Mini 612 Akatsuki: The End

[Claus]

I think I got all the extra rules down.

Stardard Mafia +
> Someone is assigned an DayKill at the beginning of the day +
> At every DayKill assignment (round), everyone can PM the mod their choice of killsteal +
> Some players have a number of KillDefends (alerts) that they can reassign every "round"

Question: If multiple people KillSteal the killer, who gets to keep the kill?

I'm ready for the game too.

[Claus]

Dice roll voting is for the weak. The akatsuki has no need for the weak.

Vote MoS

[Claus]

Has your mom never told you that setup guessing D1 is bad?

unvote; ninja vote: battousai

[Claus]

@Claus: could you explain why guessing the setup day 1 is bad? I've been thinking about it and I can't seem to figure it out.

Hey!

Sorry for not being around. Weekend and stuff (points at profile).

Setup discussion is bad because it detracts from scumhunting. Scum can discuss the setup just as well as town, without leaving out the necessary clues we need to hunt them down.

A certain ammount of setup discussion, of course, is necessary - but speculation about the number and groups of scum like batt did on page 2 at this stage of the game is empty discussion.

I think there is a thread at MD right now that talks about it.

I'll be back to play later.

[Claus]

Okay, sorry about my downtime. I'll be reading the thread asap and possibly posting something later tonight.

[Claus]

Hey, thanks for waiting for me, Albert and Players - and thanks the scum for dropping such nice tells in this game.

Here are the highlights:

Farside - Asked people to reveal their alerts (63). Comes with some silly logic of "Scum would not alert their own partner". Of course not. Scum would never lie about anything, would they? I support the "fishing for defenses" theory.

When she comes under fire, she begins a general lurker witchhunt. Trying to look for an easy way out instead of actually pointing her finger at someone? Me no like.

Battousai - I still think that his setup guessing on post 51 (and a few posts before) was strange.

But he has another hair raising post on (109):

I think we should at least wait till the end of the second meeting where there is more information.

What kind of information are you looking for, sherlock? Scum kills? Of course, this post comes just as Farside's wagon was growing to lynchable/viggable proportions - so I smell a scum pairing here.

Finally, here is someone else who was not mentioned yet, but has pinged my scumdar:

- ashmite 84:

Has posted NOTHING but 3 vote counts. No accusations, no defenses, no opinions. No nothing. I thought this guy was a co-mod until I re-read the playerlist today. Way to drop out of the radar.

So without further ado, here is the naughty list for this year:

FOS: Farside, Battousai, Ashmite

===

Votes for Farside:
farside22 - 3 Mastermind of Sin, Megatron, L

Assassination requests:
farside - 3 Sleepy Panda, megatron, DGB

Ass: Farside.

That's 7.

ATTACK: Farside

Now we don't have to worry about scum stealing the town's kill.

Mod:

, even if the kill fails, the clock is reset, right?

Batt, your scumbuddy is down (if no one stole my kill, that is), you're next

[Claus]

Well, one more reason for this kill better not fail then

[Claus]

Replying to recent posts.

====

You have allegedly random-voted farside22 twice

I think that the DGB votes on farside were not random. Why are you saying that?

Claus, I'm wondering what your reaction is to this?

I'm happy. I hope this will encourage townies all over the world to stop trying to out think themselves by laying ineffective traps that only make them look scummy. It ALWAYS backfires.

Also, I'm less suspicious of Battousai, since one of my reasons to be suspicious of him was a perceived indirect defense of farside. Not enough to drop him from my FoS, but enough to drop him below ashimite.

not saying much. He did say another post that wasn't a vote count in 97.

And what did he say on 97? Not much. He didn't say anything about any player in the game, for sure.


====

Damn.... so what now? Do we go after Bat or Claus? Claus I think your reasoning was just good enough to buy you a reprieve. Only just though.

What about your reasoning? Oh, you had none at all.

Ashmite here points his fingers both to the player who was under scrutinity before the lynch (Battousai), and the player who hammered the lynch (Claus). That's a great way to surf on what the town was saying without saying anything yourself.

Extra points for noticing that he suggests the town to go after those two, without accusing them directly.

Hey guys, what's going on in he- ATTACK: DRIPPING GOOFBALL!

And he has the gall to point his finger at me! Oh, the humanity!

===

What about me and my scum partner, Farside, Claus?

Like I said, the fact that Farside was not actually scum takes away one of the things that led me to believe you are. Now I'm more worried about Ashmite.

Every post before mine, except pregame discussion, was people random voting. I wanted to get out of it so I came up with discussing how many groups there are in the game with 12 people.

Scumhunting is based on analyzing the relationship between players.

Random Voting > Setup discussion. Random voting establishes relationships between players. Setup discussion does not.

But specially, Batt, the thing is most suspicious about your setup discussion is how you did it. You suggested that there were two sub-groups, and when you were asked how you knew this, you took the easy way out, saying:

I can't, as it's part of the mod pm.... I'm in the majority (I think), that's all I can say (I think).

===

unvote. Vote: Ashmite

For trying to steal Albert's job D1, instead of discussing the game and players like the rest of us. For also trying the easy way out right after the first lynch.

Killing DGB out of the blue is the icing in the cake. Are you in the "Kill DGB on sight" team, or do you actually have a reason for that?

===

I'll analyse other players after I clear my backlog (see sig)

[Claus]

DGB's signal to noise ratio was quite high, even if her post count was low. Your reasons are not good.

Happy with my vote.

Mod

, will you do vote counts, or is it the responsability of the players?

[Claus]

ATTACK: Ashmite

I guess I'll be the one doing vote counts from now on.

[Claus]

Ashmite killing DGB without any reasoning or questioning was a mistake he has paid dearly for.

Now let's go back to do this the right way, with votes and ass: votes.

[Claus]

Bar the myslinch, of course it was.

If we have a public policy of immediately revenge-killing anyone who does not obey the "majority is needed for kill" rule, players will cooperate to vote. Simple game theory. This should be the standard policy for any "lots of daykills" kind of game.

[Claus]

Hey folks.

Well, technically, he did give reasoning in 149, but yeah, it was a pretty bad move.

Did you read his reasoning? "I stole the kill from DGB. I wanted to use it before some stole it from me. I thought DGB was going to attack me".

That is not a "reasoning".

Even if you were going to assassinate him, though, we could have waited until closer to the deadline to get more discussion in.

The thing that bothers me is, I'm not sure that scum would drop a blatant daykill like Ashamite did

You guys are secondguessing yourselfs because Ashmite's flipped town.

But think of it this way - before he died, we didn't know his alignment. What we saw is that he was attacking Me and Battousai, and suddenly he killed DGB - a player who has never been suspected. How it looked like to me is that he was feeling the pressure and wanted to take a chance to kill a good townie before the lynch came crashing down his head.

If we stopped to discuss if he was scum or not, with all the back and forth, what would have prevented him from getting lucky again with his kill steal and kill a second townie while we discussed what to do with him?

No, by killing Ashmite IMMEDIATELY, we ended this nonsense.

Now how about we stop the "Oh my god, I will vote Claus because he killed someone who could not be trusted with a daykill", and go back to scumhunting for a change?

(And I'll take my own remedy and do a brief player by player analysis after the vote count)

[Claus]

Vote Count:

Claus 1 - Battousai

Assassination Count:

Claus 2 - SleepyPanda, Andersonw

Not Voting:

L, GhostWriter, MafiaSSK, Mastermind of Sin, Claus, Megatron

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Claus]

Player Analysis:

Summary:
I want people who are voting me now ask themselves: Did I actually do anything scummy, or are you voting me just because ashmite flipped town? If ashmite was alive and unflipped now, wouldn't you all be claiming for his blood at this moment?

Suspicion list:

Battousai - not commenting at all on other players.
L - voting both Farside and DGB during the Farside x DGB bandwagon. After farside flips town, turns around and adds: "As andersonw said, farside was still explaining herself. I wouldn't have felt as much suspicion".

While I suspect Battousai, specially because of my past experience with him, I must say that L double vote on the wagoner and wagonee was very opportunistic.

Vote: L,
FoS: Battousai

Lurkerlist

GW, SSK, MOS - Mod, prod these guys, please, they're a third of the game!

Others

I'm neutral towards Sleepy Panda - for going after both me and Batt at the same time D3 - why not discuss other people as well?

I'm getting town vibes from Andersonw and Megatron



====

Andersonw:

-> disagree's with Farside's plan (posts 2 and 3)
-> When she is being bandwagoned, thinks that she is not scummy (her plan is just bad logic), but nothing will change in 2 days (post 5)
-> votes to assassinate me, because I "didn't wait for the deadline". Agrees that "me or battousai" are most suspicious.

Question:
1) Anderson, you agree with me that Ashmite's had no real reason to kill DGB. He was the one who broke the rule. Do you really think I'm suspicious for this, or are you voting me because you disagree with my playstyle?

2) What do you think of other players besides me and battousai?

Battousai

-> Mostly discusses the setup, or defends himself against people accusing him of discussing the setup
-> Votes me D3. Other than this, no opinion on other players.

So here is the thing, Battousai - this is what you have to say about your
habit of setup discussing:

Ok, distracting is bad, yes, but you also have to take into account what the person was distracting the town from...

Except you are not distracting the town from anything - you are simply not giving ANY input into the game.

You know what bothers me? The last game we played together you were scum, and you managed to get by exactly by laying low and not really taking a position towards other players. Once bitten twice shy.

For example, you talked a lot during the first meeting, but gave no opinion at all for or against the bandwagon. It is a bit late for that, but what do you think of the other players that voted/defended farside D1?

GhostWriter:

-> did not random vote, but OMGUS'ed vote L
-> Asked Batt what group he was in.
-> Opposed the farside lynch.

Lurkish, but seems ok. Needs to post more.

L

-> Votes GW for not random voting
-> Agrees that setup discussion is bad
-> During the Farside wagon, accuses both DBG (who started and pushed the wagon) and Farside. Votes DBG and asks to ass Farside.
-> Then, after farside dies, he asks my reaction, and goes on to say that "as andersonw said, farside was still explaining herself". Wait wait, weren't you voting for her?

Also, what do you think of other players, like Panda, Megatron, SSK, etc?

SSK

-> Has 7 posts, and besides the random voting and chiding me for my Ashmite kill, has said nothing at all. Even admitted that his playstyle is "lurking" and has "a secret strategy". Needs. To. Post.

After I answered your question about Ashmite, do you still think I'm in the wrong for that? Which players do you think are suspicious?

MOS

Another lurker. Argued that the town should sit on the kill which
probably made ABR change the rules.

Megatron

-> Votes Farside for her plan.
-> Pushed her wagon (rightly, I think)
-> Currently suspects me/battousai/SSK

Megatron, my questions/comments for you were in the last post. The Ashmite WIFOM you mentioned only exists because now we know he is town. Before that, he was someone under growing pressure (me, L) who killed someone else he didn't even suspect.

Sleepy Panda

- During D1, tries to move the discussion away from the setup discussion and towards assassination discussion.
- Don't like Farside's plan, but don't attack it right away.
- After discussing the plan a lot, eventually votes Farside when she
starts the "OMGUS" defense.
- Votes me, says that Battousai is pretty scummy, and probably my partner.

-> Why do you think I'm more likely to be scum than Batt?
-> You said lurkers exists in all games. What do you think of the current
lurkers in our game? Any opinion about them?

[Claus]

Hey,

MOS:

What slip? (172) I didn't understand.

Battousai:

That's what I got from your last post because the Ash action and the Claus action seemed pretty interlocked to me.

Of course are interlocked (I killed him because he killed DGB), but they are hardly the same.
-- Ashmite killed a pro-townish player out of nowhere, with a weak reason, who he never had mentioned before.
-- I killed a scummy lurker who would not commit to a position in the game,
who had just killed someone by himself, and whose lynch I had been pushing for a while.

Saying that the two kills are the same is extremely disingenuous.

Also, I believe this is STILL the first meeting.

I didn't think Farside was lynch worthy yet, thus why I prefered the wait till meeting 2 to have extra information.

Get something into your head - This IS already D3 - or D2 if you don't want to count my vigging of Ashmite as a day. Farside wagon grew fully and had different people attacking it, defending it and ignoring it.

MoS's vote to ass farside seemed opportunistic to me. (...) Everyone else's vote/ass did not seem opportunistic at all.

Really? I thought that

I

was "the scum" to you a little while ago. Now my vote/ass to farside is not oportunistic at all. It seems to me that you are shaping the reality around you to fit your suspicions.

Ass: Battousai

Sleepy panda

I think at this point, Ashmite became an extremely easy target. The scum could've just as easily hopped onto his bandwagon.

You have answered your own question.

Here is the "information" we would have gotten from a Ashmite wagon:
Player 1> OMG! He killed DGB! You bastard! Vote: Ashmite.
Scum 1> I thought we had decided to use our kills carefully? Vote: Ashmite
Lurker 1> That was the poorest reason I ever heard to kill anyone: Vote Ashmite
Scum 2> But wait, isn't this bandwagon going a bit too fast?
Player 1> Of course not, do you want to set a bad precedent?
Ashmite> Vote Count.
Scum 2> You're right. Vote: Ashmite.
Lurker 2> Of course I have been paying attention to the game! Ashmit is obvscum: Hammer!

Here is the thing Panda: voting people who do Anti-town things is a pro-town act. No one would be seriously questioned for voting Ashmite, and the WIFOM you suggested only exists because he has already been cardflipped.

On the other hand, watching who is attacking/defending my vig, how strongly, and for what reasons is giving out much more information than the easy Ash lynch would ever give. Do you disagree with this?

L

Hmm. I can see the "I wanted to unvote farside but she died before" thing as a 50/50 right now. But what bothers me is that you were ass:far and voting:DGB at the _same time_.

I mean, farside and DGB were attacking each other - didn't you think it strange to bet on both sides of a fight?

everyone:

As far as votes and assassination goes, should we count people
who vote and assasinate on the same person as two votes?
(See battousai's votes on MoS).

==================

Vote Count:

(votes in bold, assassinations in normal font)

Battousai : 1

+ 2 (

MOS

, Megatron, Claus)

MOS : 1

+ 1 (

Battousai

, Battousa)

Claus : 0

+ 2 (SleepyPanda, Andersonw)

L : 1

+ 0 (

Claus

)

Not Voting/assassinating:

L, GhostWriter, MafiaSSK,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.[/quote]

[Claus]

It's WIFOM of whether or not scum would vig kill someone with no support. But to me at least, it's more scummy than town when they vig kill someone for vig killing someone with no support.

...

So now you're saying that Ash's actions were possibly pro-town and I am scummy for killing him?

This makes no sense at all.

Also, I'm naturally overdefensive. If you attack me on asinine reasons then I will get defensive.

This is no excuse for OMGUS voting and refusing to comment on other players.

[Claus]

Wait...

It's WIFOM of whether or not scum would vig kill someone with no support. But to me at least, it's more scummy than town when they vig kill someone for vig killing someone with no support.

You're right.

ATTACK: Sleeping Panda

Now that I have attacked someone without reason, I'm pro-town!

As for reasons, I have a report that tells me that Sleepy Panda was harbouring Weapons of Mass Destruction in his basement - in contravention of many United Ninjas directive.

(I guessed three times right in my three attempts to steal the kill - after this game, I'm going to vegas!)

[Claus]

Just tell us where those WMD's are and nothing will happen to you.

[Claus]

Heh, That's a low punch. So you're trying to get rid of me any way you can, huh?

Having ABR modkill me would be a great way to kill a townie without dirtying your hands, no? That explains why you were using of WIFOM to get me lynched. I'm happy that I've finally managed to vig scum v(^_^)v.

[Claus]

It's not my fault for someone who didn't bother reading the rules. Even if I didn't mention it, I don't see why ABR wouldn't modkill you anyways since they're HIS rules.

Lol. You really want me dead, don't you? I can feel your anger:

"Why me? I was doing everything right! No one suspected I was scum! How could that guy I was almost getting the town to mislynch figured out my trickery?"

The way you grasp at the tiniest of hopes of getting ME killed instead of you shows me your true colors. We bagged scum this time! Hooray!

Now, really. Unless you have blocked me, or someone stole my kill, you're dead chump. I know the rules, and I was not lying when I attacked you. In fact, I have a great in-game reason for attacking you when I did.

If you hadn't killed Ashmite, we would've had a week of more discussion. How is discussion going to hurt town?

That's a strawman if I even seen one. There is discussion, and there is chin wagging.

We could for one week discuss how Ash was rash, and that wouldn't have helped the town, because everyone would agree! However, when we sit down to debate something REALLY divisive ("Was Claus right or wrong about killing Ash?") - THAT is where people show their true colours. Like you just did by asking the mod to modkill me.

[Claus]

So Claus, you had some info on SleepyPanda similar to a cop getting innocent/guilty?

Well, the cat is out of the bag know, so I might as well claim.

I'm Zetsu, the Akatsuki Spy - a neutral.

My win condition is that I have to eliminate 3 Akatsuki by my own hands (not lynching) before dying. The flavor is that I'm a loner and a cannibal - I'm using the confusion caused by the struggle between loyalists and rebels to fullfill my own agenda. If I can kill that number of ninjas, I'll improve my "meld with objects" skill, which mean that when I die, I just get away and leave the game.

So, I guess I won. You can vig/lynch me now if that will give you a sense of fulfillment,

Also, this is why I was pushing for the "vig, not lynch" policy - I wanted to be the executioner. Because if you think about it, Battousai is right, there is no real reason not to lynch - people can rearrange their blocks after every lynch, and I bet the town's power roles also get to go after lynchings.

Finally, I actually do think Sleepy is a rebel - while his "modkill him!" pleas confirm it to me, the way that he pushed after my death using wifom, and the way he tried to tie me and battousai together just smells of opportunism. While I have my own win condition, I think I owed it to the town to try and kill a scum with my last killing after having hit townies by mistake two times in a row. The "report" was just a joke - It's a game folks! .

Go Town/Rebels! *goes to grab some popcorn*:-D

[Claus]

Man, you're dead already. Stop pretending.

[Claus]

*burp* Sorry town

And no, I don't think we are at lylo, because I don't contribute to either the rebels or the loyalists win condition. If you don't kill a rebel now, it will be Lylo, though.


*shrug*, BTW I miss the splash picture when one of us dies.

[Claus]

From what I read on the Akatsuki, I believe Claus is telling the truth. I wanted to be Zetsu before the game began, you cheeky bastard.

Teehee, sorry about that. But to be honest, I'm almost completely Naruto Illiterate. Until I saw that video ABR posted, I thought my rolechar was some sort of gollum-like creature.



By the way, since it doesn't really concerns me anymore, I'll keep separate Vote and Assassination counts, as Batt asked. You may count them together or separate, as you wish.

Vote Count

Battousai 1 - MoS

Assassination Request Count

Battousai 1 - MoS

[Claus]

Heh, MOS beat me to the punch while I was writing a very similar post to L. But I think it can't be repeated enough.

If not cheating by the letter of the mod rules, it is cheating by the spirit. While I doubt you would/should be modkilled by that, most mods either A- post the town win condition on the first post of the game, B- write every town PM differently or C- send the town win condition to the scum at the beginning of the game.

(when I mod my games here, I usually do A and C)

So it is most likely that that plan will backfire violently on you. But even if it doesn't, you should take your questions back, because it is a really lame way of playing.

[Claus]

*shakes the thread a bit*

Hellooo? Anyone home? GW? Batt?

Do you think I should put up a list of probable loyalist, rebels, L? I mean, I don't have a stake on this anymore, but the game is lagging in terms of contributions, so maybe it would help kick start this back into activity.

[Claus]

There you go. I'm having some trouble with an article I have to finish by next week, but I should be able to fit some time for a quick re-read of this game tomorrow.

Vote Count

MafiaSSK 2 - GW, L
MoS 1 - Battousai

Assassination Request Count

Battousai 1 - Megatron
MafiaSSK 1 - Andersonw
MoS 1 - Battousai

[Claus]

Hello Tom! And great entrance!

L, sorry for making you wait. I'm starting my re-read now, I should be back in 1 hour or so. After that, I might dissapear for a while more. Check the signature.

[Claus]

Sorry for the delay, here is the re-read. I'll probably post very little after this until monday.

========

Discussion topics

- Why Batt is scummy because of system discussion.

Tom, I disagree with you that Batt is not scummy because of system discussion. Let me explain you why:

The problem with system discussion is not that you say you are town, or you are scum, or you make slips, or anything like that. I agree with you that MOS pushing for Batt's slip was bad, and the people who followed that bandwagon are strange as well.

HOWEVER, the problem with setup discussion is that it is a great excuse not to scum hunt. And that is what Battousai has been doing: he has used his questions about the setup, his suppositions, and his discussions when people ask him about it, to avoid thinking and commenting on the players. His only comments and attacks are OMGUS, which are contentless.

So I disagree with you that Batt's setup discussion is not scummy, although I agree that attacking him for the "slip" is bad.

- Why controlling, limiting the kill is a good idea:

I wanted to say this for a long time, but the game was ongoing. Now that it has finished I can put it here. Check Mr. Stoofers' recently finished "Dynamite Stick Mafia". In that game, like in this one, everyone had day kills.

Early in the game a number of players came up with a system to control these daykills, and to punish those who did not follow the daykill controls (Adel, PEG, Quagmire). The scum, on the other hand, spend their time hunting any lurkers to make the town waste their kill on them quickly.

In fact, the kill control method stabilished by the town quickly set the above triad as pro-town looking, and guided the game towards a town victory.

Notice how SSK was against controlling unchecked kills (157)

This is why I think that those who were trying to set up a kill control system in the beginning of the game, and who were not against my revenge kill on Ashmite, are more likely to be pro-town.

========
The List: (From bad to good)

Naughty List

Battousai:

Taking every possible oportunity not to contribute to the game. Buddying up to Sleepy to speedlynch me after revenge kill.

Spotlights:
Bad Points
- During most of D1, limits himself to discussing the setup. When questioned about it, waffles (57)
- Avoids discussing the farside lynch, goes back to system discussion (109) and again (116)
- Shuffles his feet around when accused of not scumhunting, instead of trying to scumhunt. (143)
- Pushes shamelessly against the revenge kill (162)
- Justification for his scummy, non scumhunting play (178), followed by an OMGUS:
- Buddying up to Sleepy panda, attacking me for inverted reasons (184) (see my 185)

Question: I'm actually waiting for any input on the players from you.

Andersonw:

I'm a bit surprised with my re-read of him. Re-reading the thread now, it seems to me that he was always taking "the safe road", by not saying anything that might get him into trouble. I don't like his position during the Farside lynch (hey, I think she might be town... but only two days...) (88,101,125), and I don't like how he tried to get me killed after the revenge kill/claim (166,232)- seems like scum trying to scoop an opportunity lynch.

Question: Why are you putting Megatron now as most scummy?

Megatron:

He seems looking for easy lynches to join. Was early to join the farside lynch (3). Then he is ambivalent on my revenge lynch(8). Then pushes for the "lies" attack on Batt (10). Funny that he putts SSK just below batt during the lies attack, with the reason "doesn't make sense". (his post 12).

Now that tom replaced, he jumped the gun on him. I think I can hear scum saying "oh shit!" that the lurker they were going to lynch was replaced

Neutral List

L

- On one hand, L is greatly contributing to the discussion, and is leading the town, which I find to be a towntell. On the bad side, he adopted a weird position on the Farside lynch (attacking both sides of the lynch), and his attacks against SSK seems the most likely to be a bus. I'm undecided on the "he is a veteran, so shouldn't have asked for the win conditions". That was a stupid action, not a scummy one.

Spotlights
Good Points:
- Pushed for the kill control system (95)
- Makes questions for various players during D2 (134)
- More good questioning on (145)
- Good questioning, upholds the voting system (193)
- Leading the town.
Bad Points:
- Voted for both DGB AND Farside (both sides of the fence) (121)
- Explained the vote on DGB and the vote on Farside, but not the
contradiction on voting one against the other at the same time (181)
- Tries to tie GW and MafiaSSK together, when GW was a pure lurker (226)
- Attacks SSK heavily on (234), but then shows him a light by the end of the tunnel on (239).

MOS

- On one hand, he is the first to suggest and push for a "no-kill" policy, which would greatly benefit the town (turn the game into nightless, with possible power roles). It was so good to the town that the mod had to add a rule to prevent it (see also Dynamite Stick mafia above). Defends the revenge kill which, while admittedly done on my self-interests, was a pro-town move to control the day-vig spiral.

- On the other hand, starts and pushes the "lie" attack on Battousai, and is not contributing that much.

Spotlight
Good points
- First to suggest and push the "Lynch only" plan (before rulechange) (59)(62)
- When rules change, suggest the "assassination" system.
- 174 is a good posting
Bad point
- Don't like 172 - I don't like attacks based on slips. Pushes this attack for a good while, when proven wrong backs down.

Question:
MOS, you own the game a good re-read and your position on each player. What does it bother you on Tom's scum list?

Nice List

TOM:

I found GW to be just a lurker. He had a few good posts:
4- rivalling bandwagons during the random phase generate discussion. (although he missed SSK's unvote)
6- pressuring battousai

Tom entrance was good. In fact, the SSK kill is actually a null tell. I'm pretty sure the scum by then was pretty gun-ho on having SSK bussed. BUT his questionings and comments later looked pretty much like someone joining a game and trying to scumhunt. (even though I disagree with some of his points)

I noticed that he claimed Mason. Tom, maybe you should rolename claim? If this game is as heavily based on the anime as it seems to be, your claim would probably clear you as a mason, no?


Next: a helpful vote count.

[Claus]

Assassination Request Count:

Tom 1 - Megatron

[Claus]

ATTACK: Battousai

For killing before I blew this whistle. You're not supposed to do it. Even, and pay close attention, even if I do say Jehovah.

[Claus]

I mean, what the hell, both the kill list and the ass list were empty. >:-( I think I explained quite clearly why we need to stick to the voting system.

[Claus]

If at first you don't succeed.

Attack: Battousai

[Claus]

ATTACK: Battousai

Just in case I have to put it all in caps.

[Claus]

This is why I avoid doing dynamics based on random dice in my games.

[Claus]

dum dum DUM!!!!

(heh, I wish)

[Claus]

Claus suddenly attacked Battousai

Not sudden. Battousai attacked Megatron without town consensus. He had to be punished. But this is a good time as ever to take a pot shot at me, no?

because Claus is confusing me greatly. By the way,

Vote: Claus

So, you're not going to wait on Batt's cardflip before voting me? Interesting...

so he's not really taking a stance on Claus, which is pretty much like what everyone is attacking me for, except his is less "explainable", for lack of a better word.

Why is Megatron being "on the wall" less explainable than you being "on the wall"?

[Claus]

Sorry about the delay. I'll be posting something in short notice

[Claus]

Vote Count:

Andersonw 1 - Mastermind of Sin

Not Voting

Battousai_2, Claus, Megatron, L, Tom

(edited)

[Claus]

Ok, here is the short version:

Vote: Batt_2/Andersonw

- tries to push for a quicklynch on me, for very weak reasons
- Extremely scummy 311
- ambivalent on his farside position
- barely pushed for an SSK kill. ("ass SSK for obvious reasons")

I see anderson_w paired with Megatron or L, and Megatron paired with MOS. I see a weak link between L and MOS

Of These, Andersonw is far more scummy.

Details are below.

=========

Questions:

- L, why do you think Megatron is a loyalist? You said it once, then never mentioned it again.
- L, what is your case on MoS? I have looked through your posts, and the only time I see you directly accuse him is on post 17, where you say that he is ambivalent on Anderson_w when he should be accusing him.

- bonus: do you think Anderson and MOS are a scumpair, or do you think they are an "either one or the other" case of scum?


Tom:
- Please come back and post! I want to hear more from you.

MOS:
- I put my questions to you along with your post analysis.

=========

Megatron

- 275: Attacks MOS for being "Overdefensive". This is the third time Megatron is attacking someone for weak reasons (after farside and batt_1).

- 296: "I'm doing a whole lot more toward the scumhunting than you are."
I _REALLY_ don't like this post as a whole. He attacks Battousai heavily, and try to stand at a higher ground... except that I don't remember what is all this scumhunting Megatron has tried to do.

I find it strange that the Town seems to be focusing on Anderson_w/MOS, and letting Megatron slide. I'm afraid Batt_1's attack on Mega has given him a "townie aura" that he didn't deserve.

MOS

293 -

He's committed to bad positions that were proved wrong, but he stuck by them while they seemed correct.

How is that pro-town?

319 - Pair analysis:

While I think this is a good way to go analyzing this game in these last few days, I find some of your choices strange:

> You list me in a lot of your possibly scummy pairs. But in the same post you say you believe my claim. Can you explain this?

> The Tom/L and Tom/Claus pairing seems desperate. What exactly do you see as scummy in Tom? It seems to me you want to keep him "in the game" as far as lynch targets go for as long as possible, while I see him as pretty pro-town. Do you have a case against Tom?

Anderson_w/Battousai:

- First, anderson kind of dissappears in the myst between my last analysis and the Batt kill. Then he reappears with 311, which I have already commented:

> Votes me for "killing a townie" before that townie is cardflipped (This is a BIG red flag)
> Accuses Megatron for not taking a position on me while he has been going back and forth with his opinion of me for the whole game.
> Says that I'm not a rebel and votes me on the SAME POST.

- Then this is his answer to my questioning about his position on farside:

so this could be considered as

"sticking my neck out"

. I said that

nothing could change in 2 days, because it was the truth

, since everyone else seemed to be attacking farside

So, anderson_w would "stick his neck out" just enough to go on record saying he thinks farside is pro-town, but not enough to try to save her?

I don't buy it.

2 days is PLENTY of time to save someone. Guardian changed a lynch from Near to Coron in 10 HOURS before the deadline (see mini 578, pages 22-28). What it looks to me is that he was satisfied with the farside myslinch, and wanted to gain some towncred from it at the same time.

- Then he tries to push for my lynch with this "wonderful" post:

Since the deadline is soon,

Except that, as Albert has said, lynching does not push the kill deadline back - those are two different clocks. Way to try and push the town into a quick lynch.

b) He managed to hit 4 townies with the revenge shot. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the probability of hitting all 4 town at the times he used the kill, if he chose randomly, is 20/99.

Notice the contradiction here. I did not kill randomly. I killed Batt and Ash for breaking the lynch rules, and I killed Farside because it was the town's majority. So you cannot compare those kills with random kills.

Also, notice how he is pushing the farside kill, which was a consensus kill, into my sole hands.

That's pretty low, and including the fact that Claus is experienced and has a good scumdar

And let's finish this with a good dose of "proficiency burden" shall we?


=========

I'll post a corrected vote count later.

[Claus]

Hmmm. Ok, did anything change between the end of last meeting and the beginning of this one?

If not...

Vote: Battousai_2

[Claus]

vote: Megatron

[Claus]

Votecount

Megatron 3 - Tom, MoS, Claus

Not voting: L, Megatron.

With 5 players, it takes 3 to Lynch.




gg everyone

[Claus]

Not thanks to you, SSK Really, don't use lurking as a tactic next time, ok?

Anyway, thanks everyone for the game, it was really interesting, and my first game as Mafia where I actually took an active role (in my other game as mafia I was vigged N1).

Tom, never vote so early at lylo as town. Still, you and L played a great game, although the town shouldn't have bought my "neutral" claim.

Neutrals have to be lynched. As soon as possible. I was quite surprised when people started believing the claim.

I liked Megatron's game as well. Battousai, you RETURNED to setup discussion after replacing anderson_w - you need to work on that. Setup discussion looks scummy and doesn't really help the town.

BTW, Ashmite had a post restriction where he was forced to post Vote Counts for the mod. When I killed him, I inherited that PR. Talk about a lazy mod .

As for the lucky kills, the mafia could daytalk, so to a certain degree, we distributed our steal attempts as to have as much chance as possible of holding the kill. Still, I was pretty lucky with the dice. Man, you really really should have killed me after the Sleepy Panda kill.

I'll post more comments later.

[Claus]

You were SK, Mega?

[Claus]

Oh, just read the cardflip. Wow...

Totally didn't see that coming

[Claus]

Lol. Cool. Hey Albert, can you post the roles and powers?

Also, Mos, do you have anything against posting a link to the Scum Quick Topic here?

[Claus]

This is funny, in the first meeting, I had the kill AGAIN after killing Battousai, and I had MOS steal it from me, because I thought one of the townies would try to steal the kill from me after so many successful attacks.

I think everyone thought that "Claus couldn't POSSIBLY have the kill this time"

[Claus]

Albert, Thanks for the game. It was fun.

[Claus]

Well, L, if it makes you feel easier, you couldn't have killed MoS, because it was Lylo - No kills at Lylo.

[Claus]

The neutral claim was awesome, I felt sick thinking of how good it was if it was fake. Is there a nomination for best fake claim?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7255

I guess you can use "Best Roleclaim" or "Best Manipulation"

[Claus]

Thanks for the nom, L

[Claus]

I was curious as to why no one decided to kill Claus even after he claimed. He said he was a neutral anyway and that him being alive or dead wouldn't affect lylo so that means killing him off would've been safer than keeping him around.

I knew you would never buy it, That's why I killed you, Panda <3

Farside, the kill started in the hands of town. I stole the kill from L in the beginnin (pure luck). Then Ashmite killed, then I stole the kill again when I used it on him, etc.

[Claus]

Ash, really, why did you kill DGB at that time? I know you explained it during the game, but did you really think she was going to shoot first?