Large Normal 220: Jazz Mafia [Game Over!]

[NerfedBuJ]

The moderator team might be more lit than the playerlist.

Whoever ruins this game will have hell to pay.

VOTE: Airick

[NerfedBuJ]

Sky do you want to mod or play this game?
You put this shit in the normal queue so the rules say you can't do both.

[NerfedBuJ]

@Tet - Thoughts on TLK? I'm lean town reading him, but he posted in a way to set me up as a mislynch if I ever went at him.

Our townreads are pretty much the same. His early townread on Baezu for the VC comment was +town, his overall demeanor is town over scum indicative for him specifically and he hasn't forced any town or scum reads which I also find +town for tlk.

Interesting.. his reads WERE forced imo.
But then I don't understand why he would have this many people townreading him if they didn't know his alignment. Like any townie should have been pinged by TLK but like nobody was.

[NerfedBuJ]

Asking everyone here, with your past history of games, what is the accuracy of your day 1 Town/Scum vibes.

Boom can be town.

The guy voting the leading wagon on a player who was asleep?

[NerfedBuJ]

@skitter's read on me is bs or scummy

She doesn't just shade me like that prematurely without any clear attempt at talking to me, and lately she's been scumreading town!me as scum in the early game.

And what's particularly suspicious about that is that as far as she knows from my BuJaber meta that I can't be read based on just this, she has a solid belief that I have a tryharding range as town I just can't reach as scum. She hasn't see nerfedbuj in action so she can't know if I've changed or not.

So basically yeah.

Also the people who are talking as if they know FL but deciding to actually try to read him are making me laugh.
Just ignore FL, if he doesn't get NK'd at some point lynch him. He plays a mafia game solo by himself by playing all the characters. That is not an ISO that anyone can actually sort. I don't like when people pretend they can.

[NerfedBuJ]

Vote Lucian? Or why not?

I don't like lucian slot but I don't like the votes on her either. Need more posts from the voters first

[NerfedBuJ]

Put it this way, everyone voting for lucian has expressed some suspicion on me in some way.
So why would they be willing to build a counterwagon to mine?

[NerfedBuJ]

If you're paranoid because of last game that's understandable but how are my latest posts bad? What do you disagree with apart from you thinking TLK's reads aren't forced and I think they were?

Forced reads don't necessarily mean scum he could have been trying something and it came out wrong.

@TLK - fair enough I thought you were the one who voted me in RVS, it was someone else. you're still only 1 vote out of the other 3 meh ones and I'm still not sure on your alignment.

[NerfedBuJ]

I don't necessarily disagree with your reads though Skitter and Lucian are the only ones you addressed specifically. I have issue with the way that you inserted yourself into the game largely by sowing doubt with no real stances either way.

I don't know if this will help you or not but since you're drawing parallels with the last game I should tell you I think it was obvious my game plan involved buddying either you or nero. The reason I had to pick nero was because we thought he could be tracker, and I thought it would be easier for me as a scum!watcher to buddy a town tracker. It also has the added benefit of baiting him into targetting me instead of one of my buddies performing the kill.

I wasn't just sowing random doubt.

[NerfedBuJ]

I kinda think FL and skitter are distancing but like I said I don't think it's worth pushing a player like FL. You just apply the "is he dead yet" tell on him. Why else would he keep insisting in every game that he doesn't get lynched as scum. He is claiming he's townier as scum than town. I don't have enough meta to disagree with him on his own self analysis.

But he could be town here because he's townreading saudade and pushing skitter.

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj if you have a case for why Lucian being your counterwagon is significant I'd like to hear it from your perspective.

I'm saying that all the people who voted for lucian (except for TLK who has corrected me on this) expressed a suspicion on me but instead of joining my wagon that already had 3 votes they voted for lucian one by one until his wagon matched mine in size.

It looks like they were scared to commit to a pre-established wagon.

[NerfedBuJ]

Pay attention to 0 of FL's self meta. If for nothing else than the fact that he's aware these are things he's read for, which makes them bad things to read him for. It's convulted but he isn't a hard read.

That’s what i’m saying, but people think I’m difficult to read for some reason just because I’m charismatic and won people over as scum with my charm

Ftr I was saying what makes you difficult to read is you seem to play multiple characters all at once. So your ISO reads like a 4-headed hydra instead of a single person.

I'm struggling to describe it, I think this comes close to what I'm trying to say.

[NerfedBuJ]

Plus you have a pattern of saying you don't get lynched as scum. And that sort of statement just implies you're more townier on the surface as scum. Or worse you play badly as town.

Pedit - this post is @FL

[NerfedBuJ]

why are all of the above players ignoring boomboom

He's insignificant

[NerfedBuJ]

@skitter's read on me is bs or scummy

She doesn't just shade me like that prematurely without any clear attempt at talking to me, and lately she's been scumreading town!me as scum in the early game.

And what's particularly suspicious about that is that as far as she knows from my BuJaber meta that I can't be read based on just this,

she has a solid belief that I have a tryharding range as town

I just can't reach as scum. She hasn't see nerfedbuj in action so she can't know if I've changed or not.

So basically yeah.

Also the people who are talking as if they know FL but deciding to actually try to read him are making me laugh.
Just ignore FL, if he doesn't get NK'd at some point lynch him. He plays a mafia game solo by himself by playing all the characters. That is not an ISO that anyone can actually sort. I don't like when people pretend they can.

I actually cant tell if i agree or disagree with this or not
Idk if i agree with the bolded or if that's how i read u
I dont have much else to say about this really

Bolded was based on the primary reason you caught me in stack the deck (the game with ruru.. just in case I got the name mixed up).

Though maybe tryharding is the wrong word I dunno.. how about nuanced logic? Activity definitely plays a part. You know I tend to lose steam faster as scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj if you have a case for why Lucian being your counterwagon is significant I'd like to hear it from your perspective.

I'm saying that all the people who voted for lucian (except for TLK who has corrected me on this) expressed a suspicion on me but instead of joining my wagon that already had 3 votes they voted for lucian one by one until his wagon matched mine in size.

It looks like they were scared to commit to a pre-established wagon.

Your wagon only had, what, 4 voted at the time? It's a large, lynch threshold is 9 i think, why would they be scared to commit to this wagon? And why woukd they prefer to start a new wagon instead? Who amingst these players r u most suspicious of?

Hammering isn't the only suspicious thing in the game. If 7 votes landed on one person in the first like 48 hours of the game that would look suspicious when I'm eventually flipped.

I don't know why that's the point. If town why not vote for someone you think is scum who has votes on them.

You. A little less sure now but not enough to put you as a null or town lean yet.
Ofrhz seems town but he's kind of flip flopping on me. The vote has been consistent but posts have not when discussing me. So that's weird.

Not sure how to read the other 2 yet. But TLK wasn't scumreading me so this doesn't apply to him anymore.

[NerfedBuJ]

Saudade point wasn't that he's not a big name. He has no influence so far and no obvious agenda. His naked votes are meaningless, he hasn't given any reasoning yet.

If he's scum he's simply not dangerous to keep alive, and not difficult to lynch later.

If he's town maybe he'll give us more insight into how he thinks or maybe he'll bait a scum-led lynch at some point.

It's too early to lynch him unless we get a guilty on him. He's new, probably bad, let him get his sea legs a little. I know you said it doesn't excuse him and I definitely agree. I've lynched bad town for playing scummy and when they flipped I didn't regret it at all. But there is a right time to do it. Right now there are active discussions on multiple other people. Several interesting wagons and a handful of lurkers. Lynching one low poster empty content slot when several aren't even posting is just letting them coast for free.

I don't like lynching a low poster/lurker when there are others in the same category until I have more evidence to go on (such as an emerging pattern throught the game). And when it's a new player especially because they tend to have an equal chance of flipping town and scum when playing badly. Unlike experienced players who ought to know better.

So... he's insignificant

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj if you have a case for why Lucian being your counterwagon is significant I'd like to hear it from your perspective.

I'm saying that all the people who voted for lucian (except for TLK who has corrected me on this) expressed a suspicion on me but instead of joining my wagon that already had 3 votes they voted for lucian one by one until his wagon matched mine in size.

It looks like they were scared to commit to a pre-established wagon.

like... mate.

Put it this way, everyone voting for lucian has expressed some suspicion on me in some way.
So why would they be willing to build a counterwagon to mine?

Because before this you only had two rvs posts whereas Lucian actually had content

And yet y'all thought my entrance was scum-indicative.

[NerfedBuJ]

Then you shouldn't have mentioned me at all.
It was baseless shading on something not AI for me from people who know me well enough.

The townie move would have been to wait for me to post more.

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: skitter

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: skitter

Where this coming from? Skitters read on you?

Coming from me not voting earlier when I've made my case.

[NerfedBuJ]

I don't religiously read ur posts.

[NerfedBuJ]

Who do you think you can read accurately here and how are you reading them?

[NerfedBuJ]

Then you shouldn't have mentioned me at all.
It was baseless shading on something not AI for me from people who know me well enough.

The townie move would have been to wait for me to post more.

Like this post is shading ofrhz and invalidating ofrhz's gutread on him by saying that ofrhz was wrong to share a gutping since townies should have waited for buj to post more instead of using his rvs post to try to sort him.

And my problems with this are:

A) of course people can form reads on rvs posts. Not off of every rvs post, but it is indeed possible to start forming reads off of that part of the game. And by writing this post, buj is invalidating the whole notion of rvs and that people can form reads there (and thus discrediting the scumreads people had on him)

B) even if we start with the assumption that townies should have waited for buj to post more .... does not doing so mean that someone is scummy? Townies do this all the time, even if buj may think it's suboptimal or the wrong way to play. Why is this something to scumread people over if people do this ... all the time

This is absolutely horrible of you to say.
You know I absolutely adore RVS and day 1 is my favorite day. I will worship people who catch scum in RVS with me.

That was definitely not the point I was making or else I wouldn't have formed my own reads.

The point was when he (and you btw) throw out a shade like that one someone who has votes on them when you don't even join that wagon you are just encouraging more votes on me from people who know me less.

And this is even worse when it is done to someone like me, who you are halfway decent at reading ONCE YOU SEE ENOUGH POSTS FROM ME.

And so what that action did was basically encourage a wagon based on a single post despite me being a player who gets sorted with time, and not only that but you and ofrhz didn't have the courage to join the wagon itself and push me.

Like the game is all about sorting people and pushing scum. And if you had the intention of doing either when you thought I was scum, ie either pressure me to see my reaction or lynch me when you think I'm scum, you would have actually placed a vote instead of passively signing some noncommital hypothetical petition to lynch me.

You want to accuse me of dismissing RVS how about you actually read a few of my latest games. Like the game where I caught 1 scum in RVS. Never let it go, caught his partner for defending him, and town ended up losing the game for not listening to me.

I am the first person to admit I may suck at talking and making my points but I am literally the last person on this site to belittle RVS. I would be insulting my self if I did that because so many games I've had correct scumreads in RVS or day 1 and if I didn't believe in it I would only conclude that I got lucky and I refuse to believe that my correct reads are just pure luck.

I thought my point was pretty clear and you're spinning this is really horrible from you. You not only want to defend not committing to a wagon on one of you're scumreads (which is a very basic common scumtell everyone knows about) but you actually want to spin it like I'm saying something unorthodox??!

Like hell lynch me if you want it so bad I'd rather die than have my respect for the game questioned.

[NerfedBuJ]

And since my entry post is apparently so scummy how about a little context. I had no interest in joining this game. I didn't even know it was in signups. Sky invited me and specifically called the playerlist lit. So I joined because I thought it would be fun. Then I made that post.

[NerfedBuJ]

@skitter - Just so you know I don't let normal interactions in games affect me outside of the game as long as it doesn't cross the irl insult line and even then I understand it can get heated I don't fault you for anything definitely wouldn't want you to think you upset me personally. It was a moment and it passed and other moments will come and they'll pass.

Tbh I regret not composing myself better my reaction may have been harsh.

It's not going to make me not scumread you. But I'll try to reassess with more objectivity

[NerfedBuJ]

Maybe Enigma looks bad too?

I can see lucian and vork scum on skitter wagon. Not sure about baezu yet. Can see 1 of flavor and fire being a deep wolf but really I doubt fire is scum.

If flavor knows skitter as much as he seems to think then he definitely could be scum.

Don't know what to think of krazy now. I'm kind of in the same boat as fire I think I always scumread him but I don't remember playing with scum!krazy. Kind of a weird rep-out if scum though, like sure maybe it's fake but I don't see that kind of emotional "not gonna deal with this" coming from scum, like why would he be offended by getting 'trolled' as scum. It's weird let's ignore the rep-out I shouldn't go down this rabbit hole.

[NerfedBuJ]

Yeah I don't like how lucian called me crazy for thinking FL -skitter were distancing. That was a good observation from me like let's be honest. A better one if FL flips scum, but it even works if they're TvT since skitter was intentionally being scummy and using it to 1v1 gather reads on people.

VOTE: Lucian

[NerfedBuJ]

In fact I would expect at least one paranoid townie thinking me v. Skitter was theater also but that didn't happen. Instead I get called out for 'bad logic'

[NerfedBuJ]

This case becomes stronger if skitter admits she lied about saying my logic was bad because then lucian is just sheeping her read knowing she's town before the rest of us.

[NerfedBuJ]

@skitter - I was referring to this string of posts.

Then you shouldn't have mentioned me at all.
It was baseless shading on something not AI for me from people who know me well enough.

The townie move would have been to wait for me to post more.

Like this post is shading ofrhz and invalidating ofrhz's gutread on him by saying that ofrhz was wrong to share a gutping since townies should have waited for buj to post more instead of using his rvs post to try to sort him.

And my problems with this are:

A) of course people can form reads on rvs posts. Not off of every rvs post, but it is indeed possible to start forming reads off of that part of the game. And by writing this post, buj is invalidating the whole notion of rvs and that people can form reads there (and thus discrediting the scumreads people had on him)

B) even if we start with the assumption that townies should have waited for buj to post more .... does not doing so mean that someone is scummy? Townies do this all the time, even if buj may think it's suboptimal or the wrong way to play. Why is this something to scumread people over if people do this ... all the time

His logic is bad, but how confident are you he's scum for it?

It's not just the illogic, it's that he's using the illogic to shade scumreads on him

Idk how confident i am, i think it's worth pushing

I'm not sure I agree with you here on him being scum because of this. He's had other hiccups of bad logic elsewhere, like claiming you and FL were distancing was pretty out-there.
He seems pretty wrapped up in metagame surrounding his slot as well considering his push on you. His standards seem pretty high for his expectations on how people should read him.

[NerfedBuJ]

Yeah I don't like how lucian called me crazy for thinking FL -skitter were distancing. That was a good observation from me like let's be honest. A better one if FL flips scum, but it even works if they're TvT since skitter was intentionally being scummy and using it to 1v1 gather reads on people.

But that's having it both ways? That's actually having it

all

ways considering your last line. Still don't see how you were confident in an SvS take between FL and skitter earlier, and the re-justification in this post just doesn't apply now that skit is conf. town.

Distancing basically scum theater.

Skitter has admitted she was acting scummy and gambitting. Ie theater. That's one half.

FL if scum obviously knew skitter is town and was acting funny but pushed it nonetheless to appear uninformed. Ie theater.

FL if town claims in 983 that he knew something was off and that skitter is possibly town but was pushing her anyway. Ie theater.

Why am I wrong in misreading such theatrics as SvS distancing?

[NerfedBuJ]

Btw I had no intention of following through on a skitter lynch- I voted based on FL's suggestion and would've unvoted (have proven track record of doing this) on intent to hammer.
The wagon progression was to help people scum hunt.

You guys have seen my readlist in #445 right?
Please tell me all of you have seen this before throwing out accusations

I am pushing Buj independently- he's just not responding to me

What exactly am I supposed to respond to?

[NerfedBuJ]

Your AtEs and interactions with others feel slightly off, your reads feel forced and agenda-driven.
Other people have said this, yet there's no "real wagon" on you.

None of this is true though.
Okay 1 thing is true I have an agenda to lynch scum and show off my reading skills.

But even the part about other people I think is just not true. Like 2 people other than you are explicitly stating a scumread on me. And almost everyone who commented on my "AtEs and interactions" seemed to think I'm town for them.

[NerfedBuJ]

Also your post makes it sound like you're more upset at other people for not voting me than at me.

And I don't recall you saying these things to me earlier and asking for a response from me so I don't know where the "not responding to me" came from.

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: Baezu

Suddenly very comfortable with this vote.

I really want to lynch in lucian/vorkuta/FL/creature right now and it's distracting me from other slots. Why baezu? This post makes it sound like you found something really meaningful.

[NerfedBuJ]

That reminds me. I think it's suspicious you townread skitter that was being intentionally scummy.

Are you scum? Or maybe you can't read her as much as you think.

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: vorkuta

I don't scumread lucian anymore.

[NerfedBuJ]

Tet where are you?

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: vorkuta

I don't scumread lucian anymore.

Why not?

I don't see evidence of scum intent in her attitude and read towards me.

Through her interactions with me and others I think she's said enough to show that she is neither trying to lynch me nor pocket me.

I know this is pretty self-centered but like I'm a big part of her ISO so it's hard to ignore.

And I don't know who she is so I don't know why the 3rd scum alternative would apply. Which is focusing on me so that she can avoid talking much about other people/current game events. Also she hasn't been doing that either from what I can see.

[NerfedBuJ]

Sorry the avatar threw me off. Replace all the pronouns.

[NerfedBuJ]

If ank flips town I'll scumread Tet.
Tet does feel off compared to the two games I've played with RCE.

I just can't trust Ank while she's alive.

Also if anyone is in love with ank I'd like to know now so I don't scumread you incorrectly if you agree too much with her.

[NerfedBuJ]

Actually that's not exactly accurate. What happened last time was I sheeped a read of someone who knew her better than I did instead of trusting my own read.
I'm not saying it would have had any effect on that game, but I just don't like having wrong reads.

[NerfedBuJ]

If ank flips town I'll scumread Tet.
Tet does feel off compared to the two games I've played with RCE.

I just can't trust Ank while she's alive.

Also if anyone is in love with ank I'd like to know now so I don't scumread you incorrectly if you agree too much with her.

I don't get why ank scumreading me makes me scum, that's sus.

The two games you played with me were ok2 where I was 3p and the tilted normal that I just couldn't get around Nero's massive... Brainpower.

On the other side of the coin I've only played with scum!buj and townread you early both times. You might just be town here for it. That's not a solid read btw.

Nothing except that when she pointed it out I realized I kinda agree that you're a bit different from what I've experienced.

But honestly I forgot you were 3p in ok2 so it's probably not AI.

And maybe I was subconsciously exaggerating how much in sync I felt we were in those games because ultimately I was if not pocketing you at least trying to get you not to scumread me.

[NerfedBuJ]

@skitter's read on me is bs or scummy

She doesn't just shade me like that prematurely without any clear attempt at talking to me, and lately she's been scumreading town!me as scum in the early game.

And what's particularly suspicious about that is that as far as she knows from my BuJaber meta that I can't be read based on just this, she has a solid belief that I have a tryharding range as town I just can't reach as scum. She hasn't see nerfedbuj in action so she can't know if I've changed or not.

So basically yeah.

Also the people who are talking as if they know FL but deciding to actually try to read him are making me laugh.
Just ignore FL, if he doesn't get NK'd at some point lynch him. He plays a mafia game solo by himself by playing all the characters. That is not an ISO that anyone can actually sort. I don't like when people pretend they can.

I don't remember NerfedBuj being aggressive like this.

Nerfed, or me in general?

Because if it's the latter that's just not true.

[NerfedBuJ]

I'm generally more reserved as nerfed yes it's a valid observation but a shallow one. I'm still me, and I've never been afraid to say why I'm scumreading someone, nerfed or not.

[NerfedBuJ]

NerfedBuj is actually incorrect hard.

People can easily read me on site now. And I’m generally not so fluffy with my playing. I’m just busy in real life right now and in a whole lot of games, and modding 2.

I also play Mafia the exact opposite, i like working as a team rather than playing alone, so that’s a blatant misrep on NerfedBuj

It was an observation from my pov. If you don't see yourself like that that's not going to change anything.

You say things you don't mean sometimes and gauge reactions and your tone changes quite often, maybe uinintentionally I don't know, but it makes it hard for me to read you because your ISOs genuinenly look like multiple personalities.

[NerfedBuJ]

And I think people who claim they can read you from early day 1 are lying to themselves so I said what I said.

[NerfedBuJ]

Oi Baezu wagon.. can I interest you in the vork wagon? I don't want to lynch someone who's literally not there. Also I don't scumread LUV. That leaves vork wagon.

And he hasn't changed his read on me I think he's afraid of how it will look to sheep in and sheep out of that scumread so he's sticking to his guns a little.

[NerfedBuJ]

I don't know lucian I think enigma is town. Just not giving me any reason to be paranoid.

[NerfedBuJ]

How about scum are jumping on the ank wagon because they see an opportunity to lynch her when a) it didn't exist with krazy and b) might not come if she actually plays for real. That still a beginner read or can we move forward?

[NerfedBuJ]

From what I see no two players have agreed on a set of townreads or a set of scumreads.. it's a strange game this.

Also I forgot airick is in this game how I wish that were one of the top wagons. But it's not so for another day.

[NerfedBuJ]

Only 3 votes on ank? There's a lot more "I scumread this but not going to vote" here than what I thought then. That's even more indicative I would say.

[NerfedBuJ]

Like skitter is IC, I tr lucian strongly, I have a confident-ish TR on saudade

[NerfedBuJ]

Ever just felt that something is right even if the evidence indicates otherwise?
Scum are among those who stated an SR on ank but didn't vote

[NerfedBuJ]

Be brave and just admit you did this so I don't have to reread the last 15 pages. If you don't I do you'll be deathtunnelled.

[NerfedBuJ]

I don't know if it's a perception bias but like I'm getting annoyed at how much more of an impact creature seems to have in games I'm scum in versus those I'm town in.

Or is that the new scumtell for him?

[NerfedBuJ]

I do have a tendency to mix up games in my head but like I could have sworn there was more support for an ank lynch otherwise why did I read 3 pages of people talking about it specifically

[NerfedBuJ]

Airick is creature

It's confirmed then. I'm lynching creature day 2.

[NerfedBuJ]

I don't know if it's a perception bias but like I'm getting annoyed at how much more of an impact creature seems to have in games I'm scum in versus those I'm town in.

Or is that the new scumtell for him?

It would probably be the bias. He's just an easy slot to townbin which is frustrating for scum.

Yeah but either he's only good at reading me and nobody else or he just selectively puts in the effort, because lately it's like impossible to get him to townread me when I'm scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

Why is vork a better lynch than creature? @buj

Strategically better to hammer a pre-established wagon.

[NerfedBuJ]

I got that bill and I stand by it. Ank is scummy, Krazy wasn't. Yet I'll defend Ank day 1 on that premise even if her scumread on me is faulty.

Your stance on the slot made the most sense to me, like if I put myself in your shoes (TRing a predecessor but SRing a replacement).

I townread her posting more than I did krazy's though tbh.

It just screams lazy town right now and/or trying to find her groove.

[NerfedBuJ]

Why is vork a better lynch than creature? @buj

Strategically better to hammer a pre-established wagon.

Though I was expecting us to be closer to deadline so this is not as profound as I thought.

[NerfedBuJ]

I may have more to say on ank but like I don't think it would convince you any more than what I've said and I don't want her to continue doing things I'm townreading if she's scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

Airick is creature

It's confirmed then. I'm lynching creature day 2.

Que?

He replaced airick

[NerfedBuJ]

Airick is creature

It's confirmed then. I'm lynching creature day 2.

Que?

He replaced airick

I know that. What about Air’s 5 posts makes him lock scum for you?

They're weird and he's really pockety/going with the flow with saudade, a popular townread among most.

And frankly creature feels just slightly off.

[NerfedBuJ]

Airick is creature

It's confirmed then. I'm lynching creature day 2.

Que?

He replaced airick

I know that. What about Air’s 5 posts makes him lock scum for you?

They're weird and he's really pockety/going with the flow with saudade, a popular townread among most.

And frankly creature feels just slightly off.

You kinda lost me at pocketing. Trying not to dismiss this argument entirely but it’s buzzword that makes me always want to do so. I really don’t want to do that here. I don’t think he was pocketing and I don’t see why town can’t attempt to pocket.

Fair enough. Use of buzzwords is pretty bad in most cases and doesn't tell you anything real. It's still how I feel about it. His postcount may have been very low but I don't think they can be dismissed a NAI.

[NerfedBuJ]

I'm fairly confident A50 is town but I have mafia policies and I can't play favorites.

You took the gambit too far this time my friend and you claimed scum

VOTE: A50

[NerfedBuJ]

Yes I'm voting A50 for claiming scum despite my read on the slot.
Why is that scummy?

[NerfedBuJ]

I read Krazy->Ankamius->Almost50's posts, this is not how a scum would talk.

I agree but nobody should claim scum. Not even venge. It's still better to be kept alive and hide your vengefulness until such time when you do get lynched.

Yes I'm voting A50 for claiming scum despite my read on the slot.
Why is that scummy?

Because you want an easy lynch.

Then why did I not join it when it was ank? It was a big wagon being pushed by an IC.

[NerfedBuJ]

I read Krazy->Ankamius->Almost50's posts, this is not how a scum would talk.

I agree but nobody should claim scum. Not even venge. It's still better to be kept alive and hide your vengefulness until such time when you do get lynched.

Yes I'm voting A50 for claiming scum despite my read on the slot.
Why is that scummy?

Because you want an easy lynch.

Then why did I not join it when it was ank? It was a big wagon being pushed by an IC.

Because it would look too scummy to do.

So voting ank would look scummy but wouldn't be scummy,
Voting A50 is scummy but doesn't look scummy?

Like you think as scum I would decide you know what I can't make a vote on ank look good and then think policy lynching someone is a good look?

If I were afraid of how it would look I would still be afraid of how it would look. Scum don't suddenly grow cajones.

[NerfedBuJ]

@A50 - generally speaking I wouldn't investigate you. I have a good enough track record of reading you even if it isn't 100%, I'd rather go with someone harder to read/harder to lynch. You inspire paranoia, if I think you're scum you'd be a little easier to push than some other veterans.

I'm just policy lynching here though. I'm part of MS.net now I have a responsibility to do my part in improving it. Scumclaims are stupid.

[NerfedBuJ]

Might go to Lucian if we don't go A50;

Why lucian?

[NerfedBuJ]

I'm glad the vork wagon is now actually viable.

VOTE: Vork

It was always viable but then A50 claimed scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

Creature is brushing all my posts about him I guess?

VOTE: A50

Scum were about to bus, and the Vork train is a last ditch effort to save their buddy, A50. Mic drop.

I fully expect A50 to flip town. We ought to lynch him anyway for the scum claim.
How would that change your analysis?

Actually I believe Elsa will be willing to give everyone here a lesson learned story on how a gambit that involves scum claiming is bad. Unless he's too arrogant to learn from jungle republic.

So you know.. scum claim is either scum or anti-town town. Lynch .. or waste our time some more if you want to go for the longest day 1 record.. i dunno what it is but it's probably a little ways off still.

[NerfedBuJ]

I can't read lurky enigma. It's a characteristic closer to his scum game I think but unfortunately it isn't exclusively scum for him.

[NerfedBuJ]

uhhhhhh is it normal for you to tell people not to sheep?

It should be normal when I tell Vork not to sheep after he was "forced" to fake-confirm a scum as a friendly neighbor in the game that has just ended because he trusted the scum and a 3P player in his neighborhood.

Fair, but you specifically told him not to sheep me/fl/saudade - three people who incidentally happened to be pushing you at the time; it kinda came off as you telling him not to sheep since you don't wany more voted on you

Of course I don't want more votes on me. This isn't even AI and you know it. As town I much prefer to get NK'd, and as scum I don't want to be lynched on D1. So what's your point?

Also, aside from you I don't even trust Saudade/FL, and even if they were mod-confirmed somehow I know my own alignment so all 3 of you have a bad read on my slot. You may not see it because you don't have access to my role PM, but many thought you were scum before you were confirmed and only you knew for a fact that their reads were bad. (Whether they were town!bad or scum!bad is the question, but it is now common knowledge that they were BAD).

You weren't here for it so I guess you're excused but considering she was making a conscious effort to play scummily, the people who townread her look far worse than those who scumread her. And I'm not just saying that as one of the latter.

[NerfedBuJ]

What we really need is an extension.

People are using the impending deadline as an excuse to not read.

And there's still time bef and elsa. We JUST got under 2 days. There's no need to rush people by using the deadline. That's scummy. You want more votes on vork say why it's a better wagon than others. Don't put the fear of no lynch as a reason.

And I'm saying this as an advocate for a vork lynch throughout the day.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think you also do better day 1 lynching a VT claim vs a potential PR, so...

Why is it only these 2 choices?

Like couldn't you apply the same tell you used on vork to deduce he isn't PR on anybody we wagon before deadline?

@BEF - I read the timer wrong.

[NerfedBuJ]

I was wrong. It's not the timer or the lurkers that is ruining this day.

It's that we have at least 3 people who refuse to lynch at least 3 people on day just because of who they are.

[NerfedBuJ]

I want to go on record saying I scumread creature just so I can hold it over whoever town is among {FL, A50} and skitter if I'm right.

I have a tell for creature..if his reads suck he isn't town.

But to be fair I've never seen scum creature post. He shared a game once and I never bothered to read it all I've ever seen from scum!creature is unrelenting silence.

[NerfedBuJ]

Who are you talking about exactly

A50 never lynches elsa day 1.

FL apparently never lynches RCE day 1 (but I don't know FL well maybe it's just this game, that's what I understood).

Elsa never lynches A50 day 1.

Nobody lynches creature day 1 if creature posts more than once is like the standard.

[NerfedBuJ]

Not really that easy Nerf. It's because of how long the wagon's been on him and with him being on l-2 for awhile. His only way out is relying on the IC to Powerlynch me or something. He posted recently and saw the 24 hour deadline but insists on staying quiet instead because he knows his claim isn't getting him out of it.

Basically he's using Skitter to get out of dying ATM.

Okay hypothetically,

What does VT!vork claim here?

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: creature

Buj makes a compelling argument

That was a compelling argument?

Are you scum?

Just say yes if you are it's okay nobody here will lynch you. See the A50 wagon.

[NerfedBuJ]

Do I seem more likely to flip scum or Vork? We can't really dilly dally anymore. I'll take the heat if he ACTUALLY flips Town.

I thought Fire was town.

Otherwise I'd probably be scumreading you as I tend to do that always.

You... have been posting quite suspiciously. Like I think vork needs to be lynched early in the game because it's super hard not to scumread him and he'll never be NK'd by scum if he's town. But the way you're going about it just doesn't sit right. And I'm just questioning the thought process.

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: NerfedBuj

I’m channeling my inner Wisdom.

Honest question mr I'm so open about my scum meta.

What percentage of scum games do you not try in?

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj- ask FL if I’m scum

FL is scumreading me and starting a vanity wagon on me.

His opinions.. at least his public opinions this game are not trustworthy.

I asked if you're scum because you don't seem to be reading my posts carefully.

[NerfedBuJ]

It’s not even a vanity wagon. I’ve been saying this since before A50 got into this game

I'm not questioning the timing of your read. Your read has been consistent. Flawlessly consistent in fact. Which could be scummy in itself but that's for another argument. I'm questioning the timing of the vote. No other votes on me and under 24 hours to go. It is a placeholder. But a placeholder implies temporary yet you've given no indication you're willing to move to a more permanent wagon.

Also I've never seen a day 1 where the top 5 wagons were all on town. I think that suggestion was just wild and I don't think you throw something like that out willy nilly if you're town.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think creature is scum.

I think if saudade is town, FL is scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

I also think actions speak louder than words, and words speak louder than silence.

That probably explains my two reads above.

[NerfedBuJ]

Also literally anybody who rolls scum has an incentive to kill an IC. Anybody who tries to suggest otherwise please laugh in their face.

[NerfedBuJ]

Enigma and vork claimed mason together right?

Nobody claimed mason with elsa?
Don't see any reason not to lynch Elsa then. I don't think it matters that baezu is alive. There's one kill only that's all that matters.

VOTE: Elsa

[NerfedBuJ]

Enigma and vork claimed mason together right?

Nobody claimed mason with elsa?
Don't see any reason not to lynch Elsa then. I don't think it matters that baezu is alive. There's one kill only that's all that matters.

VOTE: Elsa

Elsa claimed Mason?

I know she didn't. I was wondering if anyone said she is to stop her wagon.

I haven't read all of day 2 posts yet.

[NerfedBuJ]

Oh no, I am scum.

I know! I finally get to see scum!creature posting.

[NerfedBuJ]

Really amazing with how many games we've played together you've only rolled scum in 2 of them. And you were still doing you're no posts thing as scum back then

[NerfedBuJ]

Really amazing with how many games we've played together you've only rolled scum in 2 of them. And you were still doing YOUR no posts thing as scum back then

[NerfedBuJ]

I feel like people are missing the point.

Elsa claimed vig but there was only 1 night kill.
She was either lying or she killed skitter and scum shot was blocked somehoe.

I don't understand why people have started questioning mafia basics and making up all sorts of convoluted reasons not to lynch someone scummy.

[NerfedBuJ]

Nice reads less than intelligent beings.

Thanks for making the poe pool bigger.

I was sure last scum was in FL/creature but now there's too many choices.

VOTE: FL

I'm fairly certain FL is openwolfing just so he can shittalk you all for a hundred years. Because winning as scum is probably boring for him.

Because the alternative is FL being an idiot town. Lol yeah one of the top players in this game doesn't know how to play. Good luck convincing me.

And y'all better lynch creature if he doesn't improve DRASTICALLY

[NerfedBuJ]

And y'all better lynch creature if he doesn't improve DRASTICALLY

Why do you say Y'all? Already given up?

Because I'm dangerous to scum but not good at avoidong getting lynched. I predicted the future.

Nice reads less than intelligent beings.

Thanks for making the poe pool bigger.

I was sure last scum was in FL/creature but now there's too many choices.

Also, how do you know there is only 1 scum remaining?

Good question. My last 2 large normals have had 3 scum.
I said it by default. You're right that it might not be.


Okay I'll bite why am I scum?

Explain why my interactions, votes and firm stances on A50 and Elsa are bussing instead of me simply nailing 1 scum and PL'ing a self voter.

[NerfedBuJ]

And y'all better lynch creature if he doesn't improve DRASTICALLY

Hehe

Haha

[NerfedBuJ]

Baezu is town.

Super impressive read

[NerfedBuJ]

It's JAZZ mafia lads,
So sing it with me:

Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*
Do not let him live *clap*
Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*
Do not let him live *clap*
Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*
Do not let him live *clap*

*sax solo*

At least creature towned it up though,
So that's good BUT,

Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: Buj

And y'all better lynch creature if he doesn't improve DRASTICALLY

Why do you say Y'all? Already given up?

Because I'm dangerous to scum but not good at avoidong getting lynched. I predicted the future.

Nice reads less than intelligent beings.

Thanks for making the poe pool bigger.

I was sure last scum was in FL/creature but now there's too many choices.

Also, how do you know there is only 1 scum remaining?

Good question. My last 2 large normals have had 3 scum.
I said it by default. You're right that it might not be.


Okay I'll bite why am I scum?

Explain why my interactions, votes and firm stances on A50 and Elsa are bussing instead of me simply nailing 1 scum and PL'ing a self voter.

All I said of significance after your vote was this.
You dropped your suspicion awfully quickly.

[NerfedBuJ]

Did I miss something? He was visibly confused and then all he said was that he didn't believe that what happened were just coincidences.

Which actually now that I say it I'm not sure what he is referring to exactly.

I swear I do this at least once every game.

Sorry all

[NerfedBuJ]

Ehhh BoD cases are weak as a town tell. They're more useful as a scum tell. Gambits, partner dynamics, playerlists and the like all could screw up scum.

Besides we're talking about a scum team that included both a50 and elsa. Anything can happen.

[NerfedBuJ]

I mean you just bringing up new reasons that "prove you're town" isn't very convincing.

Pedit - you're also the guy who "would do THAT as scum"

[NerfedBuJ]

Wow I highlighted the wrong word in a 5 word quote

[NerfedBuJ]

Did I miss something? He was visibly confused and then all he said was that he didn't believe that what happened were just coincidences.

Which actually now that I say it I'm not sure what he is referring to exactly.

Nah, you didn't miss anything. My reasoning for Boon town is fairly, but not completely, solid: he busses as a last resort and very highly believes in the power of scumteams to win by working together.

Especially given the influence he often has on the game, if he's scum he probably can, and certainly will, prevent his buddies from being lynched D1 and D2.

NOW the shit he's been claiming is a different matter entirely, and I should probably just let the cat out of the bag on that one, because I guess I've been kinda obvious.

Yeah like I said BoD cases are weak imo when they're used to clear someone. If an active and capable town player is lurking and making shit cases you can say this guy is better than this he's probably scum. When a good scum player is losing/being scumread it's not that black and white because we're talking about scum. There's such a thing as wifom and gambitting and changing up your meta etc.

To be fair that's all irrelevant though anyway.

Flavor leaf is scum because every time scum has flipped he has claimed he made it happen by

not

pushing it or voting it, downright opposing it in fact.

And he was pushing saudade.

And the funny thing is one of his arguments for why he's town is he never busses but he hasn't even actually bussed here. Joining a big wagon late that most of the players were pushing is not really bussing, is it? That's a vote for survival.. that's just putting your name down in an online petition and claiming you're an activist.

[NerfedBuJ]

Wow and you almost got away with it Flavor Leaf.

You could have just killed me at night and naturally people would have scoffed at the evidence and ignored it.

But no I guess it bothered you that I pushed you.

Welcome to the world of town bujaber nailing scum left, right, and center.

I'm VT btw. I don't want people slowing down my martyrdom. Let's get on with it.

[NerfedBuJ]

Town needs to protect enigma/vork. Step up so scum are forced to kill you at night instead of them. It will shrink the PoE pool either way even if they do kill them earlier.

[NerfedBuJ]

Day-talk is enabled.

What a shame.. there was a tiny slither of hope that FL is town.

TLK if this is your first time playing on a forum then you did very very well.

I had you as town until your claim.

[NerfedBuJ]

There are no fake-claims off the table when coaching is on the table.

This isn't amateur hour

[NerfedBuJ]

@Flavor -
You've been saying rediculous things (such as the tll couldn't have faked that claim comment) and coming up with a very strange narrative for the game and the fact that you are not townreading me for calling you out on these things is pretty telling in its own right imo.

[NerfedBuJ]

Fine but if TLK flips anything other than his claim we lynch FL.

VOTE: BrightEyedFIsh

[NerfedBuJ]

I like bef's claim more than tlk's.

VOTE: TLK

[NerfedBuJ]

It's JAZZ mafia lads,
So sing it with me:

Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*
Do not let him live *clap*
Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*
Do not let him live *clap*
Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*
Do not let him live *clap*

*sax solo*

At least creature towned it up though,
So that's good BUT,

Flavor Leaf is scum *clap*

And the easiest way to prove it without pissing people off is to flip TLK.

Because apparently people love the too scummy to be scum argument even though every 2nd game on MS it gets proven wrong.

[NerfedBuJ]

Not confirming and denying is basically confirming.

I'm 99% sure of that because knowing vorkuta he could surprise me.
But basically that just makes sense to me.

So this is absolutely a terrible cop check. He can only live with mason confirmation. As soon as 1 mason is dead we force the other to confirm or deny for saudade for sure.

This should all be obvious anyway but it's irrelevant. More and more interactions between FL and TLK are just subtly off. They sound like good strategies if you skim, but as soon as you actually read them they're so obviously wrong.

And I don't think it's a difference of opinion, it's a difference of alignment.

I could inderstand people not agreeing with me if I were saying controversial stuff, but I'm not. I've pretty much been resorting to tried-and-tested-invented-by-better-minds-than-mine mafia 101 knowledge and it has already worked twice.

There's no need to make this game more complicated than it is. Especially when we've lynched 2 scum already and scum have to kill like what .. 5? days in a row just to get rid of all the

claimed

PRs, not to mention any who may have remained quiet.

[NerfedBuJ]

Let's summarize for the lazy:

As far as I can tell FL townreads every player who claimed a PR. (Or at the very least he doesn't want them lynched).

He thinks he and tlk are so obvtown that lynching tlk right now to confirm both of them is so anti-town that people pushing tlk and tlk's counterwagons MUST be scum.

So really tell me the truth everyone.. who's scummier..

Me or the person who is so hesitant to lynch 1 of FIVE PRs he townreads even though it would confirm his own alignment to everyone?

[NerfedBuJ]

I'll he honest, I scumread FL so strongly that even if tlk flips town gunsmith I'll have my doubts on FL being town.

But even I will be forced to townread FL at that point.
Hence why I've switched to voting and pushing tlk instead of flavor.

But noo tlk lynch is wrong and anti-town lol

Pedit - definitely not.. I see absolutely no reason why vorkuta and enigma would not condemn and push saudade aggressively if saudade were not mason with them

[NerfedBuJ]

But you should be lynched anyway so it'a a moot point.

[NerfedBuJ]

Yeah I dunno the exact number I just remember it's around that

[NerfedBuJ]

Fruit vendor is the one I forgot.. you named the ones I was vaguely thinking about

[NerfedBuJ]

So how come I’m being singled out when in reality the majority of players are town reading just as many of the PR’s if not more, than i am.

1. Your friend TLK named the PRs in question.

2. The majority of players aren't opposing TLK's lynch today.

3. The majority of players haven't been cleared by TLK.

Not a misrep, not singling you out, not tunnelling.

[NerfedBuJ]

Let's ignore all that.. I'll give you another juicy case against you you can try to defend yourself from.

You have pushed the towniest 2 living players in the game (saudade and I). The fact that you can see us as town doesn't change that fact.

You've even now started shading the 3rd towniest living player in the game, creature. Not shading ceature when he was scummy, sheepy, and lurky. But shading creature now when he started defending me.

The case against you really just writes itself.
And the truth is even if you flip town next game you pull something like this off I'll still push you.
Because I do not believe in "too scummy to be scum". I don't believe in "he's too good at scum to do this" (which is basically the same as point number 1, but slightly different). I don't believe in complicated gambitting that creates unnecessary conflict and maybe tricks scum 2% of the time.

I see something scummy, I assume it comes from scum. I don't make excuses for it.

And yes maybe once a month I'll mislynch someone like Vedith or Elsa. But 9/10 times I'll catch scum.

Despite this you can ask A50 how many times I've mislynched him as town. I may have forgotten one or two but as far as I recall it's 0 times. Because gambitting is not inherently scummy, it just has to make sense and have more reward than risk. It has to be complemented by pro-town arguments and logical reads.

[NerfedBuJ]

When I made you 3rd towniest

[NerfedBuJ]

Real answer is when you started making a lot of sense and correctly reading the gamestate

[NerfedBuJ]

And posting a lot more real-time.
Let's face it activity is a huge factor in sorting you

[NerfedBuJ]

Because you can prove this:

You can make as many cases against me as you want.

You’re just wrong. simple as that.

By flipping tlk.

[NerfedBuJ]

TLK if town remains this lethargic/passive and doesn't lynch you...

Check SS

[NerfedBuJ]

Ofrhz

But I'm not going to push there I still prefer TLK.

The thing is the opportunity cost of a lost check will always be there.. delaying lynching all the PRs stops giving us any benefit when we start approaching lylo.

Just because we have a comfortable advantage right now doesn't mean we should take it for granted

[NerfedBuJ]

Who claimed receiving a fruit? I can't remember

[NerfedBuJ]

[NerfedBuJ]

Let me guess .. the fruit vendor is 'even-night' ?

It's hard not to sound sarcastic in text, but truly, this is a fun game.

[NerfedBuJ]

now lynching you confirms Flavor's role and that a fruit vendor is in play!

I know right, we're so damn lucky this game!

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: ofrhz

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: Vote TLK

Do it then

[NerfedBuJ]

So we make FL buss every singly buddy then we lynch him.

[NerfedBuJ]

You guys talk way too much for a solved game.

I believe is it flavor leaf 1200%.
Then LUV 98%.

[NerfedBuJ]

But I need to read all of this day

[NerfedBuJ]

seeing as this is a normal

Also papa leaf is town- scum papa leaf does not lose this badly unless he's going for a solo victory.... does he?

This is literally why scum win any game.

Towns should have 100% win in every setup. We make excuses for scum and they end up living.

[NerfedBuJ]

I'm catching up
It won't happen faster if you threaten to hammer

[NerfedBuJ]

Oh roster is in this.. is he one of our PR claims?

[NerfedBuJ]

Oh hey I thought he was your mason buddy what happened?
Also no:

Also papa leaf is town- scum papa leaf does not lose this badly unless he's going for a solo victory.... does he?

Can you guys vote like Buj or BEF or Creature or people who actually HAVE scum equity?

Why do I have scum equity?

[NerfedBuJ]

I rarely joke in the game vork..

Also why are you trusting scum!TLK with the fruit vendor thing? Could have been a lie

[NerfedBuJ]

You are still eating rope today FL.
If you are town know that your eagerness to be "Town Mvp" ego bullshit has caused this, and get better.

No? That gives me a mislynch reset. I already stated that.

This is the perfect game for me to mislynch reset because it’ll benefit my play because I’ll get to bring this game up over and over about the last time I was mislynched.

Proves I’ll be town in further games.

"I was town in one game so I'm town this game"

Why learn statistics and probability at school people.. FL can teach you right here.

[NerfedBuJ]

FTR if saudade is not confirmed by both masons today then he becomes the lynch if FL flips town.

Read both "If's" in that sentence carefully.

[NerfedBuJ]

Ok I’m town loud babysitter

N1 I babysat Elsa
N2 I babysat Saudade
N3 I babysat FL

If only this was loyal or weak, am I right?

[NerfedBuJ]

Oh and I'm VT

I already claimed last day phase.
Next claim

[NerfedBuJ]

So Flavor Leaf is town and so is Baezu

I need this explained?

I mean I more or less believe baezu is town but I don't get how the claim clears either of them.

[NerfedBuJ]

Come on- does scum!FL fucking lose 3 teammates in 3 days, all of which he more or less bussed pretty damn hard?

aha.. see this is the point in which are brains manipulate our memories to fit the narrative.

FL didn't buss any of them.

He claims he did by specifically not doing it which is supposed to be his way of doing.
Even if that is the case we are not mind readers so we don't know that he did.

[NerfedBuJ]

You cleared me

Papa leaf- are you trying to solo this game for the bragging rights and did you no-kill gambit for the clear today?

And one more thing.

Skitter literally won a scummie for winning a game as scum who bussed all her partners early and deepwolfed to endgame on the towncred (and her incredible posting).

Do you think the person you are holding in near god-like regard is not at least capable of that if not capable of more?

If anything you should be pushing him harder than I am since you have more respect for his skill.

[NerfedBuJ]

*urge to quote rising*
Anyway this VCA without context supports LUV > BEF > S_S, but I really like buj as scum....

Don't remove ofrhz abd FL from the list

[NerfedBuJ]

BUJ absolutely looks bad.
Vert stands out in a bad way -> but its not really strong without more evidence.
Bae as well didnt get any breaks from it.

Flavor doesnt make it to endgame. period. He should be lynched in any lylo.
S_S stands out in how much he

doesnt

stand out.
I feel okay about orfhz from this, but I could make a weak case.

And what guarantee do you have that anyone that isn't me or saudade would lynch FL in lylo?

[NerfedBuJ]

BUJ absolutely looks bad.
Vert stands out in a bad way -> but its not really strong without more evidence.
Bae as well didnt get any breaks from it.

Flavor doesnt make it to endgame. period. He should be lynched in any lylo.
S_S stands out in how much he

doesnt

stand out.
I feel okay about orfhz from this, but I could make a weak case.

Also lylo might not be clear.. it could come sooner than 3p if we have 3rd parties

[NerfedBuJ]

There's nothing to full claim- mason with enigma/pisskop
and saudade has a 'masonry'

So not mason with saudade?

Pisskop confirm please.

If FL flips town we lynch saudade if this is true.

[NerfedBuJ]

If you are town this game you've been sabotaging your townplay on purpose for future scumgames which is disgusting

+1

[NerfedBuJ]

you've been sabotaging

+1

Gtfo. I’ve had a fantastic game here, and I’ve claimed MUCH more times as town to this.

Every single time I do, I catch multiple scum.

Claimed a total of 6 different times once, that time I even made hard hard cases in a non troll manner and caught 3 scum because of UnaBombah traitor crumbs. Hilarious time.

Your claims are not the only thing anti-town about your play.

And you do that as scum which isn't a towntell at all.

You love claiming. It's a personality flaw not AI.

[NerfedBuJ]

you guys, roster, and Creature who haven’t

zzzzzzz

S_S and Buj didn't check in

And you trying to squeeze out our claims IN ADDITION TO other people's night action claims just before hand is really grinding my gears.

Also I don't fake claim and you know that- I'm mason, as was hardclaimed by enigma waaaay back in D1.

Just mason? That’s what I’m trying to do.

You guys are just being hypocrites if you think I’m the one slowing down mass claim because I’m actively fucking tired of it. Just fucking claim everything.

It’s day 4.

I’m all for fucking around in claims, but when it’s time, it’s fucking time.

Anyone who votes me today automatically never gets to use any of these shitty excuses ever again against me. Ever.

You will get super aggro’d the likes I’ve only given a few people on site, 40 pages worth.

I fully agree with the vorkuta bashing.

Vorkuta you not being fully transparent is annoying and claim order matters very little when town is this far ahead and has at least 2 conf town.

[NerfedBuJ]

I am 100% mason

Serious HARD CLAIM, no takebakseys, no misinterpretation, no nothing.

Then tell us why you clear saudade please don't make us work more. Let's waste energy on games that require it not a solved one

[NerfedBuJ]

And that post is actually a hardcore Freudian slip, because you agreeing with that post implies you think I am town.

VOTE: Nerfed

I love it when you jerk yourself off at how great you are and yet join a town wagon for the 4th day in a row.

[NerfedBuJ]

seeing as this is a normal

Also papa leaf is town- scum papa leaf does not lose this badly unless he's going for a solo victory.... does he?

This is literally why scum win any game.

Towns should have 100% win in every setup. We make excuses for scum and they end up living.

idk if you've read but Leaf is mechanically clear

I still don't understand this.

What if scum no killed, or we have 3rd party or baezu is scum.

Like really why would any scum shoot town!FL here?

[NerfedBuJ]

Why isn't ofrhz on the table?

[NerfedBuJ]

What scum No Kills in this position?

Lurky scum or not sure what to do scum or super confident scum.

Ofrhz/LUV, roster, or FL

For each of those categories

Also did saudade confirm baezu when he targetted him? I didn't see that in any post

[NerfedBuJ]

Why isn't ofrhz on the table?

I’m pissed rn...

That’s literally who I’ve been pushing.

Yeah but you push everyone and defend everyone all at the same time

[NerfedBuJ]

I am 100% mason

Serious HARD CLAIM, no takebakseys, no misinterpretation, no nothing.

Then tell us why you clear saudade please don't make us work more. Let's waste energy on games that require it not a solved one

I dont get it
do you think im scum mate?

No I don't but I don't let someone who posts 'I am mason' 300 times when he's not mason live while I'm alive.

So your partners need to confirm you please just for human decency and compassion

[NerfedBuJ]

And that post is actually a hardcore Freudian slip, because you agreeing with that post implies you think I am town.

VOTE: Nerfed

I love it when you jerk yourself off at how great you are and yet join a town wagon for the 4th day in a row.

That’s literally a town tell.

I flip flop. It’s what I do. It’s what I like to do. I vote people who I know are town for the reactions.

Sometimes me townreading someone actually is me thinking they are scum.

I always townread flubbernugget when he’s scum.

I made a game winning action on scumBins who was probably gonna slide by because I was dead null on Flubber which meant I thought he was actually hard town read.

Sorry if I’m too next level for ya.

The game of mafia doesn't need to be overly complicated or misleading.

If you do play town this way feel free to continue but you will get scumread for it every time whether it's by me ir someone else.

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj honey if its not LUV its gonna be you in the end so I suggest you move those fingers of yours and write down the vote and the /vote and LUV's name inbetween

Luv doesn't make it to endgame.

You (if not confirmed right now by your partners) and FL can.

The point of lynching is to find all scum before endgame so town wins.
Not to find scum 1 at a time.

3 scum lynches in a row and one deepwolf is way worse than a bunch of mislynches and then all scum are lynched.

[NerfedBuJ]

I get reaction testing I do.
I just don't see that what you did this game was very helpful to townies.

I don't know about anybody else but I've voted the scum for reasons that didn't come from anything you posted, and you've made me scumread you all game.

Like if you weren't making it harder for town to lynch scum this game then at the very least you were a huge distraction.

And so to me that can never equal good town play. It's closer to playing against town's win condition.

Like I don't subscribe to the theory that we should treat people who are townreading and defending someone as people who are scumreading someone.

I look at how people read other people to help me determine those other people's alignments, and their own alignments when the other people flip.

Your posts and actions make much more sense as deepwolfing busser than town who was scumreading the 3 scums.

[NerfedBuJ]

The biggest reason for suspecting TLK was literally because he defended you for example.

And it's amazing to me that I was right to ignore his claim, because I thought his flipping red would prove to people that you're scum but it never works that way does it.. people continue to believe what they want to believe.

[NerfedBuJ]

Saudade I don't want to vote anybody who claimed an action at the moment.

I'm lynching FL.
If that doesn't happen and we have less than 36 hours to deadline I'm lynching ofrhz or roster.

Also because funnily enough they make more sense as scum than the poeple who claimed PR.

But of the claims yes LUV is least believable.

But I want to maximize our ability to destroy scum. I'm a dick like that.
On the off chance that LUV is PR we can wait longer.

[NerfedBuJ]

Baezu let me get this straight you thought Elsa was town who fake claimed vig?

[NerfedBuJ]

How? Every lynch I brought up wanting and the scum pairing turned out to be true.

Look at how TLK interacted with my slot.

I’m never a deepeolfing busser, though. I have gone on record of explaining why I feel that’s poor scum play.

And people know the type of player I am, and I have 600+ posts, if people didn’t they can easily learn.

People also obviously think highly of my ability, and I’ve had haters for years. This ain’t new. But time and time again, I show I bring results. There’s a reason I am night killed early so often on site.

Look where they’re at now, and I’m still running the gauntlet, catching scum as town and faking townie as scum.

Looking at how people read me is actually a fantastic way to get reads.

Everytime we've had a case on scum or a wagon on scum you've been - directly or indirectly - advocating for a counterwagon. Sometimes flip flopping between them and sometimes just not voting the scum wagon until hammer or L-1.

Maybe I'll mislynch you 4 games in a row before I learn how to read you, I accept that as a possibility, but for now occam's razor prevails.

[NerfedBuJ]

Baezu let me get this straight you thought Elsa was town who fake claimed vig?

That’s entirely believable. Elsa jay fake claims more than I do.

And as babysitter that was a perfect shot.

If Elsa was actually a vigilante, they’d have been a potential nk target.

Had Baezu been shot, they then kill Elsa Jay.

They would have taken down themselves and their townread though if elsa was telling the truth??

[NerfedBuJ]

Baezu doesn't hammer there as scum and I'm 2/2 for catching scum!baezu.

I don't think he's scum I just don't get that play

[NerfedBuJ]

Disagree.

When did I ever push against TLK scum?

All I was saying was I wanted his result, which I still wished we’d have gotten because I know him in real life and can read his action really well.

You even stated that I wasn’t saying he wasn’t scum.

I literally faked 2 guiltiest on TLK.

Before his claim you kinda stated some suspicion but not pushed there and from what I recall your posts townreading him were much more confident sounding.

Then you wanted him to live despite his flip informing us of our allignment.


That's just 1 wagon.


With A50 you were talking a lot about how he could be scum and how people were defending or whatever fancy new term they were using but the actual vote on him you placed early at first.. then jusy pushed me and others and didn't put your vote back on despite it being a counterwagon to vorkuta.


Elsa I don't even remember you calling her scum and you practically defended her hard at first, and you were pushing saudade of all people, as a partner of TLK and A50, and only came in to hammer in the end.

[NerfedBuJ]

There’s absolutely no other possibility for that missing night kill.

Scum never no kill there. They just don’t. They have too much ground to make up, and a set of claimed masons out there.

That means, the masons weren’t on the right track.

You mean the masons that townread you and scumread me?

[NerfedBuJ]

This is a silly tell but I think if you were being honest you'd be more proud of yourself as scum here than town.

So I don't even buy the town!pride. This is probably scum pride

[NerfedBuJ]

Boon, master of the MASQUERADE

[NerfedBuJ]

I could not come up with a boon pun for that word I appreciate someone else trying

[NerfedBuJ]

I’m a voyeur. Slow your roll.

This is a fake claim.

If there are 5 scum yes, but I don't think he is last scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

Let me correct that:
If there are 5 scum one of BEF/LUV is fake claiming.
If there are 4 scum I don't think either of them are scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

I know that sounds weird but it isn't about setup spec. It's about when last scum would feel compelled to lie and when they wouldn't.

[NerfedBuJ]

Maybe

[NerfedBuJ]

Luv had been giving up a long time ago if that's the case that just seems weird to me.
Most of his defence posts are "I'm town guys lol".

[NerfedBuJ]

Maybe I'm overcomplicating things and LUV's caught scum I just don't feel it in my gut

And we can just string him along and make him make up more lies just for fun

[NerfedBuJ]

Maybe because ofrhz is being fucking protected by the masons.

Yeah the masons are being a bunch of T words.
But I've already had a fight with masons over their terrible play in another game so I'm gonna let this go.

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj I’m this game we (you) have lynched 3 scum in a row.

I don’t think the masons are being bad. They’re not Axe and Nom.

This game is 1000 times better and the masons are 500 times better


I just don't like the ambiguity around Saudade and I don't like their protection of ofrhz

[NerfedBuJ]

About time I made it clear for anyone not reading

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[NerfedBuJ]

Switching to ofrhz when the deadline hits 36-48 hours

[NerfedBuJ]

12 alive. Worst case 10:2
8:2 - 1 mislynch
6:2 - 2 mislynches
4:2 Mylo - 3 mislynches

Or

11:1
9:1
7:1
5:1
3:1 mylo - 4 mislynches

That's not enough mislynches to lynch everyone we want.

We have FL and LUV as potentials.
At least 3 people are in the scum pool because of A50 wagon, 4 if you count me. 5 if saudade is not publicly confirmed by our masons.

That's too many to just kill them 1 by 1.

[NerfedBuJ]

Again can we please just have people confirm shit and stop hiding stuff for the lolz?

Saudade did baezu visit you night 2?
Fork/vork is saudade a mason?
Fork/vork why do you protect ofrhz?

[NerfedBuJ]

NerfedBuJ - even with Boonie Fever, he managed to vote elsewhere and look elsewhere. Solid play from getting outside of tunnel vision.

Ehh I don't think I've ever had blinding tunnel vision. Like sure nothing would have changed my mind about you this game but it doesn't mean I can't look at, case, and vote other players.

Also I like to be right, and I'm right quite a lot. Losing to someone I was scumreading all game would have been far far worse than mislynching once.

I will say that I think it isn't paranoia because of who you are though. I've read people like skitter and RC correctly more than incorrectly in the past. I just interpret things with the simplest most logical way from my pov and heavily rely on gut. Like I said in day 1 you play like a 4+ headed hydra despite being a single player. You create internal dissonance with your posts and actions. I can't treat you as null forever I have to lean one way or another and push to see what happens.



Haha so saudade was a mason in a way with the loyal modifier. But pleeeeeease people don't confirm masons who aren't masons.

I'm not saying saudade didn't town it up but it's just so wrong to do so.

Also kudos to saudade for playing well alongside being an asshole. Huge step up from just pissing people off for 2 days then repping out. Don't lie and say you haven't done that before.

Like he even had good reads instead of insulting the reads of people who nailed the scum team correctly, which has happened.

[NerfedBuJ]

Okay so my 2 cents on setup.

So up to now I have played a lot of games with masons on MS.

I fully believe they're a really really powerful town role. Y'all need to stop underestimating it in setup design.

My opinion is:
2 masons = 1 town PR and needs 1 scum PR to balance them alone.
3 masons = 3 (yes 3) town PR and needs 1.5 scum PRs to balance them alone.

More than 3 in a game this size is basically auto win for town.

Don't show me games where towns with masons lost. They played terribly for sure.

[NerfedBuJ]

You see how i didnt confirm him, didnt put any claims down for him, asked you not to interject into his claim, and still kept up my TR on the slot?

Tbh this would look kinda sketchy to me in the early game.

Like I would not have any explanation for why a truthful mason would not push a guy fake claiming mason.

And I'd have questions, and eventually either one of us gets lynched or you out him anyway.

So just out him in that case.

[NerfedBuJ]

Thank you for modding sky.

There were annoying moments but overall it was a very fun game and I'm glad I decided to join.