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VOTE: idiot ivan
who are you?

Captain ivan vorpatril, obviously

Also hi everyone!

Also VOTE: rogue hi:)

Also regular vla on fridays and saturdays

, and for the next few days, i suppose

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Peace offering: I promise never to vote LLD prior to D3-at-earliest (barring guilties on her). I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on it, and the proxy vote is proof of commitment to this promise.

ok, why

and <3 to you too pooky

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ok um just acknowledging that i see your response and while i have ~thoughts~ i'm not sure i really want to comment on it

how serious is 20?

~

pooky are we gonna play charades this game?

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lol
g'luck, i would utterly hate that

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you've got a post restriction too?
only images?

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i think yours might be fake @pookydra but i am amused so carry on

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i like bombay thus far

rogue this is notsci posting, yes?

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townread is probably a little strong, more like it's p3 and i have Good Vibes Thus Far

same with that idiot ivan, i forgot to say

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townread is probably a little strong, more like it's p3 and i have Good Vibes Thus Far

same with that idiot ivan, i forgot to say

Eh we can call it a townread now

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SirCakez is concerning.

Hmmm, why?

Also curious abt the chess game

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SirCakez is concerning.

Hmmm, why?

Also curious abt the chess game

Short answer is none of his posts read to me as coming from an 'I received a town role PM' mindset. But early days.

Eh at this stage not sure that's ai for him

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I kinda like the mala half of rogue
Not sure abt notsci's half

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Idk if marci goes along with such a fake post restriction tbh

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I mean ... maybe? Not sure i see it, and not sure luke would do that to her

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Also idk i wouldnt have necessarily expected a post restriction either, even if its like ~thematic~ or whatever

Pedit yeah

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I mean you said something interesting (that i also think is kinda silly), so i responded, yes

Not sure what's strange abt that, but noting the vague shade

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Maybe a flavor claim would be in order

Meh not sure i like this suggestion either

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I mean ... maybe? Not sure i see it, and not sure luke would do that to her

I'm going to say that I'm very interested in pursuing this if only because before it could even get to their response on the topic, 2 people jumped in the way of the speeding train for this one.

Not that I'm sure what kind of alignment that provides you, but it is extremely strange for me.

Ok, sure
What are the interesting implications of 2 people jumping in the way of the speeding train, and why is strange?

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Lmao that's great

Ngl half the reason i signed up for this game is to see what cabdffery would come up with :)

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Ok ... so shade? The implication of that post is that you think its somewhat scum-indicicative that me and jjh piped in (possibly with bombay)

Also why would scum want to step in front of the speeding train, especially in the town-bombay universe

Also i kinda hate 134

Also bombay/lld are not scum together

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While i dont love jjh's posting either, tbf 119 was like 30 seconds after my 118 so not sure he was really basing it off me

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Also why would scum want to step in front of the speeding train, especially in the town-bombay universe

Also, followup, do you think *scum-me* chooses to step in front of this speeding train?

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VOTE: The Bombay
(proxy-LLD, but also, scumread anyway, readslist next post)

Why do u scumread them?

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I don't think their reads are genuine. Their reads all look faked, surface-level, and forced. It looks more like trying to appear as scumhunting, rather than being genuine scumhunting.

Should have continued reading >.>
Ok, can you show an example of a read that you feel is faked and why it seems forced to you?

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I mean ought i be townreading you thus far?

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Well this head and heart says no thus far

(Not to say i scumread you either, just dont see anything to townread)

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Nai, was thinking the same thing last night at some point

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Ok ... so shade? The implication of that post is that you think its somewhat scum-indicicative that me and jjh piped in (possibly with bombay)

Also why would scum want to step in front of the speeding train, especially in the town-bombay universe

Also i kinda hate 134

Also bombay/lld are not scum together

Also why would scum want to step in front of the speeding train, especially in the town-bombay universe

Also, followup, do you think *scum-me* chooses to step in front of this speeding train?

@lld when you have a chance can i get a response to these posts plz?

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When did you start townreading me @lld?

(Ftr i've not read the lld/dwlee stuff, and probably wont until this evening)

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I mean you said something interesting (that i also think is kinda silly), so i responded, yes

Not sure what's strange abt that, but noting the vague shade

Not really shade, more a general observation that you and JJH both stepped into a line of questioning, resulting in a lessening of pressure.

I've made the same observation every time this has happened before, I think you may have even seen me make this observation before.

Ok so i just want to discuss why i hate this post:
- 126 was absolutely shade, as basically acceded in 139, as the implication was 'people getting in the way of lld's inquiry of bombay' are scummy
- so i really dislike the first paragraph, because its trying to walk back the shade and reframe as a 'general observation' that doesnt necessarily have scum implications after i called that out
- the second paragraph i find oddly conciliatory and defensive, which i find curious because her reason to townread me comes from a later post i made (142, 148)

VOTE: lld

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I asked for flavor claim because there were people clamoring that the post restriction made no sense. It also doesn't contain any role info so not sure why you'd suspect I want that as scum.

My reads list isn't a reads list, it's a PoE but okay

And yea I started the game memeing a bit because I had just woke up from an hour and a half long nap

For those reading along, Dwlee instavotes me after I vote them and then offers this rebuttal to my reads.

They say that there is no value to be obtained in asking for a flavour claim, but that isn't true. This is a UPick gane, roles will match flavour in some manner and even if you think that is speculation, Bombay confirmed as much that it did before the claim. So it isnt speculation.

Claiming a PoE list isn't a reads list is a straight up deflection. It literally is a reads list. I can confidently say that if we killed those 6 people, I don't feel confident we win the game. That is a problem for your alignment. Saying it isn't a reads list is just disingenuous.

Giving a weak reason for why you are faffing about is ridiculous. Not only is your RL not confirmable it is also irrelevant. You are choosing to make posts that contain little more purpose than to connection build over posts that solve the game.

And it is the fact that you are essentially not solving and then generated a name of 6 people that is the problem. The act itself wouldn't be bad if the reads were good but they aren't. And without a cognitive consistency to follow to how you got to those reads, my read on you is that you threw that list of names together prepared to generate post facto reasoning for any of them upon request.

Between the OMGUS vote and the wholistic approach you are taking to the game, you read heavily like scum.

i don't really like lld's dwlee push and feel like a lot of these criticisms are overblown given the stage of hte game. in particular i don't find the 'faffing about' to be ai, and the issue with the poe readslist / not solving seems premature given that we're on p10
i'm also not sure how serious the poe even was to begin with ..

i don't really have a problem with dwlee thus far, not sure why they're the leding wagon

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Not conciliatory, evidence. The purpose of the line was to force you to accept that this has been my position on this topic regardless of my alignment for years to remove that aspect from the conversation.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here Tbh. It isn't shade because it is me trying to read you directly. I am applying pressure directly and then reading from that. The goal of the exercise was to get a read on you and I did.

I'm not really sure what is shady about that. There is nothing underhanded about it at all?

Like can you define shade for me in this context actually?

Or if you prefer I can define how I interpreted it first for you. Because this didn't feel like a case of interpretation and more a case of... Well being frank it just felt obviously not shady?

Like I really don't get it

- wrt conciliatory: fair enough, i think i read it in a different manner than you intended
- wrt the shade: 126 felt vaguely threatening-y in that you were suggesting a scumread on people who you felt were interfering with the bombay push. given that you'd said one of the more interesting/game-related things in the game thus far, it seems a little ??? to me that you'd find it scum-indicative for people to comment there (as i think that's a natural thing for people to do), and it felt like a 'back off and don't interfere or i will scumread you' post, which didn't seem to match the context imo

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the chess game siwtching upside down on each turn is slightly disorienting, making an observation that it seems possibly vaguely related to t3

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It was that Bombay had not even commented yet themselves before you stepped in, if that wasn't clear I apologize.

It's not "never comment on this" it's "why are you commenting on this before I even see how Bombay reacts to the pressure?" which is why I indicated it was scum indicative (it has often been) to have that happen. The point of the message was to say I have my eyes on you for doing that specific thing, and see how you (and JJH) responded to it. It's less like... "you're not allowed to comment, so be quiet!" and more "okay, so you chose to comment before Bombay, giving them an easy out to lean on you (and JJH) making the pressure on that slot useless. Let's use the momentum and redirect to still try and learn something.

ok, fair enough, and i appreciate you takign the time to explain
that was the vibe i got tho and that's why it felt like shade - a vague general 'your actions are scum indicative' when i'm not sure 'commenting on the bombay push before they responded' really is

~
irregardless of that i also don't really like either of your bombay or dwlee pushes so i'm fairly content with my vote for rn

pedit ah makes sense

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Fwiw i know nothing abt chess and my theory is that its two people playing, perhaps someone picked something like r/anarchychess, which would be fun
@lld on phone now but i talked abt the dwlee thing right before the post where i talked abt the shade thing

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hmmm maybe, i feel like it's player controlled
maybe someone picked r/anarchychess and someone else picked r/chess and they have been pitted in a chess match against each other

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mastina i gotta say i disagree with you on the bombay's reads looking forced, and i'm not really into this whole vote-proxy thing either

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SirCakez is concerning.

Hmmm, why?

Also curious abt the chess game

why do you always go to bat for me?

cuz i know that town-you can get pushed easily so don't want you to get pushed for stuff that looks bad but isn't necessarily scummy for u

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i don't get it / see it, but as i already said i don't know why people are scumreading you rn so

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@dwlee i'm gonna be honest i'm not sure what you're referring to
@t3 i meant the chess game in general seems to do with you, not the fact that it's turning upside down, that was worded poorly

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uh @dwlee still not sure what you're getting at, the closest 2 posts that i can find are these 2

i know that cakez was scum but i'm gonna be honest i dont' remember your part in that game much at all

unless you're saying that it's scum-indicative that cakez is scumreading you, i'm really not sure where you're going with this

Spoiler:

Subject: Open 816: C9++ || Game Over

dwlee what's your cakez experience to the point you feel you can make this BoP argument

also just didn't expect that kind of thing from you considering how ardently anti-meta you were earlier in the game

-b

I played with him years and years ago and we generally were decent at figuring out when we were town. Okay, actually, cakez would just always think I was town when he was town from what I remember. I don't really consider BoP the same thing as meta, it's just kind of like cakez please be better at playing this game and figuring it out (which kind of exists for everyone), and I think that town!cakez would have a smaller PoE but he has to include me because otherwise there aren't enough miselims for him to win.

This changed because [redacted]

Subject: Open 816: C9++ || Game Over

VOTE: dwlee
Regardless it seems super scum motivated

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I'm gonna have to rereview since i dont remember tbh, but later

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Iirc you pushed me and I had a tilt defense there which is what I was getting at

i've skimmed both my iso and your iso and i have no idea what that game has to do with this one, so can you elaborate a bit more?

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like what's the point of this ...

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i think we spent a fair portion of the game mutually scumreading each other, doesn't look like there was any OMGUS tho
what does this have to do with a 'full tilt defense'?

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contains multiple red flags wrt their alignment.

Also can I point out how completely bullshit this is

My first like... Ten posts. NAI. I played chess with RVS'd, played chess with t3, and then talked about the bread I was eating at 3am. I don't believe you believe this at all

he called this post the 'full tilt defense', which i took to be a description of how you're objecting to lld saying you're 'faffing' for the beginning of your iso, and thought it had nothing to do with the omgus

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I think my brain isn't lining up with your brain right now it's okay

fair enuf, i think the same thing >.>

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Feel better mala and take it easy <3

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Eh not convinced - what if 2 townies picked chess themed subreddits?

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Fwiw i am not

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I am feeling a little more ???? after my convo with dwlee last night i will say ...
Dwlee where *did* your poe come from?

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Rogue
T3
Lady Lambdadelta
That Idiot Ivan
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Shiro

I may have solved the game as well

I'm gonna be honest when i originally saw this i thought it was so ???? as to be an rvs-stage meme / had that level of seriousness

The fact that you're sticking by it tho is kinda ??? for me because like half of thise names i had townpings on at that point, and i'm not really sure what you're seeing to exclude the rest

[skitter30]

Rogue
T3
Lady Lambdadelta
That Idiot Ivan
skitter30
Shiro

I may have solved the game as well

I'm gonna be honest when i originally saw this i thought it was so ???? as to be an rvs-stage meme / had that level of seriousness

The fact that you're sticking by it tho is kinda ??? for me because like half of thise names i had townpings on at that point, and i'm not really sure what you're seeing to exclude the rest

It's super early but some good guesses I think. I went through why I excluded each person I did in 399 if you want to respond to that. I will also point out that half that list has to be town, so if you think half is town I could still be dead on accurate (which is unlikely, but still)

Ok i guess a few thoughts on this:
- you're acting like you presently think you're wrong on me (i.e. you're acting like you're townreading me now)
- the second sentence is silly, of course at least half of any 6 names is gonna be town (assiming 3 scum etc), so of course you can still be right technically but that isnt like a massive accomplishment or anything ...
- is this still your poe presently? I saw u would take me out and add poodydra but anything else?

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I want to say that besides for the times i cant tell what they're drawing, pookydra is doing a p decent job communicating

Possible to indicate somehow who's talking tho?

Also i dont really have a problem with jjh, saw a few people getting ponged by him

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Ok i guess a few thoughts on this:
- you're acting like you presently think you're wrong on me (i.e. you're acting like you're townreading me now)
- the second sentence is silly, of course at least half of any 6 names is gonna be town (assiming 3 scum etc), so of course you can still be right technically but that isnt like a massive accomplishment or anything ...
- is this still your poe presently? I saw u would take me out and add poodydra but anything else?

I'm saying you townreading half my poe doesn't actually mean it's wrong. Cause the other half can still be scum and I didn't wrongly clear anyone. I think right now I'd consider adding you to my list of exclusions but I'm not actually all the way there yet. Pooky hydra is hard to read if he won't actually post but I still actually feel slightly better there than with you.

- i was saying that i was townreading half of your poe to indicate that i thought it was a random hodgepodge of names (and thus not a 'real' poe / not a serious poe), not really to comment on the rightness or wrongness of it or your accuracy
- how are you getting anything ai out of pookydra?

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I'm kinda scumreading mastina

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Your first bulletpoint makes me think you didn't think about why I'm townreading those slots yet. I've gone over each, but you didn't talk about those reasons or interact with those. Your second bulletpoint also makes me think this

I did, and think your reasons are p flat and uninspiring, and dont really have anything to say on any of them. The only ones i kinda agreed with were bombay and jjh, the rest were p empty

The one i'm most interested in is pookydra, and want to know if there's anything more to this read than 'vague townping because of a hectic alt somewhere' and 'if the pr is real its probably town' (why?)
Are you getting anythibg ai out of what they're actually communicating?

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In particular, for mastina:

- i strongly dislike her bombay read (i think all of their reads are fine, and i think she's ignoring the context of multiple rickrolls to call bombay's rogue vote 'bad' when it makes sense in context. Feels to me kinda like she's ignoring the context to push the read)

- some of her other reads feel someehat premature to me (ex: the one on rogue), but this doesnt bother me as much as the bombay one

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Strange and cake have towntold further after I posted my initial townreads of them. Do you not agree with that?

I don't think I've seen scum get post restrictions ever? It seems like just giving scum a reason to post worse which ruins day play.

But I also don't think scum!pooky wants to give up agency to post in hardly decipherable images

I agree with strange, i dont really have an opinion on cakez, and am not sure i saw him town telling, can u pull a few posts where you think he did?

Wrt the bolded - very fair actually, i didnt think of that. Although tbf if ydra didnt really want to *tryhard* as scum rn i can kinda see a universe where they land on this as a 'solution' so to speak

For your other point:
- i feel like you were making a big point last night of trying to make some sort of comparison from that game to this one, and were asking for some sort of ~response~ from me, so was trying to understand what you were getting at, so that's what i was trying to do last night
- and my opinion is kinda changing on you, and i now do at least understand the reasons people are scumreading you. At the same time, i am not convinced you're scum, for a few reasons (* gonna asterisk this and address this later down), so i'm trying to understand more what u were thinking at the time of the infamous poe
- despite that, i'm not really planning on voting u rn, i am not as convinced of my lld scumread anymore, i am thinking of switching to mastina

~
* reasons i'm not convinced dwlee is scum:
- i think they can make up better reasons to tr people, especially when they got pushback on cakez/stranger: the explanations later (on mastina, bombay, etc) were not much better, and i think they *would* be better if they were scum
- i think 228 is nai for them
- not sure their immediate reaction to the lld push is omgus (tbf i am not as confident on this point as some of the others)

Also just generally i'm not sure i'm vibing with the wagon overall rn

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Do you think mastina veers so far from 'popular' opinion? As I said, I'm having trouble separating my dislike of some NAI stuff from her versus her gameplay, but the actual relevant content doesn't look agenda-driven. What are you seeing, if you're up for discussing more about it?

For the first question: idk her personally well enuf to say, but why not?

For the second question: sure we can discuss, what do i want to talk abt?

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As a result of the chess game, Dwlee should be eliminated.

Very curious

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I am so confused

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@skitter I think cakez seems to genuinely think I'm scum and I think he'd have a worse time of it as scum

Where were u going with the whole 'full tilt defense' thing ... if i had understood the reference, what were you expecting out of me?

(This is relevant to cakez)

And ig we'll see what happens with this chess thing ...

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Ok so that was abt you and not abt cakez?
Like you were trying to get me to recognize that could be town-indicative and/or ai for you?

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I kind of want to town bin T3 for 483 and 490.

Same

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Ok so that was abt you and not abt cakez?
Like you were trying to get me to recognize that could be town-indicative and/or ai for you?

Yes, cause I thought you'd remember it

Ok thanks
I'm not really convinced that his read on you is real, but i do think you think its real

But i think you can think that as either alignment

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@skitter, the ignoring context part of The Bombay's vote: is that something scum hang their reads hat on? I need to look back at event sequence too, but I think mastina's Bombay read came after the LLD push on them had moved on; if she's scum reigniting that wagon it was a poor attempt. mastina-scum here would need to be...straw-grasping? Which begs the question why

I believe the timeline was:
- lld declared a scumread and pushed bombay
- mastina proxies the vote, and says she *independantly* scumreads them as well 171 and gives the initial explanation in 177
- lld moves on
- mastina gets questions abt it, and justifies the read further (incidentally in the same post she switches to dwlee)

I think that once she gave the explanation, she kinda had to stick with it even if lld moved on
I'm not sure why she felt the need to say she had independant reasons (maybe she didnt want to look like she sheeping lld too much? Idk) in the first placr, but once she did i think she just kinda followed along that trajectory, especially because she got questions abt it

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I'm kinda wondering if 'winning the chess game' means something different than it usually does here

I do think t3 is town and i maybe (?) see where the dwlee suspicion comes from? As i write this out i have a thought who one of the players are idk

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Looking back at her posting, the readslist is also odd like Dwlee's. mastina, why is Suripoko your second best town read as of 172?

Yeah i agree it was odd but i think she does this sort of thing most games and i'm not really sure i would get anything out of asking

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I'm saying that Bombay's justification of it still doesn't make it fit even in context. The vote makes sense in context. That doesn't make it fit in context. I'm not sure how to word that but I've made it fairly clear. My point isn't that "the vote shouldn't have been made at all"; my point is that "the vote doesn't look like it came from town". It wasn't the presence of the vote (a vote in that way makes sense in the context); it was the way it was handled (it didn't fit in the context).

Ok but this is a lot of words that dont really explain anything ... *why* is it not a vote that doesnt come from town? Like what does it mean that 'it didnt fit the context and therefore was scummy'?
Similar with the monkery thing ... *why* is that a scumclaim from luke? Why is this not something town-luke would think?

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That implies a scum perspective.

To give a viewpoint not biased towards scum, I had a genuine scumread on Bombay that happened to, by pleasant coincidence, overlap with my promise to LLD.

While I moved my vote as part of my promise to LLD, without the promise, I'd have remained on Bombay, because they are my strongest scumread.

Sure, and i acknowledge that its possible you're town and rhis is the explanation. But it has a scum perspective cuz i'm scumreading you and the reads dont make sense to me

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It's hard to get more town than Suripoko has from 7 posts at the time. From Suripoko's first post I already had a townread. The Tiger-bad, the decision to post in images (which is obviously not a real post restriction), the view that skitter is scum (while I disagree, I don't see that perspective ever coming from the hydra if they were scum),

Fwiw i'm like 95% sure the tiger bad was a meme and not indicative of what they actually thoght abt my alignment at the time, but i could be wrong

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Also if anyone got a jailkeeping role, ik it is hard to pick a target so that you don't fuck over town - feel free to target me

Okay y'know what

Anyone who scumreads me

Why do I make this post as scum?

Probably so you can point to this post and ask why you would make this as scum ...

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I think t3 is town, cant really understand what pookydra is saying, and idk i kinda like 542

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64 means you think he's more likely scum than town? Like nullscum?

But the strength of the scumread has gone down?

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I think cakez is town

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Gg everyone, thanks cabdffery for modding

Why *was* i killed n1?