Mini 142: Guitarists Mafia- Game Over

[Dourgrim]

Tick has a whole 15 posts to his name. He is just a misguided newbie. Meanwhile, Dourgrim is evil.

I am not... I'm just misunderstood.

vote: IS

because it's what ALL the cool kids are doing nowadays!

(and it's an OMGUS besides!)

[Dourgrim]

Wow, now I get a vote with absolutely no explanation... wanna bother explaining that?

FoS: Assasin

[Dourgrim]

Where is this whole "Dourgrim is evil" thing coming from? From IS, I'm sure it's just his twisted (and admittedly funny) method of justifying a random vote, but Assasin has me baffled...

unvote: IS

vote: Assasin

[Dourgrim]

It's both a blessing and a curse: when IS is in a game, he quite often talks out his arse about a lot of things... but you can't just assume he's being full of it, because sometimes he's telling the truth (although not this time). It's a classic "boy that cried wolf" situation... the good news is, IS is so damn funny most of the time that it's hard to get mad about it.

Obviously no one is going to simply take my word for it with regards to my innocence, but it does irritate me a bit that everyone's putting so much stock into the "Dourgrim is evil" thing (especially since no Cop would ever come out on Day One... he hasn't verified his sanity yet!). And, since it seems Assasin's vote was just a weird newbie mistake (no worries, we've all made 'em!), I'm going back to my previous vote.

unvote: Assasin

vote: IS

[Dourgrim]

Bloody hell, this (triple?!) posting problem is getting bad.

MOD: mind deleting two of those for me?

[Dourgrim]

Maverick: you can't give me a "break" with regard to random bandwagons just because I'm an experienced player... as you astutely pointed out, I could be scum, which would (theoretically, at least) give me a better chance of misleading you all via pretty words and lots of semantics. I'm not, of course, but that's the reasoning behind why Day One bandwagons are supposed to be random... at least by IS's way of thinking.

I don't agree with the practice as a hard-and-fast rule, though. I think a random bandwagon is fine, but not a random

lynch

, which is what IS seems to be pushing for. That's why my vote is still on him at the moment... bandwagonning someone for information is fine, pressing for a lynch based on nothing is not.

Having said all of that, I'll be happy to give the name of my role if you folks think it necessary...

[Dourgrim]

OK, why is Dourgrim offering to claim his role name when only 2 people are voting for him?

Because the point of the random Day One bandwagon theory is to obtain information for the Town... and, since I'm pro-Town, I'm willing to give said information if everyone thinks it'll be beneficial. You will note that I did

not

offer to role

claim

, but rather just to give the name of my role... that's because I believe a full claim would be a bad idea at this point from anybody.

Just trying to be helpful... but hey, if you don't want me to say anything, I'll happily be quiet.

[Dourgrim]

And now we go almost an entire day without a single post... not a good sign. Perhaps our Esteemed Mod should set a deadline?

[Dourgrim]

He seems a little

too

unconcerned about being bandwagoned. And this seems better to me than stalling the game and getting a deadline.

This is inconsistent with your questioning of why I was willing to give my role name with only two votes on me, don't you think? I'm

very

worried about being lynched (because I hate being lynched for little reason), which is why I offered to give a role name to appease people rather than do a full roleclaim.

Do you all want a roleclaim, or do you just want to lynch me without worrying about it?

unvote: IS

vote: Talitha

because of the inconsistency I referred to above.

[Dourgrim]

Your offer to give a name after only 2 votes was odd. So was your assertion that a random bandwagon on you was quite justified. I'm not sure how that adds up to me being inconsistent.

What makes offering a role name odd after two votes? I did specifically say that I would only give the name if/when

the Town

decided it would be prudent. Now, had I actually

given

the name so quickly, I could understand your point... but I didn't.

And I most certainly did

not

"assert" that a random bandwagon on me was "quite justified." I merely pointed out the flaw in Maverick's theory as to why I might be a poor lynch choice... and you'd think that me pointing out something like that would be construed as a

good

thing... sheesh. Maybe I should just start being obtuse and difficult rather than trying to be logical and helpful, eh?

With regards to roleclaiming, I'm not sure how you giving us a guitarist name is going to help much. We don't have any information as to scum roles yet. If you were town, I'd expect that you would want to keep that kind of info to yourself for as long as possible, though..

... which, again, I have. You seem to be pointedly ignoring the fact that I did

not

give any information, but merely offered to give it if

the Town

thought it was a good idea. How convenient for you.

[Dourgrim]

I'm back after a VERY long weekend... miss me?

And what's the difference between offering and actually giving the info if we'd asked for it? Your intent is the same in both cases.

Again, incorrect. My intent was to see if the Town wanted my role name, not necessarily to give it. I find it curious that you now seem to have a deep understanding of my intentions, especially when you considered my offer "odd." Did I miss something here?

I'm now quite convinced my vote is well-placed. I would, however, request a new votecount at this point (even though there's one not so far up).

Also,

BIG FoS: justinl

for the "whatever" vote before. This is unacceptable in a game of Mafia IMO. If you're not going to discuss and debate a position, don't take the position in the first place. This looks to me like bandwagonning without purpose, which is (in my mind, at least) a typical scum move.

[Dourgrim]

Dour: Are you saying you wouldn't necessarily have given your role name, even if we had taken you up on your offer?

No, I'm saying I think it's interesting that you believe you know precisely what I mean when I said that, but in the same breath labeled it "odd." Almost definitionally, if something is "odd" to someone, that person does not understand it... hence my attack and statement of suspicious contradiction.

Face it, Tally: you're trying to push the lynch over the edge with dodgy semantics, but the fact is you've changed your stance on this at least three times. And now you're trying to make it sound like you've been saying the same thing all along when, in fact, you haven't.

[Dourgrim]

Besides, Dourgrim is also doing a poor job of defending himself.

I always do, IS... it's probably my biggest weakness in Mafia.

[Dourgrim]

I assume then, that you have first hand experience of Dourgrim's mafia style? How many games have you played with him?

OK, this seriously irritates me. Tally, you know that I'm quite fond of you, but

you

haven't played in enough games with me to "have first hand experience of" my "mafia style" in any real quantifiable sense, so don't start acting like you know my style of play sooo much better than anyone else possibly could. Matter of fact, Talitha, why don't

you

give the name of a game you and I played in that points to my "mafia style" and clearly shows how odd my behavior in this game has been, hmm? As most anyone who

has

played in more than one or two games can tell you, my style tends to vary depending on the other players in the game. When treated poorly by other players, for example, I tend to become hostile and aggressive...

All this amounts to is an attack on MoS by trying to use my length of membership to the site as "evidence", and that's just patently ridiculous. Either that, or it's a desperate attempt to deflect what seems (to me, at least) to be attention finally focusing on the proper place... Talitha.

[Dourgrim]

I'll thank you to not butt in when I'm asking someone a question, Dour.

I am actually interested in people's answers, unlike Dour who just wants to go on a rant.

Yes, yes, sorry, I completely forgot the Cardinal Rule of Mafia: no one should comment on Talitha (or anything she says or asks) until Talitha's gotten her answers...

... and certainly don't ask her to answer any questions directed at her until such time, either. Nice dodge, but it won't work.

[Dourgrim]

Hello, all. Haven't checked in for a couple of days... sorry.

Lurker hunting is all well and good, but once again I'll say it: I would much rather replace than lynch. I leave the actual decision up to His Modness, of course, but I'd rather we have a chance to replace those who do not participate than just blindly lynch them.

And, to be honest, I see no reason to change my vote either. Tally suddenly drops the "spat" she's been having with me in order to flush out lurkers? Something's not right here...

I'll give the entire thread another readthrough sometime this weekend and try to post again then.

[Dourgrim]

Sorry, I've been unexpectedly away from the boards for the weekend... I will respond tomorrow once I've read all the posts.

[Dourgrim]

yes he did caim, talitha (doctor)

Um, no I didn't... although I'm about to... but you get a

big FoS: justinl

for lying about it.

I am

Allan Holdsworth

, a

Townie

. I don't know how you folks want me to "defend myself" against a random bandwagon... as far as I can tell, the bandwagon has been based on absolutely nothing besides IS's random choice of me on Day One (and Talitha's subsequent rallying cries). Since that point, it seems I've been proclaimed "guilty until proven innocent", and there's not a whole lot I can do to defend against that on Day One. I'm a Townie, which means I can't try to "prove" my innocence via Night actions... all I can do is vote, and I think if you look at my voting record for today, you'll notice that I did not jump around very much. I voted for those who voted for me, primarily, but my vote has stayed on Talitha for most of the Day because of her doggedness about the situation and her assertions of my "play style" and othersuch absolute nonsense.

Oh, and speaking of Talitha: she asked before who was suggesting we blindly lynch someone (in reference to one of my earlier posts). That's a flat-out stupid question, to be honest: of course no one is... I was simply saying that I'd rather replace non-players than lynch them, but yet she tried to twist that statement into another accusation. It's getting rather old of you to be chasing after me quite this hard, Tally, and it's going to make you look

extremely

bad if I get lynched.

All I can say is, if you lynch me, remember who pushed so damn hard for this lynch and inspect those people more closely...

[Dourgrim]

We were all posting at once... it happens.

[Dourgrim]

But youre right Maverick, lets all loyally follow you and ignore everything that has happened so far.

... which, ironically enough, is precisely what

you've

been asking for the entire game so far, IS.

The facts are this: whether you and the rest of the Town think I'm the best lynch choice or not today (and I'm not here to debate that any further, one way or the other),

you

have been absolutely and utterly worthless to the Town today, IS. You haven't added a damn thing to any discussions, haven't proposed any ideas, or even said much of anything at all without couching it in so much poorly-written sarcasm as to make it unintelligible. Instead you've chosen someone (supposedly at random, but at times I wonder) to lynch, done a lot of "blah-blah-blah, I'm

IS

, follow my lead, I know how to play this game best, blah-blah-blah" crap, and in general done what you usually do: nothing.

Now

do you understand, at least a little, why I've supposedly done such a "poor job of defending" myself? Because

there's nothing to defend against

, from either you or Talitha. At least Tally made an attempt at analyzing my posts and looking for clues... you haven't even bothered taking time out of your busy sarcasm-laden schedule to do that.

unvote: Talitha

vote: IS

FoS: Talitha

[Dourgrim]

No, I certainly understand the fact that sometimes Townies need to die in order to provide information for the Town... and I'm OK with that. I just wanted to vent my spleen and point clearly and repetitively to the two people who I believe have been misrepresenting themselves to the Town, and I have done so.

As a Townie, I theoretically am less useful to the Town than the other roles the Town might have... but as a player, I contend that I'm significantly

more

valuable than others, because at least I base my suspicions and arguments on logic and common sense (as opposed to arrogance and "see, I told you so" arguments). If nothing else, this will have been a valuable Day One because I will have helped bring a lot of people into the spotlight; it will be difficult for anyone to successfully lurk after what's gone on, don't you think?

And, for the record, I had never heard of Allan Holdsworth either until I got my role PM... I then googled him and read through his website. He's been around for a

long

time... *shrug*

[Dourgrim]

IS, remember one thing: just because I believe you're being a git in

this

game doesn't mean you're not still one of my favorite people to have in games with me in general.

Now stop being a git and go lynch some real scum, would you please?

[Dourgrim]

Nope.