Mini 617 - Scottish Mafia, Game Over

[kuribo]

Vote: q21

because a name that short HAS to indicate scum trying to fly under the radar!

[kuribo]

What's with all the voting without any other text?

[kuribo]

I'm just trying to get a pressure wagon going on someone so we can do as you suggested below, rather than simply saying "we should move past the random voting stage now" and doing nothing about it. You've basically just ensured that no wagon will form.

And you've just removed all pressure by stating that it's only for pressure.

TMYK.

[kuribo]

Holy bejesus, there's two people without an avatar? If I was the third guy on your team I'd be really pissed at the both of you for giving away yourselves this early.

How do you know how many players is on a team?

[kuribo]

How do you know how many players is on a team?

Mini normals almost always have three mafia.[/quote]

Not buying it. Everytime I've seen scum slip how many mafia there are, they tried to explain it in a way like you did. (And when they were lynched, they were still scum)

[kuribo]

screwed up my quote tags. but you get the idea

[kuribo]

and even such, "almost always" doesn't give you cause to assume three scum unless you know it to be a fact

[kuribo]

Completed two. Read through too many to count. And yes, I

have

seen games with two families of two, or three mafia and an SK (ask rofl about the latter ) and you know what has this weird tendency to happen in games with two scumgroups? Strangely enough, two people die in the same night! Until there's ACTUAL GOD DAMN EVIDENCE pointing to one of those fairly uncommon setups, there is NO REASON to assume they are likely. Three mafia is so common that it is in fact the default assumption, until proven otherwise.

Seriously would you geniuses lynch someone for saying something like "I think the scumpair is X and Y" after the first mafia lynch? Because that post makes the same bloody assumption I'm getting shitwagoned for.

good work Captain Overreaction

[kuribo]

Also, the fact that you called my post OMGUS when it wasn't even remotely OMGUS makes me think you're trying to make me look scummy when you know I'm not.

Unvote, Vote: Dcorbe

How is he supposed to KNOW you're not?




And also, since you brought up past games, I should point out that in MY experience, 100% of the people that have been called out for knowing how many scum there were in a closed setup have been scum. I'm not saying it's a bulletproof tell--- indeed, the sample size is too small--- but it's been fairly reliable thus far!

But I also combine that with your tendency to jump down peoples' throats in a shower of incomprehensible cursing. How dare we accuse you of being mafia? That's the attitude you give off.

[kuribo]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?

Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.

[kuribo]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?

Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.

I've seen more than a few games get stalled in inanities because people say "oh, it's too soon to...". I don't think a relatively quick pace is a bad thing, as it makes it easier to retain original members and keep everyone engaged.

You're misunderstanding me. I've often gone on record to say that towns are far too timid--- but this doesn't necessarily mean that I'd be comfortable with his lynch right this moment.

Certainly his "slip," and his extreme overreaction to the slightest bit of criticism bears further discussion than just a quicklynch.

[kuribo]

At L-2 he's in no danger of getting lynched any time soon and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.

Stop it. Whenever I see this, I see you saying, "We can push a wagon as far as we want, but don't worry you're in no danger, and if you're lynched, it was an accident."

[kuribo]

If town Kuribo was really 100% certain I was scum, he'd have no reason not to vote me even if he was hammering. And it's not even relevant how close I am to lynch, since when you first brought up your allegedly 100% scumtell I wasn't anywhere near lynch.

Show me where I said I was absolutely certain you were scum, and I'll show you a post that you must have read while high.

FoS: Kuribo, Roflcopter

Don't stop with an FOS, you've already done a Freudian slip and over-reacted in extreme anger! Just vote for me and settle for full-blown OMGUS.

[kuribo]

"100% of the people that have been called out for knowing how many scum there were in a closed setup have been scum."

I also mentioned the small sample size, if you'll recall. I never said that YOU were 100% scum, I said that 100% of the people who made the same mistake in games that I've played were also scum.

[kuribo]

I'm sorry, I simply cannot continue the current conversation using shall we say pleasant language. Please replace me.

:rolleyes:

[kuribo]

See, I think that a guy that finds himself backed into a corner from which he cannot extract himself--- and then asks for a replacement--- is far more likely to be scum.

This is a game where, at its core, we basically argue over who's lying, so to get all irritable just because someone thinks YOU'RE the one lying, maybe mafia isn't the game for you.

[kuribo]

"I have no counter-argument so I quit" is one of my biggest pet peeves on this site.

[kuribo]

I agree somewhat, but then I've always hated "pausing" the game to wait for replacement, especially when one leaves just because they're acting like a baby.

[kuribo]

I'm curious how kuribo called out EA on his scumtell slip but somehow NEVER voted for EA.

vote kuribo

Not only did I call him out on it, but I pointed it out myself and kept up the pressure. I didn't have to do any of that, and it would be a little extreme to be "bussing."


PS- you can meta this if you like, but I was at work when you guys hammered him.

But your lame case against me has been filed in the back of my brain for further review.

[kuribo]

And anyway, assuming three scum at the beginning of a 12 player game is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It doesn't really help anyone much, but it isn't some outrageous assumption that indicates that he

must

know something. Yes, its perfectly possible that it was a scum slip, but it really isn't enough to justify the L-2 wagon on him.

Making excuses for the Slip, I see. Went after dcorbe hardcore because of the wagon against EA.

[kuribo]

Cephrir is going to replace dRool89 for me unless anyone has any objections to him resuurecting into a new body (and role!)

[kuribo]

Right. Now I'm REALLY confused.

Maybe you're disappointed that he came back after you had him NK'd?

[kuribo]

Maybe I am. Also, maybe I saw his post, thought that he'd been killed and then misread the OP... where he is listed as dead... I missed the bit where he's also listed as alive.

Okay, a fair enough explanation.

[kuribo]

kuribo

: Can you please show us where you "kept up the pressure" on EA after calling him out on his slip-up? After an initial exchange with EA about it, I see you then moving on to the q21/dcorbe argument and then saying that you aren't comfortable with how EA got five votes in three days. You say you wouldn't be comfortable with his lynch and that you claim that your "calling out" isn't necessarily even saying he's scum. Even after he asks to be replaced, you state your displeasure and think it a likely scum tell, but still you don't vote.

Post 49, Post 74, 75, 86, 91, 109.

And Empking, your opportunism is noted.

[kuribo]

kuribo

: Can you please show us where you "kept up the pressure" on EA after calling him out on his slip-up? After an initial exchange with EA about it, I see you then moving on to the q21/dcorbe argument and then saying that you aren't comfortable with how EA got five votes in three days. You say you wouldn't be comfortable with his lynch and that you claim that your "calling out" isn't necessarily even saying he's scum. Even after he asks to be replaced, you state your displeasure and think it a likely scum tell, but still you don't vote.

Oh, and as I recall, I several times explained that I didn't think a quicklynch was in order. So you're not going to back me into a corner for my lack of a vote--- I stand by it.

[kuribo]

I'm not saying you promised to vote and then didn't. I'm trying to figure out WHY you never voted. Call it 20/20 hindsight, but thanks to EA being scum, it certainly bears investigation.

But I explained why at the time of not voting, and again a few minutes ago, and you still haven't figured it out for you.

Know what else bears investigation? The people who said that the "Three Scum" thing wasn't a scumtell.

I know this goes into WIFOM territory, but come off it--- if I was scum, there'd be absolutely no reason for me to point out the slip in the first place, nor to keep pushing him about it.

[kuribo]

The three scum thing isn't a scum tell. We got lucky.

Vote: Empking

I've seen enough.

[kuribo]

There was no danger of a quicklynch when you pointed out the scumtell. One (?) person was voting for EA and it was someone who had already, indirectly, pointed out the scumtell. So really you didn't even point it out in the first place. That was dcorbe. (Although he called it "breadcrumming" (sic).)

He gave no indication he was referring to that specific quote until I mentioned it.

[kuribo]

Kuribo seemed strongly in beleif that EA was scummed yet wouldn't vote for him. That has not been disproven.

All the points aren't find and reasonble. The points were based on the town forgetting that the doc got himself killed. Though I've hinted previously.

I'm the cop and Dcorbe was investigated as innocent.

I've not tried to disprove it, I've flat out said I didn't vote for him, and said why. I'm not going to back down from that decision, nor am I going to change my reasoning.

I don't believe you about the cop claim, but just to be on the safe side,

Unvote

[kuribo]

I didn't vote for him because I thought Dcorbe was more likely. Everyone in town isn't one giant hive mind with the same ideas and the same reads. Rereading the thread during the night I now think Dcorbe is innocent. I didn't at the time.


Cephir, I don't understand your point. Sorry.

Actually, that statement kinda does back up his cop claim / dcorbe innocent. Especially considering I don't see anything he could have "reread" at night that would lead him to believe that dcorbe was innocent.

[kuribo]

I don't care whether or not you've tried to disprove it. I care about the fact that your side said you had disproved it.

When did I ever say that I had voted for him? I said that I kept up pressure in questioning him, which I did, evidenced by the curse-laden tirade that he saw fit to direct towards me.

[kuribo]

Don't ask me, it was the "get Empking to claim despite the fact that the Doc decided to get himself killed" side that said it was disproven.

Don't make statements if you don't know why you're making them, your argument is making absolutely no sense.

[kuribo]

And the doc didn't "decide" to get killed, I highly doubt if he said to himself, "you know what, how can I get myself killed?"

[kuribo]

I know why I'm making them. Because your side is lying to try and get me lynched and I don't feel they should be uncontested.

If you're really a cop, then we're on the same side.


Think about it, I'm not the only person who was voting you, and not all of us can possibly be scum.

Stop taking it so personally.

[kuribo]

You know I meant the "get Empking to claim despite the fact that the Doc decided to get himself killed" side

I'm not taking it personally at all. But I'm sure not wanting you and your scum buddies to get away with lies is reason enough for you to pretend I'm just taking it to personal.

I don't have any scum buddies. The only "evidence" you have against me is that I went after you (pure OMGUS) and that I didn't vote against EA (despite basically forcing him into the lynch)

And again, the doc did not DECIDE to get himself killed.

[kuribo]

Which is better than your "He has his own views" and your "he didn't lynch the scum before we had a chance to see bonds."

Is English your first language?

[kuribo]

Also, when did I ever attack someone for not quicklynching the scum?

[kuribo]

Yes it is.. I just really loose my grasp of the language when typing.

You didn't, but personally I don't feel that on day 1 when he's constantly attacked as soon as we leave the random voting stage isn't enough time.

Of course it's not enough time, there's alot that can go down after the random voting stage, people should never be quicklynched immediately following the random vote.

[kuribo]

I meant is enough time.

So you're saying that you disagree that he should have been quicklynched?

[kuribo]

Why would the scum know what I'd claim?

They wouldn't--- that's why your "get Empking to claim" comments make no sense--- they'd have no way of knowing who the doc was last night (not that he decided to get himself killed) nor what your role is. And for that matter, the town had no way of knowing either.

Again, everyone on your bandwagon couldn't have possibly been scum.

[kuribo]

Of course I don't deny those quotes.

But they have nothing to do with me.

And further, not everyone who liked your wagon can possibly be scum.

[kuribo]

I know why I'm making them. Because your side is lying to try and get me lynched and I don't feel they should be uncontested.

You know I meant the "get Empking to claim despite the fact that the Doc decided to get himself killed" side

I'm not taking it personally at all. But I'm sure not wanting you and your scum buddies to get away with lies is reason enough for you to pretend I'm just taking it to personal.

Your arguments make absolutely no sense, Empking.

[kuribo]

We just told you where you said that!

[kuribo]

1) Because they won't answer my points and instead show two (seemingly) random quotes.

2) Show me where I said otherwise.

They aren't random quotes. They are exactly what you asked for--- you said that the people on your bandwagon were scum.

[kuribo]

In every disagreement town take sides.

They're not always on the same side with scum on the other side.

In this argument their are those that wanted me to claim and me. With my side being free of scum while your side is a mix of scum.

If your just going to write nonsense and back yourselves up by pretending its not nonsense there's not much I can do.

YOU ARE MAKING MY HEAD EXPLODE.

[kuribo]

In every disagreement town take sides.
They're not always on the same side with scum on the other side.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU.

In this argument their are those that wanted me to claim and me. With my side being free of scum while your side is a mix of scum.

NO ONE, TOWN OR SCUM COULD HAVE POSSIBLY KNOWN YOU WERE THE COP UNTIL YOU CLAIMED. NEVERMIND THE FACT THAT YOU WERE

ACTING SCUMMY

AND THAT'S HOW YOUR BANDWAGON STARTED!

If your just going to write nonsense and back yourselves up by pretending its not nonsense there's not much I can do.

AAAAAAA! BUT--- YOU--- YOU'RE--- AAAAAAAAAAAA!!! AAAAAAAGHHHH!!!

[kuribo]

Good.

Then we get back to. When did i say everyone on my wagon was scum?

When did I say the scum knew my role?

EXACTLY WHERE WE QUOTED YOU

[kuribo]

You still wanted me to claim. That's all that quote was there to show.

"Claim or die" is a frequent sentiment when putting someone at L-1. It means, "We are going to lynch you unless you claim a power role." And it's said in almost every single game.

[kuribo]

Sigh. Empking, just stop, if you're really a cop, you're distracting from the scum hunting.

[kuribo]

I'm gonna go do a lookover on q21 myself. I have a bad feeling about that guy.

[kuribo]

Vote: q21

Okay, roflcoptor, let's see where this leads.

[kuribo]

kuribo, who voted for him for claiming the three-mafia-tell wasn't a tell;
I also don't put much credence in the "chainsaw defense" theory. I think dcorbe is scummier than q21.

Yes, let's gloss right over the myriad of other reasons Empking was scummy.




So if you think Dcorbe is scum, then you think Empking is lying?

[kuribo]

I don't necessarily think dcorbe is scum, I just think he's scummier than q21. I think I exhausted all my dcorbe thoughts at the beginning of the day, in particular [159]. That post not only contains what I thought was scummy about dcorbe's actions, but also the reason I don't think he's scum.

See, the main reason I don't think he's scum is because the uncounterclaimed cop said he's not. If it later turns out that Empking is lying, I'm perfectly willing to revisit the issue.

[kuribo]

I only find "uncounterclaimed cop" as an indicator of empking's innocence. I believe that his stated result is the result he got. Doesn't change the fact that (a) dcorbe acted scummy on Day One or (b) that my thought process, occurring before empking's Big Reveal, was inaccurate either. But thanks for making it look like I don't believe the cop.

But that's exactly what it sounds like. Cop sanity isn't nearly as huge a consideration in a mini as it would be in a larger game.

[kuribo]

I want a Kuribo lynch and all you have on q21 is that he thought dcorbe was more scummy tha EA.

And what exactly do you have on me?

[kuribo]

I want a Kuribo lynch and all you have on q21 is that he thought dcorbe was more scummy tha EA.

Okay, so let's get this straight. Let's assume that EA and I were scum buddies. You would then also have to assume the following:

1) At a point in time when he had absolutely no heat on him, I pointed out a Freudian slip in which he revealed the number of his scum partners.

2) I continued to keep pressure up on him before anyone else was doing so instead of trying to... you know, get a townie lynched on Day 1.

3) I then proceeded to argue with him in a confrontational manner, forcing him into all sorts of expletives and anger until he finally asked to be replaced.

The "case" against me is stupid and the accusation of bussing is even stupider--- Bussing a scum partner that early day 1 would make absolutely no sense. Bussing him when he has no heat on him makes even less. Bussing him in such a confrontational, out in the open (ie, not quietly through voting) would be like Corky from Life Goes On.

[kuribo]

1) I don't think you could've expected that that would lead to his lynch.

2) I don't think you could've expected his lynch.

3) I don't think you could've expected that.

I hope I never play another game with you again. It's like talking to a brick wall.


Of course I expected his lynch, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF BUILDING A CASE AGAINST HIM.

[kuribo]

No it isn't.

Of course it is, what other point is there to building a case if you're not trying to get someone lynched?

[kuribo]

Well when you're scum it can be used to distance. It can be used to get people out of their comfort zones. It can get people to tell you their opinions. It can be used to see other peoples reactions ect.

And how does getting him lynched early on in day 1 help the scum at all?


Furthermore, why call attention to him in the first place like I did? I didn't have to distance anything--- no one was putting pressure on him.

See, this is why I've always been of the opinion that bussing is overused as a meta--- even if you scum hunt and net yourself a scum, you can still find yourself lynched. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[kuribo]

Mod: Cybele is listed as both not voting and voting dcorbe

MOD EDIT - yeah I fixed that about 4 or 5 mins after I posted it.

[kuribo]

Yes, if getting a scum made you immune from getting lynched, all the scum would be doing it.

Kuribo, you forget Dcorbe was the one to notice the three scum thing, dcorbe was the one who put pressure on EA Dcorbe was the one who drew attention on him.

No he wasn't, he made a passive comment about breadcrumbing and then tried to make it look like he was the one that pointed it out.

[kuribo]

I'll give you a hint, Empking, since you've only been around a couple of months. I'll type in caps so it'll sink in:


SCUM DON'T BREADCRUMB. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE SCUM.

dcorbe made a comment (nonsensical) about scum breadcrumbing, and then (nonsensically) attached it to the scumtell that I picked up on, despite everyone saying that it wasn't a scumtell.

[kuribo]

So do you think that Dcorbe is scum or just town making something up?

That's a dumb question, since you said you cleared him.

I don't think either of those is the case, I think he was wrong. Not making it up intentionally, just incorrect.

[kuribo]

Lowell, I think you and I have vastly different opinions on "nothing."

I'm trying to point out the idiocy of the idea that I bussed EA into his lynch.

Yes, bussing happens, but not every single scum lynch ever is a bus.

[kuribo]

I got the information I wanted from that question and I'm 100% commited to a kuribo lynch.

You haven't even given a reason why you want to see me strung, though.

[kuribo]

So do you think that Dcorbe is scum or just town making something up?

That's a dumb question, since you said you cleared him.

I don't think either of those is the case, I think he was wrong. Not making it up intentionally, just incorrect.

I found the fact that he thinks Dcorbe was just incorrect too absurd.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. And I've read James Patterson books.

You offered me two options: He's either scum, or town making stuff up.

You have an innocent investigation, therefore he's not scum. (Unless you're lying)

It doesn't HAVE to be A) dcorbe's lying town, or B) dcorbe's scum. It can be C) dcorbe is a townie who was wrong about some things. Hell, it could be D) dcorbe has mental disorders, or even E) you're lying.

You are easily the scummiest player in the game. Lucky for you, you're an uncounterclaimed cop.

Empking, I'm tired of arguing with you. You make absolutely no sense, you have no good reason for voting me, and any reasoning you may have will likely be as incoherent as the rest of your posts.

I was majorly responsible for finding scum, and if this town wants to be dumb and lynch me for it, go right ahead. If Empking survives the night, lynch him, and then dcorbe. If Empking is really the cop, then keep an eye on massive, because he just jumped right into a pointless bandwagon.

And before anyone calls this post "emotional," keep in mind that I've spent most of day 2 defending myself from POINTLESS NON-ARGUMENTS THAT BARELY PASS FOR ENGLISH.

[kuribo]

I'm not making plans for the future, I said if you're not the cop, that means you're lying and should be lynched.


I didn't say lynch the cop.

let me spell it out for you:

THERE ARE OTHER EXPLANATIONS FOR DCORBE TO BE WRONG ASIDE FROM HIM BEING SCUM. HE CAN SIMPLY BE WRONG.

YOU MAY NOT BE SCUM, BUT YOU ARE CERTAINLY WRONG.

(and bad at mafia)

[kuribo]

WHERE AM I LYING

[kuribo]

You can't just throw out blanket statements and say that I'm lying without saying what I'm lying about, or even why you suspect me in the first place.

[kuribo]

I was majorly responsible for finding scum, and if this town wants to be dumb and lynch me for it, go right ahead. If Empking survives the night, lynch him, and then dcorbe. If Empking is really the cop, then keep an eye on massive, because he just jumped right into a pointless bandwagon.

There are two things that I'd like you to explain here, kuribo.

1) Can you explain why the town should give you townie points for clarifying dcorbe's pointing out of EA's number-related blunder? And why you think you are "majorly responsible" for EA's lynch despite not actually voting for EA?

2) Can you clarify the second sentence? It seems like you are saying to keep an eye on me because I jumped onto a pointless bandwagon, when in reality I am the one who "started" this "bandwagon."

1) Dcorbe didn't point out the number related blunder, he made a vague statement about breadcrumbing and then quoted my question with "SEE, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY BREADCRUMBING"

2) okay, fine, keep an eye on massive because he's STARTING a stupid bandwagon.

[kuribo]

I'm not making plans for the future, I said if you're not the cop, that means you're lying and should be lynched.
)

Their for instance.

That's not a lie. If you're lying about being a cop, you should be lynched.

[kuribo]

Oh, gee, I'm sorry, "Lynch Empking if he's lying about being a cop," is absolutely the worst play ever.


You won't survive the night--- scum aren't going to let an uncounter-claimed cop live to investigate them. If you do, it's because you're lying about being the cop. If you're lying you should be lynched. IT'S ELEMENTARY.

YOU ARE THE WORST MAFIA PLAYER EVER.


in fact, you know what, if it speeds this game along,

LYNCH ME. I'M SCUM. GET ME OUT OF THIS GAME.

unvote, vote kuribo

DUMBEST TOWN EVER.

[kuribo]

But lynching Dcorbe before seeing what I turned up as?

I never said that, you can't just make things up and then use it as evidence.




also


LYNCH ME, I'M SCUM


WANT ME TO ROLECLAIM TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL:

CLAIM:

MAFIA GOON

[kuribo]

I will say that I'm noticing massive repeatedly ignoring the fact that Empking's arguments are absolutely retarded

Yeah, I bet empking feels mighty clever since I claimed.

(He'll feel less clever come twilight)

[kuribo]

bah, go town etc

[kuribo]

Stupidest town EVER.

I TOLD you guys massive was scum, and that he was just aching to see me lynched, but NOOOO, you guys just had to listen to him and Empking.

I'm glad we lost.

[kuribo]

I don't know why people play this game if all they're going to do is give up.

Because Empking was giving me migraines and I chose to falseclaim scum rather than kill myself in real life.


And also, I was HOPING that some pro-town player or another would look at my bandwagon and the opportunism behind it and figure something out, but by god, the town was determined to Larry Moe and Curly its way right through the game.

[kuribo]

by saying town deserved to lose, are you saying scum did not earn the win?

for the record, I had no clue you were scum.

I think scum earned the win--- they did what scum are supposed to do: When town screws up, scum needs to take advantage, and you guys did it.

[kuribo]

i was the roleblocker.

and if you/dcorbe died and became confirmed innocent, we might as well have killed emp because it would have at least confirmed that his investigation was correct.

I still say you should have just killed Emp. It would have at the very least spared us all the migraine.

Not me, it wouldn't have, and since he let massive railroad me to the end, I hope the rest of the town got plenty of migraines from trying to keep up.

Empking, I feel the need to warn you against making blanket statements such as "You're a liar," and "If X isn't scum, it must be Y."

As you can see now, sometimes pro-town players are mistaken in their beliefs, and sometimes it isn't necessarily X OR Y, but possibly sometimes Z.