.

That being said, I can't see MOStown being

this

certain that Kilroy is not scum. Unless there is something you're not telling the rest of us.

If Kilroy was not a viable lynch target, I think I would vote Taut, but I'm feeling sure enough in my analysis at this point to think that Kilroy has a better chance of being scum than Taut. It is also certainly possible they're scum together, but there is something intangible that is telling me that Taut isn't the right play today.

[Kinetic]

[quote]KaleiÐoscøpe, Fritzler, YagamiLight, MissMoo, Kinetic, Mariyta, soupfly, theopor_COD, Aimee, ibaesha, Andycyca[/quote]

Well I think the only way for me to justify switching to Taut would be to analyze the Kilroy wagon and try and figure out who are the scummiest players on board. As such, let's start elimination people here.

Fritz: Although I haven't heard from him much since, I can pretty much sum up the two main reasons that he is on the wagon. Ibby and Survivor.

KD: I really don't like his play, and if I wasn't relatively sure he was town I'd have scum alarms going off in my head.

YL: Just active enough to justify his votes.

Mariyata: I'm still unsure what I think of her. Another that seems just active enough to justify her vote.

Ibby: I feel that her reasons are the truest toward the Kilroy lynch.

Andy: A relative newcomer to the wagon and also seems to have strong enough motives.

So eliminating these 6 from the wagon, and myself, we're left with:

[quote] MissMoo, soupfly, theopor_COD, Aimee[/quote]

After a re-read of LLee and COD I'm feeling fairly good about his reasons.

Aimee I'm a little more concerned about. Doing a little active lurking, her vote seems to be rather flimsy early in the day. After doing a little reading up on her, I think this might be at best a null tell, but I still would like for her to come forward and be a little more active before the day ends.

I am VERY concerned with Soupfly's behavior. Having been in a game where Soup was town and I was scum, I would expect him to act a lot more active and be much more aggressive. He is supporting theories that I am pretty sure he wouldn't support as town. His vote is very flimsy throughout the day, and he prefers to latch onto other people's theories instead of searching for his own.

Fos:Soupfly

MissMoo I feel similar to how I feel about Aimee. I'd like to see a little more participation but I also don't have a strong feeling of scum from her yet.

-----

So the last thing I've decided to do is relook at Kilroy's behavior. Honestly I was shocked by what I found.

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]I'm all right with an item claim.[/quote]

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]It's funny, you made such a big deal about not claiming your items that, now that you have... I don't feel like unvoting you.

Pick another person.[/quote]

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]Claiming the item gives away my shop, and I'd rather not do that at this point in time.[/quote]

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]I... never pushed for an item claim. Thanks for trying, though. I just went along with it.[/quote]

...

Confirm Vote:Kilroy

I thought I might find something that would sway me to vote Taut... but honestly I'm much more sure of Kilroy being scum.

[Kinetic]

I'd also say this post took me about 55 minutes to write. In general,

I'm just very careful about the way I word things

.

So are scum, just saying

So are town. Is there any reason you would point out such an obvious null tell and choose the scummy side of the argument?

[Kinetic]

And what lesson did we learn today children?

If we pitch a fit and act like a complete ass, people will give in and do what we want!! Yay!!

Some would say that MoS's brief spell of out of order behaviour is preferable to constant out of order behaviour throughout the entire game.

And some say you make logical arguments. Obviously this "some" is often wrong.

[Kinetic]

And what lesson did we learn today children?

If we pitch a fit and act like a complete ass, people will give in and do what we want!! Yay!!

Some would say that MoS's brief spell of out of order behaviour is preferable to constant out of order behaviour throughout the entire game.

And some say you make logical arguments. Obviously this "some" is often wrong.

why do you insist on breadcrumbing an 'idiocy' PR?

That's right BM. When you can't attack the argument you attack the person. Bravo!

[Kinetic]

And what lesson did we learn today children?

If we pitch a fit and act like a complete ass, people will give in and do what we want!! Yay!!

Some would say that MoS's brief spell of out of order behaviour is preferable to constant out of order behaviour throughout the entire game.

And some say you make logical arguments. Obviously this "some" is often wrong.

why do you insist on breadcrumbing an 'idiocy' PR?

That's right BM. When you can't attack the argument you attack the person. Bravo!

My motto is "when you can't beat em, join em". So for the rest of the game, i'm going to play down at your level.

/ignore

[Kinetic]

Interesting...

Hmmm...

Verrrrry Interesting...

[Kinetic]

Ibby? Any thoughts?

[Kinetic]

May I ask if anyone picked up the Age of Empires CD and doesn't need it?

[Kinetic]

It appears we have a delayed announcement of who is town or scum, and won't know until the next morning.

[Kinetic]

Ummm... Scotmany and Kilroy were town. Pay attention YL.

[Kinetic]

I don't know BM, they have valid points. It is true that not everyone is paying as much attention to this game as they should, but then again your own actions are glaring in hypocracy. It wouldn't take a large amount of attention to notice them.

About the newspaper articles: As far as I'm concerned I cannot imagine this game to NOT have a way to figure out if our lynch targets are town or scum. I can understand where we might not know the alignment of the night kill, but it would be literally impossible for the town to win if we don't know if we ever hit scum or not. As such, I'm going to take the alignment reveals at face value until proven otherwise. A delayed reveal is much more likely than absolutely no reveal, and is also completely in line with how this game has so far progressed.

[Kinetic]

I think it would be easier to list what you didn't do scummy yesterday.

[Kinetic]

I think it would be easier to list what you didn't do scummy yesterday.

did i ask you to try to be clever and make a funny?
Please just answer the question.

BM

That's being unfair BM. She would have to quote all of your posts from day one. And you tend to ramble.

[Kinetic]

Unfortunately, I'm not confident enough in my read of BM to vote for him. I think he's scummy as hell, and I really think he should improve how he plays the game. He is completely illogical, and downright useless. But I'm not sure if he's scum or not yet. So I'm going to abstain from joining his wagon for right now.

That being said, Vanilla Townie is such and interesting claim in this game. Just saying.

[Kinetic]

Vote:Taut

[Kinetic]

BM is still illogically mad at me for calling him out on his hypocrisies day one. His vote of me is not a surprise since I'm part of his "Axis of Evil" from day one, but his unreasonable arguments are just as ludicrous today as it was yesterday.

Although it is true that his inevitability of being a possible lynch did factor into my not voting him, I figure that Taut has a slightly higher likelihood of being scum, assuming MOS and Kilroy are town. Also, since my vote places Taut at 4 votes, to BM's 8, it makes him the only other possible lynch target besides BM before deadline.

I don't understand how BM could say that makes me look scummy, but it sounds like he is saying I'm fixing toward the

too townie

fallacy. But this assumes that he

will

be lynched, will be proven town, and that makes me scummy for trying to push a lynched against his only competitor to be lynched. Sounds like a leap to me, but, this is BM logic we're talking about.

I really don't know if BM is town or scum, but I'm leaning toward him being more likely irrational town then idiotic scum. Although I could be wrong.

[Kinetic]

BM, the logical fallacy you are using now is "Poisoning the Well". You see me as scummy, thus no matter what I say, you will find it scummy.

[Kinetic]

nope, in case you hadnt realised, im probs gonna die today. As such, id like to at least be able to have the moral highground at endgame by saying, i had scum pegged. And yeh, ur last paragraph was totally scummy. You cant use the old 'Oh my God BM Sucks' argument to ignore the points against you.

BM

Right. Moral high ground. You don't even know what that means.

[Kinetic]

This is you taking the moral high ground.

-.-

[Kinetic]

I doubt that the mod will give us more time. Although I think we should help him out a bit by lynchings some MIAs...

[Kinetic]

He's been replacing a lot of these people four or five times now. I think there are some scummy people who also are inactive that we can give the boot instead of active (if completely illogical) players.

[Kinetic]

I'm here.

[Kinetic]

<- Not rereading.

[Kinetic]

Are we finally lynching Taut. Thank god.

Vote:Taut

[Kinetic]

Alright, I'm very surprised I haven't been NKed yet. I believe I've made a favorable impression on most of the players, and if I'm not mistaken, most of you believe I have pro-town intentions.

I'd like to see if I can use some of collateral that I've built up to make a couple of requests.

I'm looking for a couple of items, and I have a couple of items that I'd be willing to trade either for those items, or to players I believe are pro-town.

If you have an item I want, and I think you are not pro-town and want an item in return, I will no give you the item you want. I would encourage you to send me the item you have that I want, but I will not put the town at risk if I think you are scum.

Anyway, these are the items I'm looking for right now:

Risk
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Taurus
Age of Empires

I have
James Bond
How I Met Your Mother DVD
Fish
Geo

Tell me if you have what I want.

[Kinetic]

Anyone else?

[Kinetic]

O, BTW,

I've activated one of my abilities.

I'm currently immune to NKs.

Suck it Mafia.

[Kinetic]

Maybe I'm not really NK immune and I just want the mafia to think I am.

[Kinetic]

Anyway Soup, you'll understand why I had to say that later.

[Kinetic]

Hey, you guys convince the mafia to NK me, that was there is a no kill tonight, ok.

[Kinetic]

Here, I will say this much. At this point I can tell you about 80% of what me and my ghost can do. This is because I am no longer afraid of retribution from the scum. I can't be NKed.

If I am able to get all of the items I need (listed them above), you will learn the other 20% of my character automatically.

I BELIEVE that someone here has an ability that once activated will allow us to see scum/town immediately. It would make sense in this game in my opinion.

[Kinetic]

I am of the opinion that a store claim is not a bad idea, however we currently have a hard deadline. Thus: If you can convince Raj to delay the deadline until we hear all store claims, I'll go with it. If you cannot, I can only vote against Store Claim on the principal that we will not be able to get everyone to claim in time.

[Kinetic]

Dear Poro,

I will not provide you with a reason to vote someone or not so that you can push off any lingering guilt on me. I am voting them for my own reason. If you would like to vote them, please have your own reasons as well.

If you have someone you would prefer to vote, please vote them. If you intend to give someone else your vote, please either just claim scum or be replaced.

With Love,
Kinetic

[Kinetic]

Dear Porochaz,

I really cannot, as you so eloquently put it, "shut the fuck up" at your request. You see, I have tried to be active in this game or at least not taking up space. When I see someone doing either one or the other (or both, in your case), I find little reason to cut them any slack.

If, by rectifying your own self-proclaimed errors, you can find a reason to vote for Taut, then vote for him. You also can vote for anyone else in the game, and I encourage you to vote someone. You are correct, people do not have to have different reasons for voting, but they should arrive at those reasons independently. If they do not, then it gives them the (wrong) excuse to blame someone else for their own actions.

My intentions are not to help you, but to help the town. The best way to help the town is to force you to be more active. If you ARE a part of the town, I will thus be helping you. If you do not find me helpful, maybe it is because you are scum.

Your loving companion (or enemy, but still very loving),
Kinetic

[Kinetic]

Holy:

Haven't read you're whole thing, but did notice you say you believe that this is Mafia vs. Townies. However, we have heard some lingerings about a cult. I think its fair to say that there is a cult around as well.

[Kinetic]

Apples to Apples is more of a Board game then a card game. I worked at a game shop in Orlando and it was shelved with the Board Games, and not with the card games. I've never played it, but it is prob a card game in the same sense that Monopoly is a card game.

Risk, Settlers, Blockus, and Buzz are also all Board Games. I've played Blockus, Settlers and Risk. Blockus is like Tetris.

Ibby and Fritz already said they were trading items. Not a huge surprise really.

I really hope Risk is not int he dead items box . If someone can pick that up and send it to me, I would be appreciative.

Raj, can anyone maybe use a Night action to go into a store and pick something up from there. Maybe instead of getting a random item from their own shop?

If someone has that ability (and the more I think about it, the more logical it might be that something might have it, go get me Risk please . I promise you won't regret it When I use my other ability on you.

I'll give everyone a hint. All my abilities can be used to Protect the town in one way or another. I will not explain them all until I can actually use them.

Also, one more thing before I forget: I do not think Ibby was scum. I'm almost positive she wasn't.

You see: I sent her the Seinfeld DVD. However, the very night I sent it to her, it wound up in MOS's hands when he died. So I suspected her as either Cult or Mafia, leaning toward Cult because sending the item to MOS and then killing him would be a foolish play as mafia, in my opinion, since it linked her with him. When MOS came up as town: that means one of four possibilities-

Ibby is cult, the cult is pro-town or neutral, sent the item to MOS-town to help the town.

Ibby is scum, sent the item to MOS to help me think she was town when MOS came up town. She did send the kill in, after all, and would know MOS would die that night.

Ibby and MOS are both cult, cult status does not turn up when someone dies.

Ibby is town, sent the item to MOS because she thought he was town as well.

Cheerio.

[Kinetic]

In the one other game I played with Soup, he was this stubborn as well. I was scum, he was town, but from what I can understand about Soup's play, it goes like this:

When he thinks he's right, no matter what reasonable argument you throw at him, he will dig his heels and refuse to budge. If you think he's wrong, he will get annoyed/angry/borderline belligerent, that you would

dare

question him. He will then list a whole slew of things that he's accomplished in his "real" life, to prove his point. Rarely this does nothing but make people ignore his arguments, which then causes him to become angrier, and the vicious circle ends with Soup being lynched because no one wants to listen to him anymore.

That being said, Soup may be very gruff and hard to like, but I think he's a townie right now.

Soup:

I also think that you need to slow the hell down and allow your reasoned arguments to do the talking, instead of your impulsive actions. You will make more friends with honey than vinegar.

I agree that he should explain himself, mainly because I've learned that trapping rarely works on scum. Especially when you TELL THEM THE TRAP is there. It usually only pings inattentive townies, and we need more mis lynches like we need holes in the head.

That being said, Tar, I am greatly disappointed in you. Holy so far has been actively participating, and at least

trying

to spread knowledge around. What you just did was call her scummy because of it.

SHAME.

Information helps town, disinformation and convincing them that secrets are needed to win only helps the scum.

Second, whenever you make a request of someone, I find it to be good manners to at the very least follow your own request. If you want HER to list HER top suspects because all of a sudden YOU think she could be scum, you should pony up and do the same.

Finally, giving such narrow ultimatums just makes people angry and causes gut reactions. All I saw in your post Tar was blatant attempts to prod and poke at both Soup and Holy. Both of whom have shown off a lot more townie qualities than yourself so far.

So now, I'm going to do the same thing to you Tar.

Why do YOU think there are "power shops". This is the first I've heard of this concept (although it may have been mentioned before in passing, I don't believe there has been an active discussion about the topic). Please elaborate on what you think a "power shop" is, what its use will be, and how you have "stumbled" upon this information.

You have asked Holy to list her suspects. Now I want you to list YOURS. I believe you should do it before Holy, but if Holy does list hers, I damn well better see you reciprocating. There is nothing a despise more than someone forcing someone else to jump through hoops that they are clearly not willing to jump through themselves.

And finally, why did you feel the way you addressed these issues was the best way. Do you really think that accusing everyone you want answers from of being scum and that refusing to answer you is even more scummy will get you the answers you want? Or are you just loading the questions so that no matter what they answer you can twist it into something you find scummy.

I do not like YOUR behavior one bit, and you have jumped up my own personal list.

[Kinetic]

Steal items...

Like from other players, other stores?

Do you need to know what items they have to steal them...

Wow, that would have been very important information... lol

[Kinetic]

And of course, its right out in the open too... oh my, lol.

[Kinetic]

HALT STORE CLAIM IMMEDIATELY:

Soup, if what I think Raj is telling me is correct, and you can STEAL items only from stores, which it certainly seems like he is saying (won't know until he confirms), then anyone knowing your store is a BAD thing for town, since we already know the scum and/or the cult have an advantage with being able to coordinate their actions.

I believe even you can see that the store claim is now a VERY VERY VERY bad idea if this is true.

[Kinetic]

OK, Store claim doesn't need to immediately end, but I still am not feeling right about it. I feel like there is something I'm missing and I need to think about it more.

Does stealing items require you to know which item you want to steal? If not, do you pick a person and just steal a random item? Can you be targeted with multiple steals? Is there any situation in which a steal can fail normally, without the intervention of an ability?

[Kinetic]

Be sure to include which paper those headlines come from. It greatly effects their credibility.

Store claim without claiming items is a good compromise, and I think that would alleviate a lot of my concerns. I'm going to think it over one more time when I'm a little more clear and give my final opinion on the subject before the end of this day.

I would also like anyone else who has any

specific

opinions or concerns, I would like to hear them now. We do not have time to wait for everyone to mull over this decision. If by the end of the day tomorrow, you have not raised a

specific

concern or opinion, I'm going to assume that you are impartial to this store claim as it stands now. I refuse to allow lurking to protect you from claiming if we decide to go through with this.

With that being said, be prepared to check this forum at the LEAST once every 12-24 hours. If we go ahead with this claim and you find you will NOT be able to do so, say so immediately so we can get your claim done and processed and you do not conveniently "forget".

[Kinetic]

Reason #2: Kinetic, who just jumped up my scumdar considerably. Seriously, jumping out to defend a newer player by attacking the person who questioned her? That's one of the biggest tells in my book - when I've seen players act like you just did, they have usually been scum (either defending a buddy or trying to pick up a pet townie).

Look at any of my previous games as town. I defend players when I see other players being unfair in their attacks or questions, like you were. The fact that you "all of a sudden" find me scummy just validates my points, not removes them. You have a real issue with painting something as scummy and then refusing to look past your own paint.

Finally, don't try to claim "hey look, I'm UNK, I must be town!". I've seen a few too many UNK scum for me to trust that claim without reservations (and I won't discount the possibility that you're scum trying to avoid being vigged tonight).

First off, I have not and never had said anything like "trust me, I'm unNKable". I have always stated that my actions will prove I'm town, not what I say.

Second, what makes you think there is even a Vig in this game? From what I've gathered (you know, the one NK a night thing) there isn't one. So I'm not scared about that either.

I announced my immunity to NKs now for a very important reason that I'm not going to reveal at this point. However, I can state that the power does not work quite the same if I do not reveal it... It's rather interesting. There are other, more important reasons, why I chose to reveal it now, but those are going to stay secret for a bit.

Even with those problems, however, there is someone even more likely to be scum in the game...

Reason #1: Soupfly, who has just proven that I had very good cause to ask him for his reasoning. I asked him to elaborate on why he thought certain stores were scum because

the only references to scum stores among living players that I could find came from the Mafia Courier-Journal, aka the completely unreliable scum-written newspaper

, and Soupfly just confirmed that the Courier-Journal was, in fact, the source for all but one of his claimed scum stores. You then claim that it is a known fact that these stores belong to scum. Considering the source, I call bullshit.

Now if that is true, I'm going to have to look into that. I was afraid that might be the case too, so that is why I agreed Soup should reveal his points. Interesting indeed.

[Kinetic]

The Mafia Courier-Journal (Created by Mafia spin doctors to encourage the dark side with cryptic messages to confuse everyone).

I was willing to wait until you responded soup, mainly to guage your reaction and see if you had a response to Tar. Not only did you not have a response, you also encouraged the town to just act reckless, despite some VERY valid points that Tar brought up.

I'm sorry, at this time, I'm with Tar, which bothers me a little bit because I'm not so sure about his alignment either.

However, I'm less sure of yours at this point.

Unvote; Vote Soupfly

[Kinetic]

I heard you Andy, but you jumped the gun. There was still meaningful discussion going on and I was also one of the people involved.

Soup: As it stands now, there is certainly nothing for you to lose or gain since you already prematurely claimed.

However, your main argument, that the benefits outweigh the risks because of your "scum stores" theory has been proven false. As such, the fact that these scum stores were obviously created

by the mafia

in one way or another, it is not unheard of for the scum to have created this with the sole purpose of then having this claim and

lynching the townies

that control those stores.

At this point, I do not know all of the negatives, however, from my point of view the risks are greater now than any negligible benefits that may exist.

My vote stands, even after thinking about it. If you are indeed town Soup, then you fell into a very well orchestrated scum trap. However I think the evidence points to the more likely scenario that you are actually scum and that you are trying push forward a scum plan that seems to have been set up from day one.

[Kinetic]

I support Gender claim.

[Kinetic]

Soup, refer back to my first post on this.

Don't get this way. If you are town, be reasonable. You are falling into the same temper tantrum you did in the last game and it doesn't make anyone feel bad for you.

[Kinetic]

You mean how it all of a sudden accused me of being a killer with a knife?

[Kinetic]

Who knows. We figured out there have to be at least two scum groups (Cult/Mafia), but with all the night kills, it seems like some people have activated some of their powers.

I'm thinking I might like any Pro-Town players with a NK ability to come forward and claim their kills. Don't do it yet, I'm still mulling it over in my head if I like that idea or not, but I figured we as a town need to discuss it a little. 3 Kills in the night phase would make this game get VERY swingy VERY fast, and I don't know if I'm all that happy with people not being responsible with such abilities.

[Kinetic]

I don't like this...

There is too little information to go on and there is WAY too much going on... The delayed reveal is kicking the towns ass because we have no idea if we're even lynching right...

Add to that we now have at least three active kills, and I'm really not liking what is going on...

The only people who know what is going on, and have a true objective is the mafia, and there is way too much damn confusion for the town to be able to do anything.

I'm refusing to vote until I start to see some information, some RELIABLE information, that can point us to some scum or confirm us some townies. I feel like I'm playing right into the mafia's hands by voting randomly, without any reveals.

[Kinetic]

I'm still night kill immune, it isn't a bluff, but I don't have all of the items I need. Indeed, the Taurus has now been destroyed as well, leaving me with 2 items in the gone bin (Taurus, Risk). However, there is a CD out there that I would love to have that is still floating.

[Kinetic]

I'm making PERFECT Sense....

Now I just need to figure something out....

I think Raj just tried to tell me something through Mari...

...

...

...

The cult is all dead... I think...


That is all...

[Kinetic]

Yea....

I think Alex's Ladies Mafia = The cult in this game.

[Kinetic]

I've been debating revealing this since I saw the other announcement, if only to protect myself because I didn't want any misunderstandings... But then I started thinking about it and now I'm almost positive that the cult was "Alex's Ladies Mafia".

The reasons for this are because of my role. I am Alex. Or the ghost of Alex infests me. Whatever.

Anyway, my entire role and abilities all revolve around a cult in the town (and subsequently absolutely confirm there is a cult). In fact, my most powerful ability (which I cannot even use now since two of the items are destroyed) would have disbanded the cult outright and made all culties into townies or allowed the cult to forcibly recruit up to three players per night, depending if I was in the cult or not.

All of my abilities have dual purpose. If I'm in the cult they help the cult, if I'm not in it, they hurt the cult. Even my ability that allows me to save myself from NKs has a different purpose if I'm in the cult.

Anyway, the reason I think that "Alex's Ladies Mafia" is the cult is because it directly mentions my character and since my character is pretty much exclusively effects the cult, it made sense to me. I bet the cult even had a specific clue to try and find me, so I've been trying to hide myself as much as possible.

Also, who has the distillery? I have something I need you to use and send back to me .

[Kinetic]

YagamiLight I'm almost positive is town.

As for the dice thing, I think he's referring to the fact that the dice rolled the same number again and he couldn't get anything from his store.

Despite taut being scummy, I'd like everyone to reread Tar's vote for Taut. I find his reasoning, especially since we HAVE so little information about lynching to be very suspect. I still feel that even our "informed" lynches are useless, but random lynching is even more useless and I can only see it helping scum at this point. Granted, we need to lynch to hit scum, but with no ability to find out if we HAVE hit scum or not, I can't help but feel powerless.

If someone could dig up Risk and Taurus though, I'd be happy to take them.

[Kinetic]

Wow, I'm directly implicated by the unknown paper. I'd bet my dollars to your pennies that's the mafia paper. It also cements my suspicions that the cult was "Alex's Ladies Mafia" and that we have the real mafia still lurking.

So over night I thought I felt real good because I thought I added Mariyata to my confirmed innocents, as I confirmed she had the distillery. But that's up in smoke now too >>.

Looks like Yagami also was killed, which sucks because I was pretty sure he was town as well, mainly because after the first day he sent me some unfermented alcohol. Completely useless without the destiller I just found, but *shrug*. I can only guess he was spreading it around trying to find the destiller but found the mafia instead...

At least one of those headlines is correct, and if it is the 4 mafia one, that puts us at lynch-or-lose. Although the others don't help, and I would like to advise anyone who puts any credance to the last one to just look at the headline above it. The if the bottom one is not true and the one above it is, only one miskill will win the mafia the game (maybe). I'm not sure who controls the other kills but the fact that it looks like no cross kills occurred, esp since the vig came out yesterday (and why he's not dead makes me VERY suspicious), doesn't put me at ease.

This headline may lose some of the integrity I feel I've gathered in this game, but if it leads to my lynch I can only laugh as the town give this game to the mafia.

[Kinetic]

Tar: Which kill is yours.

It looks to me like Holy knew Mari was the distiller, which makes her post speculating about it yesterday look like a bluff to help Mari hide.

[Kinetic]

I figured it was Holy, but I wanted to know if you were dumb enough to attack Mari or Yagami, who both were very town in my opinion. I didn't have too much of an opinion on Holy :/.

About Mass claim, I'm not sure I oppose it at this point. The Distillery is gone, as is most important roles are out in the open... The problem is getting it done quickly. We need information with the deadlines and people stonewalling at this point couldg et problematic.

Tar, you're able to steal items from the destroyed pile, right? If you can "steal" Taurus or Risk and send them to me, I might be able to upset some of the night abilities of the scum. And if anyone who is town and the Red Hot Chili Peppers CD drops from your store (looks like its still locked :/) or you have it, send it to me... Now that I'm virtually sure the cult is gone, I don't have to worry about any of my powers leaking into their hands. With that being the case, I might actually be able to slow down the night phase a bit.

1. Andycyca (replacing rolandofthewhite)
2. elvis_knits (replacing Dark Ermac (replacing Faeren Lord of Carlisle (replacing SuperMarioSunshine)))
3. farside22 (replacing TheStranger (replacing xyzzy))
4. Flameaxe
5. grintwig (replacing KaleiÐoscøpe)
6. Kinetic
7. noah hanson(replacing MissMoo)
8. Tarhalindur (replacing mole)
9. tautology

I need to read more about these people, but my suspicions right now are aiming toward Noah (Miss Moo), farside, grint, and flameaxe. I need to read over Taut and Andy and get a better feel for them, and I need a better overview of the final players. If we are indeed in LyLo like situation, the more information the better...

[Kinetic]

Alright, its time for some FULL claims now. There are three people who I'm positive are mafia, then there are others who I am not sure of. I control this game now, and we're playing by my rules.

Now you've entered MY Time.

I activate my fourth and most powerful ability, Emperor Time at this moment.

The town has proven itself unable to judge evil for itself, thus I will be the only judge.

Andy, Farside, Tar you will all fully claim now. Hold nothing back. I will be killing one of you three today. I'm almost positive you are all mafia, however if you want to protect yourselves maybe another night you'll tell me everything I want to know.

Elvis you are also under suspicion, however at this time I'm willing to think you may have nothing to do with it. You both will full claim if I feel like it later, but at this time, do not do so.

Who is the parents of the babies. Please come out unless I've talked to you already with me third ability.

This game is far from over scum.

[Kinetic]

Also, it seems there was a kill attempt on me.

You can see now, I'm not bluffing, I am un NKable, and I'm also unlynchable at this point because the town can no longer vote.

If I was scum, the game would be over, so this is absolute proof I'm town.

[Kinetic]

Interesting... Tar, are you male or female?

And since you're so forthcoming with me, I know who runs Best Buy and I'll tell you if you tell me why you want to know.

[Kinetic]

Also, Andy, Farside, Armex, and Elvis, what are your sexes?

[Kinetic]

Quite the interesting little amount you've put up Tar.

A couple more questions. Why did you choose Elvis to Sexy Time with? You go out of your way to claim that Elvis is not one of your three mafia surviving, yet if you had a baby with a mafia that baby would be 100% mafia. So why would you take the chance of the baby being a townie, since if Elvis is not mafia there is a 50% chance the baby is Elvis's faction.

Who are the other two mafia if Elvis isn't. I can assume its not noah since you're attacking him so. And who is your baby, Mos or Arlex?

[Kinetic]

Hmmm I wonder...

Alright. I've gathered enough information. This will be an interesting Night phase indeed. Townies, do not do anything until I contact you. We must do this PERFECTLY or we won't win.

That being said, the possibility of victory is 100% if you do what I say.

You will receive a message from me or someone else. That someone else will not be Andy or Farside.

I will not enter night yet though because there is one more thing I need EVERY townie to do.

Pick up items. Anything, but make sure you have the max of six items in your inventory. The reason is my last ability. And this ability is why the game has not ended either.

I cannot explain why, it is too dangerous, but please do this. I will be killing Tar in 48 hours. So this is your time limit.

So, everyone pick up items that you do not need and send them all to me with your first action.

Elvis: If you are TOWN, send the alcohol to MoS that you used to seduce Tar.

This will be tough town, I know that, but I know we can win. God Speed.

[Kinetic]

Only send me items you cannot actually use. If you can use an ability and need certain items to do it, use them.

[Kinetic]

I endorse MoS's questions scum... I mean, Andy. Please answer them.

[Kinetic]

Dear Farside,

Why did you hammer Taut after Tar basically said he was scum if you are not scum?

Love your benevolent ruler,

Kinetic

[Kinetic]

Wow, claiming vanilla in a game where EVERYONE IS A POWER ROLE of some sort.

Scum.

[Kinetic]

Apparently farside didn't do his research when he decided to make his false claim. Freaktown, all of them, have always had it so that every character, even the scum, have a special ability of some kind. Even if that ability is ultimately useless. The item pick up in this version is a way of controlling who can activate their abilities and when they can do it, but so far, all evidence points that everyone has some sort of ability that makes them unique.

The fact that you do not have any worth mentioning farside, means that you are scum.

[Kinetic]

It's over. Stand down, humans.

Just wondering wtf Tar meant by this...

It was a big fat clue that I am, in fact, a member of a Mafia.

No, Tar claimed scum yesterday, as he admitted with this post. He subsequently decided his error was so great

yesterday

that he felt there was no reason to chance his not so smart partners trying to defend him when he knew, point blank, that everyone who looked at that post from

yesterday

figured out he was scum.

No doubt he did this so that there would be a chance his other scum buddies could hide if he claimed scum.

As for why I'm focusing on farside over Tar. That is really simple. Tar is already dead. Maybe I haven't given the order yet, but Tar knows it, I know it, everyone does. He also pretty much claimed everything he was going to. I'm not saying he didn't lie, somewhere, or is still trying to throw up some smoke, but I doubt we'll get much more out of him.

However, Andy and farside, who are my suspects for being Tar's accomplices, have barely talked. Indeed, farside has acted the worst of the two by voting yesterday after Tar claimed scum, and now lying when Elvis asked him a direct question that he KNEW THE ANSWER to in advance.

Additionally, he holds to the concept that "I found taut scummy all game, so my vote isn't that big of a deal." I find this concept, quite insane. You do not hammer someone within the first days of a new day on the fifth day when we're close to LyLo, and you DO NOT hammer within hours of the first vote! That is not even mentioning the oddness of both Andy and Tar's votes right before that. Anyone acting with that much reckless abandon can ONLY be scum who smell blood in the air and feel like that final vote will win them the game.

And I don't even take the "I found taut scummy all game" argument with anything more than a grain of salt. That sounds much more scummy than townie. Anyone who find someone scummy, for basically very poor reasons, and then refuses to budge, despite overwhelming evidence that he should slow down and reevaluate his position does not make someone seem townie in the slightest to me.

No, as far as I'm concerned,

if any townie has a Night Kill ability, they should use it on farside. Additionally if someone has the SPAM ability, they should also use it on farside.

.

That is all.

[Kinetic]

Alright, I hope everyone got what they need.

Kinetic looked around at the gathered town. They had no idea how he was able to do it, but he had stripped one of the only abilities which they always thought they'd have. Worse for some in the crowd, that power which was taken for granted was to be used to end this horrible game where it stood.

I choose to execute Tarhalindur

[Kinetic]

Farside and Andy are the remaining mafia. I plan on killing one of them today and the other next. I'm trying to figure out which to kill first though.

[Kinetic]

I choose to execute Andycyca.

[Kinetic]

Other way around farside. After my entire first family was murdered by you and Andy, I made a proposition to elvis.

What's kind of funny though is that if the scum was smart, they would have killed one of the children last night. It would have been the only smart play remaining from the scum, although something interesting did happen.

Anyway, I already realized a while ago that if I was wrong and Elvis was scum the game was over for town. Thankfully, I don't have to worry about that now.

So, Dizzy, you're one of my children, and Armlx, you're now one of my step children. But you're also both elvis's kids.

Now, there are two possibilities here.

Elvis is town, therefore Dizzy is definitely town and Armlx is either town or scum.
Elvis is cult, therefore Dizzy might be town and Armlx is definitely scum, but is either cult or scum.

Now: Because there were three kills before any of the children were born, we know for a fact that three scum live.

Therefore: Either myself or farside is the last of the remaining original scum.

And I propose, that since I've been killing the other scum and pretty much single handedly made it so town win this game, if either of you two are town, then we win this game by voting for farside.

Vote:Farside

Vote:Farside

[Kinetic]

Also, I think its kind of funny. If armlx IS scum, and Dizzy is town, the town STILL win.

Why:
I can't be killed, and thus will have at least mayoral double vote, even if I don't have emperor vote anymore.
If arm kills Dizzy, the final two are me and him, and I double vote him into oblivion.

Therefore: Dizzy, if you're town, you can insure a town win by voting with me and voting farside.

[Kinetic]

Dear Farside:

There were three deaths before Armix was BORN.

Tar admitted there was three scum at that time.

Therefore, visa vi, either you or I are the third scum.

LRN2COUNT, L2P, Scum scum scummy scum.

The only thing you could be accomplishing with that little vote is distancing.

Don't worry. If the game doesn't end with your lynch, I already know that Armlx is the last scum.

GG NO RE

[Kinetic]

Vote: Armlx

I SAID GOOD DAY!

[Kinetic]

Vote Armlx (Vote:#2)

(Since there are four live votes (I have mayoral status) I'm pretty sure its 3 votes to lynch. Either way, this will end the game one way or another)

[Kinetic]

Long, but very intensive game.

Woot!

This is one going in the win column that I'm going to be proud of.

[Kinetic]

Also, guys, I wasn't NK immune.

The reason I stated I WAS NK immune was because everytime someone attempts to NK me, I either lose 2 items on my list or 3 items not on my list.

Therefore, if a group tried to multi-kill me, or just wittled down my good items, I couldn't have maintained Emperor status. In fact, the reason I lost it was because one person tried to NK me.

Which is funny, because if you had NKed the other person and then double NKed me the next night, Town would have lost because I'd have lost even mayoral status at that point.

[Kinetic]

Agreed. Awesome game Raj. Pre-Sign me up if you do another one.

In an odd side note, the picture you posted for my character holds an oddly striking resemblance to the way I look in real life. Freaky.

[Kinetic]

Honestly farside, I was hoping for that sort of apathy from the mafia. It was also the reason I killed the mafia in the order I did.

I felt Tar could have figured out, or at least would have tried to find a way to break my hold. He would have realized that if the game was as open/shut as I was pretending it was, then there must be a reason the game wasn't over.


I chose to daykill Tar first for multiple reasons. 1) He had mayor status, which would have locked the game for scum had I not both had mayor and Emperor status at that point. 2) I was hoping the mafia NKs were tied to items, and his partners might not have them. So I tried to use the steal command to strip mafia at night at the same time as I was lynching other ones. 3) Because Tar was pretty much the voice of the mafia all game long. He seemed to be at the top of the power structure and I was hoping, with out its head, the rest of the mafia would give up.

Armlx's birth actually countered the carefully planned birth of MOS that I hoped would keep the town from losing and throw off the three scum who just virtually outed themselves. With the 4th scum, at that point in the game it made it I believe 4 scum against 4 townies. If it was 3 scum against 4 townies, the math made it so much easier for me to guarantee a win. But the fourth scum threw my numbers off. At the point I activated my Emperor ability, it was SCUM: (Tar, Andy, Farside, Armlx) vs. Town: (Kin, Elvis, Noah, MOS). If Farside had actually killed noah, who was his intended victim it would have been 4 Scum vs. 3 town, and even with my Emperor ability activated, it would have been virtually impossible for the town to win.

But what really sucked for me was thinking that if elvis was a neutral or anti-town role of anything, I could have been assuring the town and the mafia lost and gave the win to elvis's team. Thankfully the scum must have been thinking along similar lines, because their kills helped me breath a few sighs of relief. (Thanks for killing Grint, Flameaxe, and Elvis. Huge sighs of relief that they weren't the real mafia. lol.)

I chose to Daykill Andy over farside mainly because Andy pretty much said that he wasn't on my team, and because I thought farside might have been the mafia that forgot to kill. Another little slip up that helped push this razor close game to the towns side.

The day after I killed Tar was long, mainly because I wanted to really power up my NK-immune ability. Ironically, none of the town sent me the items I would have needed to supercharge it. *facepalm*

We went into the day losing two more, leaving the game as 3 Scum (Andy, farside, armlx) vs. 2 town (Myself, Elvis). At this point, I was still hoping that Armlx was town, but wasn't sure, mainly because his papa was Tar, so I continued to think of him as scum in my worst case scenario's and planned as such. I noticed, as looking over the night actions, that the mafia screwed up the previous night as well. Both Armlx and Andy both sent Night Kills in to kill MOS. While this hid Armlx from being caught by me, if one of them would have killed elvis, the game would have ended! Another miscommunication that cost the mafia dearly.

Anyway, I quick-lynched Andy so the scum didn't have much time to plan, and then I sexy-timed Elvis, and got Dizzy out of the deal, which pretty much countered the Elvis kill that night from Farside. Armlx attempted to kill me, and since I lost Emperor status I figured that armlx must have been mafia. I thought he just got his kill that night, since if he had it the last night, we could have lost.

Since I was still a mayor though, town outnumbered the mafia 3-2 in votes, and I was able to push through the farside lynch, even without emperor status.

Since I was able to think up the SPAM attack, I was able to counter Armlx completely, effectively making Dizzy just icing on the cake. But that being said, if he wasn't there the previous day, we would have been deadlocked at 2 votes to 2 votes, and at deadline, the mafia could have Double killed me, and if the didn't kill me, they'd have at least taken out my mayor ability and won the game. But since they weren't able to, Dizzy and I went into an endgame that no matter what Armlx did at night (almost), we'd have won.

The ONLY thing Armlx could have done at that night to win would have been A) Not being spammed successfully. B) Killing Dizzy And C) Usinh his second Night Action to steal my bottle of alcohol.

If he'd have done that, I'd have lost the mayor and Emperor ability, and we'd have gone into Day 1-1 and at deadline he'd have his NK and eventually he'd be able to kill me.

So, scummers, this game was a LOT closer then I ever let on, and I knew one slip on my part would have lost the game. Heck, there were two MAJOR slip ups from mafia that resulted either from miscommunication or inattentiveness that would most likely have won you guys the game.