Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Raven Branwen]

I see some votes on spring and I think they come mostly because of playstyle rather than an actual scumread

I'm aware of Hectic being more serious than I'm used to, but that seems to be because of spring putting him on the spot rather than an alignment thing. It's a new angle for me.

No I don't think it's AI for spring, that's what I meant

@PB why is spring not reevaluating his thoughs? He got quite solid feedback from people but instead of doubt he persist even more.

~ker

PB doesn’t sound like a Farkset buddy here.

This is what I mean by PB dissociatives.

I said that obviously not Kerset.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, does PB deserve all the credit for knightmares lynch?

I don’t think he hardbusses Knight when no one was sr him att. Obviously not all but I think TSE is right. I still think Raya NK is a frame and PB hard defended Ali, plus his role sounds townie.

[Raven Branwen]

ABR, what would it take for you to finally listen to us on NK15 if you're town?

If you write a decent case that isn't "my VCA"

Who else can it be?

TSE wouldn’t have been pushing me if he were scum with venge in effect and the XP mechanic means scum has to be down 1 XP, in order to have killed Raya.

[Raven Branwen]

oh btw why did you guys lynch creature btw

Another reason why Ali is town and has decent reads.

[Raven Branwen]

did ame just powerlynch our protective role

oh my god she actually did

Yep, he wasted a lynch on bleeding obvtown. :/

[Raven Branwen]

is ame the person to use a vig to shoot their own scumbuddy to enable a lynch mechanic

the idea is so absurd but deciding to powerlynch the protective is just so baaaaad

That’s not even actually possible is it? Ame vigged Farkset, that makes him confitown. Scum can’t NK their buddies, maybe in an FL game but not this one.

@mod, please tell us that scum can’t NK their buddies or I think my brain might literally explode.

[Raven Branwen]

Ya know what
call me crazy
VOTE: ame
but I'm feeling this atm

If he hadn’t claimed to vig Farkset with no CC, I’d 100% be with you on this but scum!Ame can’t kill Farkset or this game is insane.

[Raven Branwen]

Ya know what
call me crazy
VOTE: ame
but I'm feeling this atm

Explain

I don't want to believe that PB decided the best play to make at D2 EoD is to not lynch me.
I do not believe in a PB that accurately understands how I play the game as both alignments and is scum.

I think Farkset TMI'd Pine as town and ABR feels townie

{Spring, NK15} contains at least 1 town. NK15 tried to phrase Spring/Raven v Farkset as SvS.
NK I don't think as scum would suggest something so absurd as say Spring v Farkset is SvS.
Raven seems town imo. Like I am reading their posts this day phase and I think they're fine.

TSE doesn't make sense to me as scum. What he is saying lines up with what Ginngie previously said and its consistent and I think its fine.

who does that leave?

I agree, I don’t think TSE pushes me with venge mechanic in play.

[Raven Branwen]

The thing that irks me the most is I wanted a massclaim to try to get Ame, a player who mechanically understood the game, to use the mechanics of the game to snowball a win.
Instead they lynch Creature, a player who wouldn't fakeclaim this super op bullshit role, and is this super amazing op bullshit role

That’s why I’d venge Ame if mislynched, to stop him from helping scum but I can’t see how he’s scum with no CC on Farkset kill.

[Raven Branwen]

Raya gave him the XP

would it make sense for raya to do that?

That was literally the plan for her to gift both Ame and TSE and I watched Ame and can co firm a miscellaneous action was performed on him last night, so I’m assuming the same goes for TSE.

[Raven Branwen]

Scum can’t NK their buddies

is this a rule

I’ve never seen a game where this has happened but I want the mod to confirm it just in case. Wouldn’t that make the game bastard?

[Raven Branwen]

btw we're 100% questing tonight.
I need to prove I'm not lieing somehow

I can’t see you NKing Raya, so I believe you.

[Raven Branwen]

The thing that irks me the most is I wanted a massclaim to try to get Ame, a player who mechanically understood the game, to use the mechanics of the game to snowball a win.
Instead they lynch Creature, a player who wouldn't fakeclaim this super op bullshit role, and is this super amazing op bullshit role

I think this is unfair because you weren't here to help me. I didn't know that about creature, and I'm not a mechanical solve type player. On my home forum, we ignore claims that aren't mechanically clear when it comes to lynching. Additionally, ABR's role could have made us all BPs or Body Guards, which seems like a lot of protection.

What do you think of PB agreeing with and joining the creature lynch?

Me and Titus BOTH told you he was obvtown and you responded by sr Titus for it.

[Raven Branwen]

I agreed that it was Creature's scum meta which is doing nothing, but he probably siteflaked and fucked that meta

No that post where he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya was 100% town!Creature meta and knowing scum don’t get fakeclaims seals it. Unfortunately, that was only confirmed post-lynch. I actually tried to get him unflipped but was unsuccessful.

[Raven Branwen]

what did TSE claim? And his actions each night? Was he questing?

-Nothing N1, did join quest
-Nothing N2
-Nothing N3

VT upgrades at 4 XP

Hey is training not passive

for real tho is training passive

Is training passive or do I have to message the mod to train

which I think would be lame due to the fact that I'm not told I have to PM the mod to train.

If it is passive, then I earned one less xp because I should have 3 since that one dude died and I didn't do anything last night

i have 2 xp

i keep forgetting to train

started with 1

got the one from the dead dude

forgot to gift im sorry

This is really bad, guys.

How come we have no investigative PRs? Is it just ALL through questing?

Hello, I’m a voyeur.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

Didn’t you claim you would train last night? How can you only have 0?

[Raven Branwen]

If you want me and Raven to die you have to lynch Raven. The rules are clear enough. The upgrade is shown to me at the end of the phase but it has already happened so I have used all 4 xp for the upgrade and am now at 0 xp.

I would only venge Ame, no one else because he’s scumsiding by lynching obvtown Creature.

[Raven Branwen]

Scum can’t NK their buddies

is this a rule

I’ve never seen a game where this has happened but I want the mod to confirm it just in case. Wouldn’t that make the game bastard?

its how i got my don corleone win in 2017 and ABR did it in that same year. He shot Kuribo and we won the game

So you’re saying it’s actually possible that Ame could be scum here?

[Raven Branwen]

If he hadn’t claimed to vig Farkset with no CC, I’d 100% be with you on this but scum!Ame can’t kill Farkset or this game is insane.

Wait...
Actually, what happened to Farkset?

They got treestumped.

This means whatever killed them is

not the mafia factional kill

.
There is actually no gurantee that this treestump wasn`t compulsive.
If Ame is scum, what were her options?
Kill a scumbuddy and get towncred...
or kill a townie and not only get less towncred but

also get a permanent unkillable IC into this game

!
Why was Raya the kill?
To obfuscate that Ame is still alive by making a nonsense kill!
And we followed her blindly, like sheep...
VOTE: Ame

That is true but I’m still having trouble wrapping my brain around this.

[Raven Branwen]

I would only venge Ame, no one else because he’s scumsiding by lynching obvtown Creature.

You cant. They got a lot of xp due to gifting people.

What if I refuse to venge anyone? What would happen then?

[Raven Branwen]

Scum can’t NK their buddies

is this a rule

I’ve never seen a game where this has happened but I want the mod to confirm it just in case. Wouldn’t that make the game bastard?

its how i got my don corleone win in 2017 and ABR did it in that same year. He shot Kuribo and we won the game

So you’re saying it’s actually possible that Ame could be scum here?

What Ame had was not a standard Mafia nightkill. It was a treestump. Even if mafia is unable to perform the standard nightkill on their buddies... then that doesn`t mean that a mafia with a 1-shot treestump is unable to treestump their buddies(especially as treestumping town has negative consequences)

Ame has 100% been scumsiding. He has tried to wagon town: Hectic, Raya, Creature, me. Is Ame’s horrible play here means he could be scum?

But what is really super weird to me is how Ame is still alive. Why does scum kill Raya > him?

[Raven Branwen]

Am I crazy for considering it actually could be Ame? NK15 sounds really town as does TSE.

Someone tell me.

[Raven Branwen]

Am I crazy for considering it actually could be Ame? NK15 sounds really town as does TSE.

Someone tell me.

@Titus, @PB, do you think this is possible? Ame is acting the scummiest today and yesterday but I auto assumed he just had to be bad town because of Farkset.

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, can scum kill a buddy if it happens outside of the factional kill?

[Raven Branwen]

Stop making excuses and just cancel it

I cannot cancel it.

You are lieing

@mod can an upgrade be cancelled once you receive the request?

[Raven Branwen]

Btw
VOTE: no
Now that I think about it this is better.
today we lynch and if there’s a kill its 1v5
Then another lynch and another kill is 1v3
Then we capture and its 1v2 with the captured person being confirmed town if there’s a kill.

Good vote, this is why I think PB is town, we don’t need to help scum when they already get to NK.

[Raven Branwen]

It's probably nk15 or ABR anyway but I won't vote ABR with the big shot up in case I am wrong.

I can’t see it being you, PB, Ali or TSE and Occam's razor likely just means Ame is just bad town > scum. I don’t think it’s likely to be ABR anymore but unless TSE flips on PB like he did Creature, I’m not interested in lynching there.

But I think your VCA is probably correct.

Also how did scum!ABR get 5 XP?

[Raven Branwen]

Btw
VOTE: no
Now that I think about it this is better.
today we lynch and if there’s a kill its 1v5
Then another lynch and another kill is 1v3
Then we capture and its 1v2 with the captured person being confirmed town if there’s a kill.

Scum can just no kill regardless. Its a bad move.

Why? Doesn’t venge put one lynch in control of one player and if they’re wrong, how doesn’t that just help scum?

[Raven Branwen]

Ginngie has done nothing but sheep their crew so far lol.

I'm sheeping a big enough group so they can't all be scum and my slot can do pro-town things while I'm currently busy in life not able to focus.

(Ginngie is town by the way. Thought y'all should know. <3)

This reads like Mastina spewing Ginnie town. I also like TSE’s conviction on PB. As scum, he is a lot more agenday than he is here.

[Raven Branwen]

The capture at 1v3

Oh right. Yeah, unless the captured is the last person in most people’s PoE, scum could just no kill to frame them.

[Raven Branwen]

The capture at 1v3

Oh right. Yeah, unless the captured is the last person in most people’s PoE, scum could just no kill to frame them.

Or conversely, the captured could also be scum but if there’s a kill, then the captured player is of course then confitown.

[Raven Branwen]

We should vote yes on the vengekill.

Why? If the lynched player is wrong, how doesn’t that help scum? If we vote no, that’s one less townie dead.

@mod, is it possible for scum to have transferred XP to a buddy?

[Raven Branwen]

Btw
VOTE: no
Now that I think about it this is better.
today we lynch and if there’s a kill its 1v5
Then another lynch and another kill is 1v3
Then we capture and its 1v2 with the captured person being confirmed town if there’s a kill.

No it is...
today we lynch then there is a vengekill and a nightkill and its 1v4.
then another lynch and a vengekill. Then IF mafia can do another nightkill it is over(dont forget that that one costs 1 xp)
If not it goes to another lynch and a vengekill.
vs.
today we lynch and if there is a kill its 1v5
then another lynch and another kill it is 1v3
then we capture and... the captured person gets killed resulting in 1v2 without confirmed town.
That`s 4 checks plus potentially 2 others... vs 4 checks...

Read this if you want to vote no.

A vengekill gives one player too much control. Why can’t we just normal lynch, if game doesn’t end, wait to see what happened during the night and lynch again?

[Raven Branwen]

A vengekill gives one player too much control. Why can’t we just normal lynch, if game doesn’t end, wait to see what happened during the night and lynch again?

What? The vengekill is done by confirmed town!!!! Unless I am the investigative and I probably won`t survive we won`t get any meaningful results at night, too.

I never said it wasn’t, what I did say is that it gives one player too much power, in case they are WRONG. With a lynch, it’s the majority who decide.

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, please tell us that scum can’t NK their buddies or I think my brain might literally explode.

The mafia factional kill may target any player other than the player making it, including a mafia member.

@mod, can scum kill a buddy if it happens outside of the factional kill?

If they had a role that allowed them to do so, yes.

Woah, so Ame can’t actually be considered mech confitown based on this but still I think that scum would be more likely to kill hostile town > a buddy. I particularly thought scum could never NK a buddy during factional kill. *Mind blown*.

[Raven Branwen]

Woah, so Ame can’t actually be considered mech confitown based on this but still I think that scum would be more likely to kill hostile town > a buddy. I particularly thought scum could never NK a buddy during factional kill. *Mind blown*.

treestump, though....

The flaw in this reasoning is that vigs more often than not misvig town. Why couldn’t scum!Ame have vigged lhf > a buddy? Is it possible that Ame is scum who treestumped Farkset? Apparently it is. Is it likely? Not really and why couldn’t have scum!Ame just vigged town and not take responsibility for it? It’s not like he was anywhere near L-1 or even being wagoned at the time, so I think scum!Ame just viggs town and says nothing, is more believable than your theory imo. As Titus said, this is something not to seriously consider before we hit LYLO.

So, if according to the mod, you can cancel your upgrade request and if Ame really is your #1 sr, why not do it?

[Raven Branwen]

This is the right choice. @Titus @Raven sorry for defending scum yesterday. Let's end the game.

I’m way more upset that you mislynched Creature, after I unvoted ABR and why you wanted to mislynch me, when my XP claim perfectly fits with my miscellaneous result, is something I can’t even begin to comprehend.

If NK15 refuses to cancels his upgrade request, he’s scum because the upgrade request is a lie.

@NK15, will you cancel your upgrade request? Yes or no. If no, I don’t see why I shouldn’t vote you.

[Raven Branwen]

The rules explicitely say that it is instant:

During any day or night, any player may PM us to spend some XP to upgrade their role. Each role has a different unique upgrade, and each role has an upgrade cost that is between 2 and 4 (and is known to the player). When a player

upgrades during a phase

, they will learn their new role at the end of that phase.

Where does it say it’s “instant”?

And even if I

could

and the mod tells me that it is a bad wording in the rules...

I won`t.

Why wouldn’t you? And why did you reject Raya’s gift in order to train? You literally never mentioned anything about an upgrade.

Stop making excuses and just cancel it

I cannot cancel it.

You are lieing

I haven`t tried it, and I

won`t

. It would be pro-scum to cancel upgrade.

How is cancelling an upgrade “pro-scum”?

That literally just reads as I don’t want to
Even if I make something up along the lines of “you’re lieing” like I did (because knowing SS I think you would be able to cancel it), for whatever reason, you just don’t want to, and I am trying to expose that.

yeah why should I cancel? It just denies town info on flip.

How does this make any sense?

I think you are lying about the upgrade or else you wouldn’t be so opposed to canceling it.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't quite understand what is to be upset about, particularly considering that ABR was the counter wagon. The only difference between lynching the two is that I wouldn't come into the day shading you and Titus for being incorrect and ignoring my reasons for why he was town.

Because you ignored our reads and it was a really bad antitown play to mislynch Creature and you were disrespecting both me and Titus by ignoring it. I standby what I said about it and Ali even temp voted you for it, so it was a godawful mislynch but it’s way more likely that NK15 is lying about his upgrade than you treestumped a buddy.

I’m pissed because Creature was practically locktown for me, not one of the iffy slots I could have possibly been persuaded on and for all of the reasons I already stated. The mod would have also agreed to have given us an extension because of not responding in a timely manner to critically important questions but they told me, that they couldn’t cancel his lynch, even if he hadn’t had been flipped yet. To be fair to you, Creature was posting elsewhere when his being active in the game could have also made a difference. I get really upset when I’m extremely confident on a tr and it gets completely ignored like that. You even briefly accused Titus of having a tmi read on him, I think that angered me the most.

Anyway, I think NK15 refusing to cancel an upgrade, he never even mentioned yesterday is probably scum indicative.

VOTE: NK15

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

Didn’t you claim you would train last night? How can you only have 0?

Because I already chose to upgrade this day...

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

Actually, this does check out,

UNVOTE:

@NK15, cancel your upgrade or I’m revoting you.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

Didn’t you claim you would train last night? How can you only have 0?

Because I already chose to upgrade this day...

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

Actually, this does check out,

UNVOTE:

@NK15, cancel your upgrade or I’m revoting you.

Why? Because cancelling it proves you’re literally not lying about your XP and we have no way of determining that unless you do.

[Raven Branwen]

Because you ignored our reads and it was a really bad antitown play to mislynch Creature and you were disrespecting both me and Titus by ignoring it. I standby what I said about it and Ali even temp voted you for it, so it was a godawful mislynch but it’s way more likely that NK15 is lying about his upgrade than you treestumped a buddy.

I’m pissed because Creature was practically locktown for me, not one of the iffy slots I could have possibly been persuaded on and for all of the reasons I already stated. The mod would have also agreed to have given us an extension because of not responding in a timely manner to critically important questions but they told me, that they couldn’t cancel his lynch, even if he hadn’t had been flipped yet. To be fair to you, Creature was posting elsewhere when his being active in the game could have also made a difference. I get really upset when I’m extremely confident on a tr and it gets completely ignored like that. You even briefly accused Titus of having a tmi read on him, I think that angered me the most.

ABR is was lock town for me and you and Titus "disrespected" my read by ignoring how he couldn't be scum. Your PoE isn't the only one that matters. We all have our own perspectives.

How did I disrespect you? I unvoted him, remember?

[Raven Branwen]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

[Raven Branwen]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

I’m opposed to venge since it doesn’t cancel out scum’s NK, where we can get info based off of unaccounted XP. With venge, yes the game could literally end if correct but far more likely, it just loses us a later free mislynch, so bad idea. I don’t see how venge is anything but proscum.

[Raven Branwen]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

Having doubt/= driving a mislynch. I didn’t even vote for Ame. I was legit in shock that he wasn’t actually confitown like I had previously thought. I’m of course willing to work together with my trs and Ame is still one. What I’m waiting for is proof of NK15 cancelling his upgrade and proving that he actually has 4 XP, which he should if he’s telling the truth about his claim.

What I will do however is apologize for and redact is my blacklist threat. That was a way overreaction but I was seriously pissed enough to consider replacing out once I saw the flip but then I thought better of it.

And PB, you’re definitely wrong about Creature not being obvtown. 1) Farkset/Mastina dissociatives. 2) LC was super townie. 3) Creature’s role claim. 4) Creature’s posting - especially the post where he said he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya. You can even add Titus’ VCA into that. Like seriously, how many reasons do you need?

[Raven Branwen]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

I’m opposed to venge since it doesn’t cancel out scum’s NK, where we can get info based off of unaccounted XP. With venge, yes the game could literally end if correct but far more likely, it just loses us a later free mislynch, so bad idea. I don’t see how venge is anything but proscum.

Why is a vengekill less likely to hit scum than a lynch? You realize that if scum cannot kill the next two times in a row(which is not unlikely) then with the vengekill variant we have SIX instead of four town-driven kills?

You’re still missing the point. Venge /=2 town lynches, if it did, I’d be 100% in favour. What it does is put the power into a single player’s hands and just loses us one additional free mislynch if they get it wrong. What part of that aren’t you getting? And of course you can obviously argue that the lynchee could still hypothetically consensus venge but a lynched slot has no checks and balances, so they are under no obligation to listen to anyone else’s opinions. Sometimes, games have vigges like Ame claims to have had a vig shot and sometimes venge is not something that can be voted on by the majority but since in this case it can. Only way I think it’s a good idea is if NK literally ends the game, which it doesn’t. The most useful application of the mechanic is seeing how the XP thing factors into peoples’ decisions. Like I was convinced on TSE scum until the venge had no effect on his push on me, which you’d 100% expect due to scum obviously needing to survive, so I don’t think scum!TSE would have pushed me knowing I could literally venge him. Plus his posting in general today reads townie to me and I also think Mastina spewed him town.

[Raven Branwen]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

Having doubt/= driving a mislynch. I didn’t even vote for Ame. I was legit in shock that he wasn’t actually confitown like I had previously thought. I’m of course willing to work together with my trs and Ame is still one. What I’m waiting for is proof of NK15 cancelling his upgrade and proving that he actually has 4 XP, which he should if he’s telling the truth about his claim.

What I will do however is apologize for and redact is my blacklist threat. That was a way overreaction but I was seriously pissed enough to consider replacing out once I saw the flip but then I thought better of it.

And PB, you’re definitely wrong about Creature not being obvtown. 1) Farkset/Mastina dissociatives. 2) LC was super townie. 3) Creature’s role claim. 4) Creature’s posting - especially the post where he said he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya. You can even add Titus’ VCA into that. Like seriously, how many reasons do you need?

My analogy is towards the point "don't get pissed because someone is wrong when you're right. Get pissed when someone is being an asshole". Ame hasn't been an asshole. Nothing else, nothing more.

And I don't agree with Creature being obvtown, that's an opinion, I can't be wrong. Again, not because you were right on his alignment means Creature was absolutely obvtown and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Ex ante and ex post. Yes, now that we know he flipped town, we can say "hm yeah that was pretty stupid, he was very townie because of all of this reasons", but when you don't KNOW his alignment, you get paranoid and think "no that's NAI" or "that looked suspicious". You're leaving out the context of the situation.

The only obvtown in this game, from my perspective, is you. Creature had some iffy posts, LC had some iffy posts, and Creature not being present matched with his scum meta. You on the other hand, are so fucking obvtown it hurts!

That is true, he was online at the time of his wagon posting, You definitely know my meta. I hate to mislynch as town. I think it’s probably a safe bet that had spring not replaced out, she probably would have gotten mislynched at some point. But you have an excellent point and I need to be a lot more chill about games, so sorry @Ame, if I said anything to make you feel bad. PB is of course right, you don’t deserve my coming down on you like I did. I guess I’m being the “asshole” in this equation, so please accept my sincere apology for being such a jerk about it.

[Raven Branwen]

We can even confirm that somebody didn`t lie about the xp they have! And because scum died Night 1/Day 2 they cannot have gotten ANY xp from their scumpartners(Yes Farkran is a treestump but all treestumps can do is talk, they cannot perform actions).

@mod, is it possible for scum to have transferred XP to a buddy?

Yes; through the Gift public mechanic, or if they have a role-based or factional ability that allows it.

There has only been 2 NKs so far and my theory that makes Titus/Hectic’s sabotage likely true, is that based on Knight’s extremely suspicious claim wrt to his XP, it seems to suggest that he did the FotC kill.

[Raven Branwen]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

What? You were opposed to Ame lynching me before. What changed? And you know there’s only one player who can do that, which is of course ABR.

[Raven Branwen]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

What? You were opposed to Ame lynching me before. What changed? And you know there’s only one player who can do that, which is of course ABR.

Why do you need me to actually die to confirm me? When did you change your read on me? I’m starting to have doubts on you, because how is this a townie thought or are you that eager to lynch ABR? Because he is the only one who can shoot me.

[Raven Branwen]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

Ame, suppose for a moment Raven's town. Would you lynch ABR or NK15? Normally, I would lynch ABR but

I have to have some self preservation knowing there's an innocent on me.

So, you were opposed to lynching ABR when you thought he might venge you but you’re fine with lynching him. if he venges me?

I’m losing my Titus tr now. :/

[Raven Branwen]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

What? You were opposed to Ame lynching me before. What changed? And you know there’s only one player who can do that, which is of course ABR.

Why do you need me to actually die to confirm me? When did you change your read on me? I’m starting to have doubts on you, because how is this a townie thought or are you that eager to lynch ABR? Because he is the only one who can shoot me.

Nah, you dont understand. If you have 4 xp and I do, and I attempt to shoot you you don`t die.
If you have LESS than 4 xp due to being lying scum...well thats another story.

I do but I asked for an upgrade, which I’d have to cancel then, but fine.

[Raven Branwen]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

Ame, suppose for a moment Raven's town. Would you lynch ABR or NK15? Normally, I would lynch ABR but

I have to have some self preservation knowing there's an innocent on me.

So, you were opposed to lynching ABR when you thought he might venge you but you’re fine with lynching him. if he venges me?

I’m losing my Titus tr now. :/

Do you have 4 xp?

Yes, I did request an upgrade but I will cancel it if this is the plan. If I die I obviously can’t use it.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm not understanding this plan. What if scum is telling the truth about their remaining XP?

The mafia nightkill costs 1 xp. Night 3 kill was done by the remaining scum.
Plus, even if they didnt lie because they got xp from another source - we are doing this mainly to NOT vengekill someone today because that messes up the numbers and costs us a lynch later on, AND a vengekill.

Okay fine, shoot me then, I just cancelled my upgrade request. Sorry Titus. I clearly misunderstood you.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm not understanding this plan. What if scum is telling the truth about their remaining XP?

The mafia nightkill costs 1 xp. Night 3 kill was done by the remaining scum.
Plus, even if they didnt lie because they got xp from another source - we are doing this mainly to NOT vengekill someone today because that messes up the numbers and costs us a lynch later on, AND a vengekill.

Okay fine, shoot me then, I just cancelled my upgrade request. Sorry Titus. I clearly misunderstood you.

Okay, so it’s obviously not NK15, because he can’t shoot me without being lynched.

[Raven Branwen]

So, if NK15 shoots me I obviously won’t die but he will and I don’t see why scum!him proposes this plan because if scum, he loses, so can someone who actually has a snowball’s chance of actually being scum shoot me instead?

[Raven Branwen]

So, if NK15 shoots me I obviously won’t die but he will and I don’t see why scum!him proposes this plan because if scum, he loses, so can someone who actually has a snowball’s chance of actually being scum shoot me instead?

However if ABR shoots me I actually would die but I’m not scum and obviously neither is NK15 but if he’s onboard with this, I’ll vote venge and him, eventhough it’s pretty damned obvious, he’s flipping town here.

[Raven Branwen]

@NK15, do you want me to vote for you and venge?

[Raven Branwen]

@NK15, do you want me to vote for you and venge?

So it’s kind of like a desperado, expect with numbered XP.

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t think NK15 is scum, so for me it’s down to ABR and TSE and sorry Ame but I don’t think it’s TSE.

I think ABR should shoot me. Yes, I will actually die in that case but I think that NK15 is very obviously town now and if ABR flips town, it probably is TSE. What do you guys think?

[Raven Branwen]

@NK15, do you want me to vote for you and venge?

I first want to see the xp claims from others and how they fit in.
Why are you still voting no to vengeful?

VOTE: Yes

[Raven Branwen]

I think ABR should shoot me. Yes, I will actually die in that case but I think that NK15 is very obviously town now and if ABR flips town, it probably is TSE. What do you guys think?

We risk losing a lynch with a subsequent vengekill if that happens.

Sure. You’re right but you die and you’re asking me to lynch a tr but if everyone thinks this is the best plan, I’ll do it but one town - you would still die but if we don’t vote venge, we actually could lynch scum and end the game but fine.

VOTE: NK15

I hate voting town, so I’m doing this under protest but okay.

[Raven Branwen]

That's supposing none of us gain a cop check when we upgrade.

This also doesn't factor vengekills.

Well, I was hoping to upgrade tonight but I cancelled it, unless I can still upgrade and keep my 4 XP in order to get the soft clear?

@mod, if I don’t cancel my upgrade and NK15 shoots me, I die right?

[Raven Branwen]

I think ABR should shoot me. Yes, I will actually die in that case but I think that NK15 is very obviously town now and if ABR flips town, it probably is TSE. What do you guys think?

We risk losing a lynch with a subsequent vengekill if that happens.

+1 but this plan moves him closer to PoE

Ame is conftown
We'll both be soft cleared

That'll leave TSE, Alisae, Pink Ball, and ABR

In order to get to a lylo, he'd have to shoot near conftown everynight.

ABR loses against Alisae in a 1 v 1.

That forces ABR to try and mislynch TSE and Pink Ball as his only moves and forces him to keep a conftown in lylo.

ABR was hard sr me until Ame suggested he venge me and he’s been tr me ever since.

[Raven Branwen]

So what are we doing?

NK15 wants us to lynch him and shoot me. Since this makes no sense if he’s scum and I will be soft-cleared, the game definitely isn’t ending today.

I think that ABR is the likeliest to flip scum but he can’t soft clear me, because he has 5XP and I only have 4. It’s too bad, Ame didn’t direct Raya to gift me, because then I could go 1v1 with ABR but this plan means that obvtown NK15 dies, I get soft cleared and game continues.

[Raven Branwen]

Ok so what about lynching TSE

Well, it has to be between those two but I think ABR > TSE. I tr everyone else.

[Raven Branwen]

And by people I mean Raven

I don’t really see the value in it either because it likely means I will be the defacto NK. Whatever. I think if ABR venges me and game continues, it’s TSE but I’ll vote whatever.

[Raven Branwen]

Also I’m not particularly interested in soft clearing people

And by people I mean Raven

Why Raven in particular? Isn't soft clearing good for town?

i tr raven so I think it’s unnecessary

The worst part of it, is we have to lynch obvtown NK15 to make it happen. So we mislynch NK15 and I probably get NK’d tonight.

[Raven Branwen]

@NK15, @Titus, have you considered that the one problem with this plan is that we will be no closer to figuring out if it’s ABR or TSE?

Because I can’t see it being NK15 obviously and I know I’m town, so how are we moving any closer to solving this?

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, will either NK15 or me lose our XP before the day ends if we re-activate our upgrade requests?

I only wanted NK15 to cancel it to prove he wasn’t lying about his XP and now that it’s obvious he isn’t,

do we even actually need to cancel, if it literally won’t take effect until night or do we lose the XP immediately? Iow, how does that work?

[Raven Branwen]

@NK15, @Titus, have you considered that the one problem with this plan is that we will be no closer to figuring out if it’s ABR or TSE?

Because I can’t see it being NK15 obviously and I know I’m town, so how are we moving any closer to solving this?

Fmpov, It's ABR or Ali and preventing ABR from tunneling you is a net positive. I'll take this compromise.

But Titus, he’s been tr me ever since Ame suggested he venge me. So he’s not tunneling me anymore.

[Raven Branwen]

@NK15, @Titus, have you considered that the one problem with this plan is that we will be no closer to figuring out if it’s ABR or TSE?

Because I can’t see it being NK15 obviously and I know I’m town, so how are we moving any closer to solving this?

Fmpov, It's ABR or Ali and preventing ABR from tunneling you is a net positive. I'll take this compromise.

But Titus, he’s been tr me ever since Ame suggested he venge me. So he’s not tunneling me anymore.

I don’t think it’s Ali. If it’s not ABR, it’s TSE. I don’t see why scum!Ali NKs Raya.

[Raven Branwen]

If you all think it could be ABR, let him venge me. Ame won’t ever let him be lynched. Soft clearing just means I probably get NK’d anyway and Ame will lynch EVERYONE in the game before ABR, so if we all think it’s likely between ABR and TSE, I think the most sensible plan is for ABR to venge me. We could lynch TSE but I think Mastina spewed him town.

I think the one slot who needs to be cleared is ABR and who cares if I have to die to make that happen?

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t see how I nightkill with 0 XP tbh

I trained and now i have 1 but still

Right you claimed upgrade so you’re clear.

[Raven Branwen]

The catch is I don't trust town ABR.

What do you mean? He is tr me now and not tunelling me, so what exactly are you afraid of?

[Raven Branwen]

The catch is I don't trust town ABR.

What do you mean? He is tr me now and not tunelling me, so what exactly are you afraid of?

ABR shooting me.

Why do you even care? I’m fine with him shooting me. If you honestly think he’s scum here, why wouldn’t you be willing to die to get him lynched?…

[Raven Branwen]

Like I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t want to get mislynched. No one does but if you can take out your strongest sr by dying, why wouldn’t you?

[Raven Branwen]

The catch is I don't trust town ABR.

What do you mean? He is tr me now and not tunelling me, so what exactly are you afraid of?

ABR shooting me.

Why do you even care? I’m fine with him shooting me. If you honestly think he’s scum here, why wouldn’t you be willing to die to get him lynched?…

Thinking he's scum =/= certainty he's scum. I can't jeopardize my conftown status on it either. If I was suspected, I would in a heartbeat.

What do you mean by jeopardizing your “confitown status”? I think you’re extremely likely to be town but literally no one is confitown here, not even Ame but he obviously comes the closest.

[Raven Branwen]

Like I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t want to get mislynched. No one does but if you can take out your strongest sr by dying, why wouldn’t you?

Because I can't afford the risk. This isn't the Titus show. Also, this isn't Titus v Alisae, where I live as a treestump forever. My time in this thread is limited. So is my power.

I'd rather do NK15.

What risk? NK15 is obviously town. He proved that by wanting to venge me.

[Raven Branwen]

Like I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t want to get mislynched. No one does but if you can take out your strongest sr by dying, why wouldn’t you?

Because I can't afford the risk. This isn't the Titus show. Also, this isn't Titus v Alisae, where I live as a treestump forever. My time in this thread is limited. So is my power.

I'd rather do NK15.

What risk? NK15 is obviously town. He proved that by wanting to venge me.

The current plan 100% results in obvtown!NK15 dying and my being softcleared. We 100% don’t get even a possibility of a scum lynch with that.

[Raven Branwen]

Like I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t want to get mislynched. No one does but if you can take out your strongest sr by dying, why wouldn’t you?

Because I can't afford the risk. This isn't the Titus show. Also, this isn't Titus v Alisae, where I live as a treestump forever. My time in this thread is limited. So is my power.

I'd rather do NK15.

What risk? NK15 is obviously town. He proved that by wanting to venge me.

Want is just a claim imo.

If he’s lynched, he dies, so him wanting to venge me still literally results in him dying.

[Raven Branwen]

The catch is I don't trust town ABR.

What do you mean? He is tr me now and not tunelling me, so what exactly are you afraid of?

ABR shooting me.

Why do you even care? I’m fine with him shooting me. If you honestly think he’s scum here, why wouldn’t you be willing to die to get him lynched?…

Thinking he's scum =/= certainty he's scum. I can't jeopardize my conftown status on it either. If I was suspected, I would in a heartbeat.

What do you mean by jeopardizing your “confitown status”? I think you’re extremely likely to be town but literally no one is confitown here, not even Ame but he obviously comes the closest.

I was tracked going nowhere last night. Hence why I am close to conftown. ABR started speculating about a Godfather and ninja then.

The point is NK15 is in my pool and someone who I trust not to throw the game if town. I don't have the same trust in ABR.

Who claimed to track you? I must have missed that? I think I’m probably the only one he can softclear as town, due to us having both 4 XP but my point, is we don’t get even the possibility of a scum lynch out of it. NK15 dies and I probably get NK’d and no scumflip. I think scum!NK15 would want me to be venged by ABR rather than himself, since wanting to softclear a slot is town indicative, especially if he has to give his life to make that happen.

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, will either NK15 or me lose our XP before the day ends if we re-activate our upgrade requests?

I only wanted NK15 to cancel it to prove he wasn’t lying about his XP and now that it’s obvious he isn’t,

do we even actually need to cancel, if it literally won’t take effect until night or do we lose the XP immediately? Iow, how does that work?

You don't lose the XP for upgrading until you actually learn the upgrade. It's an instantaneous effect that occurs at the end of the day (when you lose your XP and learn the upgrade and can possibly make use of it), and you can change your mind about whether you want to use it at any time during the day. Sorry about confusion regarding the timing.

So iow, both NK15 don’t need to cancel our upgrades and he can still softclear me?

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, will either NK15 or me lose our XP before the day ends if we re-activate our upgrade requests?

I only wanted NK15 to cancel it to prove he wasn’t lying about his XP and now that it’s obvious he isn’t,

do we even actually need to cancel, if it literally won’t take effect until night or do we lose the XP immediately? Iow, how does that work?

You don't lose the XP for upgrading until you actually learn the upgrade. It's an instantaneous effect that occurs at the end of the day (when you lose your XP and learn the upgrade and can possibly make use of it), and you can change your mind about whether you want to use it at any time during the day. Sorry about confusion regarding the timing.

So iow, both NK15 and me, don’t need to cancel our upgrades and he can still softclear me?

[Raven Branwen]

Your vote on me is so predictable lol.

I'm okay with being voted, I like this plan. Does anyonr else have 5+ XP?

I am the best player to use the vengekill.

Maybe it’s not ABR. I think I may have misread his posts. Maybe he is actually tr me, so if it’s not NK, ABR or TSE, I really hope I get NK’d .

[Raven Branwen]

Ok.... you know what lynch me and I try to shoot Raven to clear this up for once and for all. I think Raven does not want to be shot here and is desperately trying to deflect. You can trust me with this: I WILL shoot Raven. Ame should not be in range anyways(2xp upgrade, got xp from multiple sources) so if it is her you can only get rid of her with a lynch. Preferably the last lynch in LYLO/MYLO.
VOTE: Not Known 15

I was trying to stop a lynch on you but okay, let’s go with that.

[Raven Branwen]

Can u kill TSE?

Apparently he’s still deathtunennelled on me despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Anyway, game won’t end tonight because mod told me nothing would happen, if he shoots me.

[Raven Branwen]

Can u kill TSE?

Apparently he’s still deathtunennelled on me despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Anyway, game won’t end tonight because mod told me nothing would happen, if he shoots me.

That stops most suspicion on you and you get an upgrade. Scum can't kill us both.

NK15 and TSE are literally the only ones who are. Yeah, good thing I checked that out but NK15 will die for nothing and he honestly thinks I was trying to deflect.

I didn’t want to waste a lynch on obvtown and yeah I somehow missed that comment by Ame, so NK15 is wrong on him too.

[Raven Branwen]

Can u kill TSE?

This.

Smh.

Is he not in your PoE? Who is left?

Ali and ABR

Shooting Ali would be fine too. I just think it would be a waste to shoot Raven. I'd like to reduce the pool for my investigative.

I prefer TSE > Ali. Ali seems to think e can be mechanically cleared with a quest.

[Raven Branwen]

I was targeted for the kill last night. Both TSE and and ABR were home (Pink Barded me). So it's down to Ali and Pink.

How do you know this and how was it stopped?

[Raven Branwen]

I was targeted for the kill last night. Both TSE and and ABR were home (Pink Barded me). So it's down to Ali and Pink.

How do you know this and how was it stopped?

So PB’s Barded you, allowed you to double check but I still don’t understand how you know you were targeted and how it was stopped?

[Raven Branwen]

My passive.

Oh, like a bp or something?

[Raven Branwen]

ABR, how come you didn't choose the gold ability? Pine said it would make everyone BP.

+1

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: ABR

At least y'all know Raven's town now.

If Ame was targeted and ABR was “home”, doesn’t that clear him?

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: ABR

At least y'all know Raven's town now.

We do?

Yup. No reason for NK to lie about who he shot. He said he was shooting Raven.

Well obviously, because anyone else would have died.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: ABR

At least y'all know Raven's town now.

We do?

Yup. No reason for NK to lie about who he shot. He said he was shooting Raven.

How much XP he have?

4, we both did, which is why I didn’t die.

[Raven Branwen]

ABR what phase did you upgrade?

Day.

At night i used the ability to put BG into play

Why is Titus voting me? I am as conftown as she is.

VOTE: Titus

Scum has some ninja counterbalanciny PR or some shit, Titus is scum by play.

I don’t even think you should be tin foiling on a slot that Ame confirmed to be at “home” during Raya kill. Only way I’d ever even consider voting Titus, if it’s literally me, Ame and her in LYLO, which according to Occams razor, is extremely unlikely.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm obligated to agree with ABR here tbh.
I just don't see PB as scum right now

I’m not subscribing to any tin foil ninja/godfather theory on a slot that Ame tracked at being home during Raya kill. I also don’t see why Ame even has that ability if it won’t work on everyone.

[Raven Branwen]

Could y'all claim your XP right now?

0. I decided to watch Titus and no one targeted her, I was debating between Ame and Titus but since despite PB’s arguments to the contrary, I still think Ali was likely framed for Raya kill, so I thought scum might target Titus and possibly frame another slot. Obviously, since Ame was the target, I assume due to her tracking ability. Scum apparently doesn’t have a roleblock which is good.

[Raven Branwen]

Could y'all claim your XP right now?

What about you? How much XP do you currently have?

[Raven Branwen]

@TSE, how much XP did your predecessor have on D1, do you know?

[Raven Branwen]

1 XP,

I barded Ame and trained last night

II. Training
Each player, by default, is allowed to Train during the night.

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside any action.

When a player Trains, they gain 1 XP. This is an action and can be blocked or seen with Follower, but it is not considered a visit and therefore cannot be seen by Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur, or Watcher.

VOTE: Pink Ball

[Raven Branwen]

1 XP,

I barded Ame and trained last night

II. Training
Each player, by default, is allowed to Train during the night.

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside any action.

When a player Trains, they gain 1 XP. This is an action and can be blocked or seen with Follower, but it is not considered a visit and therefore cannot be seen by Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur, or Watcher.

VOTE: Pink Ball

@mod, someone, especially a town slot cannot both upgrade and train the same night, correct?

[Raven Branwen]

1 XP,

I barded Ame and trained last night

II. Training
Each player, by default, is allowed to Train during the night.

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside any action.

When a player Trains, they gain 1 XP. This is an action and can be blocked or seen with Follower, but it is not considered a visit and therefore cannot be seen by Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur, or Watcher.

VOTE: Pink Ball

@mod, someone, especially a town slot cannot both PERFORM THEIR NA and train the same night, correct?

[Raven Branwen]

PB is the last scum. I was thinking about how hard he was trying to discard my Raya kill/Ali frame theory and I realized that everything except for the mutually agreed upon part that it makes no sense for Ali to have killed Rata.

1) PB said that Raya was NK’d because her being literally leashed by Ame somehow made her obvtown doesn’t comute, if there were no kill that night.

2). PB claimed that because it made no sense for Ali to have made the kill, it somehow logically follows that scum would obviously come to the same conclusion, which obviously doesn’t necessarily follow.

3) PB insisted that all Ali votes were “naked votes”. Odd assumption to be made without literally asking any Ali voters. Also, who in their right mind - even makes “naked votes” for no reason?

4). No one else even tried to discredit that theory and PB seemed to be working overtime to discredit it, eventhough it made far more sense that Raya was somehow confitown from being leashed when she wasn’t. PB led Knight lynch but never voted him or no venge but did vote Creature. Looks like he couldn’t bring himself to vote a buddy. I think he probably voted for my capture too but need to doublecheck.

5) Anyway he slipped when he said he trained, so the rest just backs this up for me. I also think he was hard pocketing Ame and me yesterday, which might be why Ame didn’t track him but Ame being targeted for the kill cancels out any townpoints from barding because a dead Ame obviously wouldn’t be able to inform us that both ABR and TSE were “home”.

[Raven Branwen]

1 XP,

I barded Ame and trained last night

II. Training
Each player, by default, is allowed to Train during the night.

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside any action.

When a player Trains, they gain 1 XP. This is an action and can be blocked or seen with Follower, but it is not considered a visit and therefore cannot be seen by Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur, or Watcher.

VOTE: Pink Ball

@mod, someone, especially a town slot cannot both PERFORM THEIR NA and train the same night, correct?

By default, nobody can perform a night action and train in the same night, but it is possible that a role exists that would allow it.

@mod, would that role be bard? Can you confirm or deny this?

[Raven Branwen]

Ugh... Are you serious

If not you, PB, who is the last scum? Ali claimed to intend to upgrade on N2 iirc and on D3, eagerly and quite aggressively pushed for the Quest mechanic, so eir lack of XP N3 would be presumably accounted for and like I said, unless you argue that Ame is somehow lying about being targeted - unlikely -, you barding her doesn’t get you town points. If Ame had not been targeted, then yes you’d probably be clear.

ABR and TSE were at home. The night before, it was Titus, he cleared. I know I’m town and my validated XP claim confirms it, so I don’t see how it isn’t you.

And, your claim that your role makes you exempt from the no train + additional action, cannot be substantiated by the mod.

So, why couldn’t scum!you claim train on the night that Ame was targeted? But yeah, I thought your discredit of my theory was really weird, because how in what world would leashed Raya have remotely be confitown with a no kill? You counter argument made no sense logically and and you seemed to be so certain that my Ali frame theory had to be wrong, eventhough when I opened the thread, there were already votes on Ali.

[Raven Branwen]

Nah dude Raven caught me, fair an square! She caught all the inconsistencies in my play!

Are you conceding?

[Raven Branwen]

At least y'all know Raven's town now.

What was the point of this?

To highlight the waste of time and antitownness of ABR's tunnel just to foreclose him from that avenue.

Titus, he stopped tunelling me after I demanded he venge me. I misread his post switching his read on me, because I hadn’t yet read the posts where he was okay with venging, just not me. Ali’s claim checks out, plus can you tell me in what world it makes any iota of logical sense for Ali to have killed Raya? Also, why does scum!Ali dismantle Hectic wagon in order to lynch eir preferred scumread Raya? Why does scum!Ali do that?

PB’s argument that Raya was NK’d due to her being confitown due to being leashed doesn’t make sense. Even NK15, considered it to be a “nonsense” kill. And just because it doesn’t make any sense for Ali to put a mega target on eir back by killing Raya, how does it follow that scum would arrive at that same conclusion? More like, scum thought kill Raya/frame Ali and never consider that there would be a player in the game who would totally see through that.

[Raven Branwen]

Being home last night is only an alibi if Ali was targeted. Y'all are going to assume that's true. I think that's an assumption that Ame is making because no one died.

Ame claims to have been targeted. I still don’t understand how he arrived at that conclusion but he claims to be passively be able to block it.

@Ame, how do you know that scum just didn’t just no kill last night?

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Ame

Dafuq?

Why are you self-voting?

UNVOTE:

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, how much XP does everyone start out with?

[Raven Branwen]

/replace out

Wtf are you doing and why? I don’t understand either your self-vote or replace out?

[Raven Branwen]

Ugh... Are you serious

If not you, PB, who is the last scum? Ali claimed to intend to upgrade on N2 iirc and on D3, eagerly and quite aggressively pushed for the Quest mechanic, so eir lack of XP N3 would be presumably accounted for and like I said, unless you argue that Ame is somehow lying about being targeted - unlikely -, you barding her doesn’t get you town points. If Ame had not been targeted, then yes you’d probably be clear.

ABR and TSE were at home. The night before, it was Titus, he cleared. I know I’m town and my validated XP claim confirms it, so I don’t see how it isn’t you.

And, your claim that your role makes you exempt from the no train + additional action, cannot be substantiated by the mod.

So, why couldn’t scum!you claim train on the night that Ame was targeted? But yeah, I thought your discredit of my theory was really weird, because how in what world would leashed Raya have remotely be confitown with a no kill? You counter argument made no sense logically and and you seemed to be so certain that my Ali frame theory had to be wrong, eventhough when I opened the thread, there were already votes on Ali.

How many times do I have to say that I didn't discredit your theory for you to actually read what I'm saying?????

The stayed at home could be because scum didn't kill last night and hoped to get a false clear as far as I know. Beats me.

Just lynch me already,

I don't want to play with Raven anymore

p-edit: please lynch me dude, Ame, get me lynched. We have enough clears to win this without me.

[Raven Branwen]

Kill: Raven

How can I be scum with confirmed 4 XP yesterday? I was going to tell Titus that she was being unfair to you, misreading your play but if you seriously think I still could be scum, eventhough my XP level confirms that I couldn’t have possibly killed Raya than, I have no words.

You keep doing illogical things like this. Saying Titus is ninja or godfather and now, ignoring the obvious fact that I would have been dead after NK15 shot me if I was scum. *smdh*

[Raven Branwen]

Raven if you don't read what I say and disrespect me by keep repeating a blatant lie (that I discredited your theory when all I was trying to do was trying to understand your logic behind it in a good manner), it gets really frustrating and gives me the idea that I shouldn't play with you

That’s how it looked to me because I don’t understand how Raya would be confitown had there been a no kill. I swear it is 100% not/now/never is my intention to ever disrespect you and I’m really hurt that you think I would actually be capable of that.

[Raven Branwen]

raven is extremely annoying and immature with Titus-scum goading her on

There is no basis for personal attacks. I haven’t done that. I’m legit sorry if I hurt PB’s feelings but it was never my intention to make him feel either bad or disrespected. I won’t apologize for trying to solve the game but I do honestly feel bad that my efforts in doing so upset PB to this extent but my motives for doing so were 100% pure.

[Raven Branwen]

Kill: Raven

How can I be scum with confirmed 4 XP yesterday? I was going to tell Titus that she was being unfair to you, misreading your play but if you seriously think I still could be scum, eventhough my XP level confirms that I couldn’t have possibly killed Raya than, I have no words.

You keep doing illogical things like this. Saying Titus is ninja or godfather and now, ignoring the obvious fact that I would have been dead after NK15 shot me if I was scum. *smdh*

I dont think youre scum. Youre just not fun to play with at all and i prefer to lynch you so i have more fun

. I dont know why you are so immature and useless

.

You will 100% regret this post. Totally not cool dude. I have done absolutely nothing to warrant it.

[Raven Branwen]

ame also replaced out because he cant stand you anymore. You are detrimental to everyone... you never vote titus, you always blame ame, all you do is attack confirmed town and destroy town morale and you have zero teamwork. Only thing you do is help Titus win.

Just keep it up dude. Don’t think for even a single goddamn second, I’m letting you get away with this.

[Raven Branwen]

Kill: Raven

How can I be scum with confirmed 4 XP yesterday? I was going to tell Titus that she was being unfair to you, misreading your play but if you seriously think I still could be scum, eventhough my XP level confirms that I couldn’t have possibly killed Raya than, I have no words.

You keep doing illogical things like this. Saying Titus is ninja or godfather and now, ignoring the obvious fact that I would have been dead after NK15 shot me if I was scum. *smdh*

I dont think youre scum. Youre just not fun to play with at all and i prefer to lynch you so i have more fun

. I dont know why you are so immature and useless

.

You will 100% regret this post. Totally not cool dude. I have done absolutely nothing to warrant it.

That's ABR. If you question him, you're either toxic, antitown or scum. Notice how he won't respond to how he's clear if there was no kill last night.

Trust me, he’s 100% getting dealt with. I have done absolutely nothing to warrant his personal attacks on me and he’s not getting away with this crap.

[Raven Branwen]

i regret nothing, you are the worst. Everyone is leaving a game that town should easily win.

Yeah ABR, chill dude.

You ask me to chill? You and ame are conftown and demoralized because SOMEONE is completely useless, doesnt want or is incapable of helping us win.

I think the final scum should give up and we end the game here because its extremely not fun for anyone.

Trust me, he’s 100% getting dealt with. I have done absolutely nothing to warrant his personal attacks on me and he’s not getting away with this crap.

Excuse me you are the one who started with your immature personal attacks on me. You are incredibly disrespectful and as far as this game you are only helping scare town away.

Dude ABR, town already won. I was the remaining scum, I lynched myself thinking I was putting myself into L-1, I didn't see TSE's vote on me and fucked up. It's a legit mistake, I think I had a great chance of winning this but I fucked it up. Stop fighting, game's over.

Raven I didn't get mad at you, but your reasoning was atrocious. It didn't get me frustrated because I thought I was going to get even more townreads out of our interactions.

p-edit: I'm not conftown ABR, I'm confscum. Town won.

@ABR

I’m freaking MVP dude. I expect your mea culpa and am permanently blacklisting you from any of my future games.

[Raven Branwen]

lost my shit when ame replaced out.

Titus you are unable to work with anyone your teamwork is terrible and you dont call out bad behavior when its on your side. You really only attack when its convenient to you and i find that hypocritical.

Hello pot, meet kettle. In what literal stratosphere did you even think Titus could ever be scum here? Scum-hunting genius, my ass.

[Raven Branwen]

Bahaha Titus with alisae/nk15/abr POE, everybody sees you for your terrible contributions to this game. Be happy that you won an easy one.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven you're not MVP. Ame is the MVP. Mechanics won this game and he was the most mechanical player

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but denying me proper credit is super hurtful. I wouldn’t do that to you.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven you're not MVP. Ame is the MVP. Mechanics won this game and he was the most mechanical player

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but denying me proper credit is super hurtful. I wouldn’t do that to you.

No, I did because I caught the inconsistencies in your play. You were already in my PoE PRIOR to Ame’s innoing ABR and TSE.

[Raven Branwen]

Nah, you aren't tracked clear and you didn't speculate ninja until I started to suspect you. So how are you clear?

i didn't have experience to perform a kill on n3
i don't know how this is impossible to understand?

You were mech clear via your N2 updrade + Raya kill just cemented that for me.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven you're not MVP. Ame is the MVP. Mechanics won this game and he was the most mechanical player

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but denying me proper credit is super hurtful. I wouldn’t do that to you.

You know. Eventually, your reputation will precede you. Don't worry about credit for wins.

You and I were a solid town block.

<3

I honestly don’t know which hurts more, being denied credit for a scum win due to bitter town or a town win. I think the latter because being a being town mvp has always been far more important to me than winning as scum.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven you're not MVP. Ame is the MVP. Mechanics won this game and he was the most mechanical player

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but denying me proper credit is super hurtful. I wouldn’t do that to you.

You voted me because of a lie and a fake slip. A broken clock is right twice a day. As I said, you could have come to the conclusion with "it's between Ali and PB, and I think Ali is town so it has to be PB", but you made up a whole case that has no rationality behind it.

You voted me, good job! But that's all. Don't get cocky.

p-edit: there were no inconsistencies in my play. That's my point. What you did really good this game was being a solid townread from everyone and recognizing that Titus was town. That's good enough, that fucked me, that's solid teamwork. You're a good teamwork player, don't take credit all for yourself.

I think you’re being extremely unfair to me and I 100% would not have expected that from you. I caught you because your arguing with me over my Ali frame thing super pinged me. I was tr you up until that point.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, you played well, I'm only saying you didn't catch me because of a good case, you caught me because of mechanics and PoE.

No, I caught you because I had good reads and if you insist on being hurtful and denying me that, there is literally nothing more for me to say. :/. I would 100% not do that to you, ever.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, you played well, I'm only saying you didn't catch me because of a good case, you caught me because of mechanics and PoE.

When I voted you and promised I would vengekill you, were you confident you would get out of it?

No, I actually fully expected you to go through with it. I was pissed that I was being wagonned and thought you were also scum. I didn’t suspect PB until he worked overtime to discredit my Ali frame theory and the more I thought about it, I realized that very little of his counter argument made much sense - especially Raya being killed due to being confitown and how you were so sure that scum didn’t frame Ali.

So if I was wrong on that, why did you kill Raya?

[Raven Branwen]

<3

I honestly don’t know which hurts more, being denied credit for a scum win due to bitter town or a town win. I think the latter because being a being town mvp has always been far more important to me than winning as scum.

I don't give out MVPs, but you earned respect in my book. It's rather hard to get me to walk away from my VCA but you did that, even if you were a broken clock. So take that as you will.

<3. Thank you. It was literally PB’s arguing with me over my Ali frame theory that didn’t sit right with me. I’m not sure why he killed Raya if not for that because without a kill, Raya was by no means confitown.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, you played well, I'm only saying you didn't catch me because of a good case, you caught me because of mechanics and PoE.

When I voted you and promised I would vengekill you, were you confident you would get out of it?

No, I actually fully expected you to go through with it. I was pissed that I was being wagonned and thought you were also scum. I didn’t suspect PB until he worked overtime to discredit my Ali frame theory and the more I thought about it, I realized that very little of his counter argument made much sense - especially Raya being killed due to being confitown and how you were so sure that scum didn’t frame Ali.

So if I was wrong on that, why did you kill Raya?

That last part was obviously for PB.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, you played well, I'm only saying you didn't catch me because of a good case, you caught me because of mechanics and PoE.

No, I caught you because I had good reads and if you insist on being hurtful and denying me that, there is literally nothing more for me to say. :/. I would 100% not do that to you, ever.

You keep misrepping me. I said you had good reads. I'm also saying that I legit tried to understand your logic behind the frame theory, I wasn't discrediting you, but sure, keep reading what you want to read.

Whatever your intentions, that’s 100% how it looked, because tell me how with a no kill, Raya would have been confitown? Also, why would scum not frame Ali, just because from eir pov, Raya kill made 0 sense? Do you honestly not see why I think this?

[Raven Branwen]

Oh looks like I was right at Pink Ball D3

Yep. I tried to get you unflipped before it happened. :/

Why weren’t you more active at deadline? But yeah, I had you as a practically a townlock and you were of course right.

You are one of the most underrated scumhunters on MS and this game proves that.

[Raven Branwen]

From the Mafia Thread:

"And to be clear, I really don't understand Raven's logic here. She's confbiased on Ali being town and TSE being scum, so it makes sense to her that Ali was framed. But that really doesn't makes any sense.

Also I killed Raya because he was going to be conftown and I told that in the main thread lol"

"...it does make more sense now and I'm stupid"

I didn't discredit you, I legit tried to undestand why Ali was framed. But sure, keep lying.

I’m seriously getting tilted at you now. You 100% know I’m not lying and this is really horrible for you to falsely accuse me of that. I won’t say anymore about it but hopefully you will come to your senses and apologize to me for wrongly accusing of something you know for a fact isn’t true.

[Raven Branwen]

ABR, I have no intention of ever playing with you again. The only person you show respect to is yourself and you sub out to preserve your win rate. I don't think you are healthy for the site as a whole.

+1

Nth your blacklist

[Raven Branwen]

Raya WOULD BE conftown because he would both gift XP and target whoever, making that the two actions during the night I barded him, so he wouldn't be able to make a nightkill...

Be happy Raven, you won.

How can I be happy when you A) refuse to give me proper credit? and B) falsely accuse me of lying, when you know I’m not, Stating my opinion /= lying. It’s extremely hurtful that instead of claiming I misinterpreted you, I deliberately lied. I honestly thought you knew me a lot better than that. It’s really sad that you would disrespect me to this extent because of a silly game. I am extremely disappointed in you, I expected far better from the person I know you are.

[Raven Branwen]

Lying = keep saying I discredited you when I have said at least 7 times that I was trying to understand you, that's why I said you were being disrespectful.

Why are you taking this so personal, Raven, I'm not even frustrated at you.

If being the town MVP that solved the entire game makes you happy, sure, you did it.

Stop using hyperboles towards me, Raven. It's not "really horrible" to "falsely accuse" you because I'm not doing such thing in the first place. Take a step back, I'm not attacking you.

You blatantly accused me of “lying” and how doesn’t that make it personal? I didn’t lie. If I said something incorrect, that does in no way mean I lied but that’s exactly what you accused me of, so don’t tell me that I shouldn’t be taking that personally. You know you would too.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven I found very few of the arguments you made this game to be reasonable. Additionally, your posting style is very spam-like. You spent pages discussing things we had already gone over multiple times (cases, mechanics, etc). Additionally, you're quite unfriendly despite your faults and it made it very difficult to play. I very much wanted to replace out of this game many times dealing with both heads of your slot, but the game was just so cool I had to stay. Very cool stuff S_S. I especially liked Creatures role.

Thank you for acknowledging I solved the game.

[Raven Branwen]

Yep. I tried to get you unflipped before it happened. :/

Oh yeah, I should mention this, because I do feel bad that it caused Raven so much grief and there was a bit of a failure to communicate on the part of me and tw. The bottom line here is that yeah it's unfortunate that neither of us were around to answer the crucial question, and yeah it's unfortunate that I didn't think ahead enough to extend the deadline to after I got back, but once the votes have been placed, doing anything about it is undue mod influence. Refusing to flip Creature wouldn't have repaired the gamestate, it would have compromised it further.

tl;dr: modding is hard :X

Yeah, I was really upset that Creature got hammered and @Ame, the main reason I was so pissed at you, was because I literally unvoted ABR out of respect for you and it felt that you driving a lynch on one of my most confident trs felt like you did not reciprocate that.

[Raven Branwen]

Lying = keep saying I discredited you when I have said at least 7 times that I was trying to understand you, that's why I said you were being disrespectful.

Why are you taking this so personal, Raven, I'm not even frustrated at you.

If being the town MVP that solved the entire game makes you happy, sure, you did it.

Stop using hyperboles towards me, Raven. It's not "really horrible" to "falsely accuse" you because I'm not doing such thing in the first place. Take a step back, I'm not attacking you.

You blatantly accused me of “lying” and how doesn’t that make it personal? I didn’t lie. If I said something incorrect, that does in no way mean I lied but that’s exactly what you accused me of, so don’t tell me that I shouldn’t be taking that personally. You know you would too.

You're right, shouldn't have used the word "lie" because it's not deliberate! I meant "misinterpret"

I believe you but I still don’t think with a no kill, Raya was confitown, so my theory made more sense to me but obviously it was wrong but I don’t lie and I 100% wouldn’t ever do that to you and I doubt you would ever do that to me.

So, we both misinterpreted each other but still I honestly thought you knew me well enough to know I would never do something like that, so I’m still hurt that you used that word. *shrug*

[Raven Branwen]

I forgot how triggering the word "lie" is for you, sorry!

I accept your apology and yeah saying someone lied, is basically accusing them of KNOWINGLY saying things DELIBERATELY that they 100% know to be false and I obviously wasn’t doing that.

And @Ame, I think it was understandable why I was tilted at you but but I did sincerely apologize to you for that, something you have yet to acknowledge. But I would seriously like to know how I’m responsible for anything spring did. spring 100% does owe you an apology and her behaviour towards you was definitely toxic but that’s 100% not on me.

[Raven Branwen]

I used that word because I'm not an english native speaker lol that's why I've been telling you to chill, I'm not attacking you or angry or frustrated or nothing.

And once again, your theory was good. I haven't said the opposite.

It still makes me feel like crying to be blamed by Ame and personally attacked by ABR, when I literally solved the game.

[Raven Branwen]

Stop playing mafia

The games core mechanic is about lying

You won’t find joy in this game

I think you may be misinterpreting mine and PB’s convo. I play mafia because I’m obsessed with figuring out stuff and solving riddles.

[Raven Branwen]

Stop playing mafia

The games core mechanic is about lying

You won’t find joy in this game

I think you may be misinterpreting mine and PB’s convo. I play mafia because I’m obsessed with figuring out stuff and solving riddles.

What I have trouble dealing with is unprovoked meanness. I don’t feel I anything to warrant Ame’s blame and 100% not ABR’s abuse. You especially do not expect to be shit on for literally solving the game. Thank you @Titus, for helping me to maintain my sanity.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm sorry you are hurt Raven, it's truly painful for me that you feel that way. However, I do think such experiences are necessary for healthy development. We all go through them. I make my post not out of ill-will, but with the hope that my take is something that you can reflect upon and utilize to strengthen your character. I am grateful for your apology; however, apologies without the accompanying behavioral changes are only half complete. There were many times where you said something mean to someone this game out of nowhere, and while you did apologize for a couple of them later, the pattern of lashing out and expressing remorse when pressed seems to be persistent and something I think you should work on.

I also think you should work on looking at the game from other players' points of view and from an objective standpoint. For example, your reaction to the Creature lynch and your continued justification of the reaction is unwarranted. We were always going to lynch a town member that day. Everyone was pushing town members that were within their PoE. Your PoE was not the only PoE. You and Titus were making pushes for NK and ABR, both players who I had argued were clear, at the time when I made the Creature push.

Lastly, threatening to blacklist someone for an in-game disagreement is wholly unacceptable and itself should be a blacklistable offense as it is using outside influence to affect the game. Please never do that again. Regarding the content of your play and playstyle, I'll do a full analysis if I find the time and motivation and private message you. If you have any further response regarding any of this, please PM me.

I would honestly love to know why you continue to disregard what I told you. I gave you an explanation, which for some inexplicable reason you continue to fail to address, so your reaction isn’t logically warranted unless/until you actually attempt to address my reasons and at least make some good faith effort to even try to view it from my perspective. All I’m continuing to hear from you is continued criticism and blame and I might actually be open to that, if you weren’t blatantly refusing to address literally ANY of my extremely valid points. I would be very open to a good faith open and reasonable dialogue with you but all I continue to read from you is more reasons why in your esteemed opinion, I apparently suck, despite my literally solving this game and yes I am very sadly reconciled to you never giving me the credit for that I deserve

If you banned every player on here who ever threatened a blacklist, there would be few players left to even play games and as far as I know that isn’t against the rules but otoh, threatening to policy lynch someone in future games actually is and is bannable. What is the obvious difference? One is a player’s personal right, the other one is straight up manipulation and bullying.

I cannot take anything you’re saying seriously until you at least acknowledge my arguments, I’m not even holding out hope at this time that you will even ever address them, which I find extremely disheartening, because how do you expect us to come to any kind of understanding at all, when your entire argument seems to be based on, that you’re 100% right, where I am 100% wrong in my assessment of the situation and unless you honestly think you’re literally perfect and played a flawless game yourself, if you’re being 100% honest with yourself, you’d have to acknowledge that the truth lies somewhere in the middle but I’ve done my part in trying to work this out but the onus is on you to try and meet me half way and if you are unwilling to do this, you aren’t being honest with me, let alone yourself.

That’s what I already apologized for the blacklist thing and you continue to refuse to accept it and throw it in my face. You claim that I apparently haven’t learned from this. Why? Because I considered ABR’s comments to me abusive and actually justfying that? That as Titus already pointed out is actually a valid reason to blacklist a player, so that I make no apologies for nor should I.

[Raven Branwen]

I am sincerely trying to manage my emotions more productively and yes, I’m working extremely hard on that. If you prefer to believe this is in any way, shape or form, even slightly being disingenuous on my part, I honestly don’t know how to convince you otherwise.

Your play frequently unnerved me like after you pretty much implied I was obvtown, you literally tried to drive a mislynch on me. That literally freaked me out and yes, I was in complete shock at that and probably did not handle it as gracefully as I ideally would like. I don’t think I’ve ever played before with anyone quite like you, whose reads apparently change with the wind or that’s definitely how it looked to me. I found your constantly changing your reads, extremely difficult to deal with and I felt that it was constantly destabilizing the game. Yes, you did hurt me. It’s literally a first for me to get shit on after I solved a game and I’m still having a great deal of trouble wrapping my brain around that. At the very least, I should merit some acknowledgement for correctly identifying PB as the last scum but I’m not holding my breath, since despite your claiming that hurting me “pains” you, you continue to do this and fail to give me any credit whatsoever in solving the game and yes, PB was in my PoE before your TSE/ABR clears.

[Raven Branwen]

Scum topic open: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=82697

Subject: Mini 2133 Mafia Topic

so, recap of actions (even if we are past deadline, but a recap is also useful to us later):

Farkset watches Ame
Pinkball trains

Knightmare kills Flight of the Conchords

Mafia sabotages Hectic

re bolded: Woot! Knew it, damn I’m good. *pats self on back*

[Raven Branwen]

Subject: Mini 2133 Mafia Topic

And to be clear,

I really don't understand Raven's logic here. She's confbiased on Ali being town and TSE being scum, so it makes sense to her that Ali was framed. But that really doesn't makes any sense.

Also I killed Raya because he was going to be conftown and I told that in the main thread lol

Too be clear, my main reason for being suspicious of TSE is that I didn’t/and still don’t understand how he only had 2 XP instead of 3.

@mod, can you confirm or not: Did every player start out on Day 1 with 1 XP or not?

. I’m seriously still confused by that.

I knew Ali was town, the minute he dismantled Hectic wagon and with eir XP claims checking out plus, e never ever kills Raya here.

Yes, my Ali frame theory may have been incorrect but your response to it screamed tmi to me at some level and Ame was obviously correct about you targeting her (I will have to read her role pm to understand how she knew.). She cleared Titus the previous day and TSE and ABR the next, that only left you and Ali as the uncleared slots and Ali was already obvtown to me, so based on PoE, it had to be you, so when you made that slip up about both barding and training on the same night, I pounced.

[Raven Branwen]

Subject: Mini 2133 Mafia Topic

And to be clear,

I really don't understand Raven's logic here. She's confbiased on Ali being town and TSE being scum, so it makes sense to her that Ali was framed. But that really doesn't makes any sense.

Also I killed Raya because E was going to be conftown and I told that in the main thread lol

Too be clear, my main reason for being suspicious of TSE is that I didn’t/and still don’t understand how he only had 2 XP instead of 3.

@mod, can you confirm or not: Did every player start out on Day 1 with 1 XP or not?

. I’m seriously still confused by that.

I knew Ali was town, the minute he dismantled Hectic wagon and with eir XP claims checking out plus, e never ever kills Raya here.

Yes, my Ali frame theory may have been incorrect but your response to it screamed tmi to me at some level and Ame was obviously correct about you targeting her (I will have to read her role pm to understand how she knew.). She cleared Titus the previous day and TSE and ABR the next, that only left you and Ali as the uncleared slots and Ali was already obvtown to me, so based on PoE, it had to be you, so when you made that slip up about both barding and training on the same night, I pounced.

[Raven Branwen]

Game's already over. And I wrote that before I understood what you meant by your frame.

I’m aware. Yes, understand but my point being, that it was actually the tmi aspect of your contesting my theory pinged me more than you disagreeing with it. The specific way that you phrased your argument, just read like you almost KNEW - which obviously turned out to be the case.

And once again, it wasn't a slip... That's how my role worked.

So, your role did actually allow you to bard and train simultaneously? If so, you can blame the mod for that.

[Raven Branwen]

The mod very clearly indicated that day actions and night actions were separate and that training couldn't be done with any other actions in the same NIGHT.

And once again, it wasn't a slip... That's how my role worked.

I is extremely confuzzled.

[Raven Branwen]

The mod very clearly indicated that day actions and night actions were separate and that training couldn't be done with any other actions in the same NIGHT.

And once again, it wasn't a slip... That's how my role worked.

I is extremely confuzzled.

And

@Something_Smart, are you ever going to answer my question regarding if everyone all started with 1XP on D1 or not, because I still don’t understand how TSE only had 2?

[Raven Branwen]

Everyone started with 1 XP, except for Flight of the Conchords, who started with 2. All night actions and XP amounts are in the mod PT. TSE had 3 XP for most of the game.

What about PB's role are you confused about?

Well, he claimed it wasn’t a slip up on his part, so how can that be possible if you’re not allowed to train and bard on the same night?