Mini 2096: I Don't Remember the Name of This Game

[mastina]

I am pretty sure I'd be enjoying this game if I wasn't a 3P who doesn't know my wincon and thus has no clue if claiming is okay or is a death sentence and who has no clue if I can win with the town or not.

But.

I am a 3P who doesn't know my wincon and thus has no clue if claiming is okay or is a death sentence and who has no clue if I can win with the town or not, so.

[mastina]

Mastina, guess it’s lucky you’re lynchproof today

Wait is that public knowledge? I didn't see it announced.

[mastina]

Mastina, quick, whose your strongest town read, I need to know who to vote.

Uhh...uhh...
Lessee here, who's an oldish player...uhh...
...The Fonz?

[mastina]

Like, I mean, look how well this works. Mastina's strongest town read isn't Gamma Emerald. This is a slam dunk man, apologies.

I mean. It would not surprise me if I am meant to try and kill Gamma.

[mastina]

Unvote, Vote: Cyrus62

This be a fine wagon.

Possibly, but while I might join that wagon, I actually really prefer this one:
VOTE: Menalque.
Pretty sure that he's scum.

[mastina]

To put it another way: Cyrus is beyond just possibly scum and is even perhaps probable scum (even of not probable, is at the very least PLAUSIBLE scum).

Menalque, however, is definitely scum, or pretty damn close.

[mastina]

You make such a compelling case

1st scumbuddy.

ez game

Quite possibly, yeah. Karnage is one of the players far more likely to flip scum, albeit not the absolute most likely.

[mastina]

Fonz
Gamma
Baezu

roster
GreyIce

LUV
Jackal

Cyrus
Dr. Drew
Karnage
Menalque

Something like this. I legit think that the scum are most likely in those bottom four names, tho if there's three scum, I don't think all three are in the bottom. (Basically I think that my bottom four has two scum regardless, but if there's another scum, I doubt that they're also one of my bottom four.)

[mastina]

mastina i didn't sort you due to the fact you cant be lynched today but i haven't ruled you out of being scum . however i like your vote I'm just waiting on the mod to get back to me to add to what your saying cuse i found one of Menalque post in a dead scum pt that matches a post in this game to a t .

If the game related to that PT has finished then you’ll be completely fine with posting.

Mastina would you mind explaining your case on Menalque?

Sure. He's white knighting the weaker players in the game rather than scumhunting.

[mastina]

Fonz
Gamma
Baezu

roster
GreyIce

LUV
Jackal

Cyrus
Dr. Drew
Karnage
Menalque

Something like this. I legit think that the scum are most likely in those bottom four names, tho if there's three scum, I don't think all three are in the bottom. (Basically I think that my bottom four has two scum regardless, but if there's another scum, I doubt that they're also one of my bottom four.)

just a queston why am i scum to you the funny thing as of now we may have 2 of the same scum reads.

See how there's three people below you?

That means that I don't think that you're that likely to be scum. I'd think that the three below you are far more likely. However, if two of them flipped town, then unless I strongly thought you couldn't be scum with the third, I'd begin to suspect that you'd be scum.

That said: two of them flipping scum would hard clear you. And since I suspect exactly that, that two of them will flip scum, you're not my preferred lynch.

I'll Lynch you if need be as a compromise lynch, thanks to the chance you're scum, but I would be dissatisfied with having done so given my strong preference for the other three.

[mastina]

Unvote, Vote: Cyrus62

This be a fine wagon.

Possibly, but while I might join that wagon, I actually really prefer this one:
VOTE: Menalque.
Pretty sure that he's scum.

like honest question here
does lynching scum even advance your win condition
because this kind of informs how i approach u

Who knows, but I townside regardless of my role pm anyway, so.

[mastina]

(To put it another way: I don't see any reason not to scumhunt. Scumhunting may not be necessary, but I don't see any reason not to. So, yes, my reads are, more or less, serious.)

[mastina]

mastina i didn't sort you due to the fact you cant be lynched today but i haven't ruled you out of being scum . however i like your vote I'm just waiting on the mod to get back to me to add to what your saying cuse i found one of Menalque post in a dead scum pt that matches a post in this game to a t .

If the game related to that PT has finished then you’ll be completely fine with posting.

Mastina would you mind explaining your case on Menalque?

Sure. He's white knighting the weaker players in the game rather than scumhunting.

^Talking about Menalque.

[mastina]

dude so was i
but this shit is like dowsing if dowsing actually worked
im convinced beneath the surface of mastina is some sort of Sherlock Holmes personality that knows everything
and dicks with her by doinking up her readslists

So am I. I'm pretty sure that there's a genius in me, but that genius is an absolute dick who's more likely to aide Moriarty than to catch him.

[mastina]

The third party thing was bad and then hopping on me once I declared VLA is also bad

You should be well aware that I don't give a shit about players declaring V/LA. Scum are scum. They don't become any less scum just because they are busy. Their inactivity becomes NAI, but the content of their posts don't magically become less scummy just because they are V/LA. Less content when V/LA is fine. But I am not scumreading you for having less content. I am scumreading you for the nature of what content you HAVE posted, and nothing about being V/LA makes any of that be less applicable.

[mastina]

Yeah I just haven’t found anyone doing anything that scummy yet

I’m thinking prob someone on the baezu wagon but not sure who

You have like 3 options

This plus GreyIce's points are quite valid BTW.

[mastina]

Ok so why does someone just randomly not get to play this game?

thats a question for the moderator and not helpful during the game
after the game ask any questions like that if it's not obvious from the setup
like maybe we find out that the president is actually evil and elements is a good guy
when he shows up to restore our memories after something happens

so it would make sense in context but speculation like that right now is kind of meh

Actually. According to my role pm, the communists are the bad guys, BUT, in spite of them being the bad guys, the president is himself explicitly not a good guy. Flavor wise he's not necessarily evil but is AT THE VERY LEAST shady as fuck himself. So this game COULD be Evil vs. Evil.

Also, on that note: pretty sure that once I get my memories, I'll know who killed Elements. Flavor indicated that I have knowledge there, just not something that I remember.

[mastina]

They involve a lot of fuckery.

Incidentally Mastina hasn't sworn yet IIRC. I think swearing is one of her town tells.

But she's claimed 3P so...

Precisely.
As third parties, I'm never quite in my town meta in spite of explicitly always aiming to townside. I try, but because I am not actually town in spite of legitimate trying to help the town, it shows.

Mind you, I never am in my scum meta as a third party, either, tho people misidentifying my 3p play as my scumplay is quite common.

[mastina]

I low-key feel that Mastina wins if she gets night-killed.

That would be a godsend.

I'm more expecting some kind of troll wincon like Lyncher with a lynch target of the Vice President.

[mastina]

Are they successful?

Depends on who you ask.

[mastina]

Oh cool I think greyICE is actually scum

I remember from my previous account I could never figure him out, he is basically NAI par for the course for me so far this game.

To be completely serious.
I have, mentally, sorted this game into two piles.
There are three players who are, regardless of their alignment, always going to be town no matter what their role PM says.
They will look town no matter what.
Those three players are TheFonz, GreyICE, and rosterfoster.

There are nine players (myself included) who are mislynch bait: regardless of their alignment, they will say scummy shit that gets scumread even if they are town. Thankfully, one of them is the IC, and another is me, leaving only seven of them to sort.

When it comes to the three players who look town regardless, I have been legitimately townreading TheFonz. GreyICE and rosterfoster have been posting things which I townread, but which I know aren't out of their scumranges.

And of the mislynch bait, I townread Baezu in spite of the scummy content. I scumread Menalque, you, and Karnage and have a backup scumread in the form of cyrus.
Thus my readslist.

[mastina]

I really dislike the fact that he called out self-meta as trash when I did it but then not when mastina did it right after

He only needed to do it once.
Also, he knows me well enough to know that I am the ultimate self-metaer...by which, I mean, he knows me well enough to know that I am the ultimate trash.

[mastina]

Ya I guess she prob is third party but she’s been playing very Townie...

I mean. I legit don't know my wincon right now, but lacking any information on how to win, I assume 'can win with the town' until proven otherwise, and then given the assumption that I can win with the town, I am going to default to doing precisely that and do everything in my power to help them.

Plus, 2/3 of the most common wincons I can think of for third parties would in fact be able to win with the town, albeit one being minorly detrimental usually. (Three most likely options are Survivor, Lyncher, or Serial Killer. Obviously wouldn't be able to win if it's SK, but my stance as a SK is to use my role as if it were a vig anyway.)

[mastina]

Third party gambit would be dumb if she's out and out scum and I don't see the point wasting discussion on this.

Why? Esp considering mastina?

Especially considering that I have a proven track record of not lying as nontown?

You're answering your own question, mate.

[mastina]

And of the mislynch bait, I townread Baezu in spite of the scummy content. I scumread Menalque, you, and Karnage and have a backup scumread in the form of cyrus.
Thus my readslist.

The difference between you and I is that there is at least

a chance

that I'm town despite your scum read on me while you are 100% not town.

Third party gambit would be dumb if she's out and out scum and I don't see the point wasting discussion on this.

easy peasy day 2 policy lynch

You know.
I find it no coincidence that two players who previously didn't bat an eye at me. AFTER I expressed a scumread on them. Suddenly are advocating that I should be lynched and my reads ignored. In fact, I am pretty sure that there's even a scumtell named for this tendency. What could it POSSIBLY be?

[mastina]

There are three players who are, regardless of their alignment, always going to be town

Why would town!you ever sort three players into always town this early on D1?

Apparently you need a lesson in reading comprehension if you think that that's what I said.

It's really not that hard to grasp. There are three players who, regardless of their alignment, are going to look like town. They will be logical. They will be reasonable. What they say will make sense. Regardless of their alignment they will find and identify some town and often at least one scum. They will always post things which looks like it comes from a town player.

Yet none of these things are going to ACTUALLY in of themselves tell you that the players are town. It makes you WANT to townread them; it is easy to default to townreading them. But those default townreads are basically relying on random chance of players having a 70% chance of being town. They are not any more accurate than random chance.

In other words: while I default to HOPING that they are town, I know that their scumranges are such that their content isn't beyond their capacities as scum.

In spite of this assessment, I still have a legitimate townread on TheFonz, whereas I have no read one way or another on either GreyIce or roster in spite of me townreading their individual posting.

[mastina]

wanna clarify for me why omgus is a scumtell, mastina?

It's not always a scumtell. There are situations where town can, via burden of proficiency, identify scum that are voting them, knowing that the player voting them SHOULD be town.

Most situations are where the player thinks it should be the above, but are just mistaken, overestimating their townness and/or the competency of the player that they are omgusing.

However. There are cases where OMGUS, instead of coming from town, comes from scum. And these are the cases where a player shows no scumread of a player, or if anything show signs of defending that player, but when that player scumreads them and presents decent reasoning, the scum player realizes that they need to fight back. Arguing that they are town is usually not a good option, so instead, their stance shifts into scumreading the player that they previously were not.

These are cases where the aim of the scum player is not to lynch the player in question, but rather discredit them. Failing that, to convince players that the fight is TvT (well, close enough in this case).

That is the basic difference between town omgus and scum omgus. The aim of town omgus is to lynch the player that they are omgusing on the basis of believing (quite often mistakenly) that the push on them came from scum.

The aim of scum omgus is to save the life of the scum player.

[mastina]

There are three players who, regardless of their alignment, are going to look like town.

I'm assuming I'm in this group which would be totally nonsensical if I wasn't IC

No, you're in the group of players who would, regardless of their alignment, look like scum; if you weren't an IC, I could legit make a scumcase on your lackluster play this game.

[mastina]

I find it no coincidence that two players who previously didn't bat an eye at me. AFTER I expressed a scumread on them. Suddenly are advocating that I should be lynched and my reads ignored. In fact, I am pretty sure that there's even a scumtell named for this tendency. What could it POSSIBLY be?

Not saying your reads should be ignored but I do think you should be lynched at some point. If our roles were reversed, would you want to keep a 3p with an unknown win condition around until endgame?

Considering that I am literally the strongest proponent of being pro third party? Of not fucking them over? Of working with them? To the point where, twice, scum have claimed 3p to take advantage of me when they knew this fact about me, yet in spite of this experience my stance remains unshaken?

Absolutely, yes. I would let them live. Specifically because I know that if the situations were reversed and I the third party, I'd be fucking pissed that I tried to help the town and their response was lynching me.

If you were the third party, wouldn't you WANT the town to work with you so that you could both win?
Since games like this, where I am the third party happen, as town I am incredibly sympathetic to third parties. Heck, I'm even a proponent of letting serial killers who agree to be leashed the chance to live. Specifically because as a serial killer, I myself would accept being leashed.

"Treat others as you want to be treated", basically. So absolutely, yes. Our roles reversed, I'd let you live.

[mastina]

@mastina can you e state your case on Menalque

When not phoneposting, sure. Doesn't take much, just quoting a third of my iso along with quoting a few roster/GreyIce posts.

In the mean time: if you iso me, you get 80% of the case/ triple iso me, Grey, and roster, and you get 100% of the case. The former would take very little time since my iso is quite short. The latter, while more thorough, I can understand why you'd hesitate tho.

[mastina]

okay i have a confession im not sure how much i believe in a wagon with karnage, mastina, and doctor drew on it.
and it does appear that jackal is flaking out based on his last post so yeah luvs vote is meh.
while luv wagon has gamma, fonz... and menalque bringing the most survivalistic vote ive seen in a while. while raw survivalism isn't necessarily scum its pretty fucking scummy the way he did it.

pope gamma, does your holiness think that luv is really the play over menalque here?

I mean. I am convinced that between Ksrnage/Drew/Menalque, there's at least one scum and probably is two.

If Menalque is scum, then either scum bussed or more likely there's scum elsewhere.
If Menalque is town, game's solved; scumteam is Drew+Karnage.

It's for that reason that I think that the lynch is the best: NOT ONLY is it incredibly likely a scum lynch, BUT ALSO, REGARDLESS of the flip, we get a shitload of valuable information.

[mastina]

"Ah iz" town amnesiac, bitches!

Now the question is: who da hell are y'all?

Ah also have some questions 'bout the game, like who da hell is this president that "can't be killed at night"? Is that just flavor or is it a player here? Cuz I don't see no Walter Sinclair on the players list, so it should have gone without saying that they could not be killed anyway!

Hi Almost. The good news is, you don't have to sort my alignment or Gamma's, and as a result only need to sort nine players.

The bad news is the reason why.

[mastina]

Considering that I am literally the strongest proponent of being pro third party? Of not fucking them over? Of working with them? To the point where, twice, scum have claimed 3p to take advantage of me when they knew this fact about me, yet in spite of this experience my stance remains unshaken?

Oh goodie, self-meta from a claimed third party.

You are aware that if you really are third party who doesn't know their win condition there is a good chance you are a serial killer, survivor, lyncher, jester, or other anti-town annoyance that helps out the scumteam. And of course there is a wonderful case where the third party is just scum looking for a cheap claim. Third parties exist to test for vigilantes, and to otherwise lynch.

I am quite aware of the number of third parties I could be. With the exception of serial killer, none of them have a wincon mutually exclusive with the town.

Given that there's only one third party which can't win with the town and half a dozen which can, I am quite willing to take the risk of not being the one. And given that statistical odd of being able to win with the town, I will try my damnedest to do exactly that.

Plus. If I catch scum who wouldn't have been caught without my help. I figure that increases the odds that the town will let me win. Like, if I can spearhead a D1 scum lynch, assuming that there's only one scum left in the game, the town could afford to let virtually any 3p wincon be fulfilled.

So I actually have a shitload of incentive to scumhunt and scumhunt well. It's the best chance I have of the town working with me.

[mastina]

I mean. I am convinced that between Ksrnage/Drew/Menalque, there's at least one scum and probably is two.

If Menalque is scum, then either scum bussed or more likely there's scum elsewhere.
If Menalque is town, game's solved; scumteam is Drew+Karnage.

It's for that reason that I think that the lynch is the best: NOT ONLY is it incredibly likely a scum lynch, BUT ALSO, REGARDLESS of the flip, we get a shitload of valuable information.

"then either scum bussed or more likely there's scum elsewhere." way to go out on a limb lol

Do you KNOW there are only 2 scum or are you making an assumption based on the number of players in the game?

When I originally thought that this game started as a 12 player game, I thought that it was possible that there were three scum.

But then it was pointed out that the death of Elements wasn't just a flavor kill: Elements, flipped scum, signed up for this game as a player. Given that, there won't be three scum alive, since that'd have made the game be 4:1:8. 3:1:8, I can see as a setup; 4:1:8 I cannot.

So, technically speaking, no, I don't KNOW that there's only two groupscum, but it seems like the stupidly obvious conclusion to reach given what we know.

[mastina]

@mastina, serious question: how has working with 3p player's worked out in general for you? does this generally lead to a town win or does it backfire on town? I don't have a lot of experience with 3p in games

Difficult question to answer, given that it requires:
1: the game must possess third parties; most games (like, probably 80-90%) do not have them.
2: the third parties must claim; most third parties do not. The REASON why most third parties don't claim is because…
3: site meta (which I strongly disagree with) is to o n policy lynch third party claims; for me to have an answer, this needs to have not happened.

So my sample size is very small, like 1-3 games where the town worked with the third party that claimed.

That said? Each of those times? It worked INCREDIBLY well. I won't lie; it wasn't perfect. For instance, one example had the hiccup of a third party scumreading town and town reading scum--but that wasn't the fault of them being third party; that was the fault of them being an incompetent scumhunter, something which would've happened to them if they were town. (And to put that in the context of this game? I'd expect to lose if, say, the scumteam was TheFonz+Baezu.)

[mastina]

I also just realized that Mastina knew she was 3p.

Nvm, I iz dummy.

Knows that I am third party, yep, but has no fucking clue what said 3p wincon s. To be honest if it IS a wincon mutually exclusive with the town's, then I'll just write the game off as utter bullshit (how the fuck is an antitown 3p meant to win when they start the game not knowing that they are an antitown 3p? It's literally impossible to set up a winning gameplan without knowing what you need to do to win) and call the game a win if the town wins.
But, odds are statistically in my favor for me being able to win with the town anyway.

[mastina]

At least I hope you agree that if someone ever claims 3P as the result of a wagon, the only possibility is a justice hammer of death.

God whatever, I so don't care about you and your unlynchability. There could not be anything less relevant. I wish to hear from our replacement, a little more from Uzi and Baezu, and hopefully some more guidance from Pope Gamma.

I want to say yes, I would lynch them on the spot, but not gonna lie: while it is INCREDIBLY unlikely to happen, there is EXACTLY one scenario where I would let them live.

That would be IF--and I need to stress that this is a big gigantic IF--I believed that they always were planning on claiming but had the misfortune of being coincidentally pressured, I'd probably cut them some slack for what was out of their control.

For instance: say that they were planning on claiming once D3 started, but D3 started while they were unavailable: at work, asleep, etc. Provably not on site. Demonstrably away.
And in that timeframe, players who WEREN'T away from the site ran them up to l-1. They didn't get a chance to claim without pressure.

In that specific scenario, IF I believed them? Sure, I'd let them live. But in all other scenarios, of course I would lynch them. And even then. I'm not going to instantly buy "I was going to claim anyway"; for me to believe it will require DAMN good evidence for why they waited, proof they couldn't be around sooner, etc.

So, in 99.99% of cases, yes I would lynch them. It's only in that specific. 01% where I wouldn't.

[mastina]

Also, especially when the town meta is to put in less effort. "Oh, people think I troll, don't pay attention, and generally suck when I'm town? And I just have to replicate this to get townread? Easy game, easy life."

I can't work out a single piece of logic Menalque has used this game outside of:
- people who scumread him are scum
- viable counterwagons are scum
- he doesn't do shit so we definitely couldn't lynch him, that'd be unfair

Pretty much this, yes.

[mastina]

So the game isn’t bastard but no one pointed out that mastina being lynchproof isn’t connected to her claim, that’s weird

Um.
I told you guys on page one that it was in my role pm? My role pm literally says that I am D1 lynchproof. Yeah, it's a footnote at the bottom, but it's still there. Want me to paraphrase?

[mastina]

I mean. I legit don't know my wincon right now,

Mastina, please try to be less confusing. Like, if I'm to take your claim at face value, the fact you didn't have an explicit win con in your PM is irrelevant. Check the sample town PM. I could swear before a law court that I didn't receive my win con either and I would be telling the truth (the same way Bill Clinton was telling the truth, mind you)

Confusion is an art, and I am the leading scientist in the field.

[mastina]

Hi Almost. The good news is, you don't have to sort my alignment

If you think I would have just accepted your claim without second guessing it you couldn't have been more mistaking. The more talented a player is the less likely I'd take their 1st page claims at face value.

Give me some time, and I'll have a really good response to this post.

[mastina]

I want both Menalque and cyrus to explain how they know their flavor names before I put Menalque @L-1

This is you chance (both of you) to shoot down my theory about the "Traitors", so do your best or eat rope.

flavor name? i know my names cyrus62 and thats about all i know besides every thing else that was stated in post 1 -5 the whole name thing was a joke in it self . you know you get hit in the head and dont remeber nothing.

Yeah, WRONG ANSWER! You're just another Alisae (from Boon's Attack of The Colognes). He tried to communicate with other scum team and I caught him and he tried to wiggle his way out of it like that.

VOTE: Cyrus

You can be my hero baby <3

roster how do we know you good? where were you last night do you remember . because

i can only remember my name

.

Ok Cyrus, here's the deal man, you are starting to ping me like it was the Newbie game we played in. So I want to give you benefit of the doubt here.

Why early on did you say you didn't trust me?

And like I said, I will post the scum PT from that game, but it will be as disappointing as the Mueller Report.

l
because

all i remember is my name

so I'm trying to find who i trust and the only game i know you from is you as scum which you had every one fooled your good at scum so i dont trust you give me some reads to go by who do you think is town and who do you think is scum.

Spoiler:

im not looking at them doc i'm looking at you and roster . however @everyone else this is the way doc plays as scum so yes i am now convinced this is scum doctor.

-Tells me I must have lots of reads
-Proceeds to ‘dodge’ (using his own definition) questions about reads he has.

...Ok.

I feel like I’m always going to instinctively read Cyrus as scum but the hypocrisy is somewhat astounding.

i already sorted every one but 3 players one reason is i cant lynch one . this leaves two the other reason jackeal isnt posting at all this leaves one and i am currently going over the last ones actions and tones so yes i have lookeed in to all the other 11 players and two of them seem to be scummy to me you and doc. now a little wouldnt it be funny if the cop and doctor didnt know they were pr lol. i mean i have

no idea who i am right now besides my name

.

If it was a joke about your user name why'd you have to say it THRICE? (I'm not even bringing up the Vig hunting). You were clearly and persistently trying to get "something" across to "someone".

P.S. Not knowing "who you are" aside from your name confirms you as NOT the president either. You just dug in your own grave.

Cyrus is both ridiculously obviously not a native English speaker and a newbie with almost zero game experience--JUST enough to not be rejected by the mod, but so little that if he had one fewer games to his name, he wouldn't have been permitted to join.

One of these in of itself would've been reason to doubt your theory.

Combine both and, nope. Not a chance in hell it's scum indicative. Cyrus isn't exactly locktown; he could still be scum. But if he's scum, it's in spite of your reasons, not because of them.

But feel free to believe it anyway so long as you vote Menalque first. Right for the wrong reasons about Menalque being scum, is still RIGHT.

[mastina]

Cyrus is completely incoherent, sure, but I think this whole stuff about scumslippijg makes absolutely zero sense.

The whole name thing to me just seems like Cyrus is waffling on about some weird semi-joke that he came up with at the beginning of this game.

Menalque or LUV (in a pinch) seem like way better lynches to me.

This.
Like I said. Cyrus is clearly new; Cyrus's first language is pretty clearly not English. Given both factors, I absolutely don't buy the slip theory.

[mastina]

as i said before i have no flavor name it was me trying to see what others had to say others made a commet to this as well . when i was asking roster about it i wanted to know . how roster was good . the only name i know is cyus62v which we all know

This post feels so incoherent

Yeah, exactly. Incoherent. Incoherency isn't a scumtell, it's usually a towntell. There's always exceptions of course, but in general, given that Cyrus is both new and not a native speaker…coherency would indicate that he has help. Lacking it proves that he is on his own, without anyone who can help him keep a story straight.

[mastina]

Scum playing the pity card.

You said it yourself; you expect Cyrus to be a VI.
Tell me. Do you honestly think that a scum VI is smart enough to play the pity card?

I do not.

Put in a different light: which alignment do you think, when brand new to the game, is going to make an AtE-like self-vote? Do you think that it comes from newbscum or newbtown more often?

In my experience?

…Overwhelmingly. It comes from the newbtown. You know why? Because it is a naturally occurring thought process to newbtown. You can be alienated from said thought process, not understanding how it could exist, but it still DOES.

Usually, yes. Scum can, and do, learn to fake it with time and experience. If Cyrus were an experienced player, I'd think that the move was scum bullshitting AtE to dodge the lynch.

But Cyrus is NOT an experienced player. He is new. Given that newness, I fully believe, balance of probability, that he's town.

Newbscum CAN self-vote like this, not gonna pretend otherwise. So Cyrus isn't locktown.
But the move comes from newbtown FAR more often than newbscum.

[mastina]

Oh cool, Cyrus thinks his best defense is to be lynched.

Lets help him out, friends.

Yeah, that'll work well.

[mastina]

and fyi im dead either way . either by lynch or vig.

There you go again! Where this confidence there is a Vig in play comes from I have no idea!

It comes from being new.

If you haven't seen new players focusing on vigs. You, simply put. Don't play in enough games. It happens a shitload of times. Usually from town albeit not exclusively so.

The reason why it's usually from town is that scum usually keep said musings to the scum pt and have scumbuddies who can educate them, whereas newer town simply don't know any better.

[mastina]

Is the joke that the mod WoTMed another player who had never played a non-newbie, but allowed Cyrus in?

Yes.

Regretfully it doesn’t make Cyrus scum

Nope, his role PM does that.


I'm not unaware that Cyrus has done most of the things that make newbies in general Lynchbait - the poor English that makes him seem unintelligent and which is kinda painful to read, the inconsistency, the self pitying self vote, the vague "you are gonna regret this" threats.


He's still scum because there's no way that was a joke.

And I'll take you up on that bet. As a third party who actually knows what a nontown role pm looks like, though. I feel like I have an unfair advantage.

Since I know what a nontown role pm looks like, I have a really good idea what the scum role pm looks like, and given what I know which you don't?

I'm feeling pretty good about my odds.

[mastina]

UNVOTE:
You've convinced me, mastina

Mastina defends cyrus, so you unvote him?? She also defended Scum!Yume if you remember. Someone (Grey?) was even joking this game about how he would vote her top TR. And Mastina herself acknowledges her town game to be much much weaker than her scum game.

Bottom line: Judge for yourself. If you think him saying this 3 times has anything to do with his English.. sure. If it still falls short of explaining why he said that thrice, and why he is hunting for the Vig (and assuming I am the Vig why he would out me like that) then put your vote back on him.

In short, forget my initial case on cyrus. Ask yourself this: WHAT TOWN PLAYER says "X is the Vig" when asked to give his final reads before he gets lynched. Show me ONE bloody sane townie who had done this before.

Given sufficient time, I could track down, no joke, no exaggeration, two dozen examples of newbtown doing precisely that. Making an in thread call out of who they think is the Vig, on D1, before the existence of one is even established.

It is a thing which happens.

Frankly the fact that you haven't seen it is shocking since it is a ridiculously common occurrence.

[mastina]

All of this is ignoring that it's not a joke, and never was a joke, in any universe at all.

Wanna bet?
I feel like taking a bet here.
Wagering between my experience with newbtown and knowledge of the nontown role pm formatting.

I LIKE my odds.

[mastina]

Put in a different light: which alignment do you think, when brand new to the game, is going to make an AtE-like self-vote? Do you think that it comes from newbscum or newbtown more often?

Subject: Newbie 1668: Welcome to the Mafias (TOWN WIN)

UNVOTE: Snarky
VOTE: Almost

Happy now?

THIS was my FIRST GAME on MafiaScum. It was also the first time I rolled Scum, and overall it was my 3rd Forum Mafia game ever.

So you were saying?

P.S. Feel free to check that whole post. I didn't quote it because.. oh, what the hell?

Spoiler: here it is

Subject: Newbie 1668: Welcome to the Mafias (TOWN WIN)

@Ümläüt: I'm fed up, and my head is aches everytime I try to figure things out, bc there's something clogging my view/line of thoughts and can't seem to figure it out.

I do believe SirCakez is town. Period. Anyone else is on the table from where I stand. I would rather Snarky still. I don't feel right about him, and I cannot explain why nobody else is counter claiming to end this.

That being said, I'll vote whomever you guys agree to lynch; aside from SC. You think I won't vote myself? You're wrong. If a majority agrees to voting me out, so be it. *Shrug* I did offer Snarky the chance to say he jailed me last night, but even that he didn't accept. Yet, he still doesn't feel right about me based on one thing or another.. or maybe nothing but a gut feeling/dislike of my playstyle (which isn't much of a style bc I have not adopted one just yet).

To conclude my posts -that I admit says nothing still- I'm offering you an alternative to what I had offered earlier. Take me first, and when I flip, please consider the 0.01% possibility that Snarky's been playing you all along. The Tracker (if GM's speculation about the setup is spot on) may have nobody cleared just yet and is not too sure which of the two claimed PRs to believe). If that's the case I'm telling them Snarky's the one claiming to be the tracker, so if you come out now it's between you and him.

Alas; maybe I'm delusional... and there's not much I can do about it now. So, if you want me.. you've got me:

UNVOTE: Snarky
VOTE: Almost

Happy now?

I don't need to correct anything that I said. Tell me: did I say that it never came from scum?
…No?
Okay then.
I didn't say it couldn't come from scum.
We've established that.
What DID I say, then?

Maybe fucking reading my post would tell you as much, because if you thought that I said it never comes from newbscum you clearly didn't ACTUALLY read it.

[mastina]

The reason why it's usually from town is that scum usually keep said musings to the scum pt and have scumbuddies who can educate them, whereas newer town simply don't know any better.

News Flash: There has been a theory floating around for the last decade or so that scums are 3 TRAITORS so they share no PT to begin with.

So, in another galaxy.. far far away.. one of those Traitors saw fit to claim 3P. Scum were probably informed their leader was unlynchable on D1, so they both signaled by mentioning they "only remembered their name". How am I doing?

Oh pretty terrible, given that I come from a semiinformed perspective and you do not.

Off of what I know. I have a secret, a bombshell. Which I could drop at any time. I'm just wondering what the best time for the reveal is.

[mastina]

I got a suggestion: We lynch Mastina today. If she flips Scum we lynch her buddies. If she flips 3P we know what she's talking about and we reevaluate.

Sure, it'd stop you from mislynching Cyrus!

[mastina]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I Don't Remember the Name of this Game Role Pm
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:39 pm
From: momo
To: funkybike1, mastina

08/14/2021

Hello

mastina

,

You wake up slowly, feeling only the cold metal around your wrists. You're handcuffed to a chair, and find yourself struggling to see. You know that your should be scared, panicked even, but the only thought in your mind is how comfortable your seat is.

As you try and stand, you realize that you are handcuffed to the chair. Comfortable, but a prison nonetheless. There are other people in this room, but you only recognize one of them. The President.

The President! Walter Sinclair himself is standing in front of you all. He begins to speak of horrible crimes, but his words, while English, might as well be nonsense. What terrorist attack? What does Hong Kong have to do with this? And why is he calling you Secretary?

As he speaks, your mind takes a stranger turn. You know the President's name? You can remember hundreds of random details about his life and his campaign? But when you turn to your own memories, you realize that you have nothing. Who are you? Who are the other people in the room? And why is there a bloody knife strapped to your arm.

You know you definitely aren't a scummy communist, but that knife feels out of place. Whenever you feel it against your skin, you can only think about the anger burning in your heart.

You have no powers right now, but you know that the President isn't telling the full story. There's a

third side

and you think you're on it. Maybe, if your memories return, your powers will as well.

P.S. Since I have no idea what to do with the bloody knife you have with you, I've decided to give it back. By my executive order, I'm making sure you won't get voted away today (D1 Lynchproof). Don't tell anyone about the knife.

-President Sinclair

Please Reply to this role PM with a confirmation, your alignment, your confirmed abilities, and any questions you might have.

My main guesses were serial killer or lyncher, due to the whole 'hatred' and 'knife not to mention publicly' bits, but heck if I know. I posited Survivor, Terrorist who needs to suicide bomber someone specific, even reverse lyncher. Legit have no clue, only guesses.

[mastina]

pft, I KNEW that lynchproof day 1 wasn't "randomly" decided.

I mean.
I told you repeatedly that it was in my role PM and thus wasn't random, so.
Not that hard to know when I literally told you.

[mastina]

Maybe you were a usurper-style townie who needed a specific person dead to win? Probably Gamma if it worked like that.

I mean:

I'm more expecting some kind of troll wincon like Lyncher with a lynch target of the Vice President.

I did guess as much.