Morning Tweet's Normal Review, August 2020
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
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Hi!! I came up with this and then realized the many nightmares the setup has approximately half an hour later
For instance, I believe I under gauged the amount of power town is supposed to have. I believe the rule was something like "4 decent PRs", but I somehow managed to give every PR drawback
The Weak FN can accidentally kill himself (although it lets him play like an investigative)
The gunsmith has one false innocent (Although I made him aware of it)
The doctor might be in trouble because the gunsmith knows theres a mafia doctor (This I did not realize when I made it)
and 2-shot commuter isnt a very good role, will probably have to swap that one out
>.<
I generally like setups where PRs can be misused if they do not play well (FN has chance to misplay, Gunsmith has to use his judgment since he can only be mostly sure of his innos, commuter has to actively use his ability), but I might have hurt town a bit too much here-
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
- Team Mafia Winner
- Team Mafia Winner
- Posts: 10586
- Joined: September 5, 2016
- Pronoun: She
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
- Team Mafia Winner
- Team Mafia Winner
- Posts: 10586
- Joined: September 5, 2016
- Pronoun: She
**scumsidedMorning Tweet wrote:I'm getting the feeling the setup is town sided because, while I think he's pretty powerful, the weak friendly neighbour has the potential to throw away a ton of towns power if he isnt careful.
thank you! I'm glad having the gunsmith aware there's an incorrect result was a decent idea, I don't like the idea of fake results much but I also want the investigative to have to think about his results a littleIn post 5, northsidegal wrote:i like a lot of your thinking in your design logic (and i appreciate you including that a lot – i always end up asking people for it anyways because it helps me know what direction to try to take the setup in). if you want a gunsmith / maf doc combo, i think having the gunsmith be informed of this is a pretty good idea. weak friendly neighbor is a cool role, although personally i consider the "weak" part as less of a downside than you seem to – you say that if one scum is doing well enough that they essentially disable the friendly neighbor, but i think that in a lot of scenarios (at least with a halfway competent FN), that really just means a guilty on that scum member. again, kind of depends on whether a newbie or more experienced player is the WFN, but still
Ah, I forgot that if the FN is careful they'll make sure town knows who they visited. so that's good then!
I'm unsure how to prevent the investigatives from being invincible after they claim while the doctor is alive. There are already lot of nerfs to town power as it is, so maybe I could give scum something weaker to shut down follow the gunsmith. Would an X-shot roleblocker of some kind be more forgiving for town?In post 5, northsidegal wrote:i think the setup is at its weakest with the strongman and the 2-shot commuter, although it being the relative weakest (i.e. compared to the rest of the setup) doesn't mean that it's bad
I'm down to tweak it if you like! Anything to make it more fairIn post 5, northsidegal wrote:honestly i think that it's probably passable as is? of course, the evil NRG bureaucrat in me wants to tweak it around and not just pass it as is, but i honestly don't think it's really necessary. of course, if you'd like to talk it through a bit more and if you feel like you might want to change your mind on it i'm open to hearing different ideas, but ithinkthat it's passable as is. would like to hear mastina's opinion as well.
I'm mostly attached to the weak fn, the gunsmith/mafi doctor combo, and having a town protective.
I forget if the strongman/commuter interaction was intentional-- i was tired. i like the idea of commuter more than bulletproof since it's an active ability, and more than PGO cause that'd throw the swing out of control
Oh, also I have a question: If the Weak Friendly Neighbour is killed by visiting a mafia-aligned player, can the doctor save them, or is the death unpreventable?-
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
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sweet!In post 6, northsidegal wrote:realized that i didn't talk too much about the actual balance in that post except to say that it's passable as is. i do think that it's probably on the scumsided end of things given how much the mafia doctor nerfs the power of the gunsmith as well as the swing potential with the WFN – a good or even just halfway decent scumteam could sweep an unlucky town, so if it's unbalanced it's probably in that direction
another thing i just realized is that this setup has the rare honor of having a potential interaction between a strongman and a commuter (which the commuter wins). not really a problem, although i imagine that some newer players or people less familiar with normal rules might get confused / annoyed at that, if it does end up happening.
also a quick check over your role PMs and rules and they seemed fine
It seems like I could bump the strongman to something weaker (like a JK or alien, maybe 2-3 shot so they can prevent follow the gunsmith but cannot spam roleblocks without a known target) or I could buff the commuter (Not sure what to. I don't want a killer or an investigative, and I already have a protective)-
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
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Lol sweet tyIn post 10, mastina wrote:If the setup were to be tweaked, the tweaks would need to bevery very minor, minuscule ones, because the setup is beautiful, the setup is elegant, the setup is nice, is wonderful, and not atrociously balanced. But I am currently too tired to make any suggestions on any tweak of this nature, if it's even desired. (Soonest I'd be able to do this, if you want it, is Sunday.)
I would like to tweak it a bit to make it more balanced, because I don't want scum to win and have the players be like "ya but it was scumsided tho" and have that detract from the scumteam's victory.In post 10, mastina wrote:Because as I said above, it's passable in my opinion as-is. Slightly scumsided, scumsided enough toalmostbe outside the acceptable margin of balance, but to just be inside the region. So I'd mostly defer the judgement to the setup designer/mod, if they're okay with the running the setup knowing that it's slightly scumsided. If they are, if you are, then it's fine, but if you're not quite happy with it as it is, then yeah, needs some form of very minor tweak/adjustment.
Sunday or whenever you're free is cool!-
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
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without any further direction I think I'd have the Weak person not die, since I'm wording the doctors role PM as: "protect them from one kill attempt that night" so I would think that counts.
That being said!! I forgot rolestopper is a thing. I do not want the gunsmith to mistakenly suspect the town doctor, that would just be really annoying for them.
Town Weak Friendly Neighbour
Town Informed Gunsmith (“There is one Mafia Doctor”)
Town [Informed] Rolestopper ["There is one Mafia Strongman"] --information part only necessary if town is still underpowered with this setup
Town Two-shot Commuter
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Doctor
Mafia One-shot Strongman
Mafia Goon
I suppose the weak friendly neighbour can still get faked results though, just from their target being rolestopped instead of being healed. Maybe town isn't super better off but it's a start
I like your idea of informing the rolestopper of their counter, just like I did with the gunsmith. It's very symmetrical. Mafia have direct counters to the PRs, but the PRs aren't going to be blindsided by the fake inno and 1-time failure to protect. And mafia do not know they know of course
Do you think the setup is more balanced with or without the rolestopper knowing about the strongman's existence?
Spoiler: ROLE PMS-
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
- Team Mafia Winner
- Team Mafia Winner
- Posts: 10586
- Joined: September 5, 2016
- Pronoun: She
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
- Team Mafia Winner
- Team Mafia Winner
- Posts: 10586
- Joined: September 5, 2016
- Pronoun: She
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
- Team Mafia Winner
- Team Mafia Winner
- Posts: 10586
- Joined: September 5, 2016
- Pronoun: She
Here's the post from my mod PT. All the role PMs should be the same except rolestopper which is added in for doctor now
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
- Team Mafia Winner
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- Posts: 10586
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