Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[Adel]

y'all should not have massclaimed.

fos:

farside

[Adel]

hrrmm, I do not have a handle on this game yet. Please be patient.

[Adel]

Day 1, you have a 1/3 shot of hitting scum by randomly lynching.

Day 2, you have a 2/5 shot of hitting scum by randomly lynching.

It's actually 2/5 day 1, since you can take out your own group, since you know yourself and partner.

The chance is actually better than you say.

A random lynch to start off, at least, can help kick-start something, anyway.

this really reads to me like the work of a newbie with 62 total game posts who doesn't quite understand the setup. What is scummy about a mistaken newbie having a horrible idea?

I understand the setup.

[Adel]

vote kloud

Because if everyone was on the same team... thats one big orgy. Amirite?

my lover's single post. defintely a sign of a genius scum plot to convince the town to random-lynch itself into extinction.

So who is responable for pushing a case that the two rawest newbies in the game were trying to get the town to adopt a fatal strategy?

[Adel]

armix: a question with a question? give me a break. I never saif it was a large plot. The daytalk is funny.

@farside: virtually every game I play.

[Adel]

Seriously, the quicktopic chat is funny. Jebus honestly thought it was a good idea for the town to random lynch both days. He even used fractions to "prove" it.

[Adel]

paraphrased quicktopic thread:

xtox opens thread

Jebus: We should random lynch someone since we only have to kill one scum to win and there is no night phase. Day 1 our chances are 2/5, and day 2 wit will be 3/5, so overal it will be 50/50. I will introduce the idea. We should roleclaim early.
3jf: early roleclaim will just make us a target. We should random lynch though.
3jf: Also we should vote for somebody different every two days to avoid suspicion.
Day 1 you should fos, and then I'll vote for them.
Day 2 we both pick separate people scummy people
Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

xtoxm closes thread

[Adel]

I think that townies would be more worried about finding scum than avoiding suspicion themselves.

I agree. Most other I people I have discussed that with do.

I kind of suspect that thier understanding of the setup was so incompleat that they (both of them) thought that as lovers they needed to avoid being suspected of being lovers.

Can 3fj shed some light on this?

[Adel]

I think that townies would be more worried about finding scum than avoiding suspicion themselves.

I agree. Most other I people I have discussed that with do.

I kind of suspect that thier understanding of the setup was so incompleat that they (both of them) thought that as lovers they needed to avoid being suspected of being lovers.

Can 3fj shed some light on this?

That doesn't add up to me.

Vote: Adel

dude it really doesn't make sense to me either, but I can't think of a more reasonable explaination for why they wanted to avoid suspicion.

[Adel]

Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

This is the line that really gets me. Pre-game plans to attack a given player?

yep. for the "random" lynch even.

[Adel]

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

unvote, vote:armix

[Adel]

hint to the other townies: I wrote this setup and I have already won as town once under this setup. The key to winning is to build more than one legitimate wagon on day 1 if the town is going to have a chance to win after a day 1 mislynch. The first run of polygamist mafia also saw a newbie get lynched for being an idiot (including self-voting) which is common in many games on this site. Under this setup, the "lynch the village idiot for being the most scummy looking on day 1" tactic yeilds very little information.

I adore this setup because it simplifies mafia. Scum cannot bus. Scum cannot NK players for being obviously protown. The town can't follow the cop, and there are no roles that discorage pro-town players from being actively involved.

I highly suggest that other townies take a close look at other players, in addition to me. Trying to identify which player is managing to push my wagon in such a way as to avoid being held accountable for it will go a long way towards winning this game for the town.

[Adel]

1. check the math.
2. dcorbe was "really scummy" from the perspective of all players.

[Adel]

Hi.

As you reread, who do you see as being responsible for the attempted lynching of the newbies?

[Adel]

I accept that I', going to be the lynch for today, but I think it is a terrible play for the town to lynch us without seriously examining other options.

I think armix should be quicklynched tomorrow.

This is where we need adel. One of those diagram thingies would be great here.

If he were town, I would received a much different reception from armix in this game.

[Adel]

Circumstances drastically changed from the time of that quote.

yes, I replaced the newbie that was targeted for a mislynch, and you are the chief driver of that wagon.

I'm sick of seeing these wagons built against new players whose major fault is an incomplete understanding of the game.

Why would scum group two newbies together for the claimed lover pair? Wouldn't it make much more sense for one experienced player to be paired with on inexperienced player?

With four players in the scum group, wouldn't one of them have enough experience to point out the flaws to 3jf and Jebus that their plan was riddled with? The very fact that Jebus forwarded such a hair-brained idea should go a long way towards proving that he was a member of a group of two with another newbie, and not a group of four.

Seriously, when I am lynched and proven to be town, where is that going to leave the rest of the town? very few leads to follow up on, and in lynch-or-lose.

[Adel]

Adel:

Why would scum group two newbies together for the claimed lover pair? Wouldn't it make much more sense for one experienced player to be paired with on inexperienced player?

It might, it might not. They set up the newbie excuse on those 2 and the experienced pair fends off attacks like none other.

right, and where exactly are those posts that "fends off attacks like none other"?

[Adel]

right, and where exactly are those posts that "fends off attacks like none other"?

I doubt the experience pair has been under attack and needed to fend off them just yet.

If I was scum, and got lynched, then this hypothetical experienced pair would also be lynched. You would think that would have defended me, or at least started a wagon against a different person by now, with deadline approaching.

If you haven't played mafia long enough yet to tell when a wagon is going to lead to a mis-lynch, take a close look at this one so you can remember it in the future.

[Adel]

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

unvote, vote:armix

Ah, so Adel is all about lynching a player while once again strawmanning his case in order to justify the vote. Got it. That would be the second time Adel has employed fallacy-induced arguments/reasoning into the game.

vote: Adel

I am going to directly quote from my post 163:

Even if they were newbies, as I said before in post, a suspicious suggestion is still a suspicious suggestion, no matter if the person who suggested it decides to defend it. I think this holds true for a "raw newbie" suggesting a scummy plan as well, for they are just as likely to be scum as anyone else, and are therefore just as likely to make mistakes. Not all newbies are as oblivious as you seem to be attempting to portray them.

This still applies. Jebus and 3fj both agreed on a plan that was suspicious in itself, but with the paraphrased conversation you provided, you have just revealed that they had no intentions of it being a random vote, as Jebus intended on targeting someone (me) in particular while 3fj thought it best to vote someone else in order to avoid suspicion. I would like to note that even after saying this, 3fj still voted for me, which leads me to believe that they both intended on keeping their votes on me in the "random" Day 1 vote as shocking as that might be. This is scummy play, no matter how many in-game posts either of them have.

They did pick a player at random: you. They picked you before the game even started. You are correct that it is horrible play, which has been my point all along. Crap-logic and horrible play can be scum-tells, but it should be clear that in this case they are probably the result of inexperience.

Armix is not following up on any other suspects, so my post "so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon" still stands. It is not a "strawman" rather it is a clear and concise description of what is happening.

[Adel]

I think Adel makes a good point about nobody standing up to defend. I need to look through and see if this is actually the case, but if so, that's a fairly solid observation and would certainly suggest this being a mislynch.

Thanks. Something else to consider: why did I wait this long to start a vigorous defense of myself?

[Adel]

Thanks. Something else to consider: why did I wait this long to start a vigorous defense of myself?

It's a trap? Is that your point?

rope-a-dope does work better in mafia than it works in boxing.

[Adel]

Adel could you do a vote chart for me please. I need to read through some things and a vote chart helps me.

considering that I am still at lynch -1, and how much work those diagrams require, I am not inclined to make one at this time. I really hate it when I am almost done with one only to see that I have been lynched.

[Adel]

Fine, can we all agree to not hammer until the chart is done then?

give me two unvotes and five calander days, and I will do one.

[Adel]

what would you say is the last vote of the random voting stage? I always drop all of the random votes unless they are not unvoted at some point during the day.

[Adel]

ok, I'm on it then.

[Adel]

raw data: please help spot mistakes

Votecount at post 76:
Zoolander (2) kloud1516, Jahudo
Farside22 (0)
The Pope's Tiara (1) armlx
LlamaFluff (0)
Goatrevolt (1) Caboose
Jahudo (1) Zoolander
OpposedForce (0)
armlx (1) Farside22
Caboose (2) OpposedForce, Goatrevolt
3fj (1) The Pope's Tiara
kloud1516 (2) Jebus, 3fj
Jebus (1) LlamaFluff
(all of these votes that are not unvoted will be dropped from the dataset)

85 – armlx votes Jebus
95 – farside22 votes LlamaFluff
112 - kloud1516 unvotes (does not say who)
116 - OpposedForce unvotes (says caboose)
118 – LlamaFluff votes OpposedForce
126 – OpposedForce votes LlamaFluff
135 – Jahudo votes 3fj
165 – Caboose unvotes (says Goatrevolt)
171 - Citizen Karne votes Adel
174 – Caboose votes Adel
187 – Opposedforce votes Adel
190 – Adel votes armlx
192 – kloud1516 votes Adel
193 – Jahudo unvotes 3fj
208 – StrangerCoug unvotes
209 – StrangerCoug votes Adel
210 – StrangerCoug votes armlx
228 – Empking unvotes
239 – Empking votes Adel
279 – armlx unvotes
283 – kloud1516 unvotes

should I also include fos's?

[Adel]

lover pairs with replacements:

StrangerCoug

Zoolander

|

Citizen Karne

The Pope's Tiara

Farside22

|

Caboose

Empking

LlamaFluff

|

Goatrevolt

OpposedForce

|

Jahudo

armlx

|

kloud1516

Mana_Ku

3fj

|

Adel

Jebus

[Adel]

At home I use a mac, at work I have to use microsoft's crappy software, so I apologise for how crude this is.

lines show votes, the numbers are the vote numbers. Unvotes are shown as numbered boxes that are not connected to players. votes labeled with the number 75 are votes that remain from the mods votecount at 75 which I used as the end of the random stage.

Feel free to ask any questions about the chart, it is not as clean as I prefer, but I hate using microsoft word to do these.

[Adel]

armlx, Citizen Karne, Caboose, OpposedForce and Kloud1516 were all on my wagon when Empyking placed me at lynch -1 with post 239. The next vote action after me getting placed at lynch -1 was armix's unvote at post 279, which was 36 hours later. Which one of those is supposed to be my scumbuddy?

[Adel]

armlx, Citizen Karne, Caboose, OpposedForce and Kloud1516 were all on my wagon when Empyking placed me at lynch -1 with post 239. The next vote action after me getting placed at lynch -1 was armix's unvote at post 279, which was 36 hours later. Which one of those is supposed to be my scumbuddy?

My gut doesn't like this question, but my logic is processing it as rhetorical. It is of note, however.

If I were scum would a scumbuddy of mine really leave a vote on me while I was at lynch -1?

It is not rhetorical: I would like the courtesy of an answer, especially from those that are still voting for me as well as from armlx since he promised to revote me once I provided the requested information.

[Adel]

oh shit, look at votes 238 and 239.

I find it odd that Adel would post her comments made and what the 2 people said (which what they said is incredibly scummy) but the fact she left those scummy comments in there where she could have made the whole thing up seems like WIFOM.

I think Adel's expectation was that we would see their suggestions and brush them off as newbies and give them a free pass. I don't see why summarizing some of a night conversation really means anything one way or another.

Anyway, I still need to reread the last few pages. My current top suspect is Adel, and the majority of my suspicion is based on the way she defended herself by strawmanning the nature of the attacks against her, and thus trying to make those attacks appear weaker than they are. I'll just stick with a

FoS Adel

for now until I look at a vote count.

two hours later:

Mana_ku: I really don't like the, I'll give you my link. It screams "look at me I'm pro-town" without actualoly being pro-town. Anoyingly, it'd be a waste to vote man_ku because if I want her lynch I should vote for Adel.

Adel: Adel hasn't really done anything scummy. Its Jebus with her plan of "random vote excluding me or my partner". And that's in my opinion crazy scummy. The chat log has confused me but it definately hasn't cleared him.

Strangercoug:m In both forms hasn't really done much. Couldn't call it lurking either.

Citizen Karne: In the case of Adel being town he'll look scummy (and I'll give him another lookover) but with the information that we have I think he's a tunnle vision town.

Armix: If Adel does turn up town we might need to look back on him. As I've got the page where he mentioned popcorning open, I think I should mention that. He seems a tad tunnle visioned but he looks pro-town to me.

Kloud: Its weird to think he's Armix's partner. I really don't like the way he unvoted when Adel came. This might be a player just trying to attack the newbies. Apart from that his posts seem good contents wise.

Opposedforce: His early posts seem to be just making mistakes or apolagising for mistakes. Despite that I don't think he's scum. He also proposed mass claim.

Jah: I really don't know what to say about him. When I was reading the latter pages I had forgotten about him. I don't think he's scum and he seems pro-town to me. After my own, I think this is the most pro-town pair.

Caboose: He (apart from in his chat anylisis) doesn't seem to have a mind of his own. Going as far as saying he'll just go with tyhe majority.

Farside: I feel like he's focused on Armix. I don't even think he's given anything to support his suspicions.

Vote: Adel

six hours later (meanwhile Empking made 8 other posts in other games)

That's L-1.

unvote, vote:Empking

[Adel]

EBWOP: (meanwhile Empking made 8 other posts

in other games

on this site

)

[Adel]

So who could possibly be scum with us?

[Adel]

If Adel is scum, then I think one of his scumbuddies is the same guy that my vote's on—armlx.

If that's the case then this whole thing was an attempt to distance from each other knowing that none can die while the other lives. So once they got to L-1 he did unvote but under this pretense of a diagram. I can't find any point where they showed hesitance in what they were doing though.

Also that brings back a question about Jebus and if this was part of a larger plan with his other scum pair. What would be the safe position for them to play if they knew Jebus would be wagoned? Could the ones who started the wagon have the confidence that they could redirect it before it goes to far?

Any scum theory that requires Jebus to play well is incorrect.

There is nothing safe about leaving a scumbuddy at lynch -1. I very easily could have been hammered.

Farside asked for the diagram. I requested that players unvote while I worked on it, and kloud and armlx unvoted. If they were scum with me, wouldn't they have been the ones asking for a diagram?

And SC, you had some comment about Adel's post (289). Now that you've seen why we were asking this question, can you give an answer to it?

If Adel is scum, then I think one of his scumbuddies is the same guy that my vote's on—armlx.

is there anyone else I could be scum with?

[Adel]

Adel, I'd like an answer.

to what question?

[Adel]

1. You should've known that your vote would put me at lynch -1
2. The slight push your declared lover gave my wagon with 238 would encourage someone to hammer.
3. When you voted for me members from each other couple were already voting for me. Bussing under this setup is suicide.
4. You are clearly setting up kloud and armlx to take the fall when I am proven to be town.
5. Your claimed lover is serving as an echo chamber for reciting the points made against me and Jebus, but he has not voted for me. Pushing a wagon without committing to it is scummy.
6. I expect that after getting me lynched day 1 you expected to be able to push for armlx/kloud or farside/caboose mis-lynch on day 2.

[Adel]

Next time, please use the "quote" button and post again so that it is clear what each of your lines are in reply to.

Yes, L-1 isn't dangerous in this set up.

It was their to encourage people to hammer before hammering was possible?

The effect of his vote followed by your vote was to leave me at lynch -1 with a preponderance of voices calling me scummy and saying that I should be the day's lynch.

Caboose hasn't voted for six days. Voting for your scum partner isn't suicide especially if your partners can use that as their only defense.

Ah, so getting everyone to vote for me was a clever scum gambit, part of the plan those twin geniuses Jebus and 3fj developed before the game began.

Why no mention of Karne.

Why are you trying to deflect attention away from yourself? If there is something distinctly scummy about Karne that I don't see, please point it out. I can't be suspicious of everyone that is on my wagon: it has to include townies.

He didn't want to accidently lynch you. I agree, very scummy.

Who is "he"?

Still no mention of Karne. Also, any proof for that?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[Adel]

Yes, L-1 isn't dangerous in this set up.

please tell me that this is a typo.

[Adel]

you called both Karne and armlx townie in the post I quoted.

I find Armix responsible but I do agree with him.

Unvote

this post would be the difference between your attention towards armlx and your attention towards Karne.

Do you intentionally post in a manner that makes it difficult to place your posts in context?

He didn't want to accidently lynch you. I agree, very scummy.

by placing me at lynch -1 you made it very possible for someone else to accidentally lynch me.

[Adel]

Please, how has L-1 been dangerous?

Considering that his scum partner voting for him has been his only defense (if he's scum) it isn't a straw man.

How is it a straw man?

in a 12 player game with a rapid wagon, an unannounced lynch-1 vote makes it easy to accidentally hammer someone that is widely suspected of being scum.

After armlx warned that I was at lynch -1. 36 hours passed during which your lover could have voted for me, or any off the other players whose lover was voting for me could have hammered me. It wouldn't have been an especially scummy hammer either: the "everyone thought he was scum so I hammered" defense would have been pretty convincing.

[Adel]

Don't any of the other players in this game have anything to say about these recent developments?

I would really like those who are still voting for me to carefully read every post since I posted my diagram, and then to explain who they think I am scum with.

[Adel]

@Jahudo: why aren't you voting for anyone?

[Adel]

keep in mind that hammering isn't necessary for a mislynch. Deadline rules kill just as effectively as a hammer does.

I am more suspicious of E.King/Goat and Farside/Caboose than I am of Karne/StrangerCoug right now.

[Adel]

And armlx, at post 273 you say something about a comment. Can we hear it now or does it still have to wait?

I think Emp responded, but I wanted to say that not pro-town != scummy always.

Jahudo has been waffling on Adel/Jebus all game. Me no like. Supports the Caboose + Adel team theory.

Vote Adel

as I said post diagram.

Do you think that Caboose and Jahudo are lovers?

[Adel]

Apologies. Been busy over the past week. Picking up prod.

paraphrased quicktopic thread:

xtox opens thread

Jebus: We should random lynch someone since we only have to kill one scum to win and there is no night phase. Day 1 our chances are 2/5, and day 2 wit will be 3/5, so overal it will be 50/50. I will introduce the idea. We should roleclaim early.
3jf: early roleclaim will just make us a target. We should random lynch though.
3jf:

Also we should vote for somebody different every two days to avoid suspicion.

Day 1 you should fos, and then I'll vote for them.
Day 2 we both pick separate people scummy people

Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

xtoxm closes thread

Wow. I was inclined not to vote Jebus but this is just to off the chart for me.

Vote:Adel

At the beggining of the game I didn't really put a vote on (him/her?) because I thought it was a town slip but now after seeing this paraphrase I can't comprehend what kind of a mess that intention would of gotten us into. Note the first part bolded when 3jf suggests to vote for someone different to avoid suspicion. It wouldn't be for the town's well being to push a random lynch on different people and have the chance of mislynching to save yourself of suspicion. I see scum trying to mislynch and at the same time avoid any suspicion.

The second bolded part is ridiculous and scummy. I can only see scum trying to aim for a townie to lynch with the whole diversion of randomly lynching to get them to victory. If they were town thinking the idea of randomly lynching then why choose a specific person? (in this case Kloud) Why not go along with town consensus to choose a random lynch instead of trying to aim for a person. It seems to me like scum choosing a townie then wanting to lynch them Day 1 to safely get them to Day 2.

so you think this is the post of a player playing with fire by voting for a scum-mate whose lynch would end the game with a scum loss?

[Adel]

here is the vital part: the town only gets to lynch wrong once.

The typically lazy day 1 where some random newbie gets lynched for being an idiot gives scum a big advantage.

As a replacement I walked into a mess. After being asked to post the contents of the quicktopic thread I figured that honesty was the only way to go. Now that I have collected at least one vote from each other couple, any theory that has me as scum has to explain which proposed scum-mate of mine voted for me, and left that vote there as the votes piled up and with the deadline approaching.

[Adel]

unvote Empking, vote armlx

but I would rather wagon Empking

[Adel]

mod: can you send out prods to those that need them?

[Adel]

With three days to go until deadline ti is looking like my odds for survival are slim.

This is a setup that sharply penalized towns that go for the lazy day 1 lynch.

I really hope that all townies give some thought to the posts I've made since the diagram I posted. The reason I kept on asking who could possibly be scum with me was because, as I see it, each other townie couple should be able to conclude that there is one and only one other couple that I could possibly be scum with. By lynching that couple, my townieness could be confirmed. I was hoping for some clear thinking and good posting by other townies, but that isn't happening. I do not like the shift from Empking to armlx, but I am supporting the armlx lynch because he is not me. Empking is not an "easy mislynch" and my opinion of his alignment is not based off of the formatt he uses to make his posts. At this point, that seems to be splitting hairs, when the majority of the town seems to be unaware that my wagon is leading to a pretty obvious mislynch.

Bussing in this game is suicide, and Empking placed me at lynch -1 without

anyone

doing anything to defend Mana_Ku and me.

It is horribly ironic that the townies on my wagon are making the same mistake that Jebus made: not understanding the set-up.

[Adel]

@Mana_Ku: please vote for armlx soonest. <3 Adel

[Adel]

I would rather lynch Goatrevolt/Empyking than armlx.

[Adel]

If it was dangerous Adel would be dead by now.

If I wasn't an especially strong player, I would be dead right now.

[Adel]

I have finally read the thread.

My main problem is that the deadline is, well,

tomorrow

, and we don't seem to have any proper consensus at all.

Mod:

Due to the increase in activity and replacements, would a deadline extension be in order?

Also, can those voting for amlx please explain why they are? I really need a case, since I am quite puzzled as to why he has 4 votes at the moment.

I do have a longer post coming, but thought I hsould get this post out first.

the case on armlx: I am (almost) confirmed town, and he was super eager to get me quickly lynched.

[Adel]

2. Is anyone currently voting for armix, thinking about voting for armix, or voting for Adel because they don't want to see armix lynched, open to/would be more confident switching to a non-Adel and non-armix lynch? Why or why not?

I'm open to a Empking lynch.

4. If you had a backup vote, who would it be on?

Empking

[Adel]

Unvote, Vote Karne

I wasn't happy with armlx being the lynch, but I'm perfectly willing to place Karne at five votes for the deadline lynch.

[Adel]

Adel: Can you rank lover pairs from scummiest -> least scummy?

I don't think I want to post that information right now. Since we are going into night soon if we don't win the game out-right, I don't want to give the scum information that will help them figure out during their night-talk who the best person to try to mislynch during day 2 is.

[Adel]

they were all within a rather narrow band, in terms of % chance of being scum. After thinking about it, I started to take into consideration which lynch would be the most informative.

[Adel]

vote: farside

read up and post lots, please.

[Adel]

vote: farside

read up and post lots, please.

Especially as I defended you. Nice

You knew I was town, and refused to vote for your scumbuddy armlx.

(btw, I'm 2-0 as town in Polygamist games now)

[Adel]

Jenethron: Do I know you from another game or something? I see you state you think I'm vocal and if you are trying to meta me. I suggest not since I play different no matter my alignment.

Apologies. You are right that in order to get an effective meta, I will need to look at a game you have completed as town and scum. Give me a day or two. In one game I was reading you were distinctly more active, however. Clearly, as you state, this is insufficient.

Meanwhile, I'm becoming increasingly more nervous about Adel's play.

don't buy her crap excuses.

farside has an average of 14 posts a day on this site since she joined mafiascum.

if you go to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... =farside22 you can see how many posts she makes in other games in between her posts in this game.

She has made more than 75 posts since Sept. 4th.

She is lurking in this game.

[Adel]

Furthermore, I will be doing my own meta on farside using her recent completed games, so will thus be able to tell myself what is going on. So I am not "buying her crap excuses" either.

Why did you vote for Citizen Karne yesterday?

because armlx and myself were the alternatives. I disliked both. armlx's lynch would be pretty non-informative compared with CKs.

Why do people in game after game accuse me of going after "easy" targets? Is it the newest crap to accuse someone of that doesn't require any supporting evidence? I've played with farside a a few (3?) games before, she is not an easy target.

She is lurking. She did not vote for armlx. She recognized me as being town, but didn't really do anything to defend me. She played in the first run of Polygamist mafia and would've seen right away that I was town based off that experience, but she was not vocal in this game even while she was actively posting in other games.

Why did you vote for Citizen Karne?

[Adel]

Why do people in game after game accuse me of going after "easy" targets? Is it the newest crap to accuse someone of that doesn't require any supporting evidence? I've played with farside a a few (3?) games before, she is not an easy target.

How truly ironic.

please note that farside has 4344 game-posts on this site. Jebus has less than 150. I have 4488. In my experience, a person that is easy to lynch will always have less than 1000 game posts, and usually less than 200.

[/quote]
At this point I'm waiting for a post out of farside, and I'd like one out of caboose as well outlining who he thinks is scum.

Also, Adel, can you provide that list I asked for yesterday? It's obviously less meaningful in the context of my original reasons for asking, but I'm still interested in seeing it.[/quote]
list:
1. farside
2. armlx
3. Empyking
4. Jahudo

[Adel]

almost 5k game posts, and I still can't do quote tags right. damnit.

[Adel]

Farside, at this moment that isn't the point to me. I leave this discussion to you and Adel for now. However, we all received if I'm correct that there would be in 24 hours a deadline. If you received it, then why didn't you check this game. I've been some time online and I saw you post in other games during these 24 hours. Can you explain this?

this pairs nicely with my point. Why hasn't farside been posting in this game since I became active in it? She has found plenty of time to post in other games... and we did have a deadline and

three close wagons to choose between

~~~

@armlx: I like this setup because it is an elegent puzzle where in order to catch scum you have to first figure out who can't be scum with whom and who is town. There simply isn't enough days in this game for attrition to reveal who is scum, townies have to use logic to have a chance.

Leaving you alive makes it easier for other townies to "crack" this game since it should be pretty obvious that you and I can't be scum together.

[Adel]

FYI: I'm not lurking for some reason some games are just hard for me to get thru. My other problem is I'm trying to rid myself of my thoughts on Llama as it is meta more then anything else. I don't always agree with Meta, so people put it on themselves and some times it works. I don't want to stand on this meta feel and I just can't shake it.
To explain a bit. I learned Llama is not one who enjoys being mafia. When he asked to be replaced when I probbed that bothered me a lot as he too is a big time poster. Him lurking and asking to be replaced has yet to really left me feeling good.

Llama posted frequently as scum in open 70. You're correct that Llama prefers to play town over scum, but I don't think you can really say that him asking to be replaced was a direct result of that. I know Llama is a college student, and I wouldn't be surprised if his replacement/lowered activity was a result of going back to school. I know that was the case for myself.

check out http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... &start=325
he has made 335 posts on mafiascum.net since his last post in this game.
he posted an incredible amount of posts (more than 50) between his last post in this game and when Empking replaced him.

[Adel]

no object here. I think Empyking should post his first. He is online, and scummy as hell.

[Adel]

IMHO llamafluff needs to claim the rest of their chat, and quickly. The longer this process takes, the more time scum have to figure out what they are going to say.

[Adel]

I'm requesting replacement in all of my games, including this one.
I apologize to all of you for not fulfilling the commitment I made by joining this game.

[Adel]

Well, the game's over. Set up discussion time.

This set up is fundamentally flawed in that it starts off favoring the town (see the whole random lynch thing), while at the same time it maximizes the effects and ease of scum hunting. I expect town win percentage in this set up given even play skills on both sides is at least 70%.

I expect you didn't accurately account for the fact that all of the town -1 have to vote a scum player on day 1, and they all have to vote the same scum player on day 2. There is nothing random about either day's lynch beyond which townie gets lynched.

Sorry I replaced out, but I just got really sick of playing mafia. I hadn't taken a break since I started playing in May of last year.

[Adel]

Goatrevolt is absolutely correct about waiting until early day 2 (or very late day 1) to make a mass lover claim.

The hypothetical "random lynch" will never happen in this set-up. Scum do not have to lynch each each other, and will not lynch each other. The random result is not a valid starting point for set-up analysis. A scum team that establishes a plan to vote each other to lynch -1 will consistently win in games where the town attempts to use voting analysis to find scum.