FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Archer]

HEELLO

Hi

I have been looking forward to this game, and it is finally here

[Servant Archer]

What are your thoughts on being the master?

[Servant Archer]

What are your thoughts on being the master?

I guess I can answer first

I don't particularly like being town leader, and I also don't think that the extra charges for my noble phantasm will be all that beneficial for me, and would likely serve better on other players. While I am not strictly against it, I am not really gunning for it either.

Currently looking for someone to come ObvTown for me, so I can vote them lol

[Servant Archer]

What are your thoughts on being the master?

I guess I can answer first

I don't particularly like being town leader, and I also don't think that the extra charges for my noble phantasm will be all that beneficial for me, and would likely serve better on other players. While I am not strictly against it, I am not really gunning for it either.

Currently looking for someone to come ObvTown for me, so I can vote them lol

I did answer…?

You answer was not there when I started typing, and I just didn't bother with a pedit when I hit send, and saw you had responsed

[Servant Archer]

I looked back over the start of the last FGO game, and it looked like the day started with people fighting for the master spot, so I thought that was where we would be starting too - but apparently I was wrong lol

[Servant Archer]

I want to be the master. My strength is in the early game and I don't particularly like my noble phantasm.

Not liking you NP seems a bit like a reason to not make you the master, no?

Like, one of the things that getting the master does is charge your NP gauge

[Servant Archer]

I don't think hand Mastery to the Town Leader,

a Town Leader can lead without an IC card imo.

Then how do you think we should decide?

Based on 37, are you suggesting it be based on mech?

[Servant Archer]

Guys and girls and all other manner of fauna and flora.
When I said don't give information away, I meant it. This includes hinting at the strength of your abilities.

I don't think that we should be talking about how strong our abilities are over all - but, we each have 4 abilities, and we are only vaguely talking about our NP.

Like, me for example, I am not saying that my NP is weak or strong, but I don't think that is benefits much from being charged early. So I am fine letting mine fill naturally.

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: Saber

[Servant Archer]

Actually UNVOTE:

[Servant Archer]

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early.

You know how the power level of your NP compares to other peoples?

[Servant Archer]

I prefer getting a town master but removing a scum early and getting the information/interactions is also pretty helpful.

I mean, yeah. Hitting mafia is not the end of the game, but hitting town is definitely better.

So, its fine to have a "if we miss, its not the end of the world" attitude, but we should definitely be aiming for town

[Servant Archer]

Alter Ego - what are your thoughts on being the one with a master - you look like you are building up the most town reads so far

[Servant Archer]

Archer, are you thinking that because Saber may have TMI'd that he's a poor choice?

Not really tmi - because that is not something that the scum team would know that the town wouldn't. Neither side would really know how our power levels match up.

It is more that it looked like they were overselling

[Servant Archer]

I think I like the cop shot if we choose based on mech.

If we are choosing based on TRs tho, I am currently leaning Alter Ego

[Servant Archer]

Is overselling scummy or

Unsure. I think that it means that they really want it though.

What I thought was scummy was ignoring my question.

Saber seems to think that their ability would be about on par with Assassins, so if we are making a mech choice, I would rather Assassin over Saber.

[Servant Archer]

I also think that between Assassin and Saber's claims, I think we have mech choices, and people should probably avoid talking about their NP from her on.

Although, I am not entirely sold that a mech choice is better then a TR choice.

[Servant Archer]

Saber seems to think that their ability would be about on par with Assassins, so if we are making a mech choice, I would rather Assassin over Saber.

This isn't quite right. Each is situational. It's hard to compare the two was my point.

If yours is worse in some situations, and worse in others, and you cannot guarantee we will be in a situation where yours is better - then I'm gonna boil that down to them being on par with one another.

Alter Ego makes a decent point about the caginess tho

[Servant Archer]

My two TR's so far are Saber and Lancer. Berserker seems okay, but I may be reading in too much there.

After that, I can't really tell. Alter ego seems surface thoughtful. Bu they're taking pains to avoid being misunderstood.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

imo, that looks like beast is reaching for a reason to keep you out of their town reads

[Servant Archer]

I honestly find it questionable that someone who gained a guaranteed cop shot from their NP would out it openly without possible consideration of it being blocked as a result.

Also, if they don't get the the master, outing it puts a target on themselves before they will have their NP charged

[Servant Archer]

My two TR's so far are Saber and Lancer. Berserker seems okay, but I may be reading in too much there.

After that, I can't really tell. Alter ego seems surface thoughtful. Bu they're taking pains to avoid being misunderstood.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

imo, that looks like beast is reaching for a reason to keep you out of their town reads

That seems like a rather uncharitable interpretation of Beast's words.

Maybe, but when I read it, it looked like nothing reasons. "Surface thoughtful" and they are trying to "avoid being misunderstood" are the kinds of things that sound like reason to scum read someone, but are not things you really back up and they are things that are hard to engage with if you disagree.

It is like saying it is a gut read, in that way where you can't engage with it very much, without it looking like you are saying it is a gut read

[Servant Archer]

Not a big fan of Rider's iso atm lol.

You have anything to say other then just your vote?

[Servant Archer]

@Berserker - I was looking back over the game, and I am curious who were you referring to in post 50

[Servant Archer]

when you're scum, and you get accused of being scum, you can brush it off as a lucky guess or a reaction test without merit - you don't feel the pressure and you can just fire back a question etc.

when you're scum and you get accused of being scum with your scum-teammate, it puts more fear into you that the person accusing actually knows what they are doing and has a tendency to cause paralysis in reacting.

when you're town and you get accused of being scum with someone else, you tend to at least ask if the read is associative or specific on behavior.

I am not sure how much I buy this. Specifically the last line about how town would react - are people that worried about being in someone's scum reads, this early in the game, on a game day where are not even voting scum out anyways?

So - I just looked back at the earlier post, and realized that I was one of the people this was referring to lol

Personally, my reaction to being scum read on page two of the treads, was to think "well, there is plenty of time for them to change their mind" because --- it was page two of the first day, and we are not even voting scum -- AND I am not aiming to be elected today.

I had no reason to be worried about your scum read - It came so early, and I assumed your read on my would develop past your read on page two, before we were to the point where your read on me would ever matter - so I did not even comment on it

[Servant Archer]

Scum in this situation can promise everything. Once they win elections they are tree stumped anyway, no risk of being killed for lieing. It shouldn't be used as indication.

I agree, which is why I don't claim anything that I can't back up or is extravagant. Second, I don't want to be a miselimination for overpromising and under delivering.

I started to soften on the idea of you being the choice, based on the caginess -- but this feels off to me again :/

It does not feel totally consistent.

For starters "I don't claim anything that I can't back up or is extravagant" - when you already claimed "My NP is one of the strongest in the game" in post 51

And also, the second half does not make sense to me "I don't want to be a miselimination for overpromising and under delivering." In what scenario is this actually a worry? If you "over promise, and under deliver" do you mean that you think we might miselim you AFTER we make you an IC - just because your power does not pay off the way you promise? Or are you saying that if you tell us how great you would be as an IC, then if we don't make you an IC, we would then kill you for not living up to the promise? - Because that also does not make a lot of sense.

Either way, this seems like a non-issue worry to have - so I find it hard to look at it as a genuine worry coming from you

[Servant Archer]

Scum in this situation can promise everything. Once they win elections they are tree stumped anyway, no risk of being killed for lieing. It shouldn't be used as indication.

I agree, which is why I don't claim anything that I can't back up or is extravagant. Second, I don't want to be a miselimination for overpromising and under delivering.

I started to soften on the idea of you being the choice, based on the caginess -- but this feels off to me again :/

It does not feel totally consistent.

For starters "I don't claim anything that I can't back up or is extravagant" - when you already claimed "My NP is one of the strongest in the game" in post 51

And also, the second half does not make sense to me "I don't want to be a miselimination for overpromising and under delivering." In what scenario is this actually a worry? If you "over promise, and under deliver" do you mean that you think we might miselim you AFTER we make you an IC - just because your power does not pay off the way you promise? Or are you saying that if you tell us how great you would be as an IC, then if we don't make you an IC, we would then kill you for not living up to the promise? - Because that also does not make a lot of sense.

Either way, this seems like a non-issue worry to have - so I find it hard to look at it as a genuine worry coming from you

This caginess take is then inconsistent in the same way...

There is a difference between "I am trying to avoid revealing what my NP does, in case I am not chosen" - which is the caginess that lead me to soften my opinion on Saber once Ego pointed it out in post 111 --- and being worried about something that does not seem like an issue regardless of the outcome of today's vote.

[Servant Archer]

Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.

I'd like to move on.

I am not super comfortable making Saber the master.

I am currently leaning Berserker personally.

[Servant Archer]

If I’m remembering correctly Lancer also asked to not be master.

I currently have three (four with you) in favor of me, not including myself.

Pedit-
It could be premature, yes. Do you think the post about how we reacted to his scumread came from a scum mindset?

I don’t think I read that part of the thread very thoroughly and I probably won’t get the chance to until later.

We can discuss in full later, and maybe Archer will also join in.

Are you talking about Caster here? -- If so, I am leaning town for Caster. I disagree with their conclusion on both my alignment and Berserkers - But I think that the way they have approached it shows a town mindset. The fact that they apparently set a reaction test for the two of us, and then came back and analyzed it tells me they are actively trying to figure out our alignment.

---------------------

@Ruler, I would also like clarification on both of these

Spoiler:

@Ruler first you say archer is towny and then that if your main-guess is correct that this is actually their scum meta? That feels contradictory

@Ruler you also say that your read on Saber is neither pure nor corrupt but then down below you separate them out of your nullpile into the possibly corrupt pile. What differentiates Saber’s slot from the nullpile such that you say they’re possibly corrupt, given that you said you have no read on them either way?

[Servant Archer]

You disagree with their conclusion that you're scum?

Well, yeah lol

but I guess what I meant was that I disagreed specifically with the criteria they used to make draw their conclusion

when you're town and you get accused of being scum with someone else, you tend to at least ask if the read is associative or specific on behavior.

[Servant Archer]

You guess?

Well, yeah, lol

I don't think that town is more likely to react to a scum read on page 2 for some reason - regardless of whether caster listed 2 people in his scum reads.

Maybe I am just wrong on what the average town player would do, but I know that I was more focused on trying to start getting reads on other people, then to really care that they were scum reading me.

I know for a fact that it is wrong in this instance, and I am guessing that it is probably wrong in general

[Servant Archer]

So I think that there are 3 players who have actively said that they want it :: Berserker, Assassin, and Saber.

VOTE: Berserker

I am going to assume the mech between the three of them is a wash -- basically, if they were town, and had a bad NP, I imagine they would have backed out of the running - so from here, I think we should assume they are all equal mech wise. At this point I would rather none of the 3 of them give any more info on their NPs, and I don't think it serves town to keep that the focus of the decision

So ignoring the mech side at this point, I think berserker looks like they would be the best town leader.

A big plus for them, in my opinon, is that they do not even seem all that focused on getting the master. Yes they made it clear that they wanted it, but if you scroll through their iso, it is way more focused on interacting with other players and building reads.

Compared to the other two seem, whose isos are 75%+ just talking about why they should get the master slot.

Like, the two are claiming they would work well as town leader, but berserker is showing it already imo

[Servant Archer]

they're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice

Signature material right her, imo

They're also fairly agenda driven and they have a clearish trejectory but their reasoning is so weird that while I can see where they're going I don't really get why they're going there.
I mean, did you read where he said we should assume they're all equally good mech choices? Why in the world would you assume that in a game with roles that have extremely distinct abilities.

Deciding who should get the master is a 2 part problem: who gives us the greatest mechanical advantage, and who would serve best as town leader.

Clearly, they have different abilities, and one is probably mechanical better then the others - BUT, we would need a lot of details about each of their abilities to accurately figure that out - and I think that it going over the amount of detail would harm the town -- So, I think we should skip past that discussion, and therefore I am treating them as all equally good mech choices.

So, then I started focusing on the other half of the question: which would serve better as town leader

[Servant Archer]

So, I think we should skip past that discussion, and therefore I am treating them as all equally good mech choices.

Assassin has outright claimed what they can offer, in response Saber claimed their ability is at least as good, if not better, and following that Berserker continues to claim that they would be a good choice instead of backing down and choosing one of the other two.

To me, that indicates that if they are town, then they each think that their ability is at least on par with what Assassin has claim.
On the other hand, if any of them are scum, then they can claim any level of power level from their NP.

So at this point, for me at least, it has moved past the mech discussion, and onto getting reads for the slots and figuring out how good I think each would serve as town leader.

[Servant Archer]

Would you be ok with being the Day 1 elimination if Berserker is Mafia?

Uh, no? What kind of question is that lol

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: Saber

sold

Would you be ok with being the Day 1 elimination if Saber is Mafia?

[Servant Archer]

Well I have you and berserker as mafia together...

if the town ignores this and makes berserker master and you are one of the key drivers of this, wouldn't you expect me to hard-drive for your elimination on D1?

That is an entirely different question then...

Do I understand that you might scum read me on a Berserker scum flip? - Yeah

Am I so confident in my town read of Berserker, that I am willing to bet away a miselim for day 1 on it? - No

[Servant Archer]

are you scum-reading saber/me?

No. I think you are probably just town tbh -- But you and I did the same thing, so I reversed the question so you would see that it was a silly question to begin with.

You looked at the thread, stated that you think Saber is the best choice, and voted for them --- I assume, you would not agree to a town miselim day 1 if you were wrong.

I looked at the thread, stated that I think Berserker is the best choice, and voted for them --- I am hoping that you see now, that there is no reason why I would agree to a town miselim day 1 if I am wrong.


What answer were you even expecting when you asked me the question?

[Servant Archer]

To show some conviction in your town-read of Berserker?

Your vote is based on two things:

(1) You think Berserker is mechanically equivalent to Saber/Assassin, something that I don't think you've laid out good reasoning for.

and

(2) You think Berserker would be a good Town Leader because you believe they will work well with others.

You don't actually state why you believe Berserker is definitely town here.

I mean, they are in my town reads for a lot of the same reasons I think they would make a good town leader.

The way they have been interacting with other slots feels like they are trying to sort people, and as a plus, a lot of our reads are lining up, so it is easier for me to believe they are genuine reads without ulterior motive.

I also find think that it is more likely for him to be town over Saber or Assassin because they are not so focused on convincing people they should be the master choice based purely on mech. Mech reasons to be the Master choice are super easy to fake.

I liked that they pointed us in the direction of Cabd's post describing how he would suggest town choose a town leader - I trust cabd's thinking in general, so I think that it was pro town to try and get town to consider that angle. I personally had not read that before, and was glad to see it pointed out.

[Servant Archer]

Archer, do you have any thoughts on the convenience of the Miller claim in conjunction with Assassin? I was debating how scum would approach this, as I already laid out the postgame notes from the last game.

I’m not saying Assassin is scum either. I just wouldn’t be surprised if one of the main contenders did end up flipping red. Maybe some scum in the people arguing purely for a mechanical choice, and maybe one in the town leader side as well.

I am not entirely sure how to take the miller claim. I was hoping that Avenger would have more posts, so that I could judge the slot a bit outside of the claim, but there has not been much else from them yet

Although, I do find this claim suspicious

My NP goes through this. I am surprised that miller would be a thing in this setup.

Like, his role pm was worded in such a way that he is confident that his cop investigate would be accurate despite his target being a miller - but is also surprised to see a miller?

It also seems strange to have a miller and a "miller-proof" cop - unless we also have a non-miller proof cop, and I don't know how likely it is that Cabd would give us multiple cops

[Servant Archer]

However Archer is pushing to make you Master so he should be explaining his town-read of you.

I mean, they are in my town reads for a lot of the same reasons I think they would make a good town leader.

The way they have been interacting with other slots feels like they are trying to sort people, and as a plus, a lot of our reads are lining up, so it is easier for me to believe they are genuine reads without ulterior motive.

I also find think that it is more likely for him to be town over Saber or Assassin because they are not so focused on convincing people they should be the master choice based purely on mech. Mech reasons to be the Master choice are super easy to fake.

I liked that they pointed us in the direction of Cabd's post describing how he would suggest town choose a town leader - I trust cabd's thinking in general, so I think that it was pro town to try and get town to consider that angle. I personally had not read that before, and was glad to see it pointed out.

[Servant Archer]

Considering that a lot of these super abilities are probably ***** and that it would take 5 days/nights to charge, most of these abilities will probably not see usage without outside help.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

So you believe Assassin's claim, but you don't believe Avengers?

If that is the case, why would Assassin's ability apparently include wording to make it clear that their cop investigation sees through a miller?

I am not sure where I fall on believing neither/one/both at this point :/

[Servant Archer]

You say a lot of your reads are lining up with Berserker, however he's only expressed three townreads, one of which happens to be yourself. Neither of you have really expressed anything about scum-reads so it's somewhat hard for me to believe you are townreading him on read-sync on such a small number of TRs.

Well for starters, that is not the only reason I am townreading him. I am also town reading him for all of the reasons you apparently disagree with. You are welcome to disagree with my reasons, but that does not make them suddenly stop being my reasons --- so it is strange to see you boiling my read down to just this.

Also, my top reads atm are: Alter Ego, Berserker, Lancer -- then you
Berserkers stated town reads are : "Archer, Lancer, Egos all" "caster seems town."

Of the 3 people campainging for master, I am currently most suspicious of Assassin - something else I feel Berserker has commented on

And just in general, I find myself agreeing with most of berserkers posts

And yeah, that factored into my read, but it was also all of the other things I mentioned.

[Servant Archer]

First off I didn't like the way they presented Cabd's post in the postgame of the last FGO. It's designed to look helpful but really it's agenda-based since the ultimate conclusion was "You should pick me to be Master because I'm charismatic" I know he didn't say as much in the post but it's ultimately how it played out.

Did you read Cabd's post? Because one thing that stood out to me, is that he makes the argument that mastering the most charismatic person is the right play, even if it turns out to be scum. Because, if you focus on choosing the most charismatic person, you are either going to end up with a good town leader, or you are going to eliminate one of scums strongest member.

He also explains why the scum team would prefer a non-charasmatic player vote - because, then the town will either end up with a bad team leader, or if they manage to get a scum player voted, they are losing a weaker player while still gaining the full benefit.

Berserker has already swayed like 5~6 people into thinking he is a good choice for leader - and he is squarely in my town reads. So yeah, he is my top choice, either I am right, and we successfully give a townie who I think would do a good job as leader the master, OR I am wrong, and I am not going to start Day in scum's pocket.

Saying that Berserker is more likely than A/S because he is not as focused on Mech is just simply not true. There's no reason for a town player not to be intensely focussed on mech, especially if they truly believe their ability can be rather helpful if used early.

I never said that town would not care about mech. I said that mech is the easy path for scum.
So, i am not scum reading Saber/Assassin because they are interested in mech, but I am town reading berserker because he is not.

[Servant Archer]

I never said that town would not care about mech

.

I said that mech is the easy path for scum.
So, i am not scum reading Saber/Assassin because they are interested in mech, but I am town reading berserker because he is not.

Why is the lack of mech-interest AI for you?

It seems to me that it's easier for a scum to completely ignore the mechanical angle of their NP to get to be Master rather than actually faking enthusiasm in terms of their NP.

One of the first things I considered in this game was whether my NP is strong enough for me to charisma my way into getting Master'd. I read my NP and thought about it and it was fairly easy for me to make the decision that it's not strong enough for me to try to become Master'd.

You're saying it's a townie perspective to not care about the mech of your NP, why?

For some reason, I get the feeling that you are not actually reading my posts all that closely lol

I am also getting the feeling that you are getting a bit tunneled on me, and I no longer think that having a back and forth with you over this topic will benefit the thread in anyway, and is just taking up our post limit.

Spoiler:

I also don't even really know why you scum read me - other then the fact that I ignored your early scum read on me lol

[Servant Archer]

As for your other question about why I initially scum-read you; it has to do with your entrance; it felt fake and performative to me:

19 is where you answer your own question about why you wouldn't want to be master'd - I didn't like how you laid out things, it feels to me almost like you want people to town-read you for how much you don't want to be master'd and don't want the town leadership position.

this phrase in particular pinged me:

"Currently looking for someone to come ObvTown for me, so I can vote them lol"

It feels like something that's just pointlessly added on at the end and performative - not an actual thing that people state.. and then the "lol" like why?

Because of this game being anonymous, I don't know that I can really address this in a satisfying way. Like, I think the answer in a normal game would be to back up what I am going to say with meta examples - and thats not an option :/

I generally don't know the right way to get into a game off the bat - kinda flounder until someone or something starts to engage me. So, I walked into this game, and asked a question. Hit refresh a couple times, and did not see a response - I saw later that the issue was that lancer was not sure how to answer, but when I was just staring at an empty thread, I did not know that. So I decided to try and get engaged a different way. Thought maybe I could spark a conversation by answering first.

So I answered my own question. The last part might have been a bit light hearted - but, it was also the first page of the game, and I was trying to get lancer to engage with me

Spoiler: lol

also, I have been called out for dropping "lol"s at the ends of my posts since my very first game on site -- but again, I can't really point you anywhere to back that up

You state you don't want to be town leader but your stances throughout the day as it unfolds have been very agenda-y; you don't seem like the type that enjoys deferring to other people.

I can be loud and opinionated in the thread - but I also don't like to be the true town leader. -- In most instances, I would much rather have someone else that I can trust to bounce my reads/thoughts off of. I am also aware that my scum reads are generally only so-so (in general, I am usually happier with my town reads), and who ever becomes the IC, their scum reads are gonna be important.

Your reconsideration on your Saber vote felt very strange to me, vote -> unvote -> then asking a question, it feels like tactical re-consideration rather than read re-consideration. The difference being that I think scum tend to have more likelihood to regret their votes quickly rather than town because scum are considerate of positioning whereas town take more thought imo into making the correct choices. I feel you are making an impulsive vote on Saber and then regretting it.

117 feels like you are trying to get Ego/Beast to be at each other's throats.

I have serious concerns about your "Master Preference";

You began by voting Saber, then unvoting Saber afterwards.

You ask Ego if Ego would like to be Master after Ego had a few townreads thrown at Ego,

You say that Assassin is a better choice for Master over Saber by Mech.

The first time you mention Berserker's name with any kind of read is to say in 247 that you would want him to be master'd - previously the only mention of berserker in your ISO I could find was a question that you asked of him, so it's kind of weirdly unnatural the way you approach his slot for me.

My opinion on who should be the Master / how we should choose them has evolved over the course of the game. Wavering between the importance of making a good mech choice and making a good leader choice.

In regards to Saber unvote - I was typing post 55. I hit submit - 51, 52, and 53 all popped up on my preview screen

Spoiler:

yes I think whoever thinks their NP would be very strong should volunteer for it.

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

VOTE: Saber

sold

VOTE: Saber

And, my gut reaction was "damn, I guess we vote Saber here" so I voted - "My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early." Is a pretty convincing arguement on the surface. But when I read it a second time, I realized that there was no way that town!Saber would actually know that - So my next thought was, he is either overselling as town, or he is scum - either way, I wanted to hold off on my vote.

This is also a moment where I thought "huh, just choosing the best mech choice might not be that great of an idea - scum will always have the option to hype their mech value above the town's actual best mech choice"

My reach out to Aleter Ego, was in direct response to this post btw

I think choosing a townread who'd work well as conftown is preferable to selecting anyone for mechanical reasons. The influence of an IC and the double elimination outweighs any mechanical consideration based on people's roles.

Bouncing from what I had just thought about in regards to Saber, into immediately seeing this, made me start considering this angle for making this choice.
I had found Alter Ego posts townie, other people were finding their posts townie, and I generally like their tone on a "how well can I work with this person" level - so I wanted to see how they felt about it. --- And they said that they were not interested lol

So from there, I was on the look out for another person I thought fit that same criteria - by 247, I started feeling that way about Berserker.

[Servant Archer]

I’d appreciate it if everyone’s next post could include two people they prefer and two people off the table when it comes to elimination one. Preferably with detail about each.

I would say Alter Ego and caster are the people I would avoid elimming
You asked for 2, but (at the risk of adding to their "not enough OMGUS read") I would add Beast to that list as well.

My preference for who we should vote off is a little less sure. I am building up town reads, but most of the other players are in null :/
gth, I would go for a Foreigner elim - again, my scum read here is weak, but on a gut level I have not liked their posts. Also, I feel like they were avoiding the discussion on who should be master with their "page top count" posts

Even when there was a discussion on whether there was resistance to someone being a master, I went through each iso to try and get a feel for how each player felt about the choices, and I could not find anywhere that he has made his preference clear. The way he danced around the major discussion of the day feels off to me.

[Servant Archer]

3. Archer: Not enough omgus.

The only person that I know of that even scum read me was Caster, who you have said you thought was town.

So you are suspicious of me for thinking Caster is town, even though you also think caster is town?

That seems a little silly

[Servant Archer]

I personally feel like I am a pretty hard person to push out in almost every game I have played. As other people have pointed out already, I can generally be a pretty loud and opinionated person, and I also got a few town reads pretty early. So, in general, I don't think that I am the kind of person that scum would target to be their day 1 elim, so I often end up town read people who very loudly scum read me Day 1, because I don't expect scum to do that.

On my main, I have reached the point where I have responded that way enough times, and it has been commented on enough, that I am becoming weary that scum players familiar with me might try that as a tactic in my games, but here, playing anonymously, I don't really have to worry about that (until I brought it up just now).

Also, also 374 has locked in my town read on him. The fact that he stopped, and typed up that wall post helps there. He put a lot of effort into that if he was fake casing me, especially for him to have put it out there in during our Day 0. Plus his reasoning for scum reading me seems genuine

[Servant Archer]

Beast is boxed in and is desperately trying to expand the POE by attacking me and Archer.

I do not agree with this assessment.

If he were scum trying to call us both into question, I feel like he would at least be trying to do it in a convincing way to try and sway Berserker, right?

But his stated reasons were

2. Alter: Too much omgus.
3. Archer: Not enough omgus.

I am not sure that either of those are very good ways to sway someone lol

[Servant Archer]

That link to 374 brings me to the front page.

Strange

374

It is his scum case on me. Very detailed, and reads as genuine.

[Servant Archer]

And we are still waiting on Caster to outline their thoughts about me and archer.

He made a scum case on me in 374 -- Although I have not seen anything on you.

Which is strange, since you are the one leading in the master selection

@Caster, can you give your thoughts on Berserker?

[Servant Archer]

In fact we should elect Beast. He made the most posts. If he flips town then we can use his vocality to lead and if he flips scum then scum loses the most influential player.

I hope this is a joke post

[Servant Archer]

I very much do not like the direction that the conversation between Beast and Alter is taking. Since neither are currently in the running for Master, I don't think that there is much harm in the two of you avoiding talking about the other for a bit.

[Servant Archer]

Read some ISOs because I'm bored and restless. A bit leery of the scumreads being expressed on Rider. That feels like a slot scum would see as low hanging fruit.

[Servant Archer]

Lancer, Archer, what are your thoughts on Saber?

I am a bit weary of them I still stand by what I said in 213

Spoiler:

And also, the second half does not make sense to me "I don't want to be a miselimination for overpromising and under delivering." In what scenario is this actually a worry? If you "over promise, and under deliver" do you mean that you think we might miselim you AFTER we make you an IC - just because your power does not pay off the way you promise? Or are you saying that if you tell us how great you would be as an IC, then if we don't make you an IC, we would then kill you for not living up to the promise? - Because that also does not make a lot of sense.

Their power level claim is also one that I could see scum making?

Spoiler:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

I am going to claim to be uber strong, but only if I get the master. If I don't get the master, then it is super weak sauce
~ so don't look at me again on day 4/5 and expect much from me.

Like, maybe they are telling the truth, but also maybe they scum are hedging their bets on and covering their bases in case they don't get the selection

[Servant Archer]

Caster, what the fuck?

Also - I am going VLA for a few days. I should still be able to check in like once a day tho

[Servant Archer]

It's really unfortunate for me that the people I trust I don't like and the people I like I don't trust.

Does that mean you don’t like me :<

Does this mean you do like me

[Servant Archer]

People are being real subtle here

Spoiler:

[Servant Archer]

Do I need to wax poetic to make it known that I would happily accept such an offer?

[Servant Archer]

Jesus fucking Christ Berserker

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: Berserker

I logged on, was catching up - saw this post, and decided I needed to just avoid the thread during twilight because I did not want to deal with Caster telling me how wrong I was. And immediately started dreading having to defend myself start of Day 1

[Servant Archer]

@Berserker

Is there any one you want me to give a look over?

I probably won't be able to give the game a full reread until like Saturday night (am out of town), but I can probably look at like 1~2 people tomorrow, just not sure who to prioritize atm

When you pretended to be scum, my mind went a million miles an hour trying to reevaluate the whole game around that knowledge, but now that you have been revealed town, I feel like I have sunk back to where I was before. My top town read flipped town, so nothing is really being shaken up with the new info I have to work with.

[Servant Archer]

@Archer/Caster:

Would like to see updated thoughts on the game from you, when you get a chance.

I have been out of town the last few days, but I am home now. I will try and get caught back up

[Servant Archer]

I logged on last night to do my updated read list but we were thread locked. Anyways

----------Town Read----------

Caster

- I am pretty convinced that caster is town.
Linking me and Berserker makes little since to have come from the scum team now that Berserker has been confirmed town. And they spent a lot of time pushing me to explain why I was pushing for Berserker to get the master, so all she really accomplished was me putting more effort into detailing why Berserker was a good choice.

Plus their reasoning to be suspicious of my and berserker were pretty detailed (even thought she was wrong, I see how she could genuinely believe what she was claiming to believe.

Spoiler: @Caster

I did not get a chance to point this out before, but I found it humorous that you believed Berserker was "claiming that he’s the only suitable candidate" in post 50 -- when he was actually calling you scum in that post lmao - see post 161 - and you just misunderstood

----------Town Lean----------

Lancer

- I like the look of 16 and 25. They seem very genuine to me.
57 advocates for us to focus on hitting a town read, as opposed to a mech target for master. This is the opposite of the argument needed to elect either of Assassin or Saber, and it is coming pretty early, when they were both still options.
Later on, he openly opposes both Saber (216) and Assassin (249), and is on board with Berserker by 249

Alter Ego

- I got a gut town read on them pretty early, and then not much happened to really change that. Overall, the way they considered each of Assassin, Saber, and Berserker felt like they were weighing each option, and not like they had a predetermined choice in mind. I also liked 119. It is not something that I think that scum would post. They undercut me when I was DEFENDING them lmao

Beast

I liked 86->91 coming from them. Like, they were trying to drag more info out of me that could both help them sort Saber and help them sort me/understand my thinking.
577 felt like a genuine response to my 575
I did feel like they were being pretty confrontational in the way they were dealing with people, but in ways that are not going to make other people think the other person might be scum.[

Shielder

gets to honorarily go here based on Beast's claim. Should never be in consideration for elimination before a Beast flip]

Rider

- They have not been saying much --
I did find their reasoning for supporting Berserker interesting.

In 495 "Also, Archer seems to really want the Berserker wagon, and I really like the Archer slot, so I wouldn't mind the Berserker wagon going through."

This does not seem like the reason that scum would present?? Like, why pitch it as town reading me instead of as townreading the person who is going to become town leader?

They also moved up a bit following 855

----------Null----------

Assassin

- I am not sure how I feel here. Their campaign for master, and the progression on mech claims rubbed me the wrong way, but outside of their campaign, I have found them aggressively null

Avenger

I honestly cannot figure out what to take of the miller claim. They also join the Berserker campaign pretty early, when Saber was still in the lead.
There is not really anything in his iso that screams scum to me, but the iso is also pretty sparse.

----------Scum----------

Moon Cancer

They just are not giving anything to work with. This is the exact type of iso that would make me want to do a meta check to see if they normally play this way, but that is not an option here :/

Saber

Saber's campaign for the master feels like the exact campaign a cautious scum team would make. Like I can imagine the planning conversation

Spoiler:

"How can we get the master"
"Well, one of us can claim we have an insanely powerful NP"

"But wait, what happens if I don't get chosen, won't they expect me to do something amazing later in the game?"

"I know, just say that it is only good in the early game"
"So okay, how does this sound:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

"ahh, that's perfect."

I also stand by what I said in 213 -- Saber's worry there makes no sense coming from town. When would you ever be worried about this? ---I don't think town ever is, but it feels similar to what I bolded in the hypothetical conversation. Also, not a fan of their "town read everyone" read list

Foreigner

- I have talked about this slot before. But I still don't like the way the danced around the master choice. Like none of it felt to me like someone who was genuinely trying to figure out who would be the best choice.
Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

[Servant Archer]

So uhh. When I typed that, I meant to go back and add post tags on all of that, but forgot when I just posted it :/

Spoiler: again with post tags, but broken spoiler tags this time

----------Town Read----------

Caster

- I am pretty convinced that caster is town.
Linking me and Berserker makes little since to have come from the scum team now that Berserker has been confirmed town. And they spent a lot of time pushing me to explain why I was pushing for Berserker to get the master, so all she really accomplished was me putting more effort into detailing why Berserker was a good choice.

Plus their reasoning to be suspicious of my and berserker were pretty detailed (even thought she was wrong, I see how she could genuinely believe what she was claiming to believe.

[spoil//er=@Caster]I did not get a chance to point this out before, but I found it humorous that you believed Berserker was "claiming that he’s the only suitable candidate" in post 50 -- when he was actually calling you scum in that post lmao - see post 161 - and you just misunderstood[/spoil//er]

----------Town Lean----------

Lancer

- I like the look of 16 and 25. They seem very genuine to me.
57 advocates for us to focus on hitting a town read, as opposed to a mech target for master. This is the opposite of the argument needed to elect either of Assassin or Saber, and it is coming pretty early, when they were both still options.
Later on, he openly opposes both Saber (216) and Assassin (249), and is on board with Berserker by 249

Alter Ego

- I got a gut town read on them pretty early, and then not much happened to really change that. Overall, the way they considered each of Assassin, Saber, and Berserker felt like they were weighing each option, and not like they had a predetermined choice in mind. I also liked 119. It is not something that I think that scum would post. They undercut me when I was DEFENDING them lmao

Beast

I liked 86->91 coming from them. Like, they were trying to drag more info out of me that could both help them sort Saber and help them sort me/understand my thinking.
577 felt like a genuine response to my 575
I did feel like they were being pretty confrontational in the way they were dealing with people, but in ways that are not going to make other people think the other person might be scum.[

Shielder

gets to honorarily go here based on Beast's claim. Should never be in consideration for elimination before a Beast flip]

Rider

- They have not been saying much --
I did find their reasoning for supporting Berserker interesting.

In 495 "Also, Archer seems to really want the Berserker wagon, and I really like the Archer slot, so I wouldn't mind the Berserker wagon going through."

This does not seem like the reason that scum would present?? Like, why pitch it as town reading me instead of as townreading the person who is going to become town leader?

They also moved up a bit following 855

----------Null----------

Assassin

- I am not sure how I feel here. Their campaign for master, and the progression on mech claims rubbed me the wrong way, but outside of their campaign, I have found them aggressively null

Avenger

I honestly cannot figure out what to take of the miller claim. They also join the Berserker campaign pretty early, when Saber was still in the lead.
There is not really anything in his iso that screams scum to me, but the iso is also pretty sparse.

----------Scum----------

Moon Cancer

They just are not giving anything to work with. This is the exact type of iso that would make me want to do a meta check to see if they normally play this way, but that is not an option here :/

Saber

Saber's campaign for the master feels like the exact campaign a cautious scum team would make. Like I can imagine the planning conversation

[spoil//er=]"How can we get the master"
"Well, one of us can claim we have an insanely powerful NP"

"But wait, what happens if I don't get chosen, won't they expect me to do something amazing later in the game?"

"I know, just say that it is only good in the early game"
"So okay, how does this sound:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

"ahh, that's perfect."[/spoil//er]
I also stand by what I said in 213 -- Saber's worry there makes no sense coming from town. When would you ever be worried about this? ---I don't think town ever is, but it feels similar to what I bolded in the hypothetical conversation. Also, not a fan of their "town read everyone" read list

Foreigner

- I have talked about this slot before. But I still don't like the way the danced around the master choice. Like none of it felt to me like someone who was genuinely trying to figure out who would be the best choice.
Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

[Servant Archer]

@Archer, I think it's time to outright claim my NP given I won't likely be using it and it might explain the concern you had.

My NP is to shut down excessive stupid and pointless T v Ts by limiting the posting of one of the parties involved. Using it early ensures we get good focus and communication between town. It prevents scum from starting drama and trying to pin us against ourselves. Fighting amongst ourselves is how town lose games. I've seen it happen too many times over the years.

By the time my bar fills up, it's useless as the gamethrow would have already happened.

I felt it was my duty to act the way I did. Getting a cohesive, unassailable block is more important than 1 clear ever will be. I have a go to game for this proposition but proving it would hint at my identity.

...

wow. I am very glad that we did not elect you based on your mech promise then. Also, this feels like a scum ability

Will think on it over night

[Servant Archer]

Dedicating time to this game but I wouldn't expect to much for 24ish hours due to the type of weekend.

A recap would be nice

Claims:

Avenger: I am claiming Miller
Assassin: Claims their NP a guaranteed cop-shot that can even go through the miller
Saber: Claimed their NP was one of the strongest in the game, but just recently claimed the ability would limit the posting of 1 player
Beast: Claimed they are informed that Shielder is town

Berserker/Mod Confirmed: They are immune to investigations, but I don't think that matters much, now that they are confirmed town anyways

And then here are a few detailed read lists, with post links and stuff that might help:

Here is Berserkers, it came towards the end of the Day 0, after it was clear Berserker was getting the master: 504
Here is mine: 901 / 902
Rider: 855
Previous Ruler: 834 cases town reads + 890 cases scum reads

[Servant Archer]

Town had some fairly scummy sounding abilities in the first game. What's more bothersome is the disconnect of how Saber was selling it versus the underwhelming description of what it actually is.

I meant I would be thinking on both of those aspects

[Servant Archer]

I could be okay with a Saber elim.

My scum read on Foreigner is stronger, but in regards to saber, it could help us look at who was/wasn't supporting him Day 0 based on the flip.

I am not sure how many votes that is -- will double check count before voting

[Servant Archer]

I could be okay with a Saber elim.

My scum read on Foreigner is stronger, but in regards to saber, it could help us look at who was/wasn't supporting him Day 0 based on the flip.

I am not sure how many votes that is -- will double check count before voting

I thought your case on Saber was more convincing, personally.

Possibly. I think the my read on Foreigner feels stronger to me, just because almost every post that comes from them makes it stronger, where are Saber has their moments

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: Saber

[Servant Archer]

Where is the president?

I would like him to weigh in on the three wagons

[Servant Archer]

As long as it’s in Saber or moon I’m happy.

I feel like the issue is that we are pretty split amongst the two -- and need you to help us consolidate

[Servant Archer]

I'll fullclaim if Berserker determines it necessary, not before then. If that means I don't fullclaim, so be it. It's his town now.

@Berserker -- Do you think we should have Saber fullclaim?

[Servant Archer]

I’ve been thinking on that claim and I think I believe it.

I’m going to ruminate on it some. But moon should claim and then die.

Does believing their claim make them town?

VOTE: Moon Cancer

[Servant Archer]

I had foreigner as scum in my scum list, but this play makes me want to vote for Avenger

And, it makes me want to eliminate Moon with the second elim of the day.

Avenger, I am not sure what you were thinking here.

[Servant Archer]

100% scum based on...?

On that I'm right here.
I'm genieunly good with this, even more so when people use bullshit reasons to try and force a push.

And I can say that because if I flip scum it means fuck all.
If I flip town, then what I'm saying has merit.

So your "there is 100% scum between the two of us" is basically, you are really really sure of your read?

Jesus Christ.

You are so sure of your read that you decided to halt the plans for the entirety of the town.

I agree, even if you are town, this is the most anti-town play you could have made

[Servant Archer]

My vote is that we elim Avenger. If he flips scum, cool.

If he flips town, then we all collectively ignore his iso, so he can be salty from the ghost chat, and maybe learn not to pull shit like this in future games

VOTE: Avenger

[Servant Archer]

Unlike the players trying to pretend here I'm not only going to follow someone from the title 'leader' even when I think they are wrong.

Also, for the record I can stop this gladiator attempt at any point I want.
I will not be doing that though.

"Yeah, I am not gonna follow a town leader who everyone knows is town, instead I am going to declare that everyone should follow me"

omg. I thought foreigner was scummy, but if anything, this makes me want to never elim Foriegner just out of spite.

[Servant Archer]

Zero indication given that you didn't scumread moon cancer

Zero words said in their defense

And you expect people to believe this?

Yes, I do.
Let's say I flip town. Does my word have merit?

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

[Servant Archer]

"Yeah, I am not gonna follow a town leader who everyone knows is town, instead I am going to declare that everyone should follow me"

omg. I thought foreigner was scummy, but if anything, this makes me want to never elim Foriegner just out of spite.

Well, that's your choice.
I think you may have mis understood what I was saying though.

No, I think I got it.

You disagreed with the direction that Berserker was leading us, so you decided to take agency away from the entire player list, instead of, I don't know... talking to us.

Explaining your town read on Moon Cancer, or trying to push your scum read on Foreigner.

[Servant Archer]

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

Okay, say I flip town, Moon flips town and foreigner flips scum.
Is my judgement still bad?

Yes. Even then. You choosing to do this gladiate right now, is bad judgement, even if you end up being right.

Like, I am not sure how you could have looked at this situation, and thought that this would have any result other then you being eliminated.

And I also don't see how you could believe that you making this play would result in any of us taking your read on foreigner more seriously.

So for you to think that this is a good play, tells me you have bad judgement.

The sheer hubris required for you to be this confident in your scum read on Day 1 -- Willing to get yourself miselimed for it, and willing to set the town up for 2 miselims in a row if you are wrong-- all before we have had any flips is... a bad play

[Servant Archer]

The fact that Avenger is now saying they don't even town read Moon Cancer (they are null) makes this play even wilder.

Was he really so bothered that town was going to elim a null read, that he decided to step in and make sure that did not happen?

[Servant Archer]

@new Berserker, this is a little outdated, but this was my attempt at trying to get the new Ruler up to date::

Spoiler:

Dedicating time to this game but I wouldn't expect to much for 24ish hours due to the type of weekend.

A recap would be nice

Claims:

Avenger: I am claiming Miller
Assassin: Claims their NP a guaranteed cop-shot that can even go through the miller
Saber: Claimed their NP was one of the strongest in the game, but just recently claimed the ability would limit the posting of 1 player
Beast: Claimed they are informed that Shielder is town

Berserker/Mod Confirmed: They are immune to investigations, but I don't think that matters much, now that they are confirmed town anyways

And then here are a few detailed read lists, with post links and stuff that might help:

Here is Berserkers, it came towards the end of the Day 0, after it was clear Berserker was getting the master: 504
Here is mine: 901 / 902
Rider: 855
Previous Ruler: 834 cases town reads + 890 cases scum reads

[Servant Archer]

I get whip lash going from 1260 to 1262.

I would not mind Avenger still being our first flip, but I could go for Moon as well

[Servant Archer]

I believe gladiator's can cancel their ability, I'm not sure if every gladiator can do that or if this was a unique mechanic where the name was revealed as a consequence in exchange for the ability to cancel.

Avenger can still be a scum miller, but his flavor is very spot on so I'm not sure they lied about anything.

I don't think anyone is disputing that Avenger started the gladiate or that Avenger ended it


The thing that strikes me as odd is how sudden of a tonal shift there is. Avenger is still loudly defending his gladiate on Foreigner in 1260, and then meekly surrendering in 1262. Reading it back to back is surprising.

In 1260, Avenger is responding to Lancer's 1255. So, as of reading 1255, Avenger appears to still think their gladiate is the right play, and is defending it.

Then only post from Alter Ego following that is

Spoiler:

The fact that Avenger is now saying they don't even town read Moon Cancer (they are null) makes this play even wilder.

Was he really so bothered that town was going to elim a null read, that he decided to step in and make sure that did not happen?

On a day with a double elimination, no less.

So to see Avenger so suddenly change his stance to

Well do as you like.
Personally Ego has made me just feel shit at this stage to really care what happens.

I removed the challenge just go with me.

Gives me whip lash

[Servant Archer]

Okay, well we can look back at the Avenger stuff for the next flip

VOTE: Moon

[Servant Archer]

Do you think that having a gladiate ability is inherently townie? Do you think that the way Avenger used it was particularly townie? Were you town reading them before the gladiate?

[Servant Archer]

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

Thats a horrible trade off but I dont see two scum going to bat for their buddy in this manner

Also, why are you honing in on Alter and Lancer?

Avenger (6): Lancer, Foreigner, Alter Ego, Saber, Archer, Caster

[Servant Archer]

We are seriously running out of time at this point. We have less then 4 days to flip someone - react to that flip - start a whole new wagon.

I feel like we are back to this point:

But moon should claim and then die.

@Moon Cancer - Please claim

Moon Cancer (6) : Alter Ego, Assassin, Caster, Rider, Saber, Archer

8 votes are needed

If Moon Cancer does not claim in the next like 12 hours, MAX, we need to go ahead and hammer without the claim. Waiting much longer means that the next elim will be heavily rushed.

[Servant Archer]

I just checked, and Moon Cancer has not been in thread for like 32 hours. It might not be the best choice to wait for a response from them anyways

[Servant Archer]

Having thought about it more, I am okay with a hammer here -- Moon Cancer was told to claim 12+hours ago in 1091, so they have already gotten that wait time I mentioned.

So in my opinion, Shielder / Berserker can hammer if they want

[Servant Archer]

At this point it's likely Moon Cancer will stall things out, they've been waiting until the prod timer would run out to post. And, ultimately, I feel like nothing they could claim would actually make me want to keep them alive here with the way they're playing. Maybe I'm being hyper-tunneled, and I'm about to eat shit, but I'm fine with that if it's the case because Moon Cancer isn't even really playing the game at this point. If that thing is town then I know I need to reset my reads.

Agreed.

@shielder, I will take responsibility for the hammer, if that would keep you from voting here

UNVOTE:

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: Moon Cancer

[Servant Archer]

They're divergent enough. imo. But we'll see.

Not that it matters any more, but I felt like their first read list was divergent, then their second read list was pretty close to the consensus - minus Alter Ego being in the bottom

[Servant Archer]

Based on Saber + Beast claims, I don't think I'd buy an investigative type claim here regardless, and I don't think a different type of claim can be so town that we'd change what we're doing

I don't have a personal opinion on Moon Cancer, but feel obligated to follow Berserker's 1091. That and I do see the merit in moving this along so we can discuss the next elimination, and I don't think this one is going to change

I don't understand, why do saber and beast claims affect the possibility of an investigative?

Also, our confirmed townie has claimed that they have a passive ability which causes all investigative abilities targeting them to fail -- so, unless that is a red herring, we must have some sort of investigative abilities

[Servant Archer]

It's who isn't on the wagon.

Beast, Shielder, and Berserker weren't on the wagon which makes me anxious.

Well - one of you those is you. The other two BOTH were replaced today, so it is not surprising that they were not ready to commit to an elim.

The original Berserker openly said that Moon should be the first elim

[Servant Archer]

I have no doubt that a member of the scum team would be ready to bus, when this is the last direction Notscience left before getting replaced lol

But moon should claim and then die.

[Servant Archer]

Okay, so do we think that Moon Cancer's partner would so brazenly try to derail their wagon the way that Avenger did?

[Servant Archer]

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

Okay, say I flip town, Moon flips town and foreigner flips scum.
Is my judgement still bad?

@Avenger, if you are town, I would like to just say

[Servant Archer]

Saber's first post in the game:

Archer
Saber

<---Saber

Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Ruler,Avenger,Foreigner
Caster,Beast
Berserker

<---Person campaigning against Saber

Assassin

<---Person campaigning against Saber

Alter Ego

VOTE: Saber

Also, do we think that Moon Cancer was originally trying to help their scum buddy get a master ?

[Servant Archer]

Having looked at it a bit more, yeah. I think they were

VOTE: Saber

The complete read list flip from 226 -> 462 is fairly close to when Saber started giving Berserker a town read (472)

So, it looks to me like the scum chat going from trying to get their master, to accepting defeat to Berserker.

[Servant Archer]

Personally I feel that a traffic analyst claim should at least earn Saber a night to attempt actions

In a role madness game, where every player has like 4 abilities?

[Servant Archer]

Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.

So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.

This is silly, because it is so incredibly easy for cabd to balance around charging mechanic.

In the last game, the scum team averaged 4* needed for their NP, simply making them average 4.5-5 immediately offsets giving them abilities that can charge one another.

Regardless, I do not want to try and solve this game based on Mech, and would much rather solve it by looking at how people have played -- such as the confirmed scum wanting Saber to be the master at the start of Day 0, and the fact that we were all so suspicious of Saber's play for the master that we almost ran him up already

I mean, ignoring all attempts to say "scum would not have XX ability" and just looking at day play, look how close we were to elim'ing Saber

Spoiler:

As long as it’s in Saber or moon I’m happy.

Saber. I think that flip will provide tons of information even if wrong. But it’s mind boggling to me to view that play from town.

Yes, Saber should claim.

[Servant Archer]

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

Do you think that that would still apply to literally their first post in the thread -- before any pressure was on them? Because that is the post I reference back to.

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: Ruler
I would not be against a Ruler elim either.

Mastina talked more about Moon Cancer, then moon cancer ever even posted themselves

Spoiler:

Strange as 226 may be, my inclination is Servant Moon Cancer's pure of heart

I buy Servant Moon Cancer's 464 as pure of heart.

Scum

Servant Moon Cancer

- Originally one could have made the argument that such controversial reads in 226 were more likely to come from scum. Then, they change their entire list up in 462 after receiving a lot of flak over a few of these reads, one central one is their read on me. They justify the read on me in 238 (and I use the term justify lightly). The person who calls it out (other than me I believe) is Alter, their lowest scumread. There is no backtrack, there is no attempt to read me, just a strange flip. Even if they said "Well my strongest townread is pro-Berserker Master" that would at least make some sense. The backtracks feel too inorganic.

I would raise the counterargument of simple motive, giving the risk and reward of the action undertaken and what it would strive to accomplish as either a corrupt or pure of heart.

With the initial readslist of 226, this post came out of the blue. It was random, it was largely against the grain, it was something going largely against thread consensus, with no logic presented, with nothing backing it up. Ask yourself, what does this accomplish if the player in question is corrupt? It casts attention onto them, it makes people give a side-eye to them, it makes the players think the individual in question is suspicious. It draws the eye and makes players focus on

Servant Moon Cancer

. None of this furthers the agenda of the corrupt. It gives a corrupt player nothing but unwanted attention, making individuals naturally suspicious of them.

I realize "too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy, but this is not using that fallacy. This is taking a look at which faction would be more likely to make the post in question. What possible advantage, what possible goal, was there in

Servant Moon Cancer

making that post if corrupt? It is not going to sway the minds of the masses. It is not going to convince the town that they are wrong on any of their reads. It cannot dissuade the town from pushing on the corrupt and cannot dissuade the town from correctly identifying those pure of heart. So what possible goal can there be for a corrupted servant to post 226? I can think of no motive and no reason for it.

In contrast, if

Servant Moon Cancer

is pure of heart, the motivation to post 226 is self-explanatory: they had formulated reads and made the decision to share these reads with the rest of the gathered.

When it comes to the shift in reads in 462 without prompting, the presented reads may have more in common with the group consensus (particularly a fair amount of overlap with my own takes), but I believe there is strong evidence that they formed these reads independently after having caught up, especially since their reads are not literally identical to other players. For instance, 464 does a good job of explaining the differences between their reads and mine.

Servant Moon Cancer

shows a strong individual thought process there unique to them, with reads that serve no function if they are corrupted.

What benefit is it to them to strongly scumread

Servant Alter Ego

, a consensus townread, while otherwise following the majority of the consensus in their own townreads? If they were corrupt, I struggle to see how. I admit it is not completely impossible, but the simpler explanation to me is they have their own takes spurned from genuinely forming reads thanks to being pure of heart.

It is also in part

because

there is no backtrack. There is simply a flip. A corrupt servant is more likely to try and justify a shift in their reads thanks to fear of suspicion were they to not justify it. (You even point out how this works with your take on me and how if I were corrupt I could justify a shift in read on

Servant Saber

. So you must be aware of what I am talking about.) A servant pure of heart fears nothing, so they feel no such obligation and are more free to truthfully speak their mind, even if it involves a shift from their prior thoughts.

Is this sufficient explanation for my read on

Servant Moon Cancer

?

I believe that the POE of {Alter Ego, Foreigner, Saber} has three scum. That obviously leaves one scum but I am sure we can find that one eventually.

Did you just POE in a game some people barely posted? So fake

POE in a game some servants have barely posted is perfectly doable if you generate enough townreads from the content posted.

I’d appreciate it if everyone’s next post could include two people they prefer and two people off the table when it comes to elimination one. Preferably with detail about each.

Off the table:

Servants Moon Cancer, Beast

. Not because they are my strongest pure of heart reads, but because they are the most likely to be falsely accused on D1 when they are pure of heart

Would Prefer not to Eliminate

Today

/Likely Pure of Heart

:

Servant Moon Cancer:

Though my heart of heart tells me deep in my intuition that they are very strongly pure of heart, I realize I have not much to objectify my read here beyond disagreeing with the strong distaste of the slot. I do not think

Servant Moon Cancer

's contributions indicate they are corrupt, but I have little to substantiate this claim.

[Servant Archer]

I would also say that new Rulers 1284 and 1287 seem strange as well

Spoiler:

THIS IS DUMB AF

WHY ARE WE MOVING TO ELIMINATE THE GLADIATOR

Excuse me for my language but my lord and savior wouldnt approve of my rage.

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

Thats a horrible trade off but I dont see two scum going to bat for their buddy in this manner

And I could see that being an attempt to keep us from defaulting back to a moon cancer elim. They have yet to come back and answer my questions in 1288 as well.

[Servant Archer]

@Ruler

Do you think that having a gladiate ability is inherently townie? Do you think that the way Avenger used it was particularly townie? Were you town reading them before the gladiate?

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

Thats a horrible trade off but I dont see two scum going to bat for their buddy in this manner

Also, why are you honing in on Alter and Lancer?

Avenger (6): Lancer, Foreigner, Alter Ego, Saber, Archer, Caster

[Servant Archer]

That leaves Lancer Alter Archer and Caster plus unvoters.

Caster felt the most subdued out of the four. So I guess them. When we get to emotional reading, I am garbage but I would suggest one of the four if not two.

I find this interesting. I looked back to see who you are town reading, and the most recent thing I found was 1053 where you agreed that all of "Alter/Archer/Caster/Shielder/Rider/Foreigner" were probably town.

But now you are saying that Lancer/Alter/Archer/Caster probably have 1-2 scum?

Can you clarify here? Or even just give us an updated read list

[Servant Archer]

Me and saber were first to catch Moon, so you should follow me now.

where did you two "catch" Moon?

I believe he is referring to the fact that they both voted Moon Cancer pretty early in the day, before their wagon gained steam

Spoiler:

Moon Cancer (2): Foreigner, Saber

Moon Cancer (2): Foreigner, Saber

Moon Cancer (2): Foreigner, Saber

[Servant Archer]

UNVOTE:
@Saber -- I would very much like an updated read list from you, with reasoning please and thank you

[Servant Archer]

On review, I think Lancer and Rider both look very, very good off the Moon Cancer flip. Those two, plus Shielder and Archer, are my top town currently.

I find the positioning of Caster and Beast around the flip problematic. I understand the impulse to go after Avenger given the awkwardness of his stance around Moon but I'm feeling some reservations. I'm not actually sure scum pull such an attention-drawing move like that.

Can you explain what makes Rider look "very, very good" off the Moon Cancer flip?

I am looking at Rider's iso, specifically for mentions of Moon Cancer

821 - Does not have Moon Cancer in their "prefered elimination" list - actually has 5 other players listed higher: "Saber, Beast, and Avenger. Just outside of that pool are Foreigner and Shielder"

855 - covers the entire player base, does have moon as "Not a huge fan here." But, because it is in the middle of a reads list, it is not actually pushing moon

912 - Empty vote, votes Moon Cancer

But then there is very little trying to get other people to go there. And by "very little" I mean that Rider does not mention a single reason for people to vote Moon Cancer, then moves to Saber

If people would rather skip the partner speculation, I'd be perfectly fine with wagoning/eliminating Saber here.

Post gladiate, they vote moon again - 1272

I mean, I don't think Rider looks bad on a Moon flip, just curious what makes you think they look "very, very good"

[Servant Archer]

I am also realizing that I am having the hardest time keeping Rider and Ruler's posts separated in my head

[Servant Archer]

855 - covers the entire player base, does have moon as "Not a huge fan here." But, because it is in the middle of a reads list, it is not actually pushing moon

912 - Empty vote, votes Moon Cancer

That feels a little bit of an unfair assessment? Just because the evaluation came "in the middle of a reads list" does not make it any less correct. The naked vote also goes entirely in conjunction with the read - sure, he

could

have voted elsewhere based on his previous stances, but he

didn't

. (He also had 492 early, although that is admittedly a very slight point about the oddness of Moon scumreading me but voting with me, I give credit for them actually bothering to call it out). If they were not the most vocal or aggressive pusher of Moon Cancer, I still like them significantly better than those who were trying not to call attention to Moon Cancer at all.

My point was that Rider called several people scummy in that post, and I did not read it as leading a push towards Moon Cancer (I would even say that some of the other cases presented were stronger and more thought out --

I also don't think it makes sense to link their empty vote, to that long read list. It came 57 posts later....

Again, I do not think that they look bad, I just don't think they look overly good. Like, they had moon in their scum pile, but generally had other people listed as scummier from what I can see.

However, Alter, you avoided my question: what makes you think that they look "really, really good" as you put it.

[Servant Archer]

Do you think that having a gladiate ability is inherently townie? Do you think that the way Avenger used it was particularly townie? Were you town reading them before the gladiate?

Tldr, no i don't think it's particularly townie, i think that as a role itself its Neutral but how it was used is not a scum for scum trade and the scum flip there further

I still don't understand why you were so angry at us for pushing Avenger when the gladiate was in effect? Can you explain that again?

If the moon cancer flip has changed your stance, you can mention that too, but I am specifically asking for you to explain your stance pre-moon cancer flip.

What lead to to making these posts :

Spoiler:

THIS IS DUMB AF

WHY ARE WE MOVING TO ELIMINATE THE GLADIATOR

Excuse me for my language but my lord and savior wouldnt approve of my rage.

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

Thats a horrible trade off but I dont see two scum going to bat for their buddy in this manner

And, why did you hone in on Lancer/Alter, as opposed to the several other people, incuding me and including Saber, who all pushed back similarly to the way Lancer and Saber reacted

[Servant Archer]

On top of everything else, everything strongly points to Saber being truthful and all the push on saber is largely due to playstyle difference and i wouldnt be surprised if there was a bad faith argument being made in sabers direction

I thought saber was more null before the gladiate and I dont understand how they suddenly moved to hard scum by multiple people due to it.

I would say that that is simply not the reality of the situation wrt Saber. Saber was very nearly our first elim, so much so that OG Berserker indicated that that was his number 1 choice

Spoiler:

As long as it’s in Saber or moon I’m happy.

I feel like the issue is that we are pretty split amongst the two -- and need you to help us consolidate

Saber. I think that flip will provide tons of information even if wrong. But it’s mind boggling to me to view that play from town.

To be fair, Berserker appeared to soften on that push after the full claim from saber, but it is inaccurate to act like he was null before the gladiate


Who do you think is making the bad faith argument?

[Servant Archer]

Seriously....

@RULER. I asked you the same questions in 1290, 1380, 1384, and 1449, and I still do not feel like I have gotten an adequate answer :/

• (I know you sorta answered 1 of those questions in 1444, but I did not understand your answer for the 1 question you did answer and you failed to answer the other)

Question 1

Why were you so angry that we voted for Avenger>Foreigner during the gladiate?
Specifically, what lead to you making these posts:

Spoiler:

THIS IS DUMB AF

WHY ARE WE MOVING TO ELIMINATE THE GLADIATOR

Excuse me for my language but my lord and savior wouldnt approve of my rage.

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

Thats a horrible trade off but I dont see two scum going to bat for their buddy in this manner

Question 2

In those posts ^^ why did you hone in on lancer/alter, when several people voted for avenger

Avenger (6): Lancer, Foreigner, Alter Ego, Saber, Archer, Caster

I feel that I was making the same arguements, just as loudly. I feel that saber made the same argument, albeit a little quieter -- so why did you hone in on Alter/Lancer?

[Servant Archer]

ok what do you want to pressure me to do?

provide... content?

To great effect I might add. Caster has been posting a lot more content since the vote lol

[Servant Archer]

Here are my thoughts on the Gladiate:

No one should be town reading Avenger for it

.

I am on the fence on whether I am scum reading him for it, or if I should just treat it as NAI, but I am definitely not going to be town reading them for it.

The key thing for me is the game state the moment that he chose to gladiate:

----------

Notty, the definitive town leader who 100% could have pushed though what ever wagon he wanted, stated that he wanted:
~Flip 1 to be Moon Cancer -- 1091
~Flip 2 to be Avenger -- 1095

If both Moon Cancer and Avenger are scum, then what did they have to lose by making such a play? If anything, the scum team would need to do something drastic.

I could see Scum!Avenger deciding that if they did nothing, then losing 2 members of the scum team was near guaranteed, but that activating the gladiate on a widely scum read player MIGHT just buy them a Foreigner flip -> essentially buying one of Moon/Avenger an extra day.

----------

Again. I am still trying to sort Avenger myself, but the scum motivation for the play is there given the game state, so:

I cannot buy the "scum would never do this, so we should town read them" argument.

I am still on the fence as to whether this is more likely or town Avenger deciding to make a horrible play (hijacking the thread, going against the town leader, and standing in the way of a Moon Cancer elim)

[Servant Archer]

These are the people I am okay with flipping atm :

[Saber, Avenger, Foreigner, Ruler]

[Servant Archer]

It is very hard to get into this game and to understand what's going on

I find this post suspect.

It comes after:
~1284, where Ruler made a big noise over the gladiate, where they had a very, very clear preference between Foreigner and Avenger, and
~1287 where they making an accusation at both Lancer and Alter (while having enough thread awareness to avoid pointing their finger at me for the same thing at the same time).

And it came

immediately

before:
~1444, where they take several stances, both in regards to Avenger and his gladiate, and Saber and his claim and the pushes being made in his direction

[Servant Archer]

To add to 1514 from Caster, I would again point out that Moon Cancer's very first post in the game was to vote for Saber to get the master and also listed Berserker and both as Assassin scummy

I am suspicious of Saber on his own, I was voting for him until Berserker specifically told me to move to Moon Cancer -- but a Saber flip would also shed light on the scum team's plans for the master.

VOTE: Saber

[Servant Archer]

VOTE: ruler

wut?

This all feels like you scum read them because their mindset and beliefs starkly contrast your own. Even keeping that in mind they are tellimg the truth of at least their identity so it stands to reason that they are telling the truth about other things even if you dont understand their truth.

This sounds like a question of sabers genuiness and imo if they dont agree with the IC they have the right to do what they want.

Opposing the IC rings +town anyway because theres no other point in going against thr IC other than to attempt to shade them and i don't see any indication of that in their posts.

I think that you misunderstood.

In Day 0 Saber campaigned to receive the master for himself -- I did not see anything about him "opposing the IC" after the fact - he has actually been pretty vocal about following Berserker.

Do you think that no member of the scum team tried to get the master Day 0?

[Servant Archer]

Also if saber truly did believe ehat they have stated in the thread regarding wanting the master and in their mind they beleived they were doing the right thing, then their actions make sense

You know, if we believe everything that everyone says, it turns out that there just is not any scum left in this game.

I think it is a mod error that it has not already been called a victory

[Servant Archer]

To add to 1514 from Caster, I would again point out that Moon Cancer's very first post in the game was to vote for Saber to get the master and also listed Berserker and both as Assassin scummy

And if they had gotten chosen this would have stuck out if they no longer existed in the actual game thread.

Everyone who pushed for saber would have been looked at closer so if scum could get town to make this push, why wouldn't they.

Also why wouldn't they opt to wait before making the push under this pretense

It is frustrating that you are chiming in on this, without taking the time to look at the post in question. It feels like you are just trying to be a contrarian, instead of actually trying to engage with the discussion properly.

Caster voted in post 52
Beast voted in 53
I voted in 56 (later unvoted)

Moon Cancer voted for Saber in post 226

If Saber won, and stumped as scum, then Moon would not have been instantly linked to that. Moon waited long enough to join into the discussion, that they had the cover to vote for either Assassin or Saber without being the first person looked at if that person ended up being scum, and they chose Saber.

Like, moon very clearly waited until other people were on that wagon before they joined.

[Servant Archer]

I'm not sure but if scum did campaign for it I would look to assassin firdt I think.

The first few pages had Saber campaign it immediately and only backed down when it was obvious that they weren't gojnf to be the choice

I think the way Saber went about it wasn't very graceful and if scum debated who should get it, if they decided that someone on the team shouls get it, scum wouldnt be so clumsy about it nor would come right oht the gate with jt

Pedit: I never said beleive everyone. What i said is that Saber has marks of genuineness and I believe saber is truthclaimjng servant name

We can just agree to disagree I guess.

I found Saber's way of campaining more likely to be scum. I still think that this is the exact angle that the scum team would come up with, if they thought they could win on a mech based campaign:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

[Servant Archer]

I'm not sure but if scum did campaign for it I would look to assassin firdt I think.

The first few pages had Saber campaign it immediately and only backed down when it was obvious that they weren't gojnf to be the choice

I think the way Saber went about it wasn't very graceful and if scum debated who should get it, if they decided that someone on the team shouls get it, scum wouldnt be so clumsy about it nor would come right oht the gate with jt

Pedit: I never said beleive everyone. What i said is that Saber has marks of genuineness and I believe saber is truthclaimjng servant name

Also, like... this is an instance response to my post, that displays a grasp of both Saber's and Assassin's campaign for Master day 1, without a need to look back over it, or think about how they felt about it

It is very hard to get into this game and to understand what's going on

That post is in regards to reading ehat came before me and in between times I'm not around. I can get opinions from what happens when I am around

[Servant Archer]

These are the people I am okay with flipping atm :

[Saber, Avenger, Foreigner,

Ruler

]

Are you kind of players, who suspect people which you disagree with? It is not really the best tool, scum right now are more likely to push the counterwagon rather then defend partner.

Umm, no? You, Saber, and Avenger were all at the bottom of my prior read list.

As for Ruler, I am suspicious of that slot because :
~It repeatedly tried to lead the thread away from a Moon Cancer elim
~The anger about us voting Avenger, read to me like someone with tmi knowledge that Avenger was town, and I have yet to see any better reason for the stance that they took (and I asked many times)
~I am also suspicious of people who claim to "not know what is going on" but repeatedly show thread awareness.

[Servant Archer]

Umm, no? You, Saber, and Avenger were all at the bottom of my prior read list.

And so far, my read list has not really needed any shaking up from my POV.

My top town read flipped town, and one of my scum reads flipped scum

[Servant Archer]

scum right now are more likely to push the counterwagon rather then defend partner.

And like --- this is exactly what Ruler did....

The moment the Gladiate ended, Ruler stepped in, and tried to give us a new direction, instead of having us go back to Moon Cancer

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

[Servant Archer]

i underlined ruler, because i was referring to it

And that is why I gave more detail on the Ruler slot??

As for Ruler, I am suspicious of that slot because :
~It repeatedly tried to lead the thread away from a Moon Cancer elim
~The anger about us voting Avenger, read to me like someone with tmi knowledge that Avenger was town, and I have yet to see any better reason for the stance that they took (and I asked many times)
~I am also suspicious of people who claim to "not know what is going on" but repeatedly show thread awareness.

scum right now are more likely to push the counterwagon rather then defend partner.

And like --- this is exactly what Ruler did....

The moment the Gladiate ended, Ruler stepped in, and tried to give us a new direction, instead of having us go back to Moon Cancer

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

[Servant Archer]

i underlined ruler, because i was referring to it

And that is why I gave more detail on the Ruler slot??

whatever i am not in the mood to argue

This is a strange response.

You asked me "are you scum reading Ruler, because they disagree with you"

I said, "Not really, here is a list of reasons I am suspicious of Ruler"

You, "I am not in the mood to argue"

Like -- what? I was just answering your question lol

[Servant Archer]

wtf --- I thought you JUST said that you specifically were referring to the Ruler slot?

i underlined ruler, because i was referring to it

And also, you are now voting for one of the people I said I was scum reading.

I am really struggling to understand you

[Servant Archer]

I mean did you want to talk about Ruler, or no?
Because I answered your question about Ruler, and if you actually had a point you wanted to make, please feel free to make it

I have no desire to drag on the discussion on my other reads, since you have made it clear you were trying to talk about Ruler ---I will cut all of that stuff out, and we can start fresh from here

These are the people I am okay with flipping atm :

[--, --, --, --

Ruler

]

Are you kind of players, who suspect people which you disagree with? It is not really the best tool, scum right now are more likely to push the counterwagon rather then defend partner.

Umm, no? ---

for Ruler, I am suspicious of that slot because :
~It repeatedly tried to lead the thread away from a Moon Cancer elim
~The anger about us voting Avenger, read to me like someone with tmi knowledge that Avenger was town, and I have yet to see any better reason for the stance that they took (and I asked many times)
~I am also suspicious of people who claim to "not know what is going on" but repeatedly show thread awareness.

scum right now are more likely to push the counterwagon rather then defend partner.

And like --- this is exactly what Ruler did....

The moment the Gladiate ended, Ruler stepped in, and tried to give us a new direction, instead of having us go back to Moon Cancer

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

Do you have more thoughts about the Ruler slot?
Were you going somewhere with the question?

[Servant Archer]

does anyone have any idea what Ruler is doing rn?

They appear to be trying desperately to save Saber, for reasons I am not quite sure on

[Servant Archer]

the big wtf for me is the self-vote

I believe that was a call back to this line:

Also sabers getting eliminated ovrr my dead body

[Servant Archer]

I think that people SR ruler improperly. She is not positioning herself against Saber, which as scum she would. She just disagree with people for sake of her ego.

To be clear, I was suspicious of Ruler before any of this stuff with Saber (although, it has not really helped)

1378 1380

[Servant Archer]

Ruler seems particularly caught up in the fact that Saber has claimed his true name.

I am wondering if she has an ability that only works if she can guess the person's name / some of their attributes (which she now knows since he claimed his true name) -- and this really boils down to her wanting to use that ability tonight

[Servant Archer]

Maybe, but we already have Avenger's true name.

You mean the other person that she has loudly been defending? lol

Spoiler:

THIS IS DUMB AF

WHY ARE WE MOVING TO ELIMINATE THE GLADIATOR

At least one between lancer/alter is scum for their hard push against avenger.

"Avenger has to be scum becaue that is not how I would use a gladiate so thats not how town woild"

Is literallt the entirety of the argument that two of you are making

Also, avenger waa null town, became more town when the gladiate happened, and is currently unquestionably town in my eyes after thr moon cancer flip.

[Servant Archer]

To be clear, the name thing is just me spit balling, because I really don't understand Ruler's takes

[Servant Archer]

I think the name thing has utility for scum and town. It can be used cleverly by either faction imo.

I was not trying to say that it was scummy or townie, it was just something I noticed. I would not be surprised if both alignments had abilities that interacted with names/attributes

1. This game heavily focuses around the fact that your class is known, but your specific servant's identity is not. Be aware that just is true of most stories, knowing one's myth means knowing one's weaknesses. Be careful when claiming or revealing information about your role. This aspect is majorly MORE important in the second running of the setup.

[Servant Archer]

We have like 48 hours to decide on our elim
@Berserker, what are you thinking atm?

Can we get an updated VC

[Servant Archer]

saber is being voted for the incongruity between their claim and asserted role strength during the master selection phase, right? I see how that's scummy, but I kinda think there's also room for doubt since iirc there's some sort of thing where roles get upgraded if chosen for master? I don't think I quite get that whole deal yet

Cabd has a post where he says that Scum NP's get upgraded if one of them gets a master.

For a town player, all that happens is that their NP gets fully charged.

--------------

Saber's NP is that he can limit the posting of one player. ---

With which he came out, guns blazing, claiming that he had "one of the strongest NPs in the game" and that we should give him the master, and that the scum team would be really afraid of giving him the master. He openly said that his NP was as good (if not better) then a cop result.

I find it hard to see a town player playing this way. When I look at his campaign, it really, really feels to me like the campaign the scum team would make Already, went into that before:

Saber

Saber's campaign for the master feels like the exact campaign a cautious scum team would make. Like I can imagine the planning conversation

Spoiler:

"How can we get the master"
"Well, one of us can claim we have an insanely powerful NP"

"But wait, what happens if I don't get chosen, won't they expect me to do something amazing later in the game?"

"I know, just say that it is only good in the early game"
"So okay, how does this sound:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

"ahh, that's perfect."

I also stand by what I said in 213 -- Saber's worry there makes no sense coming from town. When would you ever be worried about this? ---I don't think town ever is, but it feels similar to what I bolded in the hypothetical conversation. Also, not a fan of their "town read everyone" read list 472

[Servant Archer]

Saber and Foreigner are the two players at the bottom of my scum reads right now, and I am on board for either

[Servant Archer]

If a town Master is selected, the town Master + servant is revealed as an innocent child and becomes unkillable by ANY means until day two has passed.

The servant in that slot will additionally have their role modified to account for the additional support they now have

. Day 1 will become an double-elimination day and last for 240 hours (10 days) instead of 168 hours (7 days). (The first elimination WILL reset the vote count)

I have bolded the part that I'm referring to

I assumed that was to include the fact that they were IC'ed, and the fact that they gained the ability to give out * to other players.

So I think it is safe to assume that Saber's NP does not gain anything extra from getting the master; they clearly would have mentioned it when they explained why they fought for the master

I mean, also, looking at my own PM - it does not indicate any changes that would occur from getting the master.

[Servant Archer]

Takes 7 votes

Saber (5) : Beast, Rider, Archer, Assassin, Caster

E-2

[Servant Archer]

1616 makes me want to yeet Avenger or Foreigner > Saber tbh

I think that a scum flip on either would clear the other, so figuring out which one is actually scum in that 1v1 seems useful

[Servant Archer]

I almost just slipped my main

Typed out my whole response, and was about to hit send -- and realized.

I was like half a second away from being out of this game

what about my post convinced you?

Mainly the "Avenger and foreigner are 99.9999% not scum together" line.

While obvious as soon as you said it / I thought about it -- I had mainly been thinking about each of them in terms of "Could they be partners with Moon Cancer"

And now, I am realizing that shooting in there, in addition to shooting one of my scum reads, it has the potential of clearing up an otherwise scummy slot.

Although, I would say that we have reached a point where that thought came a little too late, and we should just move on with Saber, who is at E-1

[Servant Archer]

I'll be VLA until deadline so if I am the lim so be it.

With this coming from Saber, I don't know that there is a big reason to hold off on the hammer

UNVOTE:

If someone else puts it back at E-1, I can just be the person who hammers every wagon this game

[Servant Archer]

This is in remembrance of our OG town leader, notscience

VOTE: Saber

COBRA KAAAAAAI

Spoiler:

And if it is wrong, I blame you for abandoning us

[Servant Archer]

I kinda thought I was gonna be the night kill tbh. Ruler was a strange choice.

Beast, I am against an Avenger wagon at the moment --- Looking over Saber's iso, I think that the scum team decided to try and bus Moon Cancer for town cred -- so Avenger's gladiate makes less sense to be trying to save Moon.

VOTE: foreginer

Could it be? Could I really be 3/3 on my read list?

[Servant Archer]

I openly oppose an Avenger elim right now:

People that I would be willing to fight to avoid them being elimed:
Lancer, Alter Ego, Avenger

Would rather them not be the elim:
Caster, Rider, Assassin, Shielder

If you guys say insist:
Beast

Can we please yeet this? :
Foreigner

[Servant Archer]

people were loudly proclaiming how closely mastina was following her town meta

idk, I expected them to leave the slot alive simply because the reads coming from it were bad. First the slot hard defended moon, then the slot hard defended Saber. Seems like the person to keep alive to me.

I actually expected to be the night kill. I have been near universally town read (even more so then Ruler), but I am also helping push scum elims through.

Looking forward to seeing the mafia chat and finding out why they chose her.

[Servant Archer]

imo, Lancer is confirmed town in every scenario, unless the team is exactly Avenger+Lancer, which seems like too silly of an idea to entertain, even if Avenger does flip scum.

I am also think that Avenger is just town here.

[Servant Archer]

Can someone explain why they are voting avenger atm?

From my pov, Saber very clearly wanted to get town cred from bussing Moon Cancer

Spoiler:

I don't believe Moon's reads changed that quickly and his intent appears to be to throw mud and see what sticks.

VOTE: Moon Caster

There is probably something significant about foreigner and saber both voting moon cancer and then both becoming the counterwagons to moon cancer but I don’t yet know what that means

Most likely that Moon Cancer is straight up scum.

I'm back here: VOTE: moon cancer

I think foreigner is town.

I think foreigner and saber both voting moon cancer and then both becoming counterwagons to moon cancer is probably town-indicative for them and scum-indicative for moon cancer, on average. (although saber could still be scum, I think moon cancer is most likely of the 3 to be scum regardless of saber's alignment). I thought saber's NP stuff was a bit oblivious and have no idea whether that's intentional or not, but on second thought I don't think I think it's inherently scummy.

I like this as its where I am at as well. Moon Caster's cavalierness (if that's a word) suggests a scumteam backing them.

I think Avenger recalling the gladiate after seeing that he was going to lose it is very NAI survivalist. He can't very well do his scum agenda and/or push his Foreigner scumread if he's dead. Foreigner resistance actually increased as a result of the play there. I'm not sure what Avenger's intention was with recalling it but that's my best guess.

Meanwhile, Moon Cancer is still scum.

VOTE: Moon Cancer

Do you guys really think that Saber went through so much trouble to try and bus Moon for the cred, and then Scum!Avenger decided to step in with that gladiate?

[Servant Archer]

Instead of, I don't know -- joining the bus?

[Servant Archer]

Except the way it was done was never going to save moon.... We had a double elimination. At best, it would have moved moon from elim #1 to elim #2

And if he really was going all out to save moon, why tell us he could stop the gladiate, and why stop it?

[Servant Archer]

Unless you think that the entire scum team did not realize we had a double elim day 1?

[Servant Archer]

And are you really going to say that the scum team was not going to bus Moon... Like, Saber was very clearly trying to bus moon:

From my pov, Saber very clearly wanted to get town cred from bussing Moon Cancer

Spoiler:

I don't believe Moon's reads changed that quickly and his intent appears to be to throw mud and see what sticks.

VOTE: Moon Caster

There is probably something significant about foreigner and saber both voting moon cancer and then both becoming the counterwagons to moon cancer but I don’t yet know what that means

Most likely that Moon Cancer is straight up scum.

I'm back here: VOTE: moon cancer

I think foreigner is town.

I think foreigner and saber both voting moon cancer and then both becoming counterwagons to moon cancer is probably town-indicative for them and scum-indicative for moon cancer, on average. (although saber could still be scum, I think moon cancer is most likely of the 3 to be scum regardless of saber's alignment). I thought saber's NP stuff was a bit oblivious and have no idea whether that's intentional or not, but on second thought I don't think I think it's inherently scummy.

I like this as its where I am at as well. Moon Caster's cavalierness (if that's a word) suggests a scumteam backing them.

I think Avenger recalling the gladiate after seeing that he was going to lose it is very NAI survivalist. He can't very well do his scum agenda and/or push his Foreigner scumread if he's dead. Foreigner resistance actually increased as a result of the play there. I'm not sure what Avenger's intention was with recalling it but that's my best guess.

Meanwhile, Moon Cancer is still scum.

VOTE: Moon Cancer

[Servant Archer]

I believe eliminating at least one townie on a double elimination day is miles better than potentially allowing the town to flip two scum, especially since the original Berserker was leading towards eliminating both Saber AND Moon Cancer on Day 1.

This is not true. Berserker wanted to kill Moon Cancer, then Avenger.

If anything, notscience appeared to be softening on Saber after Saber claimed, and was moving away from that.

[Servant Archer]

Okay, I don't want to 1v1 you over this Rider, but Avenger being scum really just does not make sense, and I am gonna yell at anyone else who votes there

[Servant Archer]

How does it not make sense?

Do you believe he's actually a miller?

Yes. I actually believe the miller claim more then the cop claim from Assassin tbh.

After the miller claim, Assassin came back and said that his cop ability was worded in such a way that he was certain that it would by-pass a miller.

So, if you want to look at people making claims in response to other claims already on the table, I would point you there.

And if Assassin is telling the truth, why would his ability be worded in such a way that makes it clear it would by pass a miller, unless we have a miller.

------------

And even then, fuck the mech -- Avengers play is probably the dumbest possible play for scum to make Day 1 with his gladiate ability. If they thought Saber was going down no matter what, then you gladiate Saber. If they thought that Moon Cancer was going down no matter what, you bus Moon Cancer for the cred.

You are trying to say that Scum!Avenger was trying to get a foreigner elim out of the gladiate, but here is what the confirmed scum said in response

VOTE: Avenger

Hijacking the thread when there's a uniform townblock is just a scumclaim. Scum want to take over against a unified town block unless they express doubt first.

Saber planned on living, Saber planned on bussing Moon. Avenger fucked up that plan, and Saber jumped on the opportunity to get an elim on Avenger

[Servant Archer]

I'm actually more curious in why you think all our Day 1 wagons were on scum. Like, is your game-breaking analysis that the scumteam just let the town wagon all the scum without going for a townie?

My game breaking analysis is that the scum team was trying to buss Moon Cancer, so they were not out pushing wagons on a townie. And I think that that is why both Foreigner and Saber jumped on that push early. And also why Foreigner tried to bring it back up for the cred later.

Me and saber were first to catch Moon, so you should follow me now.

[Servant Archer]

Spoiler:

Why do you believe the Miller claim and not the 'cop' claim? That seems fairly counter-intuitive. Especially since the 'cop' claimed first AND said they were incompatible with the miller claim instead of using the miller claim as support for believing their own claim.

It also seems strange to have a miller and a "miller-proof" cop - unless we also have a non-miller proof cop, and I don't know how likely it is that Cabd would give us multiple cops

Considering that a lot of these super abilities are probably ***** and that it would take 5 days/nights to charge, most of these abilities will probably not see usage without outside help.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

I agree with the last paragraph and I want to believe assassin is lying.

Not to mention, the part here about Saber

wanting

to believe Assassin is lying makes me more inclined to believe that Assassin is town and telling the truth here.

I think Assassin is town here. Just with less certainty then I believe Avenger is town.

[Servant Archer]

Are you really so sure that Foeigner is town? Based on what? The fact that the scum were not building a counter wagon on a townie?

What evidence do you have that they wanted a counter wagon on a townie, and were not focused more on a bus?

The thing is, we have two confirmed scum's votes we can look back on. And guess what? Neither one were voting for a townie:

VOTE: Saber
Well, that is easy. Thanks for claiming scum.

Meanwhile, Moon Cancer is still scum.

VOTE: Moon Cancer

We know for a fact that the scum players we know about were cross voting. What about that tells you that they were not planning a bus?
Why are you so sure that those two would be cross voting, but the other scum players would not be involved with what they were doing?

[Servant Archer]

I know Ruler was kind of obvious town, but that is still a weird kill.

VOTE: Avenger

For now. I might change to foreigner later, I'm thinking on it.

Avenger being scum really just does not make sense, and I am gonna yell at anyone else who votes there

@Berserker, consider yourself being yelled at

[Servant Archer]

I know Ruler was kind of obvious town, but that is still a weird kill.

VOTE: Avenger

For now. I might change to foreigner later, I'm thinking on it.

Avenger being scum really just does not make sense, and I am gonna yell at anyone else who votes there

@

Berserker

Beast, consider yourself being yelled at

[Servant Archer]

I feel like the simplest and most likely explanation for what happened on Day 1 is for Foreigner to be town and Avenger to be scum, whereas I need to jump through many hoops to reach the opposite conclusion that you're presenting to me, which I just don't see being a thing.

Literally the only "hoop" to jump through is that the scum team was focused on busing, instead of focusing on building a counter wagon. That's it.

You are acting like that takes mental gymnastics.

Even if you think that your suggestion makes more sense, that is a wildly disingenuous representation of the way I am leaning

[Servant Archer]

I have a different theory. And it involves Archer specifically.

I am interested to hear it

[Servant Archer]

I currently believe you're responsible for Ruler's elimination and are currently trying to eliminate Foreigner as recompense.

??

I am not a Vigilante.

As soon as Saber flipped scum, I was immediately pretty sure that both Ruler was town, because I doubted a scum player would actually so brazenly defend 2 partners in a row.

And I don't need ruler as an excuse to want a foreigner flip anyways. Independent of everything else, foreigner has been my top scum read for a while.

[Servant Archer]

Archer, do you have any abilities that would prevent you from being added to a neighborhood?

No. I actually specifically said I wanted to be in a neighborhood, and was quite sad that no one remembered

Spoiler:

People are being real subtle here

Spoiler:

Do I need to wax poetic to make it known that I would happily accept such an offer?

[Servant Archer]

@Rider, I am ignoring you a bit. Really don't want to be drawn into a 1v1 with you -- especially since it appears that you have already completely discounted my own theory, so it seems a bit pointless.

[Servant Archer]

or potentially even scum-motivated.

Rider, please, I am begging you.

Please try to scum case me right now.

I would actually love to see how you could try to spin that

[Servant Archer]

I'd just like to state that my Noble Phantasm is a gated PT Cop.

Just in case people decide they want to run wild with making neighborhoods.

What does a "gated PT Cop" even mean? Like, you check to see if someone is in a PT?

Are you advocating we don't make neighborhoods?

[Servant Archer]

@Rider, been thinking on it. If we flip foreigner today, and he is town, I think I could be on board for an Avenger flip tomorrow.

[Servant Archer]

I am not trying to bribe you, I am just updating you on where I am at.

I equally feel like I can push a foreigner wagon through without you <3

[Servant Archer]

I will say that it feels strange to be presented as a misguided townie, when, if anything, I feel like I am on a bit of a hot streak this game.

I am the first person who called bs on Sabers campaign Day 0, and was actively campaigning against giving them the master as of post 99, and pushed for the Berserker wagon. As you put it:

Archer: Probably one of the most influential players regarding the Master selection phase.

----------

Then, when I gave a full read list in post 901 my scum reads were:

---Scum---
Moon Cancer
Saber
Foreigner

So I am batting a thousand so far there as well.

--------

So, I mean, I feel like I have at least somewhat of a solid grasp of the game state this game. So it feels a bit odd to be talked about as though I am just a lost townie -- whether you agree with my current read or not.

[Servant Archer]

Catching up.

My issue with the Avenger-scum hypothesis is that for it to be true, it supposes Titus was doing nothing but bussing on day 1 (she jumped on Avenger in the duel and pushed fairly hard on him), and I'm not sure why that is somehow more plausible than all 3 wagons day 1 being on scum. To dismiss one of those as implausible but not the other seems like questionable logic.

I think I might have over sold how certain I am that Avenger is town. Part of why I tried to walk it back to a more reasonable level in 1771.

I just think that foreigner makes more sense. Like the two options being presented are:

Foreigner is scum:

Moon Cancer who, (after being revealed) is a player that has little confidence in their scum game, and in prior games has taken somewhat of a defeatist attitude, agreed to a plan for them to be bussed Day 1 to give town cred to the stronger players in the team.

So, day 1 started with both Foreigner and Saber voting for Moon Cancer, and then pushing, and pushing in order to get the town cred.

The gladiate was completely unexpected, but they bothjumped on the Avenger wagon.

Once the gladiate was finished, Saber defaulted back to the "buss moon cancer" plan.

Once Moon Cancer flipped, they tried to capitalize on the bus, and tried to get that town cred

--------------------

Avenger is scum:

~Saber came out the gate joining on the Moon Cancer wagon, and pushed pretty hard there.
~Moon Cancer, counter voted back, and accused Saber of "scum claiming".
~Avenger voted the townie Foreigner for a counter wagon against the two other members of his team that were cross voting

Then, just before Saber got a chance to capitalize on the bus, Avenger decided to gladiate Foreigner to save Moon Cancer, and instead of helping Avenger push out Foreigner, Saber went hard on pushing Avenger.

And then, Avenger dropped the gladiate.

Saber went back to pushing Moon
Avenger decided to let Moon go down while still claiming he thought they were town

----------------

To me, option 1 looks like a scum team that has some semblance of a plan. Option 2 looks like a scum team that is all pulling in completely opposite directions.

I don't have a ton of experience with Titus, but from what I have seen, I feel like she would have had some semblance of a plan.

I would go as far as to say that there is already evidence this game that Titus was trying to coordinate plans in the scum chat, when you look at Day 0 and see Moon Cancer, Day 0, jumping on to the Saber 4 Master campaign when Titus thought she could win the master. Then Moon doing a full 180, and calling Saber scum once Titus realized she had lost the master (and that she would probably need to bus if she wanted to regain a footing in the game)

---------------

So yeah, foreigner being scum makes more sense to me.

I would no longer say that scum!Avenger is impossible, but would need to see more evidence for it -- such as foreigner flipping town in order to give me any evidence that a counter wagon was being made by the scum team

[Servant Archer]

The real comedy option is for all of Avenger, Rider, Ruler 1, and Ruler 2 to all be town, and this is just a game of "just how many town players can hard defend the scum team"

Like....

[Servant Archer]

The real comedy option is for all of Avenger, Rider, Ruler 1, and Ruler 2 to all be town, and this is just a game of "just how many town players can hard defend the scum team"

Like....

Says the player defending Avenger.

Question for you rider.

If we flipped Avenger today, and he flipped town -- where would you want to flip tomorrow?

[Servant Archer]

How about this? If no one claims a valid role-related reason to believe the Miller claim, we eliminate Avenger today. If someone does, we do what you want [which I presume is eliminating Foreigner].

What kind of reason could you possibly be fishing for?

We already have evidence that there are investigative roles in this game, simply from the fact that we have a confirmed townie who is immune to investigations.

[Servant Archer]

Like, people have said "I am surprised how many clears this set up can make" --- but like, having both a player immune to investigations and a player who is a miller is the counter to that.

[Servant Archer]

Catching up.

My issue with the Avenger-scum hypothesis is that for it to be true, it supposes Titus was doing nothing but bussing on day 1 (she jumped on Avenger in the duel and pushed fairly hard on him), and I'm not sure why that is somehow more plausible than all 3 wagons day 1 being on scum. To dismiss one of those as implausible but not the other seems like questionable logic.

What would be the issue with Titus bussing all her partners on Day 1? Her goal was to be elected and be removed from the game.

Do you think it's more likely that town will just listen to all her reads after they know she was scum all along, or question the validity of her reads?

@Rider -- Day 0 came before Day 1

So no, none of her Day 1 plays were built around the idea that she might get elected

(I get the feeling that maybe I am not the one with a poor grasp of the game state)

[Servant Archer]

Look back at your post 1824...

Alter Ego talked about things that Saber did Day 1.

You responded that those things made perfect sense because Saber planned on getting elected. -- Which clearly does not line up with the actual order of events.

Maybe it is less of your grasp on the game state (that was more of a light jab, in response to you completely dismissing my ideas as fantasy) and more that you just did not read Alter's post too closely before you decided to disagree with it.

[Servant Archer]

@Avenger -- can you expound upon your miller ability? Like, is it just for cop results, or?

[Servant Archer]

Archer, do you have any abilities that would prevent you from being added to a neighborhood?

@Shielder, is there a reason you asked me this?

[Servant Archer]

Rider, you seem more against a Foreigner flip then I would expect from just about anyone.

Like, I know I came out saying I was hard against an Avenger flip -- but I have since softened to the idea that if I am wrong, you are probably right.

I find it interesting that when I asked you if Avenger flipped town, where you would look next, that you were not equally interested in looking into the other option presented today (foreigner)

[Servant Archer]

I think both Archer and Rider have made good points today.

So, my proposed plan is that we kill both !!!

[Servant Archer]

I think both Archer and Rider have made good points today.

So, my proposed plan is that we kill both !!!

Obviously stopping if the first one flips scum.

And also, with a preference that we start with Foreigner

[Servant Archer]

Okay. Reasons I scum read foreigner (but I do not intend on doing an iso for links and such, just typing what I have been thinking)

Their day 0 play screamed scum to me. They seemed to be really tiptoeing around the decision, waiting to see which way the thread went before saying where they wanted to go. And when they did start sharing their thoughts, the way they appeared to be going about deciding who they wanted to get the master just did not seem very genuine.

I also feel like their moon caster vote could easily have been a bus vote (and think that the scum plan was for moon caster to be bussed), why I think this has already been talked about.

I also found it scummy the way that foreigner tried to get town cred for BOTH himself and for Saber following the Moon Caster flip. Like, as town, I get the motivation for trying to get your voice to be heard, but it seems really strange that he did not say "I caught Moon Cancer first" he instead said "me and Saber caught Moon Cancer first"

That last point is especially strange to me given the fact that prior to that point Foreigner had not been town reading Saber, and had at times made posts that looked like he was somewhat suspicious of them (which I now think were distancing posts)

Also, my issue today is mostly that I feel like people are discounting Avenger for very silly or outright poor reasons.

If it makes you feel any better, if foreigner does flip town, then obviously my idea for what the scum team was doing was wrong, and for me, Avenger will be back on the table.

I am not trying to say that I think Avenger should be off the table forever, just not the flip for today

[Servant Archer]

Does Avenger + Foreigner even make sense here? How much bussing is too much bussing for a scumteam?

I don't think anyone is arguing for that combination

[Servant Archer]

Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown

Caster was and is town,

Rider has been obvtowning for this entire day phase.

I will say that Caster has fallen in ranks among my reads, and is no longer above suspicious in my books.

They are not where I am wanting to look right now, but they are not in my lock town tier

The players that are never scum at this point, in my opinion are : Berserker, Archer, Lancer, Alter Ego, Shielder

[Servant Archer]

No thank you. I don't mind existing in the state of a perennial null read for the time being. Now if only someone could charge my NP up.

You know, if I had known what your actual NP was, instead of how you hinted at it as an "unstoppable cop clear" I think I would have believed it more (although, I understand the hesitancy for claiming it out right on a Day 0)

Not sure I would have preferred giving you the master over Notscience, but I might have asked Berskerer to give you an extra * so that you could neighborize me

[Servant Archer]

I am pretty sure it is.

What are your thoughts on Saber? You expressed a dislike of the lack of resistance to the master vote on them but haven't weighed in on the wagon on them.

haven't?

My NP is to shut down excessive stupid and pointless T v Ts by limiting the posting of one of the parties involved. Using it early ensures we get good focus and communication between town. It prevents scum from starting drama and trying to pin us against ourselves. Fighting amongst ourselves is how town lose games. I've seen it happen too many times over the years.

imagine being scum, who can claim anything and claim this crap or townie who thinks that this is the best thing for master
idk it feels like there would be some background plays in neighborhoods that no one informs us about, which caused this

There are enough better scums to burn but ppl prefer to follow them

So you think they're scummy but there are better votes? I don't understand why you're referring to background plays there. The statement you quoted makes you sound like you think they're dumb but not necessarily scum.

more like null, while others are scum

This was the sequence from foreigner I found rather bothersome in hindsight last night.

Yeah, this is what made it seem weird to me that he tried to give Saber partial credit for the Moon flip

[Servant Archer]

No thank you. I don't mind existing in the state of a perennial null read for the time being. Now if only someone could charge my NP up.

You know, if I had known what your actual NP was, instead of how you hinted at it as an "unstoppable cop clear" I think I would have believed it more (although, I understand the hesitancy for claiming it out right on a Day 0)

Not sure I would have preferred giving you the master over Notscience, but I might have asked Berskerer to give you an extra * so that you could neighborize me

So you’re not un-neighborizable?
I recall someone asked that about you before so I figure it’s good to clear it up

No, that was a (from my perspective) seemingly random question directed at me from Shielder. Although, they have said it has something to do with their abilities.

I would love to be put into a neighborhood tbh

[Servant Archer]

I don't think it's a vig shot,

Shielder defintely doesn't make sense and Ruler

was townread by everyone except Archer

?

I think my guess about scum being able to do an extra kill if they know your flavor/character name would make sense since Cabd did say it would be more important this go around.

I ended up with a town read there as well before the night ended -- decided that scum would not actually hard defend their partner to the lengths of self voting.

I think that the name thing is possible tho.

[Servant Archer]

Foreigner passing a tracker check is a good look.... hmmm....

UNVOTE:

I don't think that it is a conclusive hard clear tho. Because his partner could have done the scum kill, or he could have a ninja ability.

But that is enough for me to stop and think again.

[Servant Archer]

@Beast, wish you had waited to reveal the tracker result until after asking Foreigner to claim any abilities he might have used last night

[Servant Archer]

I watch beast, no visits

@Beast, can you tell me what kind of investigative ability you used?

I thought it was a tracker, but you did not see him move for this?

[Servant Archer]

@Rider -- beast has claimed an investigative ability that if it can determine if someone tried to kill, I imagine it would interact with a miller claim