Mystery Mafia 2- Game Over! But who won!?

[lord_hur]

/confirm

Vote : FaerieLord

Death to all elves and faeries !

[lord_hur]

What ?!

mnowax, explain yourself.

Vote : mnowax

[lord_hur]

ahh finally another pro-town member. welcome to the power circle.

How do you know he's pro-town? You were wrong with FaerieLord already...

Also, are you pretending you can kill ANY number of players during each day? That's insane.

[lord_hur]

Unvote

4 reasons :

- Although I don't have much experience, I've never come across scum able to kill during the day.

- More importantly, someone with such huge power (unlimited daykills) would be instant win for scum (Kill:town A, Kill:town B, Kill:town C, etc). So I think he's town. His role *only* makes sense as town.

- I can't picture scum bussing this way, a couple posts into the game.

- not unvoting would be akin to suicide, and suiciding, like self-voting, is bad.

[lord_hur]

UNVOTE ME NOW OR YOU WILL BE NEXT!!!

(hehe didn't bold it )

This is not protown, this is nowhere near protown.

Until you're willing to work with the town killing you is the only option.

I don't like his play as well, but that does not mean he's scum. Build a case against him before trying to kill him.

[lord_hur]

that scum obviously has a way to communicate during day.

...

Since the scum have nice roles

Err, I don't follow you on both these :

- How do you know that scum can communicate during the day ?

- Nice roles ? Where did you get this since Alabaska J was a normal Mafia Goon ?

FoS: populartajo

[lord_hur]

Im trying to outguess the mod. Those were just hypothesis that could be tur or be developed as long the game progresses.
I think scum can communicate during day since we know we have new players (new scum included) and that they should have a way to catch up with each other.

I'm not so sure about that. Scum do not really have to communicate during the day to be efficient.

And yes Alabaska was a Goon (so did he lie about his powers, fakeclaim given by the mod?)

I think he was indeed lying, as shows post 37 (which had "fake role claimer panics" all over it in my opinion) and the fact that he was killed anyway.

[lord_hur]

its ok folks. i didn't bold the last one. this one i did. no kill will go thorugh.

Does your role speciafically says you can retract kills ? Because otherwise, I have trouble with the concept of resurrection...

( the funny part is i m all outta knives) shush don'ttell anyone... )

Now you're saying that the number of knives is limited ? Because if they are :

- Why the *hell* did you waste them on arbitrary killing ? You could have worked as a way to give town multiple lynches per day, as Patrick said... I won't really blame you, as 1/2 is hell of a good rating, but still, that's really irrational ;

- I can throw my best argument about your being town right into the bin (though some of it is left : it would still be extremely powerful for scum) ;

- Did you have 2 or 3 knives ? In short, was populartajo actually shot at or not ?

[lord_hur]

Can we have your word that you won't make any more kills without some prior discussion?

[lord_hur]

OK, so that's proof that mnowax can legally retract his kills. mnowax, can we please have your agreement to some level of cooperation?

Wow. I was thinking this was unlikely, as the power would have unpredictable effects depending on the time BM checks the thread.

Seems I was wrong though.

It also means Alabaska J was killed by mistake, as mnowax apparently wanted to retract the kill and would have done so if he hadn't forgotten to bold it.

Does that mean he's been playing with us and was planning to retract it from the start ? Hmm I don't think so, as there are 13 hours between the kill order and the retractation - huge risk of BM coming and hammering him.

mnowax is still pro-town for me.

[lord_hur]

Claim : Miller.

Take that BM.

Claim : Jester.

The mod told me to.

@populartajo : are you saying your role post forces you to make random claims unless you get modkilled ? With what frequency, each page you post in ? every 2 real days ?

[lord_hur]

I don't agree with you on this. Mnowax shouldn't be confirmed Town just because it would be too gutsy of a move to daykill as Mafia. He could have killed his partner as a plan to look towny. Think about it, 1 towny DK, 1 mafia DK, and 1 towny NK tonight. Looks pretty good for the scum.

Two for one, considering the usual scum/town ratios i've seen used, isn't a good enough ratio for scum.

Although it might make sense in case there are more scums than usual, but that would imply that scum roles are vastly inferior to town's. And that wouldn't be the case if mnowax was town (as his powers are far from negligible), so I don't think your reasoning stands.

[lord_hur]

you protested to much to me having sucha huge power for a dayvig, and you gave up instantly, as if you were scum.

DGB just sumbitted to me without any explanation buthe wats to survive. If you are town you win even if you dont survive. scum want to stay alive.

Scum also win if you don't survive. It's true that scum cling more to life than townies (at least, than vanilla townies), but no one, scum or town, would want to suicide. Just think about the reactions self-voters usually get. Standing in front of a truck going at full speed isn't a good idea, whichever your side is.

Also, Nightson unvoted without a reason too, why didn't you attack him as well ? Besides, Nightson was the first to vote you, and you also didn't directly threaten him back then...

[lord_hur]

Your right. It does sound scummy as Hell.

Why do you think it is scummy ?

[lord_hur]

Ok I dont know if I can explain. Ill ask BM first. Mod, can I talk about your confusion?

Well, I'm pretty, from having playing a non-standard role in one of BM's games before, that if he didn't specifically said you can't (it usually says you'll be modkilled if you don't comply) , you can.

BTW, Nightson and lordhur are probably town.

Not sure I like this : quite far-fetched if you ask me, from just a single sentence from us... I mean, it is quite obvious to me that a posting restriction can be given to town or scum, and both sides could have easily come up with what Nightson and I said.

Although this is only a possibility, it could be seen as suspected scum trying to get fast on some townies' good side in case they get in lynch range.

Still not enough for a vote, but I'll renew my FoS on him.

[lord_hur]

Bleh, shouldn't post when I'm half asleep.

EBWOP :

Well, I'm pretty

sure

, from having play

ed

a non-standard role in one of BM's games before, that if he didn't specifically said you can't (it usually says you'll be modkilled if you don't comply), you can.

[lord_hur]

I don't have much time, but I just wanted to say that I read the few last posts and I don't like that wagon.

Yes some of his reasoning was defective, but I didn't get any scummy feeling from Greasy Spot.

Right now, ashmite84 (active lurking, unbacked up vote), Nightson (lurking) or populartajo look like better choices to me.

[lord_hur]

Flick all of ya'll. Go Scum.

vote: Greasy Spot

I was gonna do this earlier this morning but decided to hold off. You spineless people make me sick.

Please. Tell me how this post doesnt make you think this guy is scum.

Mainly because I myself have been tempted once (in another game of course) to self-vote out of sheer frustration, and I was town.

And I can see where he would get his frustration. I know you can't really expect to have very sound reasons day 1, but the reasons used against him are still pretty thin.

So I actually got a town vibe out of his reaction.

That said, switching now looks too late to not risk a no-lynch, so I guess we're stuck with him as a lynch...

[lord_hur]

What are your thoughts?

We still have three days. I'm in a few games with Greasy Spot and he's not known for the kind of scummy reaction he is displaying here.

I will hammer if need be.

What is this "scummy reaction" you are refering to ?

[lord_hur]

Yes, but as town, how many times have you been tempted to self-hammer and say "Go Scum"? If you really are town, and you're cheering for the other team to win, I think you need to take a few months off and come back later on with a fresh perspective.

That time, I could very well have said that, had I posted. All it takes is a really bad day at work. Thankfully, I just went to bed.

That said, I'm not saying that I have standard reactions, only that *I* could have done that as town.

[lord_hur]

Sorry about messing up the quotes on Vel-Rahn-Koon's message.

So what does that mean, lord_hur? Do you think he's town now?

See post 154.

Do you think we should not lynch him?

See end of post 175.

But if enough people settle on someone else and promise to vote before the deadline, I would participate. That could accidentally cause a no-lynch though, so I'm not sure it's a good idea.

[lord_hur]

I am not onboard with any course of action that might cost us our lynch.
Nor am I onboard with any course of action that puts a potential cop or doctor in the noose 30 minutes before deadline.

RUSH-LYNCHES ARE BAD NEWS FOR THE TOWN. I cannot stress this enough.

I must admit I agree with him.

In particular, let's not lynch unless the person gets to claim. It may be obvious, but by saying it, scum won't be able to get away saying "oh sorry, but you see, we were in such a hurry...".

[lord_hur]

I am not onboard with any course of action that might cost us our lynch.
Nor am I onboard with any course of action that puts a potential cop or doctor in the noose 30 minutes before deadline.

RUSH-LYNCHES ARE BAD NEWS FOR THE TOWN. I cannot stress this enough.

I must admit I agree with him.

In particular, let's not lynch unless the person gets to claim. It may be obvious, but by saying it, scum won't be able to get away saying "oh sorry, but you see, we were in such a hurry...".

"Oh sorry, but you see, this is just stupid". Scum are already on this wagon. If by some chance scum are not involved then I don't want to be here anyway.

Well, I was talking about switching to another person. And I'm not as positive as you on the number of scum involved in your wagon. One seems reasonable, but two ? Much less likely taking my previous experience into account.

[lord_hur]

Yes, really looks too late to lynch someone else now.

I'd like to hear populartajo about his last post too. I voted off the first time he said that with no explanation as a brain fart, but two times... explain yourself please.

[lord_hur]

MOD: please prod Nightson, Lord Hur, Vel-Rahn Koon, Patrick

Now the non-voters have two options, not just one.

What are you smoking, Vel-Rahn Koon and I posted like 2 hours ago.

Dasquian's obsession to not try anything is strange indeed, but he does make excellent points.

As much as I don't like populartajo's play, we're stuck with Greasy Spot's lynch.

I think your attempt was good DGB. It only came too late : we should have planned another possible lynch way before. But I guess all the stuff that happened with mnowax prevented us to. Let's not make the same mistake day 2.

See you tomorrow for the last day, I'll be there to hammer if necessary.

[lord_hur]

What are you smoking, Vel-Rahn Koon and I posted like 2 hours ago.

Excellent question!

Do me a favor and lynch this player tomorrow. They are going to kill me tonight.

Hmm... Are you saying you are under a posting restriction when you post this ?

Anyway, noted. If you are indeed town and killed tonight (how do you know?), we will fry her. Or at least I will try to.

[lord_hur]

As I said I would :

Vote : Greasy Spot

Still think he's townie.

[lord_hur]

Hmm the part about the "ferocious beast" makes me think of a werewolf... and it sticks with the fact that the setup is in a forest... Do you think there might be two anti-town forces ?

[lord_hur]

Well, I've done a quick reread and Nightson and ashmite84 still really look like scum hanging back.

As ashmite84 is already at L-2, I will :

Vote : Nightson

[lord_hur]

Anyone know what "Screwball" might mean? I've never heard of such a role before.

Completely beats me. I assume that is an anti-town role since she was in red, but past that...

I can't be sure either that she was of the same group than Alabaska J, because BM usually paints all anti-town roles in red (see elemental mafia : there were 4 anti-town groups + 1 SK, all in red).

And that's not even sure that she was anti-town : maybe that role was to "screw with us" by turning up anti-town while she was in fact town.

I must admit I'm lost here. If anyone has any idea, go ahead.

[lord_hur]

Hey Dasquian, since it seems it's just you and me for now, what do you think of post 254 ?

[lord_hur]

Mafia and werewolves seems most likely; I still don't know where that puts DGB, though.

Hmm that's strange that you say that... if we're assuming mafia+werewolves, how would DGB not be mafia, since (still under this assumption) she would have been eaten by a werewolf ? I kinda doubt there would be 3 anti-town groups for a 12-player game.

[lord_hur]

But this isn't a 12-player game, is it? It's a

rolling

12 player game in which we're going to end up with 20+ players when it's all said and done.

Oh i see. Hmm I'll have to reconsider much of what I thought then.

[lord_hur]

Should we try to get an extension again?

Of course, but knowing BM, we will only get it if we are active enough.

[lord_hur]

I didn't keep quiet on purpose. I haven't had time to properly post, and I'm having the same trouble and drawing assessments like you've given me in

all

my ongoings.

This is true for this last week, but not for the weeks before.

[lord_hur]

Warning : he is now at L-1.

I voted him also to get a reaction out of him, but it seems we ended up getting a solid bandwagon because of the deadline.

I hope he comes back before it, if only for a possible claim.

[lord_hur]

First,

Unvote remussaidow

UNLESS Mnowax is on the gallows. Seriously, have you done anything to benefit the town since you terrorized everyone? I haven't seen a post with any game related substance from except things like "no information" and following other people's opinions. Unless you think that randomly killing two people and luckily happening to hit one of them as scum is "substance." Just as an FYI, the reason I'm not worried about dying from saying all this is because no one who is town aligned would waste a daykill on these observations. So if you do kill me, the rest of the town knows just who they can go ahead and lynch just as fast as possible. There's also the point of you have to have some sort of restriction on it if you're scum, since otherwise you would have won already. Hell, if I were scum with the ability you seemed to have claimed you had, I'd have ended the game in my first post. Scummy day one actions and nothing particularly townish taking place makes me think that you are the scummiest townie that I have EVER seen. However, this statement is including the rare chance that you just can't have had your power as a scum.

Also, Mnowax, if you (unlikely as I think it is) can still daykill people, I think its best if you tell them that you're going to kill them, they claim, and then you can go ahead and kill them as you see fit. Benefits town and all that.

Err I'm kinda lost about this part. First you say you would lynch mnowax, then that he could not logically be scum (using the same argument that I myself used back then, btw).

I think a "WTF?" is in order here, and maybe a FoS unless I misunderstood something.

[lord_hur]

We're all stupid, mnowax. Tell us why.

I'm pretty sure I know what he means. A pretty convenient claim for scum. Good thing for mnowax that there are solid reasons indicating that he is town.

[lord_hur]

And how do explain that he caught scum on first day? How often do you see scum bussing this early? ...Although I must admit it would make sense if we assume several anti-town forces and that he is of that second force...

[lord_hur]

However, you are much chattier than your predecessor, and ashmite hasn't been

Do you somehow think that only people that play in same way replace each other?

[lord_hur]

No, I mean that Nightson was being pilloried for lurking and when he got replaced it proved that he wasn't lurking: he was actually gone. Thus the "Nightson is avoiding attention!" case evaporated as remussaidow replaced in and proved himself to be rather chatty.

Well, on first read (and even after rereading it several times), that's not what I understood from your previous post.

This I do agree on though.

[lord_hur]

A couple hours till deadline, and the only possible lynch is ashmite84. My options are pretty limited. Although I think it is not a bad choice. He's not been playing much, and his last post wasn't so convincing in my opinion.

Only this time, my vote will not be enough to secure a lynch. Still, here it is :

vote : ashmite84

[lord_hur]

Holy s..., NINE days? If we don't count the week-end (low activity), that's one week ><

Doc's gone, but at least there was only one kill.

Hmm if a doctor is killed during the night, is his protection still working for that night? I guess yes, and that would explain why there was only 1 kill...

Or maybe this second kill was the work of the "vengeful vigilante", whatever this exactly is? (doesn't work that well flavor-wise though, vigs use guns no?)

But anyway, we still don't have enough info + this setup looks overly complicated, and scumhunting is more important.

As for me, of all my suspects since the beginning of the game, only Nightson (now remussaidow) is left, and lack of activity didn't work as an argument for ashmite84, plus remussaidow has picked up a lot, even if his attack on mnowax is still not convincing me... Not that good of a lynch candidate right now imho...

Patrick is quite townie in my opinion : didn't disagree with any of his posts, his votes' reasons were a bit light, but mine weren't that much better. His activity is a bit on a light side also, but better than some.

mnowax : remussaidow's arguments made me think, but I still consider him very likely town. Granted, I don't have that much imagination, but given what we saw day 1, I can't think of a role restriction that would allow him not to win immediately.

VRK : no activity for ages, didn't commit himself to *any* vote yet. None of his posts appeared as scummy to me yet (except when he said he would hammer Greasy Spot, and didn't show up to do it), but with this little activity, it's hard to form an opinion.

Kison : nothing yet, except mod said he's a survivor of last game, and in that one he was scum... Wifom I know. But why was he introduced alone ?

Right now, I'm suspecting VRK mainly. He could appear a lot less scummy if only he posted more...

** VEL-RAHN KOON, PLEASE PLAY THE GAME (seriously, it is fast paced and easy to read, you got no excuses) **

[lord_hur]

carp, I'm V/LA with a 9 day deadline. I'll try to post at least once every day, and I'll make all of my posts count.

If you post each day, that's better than most, seriously.

Following our day 2 conversation, can you give me an example of role restriction that would make mnowax's role playable as scum?

[lord_hur]

Hmm I just noticed that Dasquian's death says "dismembered and shotgunned" and not just "shotgunned", which may mean that he was targetted by both scum and "werewolves" (still for lack of a better term)...

[lord_hur]

Note the red, bolded text in the tajo quote. Since someone was so thoughtful as to kill tajo we now know that he was a Day Cop, which tells me that he most likely investigated one or both of {Nightson, Lord_Hur}.

Furthermore, and the most damning evidence against Nightson and L_H is the fact that he is an INSANE Day Cop - cops with sanity issues typically aren't told they are insane or naive or whatnot. Therefore tajo would have no reason to disbelieve any innocent/guilty claims he received from the Mod until a person he investigated turned up dead and had the opposite alignment from what the Mod told him.

Therefore, by him saying that they are probably town, it seems like he was breadcrumbing his role and hinting at an investigation or investigations. However, since he's insane, he most likely has their alignment wrong and they are probably NOT town - they are most probably scum.

There are a couple problems with this theory :

- How often do you see multiple day investigations ? It would be quite overpowering.
- It would be pretty incredible luck for him to nail 2 scum after mnowax already got one...
- If me and remus are scum, this means we have 5 (!) anti-town roles in this game (Alabaska J, DGB, "the werewolf", me and remus) : that's a bit much for 12 players, don't you think ?
- I'm pretty sure populartajo's actual investigation was on DGB :

Can we lynch Greasy and then DGB?

Can we lynch Greasy and then DGB?

What are you smoking, Vel-Rahn Koon and I posted like 2 hours ago.

Excellent question!

Do me a favor and lynch this player tomorrow. They are going to kill me tonight.

In short, Occham's razor make me say that the most obvious possibility (that it was just a hunch) is the right one.

L_H commented on tajo's statement about him and Nightson probably being pro-town in post 130, but it never went any further. Expression of suspicion without following up seems like scum saying "ok cool, he thinks I'm town. I'm not going to push this too far because that's exactly where I want to be". Not as bad to me as Nightson's reactions towards mnowax, but bad enough.

As I said back then, it was not enough for a vote, and I didn't get anything scummy from him after that (only his strange claiming, but that is no indication of scummyness, just a posting restriction from the mod).

Also, he said he believed I was town *before* I expressed suspicion. Were I scum and following your reasoning, I should not have attacked him at all. But I did.


As a side note, I can't help noticing that you made your first vote in this game right after I attacked you for lack of commitment on this point, and your vote on remus while you FoS me looks like a way to attack me without it looking too much like an OMGUS move...

I think this deserves a

FoS : Vel-Rahn Koon

[lord_hur]

@Kison : I have trouble seeing what BM intended to do with this role... do you have any power except your... ability to explode? Do you know what will happen exactly if/when you explode? Will it kill just you or some of us too? Is the timer suspended during the night or do we have to "load you up" in prevision of it?

In short, any info that you think would not help scum would be welcome...

[lord_hur]

I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.

Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...

[lord_hur]

do you have any power except your... ability to explode?

Maybe. Is there any reason why I should specify whether or not I do at this point in time?

As I said, only if you think it would not help scum. If you have nothing to add, so be it. Not understanding things make me uncomfortable (as what is currently happening with this populartajo investigation thing), but it is only a secondary concern, of course.

I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.

Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...

This looks a lot like the backpedaling and flailing we saw out of DGB, Alabaska, and Nightson. Hiding something? Can we vote twice today??? Please!?!?

Giant-Left-Elbow of Suspicion: Lord_Hur

What, because I made an error in my reasoning ? Listen, this is the very first time I have to deal with non-sane cops. Sorry for not being perfect.

The worst part is, as it IS a hunch (I know it because I'm town, even if I also know you have no reason to believe me), remus could actually be scum, and if he does turn up scum, and if people follow your reasoning, I'm going to be lynched tomorrow.

Also, I found another weakness in your reasoning : the exact role BM gave is "insane day cop", which is a combination of "insane cop" and "day cop". Nowhere is it mentioned that he has multiple investigations, and it is at least as important as the other 2 characteristics, so there is no reason BM would have left this piece of description out.

There would be a way to prove this :

@mnowax

: I'm pretty sure that you're town, so can you disclose your exact role name (if you think that wouldn't help scum, of course) or just say if it just is "day vigilante" or on the contrary something containing a hint that you can kill multiple people ?

[lord_hur]

Anyway, based on Hur's reactions to the onslaught of attacks from VRK, I

unvote, vote: Lord_Hur

Because I rather know I'm not scum, and yet cannot deny the points that VRK has made.

Which points ?

[lord_hur]

To be more precise : VRK, I will answer everything that is in your last post, but only after remus says which of its arguments he thinks are worth lynching someone over.

[lord_hur]

I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.

Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...

This looks a lot like the backpedaling and flailing we saw out of DGB, Alabaska, and Nightson. Hiding something? Can we vote twice today??? Please!?!?

Giant-Left-Elbow of Suspicion: Lord_Hur

What, because I made an error in my reasoning ? Listen, this is the very first time I have to deal with non-sane cops. Sorry for not being perfect.

No, not for an error in your reasoning, but that's a nice Argument from Fallacy.

What ? The mistaken assumption being mine in this case, are you saying you're guilty of discarding my whole defense ?

The last part of your post:

Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...

looks like you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar, so to speak, and you're desperately trying to direct our attention elsewhere.

That would have been a very poor distraction attempt. Or maybe it's just what it looks like, an attempt to make sense of the case using the info that I have ? (i.e. that i'm town, thus that the investigation wasn't made when you apparently think it was made, and that the various attacks on DGB by populartajo look so much like cop having investigated scum).

You're proposing some whacko role for DGB which would explain why tajo went after him, but that's a load of crap.

Are you claiming to be DGB's partner, so you know what her role really is ? Because it damned well looks like it. How the hell can you presume what such a vague role name as "Screwball" really is?

You were quoting Occam's Razor in your last post, and then you come up with this convoluted nonsense? Could this be any further from your immediately previous position of "the simplest explanation is often the correct one"?

I did not find a simpler one based on the above-mentioned info that I have.

You've also stated that the role would change when killed, which would do nothing for tajo's investigation since he wouldn't investigate a dead person. Try again.

Now it's your turn to make a mistake in your reasoning, Mr Perfect. If DGB would appear as scum when she dies, she would appear town until then, so populartajo would have a guilty on her. By the way, what I had in mind is that her role doesn't change, she just appears as scum when killed, like a miller.

But again, this is far-fetched. We have no info about her true role. Well, except you maybe.

The worst part is, as it IS a hunch (I know it because I'm town, even if I also know you have no reason to believe me), remus could actually be scum, and if he does turn up scum, and if people follow your reasoning, I'm going to be lynched tomorrow.

STOP!!!!! Dear God In Heaven Above, just STOP! Please. Seriously, I'm getting a headache.

Appeal to Emotion ? Check! Worried about getting killed ? Check! Both Scummy actions? CHECK(mate)!!!! I guess by your logic we should lynch you first then, just so there's no way for Remuss' death to affect you in a negative light. Why are you worried about dying as a townie anyway...

Is your role in this game that of a madman? Because it surely looks like it. Ok, where to begin...

First, appeal to emotion is the single worst scumtell in my opinion. In my experience (fairly limited, I agree), whenever someone used it to get a lynch on someone, the target *always* turned town. Every single time. I even classify this... should I even say argument? in the "bullshit tools that scum use to get townies lynched".

Second, worried to die? Seriously? What are you suggesting, that I immediately self vote? Everyone knows their own role, so everyone wants to live (well usually, see Elemental Mafia for a possible exception). Now if you demonstrated that I so much want to live that I neglected goals that townies would pursue, we would be talking. But barely staying live is a normal worry for everyone.

Also, I found another weakness in your reasoning : the exact role BM gave is "insane day cop", which is a combination of "insane cop" and "day cop". Nowhere is it mentioned that he has multiple investigations, and it is at least as important as the other 2 characteristics, so there is no reason BM would have left this piece of description out.

There would be a way to prove this :

@mnowax

: I'm pretty sure that you're town, so can you disclose your exact role name (if you think that wouldn't help scum, of course) or just say if it just is "day vigilante" or on the contrary something containing a hint that you can kill multiple people ?

This is the saddest thing I've ever seen. You are so desperate to get attention off of yourself that you're actually suggesting that the real role name is not what BM posted in the initial game post? On what Fu%king planet do Mods give full descriptions of the player's role in the role title? Have you ever gotten a role PM that was nothing but the role title because the title said it all? Please say 'Yes'. PLEASE! I DARE you!!!! I Double-Dog Dare you!!!

Maybe, according to you, the role BM should have posted was "Insane Day Cop Who Has A Limited Number Of Investigations"? Or maybe "Insane Day Cop Who Has To Have All His Investigations In By Page 3"?

I've got a role name for you: "Scummy McScummerson This-Is-The-Biggest-Load-Of-Horse-Shit-I've-Ever-Shoveled-Let's-See-If-It-Flies Whackjob".

@mnowax: please confer with the Mod first and make sure you can post your role PM title. If you get Mod killed because of this nonsense I'm gonna be livid.

I'm not going to answer this thoroughly, just read what mnowax disclosed. Thanks, mnowax.

This shows two important things :

1. That his name is indeed not "day vigilante", because it is not a standard role, so it received a custom name by BM. In the *very* same way, there is no reason populartajo's role wouldn't have been customized as well. The only logical conclusion is that he had only one investigation.

2. This perfectly represents VRK's current play : bullshit in CAPITALS and accompanied with !!!!!!! and . But guess what, those who scream louder are not necessarily right. Also, I have done a bit of metagaming on VRK, and it seems like he usually doesn't play like that, so this play is intended.

Also, nice BS about mnowax not being able to post his own role name. Where have you seen a game in which it is not possible? Or maybe you suspected what he was going to say, and did not want him to say it?


Your arguments are so bad, I am not voting you right away only because I want to inspect remus' recent activities first before I place my vote.

[lord_hur]

I highly doubt I'll get lynched today, VRK, and even if I do, you're ******* nuts. I'd love to OMGUS you just to help you look more like an ***, but I'm too goddamned sure you're town.

This scumtell about certainty is almost too obvious, I wouldn't count it if you weren't under pressure.

Also, I give two flips what you think I've done. You're trying to lynch someone who isn't playing the game anymore. Most of what Nightson did to look scummy he did by lurking, and by being pegged by an insane cop (I think you're idea on him voting J is irrelevant, that could be simply how he queued his investigations. But as I said, its still irrelevant.)

Your line of defense asking us to ignore everything your predecessor did is laughable, and I hope I don't have to explain anyone why.

to L_H, sorry that these aren't in any particularly nice order

Appeal to Emotion Shocked ? Check! Worried about getting killed Shocked ? Check! Both Scummy actions? CHECK(mate)!!!! I guess by your logic we should lynch you first then, just so there's no way for Remuss' death to affect you in a negative light. Why are you worried about dying as a townie anyway...


lord_hur wrote:
Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.


Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...


This looks a lot like the backpedaling and flailing we saw out of DGB, Alabaska, and Nightson. Hiding something? Can we vote twice today??? Please!?!?

Giant-Left-Elbow of Suspicion: Lord_Hur

Just as I thought. The only objective argument VRK had (populartajo's double investigation), you couldn't agree with unless you claimed you were scum.

So you based your vote on only those 2 arguments which are :

- of the worst kind (which I think I have proved in my last post)
- developped by someone else, which you have no reason to believe is town (have you?)

Now this is all well and good, but the other target you have in this is Lord_Hur, who has not only responded to your recent flurry of activity, but responded in such a way so that he's protected if I'm lynched first. That's really not a particularly town thing to do.

Nice way to divert attention to someone else. It is obvious bullshit though : what I say cannot change facts. If you're town and lynched today, it will bring down VRK's reasoning about populartajo's investigation, same as if I had said nothing. And it would not protect me from any attack on another ground, by the way, so what's your "protection" exactly? Epic fail.

VRK did mention flailing when he attacked me, and I can't help thinking that's what remus is doing now : desperately trying to bring me to the front so I take the lynch instead of him.

At first, I didn't know what to think about his actual voting on me, really. Was he decieved by VRK's aggressive style so that he did not see that his arguments are crap, or did he not think about it and just sensed a potential wagon he could jump on? But judging by his earlier play, which wasn't on the stupid side, I think the second possibility is the most probable.

I have been pondering between voting for VRK or for remus. But now, if I take into account all my analyzing and :

- the fact that VRK's play and arguments, as much as I don't like them both, have the merit of pressuring people, which is usally quite good for town to get extra info ;

- the fact that VRK has lost each and every of his games as town (7), so his bad arguments could actually be genuine (not the best argument, I know, but I think it counts) ;

You will not be surprised that I feel more comfortable with this :

Vote : remussaidow

[lord_hur]

Well, I think I understand why those three died, except that there are two possible inconsistencies in my reasoning. Maybe you can help me iron them out.

Kison came into the game saying that he needed people to say "Hiroshima" for him to stay alive. Three people obliged : the same that were killed. I think a direct relation can be made.

On the other side, VRK was a radiation suit salesman, which I think was a counter for Kison's powerful role. He tried to make one people say "Nagasaki" (Kison, ironically), but mnowax said it and received a bomob-poof suit, at BM's scene says. The two inconsistencies are these :

- mnowax, despite saying "Nagasaki", was killed anyway;
- VRK, if he was aware of his role, should have immediately known that Kison had the bomb he was the counter to (Nagasaki/Hiroshima ?), but then BM would have thought about it, so VRK was likely only informed partially of his role ; still, he knew that he was town and that the theme of Hiroshima/Nagasaki was likely about bombs, so he should have made the link...


Now, to more pressing matters :

We know that there are two anti-town forces : those who claw/dismember people (werewolf for short), and those who shoot people (mafia).

Since Dasquian was both dismembered and shot night 2, the werewolf was still alive then. And since all 4 people who just died couldn't have been him, the werewolf is still alive now.

So I think a :

Vote : Patrick

is in order.

Patrick is likely to vote me in return, since I'm the only other "survivor".

[lord_hur]

also, Kison was scum? all it says was that he was a bomb but it's colored in red like the other scum are

He was anti-town at least (usually in BM games, all anti-town are painted in red). That said, I think he's mafia, because :

- there are already two anti-town forces ;
- I can't see what his victory condition would be if he was independant.

[lord_hur]

Hmm Patrick... to clarify your claim a bit, in your opinion, which side do you think caused :

- the 2 gun shots
- the 2 gory attacks

Though your vengeful vig theory is interesting and would almost explain your kills if there wasn't this gory kill component, which is incompatible with a vig's gunshot.

I see that you inspected your cover options thoroughly, and also that you didn't rule this one out completely because you are so desperate that even the faintest escape route is worth keeping open.

By the way, you should give up, Patrick. Even if you do get me lynched today, there is no way you can make it to the endgame. That explosion was terrible for town, but it was even worse for you, as I am the only bush left you can hide behind, and you have to bring me down because I know your role.

I wish you could see the big smile I have on my face right now, Patrick.

[lord_hur]

Alternatively, those kills came from DGB then Kison (I'm thinking those guys aren't aligned with Alabaska at least due to rolenames).

This reasoning on rolenames is quite bad : are you saying that only town got those awesome roles, and that scum would be restricted to only standard goons? That would be pretty unbalanced against them, don't you think?

Also, BM said that Kison "had returned for a last kill". This is a pretty strong hint that he was of the same alignment than in the previous game (which was scum).

And finally, there is still no hint of a second scum group. Only one shotgun kill (1 mafia group) and one mauling per night.

Unusual kill flavours for vigs have certainly been used before, but I think it's quite unlikely.

Do you have an example in mind? I must admit I'm pretty new compared to you, and I have never read a game featuring this.

lol, now you're really overdoing it.

Yes, when I reread my post I thought it was pretty strong. But I left it there because it is what I felt.

I want to get you lynched because I think you're scum and lynching you today helps the town more than being lynched myself and only lynching you the following day (and if we're somehow both town, I doubt it matters what order we die in).

You are so very wrong. The order does matter. A lot. Kison had a role very un-werewolf-ish. DGB was killed by a werewolf (so, you). And Alabaska J was a goon for sure. So I think you're a SK. Killing you first will most likely prevent one night kill.

This is why I can die tomorrow, but not today.

[lord_hur]

Sigh. Thanks for not reading what I'm bothering to post. Again, the important today is to get the werewolf.

So you think I'm scum. Fine, but even if you're right, killing me now will not prevent a night kill, while killing him will.

So, kill him now, and kill me tomorrow, or refutate my arguments.

That is all.

[lord_hur]

For obvious reasons I won't comment on any other player alive.

At this exact moment, I am not understanding obvious things at all.



And I'm quite reluctant to oblige someone I don't know anything about. Your two "reasons" are meaning nothing right now (you could be scum if BM just ruled that he won't count scum augmentations).

However, there is one thing that could convince me that at least the mechanics you claim are genuine (for all we know, you could be scum faking a role) : I had a quite similar role in one of BM's previous games, and I think that BM would follow the same role basic pattern. Can anyone tell me if :

Also, if you think you can do something that will increase the number but get mith on you, don't do it.

is, as I think, a way to circumvent a posting restriction ruling that Litral cannot say that people cannot use double posts to increase the counter?

[lord_hur]

Well, sorry about the multiple posts.

After a bit of thinking, I now suspect that your role might be fake. I cannot see it being viable unless there is at least one extra rule about incrementation that you didn't tell us about.

Of course, I am not going to tell you what it is right now. So could you confirm us if there is another such rule? I will explain my reasoning right after.

[lord_hur]

Also, BM said that Kison "had returned for a last kill". This is a pretty strong hint that he was of the same alignment than in the previous game (which was scum).

This is true. Not sure how it's relevant though, since his name appearing in red is an even stronger hint that he was scum.

And finally, there is still no hint of a second scum group. Only one shotgun kill (1 mafia group) and one mauling per night.

You've completely lost me with this. No hint at a second scumgroup? You don't think two kills at night is a hint of a second scumgroup? I'm not sure what you mean by this comment.

Ah, I think we have different definitions of "scum". For me, scum = mafia, and only mafia.

[lord_hur]

I read what you said.

And chose to ignore it completely. I see

Still there's probably no such role as a single lone human bomb (since it'd be very difficult to judge when it would win), so he probably had a partner who was alive.

As you said yourself, there is also the possibility that he was alone *in that part of the game*. But this is of no importance right now.

Instead of saying I didn't read anything you said, you could refute my arguments, since my arguments don't relate to what you said earlier.

You definitely don't read what I write. I said I don't much care about defending myself from being scum :

the only thing I want is to get Patrick killed today so we get one less NK

.

Although your argument about Patrick being useful is of no importance, since he is werewolf. He could have helped town against scum all he wanted, without any consequence. Now if you found any hint of him working against what I claim is his side, we would talk.

And well, might as well be complete in my defense : as someone else said, arguments about anti-town numbers in 7 people are pretty useless, since :

1. more players were introduced day 1 ;
2. there are 18 players total.

[lord_hur]

There is another rule about incrementation, but it's rather loose, so if you just follow what I said it doesn't matter.

Do you claim to be forbidden to tell us about it? As I said, it could help me (and maybe others) much deciding that your claim isn't faked, and if it is what I think it is, I cannot see how it would hurt town.

[lord_hur]

Doesn't mauled imply wolf. So does that me Wolf SK perhaps. Looking at who was still around during this time it looks like if I'm right either Lord Hur or Patrick is the Wolf that ate DGB.

Good, someone seeing the light. Now look how Patrick carefully avoided the werewolf subject, especially when accusing me.

[lord_hur]

In this :

http://mikeburnfire.deviantart.com/art/ ... s-72597749

I found that a vengeful townie is a townie that can kill anyone right after getting lynched.

Vengeful vig might be the same thing with the standard vig nightkilling ability.

[lord_hur]

I caught up to the point of the bomb and stoped. Some interesting things about the 2 survivors came in my read thru.

Lord Hur - post 50 questions pop and I felt rightly so. Post 110 defending Mnowax as a townie. Problem I have is by this post I see no real push to find scum. Defended Pop's claims against GS.

Metagame me, and you'll see I *never* push early day one, because I have high standards for voting, and don't jump on the first bad play (which usually =/= scum play) like some people do. Actually, this is the *very* first game in which I participate in a mislynch (twice, at that), and it was because I was forced to. Yeah I know, that's bad play and all, but I always play like this when town (when scum too, by the way).

Post 154 I think this is the first post on scum suspects and it is lacking.

Mainly because I had no real suspect at this point ? Suspicion about activity isn't the best, but I had nothing else. The only hypothesis I had (Dasquian and especially Mnowax) were about townies.

Post 206 doesn't really add much to what is going on. Where is the pushing for a lynch at this point?

Pushing for a lynch without any real suspicion? Well, if it is how you play, a little amount of metagaming will show you that I never do it.

Post 237 why settle on one person over another. If you feel someone is scummy?

Err, because we were too close to the deadline to switch wagons maybe?

Post 348

If me and remus are scum, this means we have 5 (!) anti-town roles in this game (Alabaska J, DGB, "the werewolf", me and remus) : that's a bit much for 12 players, don't you think ?
- I'm pretty sure populartajo's actual investigation was on DGB

) not true you could be wolf for all anyone knows.

No. I was discussing VRK's hypothesis that populartajo had investigated us two guilty. populartajo was a *cop* which means that he most likely cannot detect werewolves. So I could not be werewolf in this hypothesis.

Post 354 by VKR I agree with this post about LH back peddeling.

Excuse me, but this one got me laughing. What did you want me to do, stick with a reasoning after it is clearly proven wrong?


Overall, I think it was a very bad attack. Not a vote-worthy one (anyway, I can't switch right now), but surely deserving a FoS for weak voting.

FoS : Farside22

[lord_hur]

EBWOP (posting early morning is bad) : The only hypothesis I had (Dasquian and especially Mnowax) were about townies. = The only suspicions I had (Dasquian and especially Mnowax) were about people I believed to be townies.

[lord_hur]

(2) you have not scum hunted in the least this game. So I should just say oh okay so you sat on your thumb and didn't push your thoughts on a townie not being lynched.

What townie are you refering to, just to be sure?

[lord_hur]

Ok, so can you develop this :

So I should just say oh okay so you sat on your thumb and didn't push your thoughts on a townie not being lynched.

Because I do not follow you at all. A couple lines should suffice.

[lord_hur]

Looking at the GS lynched. You stated I believe 3 times that you felt he was townie, but that was the extent of your "attempt" to actual finding someone as not to vote. You just say well I don't think GS is scum. Gee that's nice, why not fight a little harder or point to people you feel are scum. I just see it as someone doing a half ass job and sliding under the radar, which for me = scum.

I gave three players names, and why I suspected them.

[lord_hur]

This list is what you are referening to as scum hunting right?

I don't have much time, but I just wanted to say that I read the few last posts and I don't like that wagon.

Yes some of his reasoning was defective, but I didn't get any scummy feeling from Greasy Spot.

Right now, ashmite84 (active lurking, unbacked up vote), Nightson (lurking) or populartajo look like better choices to me.

I believe there was a day and a 1/2 to really talk more about who was scum and you were like well I'll hammer but I think he's town.

The first thing is another lie. About the second : I had two choices at this point :

- no-lynch
- lynch GS

Do you really suggest that I should have gone against the majority's decision and caused a no-lynch ? (which I could have easily caused *twice* without raising any suspicion, by the way, thanks for raising the matter).

[lord_hur]

I don’t like Lord Hur’s post 175. He is really kind of undercutting the lynch by making it sound like there is no choice, which, in turn, suggests he is trying to reduce his own responsibility for it. He could easily change votes but, instead, he persists in holding a vote that he is clearly unhappy with. This persists in 237, where after considerable time he now even says he doesn’t like tajo’s play but “we're stuck with Greasy Spot's lynch.” He had the capacity to change the lynch, but instead he chose to not take any action.

Changing votes with so many people in 4 days? I did not think it was possible. Plus Dasquian was looking pretty town to me and has said the same thing a couple days before. That said, I could have made a mistake, I agree. I am not used to strict deadlines like this game's.

Hur’s post 337 (his first for D3) is pretty odd. See, he says Nightson (Remus) is the last of his early suspects remaining, but second guesses himself because the previous attacks based on Ashmite’s non-activity had bad results. BUT, then he gets to VRK and says that he doesn’t find any of VRK’s posts scummy, but, nonetheless, he finds VRK most scummy and that he “could appear a lot less scummy if only he posted more.”

What's odd in this? I reread the thread, and found that VRK had not voted a single time... Pretty uncommitting, and as the other leads were pretty thin, I expressed my suspicion.

I do not like Hur’s 348, chiefly the penultimate paragraph where he concocts the idea that VRK FoSes in order to conceal a OMGUS. Not only is that sheer assumption with no basis, but VRK had actually given reasons for suspecting Hur. Thus, it wouldn’t have been OMGUS even if VRK had voted.

Err that's about the only point VRK conceded to me.

Lord Hur also gets a kick from me for this: “The worst part is, as it IS a hunch (I know it because I'm town, even if I also know you have no reason to believe me), remus could actually be scum, and if he does turn up scum, and if people follow your reasoning, I'm going to be lynched tomorrow.” As VRK said, it’s a blatant appeal to emotion AND, moreover, it is totally unacceptable to rely on hunches.

WTF? Seriously? I did not say I was relying on MY hunch, I was just saying I knew that that tajo's sentence was only a hunch because I know my only alignment.

That said, I agree about the appeal to emotion (and also, as I've said before, that it's the single worst argument in my opinion).

He then, in 370, strawmans the fact that he was making an emotional appeal about fear of death by arguing that no player wants to die. This misses the point that Hur was making appeals to his mortality.
He also has this stupid idea that there is a “scumtell about certainty”, which I’ve never heard of and I cannot see the sense in.

This seriously baffles me. You... know that scum know people's alignment from the start (as well as each of them's roles), don't you? For example, shaft.ed got a very specular win (which he posted in that scummy awards thread) with was solely based on a scumtell about certainty. Basically, one scum was assuming one player was town in his reasoning, while he would have had no reason to know that if he were town.

I also don’t like the way he so casually drops his anti-VRK line before voting remus; his reasnos for not pursuing VRK are pretty much meaningless in terms of VRK’s alignment.

I need a translation for this.

I don’t follow why Hur says Patrick is SK and, yet, his whole initial argument was based on a werewolf flavour.

SK = lone killer. He can be using knives, guns or claws (and be a werewolf, in that last case).

[lord_hur]

None of this holds up. Even in an open game which was guaranteed to only have one scumgroup, I wouldn't usually view certainty as a scumtell (many players will overstate their certainty for better reactions or just for fun). In this game, scum pretty obviously don't know everyone's alignment from the start, because we've almost certainly got multiple scumgroups. Even if it's somehow only one scumgroup, scum may be looking for rival scum.

... Most of this is at least partially wrong in my opinion, but anyway, what's your point? Well, except trying to belittle me to get people to back you up even more?

Anyway, you've been avoiding this, but I still want you address the argument I made earlier about your accusation that I'm an SK. SK's generally have a hard time as it is; do you really think an SK would be introduced into this game on day 1? It would have to get through multiple occurences of player turnover, and would almost certainly be killed long before the end of the game. I bring this up because you've been repeating alot of, "Kill Patrick and take away a nightkill!"

Repeating a lot of? I won't reread my own posts for this, but I'm pretty sure I only said that two very consecutive times, stop making things up. But maybe you're overfocusing over this one worrying thing?

Well, anyway, here is my answer :

1. Experimental games have design flaws ;
2. It is always possible that one of the newcomers was another werewolf (actually, it would explain why you're still kicking). Just as it is also possible there wasn't any. I'm not even sure *you* know.

But this isn't important. What is, is why I avoided answering this question (because that's the one thing you are right about) :

Because I wanted to see how much you would insist to defend

not yourself, but an antitown role you did not claim to be

.

I did not say *you* are a SK, I said the werewolf is (and as such, werewolf-hunting should be the priority over mafia-hunting). It is *you* who slapped that wolk skin over your back, assimilated you and it, and defended it, instead of hunting for it like I tried to.

There is absolutely no reason to defend the werewolf's position (about his lynch's attractivity) unless you do it unconsciously, because you are it.

Also, but it is secondary, you again avoid accusing me of being it. I am quite sure that not once have you said I might be the werewolf, while it would have been the most obvious defense against my accusations. Maybe are you still thinking you can pretend tomorrow that there never was a werewolf, perhaps at the cost of a no-nightkill play? I sure hope that they will not be fooled by it and hang you good tomorrow, if you do manage to get me lynched today.

[lord_hur]

Hello, just popping in to welcome myself into the game -.-

Welcome, and I hope you're a fast reader

[lord_hur]

Because I wanted to see how much you would insist to defend not yourself, but an antitown role you did not claim to be.

I did not say *you* are a SK, I said the werewolf is (and as such, werewolf-hunting should be the priority over mafia-hunting). It is *you* who slapped that wolk skin over your back, assimilated you and it, and defended it, instead of hunting for it like I tried to.

There is absolutely no reason to defend the werewolf's position (about his lynch's attractivity) unless you do it unconsciously, because you are it.

Wow, you think you can get away with this one? You've accused me a number of times of being a werewolf; reading through the filter you did it in your posts 53, 55 (where you accuse me of trying to explain away "my" gory kills), post 56, post 57, 61, 63 (indirectly) and maybe others I've missed. In several other posts you've accused me of being an SK, so it's clear you're accusing me of being a werewolf-SK. No assumptions made by me there, no "slapping werewolf skin on my back". LOL, did you think I wasn't going to bother checking your posts to expose these lies?

Thanks for missing the point completely. Of course I accused you of being the werewolf, since it is not me. But you did not simply dismiss the point about that SK thing thinking "I am not the werewolf, so I don't care" : you actually defended the werewolf role.

[lord_hur]

Question: if we lynch one of Patrick and lord_hur, and that person comes up town, should we lynch the other or look for scum in the players that joined today? (assuming nothing extraordinary happens) This has to be answered before we lynch one of them, because if the question is "don't lynch the other" then the second question is "why would we lynch one of them today?". Man I have no idea if I'm making any sense right now...

If I'm lynched today, lord_hur should definitely be lynched. I'm somewhat surprised to see you asking this question, because earlier you seemed to say that one of myself/lord_hur must definitely be scum.

How touching. Because you will end up town of course?

Here's my view of things, with all possibilities (if we lynch me, simply replace "me" with "Patrick")

1. Patrick is town : lynch me, I'm the werewolf
2. Patrick is mafia : lynch me, I'm the werewolf
3. Patrick is werewolf : that's the only case where it is not sure that I am scum. But it still is a possibility, I must admit. I could be town. I could be mafia. Hell, I could still be a werewolf distancing Patrick.

[lord_hur]

By the way, sorry for the multiple posts, but I'd like Patrick in particular to comment on this last post of mine. I do not want him to get away with my lynch (in case he gets me lynched, of course).

[lord_hur]

This is not what I asked. But why am I not surprised.

Here it is in a way you cannot feign to misunderstand :

Do you agree that one of us is necessarily a werewolf, ie an anti-town claw killer?

[lord_hur]

Not necessarily.

This is what I wanted to hear, thank you.

If this cannot convince them, nothing can. I am not even going to insult people's intelligence to explain why it is obvious there is one.

I am done with this day.

[lord_hur]

I did say it in the post before that, so even if you disagree with it, it can hardly be "unsubstantiated slander". Reposted:

By the way, that line of questioning makes it obvious you're scum. If you were protown, you wouldn't need any assurance beyond "If I'm lynched today as town Patrick is lynched tomorrow". The fact that you're trying to cover scenarios where you're lynched and turn up scum makes it clear you're scum.

Just a comment about this : it was obvious Patrick tailored his first, incomplete answer in such a way that I could not push further without allowing him to accuse me of being scum.

I saw it, but went in anyway, because even if that gave him an opportunity to counterattack, I would have at last his final answer.

Again, I don't care about my personal safety, I just want him dead.

[lord_hur]

Internet down for almost a week :/

I read back, not much happening since I last posted. People clarifying ideas, fosing and being fosed in response, etc.

Meh, if you guys aren't counting, that's fine as well, it's not as if I lose immediately, but you'll regret it. *sulks*

Excuse me, but you have done nothing to make us (well me at least) believe that you are trustworthy. We've just been bombed by someone pretending to help town, remember.

Plus, qualifying all our play since you've left as meaningless isn't helping.

And finally (but it only concerns me, I guess) your vote on me, which is seriously unbacked up (Patrick's "critical analysis"? that he is a skilled player doesn't mean he's town ; also, my only scum win was mainly due to me apparently doing most of the hunting and analysis).

[lord_hur]

No, I actually no longer care. If you didn't get what's going on yet, then your loss (I mean, not necessarily you, but all of the townies). I am sure it would be completely obvious to me were I in your place.

I am done here.

[lord_hur]

Ok, someone finish me please...

Anyone really, it doesn't matter.

[lord_hur]

Thank you.