Mystery Mafia 2- Game Over! But who won!?

[Patrick]

... Most of this is at least partially wrong in my opinion, but anyway, what's your point? Well, except trying to belittle me to get people to back you up even more?

Once vollkan brought it up, and you responded, I noticed it as a fairly vague reason by you to be suspicious of remus. Your response here doesn't do much for me either: your main reason for finding "certainty" to be a scumtell is that scum know everyone's alignments; but that doesn't apply in this game, so your attack on him was flawed. If something is "at least partially wrong" you can explain why.

Repeating a lot of? I won't reread my own posts for this, but I'm pretty sure I only said that two very consecutive times, stop making things up. But maybe you're overfocusing over this one worrying thing?

I like how you refuse to read your own posts to check it whilst simultaneously accuse me of making things up. Classy. Anyway, I count 3 times, with underlining in the latest case. My point is you've been repeating that without decent backing.

1. Experimental games have design flaws ;

Yeah yeah yeah. Pretty much anything is technically possible, however unlikely. The point is to make informed guesses, and I think you know that an SK existing in day 1 of this game is pretty unlikely.

2. It is always possible that one of the newcomers was another werewolf (actually, it would explain why you're still kicking). Just as it is also possible there wasn't any. I'm not even sure *you* know.

Fair enough answer, though I wouldn't be an SK in that case.

Because I wanted to see how much you would insist to defend not yourself, but an antitown role you did not claim to be.

I did not say *you* are a SK, I said the werewolf is (and as such, werewolf-hunting should be the priority over mafia-hunting). It is *you* who slapped that wolk skin over your back, assimilated you and it, and defended it, instead of hunting for it like I tried to.

There is absolutely no reason to defend the werewolf's position (about his lynch's attractivity) unless you do it unconsciously, because you are it.

Wow, you think you can get away with this one? You've accused me a number of times of being a werewolf; reading through the filter you did it in your posts 53, 55 (where you accuse me of trying to explain away "my" gory kills), post 56, post 57, 61, 63 (indirectly) and maybe others I've missed. In several other posts you've accused me of being an SK, so it's clear you're accusing me of being a werewolf-SK. No assumptions made by me there, no "slapping werewolf skin on my back". LOL, did you think I wasn't going to bother checking your posts to expose these lies?

Also, but it is secondary, you again avoid accusing me of being it. I am quite sure that not once have you said I might be the werewolf, while it would have been the most obvious defense against my accusations. Maybe are you still thinking you can pretend tomorrow that there never was a werewolf, perhaps at the cost of a no-nightkill play? I sure hope that they will not be fooled by it and hang you good tomorrow, if you do manage to get me lynched today.

I've said multiple times that I think you're scum (and we know that my definition of scum is any anti-town role). In my isolated post 20 I also said that the only way you can be town is if the vengeful vig was behind the gory attacks (if not, then it must be you). Even if I don't say "lord_hur is a werewolf" that hardly means I'm dismissing it. And working out exactly what flavour of scum you are at this point isn't terribly important; more important is that you die.

[Lawrencelot]

Because my first argument to vote Patrick is becoming weaker and weaker, I think I'll

Unvote

for now. When's the deadline again?

Mod

: could you edit deadline info into the first post?

[Patrick]

Question: if we lynch one of Patrick and lord_hur, and that person comes up town, should we lynch the other or look for scum in the players that joined today? (assuming nothing extraordinary happens) This has to be answered before we lynch one of them, because if the question is "don't lynch the other" then the second question is "why would we lynch one of them today?". Man I have no idea if I'm making any sense right now...

If I'm lynched today, lord_hur should definitely be lynched. I'm somewhat surprised to see you asking this question, because earlier you seemed to say that one of myself/lord_hur must definitely be scum.

[lord_hur]

Because I wanted to see how much you would insist to defend not yourself, but an antitown role you did not claim to be.

I did not say *you* are a SK, I said the werewolf is (and as such, werewolf-hunting should be the priority over mafia-hunting). It is *you* who slapped that wolk skin over your back, assimilated you and it, and defended it, instead of hunting for it like I tried to.

There is absolutely no reason to defend the werewolf's position (about his lynch's attractivity) unless you do it unconsciously, because you are it.

Wow, you think you can get away with this one? You've accused me a number of times of being a werewolf; reading through the filter you did it in your posts 53, 55 (where you accuse me of trying to explain away "my" gory kills), post 56, post 57, 61, 63 (indirectly) and maybe others I've missed. In several other posts you've accused me of being an SK, so it's clear you're accusing me of being a werewolf-SK. No assumptions made by me there, no "slapping werewolf skin on my back". LOL, did you think I wasn't going to bother checking your posts to expose these lies?

Thanks for missing the point completely. Of course I accused you of being the werewolf, since it is not me. But you did not simply dismiss the point about that SK thing thinking "I am not the werewolf, so I don't care" : you actually defended the werewolf role.

[lord_hur]

Question: if we lynch one of Patrick and lord_hur, and that person comes up town, should we lynch the other or look for scum in the players that joined today? (assuming nothing extraordinary happens) This has to be answered before we lynch one of them, because if the question is "don't lynch the other" then the second question is "why would we lynch one of them today?". Man I have no idea if I'm making any sense right now...

If I'm lynched today, lord_hur should definitely be lynched. I'm somewhat surprised to see you asking this question, because earlier you seemed to say that one of myself/lord_hur must definitely be scum.

How touching. Because you will end up town of course?

Here's my view of things, with all possibilities (if we lynch me, simply replace "me" with "Patrick")

1. Patrick is town : lynch me, I'm the werewolf
2. Patrick is mafia : lynch me, I'm the werewolf
3. Patrick is werewolf : that's the only case where it is not sure that I am scum. But it still is a possibility, I must admit. I could be town. I could be mafia. Hell, I could still be a werewolf distancing Patrick.

[lord_hur]

By the way, sorry for the multiple posts, but I'd like Patrick in particular to comment on this last post of mine. I do not want him to get away with my lynch (in case he gets me lynched, of course).

[farside22]

Farside’s attack on Hur is pretty flat…I get her point (Hur not scumhunting), but it’s not really positive evidence of scumminess.

It's been my experience that I see more and more scum hiding under the radar and not scum hunting. It typically is more accurate then not. Only very few people I play with don't scum hunt and it is a null tell.

[Patrick]

Thanks for missing the point completely. Of course I accused you of being the werewolf, since it is not me. But you did not simply dismiss the point about that SK thing thinking "I am not the werewolf, so I don't care" : you actually defended the werewolf role.

Is your argument against me based on my not being entirely sure the claw killer is scum? I brought up the vengeful vig possibility yes, and I've already noted that you brought it up before I did.

By the way, sorry for the multiple posts, but I'd like Patrick in particular to comment on this last post of mine. I do not want him to get away with my lynch (in case he gets me lynched, of course).

Well, it's cute how you're trying your hardest to get me lynched tomorrow even after you come up scum today. I've already said that if you're town I'll be lynched tomorrow if not nightkilled tonight.

[lord_hur]

This is not what I asked. But why am I not surprised.

Here it is in a way you cannot feign to misunderstand :

Do you agree that one of us is necessarily a werewolf, ie an anti-town claw killer?

[Patrick]

Do you agree that one of us is necessarily a werewolf, ie an anti-town claw killer?

Not necessarily. I've made that obvious in my posts have I not?

By the way, that line of questioning makes it obvious you're scum. If you were protown, you wouldn't need any assurance beyond "If I'm lynched today as town Patrick is lynched tomorrow". The fact that you're trying to cover scenarios where you're lynched and turn up scum makes it clear you're scum.

[lord_hur]

Not necessarily.

This is what I wanted to hear, thank you.

If this cannot convince them, nothing can. I am not even going to insult people's intelligence to explain why it is obvious there is one.

I am done with this day.

[farside22]

Do you agree that one of us is necessarily a werewolf, ie an anti-town claw killer?

Not necessarily. I've made that obvious in my posts have I not?

By the way, that line of questioning makes it obvious you're scum. If you were protown, you wouldn't need any assurance beyond "If I'm lynched today as town Patrick is lynched tomorrow". The fact that you're trying to cover scenarios where you're lynched and turn up scum makes it clear you're scum.

Umm reading the death scene's it should be obvious with anyone with half a brain that there is some wolf type in the game. Looking at everyone that has died since the first attack no role has come up that would fit that death scene.

FOS: Patrick

Why do you still believe there is no wolf?

[Patrick]

Umm reading the death scene's it should be obvious with anyone with half a brain that there is some wolf type in the game.

Insult not appreciated.

Why do you still believe there is no wolf?

How did you translate not being 100% certain into "there is no wolf"? I think lord_hur is a wolf, and the fact that he slipped in the possibility that me and him could be two werewolves distancing only makes me happier with that. I've had jolts of doubt about that, despite your implication that that leaves me with less than half a brain and despite the fact it's been obvious lord_hur would try to use them against me.

Now though, like I've said, lord_hur's last few posts are all argued from a scum perspective.

[elvis_knits]

Now though, like I've said, lord_hur's last few posts are all argued from a scum perspective.

I don't see that. What about his posting makes you certain he is posting from "a scum perspective"?

This seems like unsubstantiated slander.

[Patrick]

I did say it in the post before that, so even if you disagree with it, it can hardly be "unsubstantiated slander". Reposted:

By the way, that line of questioning makes it obvious you're scum. If you were protown, you wouldn't need any assurance beyond "If I'm lynched today as town Patrick is lynched tomorrow". The fact that you're trying to cover scenarios where you're lynched and turn up scum makes it clear you're scum.

[Lawrencelot]

Patrick, if one of you isn't a "werewolf", what would be the other option? No scum at the start of Dx (forgot which day)?

[Patrick]

The other option would be (obviously from my perspective) that lord_hur is another flavour of scum. That would require the vengeful vigilante role to be performing the gory kills, but the flavour just seems too brutal for that.

[lord_hur]

I did say it in the post before that, so even if you disagree with it, it can hardly be "unsubstantiated slander". Reposted:

By the way, that line of questioning makes it obvious you're scum. If you were protown, you wouldn't need any assurance beyond "If I'm lynched today as town Patrick is lynched tomorrow". The fact that you're trying to cover scenarios where you're lynched and turn up scum makes it clear you're scum.

Just a comment about this : it was obvious Patrick tailored his first, incomplete answer in such a way that I could not push further without allowing him to accuse me of being scum.

I saw it, but went in anyway, because even if that gave him an opportunity to counterattack, I would have at last his final answer.

Again, I don't care about my personal safety, I just want him dead.

[elvis_knits]

I did say it in the post before that, so even if you disagree with it, it can hardly be "unsubstantiated slander". Reposted:

By the way, that line of questioning makes it obvious you're scum. If you were protown, you wouldn't need any assurance beyond "If I'm lynched today as town Patrick is lynched tomorrow". The fact that you're trying to cover scenarios where you're lynched and turn up scum makes it clear you're scum.

I really don't see how the fact that he includes scenarios in which he is scum means he is scum.

Many a pro-town player will include that kind of scenario because they know from other POV's people can't be sure they are not scum. He's the only person who really knows, so he puts every situation out there to be unbiased.

[Litral]

Internet down for almost a week :/

I read back, not much happening since I last posted. People clarifying ideas, fosing and being fosed in response, etc.

Meh, if you guys aren't counting, that's fine as well, it's not as if I lose immediately, but you'll regret it. *sulks*

[lord_hur]

Internet down for almost a week :/

I read back, not much happening since I last posted. People clarifying ideas, fosing and being fosed in response, etc.

Meh, if you guys aren't counting, that's fine as well, it's not as if I lose immediately, but you'll regret it. *sulks*

Excuse me, but you have done nothing to make us (well me at least) believe that you are trustworthy. We've just been bombed by someone pretending to help town, remember.

Plus, qualifying all our play since you've left as meaningless isn't helping.

And finally (but it only concerns me, I guess) your vote on me, which is seriously unbacked up (Patrick's "critical analysis"? that he is a skilled player doesn't mean he's town ; also, my only scum win was mainly due to me apparently doing most of the hunting and analysis).

[farside22]

I really want everyone to confirm they have read the death scene's because if you haven't then you should. There is obviously a wolf character around and it is either Patrick or Lord Hur.
I think it Lord Hur because of the lack of scum hunting and constant under the radar antic's. However Lord Hur is right about the fact that Patrick keeps seeming trying to almost deny that such a creature exist.

[Litral]

We've just been bombed by someone pretending to help town, remember.

Eh, true, true. Doesn't matter much anyway...

Plus, qualifying all our play since you've left as meaningless isn't helping.

Not really... just that nothing is interesting enough for scumhunting material.

And finally (but it only concerns me, I guess) your vote on me, which is seriously unbacked up (Patrick's "critical analysis"? that he is a skilled player doesn't mean he's town ; also, my only scum win was mainly due to me apparently doing most of the hunting and analysis).

I've liked his analysis so far and it makes me think he is town. I could go into it if you want.

[lord_hur]

No, I actually no longer care. If you didn't get what's going on yet, then your loss (I mean, not necessarily you, but all of the townies). I am sure it would be completely obvious to me were I in your place.

I am done here.

[Litral]

You said that a while ago.