Mafia 81: SSW II - Game over!

[Battle Mage]

hi guys!!

So, umm, why am i claiming?

BM

[Battle Mage]

with no votes on me? lol
Ok, i'll humour you. What's the case on me that is vigworthy but not worth a single vote?

BM

[Battle Mage]

with no votes on me? lol
Ok, i'll humour you. What's the case on me that is vigworthy but not worth a single vote?

BM

The fact flameaxe has been lurking and ive seen him do that when he was scum

gee, with that sort of meta, how can i not be scum? rofl

This start doesn't fill me with confidence, even with the Mafia Recruiter dead, but i'll claim.

I'm the Alpha Wolf. I have several 1 shot abilities: Protect, Roleblock, Track and Kill.

Night 1 - Roleblocked Farside22
Night 2 - Protected My Milked Eek

That means i have only 2 abilities left. No choice has been submitted for tonight yet.

It's a pretty confirmable role, so i dont really see why i'd be vigged today. Anyway, i'll give the game a read over later. If i'm gonna die, i'd better make sure i take a scumbag down with me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh shit...
I didnt think the deadline would be THAT early on monday morning. I havent even finished reading yet, let alone submitted a choice for yesterday. -.-

But, i think we have established that the claims alone are important, but perhaps the TIMINGS are moreso. If Jenter claimed berserker before Phoebus, then he is confirmed.

Jenter still claims to have his kill. Did Eek have any claimed results?

Can somebody please explain why OGML is confirmed?

I also dont like the way Farside thinks it is appropriate for her to organise the claim order- putting herself at the bottom no less.

FoS: Farside

I think we have our next claimant. I'll keep reading.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I have no special abilities. Just a useless townie who has been in this town FOREVER!!!

Great Great Great Grandpa Grimmy

erm, your role is 'townie' in a werewolf=town game? 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, did you act and was there a result?

no, and umm, no. -.-

[Battle Mage]

I have no special abilities. Just a useless townie who has been in this town FOREVER!!!

Great Great Great Grandpa Grimmy

erm, your role is 'townie' in a werewolf=town game? 0.o

BM

Let me clarify this for you.

We are a town of wrewolves. All of us werewolves are townies. It is the humans that are the scum/mafia in this particular game.

Yeh, and you just hinted at HUMAN flavour. Since when did wolves have great grandpa's?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually I'd like to see jenter shoot BM. Even with a recruiting scum, this town seems altogether too powerful with his 4 different shot jack of all trades in what is practically a mini game. I believe jenter's claim based on phoebus' reaction to it. If BM is really a town vig, then he should shoot whichever vanilla claim he finds the scummiest tonight.

*facepalm*

Havent we already clarified why i might be a tad stupid to kill one of the few roles here that is actually confirmable?

BM

[Battle Mage]

*it. lol

Vote count

(8 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Grimmy – OhGodMyLife

Not voting:

Battle Mage, farside22, Grimmy, Jenter Brolincani, Mr. Flay, muffinhead, SpyreX

Deadline:

Friday 20 June 1:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Battle Mage]

How would you like to confirm yourself, BM?

How many abilities do you have left to use?

Just Tracker and Vig. Both are confirmable, but with few power role claims left, it would probably be best to use the former ability tonight.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM's response makes me like my plan even more.

Jenter should definitely shoot BM tonight.

Lol, let me guess. Claimed Tracker is slightly concerned at prospect of being caught in red-handed?

BM

[Battle Mage]

farside, I found it hard to believe we had two town trackers. I was obviously wrong. We also appear to have had two berserks. However, I am finding it extremely hard to swallow that on top of those two pairs of roles, and a cop, we also have a very powerful jack of all trades.

If BM is town, he shouldn't have any problem with going through with the plan I proposed. Its like telling a claimed vig to shoot himself to save the town a lynch. If he doesn't do it, he's scum. Jenter's claim is corroborated by Phoebus' reaction to it, now that we know what Pheeb's role was, which is why I'm not requesting Jenter die tonight as well. One of Jenter and BM should be shooting BM tonight, and the other should be shooting at the crowd of vanilla townie claims. I'd rather have Jenter shoot BM, as I am basically certain that Jenter's claim was truthful.

Grimmy, don't worry, I still love you, I just think you're scum.

roflmao!

Let me get this right, because i'm clearly a little confused. You think that it is logical for a JoAT- one of the most powerful protown power roles in existence, to want to be killed before he had used up his abilities? Are you shitting me? 0.o
You aren't making any sense, and you point this out yourself, when you try and compare your plan to 'getting a vig to shoot himself'?!? WTF, srsly?

I am noticing a kind of pattern with your 'plan' though. It seems to focus on the fact that you want both Jenter and myself to bump off any player OTHER THAN YOURSELF. To be honest, your claim itself isnt that unbelievable, although depending on the timing, it could be 'more' or 'less' confirmed.

With so many players left, i dont see a protown reason not to let me verify my role- especially seeing as i can confirm myself so easily. Hell, i used my RoleBlock on Night 1- that in itself can be confirmed/denied.

I won't be shooting anyone tonight. I'll be tracking YOU to validate YOUR claim. It's upto Jenter whether he would rather kill me than have me alive and confirmed tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok not much for me to say. I agree with spyrex that bm and jenter should vig tonight so we know the truth.

At this stage there is no one i find really scumy however im sus of ogml purly because he targetted the same person 2 nights in a row.

So @ogml why exactly did u target mme again?

Also to everyone- what do u think of 2 sucm still being left in the game? Im starting to see it as a possibility.

ps im vanillia.

you agree that me and Jenter should Vig...who?

BM

[Battle Mage]

who do you want lynched today?

[Battle Mage]

Currently, the scummiest player is OGML, but as his role is confirmable, i'd like to see him confirmed/disputed asap. I'll try and look into the vanilla claimants now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Interesting interaction between Mr Flay and Xyzzy early in the game. Korts make a good point about a potential Spyrex slip. Xyzzy and Flay try to play it down. Xyzzy goes OTT in attacking Korts. Spyrex’s explanation in post 39 makes no sense, and undermines the defence of him which was on the grounds that he just made a mistake. FoS: Spyrex
Surprisingly, Korts seems to buy it. OGML’s attack of Xyzzy seems very ‘tongue in cheek’. Post 99 by OGML stinks of setting up multiple lynches.
Spyrex’s behaviour on Page 5 is even worse. He originally claims that he doesn’t want to vote for Xyzzy yet, but under pressure from OGML, concedes promptly, without fulfilling his originally stated intention of ‘waiting for Xyzzy to defend himself’. Flay seems resigned to seeing Xyzzy hang. Korts hops off the wagon. Farside and Flay are to some extent confirmed innocent by their posts in twilight of Day 1. Assuming no kill was made on Night 1, they are almost certainly confirmed town. However because Farside was roleblocked, that could also be responsible for the no-kill.

So, here’s my LoS so far:

Scummy:
Spyrex
OGML

Potentially scum due to role based info rather than play:
Farside

Hasn’t Done anything remarkable either way:
Grimmy

Highly likely town:
Mr Flay
Muffin Head
Jenter Brolincali

I think with so few suspects, this game should be wrapped up pretty quickly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So, BM, you think I bussed xyzzy then? I don't know if you noticed, but that lynch pretty much happened because I made it happen.

Did you not READ what i said? Of course i think you bussed. You made it pretty obvious in the posts i highlighted that you KNEW he was scum. What are your claimed tracker results btw?

And farside, who has a cop innocent result to confirm her, is also near the top of your scum list. Sweet.

Ok, cool. So we've narrowed it down to 2.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Tracker results:
N1: farside goes nowhere
N2: eek goes to rogue shenanigans
N3: eek goes to grimmy

If you really think I

knew

that xyzzy was scum any more than you seem to

know

I'm scum you need to read day one again. And if you really think somebody would bus the mafia RECRUITER before the lynch became inevitable you're just wrong.

thanks, but ive read it quite well ty. I suggest if u want to plead ur innocence, u get a third opinion?
And in my mind, the lynch was pretty inevitable when u arrived on the scene and properly bussed. obv, it was better for you to be on the wagon than off it at first, in case it did escalate, which it did, at which point u got more aggressive.

BM

[Battle Mage]

shit, sorry about that guys. Wasnt able to get access for the last 24 hours. reading now.

[Battle Mage]

BM has been conspicuously absent from this game while still managing to post in his other games ever since I asked him a direct question and SpyreX proposed his plan.

that's an interesting conjecture, but unfortunately for you, anybody can quite easily check and verify that you are talking utter bs.
I've been on legitimate V/LA status, and the Mod was notified, and i asked him to notify you guys, for those of you who are too lazy/stupid to check my most recent posts.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Tomorrow evening at around 5, I'll be leaving for a redeye flight to Paris thats gonna have me away while the deadline takes place. If BM doesn't get in here before then to 1) answer my question and 2) confirm he's going along with SpyreX's plan, he's getting my vote at that time, and you guys will either have to help me lynch him, or get a majority on Grimmy without me.

This is probably going to require some explanation too. What about your question regarding Muffinhead is integral to my affiliation at this stage? You should always be considering motives, if you are town. Why do you suppose i would 'ignore' such a question as scum?

BM

[Battle Mage]

OGML, if BM hasn't replied by then I, too, will add my vote because I do NOT understand why the sudden silence.

Have fun in Paris.

Same question to you. And indeed Farside. Jesus, this game is becoming real easy!

BM

[Battle Mage]

btw what makes you say muffinhead is highly likely town?

His comments and attitude are ridiculously protown. As were those of his precursor- Korts.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ohh game, now I get to do something I was railing on someone for doing before, defending another player!

So, lets just get this ball a rollin'

Spyrex’s explanation in post 39 makes no sense, and undermines the defence of him which was on the grounds that he just made a mistake.

If it doesn't make any sense to you, thats fine. It was an obvious joke after my other jokes that I was, in fact, trying to make fit the kind of paranoia often seen in these games. I didn't care about undermining my 'defense' because it was pretty damn obvious that I was, in fact, joking in context. I was just explaining the joke for Korts.

I, for one, dont understand the joke.

Post 99 by OGML stinks of setting up multiple lynches.

No kidding? What tipped you off..the fact he said it outright? Based on how that day was going, OGML wasn't the only one thinking just that. I sure as hell was.

Maybe so, but the manner in which he was bussing was clearly focussing more on the next day's lynch, in order to ensure his own survival.

He originally claims that he doesn’t want to vote for Xyzzy yet, but under pressure from OGML, concedes promptly, without fulfilling his originally stated intention of ‘waiting for Xyzzy to defend himself’

I did put my vote in and I clearly said I didn't agree with his methods. However, I agreed with him that ZZ was scummy and THAT is why I put my vote down.

You didnt agree with his methods? Yet, with very little persuasion, you followed them. That's as scummy as hell...

Also, look at the day 2 exchange between Rogue and OGML early on. Rogue claims tracker saying someone went to farside, OGML calls BS because he was the tracker and went to farside and farside didn't go anywhere.

In this exchange, for OGML to be sucm:
1.) He took a gamble that Rogue was talking about him (fairly likely, honestly).
2.) He took a gamble that farside didn't go anywhere (with the number of power roles, highly unlikely)
3.) If he was wrong about farside, he would have hung that day, flat out - it was early enough along that outing himself for this as tracker served no purpose.

thats interesting! Do you have a link for the post?

And, seriously, to think that it would have been better for OGML out of the gates to bus his Recruiter in a game where we have this many power roles is just, to me, silly. If we hadn't nailed the recruited day 1 I honestly think we would have lost - ESPECIALLY if you are telling the truth and there was a potential 3 vigs to be absorbed into the black morass.

He didnt have any choice. It was either risk losing the game on Day 1 by defending his buddy, or try and go along with the wagon, so if the worst came to the worst and he hung, OGML would look spotless.

BM

[Battle Mage]

btw what makes you say muffinhead is highly likely town?

His comments and attitude are ridiculously protown. As were those of his precursor- Korts.

BM

So who are looking to use your ability and why? Are you willing to go with the plan that was proposed?

yeh the plan is fine. I'll kill Spyrex. But there isnt much point shooting Muffinhead at this point. Id rather see Jenter kill OGML, unless Spyrex's can hook out that post clearing him before we go to night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

thats a little ironic, no?

[Battle Mage]

OK, the plan should be followed as SpyreX proposed it.

And BM, which part of "the xyzzy lynch wouldn't have happened if I hadn't made it happen" didn't you get?

the fact that it is a LIE. rofl

does nobody else see the squirming scumbag here? Unwilling to use his role usefully, but desperate to stay alive. If Jenter does not confirm that he will be shooting him tonight, i will.

Vote: Spyrex

BM

[Battle Mage]

Uh huh, why doesn't spryex's plan work for you?

Oh, because it would prove that you're lying, I get it.

i think it needs more dead OGML. Tell me, why are you happy to see anyone else die other than yourself? What makes you so special?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Uh huh, why doesn't spryex's plan work for you?

Oh, because it would prove that you're lying, I get it.

i think it needs more dead OGML. Tell me, why are you happy to see anyone else die other than yourself? What makes you so special?

BM

Someone is making waves. Looks like we have a live one who doesn't want to prove his role. Oh wait if you could kill someone and think he is lying you could use your ability to kill OMGL, but wait your not trying to do that.

no because i was listed as killing Spyrex, which im quite happy with. Im less happy with Muffinhead being shot.

BM

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well in this plan, the fact that I'm a power role and all of the people who spyrex proposed we shoot are claimed vanilla. If you follow it, it will also CONFIRM YOU AS TOWN, which would be a nice bonus for you in the coming days if you're really town.

Whereas if you are scum, coming up with any excuse not to follow it prevents you from being immediately outed.

It seems you and Farside arent quite following this (why am i not surprised. lol).

I'm definitely killing someone tonight. It's just a matter of WHO. Still waiting on Jenter to confirm that he is killing OGML.

[Battle Mage]

wait. what happened to my kill? :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yeh i just checked my sentbox. I shot Spyrex. Mod can you please OPEN your pms?

[Battle Mage]

Okay, all power roles need to check in, and I can think of at least one reason BM might have failed (Mafia Roleblocker framing him up for today).

That said, I need to re-read with grimmy as 'town'.

It was either to make BM look scummie or Spraxy since he is the one who suggested it. Maybe (yes I know WIFOM) he suggested it because he could RB it and make BM look guilty.

Clean Slate vote count of the Day

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

Not voting:

OhGodmyLife, Jenter Brolincani, Mr. Flay, farside22, SpyreX, Battle Mage

Deadline:

Tuesday 24 June 2:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

Flay makes a good point. A mafia RB would explain the lack of scum-NK too- if we only have 1 scum left. I've pmed the Mod about the lack of NK, in order to see if i still have my 1 shot or not.

At this point, i can pretty well understand being lynched today. Sadly that still leaves us with 2 dubious players, and LyLo. To that end, it'd be good if OGML can try and confirm himself today, as he pushed Spyrex's plan as much as Spyrex himself, and fits the criteria given by Farside above.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Not a thought on everyone, but this:

We have no scumkill last night, interesting.

is consistent with a Mafia Roleblocker who must give up their kill to block. Or some town-blocker got lucky... we'll know more once everyone checks in.

How do you figure we're at LyLo, BM? 6 left and probably 1 scum (due to above) means we should be able to take care of both scummy suspects before we're in dire danger.

We don't know if there is one or 2 scum left. But the giving up to RB is used in some games.

In a game with multiple tracking roles, it would be essential.

@Mr Flay- I meant LyLo if i was lynched today, due to the lack of a kill.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, more role conjecture -

If OGML is telling the truth (which I believe) flay COULD NOT be a RB because he would have visited someone. Jenter, I hope COULD NOT have vig'd and RB'd.
I'm not sold on the Godfather Roleblocker (although it could be I guess - although didn't OG track him as well?)

So, really, its either BM or me. Now, I know its not me, but its up to you. I think we have this won (unless OG is the maf) so, town, decide which one of us dies today and which one dies tomorrow.

A few things:

1. Did you ever get around to posting that link to the post confirming OGML? I'd really like to see that before we go any further.
2. You have a good point about the Roleblocker only being you, unless we have 2 scum, although this is unlikely as Flay is pretty well confirmed in my eyes. However another thought i had, was that, in a game with so many potential killing roles, a mafia member with NK immunity would also make balance sense- especially if we had only 2 scum to start with.

That said, i want to hear back from the Mod before we do anything. Im gonna be really pissed if he has made a mistake, when we have such little time to make a decision anyway...

Spyrex jumping to a vote early looks a bit edgy, especially after his plan yesterday clearly set me up for a fall if he is NK immune or RB. I feel pretty much how Farside feels about Spyrex, except if Spyrex is scum, it implicates OGML, as opposed to Mr Flay.

BM

[Battle Mage]

1.) Yes, I think its 209 / 210. Its not "confirming" but its more clear - OGML would have had to have a series of lucky events AND bussed his partner.

ROFL. You ARE kidding me right?
In 210, all OGML does is refrain from actually claiming a result. I suggest EVERYONE

READS

post 210 again, and see what OGML

ACTUALLY

says. If anything, his non-committal way of claiming a result is another strong point against him. It surprises me that you didnt see this...

In essence, you are defending his claim on grounds that he counter-claimed a Tracker. The guy died and came up Tracker. Somehow OGML is not dead. WTF?

I'm at a loss, i really am... 0.o

2.) Dont misconstrue what I said. If there is a roleblocker, it would make sense for it to be me. However, it still could be you if you have pretty much ANY mafia role and lied about your role.

Right, so i roleblocked myself? Try to use a bit of intelligence please. Which ever way you look at it, there isnt much of a case for me being Mafia RB.

If I end up being hung, I really want OGML to track you. The way that post came out like I was setting you up for a fail (I wasn't, it could have been you or jent IF a scenario like this played out).

It, to me, is really going to be either me or BM and I, of course, know its not me.

That sounds fine. I still wish we'd done that yesterday.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Four to lynch so I'll hold off voting, but

FOS: Battle Mage

- how convenient that when no one else seems to have been blocked all game (someone correct me if I'm wrong), your night action comes up missing when it would confirm you?
I'm insanely busy today so no posting for the next 12h or so, but I'll probably vote BM on Monday unless someone pokes a hole in the current theory.

Thanks for the partial clear, OGML. I think we have just one scum left at this point.

Right, so, what? I claimed a Vig ability with no intention of using it? -.-
And what's more, claimed 2 other confirmable abilities? (doc isnt really confirmable). I've already pointed out another possibility-and perhaps one that is more likely at this point- Spyrex is NK immune scum. It fits right in with his intense desire to see me take a pop at him as opposed to anyone else-something that is utterly inconsistent with any protown role.

This is so obvious. If you cant see it, shame on you...

Vote: Spyrex

BM

[Battle Mage]

In 210, all OGML does is refrain from actually claiming a result. I suggest EVERYONE READS post 210 again, and see what OGML ACTUALLY says. If anything, his non-committal way of claiming a result is another strong point against him. It surprises me that you didnt see this...

209:

I am a Tracker. Last night I got a result. I tracked a player to farside22.

210:

Sorry, wrong.
I'm the tracker. That makes you a scum and me awesome.
I tracked farside last night and she didn't go nowhere.

So, AGAIN, 209 Rogue says he tracked someone to farside.
210 OGML says Rogue is lying because he tracked farside and farside didn't go anywhere.

*sigh*
I dont think you are really thinking about this logically. Perhaps its just that, from your viewpoint, double-negatives don't exist. But, speaking personally, when i read what OGML ACTUALLY SAID, my first thought was that he was saying that he had seen Farside go somewhere, and didnt want to claim where.

The fact is, OGML claimed in such a way that he could not possibly be wrong. That you can't see that is really staggering... 0.o

And what's more, claimed 2 other confirmable abilities? (doc isnt really confirmable). I've already pointed out another possibility-and perhaps one that is more likely at this point- Spyrex is NK immune scum. It fits right in with his intense desire to see me take a pop at him as opposed to anyone else-something that is utterly inconsistent with any protown role.

You really didn't see my plan yesterday? At all. Or you're actively misconstruing it.

I didn't care WHO shot who. I was, in essence, eliminating every vanilla role (grimmy by hanging, me and muffin by shooting, flay by tracking) BECAUSE I believed one of you claimed powerroles was lying. I still do. The only reason I suggested YOU to shoot me is because you wanted to all of yesterday anyways.

And yet you encouraged Jenter to shoot MuffinHead, who he had shown no real emnity towards. Why?

If I am wrong about you I hang tomorrow. Thats fine. Why is it that YOU are being so defensive about it all.

Maybe because, the more i think about it, the more i realise that there is no real case for me being scum.

If I was mafia, I would have put myself in a position where there is no way I could actually win it. You think that I would have a chance at lylo after setting up a plan where I should have died but I didn't and yet I am still claiming vanilla especially when I could have just as easily kept my mouth shut.

What? You mean you wish you hadnt claimed vanilla? What would you have claimed if you could go back and try again? How would 'keeping your mouth shut' help in a mass claim?

So, still, I say once again: one of BM and I is highly likely to be mafia. We WILL be hung in succession. However, I know I am not and am only asking the town to believe me enough to hang you FIRST and if I am wrong then I go tomorrow.

I dont see why you are that worried about being hung last, if you genuinely believe i am the last scumbag? I, on the other hand, think there is a strong case for OGML to be scum- and not necessarily with you either.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*sigh*
I dont think you are really thinking about this logically. Perhaps its just that, from your viewpoint, double-negatives don't exist. But, speaking personally, when i read what OGML ACTUALLY SAID, my first thought was that he was saying that he had seen Farside go somewhere, and didnt want to claim where.

The fact is, OGML claimed in such a way that he could not possibly be wrong. That you can't see that is really staggering... 0.o

We're looking at two different parts of it. I've heard lots of people say didn't go nowhere, actually. But, yes, that is a valid concern.

However, as far as I can tell you're saying this is the scenario that played out that makes OGML scum:

1.) Day 1, very early on, he busses his recruiter scumbuddy out of the gate, resulting in a lynch.
2.) Day 2, in response to Rogue (who REALLY looked like scum) claiming he tracked someone to farside he counterclaims tracker and uses ambiguous language to make it readable either way.

Now, my problems with this scenario: (ohh WIFOM, how awesome you are)

1.) I still can not see how bussing, that early and that actively, your recruiter in this game is a good idea. Even with 2 mafia (which is what I believe), and now knowing the role structure they had, all the mafia had to do really was lay low for 2-3 days and they would have won, hands down. Hell, I think there is a scenario where they could have won night 2 (I'd have to play it out, but I think its possible).

I believe we've already discussed this, but hell- its nearly the end of the day, so lets go over it again!

What you are failing to take into account is that we arent talking about ANY old buddy here. We are talking about Xyzzy- who, when OGML showed up, was tying himself up in knots, and attracting alot of attention. Now, look at it from OGML-scum's perspective. What is the optimum play if, in the random voting stage, your mafia leader (in this case, recruiter) is making an ass of himself, and could quite possibly be lynched on Day 1?
Answer: bus immediately. At the very least, you want to be seen as being part of the wagon, in case he gets quicklynched. Actively pushing hard is optional at that stage, and sure enough, OGML first joins the wagon fairly quietly. But, when it becomes clear that Xyzzy isnt going to make it, OGML pushes alot harder. It's textbook stuff really, and you certainly can't fault him on it. It's not like he had a choice about bussing his buddy.

2.) No role-discussion had happened that day 2 yet. Rogue did feel scummy from day 1. WHY would you cc tracker when there are so many other roles you could use to say why you were tracked to farside ASSUMING that you were the one tracked. Instead, I see that whole thing as OGML instantly calling bullshit because he believed Rogue was fake claiming tracker.

Actually, claiming Tracker isnt that surprising in such a scenario. He had been caught with his hand in the till, and he panicked. There are of course, other roles he could have claimed, but claiming Tracker was clearly as effective as anything. Certainly, OGML was believed, and he outlived the actual Tracker. What i dont understand is why the hell he wasnt killed after that... Heck, i bet he doesnt know that either!

So, to me, OGML telling the truth makes a lot more sense than him being both a bad mafia on day 1 and a lucky / poor decision making mafia on day 2. I've said, since then, if he's scum my jaw would drop and I still believe that.

Dude, theres absolutely nothing bad about his play day 1. He did what anyone in his unfortunate position would have done. It's totally understandable. What it is NOT, is inherently protown. In fact, i cant really explain his behaviour concerning Xyzzy if he was town.

And yet you encouraged Jenter to shoot MuffinHead, who he had shown no real emnity towards. Why?

Hmm, maybe because you said more than once you wanted to shoot me?

Thats nice, but doesnt really make sense. In any other game, you'd be laughed out of the thread for offering yourself up for lynch, on grounds that, it is what the Vig wanted. Simply put, if you are going to direct the Vigs, id expect reasoning a little more substantial than 'well you found him scummy, so you kill him, and you don't get on with him, so you can kill him'...

You said you thought I was scum, so

I was letting you shoot me

.

BUT WHY!? o.O
Why would you do that as town?? I just don't get it!
I cant see any real logic for such a request- other than the ulterior motive of setting me up for a fall (since Jenter was already more confirmed than me, and far less likely to be lynched).

Also, if there was gaping holes in this idea, is the whole town scummy? I think most people thought it was a good one because it WAS a good one - even this scenario should result in a town win.

Lol, im not arguing over whether the plan was a good one. Im questionning your motives for creating it as you did.

What? You mean you wish you hadnt claimed vanilla? What would you have claimed if you could go back and try again? How would 'keeping your mouth shut' help in a mass claim?

This plan was MY idea. I thought it had the best chance of clearing the most people. Why would I have brought it up if I was scum? Why not just let the town do whatever (as long as it wasn't getting ME killed). No, instead I made a plan that should have killed me and if it didn't would have put me in the spotlight some. Thats not really smart if I'm scum.

Except of course, for 2 things, which have already been brought up:

1. You are Mafia RB.
2. You are NK Immune Mafia.

In both of these scenarios, your motive is obvious. By setting up the plan the way you did, you ensured that you would get the easiest mislynch possible against a power roles claimant. It was your only shot at winning, after claiming vanilla. It's VERY smart if you are scum.

I dont see why you are that worried about being hung last, if you genuinely believe i am the last scumbag? I, on the other hand, think there is a strong case for OGML to be scum- and not necessarily with you either.

You're right. Honestly, as long as the town hangs you, I dont care if its me first. If the town decides to vote my way I'll hammer myself - as long as you realize that you will be tomorrow. Just like how if I'm wrong with you.

Frankly, i'll be very surprised if i survive today. The way the game has turned out, i OUGHT to be lynched on the grounds that i did fail to deliver. The thing is, when i give it some thought, i feel that me being lynched is infuriatingly stupid. I mean, COME ON! Why would i fakeclaim VIG, if i wasnt intending to kill someone at some point? Surely i couldve just orchestrated the claim with roles i could deliver on- instead of ones which would eventually confirm me one way or the other?
It just doesnt fit...

My thought atm, is that we could have 2 scum left. I think we can be sure beyond reasonable doubt that you are one. But im CONVINCED OGML is scum aswell. So, my plan is, we lynch you today. If you come up scum but the game goes on, we lynch OGML tomorrow. If you come up town, i'll hopefully be able to confirm myself tonight, and we can lynch the final scumbag tomorrow.

Maybe because, the more i think about it, the more i realise that there is no real case for me being scum.

No case?

1.) The only scenario(s) in which you are not scum are I am a immune NK scum OR I or OGML roleblocked you.

yup. Not especially hard to believe in a game with a mafia Recruiter, 2 1 shot Vigs, and a JoaT.

2.) We've already got a pair of vigilantes. You're claiming a 3rd vigilante role (even if 1 shot) in a small game that had a mafia recruiter.

How does the presence of a mafia recruiter (a powerful anti-town role) suggest the lack of protown power roles?

3.) OGML, your major suspect, is built on -so far- one piece of evidence that is very fragile at best.

GG reading comprehension. I hate bs...

4.) Yesterday, from a look, it really seems as though you were the only one really against this plan and NEVER made solid reasons for it.

I was against the death of MuffinHead. Who was, surprise surprise, town. I'm sorry, i must've missed the newsflash where getting townies killed was a massive town tell.

5.) You wanted to track and not kill OGML even though you're so sure he's scum - because, of course, if you had killed him it wouldn't have been a vig kill AND it would have been the only mafia kill. Tracking isn't hard to do, especially when the town lays out what every power role is doing.

Actually, thats wrong too. I was quite happy to kill OGML, but i thought Tracking would confirm me. Had i tracked last night, we'd know if there was a mafia RB or not, and i wouldnt be up for lynch today. Maybe if you thought laying out what power roles should be doing is so unhelpful, you shouldnt have tried to do it? Hypocrite.

6.) Personally, you posting first saying "where's my kill" and then telling the mod to be sure to check his PM's also bothers me (this is 5 because it matters the least).

Wait...why?

So, really, if the town wants they sure can hang me first. When I come up vanilla, I sure hope to God they dont even listen to the backpedaling that will have to happen.

BM isn't a roleblocker, but he sure is scum. What type doesn't matter one bit because ANY type would have been able to do exactly what happened last night.

*sigh* Except they wouldnt, because if i was scum, I WOULDNT HAVE CLAIMED A PROVABLE ROLE.
You are claiming vanilla. You should die today, and OGML and I can try to disconfirm each other tonight.

Confirm Vote: Spyrex

BM

[Battle Mage]

Can you explain to me why you're so hell-bent on being dead with BM, even though you seem to believe it will result in a lose (post 573)? Maybe I'm stupid on a Monday, but that's only true IF we have two scum left AND no saves occur at night, right?

If I am wrong about BM, especially with the way this all went down, barring some kind of magic, I can not see the town not lynching me next. Hell, I'd do it.

I've heard that before! Farside knows what i'm talking about.

I dont think we have the ability, assuming everyone is telling the truth, for there TO be any saves left - so, tomorrow we'll be at 4 if I am wrong and I would be the optimum lynch target.

So, yes, I'm so sure that BM is scum that I have put myself in a position where if I am wrong I think the town will lose because there's no reason whatsoever to not hang me. Hell, how could I really defend my thought process and the events of today without Bm or I being scum?

So, maybe its a martyr thing - all I'm saying is that I am so sure of:
1.) There being only 1 mafia left and
2.) It being BM
That if I have to die for it thats fine. I'll still win, but I really wanted to be alive during the celebration.

Even though, if you were town and died today, i'd be able to confirm myself and OGML would be lynched to clinch the game for us. I really cant see why, as town, you would want to risk the victory, rather than guarantee it by sacrificing yourself. You were willing to do it yesterday. Oh sorry, i forgot. You only like putting your life on the line when you know you cannot be killed!

BM

[Battle Mage]

You said you thought I was scum, so

I was letting you shoot me

.

BUT WHY!? o.O
Why would you do that as town?? I just don't get it!

Jesus, BM, try to keep up.

As a (reputed) townie, part of the power that SpyreX has is to be cannon-fodder. If his death at your hands lends vig-flavor, then you're cleared and we still maintain a positive balance. If he dies and it shows silver, you're dead meat. What better effect could a Townie have at night?

It's not like he was asking to be lynched or anything. With as many power roles as we (apparently) have in this game, townies still serve a purpose.

Thats not what i'm getting at. My point is, why would he want ME IN PARTICULAR to kill him? To which, the answer seems pretty obvious from where i'm sat.

BM

[Battle Mage]

First real vote count of the Day

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

(2) BM (Spyrex, OhGodMyLife)
(1) SpyreX (farside22)

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani, Mr. Flay, SpyreX

Deadline:

Tuesday 24 June 2:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

SpreX gets two vote? Can I have two votes?

Okay that silliness is over. I think there is 2 scum. No one can tell me differently. Either SpreX or Flay or BM and Flay. Those are my thoughts. Looking at the fact that both BM and Flay are voting SpreX and with 12 hours left and Jenter not in sight. I feel a bit safer voting BM with OGML then Flay's vote

unvote:
vote: BM

Umm, Farside, did you replace in and fail to read the game?
Because, Mr Flay is for all intents and purposes confirmed via his vote placing at the end of Day 1. I think we can be 99% sure he is town.
Otherwise, how do you explain the missing NK?
Do you not find it equally suspicious that the two people voting for me are the two people i am attacking as the two suspects remaining. Why don't those 2 come into your analysis of potential scumpairs?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Flay, I thought about suggesting letting BM use his night action again but (since I think he IS the scum) my money would be on him faking a tracking report (which would be easy enough since all the roles are known) or claiming roleblocked...again.

Really, there isn't a way now for BM to clear himself. At best, he'd make it a 50-50 shot tomorrow if I died today.

Who's fault is that?

Jesus. This is the second time i've been lynched with this role. Best protown power, and i dont even get to soak up a nightkill. I don't even know where the Mod is, or why he isn't responding to me.

Having no protective roles left also makes it more difficult. Otherwise, I could use OGML to clear me (or, if the scum gambit'd create a no-lose situation for the town tomorrow). However, as it sits, BM and I can not really be cleared.

Lets put it like this. Assuming you die today, and we have an NK tonight. That leaves myself and 3 other players. 1 of whom is a claimed Tracker himself. OGML can track me, and i can track whoever. If his claim is true, he will see me track whomever i do, and NOT kill them. Do the math.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm getting this really uneasy feeling about BM and Flay...

I'm glad they can't lynch SpyreX by themselves. If BM is lynched scum and the game is not over, I believe Flay has to be the last scum. The fact that he didn't target anyone last night only really clears him of being a roleblocker, not of being mafia altogether, since the mafia did not kill last night.

He did have forewarning that I would be tracking him, after all.

Again, are you intentionally ignoring what went on Day 1? Why do you claim that you are confirmed innocent by your stance towards Xyzzy, when you are quite willing to attack those who shared that stance with you, and indeed, time-wise, are far more confirmed than you are?

This is so obvious, it's untrue. It's really upto Jenter and Farside now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM: Either SpryX is a RB or you didn't do the kill based on flavor text.

Or Spyrex is UnNKable.

You are targeting OGML who was the prime reason zz was lynched so you logic on Flay fails me. The fact you are protecting Flay and I believe OGML more since he is confirmed is all I need.
Can we

Prod Jenter

Look at the timings of the votes. Flay voted towards the end of the wagon, and hence, would not have missed the kill, except as a gambit. OGML on the other hand, could easily have been caught off guard.
Please, dont do what you usually do, and cast a half-baked vote that didnt have alot of thought. I actually expect you to LEARN from all the times you get me killed and you're wrong. Where's the meta analysis?? Christ, where's the thread reading?!

Dont do this to me again... -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

Look at the timings of the votes. Flay voted towards the end of the wagon, and hence, would not have missed the kill, except as a gambit. OGML on the other hand, could easily have been caught off guard.

You're now saying OGML bussed his partner out of the gate and yet, somehow, didn't think to send in a kill request?

evidently the wagon moved faster than he anticipated.

Please, dont do what you usually do, and cast a half-baked vote that didnt have alot of thought. I actually expect you to LEARN from all the times you get me killed and you're wrong. Where's the meta analysis?? Christ, where's the thread reading?!

And you're telling him to meta with the gamblers fallacy instead of looking at how the last 2 days have went down?

This is really looking like flailing before the noose comes up.

if you knew Farside like i do... lol

Im gonna have to go in a sec. submitting my night choice now.

Night,

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok. time for explanations. What the fuck happened to my kill???

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ohhhh, i had to send to Phoebus? lol

Why did nobody else mention that...

Answers
1. I thought the timings were fine.
2. it was...different. Not getting a choice in on time was annoying though.
4. I'm not really sure how the Mafia Recruiter worked. He couldnt ACTUALLY recruit could he?
5. Definitely not.
6. Yes.

It was unfortunate to replace in as i did. I felt a bit annoyed and screwed over that, after my claim, it was suddenly the case that flavour was able to differentiate kills- something which, unless i am mistaken, had not been the case when i first replaced in. I'm a bit annoyed with myself too really. Any other town in their right mind wouldve lynched OGML today, after his behaviour and dodgy claim.

It was a fun game to replace into- just i feel a bit gutted about the way it ended...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yeh i guess you're right. Its just, i see stuff like that all the time. In fact, from a mathematical angle, I'd say that significantly more scum would choose to bus than not to bus. It's just impulse to distance from your buddies. I also see comments like 'if you pulled that off, you deserve to win" often too. It bugs me in this instance, because bussing is so natural for scum. I cannot express how neatly OGML fitted what i would expect from scum in this game. If anything, it was my genuine suspicion of him that hindered my attempt to get YOU lynched.

BM

[Battle Mage]

eh im still upset..

good. i hate u.

[Battle Mage]

i guess i'll pre-in too then!