Mini 666 - This Could Be Mafia - MOD ABANDONED

[TonyMontana]

Positive vote: Voodo

because his namesake is evil.

Negative vote: TonyMontana

-.-

[TonyMontana]

Also, what do you guys mean by alt?

Alternative account. Smurf.

[TonyMontana]

positive unvote, vote:Timeater

Leaving a mini on page 2? ¬¬

[TonyMontana]

Also, what do you guys mean by alt?

Alternative account. Smurf.

Says the guy with a Pooky bear in his account.

What are you insinuating?

[TonyMontana]

That the inclusion of an icon associated with PookyTheMagicalBear in your avatar could indicate that you are, in fact, his alt. Just as the several allusions in my own profile indicate whose I am.

Nah, that's from way back, in 2005. It's a play on another user's icon (the homer aiming at pooky) Since you're so attentive to icons, you might know who that third guy is, i can't for the life of me remember.

[TonyMontana]

For good measure, TonyMontana deserves some suspicion for being the 5th vote for Timeater, with an equally crappy reason.

4th, thankyouverymuch

Negative unvote, vote: Timeater

[TonyMontana]

Also, why are you unvoting and revoting Timeater in the same post?

I dunno if you've heard, but this mafia has a different voting system. ¬¬

I think this Grimmy thing balled up quick, without much basis.

[TonyMontana]

This doesnt make sense becuase a)if there's buddying then both have to be scum not just one and b)it was so fucking early to tell who is scum and who isnt with that degree of certainty.......

a) scum buddy up to townsfolk.

If we are lynching people primarily for information, I find your lynch very educational, Tajo.

unvote both
positive vote:populartajo

[TonyMontana]

Unvote

No comment on the question I asked of you several times.

Sorry, must have missed it?

[TonyMontana]

Meanwhile, TonyMontana is looking odd. Votes tajo for trying to buddy up with someone, then he abruptly unvotes. I think he's got some splainin to do.

The buddy comment was not related to the vote. And I unvoted because I believe Tajo's claim.

[TonyMontana]

Do you mean you intended to unvote your negative vote for yourself, and then negative vote Timeater, while also leaving your positive vote on Timeater? If so, why?

Woops, yeah i do remember that question
Well, basically, I nulled out so it was just a quirky way to unvote.

[TonyMontana]

Why did you vote for populartajo then?

Why do you believe the claim?

Bandwaggoning.

Well, I guess the fact that a line from his claim was identical (As in word for word) to my own town role was what I took notice of first. It's somewhat of a common phrase for pro-town role PMs, and I'm unsure of if you could assume it's being used, judging from what you get as a scum.

[TonyMontana]

Yeah, I kinda thought that, but i did a quick survey of like 5 mini games, and only found 1 instance of it being used.

So it may be regularly used, but it's not a safe bet.

[TonyMontana]

You know, this just might be a brilliant play... -.-

Negative vote: Myself
Positive vote Muerrto

[TonyMontana]

On the other hand, if tajo is scum he could just inverse whatever his win condition is to make it look like he's town. Still, it seems like a bit too risky to do if he's lying.

Well, that was what i was wondering about earlier. (if a scum could predict the town win condition from the scum condition) And I did alittle research.
First of all, it was ridiculously hard to find games in this forum with that win condition. Secondly, in the few games I found, there was no consistancy in scum vs town win condition.

So I have little doubt about tajo's claim, and I don't think anyone else with the win condition should have either.

Of course any claim to have the same win condition after I pointed it out is about as valid as saying "I am town".
Muerrto would have us believe that him questioning me of the win condition was the line I meant, is indication that he also has the condition. Which of course is at best indication of nothing. In fact, the way he asked it kinda indicated he wasn't aware of the full extent of right sentence (you with the condition know what I'm talking about) I dunno, my gut is just telling me that the way he responded to it doesn't quite sit right.

[TonyMontana]

Well, the movie obviously makes sense.. For the role. The song does not make sense... at all.

[TonyMontana]

Time soft-claimed?
Ok, you lost me...

[TonyMontana]

The hell is a tennis ball runner?

And his sentence would only make grammatical sense if he meant "professional".
And logically sense if he meant "player"

[TonyMontana]

Well either way, I see much more of a connection between Tajo's flavour and mine.

[TonyMontana]

I'm saying, in response that you say that "Disturbia" seems weird in light of Time's softclaim, that "Disturbia" makes more sense compared to my own.

[TonyMontana]

EBWOP: "in response to"

[TonyMontana]

Note: The win condition may not be the same for all playerfs.

Didn't notice this until Batt mentioned it. (In my defense, the post counts are not easy on he eyes :p)

Well, that certainly changes things alittle. Not for Tajo's claim, but certainly that anyone else would be jduged/redeemed by their response to it...

[TonyMontana]

This could get complicated...

[TonyMontana]

Yeah, we're gonna lynch a powerrole, on the case that he was reaaaaaaaally lucky. ¬¬

Positive vote: Muerrto

[TonyMontana]

You admitted to having been extremely lucky to guess the protown win condition in your claim. If you really were protown, you wouldn't have had to guess. Therefore, you're scum.

[face_palm]

[TonyMontana]

I didn't have any information in mind. It was just a counter-punch to Tajo saying he wanted info from an ergo lynch.

[TonyMontana]

This is a ridiculous post. It's a blatant misrepresentation of Muerrto's case against populartajo (which is at least a lot better than populartajo's case against Muerrto).

The comment was mostly directed at you. Which was before i realized you were making the

ridiculous

assumption that Tajo actually stated to have been guessing the win condition.

If populartajo turns out to be scum, and I expect he will, TonyMontana will be next in line.

If tajo doesn't, you will.

Look, the only viable buddy scenario here is that I am scum (with uncharacteristically good skills).
That Tajo guessed the win condition is highly unlikely to start with, but that I made a play to point out the validity of the condition, without being able to know if it's right is downright preposterous.

[TonyMontana]

Shadow, I have already admitted to have been bandwagoning Tajo. Try to keep up.

[TonyMontana]

I didn't have any information in mind. It was just a counter-punch to Tajo saying he wanted info from an ergo lynch.

They why would you use that sentence?

I didn't have any information in mind.

It was just a counter-punch to Tajo saying he wanted info from an ergo lynch.

[TonyMontana]

In the meanwhile, can anyone tell me why this guy can't simply believe I am a watcher and that I was extremely lucky to guess his win condition?

The only conclusion I can draw from this line is that populartajo admits to having guessed the protown win condition. That means he’s scum.

What other interpretation can you give to this comment?

Uh, the obvious one. That he is dissing muerrto for assuming that Tajo was just lucky in guessing. I understand that grammatically he is saying what you say. But logically you have to be pretty daft to not understand what he was trying to say.

[TonyMontana]

Look, the only viable buddy scenario here is that I am scum (with uncharacteristically good skills).
That Tajo guessed the win condition is highly unlikely to start with, but that I made a play to point out the validity of the condition, without being able to know if it's right is downright preposterous.

If you were scum and he were town, then he would have no reason to lie about it. And thus, I wouldn't say it's quite so preposterous to make a move that would make you look cleared.

Read again.

[TonyMontana]

Look, the only viable buddy scenario here is that I am scum (with uncharacteristically good skills).
That Tajo guessed the win condition is highly unlikely to start with, but that I made a play to point out the validity of the condition, without being able to know if it's right is downright preposterous.

If you were scum and he were town, then he would have no reason to lie about it. And thus, I wouldn't say it's quite so preposterous to make a move that would make you look cleared.

Read again.

Why are we assuming he guessed it? If he's town he would know it.

I am not assuming he guessed it. People who doesn't believe him are assuming it.
My "preposterous" scenario was if both me and Tajo was scum.

[TonyMontana]

Or.... this is just a big stretch.

[TonyMontana]

I think we ought to leave the win conditions alone. I don't see anything good coming out of trying map out the differences in win conditions.

[TonyMontana]

I disagree. Win conditions, their wording, and their variation have become a major issue, so I feel that it would be in the town's best interests to get as much information about them out there as is available. How could it hurt?

It might help scum in the search of powerroles?

@Tony-Montana: You don't take somebody's wording for no reason. If you call his lynch full of information, you're calling his lynch full of information. I really don't buy the way you're trying to back out of this, and to put it another way, consider the following conversation.
Person A: You're dumb.
Person B: No, you're dumb.
Person C: Hey, Person B, did you just call Person A dumb?
Person B: No, I called him ugly.

(Try to guess which person you are)

*hoping for Person C*

[TonyMontana]

I think most people are aware, grimmy.

[TonyMontana]

I don't know. I'm just saying, the less we know the better.

[TonyMontana]

Look, Shadowgirl, what do you expect to learn from a reveal of who has the same win condition?

[TonyMontana]

Another suspect: Tony Montana.
you seem to be defending Tajo a little TOO much.
-if he flips town, you feel it will clear you as you attached yourself to him with your defense of him.
-If he flips scum, and you are his scum buddy, people will think that you made the mistake of buddying to scum and got fooled. This provides cover for you (I beleive someone put together a "if tajo is scum, then tony is town" arguement earlier)

So basically, you are using wifom to turn both of tajo's hypothetical flips into scumtells for me?

[TonyMontana]

Is that anything similar to you using WIFOM to saying because tajo said he's town(by 'quoting' his PM) that he's town and since I disagree I'm scum?

No. Not similar at all.

[TonyMontana]

for defending Tajo for the same wrong reasons. You said it was weird and rare for scum to get the townie win condition, yet Tony and Tajo placed that as a viable option. That's ridiculous.

I have never said that was a viable option. I have never heard of this occurring before, and I think it's even more rare than the win condition is.

[TonyMontana]

negative unvote, vote: jimmybot

[TonyMontana]

Does this mean a negative majority is also a lynch?
Who wanna volunteer to be human test dummy?

[TonyMontana]

I read it as "lynch attempt failed" but I see now that it makes more sense that we turned it unlynchable.

[TonyMontana]

You have no problem with the massive buddying Tony's been giving you all game.

Massive!

[TonyMontana]

Keep reading.

[TonyMontana]

Negative vote: Tajo

In case someone missed it, deadline is in 11 days.

[TonyMontana]

Why, because I'm using my votes to advocate the lynch I think is better?

[TonyMontana]

The negative vote to further protect your "buddy" pushes this further towards the pairing arguement. I am willing go to for either a tajo lynch or a TonyM lynch today, and the FOS will likely remain upon the other tomorrow.

Well I certainly think it's regrettable if me being adamant about believing Tajo's claim should somehow cast suspicion on him.
I just don't see the rationality behind the argument that we're both scum because we're "buddying" up. Could you explain this rationale?

[TonyMontana]

Because i can. What's the point of having negative vote powers, if you're not gonna use em to promote your intentions? -.-

[TonyMontana]

So you feel strongly about tajo not being scum?

Strongly enough to keep him from being lynched.

[TonyMontana]

No, I mean his vehemence and insults instead of simply saying 'that was a retarded reason to vote me' or 'how does my asking for your prod make me scum'? Also, town would've most likely said 'oops didn't see you just posted' instead of trying to pursue the crappy case on me.

Being abrasive or tact-less is not a scumtell.

[TonyMontana]

V/LA, going hiking in the mountains...

[TonyMontana]

I do find it interesting that Tony just seems to disappear for a bit when he and sometimes Tajo aren't being put on the chopping block.

I do find this accusation to be without merit.

[TonyMontana]

Regarding the quote rule, I was kinda weary of that at first too. It's up to the discretion of the Mod to decide what counts as violation of that rule, and I think after the whole debacle about the win condition, skitzer's chose to point out that not all win conditions are the same, and leave it at that.

Tajo didn't actually quote it, but it's a fine line. Modkills shouldn't come easy, tho, and the whole incident has stirred up alot of discussion...

[TonyMontana]

Just checked
Ergo and Falcone are both missing since the 15th. (Curious,huh?) Probably need replacing.
fuzzylightning is posting in his other game.

Mod: prod him please.

I think that's why skitzer put them in the replacement box....

[TonyMontana]

mod: can we get a exact time on the deadline?

It will be approximately 4:00 PM U.S. Central Time, and I'm really unsure but I think that is 9:00PM GMT.

town: can we get a move on with the muerrto lynch?

[TonyMontana]

Muerrto - 1
Battosai - 3
Grimmy - 4
Falcone - 5
Shadowgirl - 7
Tajo - 10
Tony - one... BILLion.. dollars..

[TonyMontana]

I'd like to revise my listand make a total.
You know, this could be interesting to analyze, once people start flipping.

Muerrto - 1
Batto - 2
Grimmy - 3
Falcone - 4
Shadowgirl - 5
PEG - 6
Fuzzy - 6
Ergo - 6
Vivian - 6
Competent - 6
Tajo - 9

[TonyMontana]

What have I done in the past post that would make you put me from a 3 to a 2?

Oh, nothing, I just wanted to spread out the points alittle to make an order. It's really a wash between everyone under 5.

[TonyMontana]

Also, Tony, how have I gone from a 7 to 5? Or is this just based on the new system that 5 is an 'on the fence' vote?

Yeah, I did put you on the fence intentionally.

Please just disregard my first points post.

[TonyMontana]

Tony: Why do you find me scummy? I was a 3 and on the new scale a 2, so why?

Gutfeeling.

[TonyMontana]

I prefer a Tony lynch today, but tommorow depending on the results I might be willing to lynch tajo.

There's just zero rationality in this.
Explain how your view on tajo would change depending on my flip?

[TonyMontana]

Wouldn't you assume since this is 'This could be mafia' that all win conditions are going to say 'could'? If you were scum, couldn't you just SWITCH the town/scum words and quote the win condition?

I don't think anyone is concerned about the word "could", i think everyone knows that is in all the PMs.
And the idea that you could switch the words is ridiculous. But what do you know, right? You have no idea what the scum win condition would be, right?

I could care less about a watcher. You have to target the actual mafia doing the kill(or a mafia with a power) to even be of use. I think your claim was early, unneccessary, and BS. I think you're scum and Tony's either stupid or your partner. I can't believe neither of you ever thought that mafia would ge getting the same 'could' win condition.

First of all, fail. A watcher sees who targets a person, you're thinking of a tracker.
Secondly, again you repeat the ridiculous notion that the word "could" is relevant.

You have already claimed that your win condition is the same, remember.

[TonyMontana]

I'm not defending him, I'm attacking you.

A watcher gets information on everyone who targets its target.

Is this what your case has come to, "who needs a watcher, anyway" ?

[TonyMontana]

You're losing your bearings.

3 days left to lynch muerrto, people.

[TonyMontana]

Where is everybody, and why haven't we lynched muerrto yet?

[TonyMontana]

I feel that the scum could have been given a sample town role pm in their role pm.

I don't like Tajo and I'm fine lynching him but I REALLY don't like this. Has anyone EVER played in a game where you got OTHER people's PM's in yours?

I haven't...

In my ~20 game history, no.

[TonyMontana]

While I havent seen a safe claim win condition in any games ive played, it does seem that almost all games ive played had very similar win conditions where all that was different was the words "town" , "faction"., etc.

Maybe but not for the "you win when all threats to the town has been eliminated". I haven't even seen a standard opposition condition where it's used, and I have been looking.

which is why I havent given much weight to the win condition arguement.

Also, the mod has added that win conditions may be different. This weighs against the win condition argeument IMHO.

What argument would that be?

[TonyMontana]

which is why I havent given much weight to the win condition arguement.

Also, the mod has added that win conditions may be different. This weighs against the win condition argeument IMHO.

What argument would that be?

the "i have this win condition so I am confirmed town arguement.

Well, first of all, the notion that scum could guess the win condition from their own is not feasible at all.
Secondly, that there might be different win conditions is irrelevant, cause quite a few people have claimed to have the condition in question.

[TonyMontana]

Tell me how it is.

[TonyMontana]

I have seen games where the two win conditions were virtually identical except for a word or two. its very feasible.

Does not apply to this condition.

it is also very easy for scum to jump on the wagon and say "me too" when it comes to a win condition arguement.

And I don't see anyone arguing for anyone being confirmed on account of jumping on the wagon.
I'm not even claiming that my reaction confirms me.

[TonyMontana]

The Watcher role is one of the easiest to fake.

lets say there are 3 scum. You could post the next day that you watched scum number 2 and he did nothing. meanwhile, scum #2 was sent out to make the kill. This not only "proves" you are a watcher, but also helps to clear scum #2 as town because he did not move when the kill was made
...
according to you.

make sense now?

Fail.

Why does it seem like nobody knows what a watcher is?

[TonyMontana]

I merely set up the pins for you to knock down.

[TonyMontana]

Tajo, if you don't use your negative vote, you are in essence self-voting -.-

[TonyMontana]

Me and CP are scum.

We had powerroles of tracker and watcher.

I watched tajo, he tracked tony. He killed tony.

I thought Muerrto was a vig and was debating what to do with that information before he was killed.

Somehow I had made myself believe i was a tracker during day 1. So of course I tracked you. [face_palm] So I tried to protect my top suspect. It's good to know I would have died anyway :p

[TonyMontana]

Oh, I thought he said *you* killed me. Damnit. =/

[TonyMontana]

Glad to have gone to the grave together with you, Tajo-buddy

[TonyMontana]

Suffice to say SK =/= scum.

Well obviously there's disagreement. I use scum for all anti-town roles.