Mini 617 - Scottish Mafia, Game Over

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vote: lowell

for being late to the party

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empking - if you're trying to vote, you need to put

vote: erratus apathos

and not just his name.

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i love the pace of this game.

the number slip I see as a null tell. however, erratus' reaction to being wagoned over it is not, and his votes for massive and dcorbe were both pretty scummy. the former seemed like a crap attempt to start a wagon and the latter was omgus.

cephrir and lowell are making a little uneasy about the wagon on him though, both of their votes seemed opportunistic.

q21 seems to be chainsaw defending erratus with the attacks on dcorbe

vote: erratus

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ebwop

need to

unvote, vote: erratus

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its not the amount of discussion which warrants my vote, its the content of the discussion

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dcorbe, next time you say that nobody is trying to lynch the guy who's been wagoned to lynch-2, go dunk your head in cold water and realign your conceptions of reality. i for one never vote for someone outside of random voting that I don't want to see lynched.

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unvote

i'm trying to decide if that replacement request is a towntell or a scumtell. i've never been replaced so i have no frame of reference.

in the meantime i'm not going to lynch the empty player slot

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i'm still in support oF a lynch of erratus/replacement at this point, but its unsportsmanlike to lynch the replacement before he even arrives. perhaps he can be more civil and give us a new perspective.

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i believe lowell is right about erratus' quit being a scumtell.

and that we should just lynch him instead of making some poor replacement read up and then get lynched.

vote: erratus apathos

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actually i think we may still be one short, but i'm sure with all the erratus hate from the people who have been afraid to vote there's a hammer waiting to fall.

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kuribo and cybele both seem particularly primed and ready to be voting for erratus right now.

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given that so far everything on this page is about how erratus needs to be hammered, i think its safe to say that at the very least {lowell, dcorbe, myself} would like you to hammer.

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i think that both q21 and empking have some splaining to do. i agree with lowell/cephrir re: empking, and yesterday q21 was chainsaw defending erratus by going after dcorbe for the erratus wagon.

i don't see the case against cybele. massive is right i think about what cybele-scum would have done in the situation he was in, versus what cybele actually did.

vote: empking

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well i am loving my empking vote.

i'm in agreement with the people who have said that q21 is looking good in this most recent exchange with dcorbe, but i have a hard time believing that dcorbe was bussing erratus. he tried too hard to get him lynched. the only thing that makes it a possibility is the late switch to q21 when the erratus wagon was still steaming along.

i can't entirely discount the chainsaw defense from q (which is, indeed, defending somebody by the act of attacking their attacker, and which from what i've seen and read is a very reliable scum indicator when the person being defended flips scum), but for now he's not so high on my radar anymore.

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unvote, vote: q21

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have you read any of what i've posted today? cause anyone paying attention to the things i've been saying should not be surprised at all by that move.

i've already stated quite succinctly why i thought q21 would be an equally good person to lynch as empking was. given that empking is now an uncounterclaimed cop, a q21 lynch has become leagues better.

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yes. so q was still second to empking on my list. then empking claimed cop. so i switched my vote to q. its simple, really.

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i'm glad everyone is thinking about some day agreeing with me, but it would nice if it happened this century guys.

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sigh. seriously, can nobody go back and read what i wrote about q21 when the empking wagon was going on?

long story short, q21 engaged in something that i've seen called "the chainsaw defense" on behalf of erratus. that is, he defended erratus not by trying to argue against the points that were made in favor of erratus being scum, but by attacking erratus' most vocal attacker, dcorbe. if empking is truly the cop, then we have a further point against q21 in the fact that dcorbe is cop-confirmed innocent.

i'm pretty uneasy about this whole kuribo wagon.

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I don't necessarily think dcorbe is scum, I just think he's scummier than q21. I think I exhausted all my dcorbe thoughts at the beginning of the day, in particular [159]. That post not only contains what I thought was scummy about dcorbe's actions, but also the reason I don't think he's scum.

See, the main reason I don't think he's scum is because the uncounterclaimed cop said he's not. If it later turns out that Empking is lying, I'm perfectly willing to revisit the issue.

qft. neither empking nor dcorbe are legitimate choices today.

The q21 wagon is laaaame.

oh? why's that? you seem to be trying to undermine a wagon without actually presenting any evidence whatsoever that its not perfectly justified.

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ok, what i see here is you saying that you think it looks better than the kuribo wagon, then turning around and calling it "laaaame" and still not presenting any kind of alternative to these two wagons you don't like.

you disagree with everything going on, but don't have your own opinion to put forward. it looks to me like you're scum and one of two things is happening:

A) your scumbuddy is on the chopping block and you don't want to help lynch him
B) you know we're on the road to lynching town, and want the brownie points that come with having been opposed to a townie lynch.

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@q21: the case was not irrational or invalid. i think it may have been uncalled for, because i thought erratus was making himself pretty obvious with how upset he was getting over being caught for something he must have considered to be a stupid reason. however, something doesn't have to be irrational or invalid to be coming from scum. the scum are equally capable of putting together strong and well reasoned arguments, and i even agree that, looking back at it, you came out of the exchange with dcorbe looking

smarter

, but still more scummy because of who you were defending and who you were attacking. a strong and well reasoned argument from scum is harder to catch, but the

motivation

for it can still give it away. you were trying to derail the erratus wagon and put the heat on his primary aggressor, dcorbe.

@cephrir: the crux of the point i just made against you is that you're sitting on the sidelines doing nothing, which is what you're still doing, and which is exactly what i would expect the scum to be doing in this situation. you also just threw more crap on q, but again without dirtying your hands with something like a vote.

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Reading Roflcopter's last post I don't think he's scum but I wouldn't want a q21 lynch.

who would you want to lynch? this day isn't going to go anywhere if all people do is naysay the wagon that is happening without providing alternatives.

I was going to reread both massive and [coheed], actually.

i'm intrigued. tell me more.

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i find it very, very unlikely that kuribo was bussing erratus. i agree that the meta is very skewed right now. catching scum does not mean you knew they were scum because you're on their scumteam.

i don't like the attempted kuribo wagon, and if thats the only alternative to the q21 wagon then i am sticking to my guns. i am willing to look at other players (and still interesting hearing what cephrir has to say about coheed/massive), but i've said my piece about q and will be sticking with it unless a really strong alternative case materializes.

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say what happened to the activity in this game?

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guys for serious a kuribo lynch would be incredibly dumb.

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...

...

unvote, vote: kuribo

...? i guess.

i feel pretty stupid.

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has dcorbe been prodded? i feel like he's been missing for a while.

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well, mirth, what i got from reading your post by post (yes i did read it, and will probably comment on some of the details later after re-reading it because it was a big, meaty post) was that you disagree with the way i play this game and that i r dumb. i'm sorry you think so, but i have to disagree with your assessment of q. he was thankfully kind enough to drop a realllllllly scummy line just now to help me back myself up though.

therefore I think you are pretty much cleared,

though there is still the godfather possibility.

bolded to make it more obvious what is so freaking scummy. he's trying to legitimize a future lynch on the person (you, no less) who is

confirmed innocent

by what essentially just became a

mod-confirmed

cop, damage control post from the mod notwithstanding. am i the only one who finds instigating godfather paranoia to be really, really scummy?

also, let me just say this:

340. Rofl says he feels stupid, votes Kuribo (I don’t like this vote)

quote="mirth"]343. Q votes Kuribo for claiming scum (goddamnit, Q, you should know better) [/quote]
kuribo claimed scum, then q and i did literally the exact same thing (voting the guy we thought was obvtown for CLAIMING SCUM), but you say my vote is scummy while he should simply know better.

you. are. biased.

vote: q21

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because of who he was attacking/defending (Hindsight is 20/20.)

this was in re: my q21 vote and case.

and here is the crux of the case, which apparently nobody fucking gets. scum sight is ALSO 20/20. the scum know, in real time, who is scum and who is not. so somebody defending the scum and attacking the townie is not scummy because in my hindsight i see dead scum and living cop confirmed townie, its scummy because at the time they were live scum and live townie and the scum KNEW THAT, and moved to try to CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE WAGON FROM SCUMPARTNER TO NONSCUM. jesus. sorry if i'm a little ticked off by mirth's post by post analysis of my apparently mongoloid intelligence.

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oh, great, should we just lynch you then and get it over with if you're encouraging further godfather paranoia

yourself

? don't be ridiculous.

if you look at the two kuribo votes in isolation (mine and q's), without your view tinted by the mountains of craplogic you've labeled the rest of my participation in this game, do you still see such an astounding difference?

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Just got the reply.

I got no result.

Yeah... I knew there was something I forgot to do before I opened the thread.

the above would indicate we're up against a mafia roleblocker.

q and the godmother herself, mirth, would have us believe that a godfather could also be in the cards. i call shenanigans. mirth seems to have some kind of crazy complex where she just can't live with herself if she's really confirmed innocent. q is just instigating godfather paranoia because its hugely beneficial as scum.

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No, but I'm not going to look at them in isolation. Because that wouldn't be playing the game. You could lynch me if you think I'm scum. I don't care.

i don't think you're scum and i don't want to lynch you because that would be retarded, much like kuribo's self-destruct (which you were so merciful as to pardon), but i would like you to stop being intentionally dense and start playing the role you've replaced into, that of the confirmed innocent.

based on the erratus lynch ALONE kuribo and dcorbe were obviously not scum, even if you think dcorbe was a flaming idiot because of the way he built cases. the very fact that he worked so fucking hard to build the case clears him. on top of that our resident masterclass cop has an innocent result on dcorbe which should only be icing on the cake, but your golden boy q still for some hare-brained reason wants you

in the running to be lynched.

WHAT!?

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And now, for something completely different: why is Emp still alive? We have a dead doctor thus scum should have killed him. Yet he's still alive. Why?

Just got the reply.

I got no result.

Yeah... I knew there was something I forgot to do before I opened the thread.

the above would indicate we're up against a mafia roleblocker.

i think this is an easy answer to your question.

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why is it scummy to refuse to rule out any and every possibility?

it is scummy to bring up the possibility of a godfather on the cop innocent because you are trying to take away the town's most potent weapon against the scum, confirmed innocents, which if the town accrues enough of become a literally impossible obstacle for the scum to overcome, by undermining every single cop investigation, past present or future. the people who benefit the most from a town that is paranoid about the possibility of a godfather are the scum themselves.

The bolded bit is so much wifom its laughable. Scum work extremely hard to build cases so that townies get lynched. If anything they have to work harder to paint guilt where there is innocence.

but dcorbe was working hard to paint guilt where there was in fact guilt, at a point in time where if he hadn't been doing so the likelihood of erratus being lynched would be much lower. of course the scum work hard to lynch innocents, but the scum don't work hard to lynch their own fucking scumpartners, which is what "the bolded bit" was saying. i can't believe mirth thinks you are any less of an idiot than the rest of us.

If you hindsight is what you're basing your case on on why were you accusing me of this on day one, when you had no hindsight. What if I was right? I could quite easily have been.

no, sorry. at the time, you were the only person trying to stop the erratus lynch and start a dcorbe wagon in its place. everyone else was all over erratus' case and for good reason. he was mind bogglingly obvious. i called it like i saw it on day one, and then when we had role-reveal confirmation of erratus being scum i pursued you for the transgression.

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When did I keep trying to push the godfather idea? rolfcopter had to go an fish that line out a four paragraph post. And I hadn't mentioned it again until someone he brought it up.

hiding it in a four paragraph post is a great way to plant the seeds of doubt in the town's head without calling a hell of a lot of attention to the fact that you're trying to do so. i "had to go and fish that line out" because it was incredibly scummy, and attention did need to be called to it in particular.

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crap whats going on in this game.

cc09 could be q's scumpartner, though it seems silly for him to bus here, especially starting the wagon himself. i guess busting his own partner like that would be a good way to try and clear himself of any remaining suspicions on him.

the lowell wagon on the other hand is really stupid all around. why are we trying to lynch the only other person here who understands that q21 is scum?

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i take it as fact that we do have two living scum after erratus was caught for saying there were three scum.

i'm keeping my eyes open, don't worry. i don't want to take any of the focus off of my q right now though.

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Say I do get lynched. I will come up town - how would that reflect on you rolfcopter?

poorly, obviously, but that won't happen. good try scum.

Say Lowell gets lynched and comes up scum, how would that reflect on you?

if lowell is lynched as scum, i think it would be fairly obvious he was buddying up to me and probably distancing from you. its pretty apparent that his lynch is the most likely outcome of the day, and has been that way for a while, so its when i would expect lowell-scum to try to throw us off who his remaining partner could be.

honestly though i'd be shocked if lowell flipped scum.

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because i'm convinced q is scum. thus my continuous voting for him.

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i still think a lowell lynch would be a horrible decision.

cc09 is an undesirable alternative to q21 but i can see him as scum much more readily than lowell and i can tell nobody else is getting with me on the q case, so if the issue is choosing between lowell and cc this is where my vote would go.

i really don't like how this has become about choosing between the two of them though.

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there is too much stupid and too little else going on in this thread.

last i checked q21 is still scum and we should be lynching him.

also,

mod: votecount please?

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this is ridiculous. why must so many people totally self-destruct in this game?

i'm going away for a week tomorrow, and won't have any access.

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was out of town just got home today, i'll catch up soon.

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responding to massive:

roflcopter: In [286], you say that, and I quote, "i thought erratus was making himself pretty obvious with how upset he was getting over being caught for something he must have considered to be a stupid reason." You say something similar when you vote for EA, yet in [111] you unvote him when he asks to be replaced, saying you don't know if it's a town tell or a scum tell. Can you speak to why him asking to be replaced (as a potential town tell) overrode his anger at being caught for a stupid reason (as an obvious scum tell)?

i had never before this game seen someone ask to be replaced because of being under intense in-game pressure, so i was confused. after some thought, and being encouraged by several others sticking to the ea wagon, i decided it didn't outweigh the copious evidence that had been marshalled against him.

roflcopter (again): If by virtue of the EA bandwagon, dcorbe and kuribo were "obviously not scum," how was it you came to believe his "claim" as scum during his lynch?

i assumed (obviously naively) that town wouldn't do something so stupid as claiming scum and asking to be lynched. for all of the evidence i believed there was to clear kuribo, hearing from the horse's mouth the scum claim obviously outweighed my own essentially uninformed opinion.

i think lowell's vote for q21 makes it clear that the two of them are not scum together. this is not a situation when bussing makes sense, since if the scum can get any townie to vote for another townie then they win straight away. of course i've been pretty confident for a long time that lowell was town and q21 was scum, but this seals it, and makes me sure that q's parter has to be massive, since as has been pointed out its all but assured that empking's claim is truthful and there is a mafia roleblocker.

vote: q21

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mirth, i wanted to block emp instead of kill him because i thought at some point we might be able to get him lynched. of course, the mod confirming him in thread kind of cocked that up for me. as for killing you instead of emp, its precisely because you were infinitely more useful for town and dangerous for us than the bump-on-a-log empking, and because you were on to me when basically nobody else except q21 was.

by saying town deserved to lose, are you saying scum did not earn the win?

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i was the roleblocker.

and if you/dcorbe died and became confirmed innocent, we might as well have killed emp because it would have at least confirmed that his investigation was correct.

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q i hope there's no hard feelings you played a good game, but i decided that my best strategy was just to be hardheaded and keep hammering away at the same point, and you bore the brunt of that

it worked out in the end, since you ended up being the lynch in lylo. i think i would have been in trouble if i'd actually gotten you lynched any time before that!

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actually i think ea's self destruct is one of the biggest things that worked in our favor

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yes it was, massive did good on that one