Updates to Bastard Tags

[Something_Smart]

raw takes reading this post:

• mafia mutations can be a toggle, but it probably doesn't have to be. this stuff is already generally announced ahead of time.
  
• I don't know about anyone else, but cult falls squarely into what I think of when I hear bastard, if only because it's way more common than other types of lies. Redirector and cult also do not belong in the same class of roles.
  
• "does your game feature alignment-changing or non-standard mechanics?" seems like a terrible question because it's a very specific thing paired with a very general thing.
  
• I think TLich most cleanly separates what I see as bastard vs. non-bastard; their 2 & 3 (but not 1) together constitute a pretty good definition of bastard.

Were there any concrete examples given of games where people expected more or less bastardry than was present in the game?

[Something_Smart]

I feel like most people don't answer the bastard question with "yes" unless it's something like EIAL. But it seems fine to codify the different things that mods should disclose.

If I had to take a crack at it, I would say maybe:
- Curveballs (I would call jester and janitor this. Not an explicit lie, but these break unspoken rules such as "nobody wants to be executed" or "alignments of dead players will always be known". Unsure if redirector belongs in here, but framer definitely would)
- Alignment changes
- Mod lies (I would group these two together, but it seems like there's some support to keep them separate. This is like unreliable cops, any sort of false/hidden roles or mechanics, incorrect flips, or mod-provided information that's wrong outside of reasonable expectations like ninja)
- Outside influence (Nonrandom role assignment, direct mod interference in the game, etc) - If this box is ticked then the mod should disclose exactly what's going on; I really struggle to imagine a game that would benefit from having this but not having the players know what exactly

[Something_Smart]

I don't think I'm exactly keen on any of the suggested divisions but it's definitely on the right track

This is the big glaring problem with doing this.

Everyone has slightly different ideas of what exactly counts as bastard.

[Something_Smart]

My understanding is that it doesn't really matter if or how the "bastard" tag applies to publicly known mechanics-- for instance, if a game includes a cult and this is known, you don't have to say "this is bastard", you can just say "this has a cult" and everyone will get the correct message.

I feel like it's kinda splitting hairs to ask these types of questions. If your game has one scum draft their partners pregame, then the proper answer to "is it bastard?" is not "yes" or "no", it's "one scum can draft their partners in pregame." Since it's public info anyway, people should get it up-front so they can best decide whether they want to join.

I'm not the one in charge of this, since players in my queue always know exactly what they're getting anyway, so this is just my $0.02 on the matter.