Mini 611a - Troy, Meet Helen (Restarting)
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Netlava
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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This post is scummy because of the way you force charter to take a stance on Blackberry this early in the game while placing the responsibility entirely on him. Charter says Blackberry's actions seem odd? What do they like seem to you? I would consider that a loaded question.CF Riot wrote:Charter you say Blackberry's actions seem odd. On a scale of 1-10 rank his scumminess in your eyes right now.
Charter's response isn't scummy to me, because I consider CF Riot's question a loaded question, and therefore his response is justified.
I'm curious why you ask?CF Riot wrote: Netlava you think what is strange? Mac saying firmcon, or you not being able to compare it to anything? (just wondering)
Pretty convincing. However, "On a scale of 1-10 rank his scumminess" does not seem like a question you would ask if you were suspicious of charter in the first place. I would expect a question with a distinctively different flavor.CF Riot wrote:Post 38
Unvote, Vote: CF Riot-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Walnut's post sounds like a joke vote.
The thing is, the blackberry issue looked pretty insignificant. "Obviously it can't be very odd, or even odd enough to raise much suspicion." I'm thinking that you (as scum) may have overestimated the situation and tried to encourage a bandwagon while avoiding responsibility.CF Riot wrote:I was more asking him to stick to his guns and expand on his meager posts.-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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I'm not defending Charter. I think his reaction was justified, but I don't think he's necessarily innocent or guilty.
However, I do think you're guilty, so that implies that Charter isn't scum, unless you are bussing him, which doesn't seem as likely.
Being the first to accuse Charter doesn't mean much, because that's not why I think you're scum. For now, I'll take your word on what your intentions were though.
My other suspect at the moment would probably be Mac.
I don't like how you're setting up links Charter flips town. Setting up links if someone flips scum, I can understand (with some caution), but not if someone flips town. This suggests that you are scum who knows whether Charter is town, and are thus taking precautions or setting up future votes. It also suggests that you may not be too convinced whether Charter is scum, even though you entertain the idea of a Charter lynch.CF Riot wrote:I don't know when the lynch will come, but assuming we vote Charter and he flips town, I'll have to rethink what's gone on, but my most likely target will be Batt. If he hangs and flips Mafia, I don't know yet who may be with him. Maybe a better guess if more people post. Mac, Near, either of you still with us?
@ Mac and Had, your votes would seem to indicate that you guys are suspicious of Charter and would support a Charter lynch. How guilty/suspicious is Charter in your opinion?-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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I think you're guilty, but I do try to give you the benefit of the doubt for some of your claims.CF Riot wrote: You're being totally inconsistant in why I'm a suspect, yet you do think I'm guilty. Okay wait, now that I think about it, nottotallyinconsistant.
The question, "On a scale of 1-10 rank his scumminess," is scummy because it's not a question one would ask when suspecting someone, which makes me doubt your earlier claim that you suspected Charter when asking that question. What info did you hope to glean from such a question?CF Riot wrote:Is that one scum tell from page 2 really the only reason you're voting me? Because you would interrogate a suspect differently in my situation?
I suspect you had ulterior motives with that post i.e. egging on a bandwagon without looking suspicious. I think this quote from post 38 explains it pretty well:
CF Riot wrote:You were the one to say it was odd behavior in the first place, not me.
It's a scum tell because baddies know who is scum. So when accusing a player, they know their alignment beforehand and the fact that they'll inevitably be "wrong." Your posts seem to indicate this by trying to shift the blame already in the case of a mislynch. Usually when townies try to get someone lynched they are at least reasonably convinced that the person is guilty. Granted, nothing is certain, but if you aren't convinced whether someone is guilty why lynch?CF Riot wrote:About me thinking ahead to day 2, if I knew what Charter's role was for sure, I wouldn't need precautions. I'd know I was right or wrong ahead of time. Your logic doesn't make sense. I think Charter's actions give off a very strong scumminess, but I'm not convinced of anyone.
The "tell" here is that he considers the idea of a Charter lynch while he speculates what would happen if Charter were to flip town. Contradictory.Macavenger wrote:Not seeing this. I get no implication that he's scum knowing charter is town from that.
FirmconMacavenger wrote:
Reasons? I see no justification for this in any of your posts.Netlava wrote:My other suspect at the moment would probably be Mac.
But mostly because of the timing of your Charter vote, which looks off.
The question he asked was scummy and also because of his recent let's lynch Charter-is Charter innocent? post.Battousai wrote:Netlava: What he, (Mac), said. But seriously, I don't get why you voted CF. Is it because he jumped on a bandwagon, or was it because he asked Charter a loaded question (which I don't find loaded at all, and in fact helpful to town)?
Post 33 is serious. I think it's a legit scumtell.-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Macavenger, are your unvotes and votes always this methodical, or is it just me?
Also, Mac, how guilty was Charter in your opinion at the time of your vote? I noticed that your unvote of him was quite timely (after I asked this question).
An answer to this type of question wouldn't have given any insight into Charter's guilt/innocence at that point in the game, yet it puts him in a bad position by forcing him to commit that early on over apparently nothing. It also grossly overestimates the significance Charter's "that's odd" post.Macavenger wrote:Justify. This early, why wouldn't you ask that of someone you have a tiny suspicion of?
Had was the first to vote, and his reason was pretty trivial. It seemed more of an upgrade over a random vote. On the other hand, your reason indicated the beginnings of a case on Charter.Macavenger wrote:Explain why the timing of my vote is off, but Hadhfang's or Battousai's isn't.
Battousai, I'm not so sure about it because it's a pressure vote, so it's harder to guess at its intent.
Your vote was the second vote after Tinsley's FOS, and the reason for your vote was a bit ambiguous.
I think having someone take a stance that early in the game was an unrealistic expectation. Mac, rank Near's scumminess 1-10!Macavenger wrote:I also think an accusation of "not taking a stance" for a middle number would be seriously silly, since giving a number is pretty much by definition taking a stance.
This post implies you are voting Charter just to look more town to the town. Another questionable motive!CF Riot wrote: If it will help prove my township and prove I'm willing to take responsibility for my own actions, so be it. Vote: Charter
I think you are overestimating your predicament - you aren't close to getting lynched. Anyways, what scenarios do you have in mind? Does this mean that you feel the people who are suspecting you are mafia?CF Riot wrote:I'm so mad at this game right now I'm going to cry. I think I'm being played really well by the mafia, but my brain is so fantastical the scenarios I come up with of how they're doing it are too ridiculous to be logical on D1.
I meant that scum may feel compelled to take precautions because they know they'll be "wrong." Innocents don't know, so they usually hope for the best and assume they'll be right.CF Riot wrote:No I never meant to imply that I was in fact taking them. Netlava said it appeared that I was taking precautions as scum. I am not scum, and my post was saying "if I were, I wouldn't need them."-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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I missed the part where you said it was mainly a pressure vote in your previous post, so that makes you look a little better, I guess.
I still don't see how an answer that question would help. But more importantly, it leads Charter to the conclusion that Blackberry's action was scummy with the phrase "you say that blackberry's actions seem odd." The question almost expects Charter to find Blackberry scummy and makes not finding Blackberry scummy a direct disagreement with his previous post.Macavenger wrote:Completely disagree. The actual number wouldn't have given much information, but the way someone answers (or doesn't, in this case) can be a valuable reaction to look at. It wouldn't have put him in a bad position at all, as very little stock would (or should) be put in that number later.
Your vote didn't seem like a pressure vote. Now that you say it is, I guess I'll have to take your word for it. I'm not so sure about Had's and Battousai's votes either, but yours just feels the most suspect.Macavenger wrote:This is pretty inconsistent. Tinsley was actually the first to vote, though it was random. Had was the first serious vote, followed closely by Tinsley confirming his.
I fail to see any way my vote was substantially different from Hadhfang's. The only real difference is that I used the word "case," and I did so in reference to what charter had already said himself.
You also already know mine is a pressure vote when you wrote this part, like Battousai's, so why are they still being treated differently if that makes it hard to guess intent?
Except nothing was realistically going to happen with the Blackberry incident either, and CF Riot was trying to make something happen.Macavenger wrote: The situation is not analogous, and you know it. Near has posted literally no serious content of any kind this game, whereas charter actually had said something of substance about blackberry.
Stay active so we can continue to interrogate youCF Riot wrote:Lastly, since this is another of my long winded posts, I'm going to try for at least the end of day 1 to start giving shorter posts unless specifically questioned.
Are you admitting that the case against you is sound?CF Riot wrote:I think I'm being played really well by the mafia-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Well, yeahHadhfang wrote: Good point, but the way you say it suggests you feel Riot is scummy.
Actually, I think Macavenger may be more innocent than previously thought. His questionable votes and adherence to principle may be more posting style because it's so prevalent in his posts. Battousai - I don't know yet - he may be more scummy than I previously thought.Tinsley wrote:Netlava - How did Macavenger's vote on charter feel more suspect than Battousai's?
Tinsley, what do you think of CF Riot?
Nice, you're on my list of suspicion already. What do you think of Charter and CF Riot?Shadowgirl wrote: I apologize for no posts - I've had to go to my friend's birthday, and I've been preparing for my dad's birthday. If anyone has any questions they'd like to me, I'd be happy to answer them.
Anyway, Acid, which post would you be referring to since 89 is your post?
He prefaces that question by pointing out that "you say Blackberry is scummy," which leads Charter to that conclusion. "Rank his scumminess" also implies that the action was scummy.Hadhfang wrote: Netlava, looking at that it looks like you think the question was loaded, why is that?-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Odd implies scummy, people.
CF Riot wrote:Charter you say Blackberry's actions seemodd. On a scale of 1-10 rank hisscumminessin your eyes right now.
omg, hypocritehadhfang wrote:Although I can't see this as a scum tell, but slightly odd play.
I changed my mind. Right now, I find batt and had to be the most scummy (explained later).Macavenger wrote:Really? What's suspect about Hadhfang's vote? Cause you didn't seem to imply that you found anything suspect about his when you brought it up earlier.
Initially, after reading that post I found it strange that was the one thing she had questions about, but upon second consideration, it seems like a simple clarification question.Shadowgirl wrote:Why do you suspect ShadowGirl?
Big difference!Macavenger wrote:He said "odd" not "scummy," and it was a direct quote of charter's own words. These do not mean remotely the same thing, and he wasn't leading charter at all.-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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Part II The breakthrough
CF Riot has been giving me pro-town vibes as much as I find his actions scummy. Therefore, after re-reading the thread, I think had is scum. Batt would be my second choice.
Implies not answering questions is somehow lynch-worthy.battousai wrote:As you can see, not answering questions is bad. Now I don't think you should be lynched based on that alone, but I will add my vote on you to add on even more pressure.
Discusses power roles, and not convinced hehadhfang wrote:I'm thinking now that Charter may be an overeager town player or have a power role which might account for his defensivness. Still, I'm going to keep my vote on him for now, becuase I'm not entirely convinced he isn't scum.isn'tscum? You were convinced in the first place?
hadhfang wrote:I think that you are perhaps a bit too over eager to defend your actions, This might be a scum tell, but i'm going ot see where this leads.
Damn that vote was useful. A few posts later and you unvote, having gained the wonderful insight of that vote, Anyways, defensiveness as a possible scumtell is the motif here.
ANY CHANCE YOU COULD READ MY ANSWER!?hadhfang wrote:Thanks for confirming the obvious netlava, any chance you could answer the question now?
Again, with the defensiveness theme. Is defensiveness is your main reason for voting Charter? I find pointing out defensiveness as the main reason for voting scummy because from my limited experience as scum, it is the reason I am most tempted to give. discuss.hadhfang wrote:I did make the point about him him being defensive, but to elaborate on that, I feel that Charter is being a bit too defensive at this moment in time, especially when considering that when he made that post he only had 2 votes on him (I think?) and one of which was a random vote.
Post implies you expect charter to be defensive after voting him. Then you use that as a scumtell!battousai wrote:I see my vote has gotten a reaction out of you charter. Just so you know, just because I vote for you doesn't mean I want you lynched. I wanted to see how defensive you would become with an additional vote on you.
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To summarize:
Had is scum, batt is probably the second. Third, dunno yet.
Unvote, Vote: Hadhfang-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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I'm looking for 3 scum - it seems pretty standard in a 12 player game.walnut wrote:There is no game setup metadata that says that there are three scum. Would you care to explain?
The only word you need to look up is "imply."hadhfang wrote:Then we are looking at different dictionaries. odd to me means slightly stange, not scummy.
In the context of this game, odd IMPLIES scummy. Why do we point out that something is odd in this game? Is it simply because it's bizarre? No, we say it's strange because it can be interpreted as scummy behavior.
If we take it one step further, what is the definition of "strange?" Something that is not normal. In this game the "norm" is the town, which constitutes the majority of the players and is thus the standard for comparison. We are trying to weed out the deviations from the norm, which are the mafia. Therefore, strange -> mafia.
This "maliciously word twisting" theme is nonsense. You guys are just purposely misinterpreting my posts, and adding some drama to it.
If anything, this should lend credence to the idea that CF Riot's question was loaded, as his question purported the idea that saying something is odd -> scumminess. How come you don't question that?
Oh look! Had is just gonna take whatever I say next, and say I'm twisting people's words!hadhfang wrote:Oh look! netlava's twisiting people's words, there's a first!
Alright, let's go back to the post:
My comment here was that it implies not answering questions is lynch worthy. Here, we look at the assumptions. Batt dispels the notion that Charter should be lynched solely because he didn't answer a question. To dispel this notion requires the assumption that a person should be lynched solely for that in the first place, which is an absurd idea. Consequently, batt's post seems fake. I also don't like how he subscribes to the general mantra "not answering questions is bad."battousai wrote:As you can see, not answering questions is bad. Now I don't think you should be lynched based on that alone, but I will add my vote on you to add on even more pressure.
Doesn't change anything. Were you really convinced that Charter was scum just based off of that in the first place? I feel that the sentence, "I'm going to keep my vote on him for now, becuase I'm not entirely convinced he isn't scum" is an excuse for scum to leave their vote on someone in case he is lynched while they debate whether they are innocent or guilty.hadhfang wrote:I mentioned it was a possibility, but to me it seemed that charter was more likely to be scum than have a power role, Also interesting is that you only notice this once Blackberry points it out.
I think defensiveness in general is a flawed scumtell. It varies too much from person to person.hadhfang wrote:Remember this is day 1. Charter was defensive from the first question posed to him. That to me seemed too defensive for a power roll player, hence my remaining vote on charter at the point i theorised it was a possibility. I was fairly convinced that he was scum, but there was the tiny possibility that he was a power role.
Btw, had, the quote that where it says you are scumhunting for more "correct" reasons is actually macavenger's, not mine.
How many times do I have to repeat myself?? Your question to Charter is loaded because you lead Charter to the conclusion that BB's action was scummy even though it was obvious he thought nothing much of it that early in the game. It also forces him to commit way too early in the game over apparently nothing.CF Riot wrote:You didn't answer my question. (Now that I look at it, it seems to be unclear. What I want to know is why you think my question to Charter only leaves him one answer, but not my question to you.)
I think you're overplaying your "I take responsibility!!" act now. Weren't you debating on whether Charter were innocent just a moment ago? PS I don't think Charter is mafia.CF Riot wrote:How can anyone not be convinced Charter is Mafia?
Not a jokeCharter wrote:What is it? If it is Netlava saying odd implies scummy, he's clearly being fecetious. Note the rolleyes smily.
Maybe if you read the words in between, it would help.Macavenger wrote:No. It doesn't. At all. I'm awed by your ability to bold two unrelated words.
I changed my mind. woohoo. Because obviously nothing new has happened in this game, am I right?Macavenger wrote:Nope, no backsies. It doesn't work this way. My post was the only one in between those two posts you made, and it provided no new information on Hadhfang's vote. You don't get to just suddenly change your mind like that. That's a scummy action.
LOL, you really think I'm buddies with Charter?Macavenger wrote:Translation: "Shit, people realized the bullshit wagon I started on CF Riot was bullshit. I need to start another bullshit wagon so they don't lynch me or my buddy charter!"
And the case against CF Riot is based around 2 primary themes. The first is his question and the second is the precaution he takes. However, CF Riot's third act, voting Charter to stick to his guns, strikes me as a newb act, so therefore I'm inclined to dismiss CF Riot as a newb townie.
The timing is obvious. But what do you want me to do, pretend that it didn't change?Macavenger wrote:Seriously, this is another example where you don't just get to change your mind cause you feel like it. The timing of this is just too unbelievably convenient. Right as the pressure on CF Riot dissipates, you suddenly find him townie, after all those posts you spent attacking him, giving no indication you thought there was any chance he was town? This is bullshit. You're changing your mind on him because you're scum, and realized you can't mislynch him.
Look harder.Macavenger wrote:Funny cause when I read Battousai's sentence, it implies exactly the opposite. He says he doesn't want to lynch you just on that. Could you please at least try to hide the fact that you're twisting everyone's words to say what you want? This feels like shooting fish in a barrel, not a game.
I think you're town, Macavenger, because you put quite some effort into that long post with a cocky attitude even though you're wrong.Macavenger wrote:The tells I'm using on Netlava are mainly twisting what people say to mean what he wants, and backtracking/flip flopping.-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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It doesn't apply to the criteria I detailed earlier.CF Riot wrote: You totally missed the point here. You said why you think Charter's is a loaded question, which I've read from you already. But the whole idea I want you to explain is how it is any different than the question I asked you?
Joke, right?
I'd like to hear what CF Riot's opinion on the odd/scummy issue here is, and I find it odd *cough* scummy that he didn't comment on it earlier. I thought it was obvious that odd implied scummy in his question.hadhfang wrote:mhmmm, as opposed to you misinterpreting CF Riot's question and "taking it one step further" or putting words in his mouth as it were.
Also, this goes hand in hand with my point earlier that CF Riot took a trivial early-game comment and turned it into something that it wasn't. The idea that CF Riot was suspicious of Charter may not even be relevant here.
Absurd notions need not to be dispelled.hadhfang wrote:Well if bat was dispelling an absurd notion I fail to see the problem.
Well Charter's answer was sort of like that, except he called the question loaded. Either, this doesn't change the fact that the question was pointing him in a specific direction.Charter wrote:I don't think that Charter is incapable of saying "I think that BB is only 1 on that scale because it jsut seems odd, not scummy to me."
What makes you so sure Charter is scum? I've been hearing comments that Charter is "extremely scummy" with reasons of "too defensive" or "didn't answer a question." Is that all? This question also applies to battousai and CF Riot, but not Macavenger.hadhfang wrote:Why's that then netlava? Why don't you think that Charter is scum?
I don't think Charter is scum because of certain inhabitants of his bandwagon with suspect reasons for jumping on.
Great logic there.hadhfang wrote:Well considering everyone except you thinks that Charter is scum, logic would dictate that yes he does.
I didn't say "always," there are exceptions. But in this case, it is perfectly applicable.Macavenger wrote:Sometimes odd can mean scummy. You're trying to say that it always does, which is not true.
Time is not measured in game posts.Macavenger wrote:Lots has now. You changed your mind about hadhfang's vote between post 110 and post 113, between which you and I were the only ones to post.
You're taking things at face value.Macavenger wrote:Again, you're reading tons of crap that isn't there into what people are saying. He's making sure no one misinterprets his vote as him thinking that, emphasizing that it's just a pressure vote. You trying to make his statement into the opposite of what it is is just hilarious.
It's scummy, but it also seems like a newbie act.Macavenger wrote:Huh. This looks oddly like attacking CF Riot for the thing you just said made him newbie town.
Town? Actually, I am unsure. CF Riot's posts continue to seem scummy to me, but I don't think he's a suitable for a D1 lynch.Macavenger wrote:Ok, so in post 157 he's finally town.
Anyways, Macavenger it seems your main points are my "malicious word twisting" and my sudden change in opinion. What you call "malicious word twisting" is actually just my tendency to address the assumptions and implications of posts that you could see if spent some time reading and thinking through my logic. As for my sudden change in opinion, well, things change. Nothing more I can add to that. This game, in general, is not very flexible, and consequently this is also one reason I was so adverse to CF Riot's question, because to have someone commit that early over apparently nothing is a great benefit to scum.
PS Vote hadhfang for great justice-
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Netlava Mafia Scum
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