Mini 624 - Game Over!

[Dark wingstalker]

Firming my con

[Dark wingstalker]

Vote:nhat

What kinda noise is that, A sneeze or what?

[Dark wingstalker]

so.. almost two days without any meaningful posts?? i know its the weekend, but jeez...

[Dark wingstalker]

unvote:Nhat

I think we're done with the random stage.now we start fishing.

[Dark wingstalker]

Well, we'll know for future reference.

anyone got any suspicions floating about? Im suspicious of Imaginality for starting two bandwagons, but i'm classing it as part of the day 1 "reaction test" so, i'm not overly bothered by it.

Its day one, and we have very little, if anything to work with.
Lets move forward.

[Dark wingstalker]

and i would say imaginality just found our first real clue.

So tom, any reason you were promoting a bandwagon?

[Dark wingstalker]

I'd like to ask DWS why he felt it was necessary to unvote when he judged the random voting stage to be over. Just a question.

I played a game of forum mafia where i forgot to unvote from the random voting stage, and then mine was the majority that got the cop lynched day one.

Pretty careful about leaving my votes sticking around on forums after that

[Dark wingstalker]

Just an FYI, another game i'm playing is entering its endgame [lylo, day end friday] and so i'll likely spend any time on the net in the next two days working with that.

I'll be keeping tabs, but dont expect anything particularly well thought out.

Gotta win me the game over there

[Dark wingstalker]

Out of chenhsi and wumbo, wumbo's certainly coming off the scummier.

Its day one however, I cant say that lurking because there isnt anything to talk about is really a great offence. But he's coming off scummy, so chances are i'll vote if he doesnt come up with a decent defence in the next say.. 12 hours or so.

[Dark wingstalker]

that was NOT a decent defence.

Vote:Wumbo

[Dark wingstalker]

I'd like to believe you wumbo, really i would. But your posts are getting less and less cohesive.

to me, it sounds something like "I dont care if i die, BUT I DONT WANT TO, PLEASE DONT KILL ME".

and if you are a vanilla townie, why claim it so damn early?

[Dark wingstalker]

I dont have a clue what L-1 means??

[Dark wingstalker]

Lynch minus one. That means that, unless somebody unvotes, the next vote on that person kills him or her.

Oh, always wondered what that meant. Well, I wasn't counting when I voted, my mistake.

I see its at l-1 again, and i'm not 100% sure wumbo is scum, i just wanted to rattle his cage abit, so

unvote

[Dark wingstalker]

Well, it was 7 to lynch, and i thought mine was the fifth vote. People were voting both Chenhsi and Wumbo, and I thought wumbo looked scummier. I didnt think he was scum, so I thought it would get him to talk more, without having to hang him.

Then i unvoted when i realised that a member of the mafia could hammer his bandwagon easily, Which they didnt do. So if/when you lynch me and i turn up clean, you should look at the people already on Wumbo's bandwagon.

I'd notch it up to forum inexperience, i'm used to play epic mafia, and irc mafia, where its alot easier to keep track of votes. I apolagise, I'll pay more attention in future.

[Dark wingstalker]

I thought it was vote 5, till i was told i was at L-1 which i asked for clarification on what that was.

Then, when i was informed what lynch 1 was, i unvoted. Time is not a valid defence on Forum Mafia.

[Dark wingstalker]

I meant valid reason.

[Dark wingstalker]

discussion has slowed down, Anyone got any thoughts kicking around?

I'm eager to get a discussion going again, for obvious reasons

[Dark wingstalker]

Ask, and ye shall receive:

In the last sentence above, you make it sound like:

(a) you realised your mistake quickly
(b) you unvoted Wumbo when he was at L-1

This is basically what happened, However, I was unawares what constituted "Claim or die", as where I usually play, on another forums, Claim or dies are being thrown around from about 3 to lynch. and when I was informed what L-1 was, it all clicked into place, and I unvoted.

The timeline suggests otherwise:
You didn't unvote Wumbo until 10 hours after nhat already unvoted Wumbo and challenged you over your vote, by which time 15 hours and 27 posts had gone by since you voted him.

Again, i didnt have computer access, and when I got around to checking the computer and saw what l-1 constitued, I quickly unvoted. Regrettably, I'm an EU player and i work shifts, so sometimes it can be up to 24 hours before i get a chance to sit at a PC.

I hope this answers Imaginalitys claim a little better then my initial post, but i'd be glad to answer any other questions you might have.

[Dark wingstalker]

Check it, someone else voted Wumbo in that time, i noticed we were still at L-1 still. When Geraintm unvoted, Litral voted wumbo to bring it back up to L-1.

Frankly, I posted my Vote, Logged in, Posted my "Whats l-1 mean" and then i unvoted. The only thing i'm really guilty of here is a total and utter lack of common sense.

[Dark wingstalker]

In fact, After some thought, if Litral was FULLY aware of what L-1 is, and it had just been explained to me, then maybe its him we should be putting some pressure on.

Two posts after Geraintm unvotes:

But for now,

vote: Wumbo

by this principle: anyone vanilla townie who has claimed is completely useless to the town, and should be lynched, unless there is a far better candidate. If you disagree with/don't understand my application of this logic, say so, and I'll try to explain in my next more thorough post.

So, He basically brings it back to L-1, and then tells us that even if wumbo is a townie, he should be lynched anyway, because hes useless. I think you guys should take a closer look at litral then me, as it looks like he brought the voting to a boil using my mistake as a smokescreen.

[Dark wingstalker]

oh.

My fucking god, I'm an idiot. I'm going to go and re-read the entire thread. Right now.

[Dark wingstalker]

Okay, All up to date with the thread now. I apolagise for being a dumbass, making mistakes everywhere. I have no real reason, i'm just not paying enough attention i guess.

I also sincerly promise to think before i post, And i withdraw my attack on Litral, as it was misguided. Reading the thread, even i admit the scummiest person here is me.

[Dark wingstalker]

House, i know what claim or die means, Just that, people tend to throw it around real early. However, Wumbo claimed before "Claim or die" was uttered, he pretty much tossed it out the second someone voted on him, which i thought was remarkably early, and from general experience, a terrible idea, as if he is indeed vanilla, he is narrowing the mafia's possible targets for a powerrole.

[Dark wingstalker]

Gonna be away this weekend till sunday.

Sorry for any inconveinience.

[Dark wingstalker]

Is it just me, or is anyone else not buying into Dark wingstalker's oafish antics? He's done jack for town with his meat-headed bumbling, cluttering up the thread with straight garbage. He should have zero excuse for not knowing the vote count, seeing that he has a finished game on this site, so claiming noob is utterly ludicrous. Plus you say that you have experience on other sites, too? You honestly should know better, and nobody wants to hold your hand through this, even though you have cats spoon-feeding you your slip-ups. Get on the ball, man.

I'm not claiming noob, i'm just saying i'm new to the jargon around here, and i'm not massively experienced with forum mafia. Sure i've finished 4-5 games, but skimming over a vote is a mistake based on inexperience.i made ONE mistake.

I gave wumbo twelve hours to defend himself [Check the post times, it was pretty much exact] and he didnt. I chucked a vote on to get him to talk alittle. I'm prone to skim-reading the less interesting mafia threads, and at the time of my post, the game had just left the random voting stage. Re-reading it, I see that you were the initial attacker on me aswell, Jumping to Wumbo's defence.

Certainly Wumbo's inaction after his serious business comment rubbed me the wrong way, and the bandwagon developed from there, but wingstalker, was it really called for to put him at L-1? I played in a game where a townie hammered himself just because, and that was wack. Why risk it? And the "I'm gonna give you 12 hours to respond" ultimatum is lousy for an L-1 vote. In my experience, people who do this can just say that the response was insufficient, knowing good and well that they've decided beforehand to vote for the person. We wanted pressure, you wanted to make an easy lynch.

I didnt want to make an easy lynch. As geraintm said earlier in the thread, Mafia never hammer. Interestingly, since i have re-read this thread, eager not to screw up again, I noticed the when you jumped onto wumbo's wagon, You had less reasoning then i did.

This has been brought into question before, and you dodged it with a line as everyone was too busy grilling me.

Just calling it as I see it. The FoS was to get maxwellhouse talking, and my votes have explanations.

Explanations? No sir, the vote on me had an explaination, the others? well, Geraint sums it up well Here.

Your starting to look alittle shaky there nhat. You've lurked except for when you've been directly attacking someone. You've done less for the town then I have, Not that thats much of an arguement, as its barely 4 pages out of the random voting stage.

Congratulations game, You now have my full and undivided attention. [/url]

[Dark wingstalker]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1144565

Till about a page later.

[Dark wingstalker]

I didnt want to make an easy lynch. As geraintm said earlier in the thread, Mafia never hammer.

if that is how you interpreted it, then that is not what i meant. i meant to say that looking at who hammered to use that to catch scum is not a good way anymore to catch mafia. it is too well known for it to be any use

Thats not how I took it, I merely meant that no mafia would hammer the lynch on Day 1, because on day 2 they would be on the chopping block.

Sure, it happens but when it does it rarely ends well.

[Dark wingstalker]

No, Not that at all.

I hadn't posted, Whereas Wumbo posted multiple times, and had not produced anything of substance during that time.

[Dark wingstalker]

Thats not how I took it, I merely meant that no mafia would hammer the lynch on Day 1, because on day 2 they would be on the chopping block.

Sure, it happens but when it does it rarely ends well.

This contradicts your saying that Mafia never hammer. You're digging a deeper and deeper hole as you post, and you've gone deeper than Wumbo. I would do something about that if I were you.

How so? I said "mafia never hammer" in much the same way Geraint did. Mafia dont, Because its far too obvious a move.

Really, I'm giving you guys everything I have, and all i'm hearing back is "that makes it worse for you." I've told you I find Nhat suspicious, and i've apolagised for not paying proper attention to the thread. I'm not sure what else i can contribute on day 1. Your throwing around alot of high end theory stuff that I cant argue with.

[Dark wingstalker]

to further on my "mafia never hammer" comments:

How so? I said "mafia never hammer" in much the same way Geraint did. Mafia dont, Because its far too obvious a move. That doesnt mean it never happens, but on Day 1 the mafia would be stupid for pushing the hammer themselves, when they could just target a scapegoat.

[Dark wingstalker]

[quote="

Certainly Wumbo's inaction after his serious business comment rubbed me the wrong way, and the bandwagon developed from there, but wingstalker, was it really called for to put him at L-1? I played in a game where a townie hammered himself just because, and that was wack. Why risk it? And the "I'm gonna give you 12 hours to respond" ultimatum is lousy for an L-1 vote. In my experience, people who do this can just say that the response was insufficient, knowing good and well that they've decided beforehand to vote for the person. We wanted pressure, you wanted to make an easy lynch.

I didnt want to make an easy lynch. As geraintm said earlier in the thread, Mafia never hammer. Interestingly, since i have re-read this thread, eager not to screw up again, I noticed the when you jumped onto wumbo's wagon, You had less reasoning then i did.

This has been brought into question before, and you dodged it with a line as everyone was too busy grilling me.

Just calling it as I see it. The FoS was to get maxwellhouse talking, and my votes have explanations.

Explanations? No sir, the vote on me had an explaination, the others? well, Geraint sums it up well Here.

Your starting to look alittle shaky there nhat. You've lurked except for when you've been directly attacking someone. You've done less for the town then I have, Not that thats much of an arguement, as its barely 4 pages out of the random voting stage.
[/quote]

That was from higher on the page.

To summarise: I find Nhat suspicious because, His only posts early in the game were decisive attacks on players, then when he saw he had an advantage with me, He pressed the attack and is tearing into me. His initial 2 votes had very little explaination to them, and frankly, I just find him suspicious, in my gut. FOS's Chenshi, chenshi mainly for the way he is dodging questions recently, and wumbo, now the pressure is off him, he has retreated back to a semi-lurk, coming forth to defend himself when you utter his name.

[Dark wingstalker]

Actually, I really enjoy knitting. Its theraputic. I'd suggest trying it.

I answered that question: I was skim reading, and I didn't pay enough attention to the game.

To further the answer, so as you understand it perfectly: I screwed up, and wasn't paying attention. I didnt disregard it by choice.

[Dark wingstalker]

i really did not say that

In response to that whole post, Apolagies. I misinterpreted your post.

[Dark wingstalker]

Mod, can we get a vote count?

Litral, I think i agree with you about lynching chenshi, hwoever, i'm not going to vote without knowing exactly how many votes are on him this time

I'm sonewhat concerned by the fact he's answering every question with a negative, He has no idea who is scummy, he's not really seen anything thats struck him as odd. Its very evasive.

[Dark wingstalker]

furthermore,he said he was busy when he answered the intial questions from imaginality, and cited that he was too busy for the rest.

Too busy for 2 1 line answers you could type in your sleep? Sounds to me like you were going to use the time to heap the blame on someone else, but didnt quite manage it.

[Dark wingstalker]

Welcome cass.

Also, The case against Chenshi is getting remarkably strong here, Chenshi, Do you have anything else to add? Anything? at all?

[Dark wingstalker]

And thats l-2

If you are gonna claim, now's the time.

Vote: Chenshi

[Dark wingstalker]

As an addition, If you ARE a powerrole, which seems to be what your hinting at. Then whaat exactly do you think lurking and refusing point blank to cooperate even when imaginality was attempting to spoonfeed you answers is going to achieve?

[Dark wingstalker]

Unvote

Damnit chenshi, You just had to be an important powerrole. I do assume you'll inform us if you get any guilty reports, rather then just lurking away in the corner?? You came very very close to getting yourself lynched on day 1, and that woulda screwed that game up for us.

Regarding the case against Litral, I'd far rather lynch someone that was not contributing, Nhat has come foward and started to play alot more, which is good, Especially now he's not trying to hang me from the nearest tree, And cass is a more then able replacement for tom.

This leaves us with our two lurkers, Wumbo, and Chenshi. Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself, and Wumbo is.. well, I dont think he's scum, but i wouldnt trust my gut.

I think the thread is due a re-read before i cast my next vote, but i just this minute got home from a 15 hour shift, and my eyes feel like sandpaper. Tommorow i'll take another go.

[Dark wingstalker]

DWS:

Damnit chenshi, You just had to be an important powerrole. I do assume you'll inform us if you get any guilty reports, rather then just lurking away in the corner?? You came very very close to getting yourself lynched on day 1, and that woulda screwed that game up for us.

Does not sound sincere to me. Also, cop claiming D1 is not much better than getting lynched, in terms of screwing up the game.

I remain hopeful that theres a Doctor in this set up somewhere, and if there is, hopefully he or indeed she, would protect him, Its nowhere near as bad as lynching the cop on day 1.

Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself,

I think this might hint at the scum having a roleblocker, which would make our cop completely useless.

While theres a chance there is a mafia roleblocker, theres also a chance we have

no

cop in the set up. A failure to clear himself, in my mind, is if he says someone is clear, and they are proven to be mafia, then chenshi is in a world of fun.


[quote="cass"
He still wants to lynch lurkers, the safe choice for scum. He is careful not to hop on the Wumbo-wagon yet (well, if you would call my vote a wagon), but perhaps he had not seen that one yet.[/quote]

Why vote wumbo? He's clearly town, just lurking. Point me towards where i specifically said i wanted to lynch town, i just pointed out the two of them were lurking, and contributing less to the game then other players. At no point did i suggest a lynch.

This leaves us with our two lurkers, Wumbo, and Chenshi. Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself, and Wumbo is.. well, I dont think he's scum, but i wouldnt trust my gut.

Man, i'm really trying to stir up that lynch. The top comment was slightly sarcastic, I was irritated that chenshi, someone so useless to the town so far, has become basically, our focal point.

unvote
Vote: DarkWingStalker

[/quote]

[Dark wingstalker]

whoops, my quote just voted myself.

Unvote

Also, the case on litral?? I dont think it really stands up, but i did attack him somewhat during my bandwagon. While i was being attacked, litral brought wumbo to l-2. I'll fig up the post: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 92#1149292

I dont have a great deal else to say on the matter, He's coming off as scummy, but as i've since been proven to be totally new at this sort of thing, I'm not trusting my gut at the moment.

[Dark wingstalker]

Mod, I dont have a vote on Chenshi currently?

[Dark wingstalker]

well okay.

Unvote

[Dark wingstalker]

I'm not weakly defending him?

I already said i thought he was somewhat scummy, but i didnt trust my gut enough to vote on it? Most of your posts seem to be misrepresentation to some degree, and when i responded, you chose to ignore it in your next posts, this tiem attacking litral.

I dont like aggressive players by nature, I find that alot of flailing around tends to get townies lynched before scum, and so i like to spend alot of time sitting back and analysing. I also dislike lurking, which means i often post without alot to say for the first day.

As for weakly defence? Litral is fully backing me as far as i can see, repeatedly stating that he believes me to be town.

[Dark wingstalker]

Im not playing the newbie card, I'm playing the "I'd like more evidence before i vote litral because my gut may not be 100%" card.

[Dark wingstalker]

*sigh* look, I have a list of "people i think are scummy" that comprises most of the game. I need more information to work with.

I stated early on that you jumping on the wumbo wagon while i was being grilled was scummy to me, and that remains scummy to me, but its not scummy enough to warrant a vote.

But i also think Cass, Godot, nhat and Coug are scummy, but i dont have a firm conclusion to vote on yet, so i'm not voting. I only voted on Chenshi because he really was doing nothing for the town. I just want to be sure.

[Dark wingstalker]

you all seem to attack each other for changing your opinions, but thats part of mafia. People examine evidence in new ways, and that prompts you to think of new things.

[Also, i need to stop clicking post before i'm finished with my post.]

[Dark wingstalker]

But i also think Cass, Godot, nhat and Coug are scummy, but i dont have a firm conclusion to vote on yet, so i'm not voting.

Explain your case on each of us.

Nhat, I feel he's scummy because of his earlier play. While i no longer feel he is "as scummy" As before, i didnt like the way his first 4-5 posts were simply attacks at any percieved weakness. Sure, you may argue thats how you play mafia, but thats also how scum play mafia.

Godot seems to be posting just enough to appear "in" the game, but is generally not saying alot. I feel its scummy, but not overly because thats how i'm playing, so he may just be new like me.

Coug appears scummy for the same sort of reasons Nhat is, He's relentlessly pushing attacks. Coug is the least scummy of the 4 for me, and i feel he is probably town, but my gut said he appeared scummy, so i'm keeping an eye on him.

Cass? The continual misrepresentation works against her, as does her dodging of certain questions. I say she is the most scummy, but as i have said, that doesnt mean much as all i have right now are weak suspicions.

[Dark wingstalker]

You know what, i've tried to defend myself to the best of my abilities, and I've tried to put my arguements across. Both have failed.

I'm a normal townie, so if you want to lynch me, it wont cost you anything except a mislynch.

[Dark wingstalker]

Nhat, Godot and cass.

[Dark wingstalker]

I trust house more then Chenshi.

Realistically, how likely is it for there to be two cops??

[Dark wingstalker]

Yeah, i think a Deadline extension is in order.

Still, Looks like chenshi's luck has run out. Interestingly though, why would he make that claim, knowing there was another cop out there? Panic? Poor thinking?

Either way

Unvote

Vote: Chenshi

[Dark wingstalker]

So, Maxwell. Still claiming the cop?

What did you get on your investigation? any guilties?
Anyway, its 2am here, i waited up to see how the day dawned, now i'm gonna get some sleep.

Interested in your explaination though maxwell. If we genuinely have two cops, Maybe our Day 1 mislynch wont be so bad.

[Dark wingstalker]

Well, That hardly seems very fair.

If he's paranoid, Shouldnt we take another day's results from him first, to see if he is sane?

I don't think he's mafia, Because I dont understand why he would chuck himself out on day 1, Maybe a trade of Cop for Scum.

If we do have two cops, even of varying sanities,We should be wary of Mafia powerroles to counteract it, Like roleblockers, or even a godfather. after all, An insane cop is just as useful as a sane cop when hes's worked out he's insane, and so its likely the mafia would of been beefed up to counteract it.

If we do have a doctor [please, DONT claim] i'd suggest whatever happens to me today, you protect maxwell, the only scummy thing i can recall from him is

i have a bad feeling about this now =/ sorry chenhsi. don't be so rude though.

and as such, i believe Maxwell house's claim, Which under normal circumstances would be difficult, seeing as he just fingered me as guilty.

[Dark wingstalker]

Well sure, If thats the way its gotta be, and it'll help the town, I guess you should hang me.

Hold up though, We should look into our death last night aswell, Imaginality, and look at his posts. Someone wanted him dead for some reason or another, and it might help Maxwell's investigation choice for tonight.

[Dark wingstalker]

If Max can investigate himself, Then we have the luxury of Lynching Godot, and then getting a clear picture of max's sanity tommorow.

[Dark wingstalker]

So nice to see you try and start a bandwagon on me, especially considering that you've listed me in your top suspects and not really attacked me at all this game. I'd love to put an OMGUS on you, but that would put you at L-1 and that strikes me as a very scummy thing to do.

mmm, I havent really attacked many of my top suspects, since i came off as an arse attacking Litral and getting my count wrong. This led to bad things

But to be totally honest, i was just referencing Litrals pick, Hence the lack of a vote. It could of been any vote. The main reason for voting me seems to be to verify max's sanity. If he can investigate himself, he can clear me, which is far preferable to me then becoming a corpse, Im just waiting to here if thats possible from maxwell. I'm willing to die for sanity if i have to, But god, i am not a martyr.

[Dark wingstalker]

We could always no lynch?

I hate no lynch's as a rule, But in this scenario 3 things can happen:

A) We lynch me, Its a mislynch, Mafia Nightkill. We have Max's sanity, but are 2 town down, and max is not 100% confirmed.

B) We lynch me, I flip scum, Mafia nightkill, Max investigates himself, and gets his alignment [still needs to determine if he's paranoid or Insane remember] and he is relatively confirmed. Unless me and max are scum, and he's bussing me.

C) We No lynch, Mafia nightkill, Max investigates himself. Max finds out his exact sanity, and his alignment is proved [as he could prove me innocent]. We lose one town for the cost of max's 100% clearance and sanity, and we hope to high hell the doctor [if there is one] survives long enough for us to tie up this game.

D) We lynch another, Mafia nightkill, max investigates himself. Max gets his sanity and his alignment, but we are two townies down [Unless we lynch a mafia of course, But i dont fancy our chances].

Theres a forth solution, In that, Max is scum, and could simply declare himself paranoid, Getting a free mislynch, and not having to defend himself at any point, but his unvote on me, and general demeanour leads me to believe this isnt the case.

Now, the choice is up to you, But I dont much want to die, so i'm gonna take what for me, appears to be the best solution to this, and

vote: No Lynch

[Dark wingstalker]

You know, It really was an honest mistake on day 1

Good luck guys.

[Dark wingstalker]

*shakes fist*