Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[Wall-E]

/confirm

Vote: armlx

armlx and repeat were on a bridge. armlx fell off, who was left?

[Wall-E]

oh whoops "confirmation stage"

well that will be my vote whenever we start for real

[Wall-E]

****SERIOUS VOTE ALARM - WOOT WOOT - DOGS AND SIRENS****

Oh, I thought it was an L. >_>

Unvote

Vote: Slicey

for unvoting.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Azuma (1): Empking
Empking (1): RestFermata
Xtoxm (1): farside22
Slicey (1): Wall-E

Not voting (21): Xtoxm, Megatheory, al4xz, Moratorium, Azuma, Mana_Ku, Surye, armlx, Alabaska J, martin413, Sir Tornado, Shanba, Elmo, Slicey, Cream147, Jebus, Riceballtail, Slepz, Demon Pineapple, fouxdufafa, DynamoXI

[Wall-E]

For the record: I agree with lynching lurkers in a deadlined large game for the first few days. After a few days has passed, I'd not be so inclined to lynch a lurker. Dunno if everyone wants to just discuss lurking for two weeks, but I'd rather not, so that's my stance and I'd appreciate it if everyone posted their stance and we moved on to other things.

Suggested topic: Cream's post which garnered a small amount of attention. Good, bad, what?

Personally, I think Cream's a bit scummy.

[Wall-E]

@Tornado: Yes, I get it, which I quite clearly stated, but you're missing the point. Just answer instead of trying to disguise your answer in quotes.
@Shanba: Care to explain your vote?

No.

Don't do this. Don't start a case on someone and then refuse to provide evidence/thoughts. Do not.

[Wall-E]

Right.
Answering your question, you did no such thing. You just repeated what Shanba said in slightly different words.

That's called original thought.

[Wall-E]

My vote is partly a reminder ot myself to keep an eye on Blakadder, partly an acknowledgement that he is who I find scummiest right now and partly an attempt to get a reaction [etc]

...so you agree that you should have stated reasons? Because you just stated them...


@armlx: My thoughts: This game is too young to have strong opinions yet, but I'm forming one about Shanba based on this exchange. I also think BlackAdder has made some excellent points so far.

Anything else you want to hear my thoughts on, just ask.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E: (6) /confirm, jokevotes, suggests lurkers are fair game for first few days, calls out

Scummy

, calls out Shanba's gameplay, refutes BlackAddr's attack on SirT

Calls out who?

[Wall-E]

I don't see how I'm "blowing things out of proportion." All I said was that it would be helpful if you explained yourself instead of telling us that your actions should be obvious. Other people have voted you for it; I didn't think it was THAT big of a deal.

But, I have already explained everything (reasonable). That is precisely the point everyone was missing.

If it seems like everyone else is being unreasonable, the common denominator is you. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but don't blame everyone else for your posts causing confusion (or not, as the case may be interpreted).

@Moritorium: That's what I thought you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

[Wall-E]

Moratorium: What exactly was the point of that post? Are you keeping track of votes, commenting on people in the game? What did it tell you about each player and who in that did you find the scummies?

The point of that post was to appear as if he were actually contributing something to the game.

I strongly consider a PBPA to be participation. He's not obligated to share his thoughts, but simply showing that he's read the thread increases his esteem in my eyes. What more do you want? Ask him directly if there's more you'd like from him.

[Wall-E]

I should have not said "PBPA" as it includes the word "analysis," which he didn't do. I should have said "evidence that he's read the thread."

[Wall-E]

To add context to armlx's 286: armlx has contributed nothing but flip-floppery and policy votes to this game thus-far. He's voting for someone who has put more effort into the game than him (for putting not enough effort into the game, essentially).

BttH: armlx

(boot to the head)

[Wall-E]

When people post in a mafia game, I take it for granted that they have read the thread unless they specifically mention otherwise.

I agree, but that's not what I'm saying.

Showing fresh evidence that you have JUST re-read the entire thread is superior to posting with no content. There are players who are lurking and not posting analysis who need to be our attention's priority. I don't think anyone should be voting for someone for paraphrasing the thread, as it lends a new perspective on the game (ever heard the scientific adage that the observer always affects the observed?).

[Wall-E]

My vote stays on Slicey for now. Nothing worse has popped up yet. Be back Thursday.

[Wall-E]

@Slicey: I stated my reason for voting for you when I cast the vote.

@Moritorium: A+ PBPs, sir.

@armlx: Ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Wall-E]

@Megatheory: read Surye's posts defending himself. I agree with him.

@Wall-E: I think your vote on Slicey is fairly weak.

Then we are in agreement.

[Wall-E]

@Slicey: I stated my reason for voting for you when I cast the vote.

Something along the fact that I unvoted during the joke voting phase, correct?

Not entirely. I'll elaborate if you need me to.

[Wall-E]

Vote: armlx

because I have no idea how to pronounce your name.

Oh, I thought it was an L. >_>

Unvote

This. Why unvote a random vote just because your random reason was incorrect? It seems like you had another motive there.

[Wall-E]

Stop it. It's unproductive, and you're unlikely to change anyone's mind, even if you are right.

I strongly disagree with the idea that any player should keep their opinions to themselves.

[Wall-E]

Shanba, what is your "legitimate reason," in summary?

[Wall-E]

I was hoping for a very short, one sentence summary from Shanba. I know what he/she is saying, but I wanted it made much more clear and concise for the public record.

[Wall-E]

A vote on Empking would achieve nothing.

Why?

As for BlakAdder, I'm not convinced he's scum...yet

Why do you have to be convinced someone is scum to vote them?

These statements seem to imply you are sure Emp is scum. Is that true?

Where on earth did you draw that implication from? I didn't scan that at all.

[Wall-E]

What leads you to suspect Emp more then BA?

By the way he is posting, it looks like's trying to get a quick lynch, and he doesn't really care who it is as long as it isn't himself. Plus, he's contributed next to nothing in this game. All of his posts have been about a sentence or two. >_>

Mind backing the first point. The sond point, I'm pretty sure that that's more than some people. The third point is my play style.

I found no evidence of the first point (pushing for a quck lynch) anywhere in the thread. Empking never pushed for a quick lynch.

I found no evidence of the second point (doesn't care who it is) anywhere in the thread. Empking never said this, nor did he exhibit behavior to suggest it.

I find Empking's participation satisfactory. He states his opinions on BWs and issues discussed without delving too deeply into the discussion. Provided he also answers questions thrown at him, he's playing just fine IMO.

If you are on L-1 please claim.

Don't claim.

What's up with the change?

Devil's Advocate mode activate: Slicey, why did you make the accusations I quoted and bolded? Can you explain them? I'll unvote you if you can do so convincingly.

[Wall-E]

I'd just like to note this wagon moved way too fast to not be scum powered in some way, regardless of Slicey's alignment.

I've seen mafia bus their partners on the early half of a BW only to watch in horror as the BW went to lynch. In fact, it's happened to ME before.

[Wall-E]

Ok. Thanks.

[Wall-E]

Or a lot of townies who are desperate to get some infrmation after 17 pages of discussion...

Ignore me. I always play devil's advocate.

[Wall-E]

Can you elaborate?

[Wall-E]

Because as I typed it I realized I didn't really believe it.

[Wall-E]

That's the essence of Devil's Advocate, saying the other possibility depite not actually believing it.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Slicey (11): Wall-E, Shanba, Jebus, armlx, Surye, farside22, Riceballtail, Moratorium, Empking, BlakAdder, Alabaska J
Surye (2): Demon Pineapple, Sir Tornado
Empking (2): RestFermata, Slicey
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
farside22 (1): martin413
armlx (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): killa seven

Not voting (6): al4xz, Azuma, Cream147, Slepz, ace1217, Megatheory

With 25 alive it's 13 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

I'm not arguing against you using Devil's Advocate. I'm saying, there's no point in posting

and then telling people to ignore that post

oh you caught me i'm satan

[Wall-E]

@Megatheory: read Surye's posts defending himself. I agree with him.

That's awfully lazy. If you find me so suspicious that I deserve a vote, why aren't you explaining yourself, pushing me, and trying to figure out if I'm really scum or not?

FoS Alabaska J

I figured it was obvious

I figured it was known to all

I figured it was implied

I will never again infer things, as apparently even the simplest things for me can pass others by.

Good. You shouldn't be implying things anyway. You should be clear and direct. Ambiguity is the tool of scum.

Since you now have evidence that you're smarter than the rest of the town, I recommend dumbing down your posts to our level.

That was sarcasm. Being smart is not equal to being cryptic.

[Wall-E]

Which is one reason why I want that reasoning.

In fact,

Unvote

until al4xz summarizes said post. I fully intend to revote as soon as that happens pretty much regardless of what he said (barring the absolutely scummiest thing possible), I just want him to post reasons today rather then tomorrow.

Seconded.

Unvote

[Wall-E]

Vote: Slicey

thanks

[Wall-E]

Why the Jester mention?

Why hasn't martin413 posted since the 20th? I'd like to see a scum top 3 from martin413.

Xtoxm has claimed Day Cop and that Armlx is scum... was that a joke? It appears so.

BttH: Xtoxm

. Don't do that. Every time I read the thread now I'm going to freak out for a split-second. Not cool.

Was Azuma replaced?

[Wall-E]

well poo on inside jokes

mumble mumble

where's mah whiskey

[Wall-E]

happy birthday, and if slicey flips town,

fos: sir T

[Wall-E]

happy birthday, and if slicey flips town,

fos: sir T

I disagree wholeheartedly with this.

Why?

[Wall-E]

Don't answer for other people.

[Wall-E]

I think they would bus early in the hopes it would derail.

[Wall-E]

p. sure slicey's at l-1

slicey got anything to say?

i realize there's not a lot to defend against, but you could comb the thread, assemble the collected attacks and rebuttle them...

[Wall-E]

Different vote positions and reasonings hold different weight in post wagon analysis.

WRONG!

At this stage in the wagon, if you aren't unvoting, you're essentially hammering.

I never said I was blaming the hammerer for a mislynch if one happens. I was only not absolving them of being related to the lynch if they do and it flips that Slicey was town.

So you're making extremely obvious statements to appear active.

Noted.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Slicey (12): Wall-E, Shanba, Jebus, armlx, Surye, farside22, Riceballtail, Moratorium, Empking, BlakAdder, Alabaska J, al4xz
Surye (2): Demon Pineapple, Sir Tornado
Empking (2): RestFermata, Slicey
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
farside22 (1): martin413
armlx (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): killa seven

Not voting (5): Azuma, Cream147, Slepz, ace1217, Megatheory

With 25 alive it's 13 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

Different vote positions and reasonings hold different weight in post wagon analysis.

WRONG!

At this stage in the wagon, if you aren't unvoting, you're essentially hammering.

No, not wrong.

The best example I can think of was the old school 3rd on the wagon tell, which was actually legit until it over used.

Alright, after reviewing both sides of this issue, I have decided that I see the problem. I disagree with the premise that hammering should be considered the responsibility of any one player. The entire town should decide when it's hammer time, or at least the majority voting for the lynch target should. If it is the case that one person hammers without majority approval, then that person assumes more than his or her share of the blame for the lynch. I believe that continuing to vote for someone at L-1 is the same as approving a hammer.

I never said I was blaming the hammerer for a mislynch if one happens. I was only not absolving them of being related to the lynch if they do and it flips that Slicey was town.

So you're making extremely obvious statements to appear active.

Noted.

Huh? What the hell are you talking about here?

I misread what you wrote. My bad. Still, it

was

a very obvious statement to make, if you did intend that.

[Wall-E]

This hammer discussion will yield no scum fruit. Let's agree to disagree now that everyone knows where everyone stands on the issue and talk more about Slicey.

I am going to play devil's advocate and defend Slicey.

[Wall-E]

Post 0: /confirm post only
Post 1: Random vote: armlx
Post 2: Retraction which led to Wall-E's vote
Post 3: Random vote: fouxdufafa
Post 4: Defends lurking (sorta)
Post 5: Points out that fouxdufafa parroted his post 5
Post 6: Unvote and an FoS: Empking for "pushing people to vote"
Post 7: Calls Blackadder suspicious for attacking Sir T's posting style, then points out to al4xz that one vote is not a case (?)
Post 8: Reveals that he doesn't understand the definition of "case" by misusing it again. Says Moritorium's post wasn't useless, which I personally agree with.
Posts 9 and 10: Asking me why I'm voting for him rather than looking it up himself.
Post 11: Calls Sir T out for being "vague." (will review this one next)
Post 12: Meta defenses on the BW forming on him
Post 13: Wishy-washy as hell, basically contradicts himself like a politician and says nothing of merit. I think this is a null-tell. He seems nervous and unsure, and feels pressure to perform.
Post 14: Votes for Empking under duress. Only reason given was in his sixth post where he said Empking was "pushing for a lynch." I think this is an acceptable reason for a vote, and again his lack of confidence has forced him to adapt to the mafiascum.net playing style against his will, making him look bad to us and us look pushy and mean to him.
Posts 15 - 17 are him basically throwing in the towel, a newbie scumtell I'm told, though this could very well be a personality trait.

[Wall-E]

forgot to say that was a pbpa of slicey's posts in the game

[Wall-E]

That was pretty damning as Devil's Advocate.

I don't think I'd want you as my lawyer.

Naw, it's full of huge holes and fallacious assumptions. I wouldn't want him as my lawyer, but for different reasons ;P

You're going to have to back that up.

[Wall-E]

Empking's 7th vote does technically ask rhetorically "Why are people not voting?"

The question seems to indicate a push for people to vote.

Voting does technically lead to lynches.

[Wall-E]

I have to say, I'm a fan of Sir Tornado. After reading his posts I have to disagree with Slicey: Sir T's not vague at all.

To continue to defend Slicey: Slicey might just have poor reading comprehension skills.

It's sad that I feel I have to stoop to insulting Slicey in order to continue defending him... but even when playing Devil's Advocate I have to maintain my world view.

[Wall-E]

Our options:

A) Hammer Slicey
B) Wait for Slicey to return and defend himself
C) Pick a new lynch target

I'm leaning toward B.

Before the hammer, I'd like a response to my post (499).

What huge holes?

What fallacious assumptions?

[Wall-E]

I was approaching it not having actually looked (recently) at the post he referenced. Had he been pushing for a lynch, I would not call voting for him scummy. It turns out, actually, he was pushing for votes, which given Slicey's misuse of the term "case" might be another vocabulary-related error, and might just be silly logic or grasping. I'm done defending him, so I'm going to say what I really think: It was probably unintentionally faulty logic, but since he was ambiguous, I have to interpret it in the worst possible light for the sake of the town and maintain my vote.

So.

[Wall-E]

Maybe he still doesn't realize it's faulty, or disagrees that it's faulty.

You should be asking him, but I understand the difficulty there :/

[Wall-E]

Shanba - Saw a few of his posts, and I can't really explain but I just found him scummy.

Usually when I make a post like this I DO have a reason, but it's a reason others might not agree with or might think is totally unconventional, so I call it "gut" to avoid people jumping my $#!+ over it.

Is that the case here?

[Wall-E]

This is why we don't tell jokes until after the game's over.

[Wall-E]

holy goat saucers

can you give us a top 3?

[Wall-E]

The deadline is two days away. I don't think it would be impossible for us to change targets today, but I do think it would be difficult, and arbitrary, as I personally haven't seen behavior worse than Slicey's, and I doubt anyone's going to do something so bad as to warrant a mass voteshift.

But.

We DO still have two days to discuss Slicey's lynch, so I want everyone to give their opinion on whether or not they think Slicey is scum.

I'll start by saying I feel it's 60% likely Slicey is scum, 40% likely he just made some weird choices as town and got everyone's hackles raised. Basically, I'm a little meh on this lynch, but overall I feel Slicey's likely scum.

[Wall-E]

Xtoxm: I made a case that Slicey might be right in attacking Empking earlier in the thread. Did you read it, Xtoxm? What did you think?

[Wall-E]

I'm not following Shanba. I think I was actually first to vote Slicey, for reasons other than his case on Empking. Shanba, claiming that others are following you is a bit of a strange claim.

[Wall-E]

Well that was a headache. WE, I could not find the case you mention. Please link. I don't necessarily think Slicey's case is good, but I certainly don't find it scummy, is my current thought.

WE, if you're vote on Slicey was not a joke vote, then it is terribly poor reasoning.

I was actually

defending

Slicey (as best I could, given my natural biases/policies).

I'll go dig up some quotes, if you'd like, but you're entitled to your opinion. I wish you'd do more than simply say "No." with no real statements of why.

Do you feel that Slicey was right when he claimed Empking was pushing for a lynch, and didn't care who died?

Do you feel that Empking is scummy?

[Wall-E]

When a quick wagon springs up like this on Day One, and they claim townie, the suspect is more often than not telling the truth.

Does more often then not = more then proportionate to the townie:scum ratio?

What are you saying, here? I think what you're asking is if the ratio of player to scum (typically 9:2, I believe) is higher than the ratio of towies lynched D1 to scum lynched D1 (see below).

Say the average spread were 5 town lynched for 1 scum on D1 (I doubt it's that high a success rate for town, but let's work some numbers). That would mean the odds of lynching scum on D1 are actually lower than the ratio of town to scum (9:2 vs 10:2). In that scenario, it would be a bad idea to follow through with this lynch.

Say the average spread were 4 town lynched to 1 scum (less likely). That's 9:2 vs 8:2, a vegas-odds higher success rate, meaning we'd win more often than lose in this scenario.

Is that what you're asking? I'm going to go with "It's very, very unlikely we're playing the odds safe in this situation, given that there ARE scum able to influence the lynch."

Mod edit
Votecount:
Slicey (11): Wall-E, Shanba, armlx, Surye, farside22, Riceballtail, Moratorium, Empking, BlakAdder, Alabaska J, al4xz
Surye (2): Demon Pineapple, Sir Tornado
Empking (2): RestFermata, Slicey
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
farside22 (1): martin413
armlx (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): killa seven

Not voting (6): Azuma, Cream147, Slepz, ace1217, Megatheory, Jebus

With 25 alive it's 13 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

This is a dangerous road, armlx. On one hand, you might catch every scum in the next five games you're in if you correlate enough data. On the other hand, you'd basically be giving the scum a playbook

[Wall-E]

Don't be vague like that, sir T. What were your views, and how have they changed?

[Wall-E]

Slicey ain't posted in six days. It's not lurking: Scum would have posted by now. Slicey's likely just V/LA.

Anyone got a meta on Slicey from other games?

Regardless, I'm in favor of a Slicey hanging, and don't really mind waiting however long for that to happen. And if it doesn't, it'll be because someone scummier came along, and I won't really mind THEM hanging either. Unless the town loses their minds and lynches someone totally town for stupid reasons, I think we're doing just fine so far today.

[Wall-E]

in b 4 eod

[Wall-E]

.............isn't it tonight?

[Wall-E]

<---i kan reed wurds an comprahendshon them good! dahurrr! *drools on shirt*

[Wall-E]

Biggest other wagon.

Slicey (9): Wall-E, armlx, Surye, Riceballtail, Moratorium, Empking, BlakAdder, Alabaska J, al4xz
Surye (2): Demon Pineapple, Sir Tornado

[Wall-E]

Empking also... unless you meant, like, "VOTE: There. Now this is the other biggest wagon."

FoS: Xtoxm

for hopping off one arbitrary wagon and onto another arbitrary wagon with no stated reason.

[Wall-E]

Happy b-day, Lawrencelot!



CAKE

[Wall-E]

What, is that meant as some kind of stab at me? Because I never voted Slicey.

And anyone who left looks better in my eyes. Slicey was a poor lynch.

No. What he means is that the mafia KNOW who is scum and who is town, and rather than lynch a townie and garner suspicion, some scum may have jumped off Slicey at the last second.

I disagree with saying that Slicey was a poor option. We didn't get a defense out of him, so he wasn't going to be very useful to us as a town anyway, and now we've got things to look at (such as what the good doctor mentioned).

[Wall-E]

WE - Are you saying you'd lynch someone 100% just because you thought that they wouldn't be useful in catching scum?

No.

[Wall-E]

I'm not much liking Xtoxm's jumpy, schitzophrenic behavior today.

[Wall-E]

We should really be examining who was on the Slicey wagon near the beginning and middle, but who left near the end.

Meaning that YOU are going to hop right on that, I'm too jaded to assume.

I'll take a whack at it.

Slepz started it off with a random vote on page 2. (random)

Next was me on page 3, for unvoting, the first not-random vote of the game, I believe. (unvoting)

On page 14, Shanba makes three on the wagon.

Surye attacks/adds fuel to the fire on Slicey on this page also because of the discussion of Shanba's vote and my vote.

Armlx jumps on on page 15 to "get this moving."

Jebus
Armlx
Surye - all three on page 16.

Blackadder joins on page 17.

At this point I noticed that farside 22 apparently jumped onboard at some point, but damned if I'm going all the way back to see where precisely right this second. It's possible that he misspelled "slicey" when he voted, as I'm searching the thread via ctrl+f.

Armlx and I both hop off and on again for some reason. I assume it was to prevent a lynch while a question was answered, as I'm prone to do that, but didn't stop to check.

Jebus unvotes. Slicey is at L-2 afterwards.

Restfermata puts up the final vote just before Slicey would have hung anyway, hammering him.

So there it is. Slicey's bandwagon. I'm looking at Surye and Jebus, personally.

[Wall-E]

To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.

Jebus unvoted.

Those are my reasons for suspecting them.

[Wall-E]

RBT has made nine posts in 28 pages. There isn't enough of an anything to build a case ON, aside from maybe lurking. I think RBT needs to give a top three.

[Wall-E]

One of any three random players is statistically likely to be scum.

Just sayin'.

[Wall-E]

After a cooldown and a re-read, this is my decision.

Vote: Surye

FoS: Jebus

For the reasons I stated in post 670.

[Wall-E]

I held off making a decision on you because I wasn't very sure. After a re-read, I made my decision. I'm still not much more than 60% sure.

[Wall-E]

To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.

Jebus unvoted.

Those are my reasons for suspecting them.

Did it really look like I was trying to avoid looking like I was all for the wagon? I still stand by that lynch, it was the right move with the information at the time. Your suspicion amounts to "He discussed things without voting".

It looked like you were priming your vote by first testing the water on your choice. I admit, it's weak at best, but I'm going to stand by it until I'm convinced of another course of action.

[Wall-E]

Actually... this is more interesting on review. Look at my posts in isolation. Look at the first page. Ctrl-F for Slicey.

First mention of Slicey: I was attacking Wall-E's pathetic line of reasoning (not to be confused with defending Slicey).

Second mention of Slicey: I VOTED SLICEY, WITH EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM.

To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.

Jebus unvoted.

Those are my reasons for suspecting them.

Wall-E. You flat out lied. What is your defense?

If I lied it was on accident. Can you clarify what was the lie?

[Wall-E]

Muerto: How long will it take?

[Wall-E]

Surye, you seemed scummy to me as well. I agree that Riceball's PBPA is a little light in the A, but if you read it, there is analysis in there, and I find myself nodding in places as I read the post. I encourage everyone to read the posts Surye has made in isolation to see what you think, but personally I have changed my mind on him.

He was right about his 28th post being AFTER his vote on Slicey. He also strongly advocated the lynch of a townie. All together, something about him rubbed my gut the wrong way, and I have strong faith in my gut, but I'm going to

Unvote

and

FoS: Surye

instead, as I have no case, but I do have suspicion based only on instinct.

Vote: Sir T.

, randomly.

Mod: Sir Tornado is dead in this game. However, I keep track of correct votes on incorrect targets as well, so your vote will appear in the votecount. Unvote before voting again.

[Wall-E]

I attacked did not attack him, nice misdirection.

This looks like two sentences that you deleted words from and accidentally forgot to fix the sentence so it made sense again.

[Wall-E]

I'm not too happy with xtoxm's recent posts.

Knowing nothing about his alignment, i'd say he has an agenda.

An examination of creme is in order, imo, so I'll read his/her posts before making a judgement.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (3): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto
Cream147 (3): armlx, Empking, BlakAdder
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Riceballtail (1): Xtoxm
Sir T. (1): Wall-E
Xtoxm (1): Surye

Not voting (11): Megatheory, al4xz, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Alabaska J, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

Vote: Xtoxm

Mod: not counted, unvote first

[Wall-E]

I still have that Day Cop result...

I don't get this post. Did you intend it as a joke, Xtoxm?

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (4): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto, Xtoxm
Cream147 (2): Empking, BlakAdder
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Sir T. (1): Wall-E
Xtoxm (2): Surye, armlx

Not voting (11): Megatheory, al4xz, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Alabaska J, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

Was kinda hoping the post where I said I was joking would convey that...

I'm a drooling retard, I guess. Mind not joking and scaring us retards? It's hard enough remembering when to take my pills.

[Wall-E]

The common denominator is you, Xtoxm.

[Wall-E]

The guy who tried to prevent yesterday's mislynch must be scum.

Are you talking about yourself there?

[Wall-E]

Since you did not give the antecedent to the pronoun, I have no idea. If you're talking about yourself, don't you think the scum know who isn't scum, and so trying to stop a lynch on a townie is more of a scumtell than a town tell (within reason)...? Enough people believed in the Slicey lynch that he hung. Are you now saying that you presented enough evidence to derail the bandwagon and were ignored? I see you decrying the lynch, but you hardly made an effort to fight it down.

[Wall-E]

That post was childish and smells desperate to me.

[Wall-E]

I just find it odd that your three targets from D1 have been Shanba, Jebus and Armlx, with no cases stated, and you haven't changed your mind. Are you so confident in your early game analysis that you believe you've found three scum at one shot?

I just can't buy the bridge you're selling.

[Wall-E]

That was directed to Xtoxm.

[Wall-E]

Actually, I have. From day 1. Anything else to say on the matter?

[Wall-E]

Sorry, you gave Surye and RBT a little heat.

[Wall-E]

Care to elaborate?

[Wall-E]

Right. Then I'm happy with my vote.

[Wall-E]

Your post 856 scans like a teenage girl in a tantrum, as to several others before it.

[Wall-E]

So does that one. It's almost like you WANT a ton of attention.

[Wall-E]

Easily. Don't throw information into the pot that you don't want scrutinized. I feel like I'm lecturing a child on not touching the hot, hot stove.

I'm going to see what the rest of the town has to say about this wagon.

[Wall-E]

So I'm supposed to know Xtoxm is special? Screw that. I played that straight, and stand by everything I said, regardless of how cruddy Xtoxm's usual play style is.

[Wall-E]

Since I see my name popping up, what posts did you find scummy?

[Wall-E]

Unvote

I'll find a new lead before I vote again.

@Surye: Nice omgus.

[Wall-E]

I submit that you're scum looking for an excuse to dirty the reputation of one of your attackers.

[Wall-E]

It is what it is.

[Wall-E]

I think Xtoxm's posts are scummy because of the posts posted here but I'm willing to believe the not-lurking is a town tell for Xtoxm.

"I think Xtoxm is scum, but if others tell me his meta for this game = town I will go along with it."

I think it makes sense in a written-by-a-schitzophrenic sorta way.

[Wall-E]

It makes sense grammatically, I mean. I'm wondering why empking trusts the consensual town meta-read over his own instincts... but maybe he's unconfident.

[Wall-E]

Unvote

We've gone full circle on Xtoxm, my vote did what I needed it to, we had a full investigation of a suspicion. But by itself, the whole ambiguity of commitment statements is not really enough to keep pushing this, I don't see it necessarily being scumfinding.

My vote was to pressure an infrequent poster. I would not, at the time, have advocated a lynch, though obviously saying that would have degenerated the usefulness of the vote. Later, Xtoxm's responses waxed scummy, so I pressed the attack.

[Wall-E]

Unvote, Vote: Surye

I've already stated why, and right now Surye is my favorite pick for scum.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (4): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto, Wall-E
Cream147 (3): Empking, BlakAdder, armlx
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba

Not voting (13): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Alabaska J, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, al4xz, Surye, Xtoxm

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

I stated the reason for my vote when I first voted you. At the time, you had never attacked me (to my knowledge). It seems you're the one who needs to look up a definition.

[Wall-E]

I see what the problem here is. I'm not being clear.

When I first voted for you in this game (ever) I stated why I was doing so. You're still my favorite pick for those reasons. You might have to go back a few dozen pages to find it, but the reasons are there.

Sorry for being unclear, it was unintentional.

[Wall-E]

Yeah, I'm a frequent poster. It's not a scum or town tell on me. I can see how it might be for inexperienced players, so no fault, no foul.

I can quote my case on Surye, though I'd have preferred to force everyone to search for it on the offchance they'd notice something new in the thread and dig some dirt up on someone.

Here's the post:

We should really be examining who was on the Slicey wagon near the beginning and middle, but who left near the end.

Meaning that YOU are going to hop right on that, I'm too jaded to assume.

I'll take a whack at it.

Slepz started it off with a random vote on page 2. (random)

Next was me on page 3, for unvoting, the first not-random vote of the game, I believe. (unvoting)

On page 14, Shanba makes three on the wagon.

Surye attacks/adds fuel to the fire on Slicey on this page also because of the discussion of Shanba's vote and my vote.

Armlx jumps on on page 15 to "get this moving."

Jebus
Armlx
Surye - all three on page 16.

Blackadder joins on page 17.

At this point I noticed that farside 22 apparently jumped onboard at some point, but damned if I'm going all the way back to see where precisely right this second. It's possible that he misspelled "slicey" when he voted, as I'm searching the thread via ctrl+f.

Armlx and I both hop off and on again for some reason. I assume it was to prevent a lynch while a question was answered, as I'm prone to do that, but didn't stop to check.

Jebus unvotes. Slicey is at L-2 afterwards.

Restfermata puts up the final vote just before Slicey would have hung anyway, hammering him.

So there it is. Slicey's bandwagon. I'm looking at Surye and Jebus, personally.

I later clarified that my vote on Surye was for adding fuel to the BW without voting (which I have done on occasion, but usually for ulterior motive). We had a short exchange in which he assured me that his motive was pro-town, but I still don't buy that bridge. I am roughly 55% sure Surye is scum based only on my semi-cursory readthrough of Slicey's wagon. I admitted when I voted that the case was weak at best, but stuck to it because it was my best lead at the time.

[Wall-E]

goddamnit

don't pick on me

i'm old and easily misled, especially by my own past rambling posts

I FULLY RETRACT MY STATEMENTS OF SURYE'S SCUMMYNESS, AND AFTER CAREFULLY READING HIS POSTS IN ISOLATION, I HAVE TO SAY HE'S VERY PRO-TOWN IN THIS GAME

though i'm not dismissing the possibility that he's just good at playing mafia

now i have to find someone new to harass... i'll do it tomorrow when i have more free time... just wanted to bury this now before it bites me in the ass more

[Wall-E]

Elaborate on what?

I'm not trying to sound patronizing here. I just want to be careful about how I answer, given my mistake.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E; Are you serious? If yes, why didn't you unvote?

Because I was rushed by things in RL.

Unvote

Armlx: I can't remember what specifically or even generally it was. Something about the initial readthrough struck me as motivated, like he had an agenda other than hunting scum. I was probably misreading or biased at the time, and as I said when I voted, it was a weak vote.

[Wall-E]

I actually agree with the quote, Armlx. We DID lynch Slicey because nothing better was happening. The scum are playing things cool, so we've got to turn up the heat.

Vote: Armlx

For voting for Slicey.

[Wall-E]

That is the stupidest reason to vote for anyone ever.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Cream147 (4): Empking, BlakAdder, armlx, Surye
Surye (3): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
killa seven (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): Alabaska J
armlx (1): Wall-E
Wall-E (1): Jebus

Not voting (9): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Cream147, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, al4xz

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

What's up armlx? You're usually more sensible than this.

[Wall-E]

OH SNAP SON

[Wall-E]

I want to see a PBPA from killa seven on his top suspect. Until he does that,

Unvote Vote: K7

[Wall-E]

What crap reason am I on the bandwagon for?

[Wall-E]

That's what I'm seeing, though I can see why he/she posted that. It makes a certain kind of sense. Still ignoring the point, however.

[Wall-E]

killa seven: Is that all you've got? I told you a small PBPA of your top scumspect would get my vote off you. Are you going to take that deal?

[Wall-E]

You guys are absolutely right, let's lynch all the lurkers.




(the indicates sarcasm)

The K7 lynch was pointless, anyone who's played with him knows that he almost never posts anything worthwhile.

I'm not too good with meta.

That's a scumslip right there. He just admits to knowing i'm town, because if I was scum then the K7 lynch was a massive sucess.

Vote: Xtoxm

That's insipid.

[Wall-E]

It's insipid because:

You're assuming that Player A is scummy for assuming you're town. It's a safe bet that any one random player is town. It's therefore not scummy to assume you're town and regret the lynch. Now, if the person you accused had a big fat case against you, I might agree.

[Wall-E]

It's insipid because:

You're claiming that Player A is scummy for assuming you're town.

It's a safe bet that any one random player is town.

It's therefore not scummy to assume you yourself are town and therefore must regret the lynch.

Now, if the person you accused had a big fat case against you, I might agree.

That's how that should have read.

[Wall-E]

Personally, I don't like the Xtomx attack. Xtomx usually plays like a fucked up kid, so I don't see anything TOO suspicious about this. However, the fact that Kuribo is pushing it so hard intrigues me...as does the fact that Xtomx actually resorted to LOGIC this time, even though it was epic phail logic. Interesting.

I'm not "pushing" anything, I'm defending myself from an argument worthy of Corky from Life Goes On.

I'm afraid you're showing your age, my dear.

Let's face facts and move on from wah wah the doc died. I admit I saw his claim before he was lynched, but figured we needed the information. His claim should have been more heartfelt.

[Wall-E]

Let's face facts and move on from wah wah the doc died. I admit I saw his claim before he was lynched, but figured we needed the information. His claim should have been more heartfelt.

Uh...

Hi.

Sometimes I get really confused, plus I am an idiot.

I'm one of those who prefers to have his vote on someone to keep the pressure up, so

Unvote - Vote: Riceballtail

. I disagree with your nay-saying of the wagon. I think it's too easy in retrospect to say such a thing as post 1135, and it looks like you're trying to establish a pro-town persona.

[Wall-E]

Hmm. I think Wall-E remembered that which I listed above, and then combining it with what he knows now (that K7 was a doc), and figured he claimed doc.

This. Apologies, I'm distracted by school.

It's irrelevant, but why is what I said a potential scumslip?

[Wall-E]

Hmm. I think Wall-E remembered that which I listed above, and then combining it with what he knows now (that K7 was a doc), and figured he claimed doc.

This. Apologies, I'm distracted by school.

It's irrelevant, but why is what I said a potential scumslip?

Wait, what? I want to be clear. Xtoxm softclaiming in day 2 made you think K7 claimed doc at the end of day 1?

It may even have been cross-game confusion. I apologize again.

[Wall-E]

Hmm. I think Wall-E remembered that which I listed above [Xtomx claiming to be a powerrole], and then combining it with what he[Wall-E] knows now (that K7 was a doc [he confuses Xtomx with K7]), and figured he[K7] claimed doc.

Exactly right.

[Wall-E]

I know. What can I say? kuribo and I must have the same twisted brain structures.

[Wall-E]

Er, whomever I quoted. Thanks.

I don't have much else to say other than "Sorry" and "I'm very active when I catch up with the game more. Give me a chance?"

[Wall-E]

Well I really can't answer that. I was being a sheep. I apologize to everyone again. College is a drag some days.

To be honest, I haven't really delved into this game's content in a few of my own posts. I didn't want to get prodded.

I'll be more studious in the future.

[Wall-E]

I caught up with the thread after the lynch. The previous time I'd voted, it was before the lynch, and when I read through I caught that my vote helped lynch him/her. I then finished reading and caught the doc claim. When I updated, I smashed those two ideas together and came out with stupid.

[Wall-E]

I had a reason. I am trying to explain it.

You guys are right about one thing: I essentially thought I'd lynched the doc, and while I felt bad, I figured you guys had a good reason for doing it, and so I didn't say "Well why the hell did you guys do that?!" when I posted. Instead I let it slide and figured I'd catch up at another time.

I will continue to answer questions about this.

[Wall-E]

Okay, screw this. My scumdar just overloaded. I'm going to insist that we either lynch Wall-E or Al4xz today.
We get it. You thought we had purposefully lynched the doc. You still have not explained where you saw his doc claim beforehand (except for the obviously slapped-together excuse involving xtoxm's soft claim). Al4xz has not explained why he defended you, and you have not explained why you simply quoted him and let it go.

Uh... cabbage?

Mod edit
Votecount:
Wall-E (5): Alabaska J, Muerrto, Surye, BlakAdder, al4xz
Surye (2): springlullaby, Riceballtail
al4xz (2): kuribo, armlx
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
kuribo (1): Xtoxm
Jebus (1): farside22
Riceballtail (1): Wall-E

Not voting (6): Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Cream147

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

...ok.

Why are you defending me, person who is defending me? I'm curious now as well.

[Wall-E]

So at the end of that post you said I feel town to you, but you're lynching me anyway, and now you're looking suspiciously at the guy attacking me.

I think your reaction gave me whiplash.

[Wall-E]

What did I do in that game that reminds you of this one?

[Wall-E]

You guys, I'm town. Honest. I have no idea what anybody is saying right now, but it sounds like you're all secretly agreeing that SOMEDAMNBODY is scum, and I'd like to be let in on the secret.

[Wall-E]

What are the major points against al4xz, aside from defending me, semi-flip flopping and unvoting when pressured?

That is an honest question.

[Wall-E]

Can you please define the "dichotomy" you disbelieve, springlullaby?

[Wall-E]

I helped catch icemanE in that game, but died all lamely.

I just reread that entire game.

That was a fun one, I must admit.

[Wall-E]

In simple terms, what are the correlations you're drawing between icemanE's play there and here?

[Wall-E]

Also, not being a retard, I wouldn't cheer for something evil out of calculation, only dumbness.

[Wall-E]

I'm going to trust armlx's meta and

Vote: al4xz

until I read through again.

kuribo, you can try to get me hanged for being lazy, but school just got easy again, and I'm about to go into another one of my active phases, so you would be lynching an active player. (shrug, do what you gotta do)

[Wall-E]

"...if you were paying attention, you'd know that i'm voting al4xz"

Your ad hominem is noted.

[Wall-E]

I think the problem kuribo is having is this:

Why would ANY player in ANY game EVER say: "Let's lynch the doc for information."?

The answer is "Nobody".

Not even scum.

I'm just that a w e s o m e.

[Wall-E]

unvote, vote Muerto

in my experience with him as scum he tries to push things too hard.

Can anyone verify this?


What follows is cough medicine induced rambling, so ignore it unless you're morbidly curious about my poor sick brain:

It's weird how people defending me are setting off more scum alarms in my head than those attacking me. I've never run in to this phenomenon before. Usually I like to be defended, but this time feels different. I've decided that it's due to the unexpected magnitude of the impact of my careless words... I'm seeing stronger reactions than I've yet seen from people over my attempt at lurking. I rather like the reactions... polarization is good for figuring out who's scum. I think if I had it all to do over again, I'd have done it again just to get the information.

I had to google Chris Hanson. That's almost funny... except I was raped by a child. That's right. I'm a victim of reverse child molestation, and I take offence to Chris Hanson and everything he stands for. I and others like me know who the real victims are; the adults. Child predators feed on men like me. They find us on the internet, tell us we're pretty, then jam a GI Joe right in our pooters and leave us to deal with our shame.

Gary Coleman raped me, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say so. I won't be a nameless victim any more.

If you or someone you know has been raped by a four to seven year old, an old lady, a midget or a quadrapalegic, call the Feeble Victims Hotline at 444-4444. Operators are standing by.

Mmm, dextromethorphan HBr!

[Wall-E]

Just so everyone knows, I would never do that for reals.

[Wall-E]

Yeah, I didn't give it much thought. I said to myself, I said, "Self, it appears we've lynched the doc for information. Let's post so we don't die while working on this portfolio final worth half our grade for the term."

See, I didn't give it ANY thought, I was just posting a "hm" post.

I'll talk about this as long as people want me to.

[Wall-E]

Well, on the plus side, I'm not going to get NKed any time soon.

[Wall-E]

You're claiming an appeal to emotion is without value, but I've seen it win games, both as town and scum. I submit that your disregard for an entire toolset of argument is detrimental to your own game.

[Wall-E]

I've been swayed by it before. And you can't discount the subtle psychological impact.

I'm a bit of a sophilist at heart, so you can safely ignore me.

We need a new direction, I think. I'd love to provide one, but I'm too high on the FBI's most wanted atm for any suggestion I make to have value (I suspect).

[Wall-E]

Hi guys.

It's me, Wall-E.

We need to talk.

I know I've been a scummy, lurky, non-contributing turd in this game so far. The town as rightly cast doubt on me for it. I deserved it.

But.

After some careful consideration of al4xz's posts, I've made a decision.

I am officially denouncing the al4xz lynch. I think you're up the wrong tree on this one.

As I am convinced there are scum on his wagon, I'm asking everyone to give their strongest reason for voting al4xz before we lynch him.

Unvote.

I don't think this is asking too much. In fact, I think it would be downright sensible of us, given how close al4xz is to lynch and the time we have to deadline.

Thoughts?

[Wall-E]

So you disagree that it's a good idea to be cautious? Please restate why you are on this wagon.

[Wall-E]

If we were both scum, wouldn't most people be more likely to bus at this stage? Please restate your case on al4xz, BlackAdder.

Mod edit
Votecount:
al4xz (6): kuribo, armlx, BlakAdder, RestFermata, Riceballtail, Surye
Wall-E (2): Muerrto, al4xz
Surye (1): springlullaby
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
kuribo (1): Xtoxm
Jebus (1): farside22
Muerrto (1): Alabaska J

Not voting (6): Azuma, Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Cream147, Wall-E

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

I have some things to say.

First, it's newb town tell to get defensive, overreactive and cussy. It's newb scum tell to post more like "whatever, meh, you guys are lynching a townie."

So I get nothing but town reads off al4xz.

Now. This whole town is on a bad track. al4xz and I are not scumbuddies. But. I can see this mob is in a kind of self-fueled avalanche against al4xz. If I help you all lynch him, and he flips town like I'm pretty sure he will, what will be said of me? I'm asking because the only way I'll help lynch him is if it will get me out of the limelight.

[Wall-E]

Uh...Wall-E. The only way you'll help kill me is if it saves you? That sounds extremely scummy. EXTREMELY SCUMMY.

Given that I think you're town, I won't try to lynch you unless it breaks the town's chain of suspicion and prevents another mislynch if you flip town and everyone goes "AHA! SO WALL IS SCUM!"

You're saying it would be better for me to lie and say you're scum? Or maybe you're saying it would be better to pass up the opportunity to gain some small amount of good from your seemingly inevitable lynch? I just can't find another way to look at this situation. Maybe you can offer something, since you seem to think I'm not following the best course.

[Wall-E]

So we're all clear, I'm supposed to be scum for saying arguably the stupidest thing ever in a mafia game, right? Not because of a reasoned, A follows B case, but for one single incident that nobody is likely to do, especially scum? It's some kind of scumslip to say:

Personally, I don't like the Xtomx attack. Xtomx usually plays like a fucked up kid, so I don't see anything TOO suspicious about this. However, the fact that Kuribo is pushing it so hard intrigues me...as does the fact that Xtomx actually resorted to LOGIC this time, even though it was epic phail logic. Interesting.

I'm not "pushing" anything, I'm defending myself from an argument worthy of Corky from Life Goes On.

I'm afraid you're showing your age, my dear.

Let's face facts and move on from wah wah the doc died. I admit I saw his claim before he was lynched, but figured we needed the information. His claim should have been more heartfelt.

[Wall-E]

Can you tell me a way a townie would've made it?

Can YOU tell me how SCUM would have?

[Wall-E]

Sure. A mistake. I already said that. You knew K7 was town before he was lynched but you didn't know he was a doctor. You had no problem lynching him since he was town and when he turned up doctor you obviously had no problem with that either. Since you had no problem and you THOUGHT he'd claimed doctor before the lynch (Up to this point, I agree with you 100%) you posted your infamous 'boo hoo the doc is dead' post. (Ah, but why in the LIVING SCREAMING HELL would scum say that? See, the problem isn't that you're wrong, it's that you're right but wrong about my motive. I said that disregarding even my own logical compulsion to say the opposite because I had other things to do for a few days.)

While as TOWN your story is you didn't get back in time to do anything about the K7 lynch and your vote was on there (No.). You thought he'd claimed doctor however and yet WEREN'T upset on day 2 about a claimed doctor being lynched while you were busy with other things (No.). If I'd gone V/LA or lurking or whatever you wanna call it and came back and found my vote helped lynch a CLAIMED doctor who wasn't near lynch when I last left him AND hadn't claimed doctor yet I'd be going 'What the hell were you people thinking lynching a claimed doctor???' (That's how I would have reacted had I been considering the game. I wasn't thinking about the game AT ALL when I posted. I was delaying my participation with fluff.)

Well... I can't defend this anymore. I'll claim if I get to L-1, so nobody quick lynch me. See you all when I have something to say on ANY OTHER SUBJECT besides my goddamn stupid post.

BUT you said you SAW his claim as doctor. SO, did you see his claim BEFORE you went away and yet leave your vote on him anyway? (That's not possible, obviously, since he made no such claim. I believe I'd mixed up my own role in another game and his claim. If I get modkilled for saying that it's worth it, because I'm getting very frustrated. Not with any of you, with myself for the damn post) Or did you come back, see the claim, and keep your vote on him? (Yes.) Either way, you knew he was a doctor and left your vote on him without ever saying anything about disbelieving his claim AND you had no problem with enough of the rest of the town disbelieving to be able to lynch a CLAIMED doctor. (Given that I wasn't reading the thread, I assumed there was some earth-shatteringly important reason why you all lynched the doc.

I've already apologized for that, but I'll do so again now.

I'm sorry for playing poorly. For one single post, I let everything go, and it feels like a looming trainwreck I'm aware of but can't prevent.

I won't be making any more assumptions, to preserve the integrity of this game, preserve my own integrity, and to hopefully prevent a terrible loss as a result of my stupidity.)

I'll keep debating this for as long as people tolerate it.

[Wall-E]

EBWOP:

Well... I can't defend this anymore. I'll claim if I get to L-1, so nobody quick lynch me. See you all when I have something to say on ANY OTHER SUBJECT besides my goddamn stupid post.

[Wall-E]

Ah, but why in the LIVING SCREAMING HELL would scum say that?

A mistake. I already said that.

I believe I'd mixed up my own role in another game and his claim.

Wait. You mixed up YOUR role from another game with HIS role from this game? (That's what I said. Stop pretending you don't know what a Freudian slip is. You seem more intelligent than that.) I mean, I've mixed up MY role from one game with MY role from another game but how did you mix up YOUR role from another game with HIS role from this game? (I have no honest idea, but upon careful review of all seven games I'm in (I'm actually in ten, but three are on different sites, and none of them currently involve a doc claim.), the only recent reference to a doctor is my own role in one of them. It's the only real conclusion I've come to so far.)

Also, I thought you said it was because of Xtomx's claim? Didn't you say you agreed with Al4xz that you mixed Xtomx's claim with K7's? Where did your own role from another game come in? (I was still trying to sort the whole mess out when I posted... well, everything I've posted. I still haven't completely sorted it out. I'm trying my hardest to make it right, up to reading other threads for clues as to what the hell I was talking about in the post in question.)

See, this is why I like the interrogation technique.

It's kind of like a courtroom where you gave 2 different stories and got caught doing it. All we need now is the jury's verdict. (Bolding mine. Now you're pretending you've been interrogating me, but you'd dropped this issue before I yanked it back into the arena for another bout of fighting. I'm the one who keeps solidly throwing myself at the issue of my so-called scumslip. Thanks for playing, try again next time.)

I may claim to prevent total derailment over a nonissue pending a PM from the mod. In the meantime, let's keep talking about this.

[Wall-E]

False choice, muerrto.

Prove it's scummy.

[Wall-E]

IDK about you, Muerrto, but my inbox does have a maximum size limit. So does my savebox. A year *is* a long time.

Is there truth to the meta? Anyone else?

[Wall-E]

Oh, we can check our old posts. That's convenient.

Well, Ala? What say you?

[Wall-E]

VOTE:Wall-E
HoS:Al4ex

Mod: vote not counted, unvote first

Clearly these two are scumbuddies, if he admits that there's a good case, but refuses to actually put the vote on this early.

UNVOTE; VOTE:al4xz

The case is very strong, and I still think Wall-E could be scum, as well as Surye, but I'm pretty sure al4xz is indeed scum.

More votes on the scum please.

Your case seems hollow, Riceballtail. Not because I disagree with your conclusion (though I do), but more in how quickly and with minimum input you put your vote on this bandwagon.

[Wall-E]

You mean before it died.

[Wall-E]

In the interest of picking up our pace, and with protest,

vote: al4xz

. L-3.

[Wall-E]

Four more days... we need a target... don't let the scum make a last-second push against someone and mislynch!

[Wall-E]

I'm voting for al4xz, kuribo.

[Wall-E]

L-3 HERE PEOPLE! LET'S DO THIS OR FIND A NEW TARGET! POSTY POSTY POST POST!

MOD: CAN WE GET SOME PRODS?

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Alabaska J

for empty promises!

[Wall-E]

BlackAdder SMAASH!

[Wall-E]

I agree that al4xz is pro-town. How about you find something he's said that's not, BA?

[Wall-E]

BlakAdder is like that old prospector-type in the neighborhood who scowls at all the neighborhood kids and assumes they're all on drugs.

[Wall-E]

Let's all kill Alabaska J.

[Wall-E]

kuribo, you are full of fail.

I don't either or, and that bull crap is going to have to be quoted or it didn't happen.

As for your attempts to shift, I think AJ is scum. Hell yes I'm trying to shift the wagon onto him. Are you reading my posts? I also think al4xz is town.

I hate you all.

[Wall-E]

Love Surye's plan.

Yay stuff is happening!

Unvote: Vote: Cream

[Wall-E]

I agree with Surye. Let them speak. We don't need to lynch immediately, so why not see what else can be discussed? Hell, we can waste this time with more setup conjecture if the town wants, though you'll pardon me if I sleep through most of that.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Cream147 (8): Xtoxm, springlullaby, Surye, armlx, farside22, kuribo, Wall-E, BlakAdder
Wall-E (2): Muerrto, al4xz
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
Jebus (1): Riceballtail
Muerrto (1): Alabaska J

Not voting (6): Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Cream147, RestFermata, ThAdmiral

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

Let's expect the worst WHILE we hope for the best, huh?

That seems like an odd offer, Xtoxm. Since you've brought it up, why would you roleclaim? Try to explain it without claiming, if possible.

Seems fishy for you to offer like that.

[Wall-E]

Funny how he mentions a mafia busdriver. Inside man?

[Wall-E]

...you were the last 1 to jump on! How is that significant?

[Wall-E]

You both jumped on almost at the same time right after each other...

Signifying what? Be more specific.

Remember to read things from a third person view.

Ok. You remember to wipe your butt after pooping, too.

[Wall-E]

Why not?

...

Sure! Why not full claim! And let's all clamp our hands in red-hot bear traps, too!

[Wall-E]

NO YOU ARE

Mod edit
Votecount:
Cream147 (9): Xtoxm, springlullaby, Surye, armlx, farside22, kuribo, Wall-E, BlakAdder, Muerrto
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
Jebus (1): Riceballtail
Muerrto (1): Alabaska J

Not voting (7): Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Cream147, RestFermata, ThAdmiral, al4xz

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[Wall-E]

I love a good bandwagon!

Vote: Xtoxm

Am i doin it rite

[Wall-E]

Hey, woah, what's all this sudden baseless conjecture on me? If we aren't lynching Xtoxm some people need to unvote. I'm keeping him in the danger zone because I don't like his refusal to claim.

[Wall-E]

Hey, woah, what's all this sudden baseless conjecture on me?

You're f'n kidding me, right?

This, THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is a perfect example of someone using language that tries to minimize the case against him.

My use of language ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS pushes an agenda. Are you claiming yours doesn't? You've basically just posted "Water's wet."

Maybe you could bring SOMETHING AT ALL up at this point. The opportunity is good to rehash some past stuff... why did I get a null post out of you instead of actual attacks?

Oh... because YOUR language is trying to MAXIMIZE the case against me.

That underlined bit was sarcasm. I clearly label my sarcasm to prevent confusion. You're welcome.

[Wall-E]

Hey, woah, what's all this sudden baseless conjecture on me?

You're f'n kidding me, right?

This, THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is a perfect example of someone using language that tries to minimize the case against him.

My use of language ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS pushes an agenda. Are you claiming yours doesn't? You've basically just posted "Water's wet."

Maybe you could bring SOMETHING AT ALL up at this point. The opportunity is good to rehash some past stuff... why did I get a null post out of you instead of actual attacks?

Oh... because YOUR language is trying to MAXIMIZE the case against me.

That underlined bit was sarcasm. I clearly label my sarcasm to prevent confusion. You're welcome.

Uh, wrong wrong wrong wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong.

That's unspecific. I said like nine things. Are they all wrong?

Of course we're going to rehash past stuff, you don't get a pass. Not now, not ever.

[quote="I, in the post you were responding to,]Maybe you could bring SOMETHING AT ALL up at this point.

The opportunity is good to rehash some past stuff

... why did I get a null post out of you instead of actual attacks?[/quote]

QED, you have the reading comprehension skills of a flapjack.

If you think it's baseless, show why it's baseless. Show why you and al4xz weren't buddying up, and then distancing from one another once it was pointed out.

The claimed cop? Uh... sure. I was buddying with the claimed cop. (sarcasm again)

Why are you saying this? Maybe I'm missing your point. Could you be more specific?

Your entire post was... emotionally charged, far-reaching crap. I get the feeling you're desperate to save Xtoxm. Am I wrong?

[Wall-E]

Oh, al4xz, not Armlx.

I have played a straight-up game here. If I agreed with someone, defended someone, attacked someone or backed off of someone it was, I assure you, intentional. Draw whatever conclusions you feel are appropriate. If you come up with a specific question, I'll answer, but your generalized accusation, asking me to defend against your imagining, that's impossibly burden-of-proof shifting of you, kuribo.

[Wall-E]

Ah-thank you. *smile - kiss a baby*

[Wall-E]

those who are voting for me: please list your reasons and give me a chance to defend if you're town

[Wall-E]

well since this game seems a bit inactive atm...

i'm going to claim to prevent extra time wasted discussing my alignment

i'm a town power role

[Wall-E]

ok good

[Wall-E]

vote: xtoxm

not sure if I'm at L-1 yet or not, but don't lynch me before giving me a chance to claim

[Wall-E]

Yes.

Flipping out.

[Wall-E]

no

[Wall-E]

it's not unhelpful to the town for me to fish for scum by waiting for L1, pinhead

Mod edit
Votecount:
Xtoxm (5): Surye, BlakAdder, Jebus, farside22, Wall-E
Wall-E (4): kuribo, Riceballtail, armlx, ThAdmiral
farside22 (1): Xtoxm

Not voting (5): Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, RestFermata, springlullaby

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.