The One That I Cannot Kill [it's FINALLY done]

[RadiantCowbells]

/in

[RadiantCowbells]

hi i'm town

[RadiantCowbells]

but actually i'm town

i highly recommend believing me when i say that

i request dancing of some sort

[RadiantCowbells]

So I kinda forgot the game was happening, but I've played this setup a couple times in sitechat before, (and modded them, too) and usually it doesn't matter who gets lynched first, just because if you get town, you get a confirmed townie, and most of the time by the first couple minutes based on who's working with who and so on and so forth. I saw the votecount and it looked like it was him or you. I knew if I voted you I'd either get scum and p much win, or I'd get town and you'd shoot him (killing scum). That's how it goes pretty much every time. So I flipped a coin that would only land heads up.

I get this setup mixed up a lot, though, with SS3 (and also every time I skim this I think townies are perma one-shot lynchproof) which is why I posted like I did at beginning of day 2. I know you know I'm town, cuz if you didn't think I was, you'd have shot me yesterday. Let's lynch RC and win this thing for the homies?

[RadiantCowbells]

how do i convince you that i'm town

[RadiantCowbells]

no i don't

but if you're town i'm going to figure that out and if you're scum this process will sort you for me anyway

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're homiesided then you ain't a townmate of mine

i would consider joining

[RadiantCowbells]

i certainly don't think who is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

who is the scum in this game who tho

[RadiantCowbells]

as in, common noun

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oh god not that

[RadiantCowbells]

as in

what is your read on who is scum between myself and northside who

[RadiantCowbells]

from a moderator point of view i guess

[RadiantCowbells]

how was i acting in yesterday's vengeful

can you draw any explicit parallels

[RadiantCowbells]

fire on the mountain was fine for me at least

baton pass, yikes

[RadiantCowbells]

if i was one of the townies it would have gone very differently

when i replaced in i was sure that one of the scum was scum and scumreading the other heavily and had several townreads on people that weren't already universal trs

[RadiantCowbells]

so what am i supposed to do to remedy that if your reasons are entirely not game related

also NSG why do you keep talking about not this game rather than this game

[RadiantCowbells]

i completely forgot this game had a mechanic

[RadiantCowbells]

that's fair enough i guess

[RadiantCowbells]

i feel like who is in a really shitty situation if he rolled scum here

[RadiantCowbells]

which would, i guess, explain the lack of him actually doing anything.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't think that being complacent and assuming that i'm just going to figure out you're locktown without you showing it to me is a mistake on your part.
right now i'm definitely leaning scum who over scum you but i don't know that and that's something that i'd want to know before i did anything

i would look very ridiculous if i gave scum you a win here after all

[RadiantCowbells]

from my point of view reading people off of the actual game mechanic unless i'm getting lynched and deciding what order for people to vote me is a mistake because i think i can generate reads more reliably off of standard play

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean, i think my lack of having voted and pushed the game forward is more due to the lack of content from both of you than it being a conscious decision on my part. do you think i ought to be more forthright than i have been

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm going to assume your first line was meant to say that it would be a mistake --

that's why i decided against it? or rather, i brought it up specifically because i had considered it as a good strategy but decided against it. if i was going to do it i probably would have just done it and not said anything.

yes that is what i meant. i still think you're town but i'm still hedging long enough to make you post more stuff just in case my gut makes me want to reeval.

[RadiantCowbells]

what i'm saying is

if i'm getting lynched i'm going to have the person that i think is more likely to be scum position themselves to get confscummed trying to vote me and use the game mechanic that way

but otherwise i am making zero effort to sort either yourself or who off of "well this person looks like they are playing around the game mechanics by doing X"

[RadiantCowbells]

what i'm saying is

if i'm getting lynched i'm going to have the person that i think is more likely to be scum position themselves to get confscummed trying to vote me and use the game mechanic that way

but otherwise i am making zero effort to sort either yourself or who off of "well this person looks like they are playing around the game mechanics by doing X"

[RadiantCowbells]

i understand what you're saying

i'm asking how i'm supposed to play around it

[RadiantCowbells]

i understand what you're saying

i'm asking how i'm supposed to play around it

[RadiantCowbells]

because, like i said, i think that i am more reliably able to solve the game through other metrics than that one.

[RadiantCowbells]

because, like i said, i think that i am more reliably able to solve the game through other metrics than that one.

[RadiantCowbells]

who i'm just about ready to vote you right now (or save my vote for after nsgs to play around onewhocannotkill). you have not posted anything that reads as solving and you've just kind of straddled the middle

[RadiantCowbells]

my philosophy as of about a year ago and how it has differed from past philosophies

is i don't use untested reasons to scumread people

i scumread people off of stuff that i have empirically seen be scumtells. i don't decide that certain behaviours are scummy based on out of game principles. it's cost me a few early scumreads but it has made my overall reads far more reliable
i don't actually know exactly what scum in this setup looks like so any read there is going to be untested whereas i have a fairly large body of work that i can use to read you and who off of standard play that has been tested

[RadiantCowbells]

who i'm just about ready to vote you right now (or save my vote for after nsgs to play around onewhocannotkill). you have not posted anything that reads as solving and you've just kind of straddled the middle

This may surprise you, but it turns out that I am shit at scumhunting.

But you should have reads or something? And NSG should be less towny ig

[RadiantCowbells]

but NSG isn't exactly being tested overly hard right now if she's scum

[RadiantCowbells]

do you think me trying to take control of things is alignment indicative

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

what if i tell you it's really not alignment indicative and that's a well known fact, what now

[RadiantCowbells]

but NSG isn't exactly being tested overly hard right now if she's scum

i would say that, if i were scum this game, i would be going for far more of a wisdom-esque playstyle and sticking mostly to making more posts that would probably be one liners

plus a lot of other stuff'd probably be different given having a lynchpin

this doesn't sound like a very effective strategy versus me.

[RadiantCowbells]

:v

what's your read on me, then?

[RadiantCowbells]

:v

what's your read on me, then?

[RadiantCowbells]

i just don't think that's an effective line of reasoning to sort people off of.

[RadiantCowbells]

yes. if you go after the wrong person you still only have a 50% chance of it coming into question and if you go hard against someone early it's fairly easy to say "well I wouldn't have gone after the [one I couldn't kill] like this if I were scum"

[RadiantCowbells]

like it's going to work some of the time. it's not null effectiveness. but is it good enough? I don't think that it is.

[RadiantCowbells]

like it's good enough for a lot of people. i don't think it's good enough for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

i see no point in going into it

[RadiantCowbells]

that doesn't really work

what's stopping us from cross voting

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't get it.

How do we know that we're not just enabling a scum quickhammer

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

so why exactly do you think that i should as town risk an approximately 50% chance of losing the game outright on this gambit

[RadiantCowbells]

heck yeah

[RadiantCowbells]

:thonk:

[RadiantCowbells]

:thonk:

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't see the purpose in trying to force you to take initiative when you've expressed that you aren't sure enough that I'm town to vote Who right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

is scumhunting aided?

i really have no initiative here, NSG.

[RadiantCowbells]

is scumhunting aided?

i really have no initiative here, NSG.

[RadiantCowbells]

i really don't understand what you have been thinking about this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

like i just truly

do not understand why you're so bogged down on this

when i think there's so many easier ways to read people in this game

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean

i just think it's really obvious that i'm townier than who this game. i'm not sure how this line of reasoning helps you see that if you haven't. but i guess i don't have a 1-1 understanding.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

what questions am i supposed to answer

[RadiantCowbells]

Who, if you think RC is scum, do you think it's more likely that he has to lynch you, or me?

I think that it's more likely that he's unable to hammer me. But I think that this difference in probability is not great enough for it to be significant.

based on what evidence do you say this

[RadiantCowbells]

you realize he's allowed to vote you right, just not hammer

[RadiantCowbells]

why doesn't he vote you if his lynchpin is you i don't understand

[RadiantCowbells]

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

what exactly am I supposed to say in response to any of this

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway, going back to before that,

Who, if you think RC is scum, do you think it's more likely that he has to lynch you, or me?

I think that it's more likely that he's unable to hammer me. But I think that this difference in probability is not great enough for it to be significant.

based on what evidence do you say this

I think that the earlygame accusations against me could have been posturing. But as I said, this evidence is too weak to be significant, it is only slightly more likely to be me.

ok but why would i make earlygame accusations against my target as opposed to not my target

[RadiantCowbells]

nsg i'm honestly starting to reach the point regardless of my being spooky RC where the fact that you not townreading me is making me wary of you.

[RadiantCowbells]

honestly? both.

[RadiantCowbells]

i am historically used to you correctly townreading me even when most of the town doesn't, even when I do something really egregiously anti-town.

i guess maybe I remember the whatever that game where kokichi was scums more than the newbie with scioness sajj's more but i think there's a chronological difference

could be wrong

[RadiantCowbells]

that's an awful long time for you to still not have a read on me is what i'm saying. i know what my reads are.

[RadiantCowbells]

actually one i cannot kill is a non-normal mechniac

[RadiantCowbells]

you feel like NSG but something feels cut out, like the general approaches all line up and stuff but it feels like there's a big piece missing. not sure if that makes you scum or alludes to something else.

[RadiantCowbells]

who if you had to vote who do you vote? me?

[RadiantCowbells]

huh. i can empathize with that tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

although i guess that like not having the best reads on me but actually giving it an honest go is still way ahead of most people so that's enough to latch onto ig

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean.

if you are going to end up voting me here i'd rather you just do it and get it over with.

[RadiantCowbells]

like i think straddling the middle which is what who is doing makes complete sense in this situation. he needs to be ready to go on either side and the advantage of hard aligning is relatively nonexistent because his read is barely going to affect ours because of the nature of who he is in a lobby with

[RadiantCowbells]

like, "just waiting and seeing how this engagement pans out and accepting the L if we both end up certain that he's scum and being ready to go if one of us is uncertain on the other" seems like exactly my expectations here.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't have a lot of levers i can press here. i'm surprised that you ended up not townreading me as town, but there's not much I can do to change it.

if you thought that, why not try faking a scumread on me to see if he'd follow along despite his earlier stronger scumread on you?

because you are going to go ballistic on me if I do that.

[RadiantCowbells]

mad? no. scumreading me? yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh now i'm actually cleared from failure to hammer both sides.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh now i'm actually cleared from failure to hammer both sides.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: NSG
Okay so it was you with must not hammer on RC.

why couldn't she be town who read you incorrectly with me as must not hammer on you

[RadiantCowbells]

you're saying you actually still believe that i'm scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Who

can't not vote there sry

[RadiantCowbells]

oddly i never had the 100% feeling of surety that NSG was town that i wanted to have.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, you spent the entire game scumreading me.

[RadiantCowbells]

i imagine being in that situation as who had to have been incredibly painful and i apologize to you for it who

[RadiantCowbells]

nsg can you get on discord for a sec

[RadiantCowbells]

nsg can you get on discord for a sec