Mini 142: Guitarists Mafia- Game Over

[justinl]

good morning, finally!

random vote: King Enigma

[justinl]

maybe I missed something, but the last two posts are talking about who the "guitarist" names of the scum might be, but what does that matter since we don't know their names? Or does it just make for good conversation?

[justinl]

guys, i'd like to point out that assassin is just as new as tick (this is his first game).

[justinl]

whatever..

unvote vote dourgrim

[justinl]

IS's logic convinced me.. It makes good sense to bandwagon an experienced player which you apparently are on the first day.. I could understand you finding it unacceptable maybe on day two, but who are we kidding when we say we can catch scum day 1?

[justinl]

guys (MOS, tick, Flay, anyone else i forgot) , the "yeah whatever" vote was because I agreed with IS's reasoning about why we should lynch randomly on the first day... but I guess if it's going to cause that much trouble,

unvote: Dourgrim

but that justinl thing is too suspicious to pass up

the way you worded that makes you look very scummy...

[justinl]

Maverick, if you'd actually read my explanation, you would have seen what i meant by "logic"

[justinl]

Mr. Flay, the whole reasoning is that mafia is less likely to look scummy on day 1 because they have more info than everyone, and arent feeling around in the dark. Also is that an experienced player is much better at avoiding lynch even if they are mafia, so it's better to lynch an experienced player so in subsequent rounds if a newbie is playing mafia it will be easier to tell. (verbatim what IS said earlier)

This logic had convinced me, but apparently everyone else doesn't agree..

and specifically what made you look scummy was saying "too suspicious to pass up" like you would miss a great opportunity if you "passed it up" (opportunity to lynch town).

[justinl]

I swear

[justinl]

yes he did caim, talitha (doctor)

[justinl]

crap, right as you say this i realize i may have been thinking of another thread. I am in the process of looking through them. I remember someone saying "at 5 votes, it's time for a roleclaim".

wait a minute and i'll figure this out

[justinl]

Yeah, sorry. It was Someone else in Some other game (im not sure if i'm allowed to talk about it here)

[justinl]

Dourgrim, I retracted myself almost immediately.. it was an honest mistake. <3

[justinl]

I think I am voting justinl who I still find suspicious, due to lack of reasons to not find him suspicious.

wtf is that supposed to mean? do you have reasons to find Assasin, nonny, KingEnigma, Mastermindof sin or maverick "not suspicious"

And I can sympathise with dourgrim for having to defend "you are guilty, what do you say to that?!"

I feel a contradiction of the previous quote..

[justinl]

i guess that makes enough sense

[justinl]

since we're starting the day off with votes..

vote: Mr. Flay

[justinl]

JustinL, you got something to go with that vote, or are we back at Day One' with 10 players instead of 12 and random votes?

nothing solid, Mr. Flay.. something about you yesterday was rubbing me wrong and I regret not saying anything about it then

[justinl]

I wouldn't mind a retractable deadline to get things going

[justinl]

Sorry. I'm being accused of lurking in another game, too, so i'll be posting more from now on. I'll post more later today.

[justinl]

hi. Sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday.

first off i'll

unvote

because Mr. Flay has been one of the biggest contributors today, although I don't understand why 90% of what he's saying is after talitha.

I'm suspicious of IS but everyone just says it's his playing style..

Assassin is a suspect, but i'm not ready to lynch him.

---

I'm not sure what this means. Last night I got a message that said that "my memory of the night went blank" I think this could be something to start discussion, or if anyone has an idea of what role it was that did that, they can tell me plz

[justinl]

hi. Sorry I didn't get around to this yesterday.

first off i'll

unvote

because Mr. Flay has been one of the biggest contributors today, although I don't understand why 90% of what he's saying is after talitha.

I'm suspicious of IS but everyone just says it's his playing style..

Assassin is a suspect, but i'm not ready to lynch him.

---

I'm not sure what this means. Last night I got a message that said that "my memory of the night went blank" I think this could be something to start discussion, or if anyone has an idea of what role it was that did that, they can tell me plz

[justinl]

sorry i realized it looked like my signature afterwards. YEs it's part of the game. The thing about Assasin is in this other game I was in, we were *sure* he was scum because he "taunted" the town after taking a killshot... but he turned out to be pro-town.

[justinl]

Oh crap. Disregard what I said about Assasin, I was thinking of Adder.. now that I realize that he is pretty suspicious. . Sorry for the bad info

[justinl]

EVH?

[justinl]

does anyone feel like the reason this game si going so slow is because whenever we start discussing something IS creates a diversion?

[justinl]

what do you mean "the assasin diversion is scummy looking" - that assasin looks scummy or that IS looks scummy by creating it?

[justinl]

I'm not really big into guitars.. would soemone mind telling me how famous keith richards is?

[justinl]

Err, are we forgetting that the scum can be guitarists too?

[justinl]

k, so I'm coming out as the other mason. Tally actually thoguht she was going to be the one that was killed. As long as there are no counterclaims I should be confirmed innocent. She says that IS, maverick and nonny are who she thinks are the mafia. We're in a lynch or lose situation, so they need to be claiming right now.

[justinl]

you should probably not use your real name when claiming, unless asked to, because it gives mafia better chances

[justinl]

Mr Flay: It's best that only the top suspects are forced to give their names, that way more innocent people can "counterlaim"

[justinl]

IS actually said that you would probbaly try to claim cop, IS.. could someone counterclaim?

[justinl]

Tally actually said that you would probably try to claim cop, IS.. could someone counterclaim?

[justinl]

Ok. I still don't want to vote becaues I want to make sure everyone has read what goes on and has a chance to respond in such a touchy situation.

I'm much more inclined to believe maverick, because

1) I can't see Jimi hendrix being a bad guy.
2) IS handed us two townies, the least he could have done was investigated them before he tried to lynch them so he'd know his sanity faster.
3) IS has been acting suspicious the whole game
4) It seems like Mr. Flay believed me way too easily when what I said would get him off the hook.

Then again, maverick could be trying to butter me up to get me to vote his way more easily.

[justinl]

Right now we can't depend on having insane and sane cops, I am the cop. We can't lynch wrong today, so there is no chance for town to win unless we get a lucky lynch, if we don't go Mr. Flay.

what?

[justinl]

I've been thinking about this since yesterday. I didn't want to respond until i had time to think it over, because what IS had said really pissed me off.

IS's whole argument is that he was the first one to claim. If he's scum, he would also have to be able to finger the cop to create this kind of situation, but as a player of IS's caliber, and being scum, this isn't very hard. (fingering the cop is easier as scum because cops genearlly act scummy)

If you reread, maverick is by far more innocent. IS has already handed the town 2 townies. IS was even pushing for a fast lynch on the last day in a lynch or lose situation (which he says is always his strategy)

As far as maverick thinking he was the only one suspicious of tally, it's just an observational error, not scummy.

[justinl]

IS would have had to identify the cop and then *decide not to kill him*, as scum, for this scenario to work. Why would he leave a cop alive intentionally?

tally was a pretty good candidate too

And yes, of course other people voted for the people who were lynched, but IS is the one who picked them out and pressed for them to get lynched. It wasn't as obvious with Assassin, but it was still definately there.

[justinl]

vote: Mr. Flay

[justinl]

Unfortunately, I'm going to be gone for the weekend so I probably won't see this game wrap up. If you guys just do a re-read you'll see that IS is scum, and now in this round it comes to ligth that his partner is Mr. Flay.. We will be able to find the other one tonight. I don't think any persuading would make me change my vote, so it is where it is, although I'd rather vote for IS directly, this bandwagon is just as good.

[justinl]

Alright, I've been gone for the weekend and then just didn't feel like posting yesterday, so here goes.

First off, it's pretty obvious that Mr. Flay is working with IS. He's trying to be the voice of reason. It's kindof stupid how he's asking me questions while i'm voting for him like we are both neutral bystanders.

Additionally, in a lynch or lose, which we are at, once a townie has voted for an innocent, it is over becasuet he mafia can jump on the wagon and force a lynch. I am confirmed innocent since no one has counterclaimed my mason-ness. I have voted for Mr. Flay, quite a while ago, and since the scum hasn't jumped on the wagon to lynch him, it means he's guilty. I'd also like to note that i'm the

only

confirmed

innocent, so no one can use the same argument to get Maverick lynched.

So can we please lynch Mr. Flay now.. To reiiterate, IS's argument is purely rhetoric and nothing he says can be confirmed.

[justinl]

So if he's doing that just go ahead and vote for his scum friend.

[justinl]

Following my logic through means that Maverick is innocent, so therefore if Mastermind was also innocent and voted for Maverick, the game would also be over. This means that our three scum are IS, Mastermind, and Mr. Flay (big surprise that they're the ones who are trying to influence the vote so much).

To make sure none of the townies are confused, the reason that I am confirmed innocent is because no-one has counterclaimed mason with talitha (which I have claimed) . If someone decides to counterclaim (i.e. if mastermind counterclaims now), it will pit IS, Mr. Flay and Mastermind agaisnt Maverick and I. From there, it should be pretty easy to convince King Enigma and Nonny that Maverick and I are the ones who are telling the truth.

[justinl]

What you dolts dont realize is that the same arguement holds true when Maverick is the scum!

Stated more clearly, it doesn't matter whether maverick is scum or not in the argument.

Dont any of you find it suspicious at all that Maverick isnt countering my claim at all? All he is trying to do is offer you a sacrificial lamb instead? In all the games you have seen, isnt the normal reaction of a cop when he sees a fake cop claim to blow up and call for the hordes to kill the fake cop?

So he's supposed to make stuff up to make his argument sound better?

f you dont like me, than thats fine. But dont throw away a game that we still have a good chance at just because of some silly vendetta against me. Its not fair to the other townies.

Stop trying to create personal reasons in this game. My reasons are not personal and you seem to be trying to discredit my argument by making me angry so I will lash out.

[justinl]

So If no one has a logical reason why we shouldn't lynch Mr. Flay, could we please do it. We're just sitting here with our scum out in the open, basically proven to be scum..

I will lay out my argument once more, incase Nonny and King Enigma missed it.

1) I am confirmed innocent because no-one has counterclaimed my masonness with talitha
2) Maverick has claimed cop and says Mr. Flay is guilty.
3) This means that either Maverick is scum, or Mr. Flay is scum. (or both are scum, as IS has pointed out)
4) We are in a lynch or lose situation, and if we are not, then if we lynch wrong today (choosing from mav and flay) we have guaranteed scum tomorrow. -- But we assume we are in a lynch or lose
5) In a lynch or lose it only takes one innocent's vote on another innocent for the mafia to be able to jump on them and get a lynch.
6) I have voted for Mr. Flay and am innocent (confirmed).
7) Therefore Mr. Flay cannot be innocent because if he was, the mafia would have bandwagoned to kill him.

So let's kill Flay.

[justinl]

So If no one has a logical reason why we shouldn't lynch Mr. Flay, could we please do it. We're just sitting here with our scum out in the open, basically proven to be scum..

I will lay out my argument once more, incase Nonny and King Enigma missed it.

1) I am confirmed innocent because no-one has counterclaimed my masonness with talitha
2) Maverick has claimed cop and says Mr. Flay is guilty.
3) This means that either Maverick is scum, or Mr. Flay is scum. (or both are scum, as IS has pointed out)
4) We are in a lynch or lose situation, and if we are not, then if we lynch wrong today (choosing from mav and flay) we have guaranteed scum tomorrow. -- But we assume we are in a lynch or lose
5) In a lynch or lose it only takes one innocent's vote on another innocent for the mafia to be able to jump on them and get a lynch.
6) I have voted for Mr. Flay and am innocent (confirmed).
7) Therefore Mr. Flay cannot be innocent because if he was, the mafia would have bandwagoned to kill him.

So let's kill Flay.

[justinl]

So If no one has a logical reason why we shouldn't lynch Mr. Flay, could we please do it. We're just sitting here with our scum out in the open, basically proven to be scum..

I will lay out my argument once more, incase Nonny and King Enigma missed it.

1) I am confirmed innocent because no-one has counterclaimed my masonness with talitha
2) Maverick has claimed cop and says Mr. Flay is guilty.
3) This means that either Maverick is scum, or Mr. Flay is scum. (or both are scum, as IS has pointed out)
4) We are in a lynch or lose situation, and if we are not, then if we lynch wrong today (choosing from mav and flay) we have guaranteed scum tomorrow. -- But we assume we are in a lynch or lose
5) In a lynch or lose it only takes one innocent's vote on another innocent for the mafia to be able to jump on them and get a lynch.
6) I have voted for Mr. Flay and am innocent (confirmed).
7) Therefore Mr. Flay cannot be innocent because if he was, the mafia would have bandwagoned to kill him.

So let's kill Flay.

[justinl]

So If no one has a logical reason why we shouldn't lynch Mr. Flay, could we please do it. We're just sitting here with our scum out in the open, basically proven to be scum..

I will lay out my argument once more, incase Nonny and King Enigma missed it.

1) I am confirmed innocent because no-one has counterclaimed my masonness with talitha
2) Maverick has claimed cop and says Mr. Flay is guilty.
3) This means that either Maverick is scum, or Mr. Flay is scum. (or both are scum, as IS has pointed out)
4) We are in a lynch or lose situation, and if we are not, then if we lynch wrong today (choosing from mav and flay) we have guaranteed scum tomorrow. -- But we assume we are in a lynch or lose
5) In a lynch or lose it only takes one innocent's vote on another innocent for the mafia to be able to jump on them and get a lynch.
6) I have voted for Mr. Flay and am innocent (confirmed).
7) Therefore Mr. Flay cannot be innocent because if he was, the mafia would have bandwagoned to kill him.

So let's kill Flay.

[justinl]

god dammit. I knew that was going to happen. The forums were completely down and I ended up posting 4 times on accident.. I wasn't being an ass just because i wanted you to read it

[justinl]

Mr. Flay: It doestn fuckin matter if the mafia get caguht after this round, because they win!!! And I guess I'll give a name since everyone else important has already. i'm Duane Allman

[justinl]

I'm getting pretty frustrated, actually. For the past 2 days I have been trying to prove my point to nonny and King Enigma, while arguing with Mr. Flay, who I know is scum. Nonny and King Enigma, could you please speak up?

[justinl]

perhaps they don't want to just up and vote for him, in case you would catch then and unvote before they pushed the lynch through.

Which is why they have to be sneaky and say things like "I sure hope i'm right about this!!" (like you did tacking the 3rd vote on Maverick). Yes it causes suspicion if done without any talk, but there are ways to be sneaky about it. It can easily be done in the span of 3 days. PLUS, they knew I would be gone for the weekend and Maverick was not going to change his mind about lynching flay, so it should have been no problem at all.

And the whole vig theory, do you really think we have a roleblocker, masons, and a cop AND a vigilante with only 1 anti-town group? (nonny claimed doc too didnt she - not sure)

Also, if IS's theory about Mr. Flay and Maverick possibly being scum together is true, then the scum would need one more innocent vote before they could lynch their scum partner, unless Mr. Flay plans to vote for himself.

You're grasping at straws. If IS's theory about that is correct, then we should lynch Mr. Flay anyways.. duh

[justinl]

I really like how Maverick throws some junk out there, stirs the pot, has Justin yell like a rabid squirrel, then dissapears again until the tide is back towards everone realizing he is scum again.

And I really like how IS has absolutely no argument so he resorts to insulting me, and coming up with ridiculous situations so that he and mr flay and mastermind could still possibly innocent in a desperate attempt to not be lynched.

IS - I'd like to see you actually present an argument that shows mine is the "argument of a madman"

[justinl]

I really like how Maverick throws some junk out there, stirs the pot, has Justin yell like a rabid squirrel, then dissapears again until the tide is back towards everone realizing he is scum again.

And I really like how IS has absolutely no argument so he resorts to insulting me, and coming up with ridiculous situations so that he and mr flay and mastermind could still possibly innocent in a desperate attempt to not be lynched.

IS - I'd like to see you actually present an argument that shows mine is the "argument of a madman" instead of blow smoke out of your ass

[justinl]

excuse me?

[justinl]

I find it hilarious how we keep finding evidence that Maverick is lying

Could you back this up? Nonny, King Enigma -- please note that if he can't it's pretty safe to consider most of what he says bullshit

[justinl]

King Enigma: If we want to lynch right, we need all the town to vote on the right mafia. that means

you

.. if you've lost interest in the game you could ask to be replaced by someone, because we really need all of our players to be playing.

You say you don't have anything else to add. What about, what do you think about what I said about Mr. Flay. Does that make sense? would you be willing to vote for him becuase of that?

[justinl]

wow it's such a shock that the same three people (IS, flay and MOS) are so convinced of maverick's guilt and voting for him! tomorrow I intend to post a well thought out summary of what's gone on this day to try to convince the townies..

[justinl]

Alright, I guess i'm ready to state my point although it may not be as eloquent as I had hoped for..

There are two working theories right now.
1) Justin and Maverick and ??? are scum together
2) IS and Flay and Mastermind are scum together

let's look at them with a little bit of common sense.

first we'll look at the merits of the first case.
Justin is a Mason, this is known. Flay pointed out that I could be an evil mason. That is complete Bullshit, because it completely defeats the point of masons. Yes there have been evil masons,

in games with more than two masons

. Justin and Maverick need a partner, though. cross out nonny becaues she is as confirmed as you get doc, cross out IS because we need a real cop. We're left with Flay and KE. KE knows he's not scum, and I don't think nonny thinks KE is suspicious either. If Flay is the third partner, then we should lynch him.

second case)
IS, Flay's, and Mastermind's case hinges on the fact that I am an evil mason. If you can realize that I am not an evil mason (reason outlined above), then I have already shown why IS Flay and Mastermind are scum together.
But let's look at some other reasons.
Almost all of today has been Dialogue between IS, Flay, MOS, and me. They've been dicking around basically FOS'ing each other during this day, but none of them have gone after anyone else.

Justin continues to scream like madman.

IS - I'd like to see you actually present an argument that shows mine is the "argument of a madman"

I find it hilarious how we keep finding evidence that Maverick is lying, yet he still remains alive. Could you people please end my frustration and lynch the scum?

Could you back this up? Nonny, King Enigma -- please note that if he can't it's pretty safe to consider most of what he says bullshit

1) Tally - innocent
2) MoS - innocent
3) Maverick - SCUM

Wow, he is informative...

IS is basically going to call everyone names to make them feel bad about themselves if they don't vote the way he wants them to. It's unsportsmanlike but it is quite effective. If you ignore that and actually read the posts, scan for content and consider IS's record, it really is obvious he is scum. "No tells" my ass

[justinl]

Uh... Justin.. how can I go from claiming youre an evil mason to then not having any substance to my posts?!?

If I am not an evil mason, then you are scum. I explained why Mr. Flay had to be gulity, and so it was brought up that I may be an evil mason because that is the only way Mr. Flay could still be innocent.

Although what I do notice is that you magically, suddenly clear KE when he is Public Lurker #1 and not even listening to the real cop (IS) or the fake cop (Maverick).

I know who the scum is, everyone who is not scum is cleared.. logic is tough huh?

You also neglect the fact that Maverick has proverbially given up and is doing the last ditch desperate effort technique to fool whoever is left. I have remained steadfast with my investigation behind me.

Maverick is frustrated, and doesn't put so much weight on winning. On the other hand, winning is very important to you. It's that simple.

[justinl]

Maverick is back to using the same fake lines he did at the beginning.

does anyone else find this ironic? "I'm the cop!! i swear!"

[justinl]

You're conveniently ignoring the other ways I mentioned that Maverick could be scum without you being an evil mason.

so now you know Maverick's mind? If I didn't know better, I'd have thought you conversed last night...

1) Stop trying to play both sides of the die. It only serves to confuse. If you were acutally town you would be trying to find the truth, not using two opposing arguments to try to prove your point.

2) Once again, if I am not an evil mason then you are scum.

3) Yeah, I know Maverick's mind.. because I read the thread. I'll enlighten you with a brilliantly selected quote.

I'm at the point of not caring anymore because you guys are the most stubborn people I've ever played with.

I know it's hard, but if you read deep enough into it you can see where I got that Maverick is frustrated.

does everyone agree that MoS is scummy?

I am willing to lynch IS, Flay, or MOS

[justinl]

I don't think MR. Flay is playing both sides of the die

So trying to explain how I can be innocent when Maverick is scum, and then shamelessly hinting that I'm scum with Maverick is not playing both sides of the die?

since nearly all of the possibilities where I'm not scum involve Maverick as scum, that's where my vote is going[/quote[
That's a shocker, since you

are

scum

[justinl]

Is that my lynch?

Bah. At least the game's over...

I wonder how many times in the past that gambit has actually worked.

[justinl]

Here's what I think:
When KE said that He was going to stick with his vote on MOS, MOS realized that it would probably be safe to put another vote on Mr. Flay, so that he would look innocent when Flay got lynched. The thing is, he doesn't really want his scum partner to die, so he's going to unvote now that he doesn't look partnered up with flay anymore..

[justinl]

the cop(which would have to be Maverick for your theory to work) would then just investigate me anyways, so there wouldn't be any way to get out of that the next day.

The point is to confuse the non-cops, who are still not sure of who the real cop is..

You have yet to come up with any reasonable theories about why I would vote for my scum partner at this point.

so that he would look innocent when Flay got lynched.

So did you not read that part, or just hope i'd forget I'd said it?

[justinl]

Maverick let's vote for mastermind. Just checking to make sure that they were the 1st ones to put their votes down before I unvote?

[justinl]

unvote, vote: Mastermind

I just realized that the third partner is going to jump on the wagon, so we have to get 3 first..

[justinl]

yeah it's *so* scummy to try to get someone who is scummy lynched over someone who isn't scummy. God, IS. Your scumdar skills are unfathomable

[justinl]

fucking a, KE. UNvote.. We switched our vote over to Mastermind because It was useless sitting on Mastermind. The reason IS and Flay don't seem so buddy-buddy is because theyre TRYING not to... they _should_ be, since they should know each other are almost certainly innocent. The fact that they aren't are more scummy than us acting that way.

[justinl]

ugh, why did no one believe me?