Mini 666 - This Could Be Mafia - MOD ABANDONED

[Muerrto]

I know what a softclaim is newbiegirl, lol.

Did you just name claim AND start personal insults on page 2 and call HER a newbie?

Positive vote: Time

No point in negative voting anyone at the moment.

[Muerrto]

Gonna ask to be replaced, not really vibing with this game and I have several other open games I'd like to concentrate on. Sorry!

You started the insults and the attacks and when someone swings back you run? *shakes head sadly*

Whatever. Have fun elsewhere then.

[Muerrto]

Shrug there's a difference in saying 'asking for a replacement is a scum tell' and saying 'I need a replacement' out of the blue while actively participating in other games.

I personally didn't like how he ran because he got his same stuff tossed in his face, has nothing to do with being scum. He threw insults and crap and when someone threw it back he left. Eh, whatever.

I'll keep my vote there and see what the replacement brings.

[Muerrto]

Again with the poor reasoning on a vote. You're voting him for a personal reason that has nothing to do with him being scum? Since when was it OK to lynch somebody because you didn't like them?

His playstyle didn't seem town to freak like that when under fire and turn tail and run. If he is town he needs to grow his skin thicker. If he's scum he needs to learn how to throw off suspiscion without panicking. Rest assured if he becomes in danger I'll unvote. Still waiting for his replacement.

[Muerrto]

Weekend. Will post after. Peace.

[Muerrto]

You're not going to seriously suggest that Timeater's replacement request and subsequent lack of replacementesque behavior alone are reason for a cold lynch without even giving Erg0 a chance to read the damn game. Also, the fact that his wagon was polarizing is not a legitimate reason to lynch. Yes, we could protentially pick up valuable information, but it would only be on three or four pages of play.

Waiting for Grimmy's response once he gets back. I'd still like him to justify his vote in a sane way.

Um...Ergo replaced on page 4. You don't think he read 4 pages by the time he posted? His post sounded like he read the game. Am I for quicklynching Ergo? No. Is your reasoning weak? Yes.

Why so protective? Time's behavior actually reflects just what Popular said. He asked for a replacement, then kept posting, then was SURPRISED when he got replaced. As if he was fine continuing to play now that the attention had been drawn off. Can you explain his behavior otherwise?

If he'd actually been too busy to post, why did he all of sudden start posting after asking for a replacement?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, when looking back at Time's last post, it doesn't sound like he was surprised to be replaced, but rather surprised that he wasn't yet.

Really?

I'm making time because I care. And

I dont believe I ever said I dont have time for the game, I believe I said I'm not able to devote myself to this game and give it the attention it deserves

because I'm busy with other games. Your constant hounding is pretty suspicious tbh.

Please dont make me have to defend myself again

.

Skitzer

wtf ninja

*pokes with stick*

Okay, thanks. <3 Have fun.

Bolding mine of course. This sure sounds like he'd planned on posting another time to defend himself but that he was using the 'replacement' thing to avoid doing it. Then he was surprised he got replaced before he could do it.

How do you interperet this?

[Muerrto]

He asked to be replaced in 39. (Think about it, even if he wasn't miserable in this game; if he had to choose one game to replace out of, why not the one where everybody's suddenly started giving him crap?)

Because if that IS the case he needs to work on that. And according to his posts I gotta agree with Popular, Time seemed to be quite taken with the game.

[Muerrto]

Lol you can negative vote yourself?

I've still never seen Ergo as scum =p So I'm not sure what that would look like. Seems to be playing his town 1-liner style atm tho.

I agreed with Popular because he was right why do both Popular and Shadowgirl have a problem with that? I never buddied up or anything, I simply agreed.

And I'm the one who originally stated I thought Time was skipping out as scum, wouldn't that make Popular being the one agreeing with me, yes?

[Muerrto]

If you thought time was scum, wouldn't you think Ergo be scum?

Nope. Time and Ergo are different people and town can act scummy when they don't know what they're doing. That said, I never said Ergo was town, I said I've never seen him as scum(even on the other site, strange that, have you ever actually BEEN scum?) so I'm not sure if his playstyle changes and he seems to be playing like normal atm.

[Muerrto]

I agreed with Popular because he was right why do both Popular and Shadowgirl have a problem with that? I never buddied up or anything, I simply agreed.

Muerrto, I don't think that was me...?

Vivian, my bad.

[Muerrto]

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,

Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular

You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.

And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time? Nice. No wonder you had a problem with me agreeing with you about Ergo.

[Muerrto]

Ummm...Popular, would you like to explain the prod request on me when I had posted less than 24 hours earlier? Or did you want to continue cursing in caps...

[Muerrto]

Ummm...Popular, would you like to explain the prod request on me when I had posted less than 24 hours earlier? Or did you want to continue cursing in caps...

Why does that make me scum, Muerrto?

Because you're grasping at straws for a reason to throw suspiscion?

Because you're trying to start a lurker hunt on people who aren't lurking?

Pretty good scum tells.

[Muerrto]

I don't care whether you're town or scum but if you fucking curse at one more fucking person I'm gonna bitch slap you. Capice?

Let's keep it civil.

Watcher isn't powerful enough to worry about lynching you and your extremely agressive(you guys are fucking idiots, these are shit reasons, can you guys unvote me now?) reactions make my vote stand and gladly.

If you can calm down and defend yourself civilly(is that a word?) that may change. For now, your claim was too quick and your reactions far too agressive. Desperate scum trying to derail a wagon. Town would've expected a power role to claim to derail the wagon by itself.

[Muerrto]

Have you noticed you've stopped scumhunting completely recently Tajo?

You're also still pointing OMGUS fingers.

Care to try again?

[Muerrto]

Well, I guess the fact that a line from his claim was identical (As in word for word) to my own town role was what I took notice of first. It's somewhat of a common phrase for pro-town role PMs, and I'm unsure of if you could assume it's being used, judging from what you get as a scum.

All threats to the town eliminated? That's kind of standard in most mafia games.

[Muerrto]

It only proves that Muerrto has another win condition

Wait this is too fun. Everyone back off a sec and let him explain how what I said above proves I don't have it...even though I knew the line he was referencing above I obv don't have it on my PM.

Go ahead.

[Muerrto]

I could win when all threats to the town are eliminated

It's 'this could be mafia'.

Duh.

Would you like to try and post some content? You haven't for about 3 pages now ever since you've come under fire.

[Muerrto]

I just got 4 votes because Tajo claimed to have a specific PM?

I claimed the same thing and knew which line he was referencing so I was merely guessing because that's not my win condition?

Can you guys re-read the last 4 pages and pay attention a bit more?

This is insane.

[Muerrto]

Mod: I'm definitely not voting myself, can you fix that? Thanks.

[Muerrto]

I posted friday. Then it was the weekend. Now it's monday night football.

STOP accusing people of lurking when you don't have a FARKIN clue what lurking is.

That is my ULTIMATE pet peeve in these games.

[Muerrto]

When did I say you were lurking?

I sincerely didn't accuse him of lurking. He just posted a "Mod, Im not voting for myself" with no additional input even though he has been posting relatively considerable in their other games.
Besides supporting my case against Time and then suddenly supporting the wagon against me for the weakest reasons (I never linked him with Ergo), he hasnt done anything notable for scumhunting.
Why do you love him so much, huh?

Ok. Not that I haven't said this enough, but you are an ass, period. An annoying, condescending, ass.

This is what scumhunting looks like. This is a case.

Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.

This was on Sunday Sep 21st at 11 am EST

This was my reply:

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,

You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.

And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time? Nice. No wonder you had a problem with me agreeing with you about Ergo.

I had just posted less than 24 hours earlier but you made it sound like I'd been gone a week and even called for a prod??

Muerrto

Pretty much scum.Has gone to agree with me all the game (supporting a decent wagon) to positive vote me. WTF!! I mildly suspected him before because that is usually a scum technique. Agree with a townie in a decent case, push it and then when things go wrong, blame me for it. Also I never lnked you with Ergo. And I still ahve the feeling you're active lurking. Overdefensive much?
How can I go to decent reasoner to obvious scum?!

I voted Time on Sep 7th at 7:31 pm EST. Not random. He soft claimed on page TWO.

Tajo, you voted Time on Sep 7th at 1:32 pm EST. You mentioned him again at 5:31 pm EST the same day and then didn't mention him again until he asked for a replacement. You didn't seem to be too concerned about your vote and immediately removed it when he asked to leave.

I'd hardly call that agreeing with you all game.

I agreed with you on Time. I still think I voiced a stronger suspiscion of him first. So since I agree with you on 1 person I have to continue to agree with you all game? I think not. Your constant requests for content and posting while showing an extreme lack of your own(constantly posting questions for others with no real content and most times not even a reaction or reply to their answers for one) and your constant attempts to turn the game into a lurker hunt have made my vote quite content on you(assuming the mod fixed that problem with me voting myself).

Right now, Im calling Muerrto-Falcone-FuzzyLightning or Ergo scumgroup. Hope Im right.

Second link of me and Ergo.

Wow, just wow.
Take that, scumbags and lambs.
I still havent seen any reasoning about me being possible town and scum just going against the easy target. (Muerrto, TonyMontana,not sure about Falcone)
And I have seen some shit arguments. Really.
Peace.

This is your defense to the votes against you...

And this:

TonyMontana's post is utter bullshit and I feel good at least some people realize that.
Notice how Ergo and Muerrto dont give a shit about that post.
And I still dont see enough Muerrto hate. He jumped against me for the dumbest reasons ever.
I REALLY WANT to answer the motherfucking questions but I still dont know who they are. I thought post 198 (summary of a PBP analysis after my infamous post that got deleted) would be enough. I dont know what you want.

Appealing to emotion, cursing, telling us we're all stupid for voting you, etc.

You dont get it, do you?

This was directed at Fuzzy who you never replied to with an answer.

Why the claim?
1) I dont want to be lynched for shit reasons.
And Fuzzy, why do you think Ergo and Muerrto (post 211 and 212, respectively) didnt comment anything about Tony's 213, the worst post Ive seen in mafiascum in a while?

Don't get to play alot of games, do you?

Nice of you to ask him a question without answering his...but then you've done that all game.

It goes on:

LOL, Tony's 210.
And people can you unvote me?

Excellent argument. Well structured, solid base, well voiced thoughts and points. Just all round...yeah.

Next:

How am I trying to divide the town?

Um...

Who believes my claim and who doesnt?

Like that?

Poeple if you're town you got to stop acting scummy and pay attention to the game.

Because suspecting you obviously isn't paying attention to the game, right? How's that logic work again?

Why isnt people suspecting TonyMontana? Or Muerrto?
What would you gain of my lynch if you're so concentrated in me? What would you do when I come up town?

What would we win if you came up scum? What would you win if Tony or myself came up town? You do know how insanely WIFOM all your arguments are, right?

You're also still pointing OMGUS fingers.

Except that Im not doing that. If I were OMGUSing, all players here would be scum.

Except not all players are voting you. Very poor argument and yet didn't address the fact that your suspiscions were all OMGUS.

And Im defending myself and Im scumhunting. Hard things to do when all my decent atacks are considered OMGUS because probably all the town is against me?

Um..again, you didn't even have half the town on you. Nice appeal to emotion though.

Muerrto, what about if you just claim scum? Whats your win condition?

Because saying I should claim scum makes me scum, right? Because this is what you call scumhunting, right?

I challenge EVERYONE to sort the thread by Tajo's posts and see how much 'scumhunting' he's done and what exactly his 'case' on me is.

It just keeps going:

I have a case against Muerrto. (read my previous posts for reference) I dont think he's scum just for that win condition debate. Some people apparently do but you fail to realize that.
And I feel like Im repeating myself.

Um..I just sorted the whole thread by your posts and quoted almost all of them. Unless you can RE-STATE your case on me using ONLY quotes you're full of it and since I already read back through all of them, I already know you are.

Dont you KNOW to analyse people's reactions?

Because anyone who disagrees with you and doesn't automatically take your claim as golden doesn't know how to play?

That's your version of scumhunting??

Muerrto agreed with me all the game. Then he suddenly turned against me for reasons I still dont understand. When did I link him with Ergo? (BTW, where's this guy?)

Already said where you linked us twice. And already debunked the 'agreed with me all game' crap. This is your case?

When did I say you were lurking?

Several times as I've now quoted.

I sincerely didn't accuse him of lurking. He just posted a "Mod, Im not voting for myself" with no additional input even though he has been posting relatively considerable in their other games.
Besides supporting my case against Time and then suddenly supporting the wagon against me for the weakest reasons (I never linked him with Ergo), he hasnt done anything notable for scumhunting.

Already debunked both of these. As far as scumhunting, I'm quite fine with my vote on you, where it's been most of the game.

Altho apparently I'm currently not voting anyone since the mod took off my self vote so

Postive Vote: Tajo

to put it back where it was supposed to be.

[Muerrto]

@Shadow: I have no idea what his win condition is, I stated mine and what I assumed he was saying his is.

If he's saying his is different I'm quite skeptical of that.

@Tajo: You just decided to read enough to see I posted, not read the whole thing, say it was all random accusations, and then still vote me before even reading it???


Did anyone ELSE actually read my post and would like to refute/discuss any of my points?

Also, did anyone just read his last post? Basically I'm scum because I'm targetting him, that's the definition of OMGUS.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, we're gonna lynch a powerrole, on the case that he was reaaaaaaaally lucky. ¬¬

Positive vote: Muerrto

Um...even if you believe he's a power role, how would that make me scum?

FoS: Tony

Tajo also said at one point 'Tony isn't scum BTW'. You realise if he flips scum you're a shoe in for his partner?

[Muerrto]

First of all, I must admit I made a mistake when rereading and didnt notice that Muerrto had posted recently so that he didnt need a prod.

Why did that take you 2 weeks and 10 pages to say?

[Muerrto]

Weekend. Post after

[Muerrto]

As Falcone has pointed out there are three possibilities regarding my claim.
a)I could be the real watcher and I have a town win condition
b)I could be scum and I somehow have a town win condition in my PM.
c)I should stop playing mafia and spend all my money in lottery tickets becuase I am extremely lucky : I guessed town's win condition.

How can I possibly worry about suspecting anyone else when you post stuff like that? I mean if you flip scum Tony's obv partner but right now I'm quite cool with watching you burn.

[Muerrto]

@Muerrto: It's stuff like the above posts that I'm talking about. Even if that post is very scummy (it might be), you haven't explained why, and you have used the very same hyperbole and fallacious appeals you've dinged tajo for.

Really? Are you serious?

As Falcone has pointed out there are three possibilities regarding my claim.
a)I could be the real watcher and I have a town win condition
b)I could be scum and I somehow have a town win condition in my PM.
c)I should stop playing mafia and spend all my money in lottery tickets becuase I am extremely lucky : I guessed town's win condition.

Choice A, he's town and a watcher. Choice B is retarded. Scum with a town win condition? Why the hell would you have a town win condition as scum? Choice C is also retarded. Guessing the number between 1-1000 is lucky. Guessing that you win as town when all threats are elimanated etc is NOT lucky, it's obvious. I have no clue where this 1 in 5 crap came from and sadly, neither does Tajo. Read back, that statistic was given by Tony, not Tajo. Tajo simply ran with it because it painted him in a better light.

Is that better?

The reasons why he voted me werent scumtells and were just weak reasons to join a powerful wagon like mine. I wouldnt suspect him this much if he hadnt agreed with me in the first part of the game. He just changed his opinions as soon as he thought I linked him with Ergo.

My point is that he couldnt blame for shit reasoning before (because he agreed with me) then why exactly did he vote me?
I realize my play hasnt been optimal after almost all the town went against me. I just tend to get frustrated when Im attacked for weak reasons. But his reasons for his vote were much before this.

Powerful wagon? When I voted you only had ONE other vote(possibly 2, there's no vote count anywhere near there unfortunately but still no where near a wagon let alone a powerful one). I agreed it was weird Time all of a sudden decided to leave and that's been the basis of your entire case against me so far. I agreed Time was scummy so then when you start doing scummy things and I disagree I'm now scum for 'flipping'? How the hell can anyone actually justify this 'case'?

[Muerrto]

Also, he hasnt presented a case besides mine-s. Hes not scumhunting and keeps pushing my case even though its pretty obvious that Im town.

Can we please lynch him? Oh yeah, make sure he does a analysis of all players here before, kay?

Pretty obvious you're town? Not scumhunting because I'm scumhunting YOU? Do you possibly ever post anything WORTH reading? Saying 'I'm obv town duh why u scumhunting me cause I R town diescumdie' is NOT, repeat NOT a case. I'm not sure how many times I can say that.

Your last 10 pages or so have been nothing but the above quote 'I'm not scum I'm town you're scum start scum hunting because scum hunting me isn't scumhunting since I'm not scum and you should know that somehow because it's in my PM'.

What, so are you saying the most logical conclusion is that he's not scum and indeed the watcher?

No. My point was 'guessing' the win condition is total crap as a reason to be clearing someone. It's not a difficult guess.

Choice B is retarded. Scum with a town win condition? Why the hell would you have a town win condition as scum?

He is saying scum having recieved the town win condition from the mod, not as his own win condition, but just for informational purposes, i.e. to counterbalance arguments based on win condition (basically some mods do this to keep the game on an even playing field). If this didn't happen it would be EXTREMELY easy for town to find scum using win condition.

You've played in a game where scum got the townie PM in their PM? Really? Interesting. Because I've been in over 30 on this site alone and have never seen that.

You said he isn't reading, where it is you who didn't read. In the post you quoted Muerrto from when listing the 3 things against him, the quote even says that Falcone made the list, so I don't get how he wasn't reading.

I was thinking that but this is what he posted.

As Falcone has pointed out there are three possibilities regarding my claim.
a)I could be the real watcher and I have a town win condition
b)I could be scum and I somehow have a town win condition in my PM.
c)I should stop playing mafia and spend all my money in lottery tickets becuase I am extremely lucky : I guessed town's win condition.

How can I possibly worry about suspecting anyone else when

you post stuff like that?

I mean if you flip scum Tony's obv partner but right now I'm quite cool with watching you burn.

He OBVIOUSLY isnt reading since he's accusing me of something Falcone posted. Please pay more attention.

Um...Falcone posted simply 3 choices. You added the cute little 'lottery' crap in there just like all your other posts trying to use the same argument you've used all game 'I'm town and if you disagree then u r stoopid'. That's all you've said literally all game.

You then say because Muerrto is focused on you he has to be scum. Tunnelvision is a null tell, IMO.

I've been tunnelvisioned as town but thats not the point Im attacking. His attacks on me arent tunnelvisions. He HASNT scumhunted and worst he accuses me of not doing that when its pretty OBVIOUS that at least Im doing a better job in gathering information. I dont know who else he suspects. I have done a PBPA and I have stated my opinions of more than one player. Did he? This isnt tunnelvision.

Um...actually that's the exact definition of tunnelvision. Can you explain the difference please?

Another reason you gave for saying Muerrto is scum is that he agreed with you that time was scummy, BUT later decideds to attack you. So what you are saying is that if someone agrees about you for one thing, they must agree with you on EVERYTHING else

No. Im saying that his change of mind is so drastic to be motivated for town motives and his attacks are extremely weak for his experience. Lest put an example. Assume you think a player is scummy. Muerrto supports your reasoning. Therefore Muerrto thinks you're probably town because you're supporting protown behavior and good reasoning. Right? Ok. What would you think of that player if you post this ....

Falcone, what do you think of Ergo's case and lurking? Do you think is a bad case?
Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.
Muerrto, thoughts?

....he posts this

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,

Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular

You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time? Nice. No wonder you had a problem with me agreeing with you about Ergo.

WHERE'S THE FREAKING LINK? WHY DO I DESERVE A VOTE? NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS YET.

You linked us both as lurkers. You also never explained why you tried to make the case I WAS lurking when I obviously wasn't, something you later admitted. Also, how exactly was my change DRASTIC? I agreed Time was acting scummy, I then mentioned it was odd you had a problem with me agreeing. By your own logic, if I agree with you that someone's scummy then I'm pro-town yes? Or were you wrong about Time? Or were we distancing? Make up your mind.

You say he is lying about your scumhunting and pushing your lynch softly. Hmm, I happen to agree with his conclusion on your scumhunting for the most part and I don't believe he has pushed your case softly, especially since he has only been attacking you.

Please tell me how my scumhuting is bad. What is scumhunting for you? And yes he's pushing my lynch softly. He posted a bad case some days ago and all that he has been doing now is Tajo is scummy, Tajo uses retarded logic, Tajo lets keep it civil, Tajo why didnt you post that before?. He doesnt have to do much, ya know? You're doing all his work.
Stop defending someone that isnt confirmed town. THINK FOR YOURSELF.

So because he agrees with me and not you he's not thinking for himself? And how have I pushed your lynch softly? I'm voting you, I'm attacking you constantly, I'm front and center against you, there's no soft here. But scum or not, you CAN be civil. Other people have been stating that you're acting like an ass as well. Can you stop please?

[Muerrto]

I don't like Grimmy agreeing with me for the wrong reasons. You don't vote someone for scum just because he's being an ass(or pissy in your words). It's because his reactions have been overblown and his defense is basically 'duh I'm town stupid' is why I suspect him. Town should be able to do better than that.

FoS: Grimmy

Also

FoS: CP

for defending Tajo for the same wrong reasons. You said it was weird and rare for scum to get the townie win condition, yet Tony and Tajo placed that as a viable option. That's ridiculous. Also, how does Grimmy agreeing with me without me ever agreeing with anything Grimmy said in the entire game link us as scum partners? That's a bad strawman there.

[Muerrto]

Another suspect: Tony Montana.
you seem to be defending Tajo a little TOO much.
-if he flips town, you feel it will clear you as you attached yourself to him with your defense of him.
-If he flips scum, and you are his scum buddy, people will think that you made the mistake of buddying to scum and got fooled. This provides cover for you (I beleive someone put together a "if tajo is scum, then tony is town" arguement earlier)

So basically, you are using wifom to turn both of tajo's hypothetical flips into scumtells for me?

Is that anything similar to you using WIFOM to saying because tajo said he's town(by 'quoting' his PM) that he's town and since I disagree I'm scum?

[Muerrto]

Is that anything similar to you using WIFOM to saying because tajo said he's town(by 'quoting' his PM) that he's town and since I disagree I'm scum?

No. Not similar at all.

Can you post your case on me then?

[Muerrto]

hmmm... my vote stays with Muerrto for now, but its getting close. I'm thinking both he and Grim are probably scum.

How does this not link us?

[Muerrto]

I have never seen anyone suspect two people of being scumpartners from being away from the thread for a while at the same time. Yes you posted right before him, but only by 2 minutes and his post was extremely long, so I can easily see how he didn't see it. Your post before that was over 1.5 days before, and seeing as how you were posting fairly often right before that, I could see it, not agree with it, but see where he was coming from.

My post before that was less than 24 hours before and it was over the weekend. In addition there were others that it had been longer since they posted that he didn't call out. Can you explain that?

[Muerrto]

Will try and post either tonight, tomorrow night(both football) or tuesday more likely. PBPA proably isn't happening at 18 pages. And before anyone talks aout lurking please notice I made this exact same post in another of my games. Sorry NFL > mafia.

[Muerrto]

Waiting to hear from the new guy. Why did we negative vote a pet rock? Why is there speculation on what the negative vote did when the mod clearly stated what it did? I agree with Viv that the negative vote is pointless cause if someone was that well liked we wouldn't need to worry about them being lynched. Wll try and do a re-read but so far nothing really standing out except the Tony/Tajo thing. If either 1 is scum the other obv is.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, lets do things easier for the two of us. Can you summarize why I am still scum?

1. In my experience, when your defense is 'I'm town and you're stupid' you end up being scum. Every post or attack against you was answered with some version of that quote. If that's not the case, try to be more civil and build a logical defense.

2. Turning my agreeing that Time was acting weird/scummy into 'ALWAYS agreeing with you' and my later disagreement with you into a '180' was the biggest stretch I've seen in quite a few games. Either really over-reacting town or stretching scum. It feels more like the second definitely.

3. You have no problem with the massive buddying Tony's been giving you all game. If he's scum and you're town and you have that win condition, why would you all of a sudden take him for obv town just because he says he has it too? Your posts read like you consider him confirmed town when he could easily be scum buddying up. Either you hadn't thought of that or he's your partner. Again siding with the latter.

4. You claimed way too early and expected everyone to take it as gospel. When some didn't you became irate and began insulting/attacking them. Again, if you're not scum, you should be able to build a defense and you should expect that the town isn't going to just believe your word. This is mafia. If you're scum and you fake claim however you can fake being angry that people aren't believing you as an appeal to emotion. Again, you've played like the latter rather than the former.


That's all I can think of at the moment. If you can refute those civily and logically maybe we can get somewhere.

[Muerrto]

I will respond your posts later this evening to show how wrong your appreciations are but the curious thing, Muerrto, is that you think I am scum for reasons that are posterior to your vote. There's no reason for that illogical vote, then?
Also how about you comment on all players here?

Sorry, just did a PBPA in another game, you can check. And being accused of lurking in a couple games and it's pissing me off =p

As for the vote, you asked for me to be prodded over a weekend when I'd posted just the day before. Meta me if it makes you feel better but there is NOTHING that ticks me off more than that.

I've abondoned games for that. Thankfully the mod didn't prod me.

So illogical? Maybe but I had already voiced my worry that you had such a problem with me agreeing with you about Time. Why?

After my vote your reaction just made it stay.

[Muerrto]

Seriously? You should probably chill out a tad (but actually related to this game, I would like to see an example of this claim before I beleive it).

Well 1's ongoing where I actually abondoned it but there's multiple game where I complained about people prodding me over the weekend.

It has nothing to do with chilling. It's retarded to prod over the weekend, period.

The game in question I left the mod told me basically 'You've been prodded twice now(over the weekend both times) if I have to prod you again I'll replace you'. I told him to replace me. That's a really asanine way to play a GAME.

[Muerrto]

Again I claimed for time/frustration reasons. This paragraph is just an extension of paragraph number 1. THAT IS NOT A SCUMTELL. And its pretty obvious I didnt fakeclaim.
So Muerrto you're going to keep pushing this weak case or are you going to acept that you're finally scum?
Peace.

1. Anger

can

be townie but it is usually scum that stoop to insulting other's arguments when they're not able to formulate their fake defense.

2. It's not obvious you didn't fake claim, hence my vote.

3. The agreeing thing is retarded, period. You quoted three posts of mine basically talking about the same thing. So I agree Time's reaction was stange and he looked scummy. How does that in any possible way clear you? Why would you think it's strange that even though I agree with you on Time I can also suspect you? Scenario A, you could be bussing Time. B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him. C, I could be wrong and so could you and we're both targetting some townie. Only 1 of those 3 means you're town. Why then do you find it strange that I can suspect you even after agreeing with you on something else?

[Muerrto]

Scenario A, you could be bussing Time. B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him. C, I could be wrong and so could you and we're both targetting some townie.

How does limiting choices to only those that help you prove anything?

3 of those 3 scenarios mean you are town, so do I take that as proof that you are? If you are going to present an arguments based on scenarios, you have to consider all of them.

Um...no YOU have to consider all of them but since I know my role I don't.

You seem to be intent on using shit argument after shit argument to justify your vote. Using shit arguments is a bit of a scumtell, especially when it is a pattern, but trying to hide the fact that your argument is crap by the way you word it is fairly obvious to me. Either you are scum or completely incompetent town. I am 95% sure its the former. I like my vote exactly where it is.

Also,

B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him.

I seem to remember you claiming that he agreed with you since you first stated suspicion on Time. I will go back and read to make sure, but don't have time to double check this for now, just putting it out for now so I remember.

The first paragraph is excellent posting. lots of good posting and not just random cursing and insulting cases. Insulting cases when you can't think of a good fake one is a definite scum tell.

The second paragraph is excellent as well. Except I already went back and corrected myself that Tajo did in fact mention it first but he didn't quite say the same thing I did. I simply agreed with his post.

Because i can. What's the point of having negative vote powers, if you're not gonna use em to promote your intentions? -.-

Because it was unneccesary. Kind of like unvoting someone when they're nowhere near a lynch but not voting anyone else. It's pointless. Why did you feel you needed to do it even though you hadn't all day?

Also, tajo's argument that Muerrto "totally agreed" (or even just "agreed") with him is somewhat weak, but the real substance of it, that Muerrto's vote for tajo was unprecedented and with weak stated reasonings still holds fairly strong.

I already admitted my vote was because I was ticked he tried to get me prodded when it wasn't needed. However, it's his reaction to the vote that speak volumes more.

[Muerrto]

I already admitted my vote was because I was ticked he tried to get me prodded when it wasn't needed.

Can anyone explain me why does this deserve a vote?

I already admitted it was a horrible reason. I also said your reactions made it stick.

[Muerrto]

I already admitted my vote was because I was ticked he tried to get me prodded when it wasn't needed.

Can anyone explain me why does this deserve a vote?

I already admitted it was a horrible reason. I also said your reactions made it stick.

You mean a reaction like voting someone for asking for a prod? I really don't see how his reaction to you voting for him for a crappy reason makes him scum. Could you explain how it does?

No, I mean his vehemence and insults instead of simply saying 'that was a retarded reason to vote me' or 'how does my asking for your prod make me scum'? Also, town would've most likely said 'oops didn't see you just posted' instead of trying to pursue the crappy case on me.

[Muerrto]

Way to read a game.

And we're back...

[Muerrto]

No, I mean his vehemence and insults instead of simply saying 'that was a retarded reason to vote me' or 'how does my asking for your prod make me scum'? Also, town would've most likely said 'oops didn't see you just posted' instead of trying to pursue the crappy case on me.

Being abrasive or tact-less is not a scumtell.

Agreed. Your(Tajo's not yours) defense being 'I'm town and if you don't think so then you're obv scum' is in fact a definite scum tell. Especially since he's been doing it for like 20 pages now.

[Muerrto]

Interesting post Grimmy. He said nothing about you being scum, or you not being with him in that post. He just stated that you are attacking his playstyle rather than his reasoning. This is an extreme strawman to the point of stupidity. I have arrived at the conclusion that you play stupidly, which makes telling if you are scum really hard. You don't even seem to read the posts you quote, just inject your argument that doesn't fit in.

Also, how can anyone prove their innocence really here. You need to have some proof that he IS scum to be voting. All you have for an argument is a playstyle that you and Muerrto keep saying that he has used all game long. He just posted proof that there are people against him that he does not think are scum. Unlike you and Muerrto who have used strawmen, faulty logic, and shitty reasoning, I really don't see what the case on tajo is. Can someone who is voting for him please post a list of things that prove (or point toward) him being scum?

You do realise CP that you've been defending him all game long and that if he DOES flip scum you'll be lynched immediately. See, as town, you don't know his role. So unless you're claiming mason, I'd back down a tad.

As for proving he's scum? No. Everyone starts in the middle and tips either town or scum. If you start everyone at town you'll never lynch anyone.

[Muerrto]

And you seem to be avoiding my question. Post some things that point toward him being scum, besides this playstyle that you don't like so much. The only thing I have seen from you (that you haven't taken back as a reason) is the fact that he reacted to your shitty vote on him angrily. I would be angry if someone voted me for asking for a prod also. I have seen OMGUS from both of you, which is basically your only stated reason ATM for voting for him. How does that make him more scummy than you? What other reasons make you think he is scum?

He reacted that way to EVERYONE that attacked him though. His defense all game has been 'I'm town'. My case has been posted multiple times.

MIA per my sig. I'll try and check tomorrow morning if needed.

[Muerrto]

You do realise CP that you've been defending him all game long and that if he DOES flip scum you'll be lynched immediately. See, as town, you don't know his role. So unless you're claiming mason, I'd back down a tad.

SFOS: Muerrto

This just sounds like you're threatening CP in order for him to stop helping save tajo.

No, I'm telling him to stop defending Tajo like he knows Tajo's role. And to his credit, CP admitted he was doing it, admitted it was a bad idea, and admitted he was defending someone against bad arguments.

So he's not defnding Tajo so much as he's attacking my case. Huge difference and helps my opinion of CP a bit. Still very dangerous to stick your neck out that far for someone when you're not sposed to know whether they're scum or not.

[Muerrto]

I always play kind of overeagerly. Sorry if that makes you think I may be scum but eventually every game someone is going to suspect you. I just rather that I would have drudged up information leading to the lynch of scum if I do get lynched than sitting back just to survive not helping at all.

Lol you've read my posts, right? I agree completely about being agressive, not sitting back, etc. but it's the fact your constant defense of someone you just put third on your scum list that is definitely strange.

[Muerrto]

Still on vacation like my sig says.

Posting in a couple games before someone points that out but not spending a whole lot of time on the forum as a whole.

Be back sunday/monday.

[Muerrto]

Five days 'til deadline...

Bleh, I'm fine with where my vote is.

Ditto.

[Muerrto]

You're fine with potentially lynching a PR on day one?

A

potenial

watcher when nothing in his play has labelled him as town?

Yes.

But, yeah, I'd vote Tony if I had to. Those two are way too closely knit right now.

[Muerrto]

The above post doesnt make sense in 100 ways.

Sigh...did you want to explain this or just say it? Looking back on your posts I can already see the answer but just wondering...

[Muerrto]

My case on Tajo started with his reaction to my vote.

I voted him because he called for a prod when it wasn't needed. Trying to say people are lurking is a good way to build a wagon on them. Since I WASN'T lurking it was a BS prod.

When I voted him he FLIPPED out. One second he wasn't saying a word about me except that for some reason he had a problem with me agreeing about Time. What followed were pages of Tajo cursing everyone, never posting a defense other than 'I R TOWN, U R DUMB', claiming when there was no reason to, CLEARING Tony because he agreed with Tajo's 'win condition', more cursing, more 'Stop voting me, I'm town'. Etc.

Can his reaction be frustrated townie? At one point maybe, but not this far in. And the fact he's 100% sure I'm scum is suspect. Why? Because I suspect you? Because I didn't agree that knowing the win condition makes you town?

Wouldn't you assume since this is 'This could be mafia' that all win conditions are going to say 'could'? If you were scum, couldn't you just SWITCH the town/scum words and quote the win condition? Sorry, but you got a PM too as did Tony so him agreeing so quickly with you and you clearing him so completely makes me look really closely at both of you.

I could care less about a watcher. You have to target the actual mafia doing the kill(or a mafia with a power) to even be of use. I think your claim was early, unneccessary, and BS. I think you're scum and Tony's either stupid or your partner. I can't believe neither of you ever thought that mafia would ge getting the same 'could' win condition.

[Muerrto]

I could win when all threats to the mafia are eliminated? Really?
Really, Muerrto? Do you think thats the mafia win condition?

Sounds about right. I wouldn't know =p

[Muerrto]

My bad, was thinking tracker. Ok, so watcher's even worse, he has to target the ONE PERSON WHO DIES!

That gives him what odds? And how exactly do we determine whether he's legit?

And why did you feel the need to defend him?

[Muerrto]

No. I don't buy his claim. Others are saying well he's claimed PR. I'm saying umm he didn't claim cop or doc he claimed watcher. Even IF he's telling the truth it's no big loss and I STILL don't buy his claim.

[Muerrto]

This is mainly for Shadow, Tony, and other's favoring Tony over Tajo for a lynch. See you think Tajo is stupid for clearing Tony. But look at these quotes. I think Tony is stupid(no offense) for clearing Tajo or else Tajo was bussing Tony.

Look how Tajo is going off on Tony, saying he's scum with me etc. What exactly changed Tajo to make you go from this:

Finally, guys.
TonyMontana's post is utter bullshit and I feel good at least some people realize that.
Notice how Ergo and Muerrto dont give a shit about that post.

Unvote

No comment on the question I asked of you several times.

Sorry, must have missed it?

Wow, just wow.

3) Pretty sure I catched at least two scum in my wagon. Now Im seeing Tony and Muerrto,maybe Ergo as possible candidats.
And Fuzzy, why do you think Ergo and Muerrto (post 211 and 212, respectively) didnt comment anything about Tony's 213, the worst post Ive seen in mafiascum in a while?

LOL, Tony's 210.
And people can you unvote me?

How am I trying to divide the town?
Why isnt people suspecting TonyMontana? Or Muerrto?

To this:

Tony isnt scum BTW.

less than 24 hours after that last post asking why more people didn't suspect Tony.

[Muerrto]

It's possible but not likely. Honestly After re-reading and posting Tajo's attacks on him it really doesn't look like bussing. I think Tony's unfortunately cleared Tajo because of the win condition thing and Tajo's latched onto that.

In otherwords, you think Tajo's messed up and cleared Tony. I think Tony's messed up and cleared Tajo. In fact after re-reading I'd be much less inclined to vote Tony. I'm not sure who I'd look at after Tajo.

[Muerrto]

LOLWTF?
Muerrto, what are you doing?
1)The quotes from 626 are taken out of context.
2)Maybe you are missing the posts between these last two quotes where Tony admits to have unvoted me because he has the same exact win condition?

How am I trying to divide the town?
Why isnt people suspecting TonyMontana? Or Muerrto?

Why did you vote for populartajo then?
Why do you believe the claim?

Bandwaggoning.
Well, I guess the fact that a line from his claim was identical (As in word for word) to my own town role was what I took notice of first. It's somewhat of a common phrase for pro-town role PMs, and I'm unsure of if you could assume it's being used, judging from what you get as a scum.

Yeah, I kinda thought that, but i did a quick survey of like 5 mini games, and only found 1 instance of it being used.
So it may be regularly used, but it's not a safe bet.

Tony isnt scum BTW.

That's what changed from ridiculous, utter bullshit post (his unexplained unvote) to Tony isnt scum BTW.
STOP LYING YOU SCUMBAG!!11

So you're saying he went from obv scum in your book to obv town? Hm...that sounds familiar but in the opposite direction... How can you possibly disagree with someone on everything and then do a complete 180 and agree with him on everything? You must be scum!

(If you don't get what I'm trying to say there, I'll explain)

Joking aside, I said several times you read that and latched onto it. I don't buy it, period.

[Muerrto]

Lol last I checked I have 3 votes and not too many people pointed in my direction. Shrug

Negative Vote: Muerrto

[Muerrto]

Your post is as bad as your earlier ones. Meaningless drivel shouted by a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. You even broke the page with your tantrum. GJ!

How bout you do what Shadow asked and post your case...kinda like I already did?

[Muerrto]

The lists/ratings are always a bad idea because it tells scum who the most town people are and who are the safe night kills. I don't do them. I WILL try and re-read and see who would be my second/third suspect over the next couple days.

[Muerrto]

Relax, it was sarcasm playing off Muerrto's weird vote earlier for being prodded. I thought that was pretty obvious by the "... not really". I'll use [/sarcasm] instead next time.

Expect my prod was specifically requested by my name and it was said that I hadn't posted in a while. Small difference. No biggie tho.

[Muerrto]

The only question you asked is the same one you've asked all game. You asked for my prod and INSTEAD of saying 'oops my bad' you went off on me for pages and pages even causing suspiscion on yourself and forcing your claim and then much, MUCH later said 'oops my bad'. Yes, I think that's a tad scummy.

Without your claim you'd have been lynched by now because of it.

When I voted you were nowhere near getting lynched, why did you freak out so much from 1 vote? Why does it matter why I voted you? Voting =/= lynching.

[Muerrto]

First, its not the only question. Read my other posts for the other questions. Now, Muerrto, do you really think it wasnt a mistake? Do you think that I as scum would start a lurkerhunt specially in someone who wasnt lurking? It was a mistake, why is that so hard to understand? Yes, it took a while because I assumed it was pretty obvious.

I didnt freak out because I was going to be lynched. I did freak out because your vote was like the most unexpected thing in my whole time here in MS. That was like the worst reason to vote for someone and I think finally some people are realizing what Im talking about.

First, if you're asking me to answer YOUR questions you don't say 'go find them'. Post 'em if you want 'em answered.

Second, it obviously wasn't OBVIOUS since I asked you about it REPEATEDLY and you constantly avoided the subject until finally pages later you said 'oops'. So saying you thought it was obvious and that's why you didn't say anthing is bull, period.

And finally, I've seen much worse votes, much worse. And no matter what the reason, your reaction to 1 vote was insane. Notice how it gained you alot more votes and forced you to claim. Doesn't sound so crazy to vote you anymore, does it? Are all the people who voted you scum? Or just some?

[Muerrto]

I feel that the scum could have been given a sample town role pm in their role pm.

I don't like Tajo and I'm fine lynching him but I REALLY don't like this. Has anyone EVER played in a game where you got OTHER people's PM's in yours?

I haven't...

[Muerrto]

No I think it's more that Skitzer hasn't updated it quite yet. I'd find it odd that at least which side they're on wasn't revealed.

[Muerrto]

Ok this is just sad people...

Anyway, I'll be gone till Sunday.

Happy Holidays!!!

[Muerrto]

Replace me. Personal problems. Sorry.

[Muerrto]

muerrto blocked tajo and killed tony

sorry I left guys, lots of real life stuff made me leave all my games at once but I kept watching it

was pretty sure CP was scum, didn't know about Bat yet, told u I wasn't scum

[Muerrto]

muerrto blocked tajo and killed tony

sorry I left guys, lots of real life stuff made me leave all my games at once but I kept watching it

was pretty sure CP was scum, didn't know about Bat yet, told u I wasn't scum

How the hell a SK isnt scum?

SK is an individual role. Saying I'm 'scum' insinuates I'm part of a team and working toward a common goal of getting the town lynched. An SK doesn't care who's lynched as long as it's not him.

I think there's a long drawn out thread about SK vs. 'scum' somewhere if you get that bored. Suffice to say SK =/= scum.