Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[massive]

vote: sekinj

Whatever happened to usernames that were sensible and comprehendable, and not just a random mashup of letters? I have players in my Newbie game named things like "vvvnuasd" and "f$Hjf". Preposterous.

[massive]

Man, and I thought random-voting on this site had gotten bad in the 12-person games.

[massive]

I don't think random voting is bad. I think random voting is a necessary and vital part of Day One. I used to have this big long thing I'd post in Newbie games about why random voting was good. But I think five pages may be excessive. It's like watching twelve-year-olds all doped up on Red Bull and Smarties.

Just sayin'. I mean, it may just be that I'm an old fart.

[massive]

My favorite part came when tajo defended against his random out-of-the-blue role claim by informing us that it was actually a null tell. I wish I had that "these aren't the droids you're looking for" power. Or, at least, if I was tajo, I'd wish I had one that worked.

vote populartajo

[massive]

VLA through the 19th.

[massive]

I ... wait, how is it that we haven't won yet? Geezus.

This game is ringing up more dead scum than Elliot Ness.

[massive]

It's my first "big game" in a very long time and ... well, here, I'll admit it: You all are too random for me. The younger generation has become a string of injokes and pure luck and not real mafia hunting skills. I can't even tell you why we lynched the people we lynched. I know that the mafias have been doing all the town's work, though.

skitzer

: With five of the eight deaths in the game being bad guys, do you still worry about winning the game?

[massive]

This post is very condescending. You comment that no one is displaying “real” mafia hunting skills. Yet you have done EXACT JACK, to scum hunt. It is very obvious why Emp was lynched yesterday. It has nothing to do with in jokes (which I have not seen in this game passed the random vote stage). You also state you “know” that the mafia have been doing all the town’s work. How would you know that? With 4 kills it is a good assumption that we have a SK and a vig too. How do you know which are mafia’s kill and which are not?
Why are you not scum hunting? Show this generation how grandpa does it, but start by answering my questions..

I think that arguing that the mafia is NOT doing the town's work is rather ridiculous in the face of the record of the town (2 lynches, 2 townies) versus the night kill record (6 kills, 5 bad guys). If you add in the likelihood that the vig didn't shoot night one, then you have exactly ONE death you can attribute to a pro-town player.

I've done "exact Jack" to hunt scum because I've been offsite for about eighteen of the 33 days this game has been going on. I guess you guys DO need Grandpa to show you how it's done.

[massive]

I was taking the time to actually re-read the entire thread, rather than post and say "Back now, going to re-read" like, oh, about six other players have, and then vanished again.

ckd

: Do you believe that the Mafia made at least two of the kills we had last night?

Here's where my thoughts are at:

BlakAdder

: Right now, his ties to the Japanese Mafia can't be ignored. He tried defending Stef on Day One and was defended by sekinj on Day Two. The discrepancy between sekinj's "bah" post (547) and BlakAdder's "well I guess we're done with the Japanese mafia" post (554) is really striking -- almost like he knows that all of his suspicion relies on him being tied to the Japanese mafia, and if he can convince enough people they're gone, he's not suspicious any more.

ShadowGirl

: Has somehow avoided both townie lynches. Has been more of an "Information Not Analysis" player, although has been absent for portions of the game. Also has been very "helpful" at the end of both lynches, being sure to provide vote counts as both lynches approached. So she's definitely paying SOME attention.

EA

: He switched from Cybele to Rush at the beginning of today. His vote (559) implies that something about Rush's voting pattern was done to protect BlakAdder. If Rush and BlakAdder are part of the same team, they would have to be Greek mafia together, which would mean that most of the suspicion on BlakAdder would be circumstantial. That being said, I'd still like to hear Rush's answer to the question.

I'm sure there's some information to be had in (411) (Electra's "suspicious/not" post) but I'd like second and third sets of eyes on it.

I don't like Cybele's content, especially after she called ME out on content, and I don't like how Sierra managed to fly under the radar on Day Two after so many people decried that "one of tajo and Sierra are scum".

And I'd like to revisit this:

Wait, hold on; before we decide to lynch Empking, don't you think it's possible he's a Jester? Would Dead Rikamaru be the type to add one to his game? Empking is, IMO, playing very much like a Jester. He's trying to get lynched, obviously; the insults are blantantly stupid and everyone is following along in step.

Thanks for claiming scum, we'll deal with you tomorrow. (Seriously, bringing up a Jester on top of a pure-setup-speculation post at the beginning of the day and major lurkage thereafter? Like hell you're town.)

... because I definitely agree with that.

[massive]

I could follow you on to armlx, CKD.

[massive]

vote Seraphim

Yes, I know, being replaced, blah blah blah, but I went back and re-read the night scene and in it, it indicates that Tar tracked the person who killed sekinj. That coupled with the post I quoted (Tar clearly thought Seraphim was scum and ready to lynch him today) makes him a decent candidate to have been tracked.

[massive]

Tarhalindur expressed his suspicions of Seraphim in [482]. It seems logical to assume that, as a tracker, he would have followed Seraphim to confirm his suspicions.

Can anyone who's spoken about Dead's night scenes explain why they have a problem with me being suspicious of Seraphim from it, but didn't have a problem letting Sierra go on about determining which party made which kill based on information from the night scene?

[massive]

I also didn't FoS the hammer because I found populartajo to be superscummy.

If you found pop to be superscummy, why do I get an FOS for my "late vote"?

[massive]

If I hadn't known my alignment when reading, I'd have called Sera anti-town.

Is there something in your alignment that precludes you from calling Seraphim anti-town?

[massive]

If we believe that there is the possibility of a fourth Japanese Mafia member, we should clearly go back to BA, since he was easily the scummiest person over the first three days (that's still alive).

[massive]

Of course I'm willing to vote for anyone. I've already expressed that I have suspicions about at least three people, what they are, and this thread needs more lynching and less standing around looking at people.

The front page doesn't indicate who you're replacing, gorckat, so I'm assuming Seraphim. Want to put the OMGUS in front of your vote?

unvote, vote ShadowGirl

Her helpful vote counts pre-both-lynches coupled with her joy of the previous night's events are a desperate attempt to appear townie. I don't believe a townie needs to do that.

[massive]

Please point out where I've indicated I'm willing to vote for anyone. I'm pretty sure I've only voted for people I've found suspicious, and have given reasons in every instance. Hrm.

[massive]

People need to be able to read sarcasm on the internetz. That quote was a direct response to someone already saying "he could vote for anyone" and I made sure I pointed out that I was suspicious of three people. I mean, you should have been able to figure that out when I tell gorckat he needs an OMGUS in front of his vote. Maybe that's just me.

[massive]

I believe Seraphim/gorckat is a good candidate for Tar's final night choice. He publicly decried Seraphim/gorckat as scum and it seems logical that he'd verify it. Do you disagree?

The ShadowGirl vote is because, as I said in my vote post, she's been doing her level best to appear helpful and "townie"-ish without actually participating overmuch. My post (8) has the exact same opinion.

I didn't "get flak" for my vote on Seraphim/gorckat that I can see; I moved my vote because, of the numerous people I find suspicious (outlined, again, in my post (8)), ShadowGirl actually seemed like a possibility of a lynch.

[massive]

Sierra

: While I agree that it is guesswork on my part, I also believe that Tar's statement immediately prior to night ("bringing up a Jester on top of a pure-setup-speculation post at the beginning of the day and major lurkage thereafter", Tar's post [26]) is a good reason to at least give Seraphim/gorckat attention.

I understand that no one seems to think I actually have reasons for voting ShadowGirl, But to say I'm doing it to avoid being the leading bandwagon is kinda far-fetched ... especially since, at that time, I had one vote and ShadowGirl had one vote (if my math skillz are correct).

[massive]

Sorry all, just started a new job and completely blanked this entire site from my memory. I'm back. I see I'm still the leading candidate. Any questions I'm not answering?

[massive]

ShadowGirl

: Can you please explain why you are suspicious of my posting practices in this game (as stated in [788]) when you yourself agree that you've done essentially the same thing in [790]?

farside22

: Clearly you've not read any of my other posts, where I discuss who I'm suspicious of and why. And maybe you can explain why it's bad to vote for someone that (a) I'm suspicious of and (b) might get lynched? I mean, isn't that the whole point of the game?

[massive]

Sure, but while you've been "keeping up", your participation is still on par with mine. *shrug* I guess it's apples and oranges.

[massive]

ShadowGirl

: I posted sporadically at best, and no one is arguing that point.

It would be quite ironic to be lynched due to the gross non-participation of others.

[massive]

And I think it's much more interesting to continue to follow ShadowGirl's game play over the first two days.

[massive]

All four Mafia groups still alive? That means BA is scum at least.

vote BA

[massive]

Oh seriously, obviously I meant "all 4 killing groups." If you really think I'm intimating that there are 4 mafia groups, you are using blatant opportunism and have quickly risen in my "likely to also be scum" list.

[massive]

I think it's because I look "lynchable" ... as LlamaFluff pointed out, lynching a townie and multiple non-Greek deaths ends in a Greek victory, and as you watch people stream onto and then off of me, you get the very distinct feeling that, since I had suspicion on me yesterday (and was in the duel), that I am an easy target. That's my impression.

I think that EA's kills, while turning out to be beneficial to the town, were not made with the best town intentions. I've previously voted for Seraphim and would happily vote for Niv, so I guess we're just waiting.

[massive]

You know, if BA *is* the last Japanese scum, we will have seen quite the number of self-serving scummy votes leading up to his lynch.

[massive]

Of interest. Please explain very clearly what you mean to imply with this post.
I may or may not hold it against you.

Oh sure. Given the number of people who have said that (1) they believe EA is a killer but not the vig and (2) then vote for BA, it seems to me that there are more people interested in finding (what feels like) an opposing Mafia member than an SK. It's not just you. farside22 did the exact same thing.

[massive]

Lynching EA (a known and admitted killer) vs. lynching BA (an unknown but probably commodity) ... how is one MORE likely to get rid of a night kill, and why are you backing the wrong one?

[massive]

Seem to fit that description perfectly, in my eyes. He also lists things he 'finds suspicious' about three others. Then makes the above post. Then votes Seph, who wasn't one of those three- based on truly horrific reasoning. Then goes to SG.

Then of course, there's these - from consecutive posts no less-

Of course I'm willing to vote for anyone.

Please point out where I've indicated I'm willing to vote for anyone.

While I am not saying the vote on Seph was well reasoned, I do think its the correct vote so am probably giving it some deserved slack. The quote of "I am willing to vote for anyone" is being exaggerated a bit though. I dont think that it was everyone in the extent of every player, but everyone as in anyone he is suspicious of (SG, Seph, BA, EA, armlx). This is something for massive to clarify though.

Huh. You'd think that this (a) hadn't been brought up before and (b) my retort to this obvious (and poor) attempt at misconstruing my comments wouldn't be my Next Exact Post. But of course, Fonzie, you probably already knew that since you knew those two comments were consecutive.

But kudos for the chop-job on the first quote. Just to reiterate, the whole quote is:

Of course I'm willing to vote for anyone. I've already expressed that I have suspicions about at least three people, what they are, and this thread needs more lynching and less standing around looking at people.

I think one can infer that I am specifically talking about the people I am suspicious of, and that I am willing to shift my vote onto any of them because I have actual reasons to want to lynch them. In fact, the second quote (which you also cut up):

Please point out where I've indicated I'm willing to vote for anyone. I'm pretty sure I've only voted for people I've found suspicious, and have given reasons in every instance. Hrm.

You want to argue with the WHY's of my votes, fine, but to imply that I'm just billowing in the wind waiting for a bandwagon is ludicrous. And using chopped-up quotes is even worse.

It appears, however, that it's

en vogue

to misrepresent my comments. "Oh noez he'll vote anyone!" "Oh noez he knows there are four Mafia groups!" Puhleez. I do think it's funny, Fonzie, that you are doing your level best to misrepresent me in this vein after calling EA out for doing the same thing in [1000].

[massive]

So obvscum it isn't even funny.

Yeah, I mean, it makes it apparent WHY LlamaFluff would have a read on Greek mafia and townie but can't get a read on BA.

unvote
vote LlamaFluff

[massive]

If somehow ShadowGirl does NOT get lynched for her play in this game, we will be able to point back to it as an example of "how to lurk in Mafia games when you're Mafia without getting caught." Because man is she writing the book on it.

[massive]

Gr. This sucks that you guys have been able to get on; I haven't been able through the weekend. Will go back and re-read everything that happened but I am NOT the SK.

[massive]

Yeah! GET OFF MY LAWN!

@Massive: If you think I'm scum then vote me, that's all there is to it.

The problem with that oh-so-brave stance is that, at that exact point in time, no one was going to follow me onto you. With so many killing parties and so many scum to go, it doesn't pay for me to have blinders on. I can think you're scum while still thinking other people are scum.

The part in bold is an odd thing to say. It seems like what mafia bussing a scum partner.

Were you saying, in this post, that it was possible that LlamaFluff was bussing BA because they were scum partners?

I don't like massive.

You know, if BA *is* the last Japanese scum, we will have seen quite the number of self-serving scummy votes leading up to his lynch.

The above is queer. Note the emphasis on *is*, it makes no sense. What is implied here is that greek would be more interested in lynching jap. In itself that is a reasoning I can see, only this reasoning is independent of whether BA turns up Jap or not, because presumably greek can't know who's jap or not, unless in case of mafiacop knowledge of which would be suspicious.

I'm not explaining this very well but I hope you get my point: there is something that doesn't fit in massive's reasoning. And my guess is that it is a scumslip and that massive is prolly greek himself and that he is distancing from an action that could be perceived as greek hence the faulty reasoning.

Well, first, to clarify my emphasis: I merely type how I talk. And I think there was quite a bit of speculation and discussion about how BA fits as the last Japanese mafia; maybe it was before you replaced. You should find it. You could start with him explicitly saying (and I'm paraphrasing) "Welp, looks like the Japanese are all dead, good job kids!" and then we had another Japanese kill the next night.

I do think, at this point, that the Greeks have to be interested in clearing out the other killing parties. Parity is not their friend right now -- they can't afford to trade one of their kills for three unknowns. They have numbers and they want to keep it that way. If BA is the last Japanese scum, and a lot of people believe that is possible, then I would expect Greek scum to jump on the chance to lynch him.

Please explain the "faulty reasoning."

@Massive/EA - Is SG or BA more likely scum?

I don't necessarily agree with the EA/LF interpretation of BA's recent activities, and in any case, it's not enough to overcome the string of scummy Japanese-related things he's done. BUT he can only be Japanese in my mind -- SG could be either. Mathematically then I guess SG is more likely scum.

[massive]

I've officially replaced you, i'm doing you a favour.

Sorry, just havin' a bit of fun after all the Grandpa nonsense.

I suppose I'll ask this question first: at the time, how likely did you think I was scum?

I've had a very strong scum vibe on you since day one. And since my last post, it doesn't seem like you're trying to deny it -- more like you're trying to figure out which kind of scum we think you are.

unvote
vote ShadowGirl

[massive]

I'm confused about why you would have changed your Night 1 investigation away from BA, but then came out swinging at him the morning of Day 2.

[massive]

I'm vanilla town.

[massive]

Jahudo: Knowing that Jebus had lied in his investigation results, why didn't you kill him last night?