Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[springlullaby]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!

Vote:Erratus Apathos

We all know what yer greek buggers do to cabin boys.

[springlullaby]

Ok MiteyMouse, do you have a post restriction? What is it with the squawking and birding shit?

[springlullaby]

If you can't say, one squawk for yes, two squawks for no.

[springlullaby]

Right MiteyMouse, I'll tell you right now that for meta reasons I think your restriction smells rotten.

Now let's see what you are made of: one squawk for yes, two sqwawks for no.

Are you a parrot?
How many words beside the emotes between asterisks are you allowed to use?(1 squawk for 1 word, 2 squawks for 2 words, 3 for 3, etc.)
Can you vote?
Can you fos?
Can you post multiple post (double posts, triple posts, etc.)
Can you communicate through codes with the emotes?
Are you willing to be lynched today because you look pretty useless to me?

[springlullaby]

Right MiteyMouse, I'll tell you right now that for meta reasons I think your restriction smells rotten.

Now let's see what you are made of: one squawk for yes, two sqwawks for no.

Are you a parrot?
How many words beside the emotes between asterisks are you allowed to use?(1 squawk for 1 word, 2 squawks for 2 words, 3 for 3, etc.)
Can you vote?
Can you fos?
Can you post multiple post (double posts, triple posts, etc.)
Can you communicate through codes with the emotes?

Are you willing to be lynched today because you look pretty useless to me?

-Squawk
-Squawk squawk
-squawk
-squawk
-squawk squawk
-been trying
-

squawk

Are my eyes disabusing me, did you answer yes to that last question?

I just want to let you know that a useless townie is still a townie, and by the looks of it MM is not all that useless... He's trying to be useful within the posting restriction.

@MM: Was:

*fetching the rum*

in code??

Interesting, you seem pretty sure of MiteyMouse's alignment.

Btw, MiteyMouse is a she last I heard.

[springlullaby]

Anyone caught what MM said to got herself modkilled?
Ask the Mod if it's ok to say.

Vote: crywolf

[springlullaby]

FoS

Voting without reasons on day two.

Explanations?

Tell me, can you explain what difference it makes that we are in day two?

[springlullaby]

I notice with great interest that you are claiming that 'there should be enough to start a discussion' but are not forthcoming with examples yourself.

To answer your question, I'm thinking I will generate discussion by voting. And look, discussion there is.

Unvote, Vote ClockworkRuse

I think your fos sucks, it is superficial and empty of reasoning. Tell me, if you think that there are points of interest in yesterday's happenings that should be discussed, why aren't you pointing them out instead of calling people out for not discussing them?

[springlullaby]

Reasoning behind votes, please? (springlullaby, Erratos, and Gremwell)

Reasoning behind your non vote, please?

[springlullaby]

ClockworkRuse, answer to my post please.

[springlullaby]

I like how you say 'waste more of our time', it is a strange notion.

And actually I reread day one and though that voting was a good thing to do.

[springlullaby]

I didn't really state much suspicion on this yesterday, besides that fact that I didn't like that fact that you were willing to lynch someone who is useless. Now I'm going to explain why I think you might be scum because of it.

If you were scum, you would be looking for the easiest lynch possible. Lynching someone who looks "useless" would open that up.

See http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1329407

Plus did you see me actually voting her? My choice of the word 'useless' actually has a meta history, I played in MM's newbie, and lynched a player partly on the ground of them being useless, I wanted to see her reaction to that question.

[springlullaby]

I like how you say 'waste more of our time', it is a strange notion.

And actually I reread day one and though that voting was a good thing to do.

What do you mean by strange notion?

Please, an answer to my questions.

Crossposted, see above for answer.

By strange notion I mean that I think it is incongruous to invoke time as a frame for the game, I think it is the first time I see it used this way. It may be scummy or not. So whose time am I wasting exactly? Does my voting impede my answering you? Does it impede my generating content? Does it impede other people's ability to chirp in and contribute? Has time really a relevance here?

[springlullaby]

I was just interested in the intent of the question. Could I have a link to that game please?

Sure, post in question within game in question:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 32#1300432

And could you please answer the other questions in the post above that, how does another Random Voting Stage help us?

The function of a random voting stage is to generate discussion (talk of self-fulfilling prophecy), there is no element from yesterday that I wished to discuss that I haven't done, so why not another random voting stage?

[springlullaby]

It impedes that towns time for hunting, although I would say it has opened more discussion today... So maybe this is a moot point?

Man, why are you asking me?

[springlullaby]

EBWOP It is you who raised the point in the first place.

[springlullaby]

This game annoys me. I wish I could strike to death everyone who has posted to say that they had nothing to say. I wish I had multiple votes right now.

I want a vote from everybody right now.

[springlullaby]

Why are you voting EA exactly?

[springlullaby]

Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Avast!

Capt'n, give a prod to Potates, militant, Squirrel, and humscunter would ye?

[springlullaby]

What questions? Are you talking to me?

[springlullaby]

Post.

...



Who's with me to vote off lurkers?

[springlullaby]

Is the above triple post another Post restriction or something? In fact is there a post restriction on the entire town, nay, ship that prevent people from posting or something?

Right now I think that Clockwork-Ruse has show a relative level of participation which deserve my unvoting him.

I agree with Goatrevolt case on Gremwell, and I do not like the lack of response.

Unvote, Vote Gremwell

I encourage people to vote him.

[springlullaby]

Is the above triple post another Post restriction or something? In fact is there a post restriction on the entire town, nay, ship that prevent people from posting or something?

Right now I think that Clockwork-Ruse has show a relative level of participation which deserve my unvoting him.

I agree with Goatrevolt case on Gremwell, and I do not like the lack of response.

Unvote, Vote Gremwell

I encourage people to vote him.

Vote: Springlullaby

I even made the question to you in bold. Please, go back and answer the questions.

And here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 04#1350904
I ask you what questions?

In which post did you address questions to me?

[springlullaby]

No, I find it scummy that you attacked an early wagon in the random stage. Trying to start discussion other than random on page 1 is something I've not yet seen done on this site.

So it's scummy to start discussion early on?

I disagree..It isn't scummy to try to get a convo going. The way you go about trying to get a conversation going however could be scummy.

Alright, then explain how it is scummy. Don't just say "It might be scummy if you do this..." Explain yourself and explain your thoughts. How was I scummy by pressuring EA? You've all said that you found it scummy that I didn't like a wagon that started

six posts

into the game. Explain how that makes me scum.

You've made accusations, now back them up.

@Gremwell, You better start explaining yourself too.

I'm quoting it again, because this was to everyone on my wagon.

Also, you say that you unvoted me because I was participating, correct?

What?

First, how were I to guess that these questions were addressed to me? You are quoting crywolf in there.

Second, how does these questions apply to me in the first place? Where did I say that you were scummy for pressuring EA?

Third, read the thread, I the reason of my every vote and unvote clear.

Seriously, do you really pay attention?

[springlullaby]

Gremwell, who do you think is the scummiest person right now?

[springlullaby]

I think it would have been better if I just restated the questions, looking back on that it is a little confusing.

How you could have expected people to understand that you question was addressed to 'everyone on my wagon' the way it was presented is beyond me.

And you know what, I think you confused me with crywolf, which is not scummy, but not owning up to the fact somewhat is.

First of all, don't patronize me with a "did you really pay attention." Did you or did you not unvote me because you thought I was participating? I'm asking for clarification.

Why you need to ask for a clarification is what I'm questioning, it is not, as your question make it appears to be, as if I did not made myself clear in the first place.

And yes, I did unvote you because at least you chirped in more than a number of other people and showed a a minimum of effort at scumhunting.

Second, how did you feel about the issue of me breaking off of a wagon and going after EA?

I assume that you are talking about you FOS'ing people bandwagonning EA on day 1.

If so, I think that bandwagonning in the RSV stage is not indicative of alignment, subsquently that the motif you invoked for suspecting people wasn't a strong one, but I also think that it is an ok starting point to start off discussion.

In clear, I think it's a null tell from you.

Ye best be explainin yerself lass. What yer talkin' bout "lack of response?"

Yes you're right, I got my timeline confused. For some reason that your vote on Gremwell has gone unanswered for longer than it really had.



-------------------------------------------------------------------

Gremwell, the mechanism behind the RSV stage is to place votes to provoke reactions, reactions you can then analyse to place a better vote and start off 'real' discussion.

This means that random vote is not a goal in itself but a mean to achieve a better level of information, and that they are only acceptable if one show willingness to built better cases upon them.

I have yet to see any real contribution from you despite three random votes today, so yes, your vote hopping is very scummy.

I ask you again, who do you think is scummy and why?

[springlullaby]

I FoSed EA for bandwagoning very early in the game, just six posts in actually. A few people have brought up the point and called me scummy because of it. Please re-read day one, which shouldn't be much of a challenge, and express your views.

I got the names mixed up, I was referring to you FOS'ing Jebus and EA day 1 here:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 60#1324360

Are we talking about the same event? If so, my answer stands.

And as for why I needed clarification, you didn't originally vote me for not participating. You voted me for being suspicious of a second random vote stage, how does my participation affect your views of that at all?

1. No I did not vote your for not participating, I voted you for FOS'ing people for crappy reasons.

2. Your participation affect my view of you in the sense that at least you seem to be making an effort at questionning people. Compared to total non-committal and vote hopping it makes you less of a priority.

[springlullaby]

@ Springlullaby: Who are your three highest suspects at the moment?

I am just waiting for Clock to reply to the questions that have been asked of him.

And what did you make of his replies?

Still waiting for answers to these.

I haven't got three suspects as of right now but as a matter of fact, I think you are pretty scummy.

I haven't got the time write a full case with quote right now but here are is the listing of the reasons why:

-too much cliche questions to feel genuine
-soft vote
-crappy and monolithic cliche reasons to be suspecting the three you have mentioned today (this is a big one, been there done that, as scum)
-a general 'look I'm so town'-ness while your contributions have been in fact subpar and offers no real insight
-unclear stance on mass claim - I made once the exact answer you did as newb scum - which offers nothing of your intuition of how mass claim may work out based on your own role PM

-------------------------------------------------------------

I'm against massclaim, there hasn't been powerole outed as of yet so it is unwise to force it.

As far as catching scum based on flavor go 1)I'm sure any mod worth their money has thought of that 2)complicated flavor is generally as likely to catch town than scum.

[springlullaby]

Why are we planning on mass claiming? I don't think it's a very good idea.

1. We haven't outed any power roles yet. Mass claiming will be sure to do that for us.

2. The flavor is obscured enough that we won't be able to catch anyone on flavor. Crywolf tried to call Gremwell out as lying about his vanilla claim based on flavor, and was wrong. What's to say mass claiming won't just cause us to mislynch a couple vanilla townies based on the idea that their vanilla flavor is wrong?

I'm noting here that this is an exact parrot of what I have said on massclaim earlier, just with more words and presented differently.

----------------------------------------------

I'm still not in favor of a massclaim

But if it is decided that we should massclaim, I think Huntress and probably Goat should probably go high on that list.

[springlullaby]

To reply to your list of reasons:
1) Each question was asked for a reason - to get answers and/or reactions.

Yet you have not, it seems, inferred anything from any of your questions. Scum, especially newer one, often thinks it makes them looks good to ask a lot of questions to look busy. However their downfall is that often their questions read like text-book scumhunting, and do not articulate a discernible train of thought. You see, town more often than do not fire questions to everyone and tend to be more focused (IMO the only way to get shit done actually), scum however often think that it is good show to ask question to about everyone, like you did at the beginning of this game, so they can a)look coherent when they jump on a random wagon later on b)distance from their buddies.

2) What do you mean by "soft vote"?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#1362616

Vote on crywolf - 'althought you may switch later'? Tell me, why putting a vote at all only to say 'I may switch later'.

I'm going to answer in your stead shall I? I think you voted crywolf here because you knew she was wrong about Gremwell and his claim. And this is scummy because from my perspective I could have had the same doubts about that claim, and I think the only way you could have been sure crywolf was wrong, was if you are in the informed minority.

Now I'm going to point out Jebus' reaction to Gremwell's claim:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1362603
Looks the same as yours minus the vote doesn't it?


3) I haven't actually given my reasons for my current suspicions, apart from a comment on the lynch, so I don't see how you can describe them as monolithic or cliche.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#1370416
The suspicion stated here is cliche crap, and monolithic.

You are suspecting three persons for the same reason and that's not real scumhunting. From a town's perspective it is at no time reasonable to suspect three persons for the same thing, because someone genuinely scumhunting will often assume that not all scum will act the same; but from a scum perspective, they often can't get past a superficial need to maintain coherence by treating people equally for the same act.

Furthermore, you reason for throwing suspicions on the three you cited is simply bullshit: feels like cliche assumption that town would never rush a lynch forcibly applied to an event while totally disregarding the circumstances of the approaching deadline.

And you know what these suspicions just sound a little too much like 'look at me, I wasn't on that myslynch' for me to like it.

4) Please explain this comment.

It says what it says, I think your contribution looks busy, but for all your posts your contribution is totally subpar: you haven't expressed one single strong and clear opinion or conviction about anything. I'll go as far as saying you have been pretty much looking in plain sight.

5) What did you find unclear about my stance on the mass-claim?

I find you 'oh hay, I'm newb so I'll go along with people's opinion' terribly wishy-washy.

You say you are against a mass-claim yet you complain that I offer nothing of my intuition of how mass claim may work out based on my own role PM. Were you hoping to deduce my role from what I said while keeping your own secret?

Are you missing the fact that I expressed a strong stance on why we shouldn't massclaim? The difference between you position and mine is that I do give insight on what should or not should be done, it is a piece of me; whereas all you have said on massclaim is 'huh, I dunno'.
And your question here is pretty scummy because it smells of the beginning of an OMGUS.

What do you make of the way day two ended?

What do you mean specifically? You mean the Gremwell lynch? Well, I think it is unfortunate that the lynch was to meet deadline, I am certainly to blame because I wasn't around enough to make more discussion happen. But I think it is unfair and unreal to reproach the three that have voted to meet the deadline them 'rushing the lynch', because a mislynch is better than no-lynch (except in special circumstance, generally later in a game). Which doesn't mean that they couldn't be scum.

I'll top this case with the following:

Vote: Springlullaby

This is my personal choice for the next wagon. This is more of a vibe I'm getting from him than actual evidence I can back up, though.

Just the next wagon? Or are you going for a lynch here? Apart from posts 207 and 222, almost all your posts suggest to me that you're just tagging along after targets picked by others.

This is one of the more definite suspicion you have expressed all day yesterday, but no actual vote.

With the confirmation of Jebus' alignment, I think it is bussing cum coaching.

Vote: Huntress

[springlullaby]

I'm noting here that this is an exact parrot of what I have said on massclaim earlier, just with more words and presented differently.

Your point being? Must I present new and original reasons for opposing a mass claim?

But if it is decided that we should massclaim, I think Huntress and probably Goat should probably go high on that list.

FoS springlullaby

.

Assumption 1: You are opposing mass claim because you think it is anti-town to mass claim.

Assumption 2: You want the people you find the scummiest to claim first.

In other words, you think mass claiming is anti-town, thus the idea of opposing a mass claim would be pro-town. So why do you want the two people who agree with you that we should not mass claim to claim first? These are the two players who are supporting pro-town behavior based on your position.

I think you need to explain yourself here.

Strawman, I'm not saying you are suspect for opposing massclaiming, I'm saying you repeating exactly was I said is scummy.

I expect town to have their own reasons, whether it is for or against massclaim.

On the other hand, scum often like to copy-cat town's opinion a) it is the safe thing to do because they fear expressing an opinion that outs them as having a different perspective than town b)in the event the town person is cardflipped, the copy-catting scum can claim associative town-ess ('look, I said the same thing as X, and X was town!').

And you know what, I think your reaction and superficial logic is pretty telling here.

[springlullaby]

BTW, bold within Huntress' quote in my #277 are mine

[springlullaby]

I

support massclaim

and prefer Goatrevolt goes first.

Huntress restarted the wagon on crywolf with two days until deadline, and says she thought she thought she could have achieved a crywolf lynch. But when I pushed the idea that Jebus's vote on springlullaby was probably not a distancing attempt, Huntress countered by calling Jebus's vote not threatening. Jebus was the second vote for springlullaby, and cast it before her vote on crywolf - so if Huntress thought a crywolf lynch was plausible, why did she decry my position on springlullaby on the basis of a springlullaby lynch not being plausible?

FoS: Huntress

Goatrevolt's 275 makes me happy with lynching him today. "We feel the same way about massclaim, so how can you find me scummy?" That's pure craplogic. I can not see Goatrevolt-town coming to the conclusion that springlullaby-town should give him and Huntress free passes for opposing massclaim.

Confirm vote: Goatrevolt

EA, can you expose your full case on Goatrevolt please? Your confirm vote here strikes me as peculiar.


I see the post, I'll answer to Huntress later.

[springlullaby]

Goatrevolt, I think your reaction is kinda too defensive too early, which is quite scummy: I haven't made a case against you yet. Guilty conscience at play?

As for your accusation against me, it is strawman and faulty. I accused you of parroting exactly what I said, which is scummy for the reason I described, not of being against massclaim.

--------------------------------------------

Huntress, I think your defense is okay on the reasonable level, but you see, I still think you are very high probability scum for the reasons I described.

And your attack on clockwork is pretty scummy too, because from where I sit, his push for massclaim is pretty protown. Here I expect you to say something about my contradicting myself, and I'm going to pre-emptively answer you that this kind of argument show linear logic, which is very often indicative of scum, in line with Goatrevolt's accusation: sometimes town people are of a diverging opinion, it doesn't impede them from appearing town while expressing it.

Plus that accusation about Mickey Mouse is just very scummy. It is lower end emotional manipulation. Tell me, how would you have dealt with MM were you here when she was still aroud? Bottom line is MM's modkill is regrettable, but ultimately her own fault.

Also, I'm noting your accusations of rolefishing, not that they holds ground (btw, 'informed minority' means scum), I think they are not in line with your play. In clear, I think that by accusing me of rolefishing you hope to subconsciously hint at you being a powerrole, but you see, I don't think any kind of town powerrole would have made the wishy-washy answer you first made in regard to massclaim.

There is also something else you said that I have noticed. I will hold it against you or not depending on your future play I whether you conform to my prediction.

-----------------------------------------------------

Erratus Apathos: your defense of me is starting to ping my scumdar, as your avoidance of restating your case on Goat.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now about massclaim, tally:



Unknow - Erratus Apathos

AGAINST - Goatrevolt Potates

AGAINST - Huntress PlaysWithSquirrels

Unknow - RandomGem humscunter

FOR - ClockworkRuse

FOR - crywolf20084

AGAINST - springlullaby

FOR - militant


EA and Humscumter needs to make up their minds.

I still think massclaim could have waited another day, but seeing that Clock is saying that he is claiming no matter what, and that the only two people beside me that are against massclaim so far are people I suspect, I will switch my vote in two days if the issues is still undecided.

[springlullaby]

Why would you switch to Huntress?

I'm too lazy to reply to Huntress or Goat right now. For the record Goat's response is scummy.

[springlullaby]

You know what, I didn't realize the deadline was so near. And the lack of activity just sucks so much it hurts.

EA answer quickly please, I want to see if I can trust you.

Then I'll make a big post on things and stuff.

[springlullaby]

First, sorry for the downtime and announcing VLA coming up dec 20 to janv 2.

Second, Clock's claim is totally unexpected.

Third Goat's post above is very scummy, no lynch would have benefitted scum more.

Now, something I haven't explained earlier. I'm more certain of Huntress-scum because upon reread I noticed that her guess at last night kill was paranoid gun-owner: town pretty much never guess that. My guess on this is that Huntress is the same alignment than Jebus, and that they sent Jebus on the kill, which explain her reaction. That was what I meant when I said there was something I would hold against her or not depending on what she does, and part of why I changed my mind about mass-claim, because there is a specific possibility for her to be town.

BUT, clock's claim put on the table the possibly of cult, which 1)makes massclaim likely bad 2) worries me because EA and Xtoxm haven't discussed it. What I fear here, even though I do feel Huntress and Goat are both very scummy, is that given the little posting I'm getting focused on people who participate more and letting cult slip by in the event cult and mafia are two different alignments.

So yeah, I'd like to know what everyone think about Clock's claim.

I think it is very unlikely to be scum motivated, and can't make out a scenario in which it would profit to scum to do what he did BUT I find it very bizarre that he was offered the possibility to refuse to be recruited, because that kind of make cult pointless.

[springlullaby]

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Xtoxm's claim undermine my reasoning about Huntress because it would have required Jebus' scumgroup to have a killing power.

I'm okay to vote Goat.

Unvote, vote: Goat.

Pointing out here that Goat's 338 is again a lot of parroting from my 335.

As for my defense, I may have done myself a disservice by being lazy, but then again I don't think any of the questions I haven't answered to make for a good case.

If you guys are being genuine, you will have no problem in formulating a proper case first. Then I'll answer it.

[springlullaby]

Clock you need to make a vote.

[springlullaby]

Happy new year everybody, and claim first, thoughts later.

I'm the cook and I look after the galley. I have a oneshot ability (day) that I haven't used yet. Let me look at this more closely before I decide if I want to say or not.

[springlullaby]

Say there are 3 scum alive. You get a mislynch today, and the serial killer shoots a townie. You win.

Say the serial killer even shoots scum. You still make out fine. You got rid of me, at the cost of yourself, who was probably going to be high on the list of players to lynch after I came up town, anyway.

If you turned up town, the SK would keep the game alive by killing me. This is nonsensical fearmongering.

EA, please answer this, something seems unclear here, do you think Goat is cult or SK? And please you describe what you were thinking when you pushed for his lynch yesterday.

Also, looking things over I see no benefit in my keeping my power secret. I can prevent one mislynch in twilight by giving rum to everyone on board, basically I'm a governor.

[springlullaby]

Yes, it still goes to night.

First I want a

deadline extension please

, and everybody should be voting for it right now.

Second here is the thing, on one hand I don't think EA's action makes sense atm, on the other I think Goat and Huntress shows up as linked which most probably indicates mafia given their claims.

1) You see, Huntress unwillingness to lynch Goat at deadline make absolutly zero sense from a town standpoint:
- and lynch is always better than nolynch, especially in the situation yesterday when faced with a cult: nolynch is like giving scum a free cult and a free kill
- she claimed vanilla, hence she could not have been sure Goat was not scum

This makes me think that the most probable mafia/cult counts Goat and Huntress in its members. That or she is moronically obtuse town which is always a chance. If Huntress is town I would like to see her giving a solid explanation on why she thought it was better to let nolynch happen.

Right now I have her at defo scum though but I'm not sure I want to lynch her because if anything her action indicates that Goat is most probable cult leader than she is, because i don't figure a cult leader would out themselves so easily in the interest of defending a cultee. Here, I'd like to see what Goat's has to say to that and his take on Huntress' action.

2) Now all this is working on the assumption that a cult exists, and this assumption needs to be examined: it is only Clockworkruse's word that made us aware of it.

Right now I trust his words, because I think his push for massclaim yesterday is very much town an makes sense in light of his claim, and him lying on this seems too much of a stretch.

The con against that is that he has apparently been offered the possibility of choosing against being culted which doesn't seem to make sense. But you see, a possible explanation for this is that it is flavor, and this is what I'm thinking because it makes no sense for Clock to reveal that bit of information if he were cult aligned.

I also very much doubt that he is 'normal' mafia fakeclaiming cult in the interest of spreading paranoia because of his officer rank.

The last alternative is that he is SK, which is not very likely because of his confirming people's role.

--->My conclusion on this is that cult is trustable assumption and that Clock is very probably town, and still is.

Next I'm going to examine the SK assumption and Xtoxm.

[springlullaby]

Forgot to say:

Huntress asked me to answer her questions. I think her question sucksn are loaded and faulty, and fail in every way to show genuine assertiveness or scumhunting merit.

BUT I'm ok to answer them if she agrees to present her case on me properly in one tidy post. Something she is not going begrudge me if she is town and genuinely interested in finding out whether I'm scum, I'm sure.

[springlullaby]

Xtoxm, what is your rolename? You actually never claimed it and that I don't like. Same for huntress. And what about the marline spike? Also I want more flavor from the Powder Monkey. What is a Powder Monkey in the first place.

Goat, I don't like the coercion in your post. I can prove my role anytime but given the situation I do not think it is priority and I'm going to use it only on people I think are not scum and that is final.

The only concern here is my getting NK'd before I can use it, but if the SK is the only killer, it should be clear that my power is more harmful to cult than the SK and they should be wise about it.

[springlullaby]

I'd like an answer from crywolf.

Posting better latter.

[springlullaby]

I hope it's a vig kill.

Huntress, I repeated 2 times that I would answer your questions if you agreed on presenting a case on me properly. If you were town and really convinced I'm scum, surely you would do everything possible to convict me. But you see, you can't because if you were to sum up your question they would amount to nothing.

Here I'll be fair, you asked a question in your last post accusing me of rolefishing.
I'll point point out here that I'm pretty sure I already answered to it the first time round saying that I was not. People can judge.

Right now I'm thinking Goat SK, Huntress cult.

Goat SK because of EA, I'd say he was probably not lying about his results and trying to get rid of the competition.

Huntress cult because she is just scum and I just don't see how it could be otherwise. Namely, what was that thing again for arguing against deadline yesterday? It is a moot point now, but arguing against deadline extension is just totally wtf.

I'm not letting clock die today, because I still don't see how it makes sense for him to be cult.

[springlullaby]

Goat, if you are Sk, claim. I'd rather deal with cult first.

[springlullaby]

I think I find it odd you are looking for serial killer, not cult.

Either way, your reasoning doesn't add up because you somehow find me scummy because of a link you see between EA and myself, suggesting mafia, then say that I'm serial killer. So which is which?

As for EA and you, I think you are reaching because I thought both of you were scummy, the only fault I could be accused of would be being indecisive.

Then I'll add that giving my claim, it is odd for you to not ask me to prove it so I can confirm myself, instead of going directly for the lynch.

So yes, this is your last window to claim if you are sk or not.

[springlullaby]

Goat SK because of EA, I'd say he was probably not lying about his results and trying to get rid of the competition.

It's pretty obvious he was lying about his results. Do you honestly think I actually targeted Jebus, but yet managed to pull out inconsistency after inconsistency in EA's story? If I had actually targeted Jebus that night, I wouldn't have had the same vigor in catching EA's lies, because EA wouldn't have actually been lying so there wouldn't have been anything to catch. Also, note how EA completely stopped posting and refused to debate with me. He knew I had him nailed, and didn't want to post in thread because there was nothing he could say to refute my arguments against him. Do you think an EA who legitimately had information on me as the serial killer would lay down and die like that?

The problem here is, why would have him lied only to get himself lynched the next day?

If cult were on the verge of winning yesterday, then with today's death it is still a straight win for them, no?

[springlullaby]

I think I find it odd you are looking for serial killer, not cult.

I'm looking for both. Try reading my first post today again. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with this either. You are accusing me of being the serial killer because I'm hunting for the serial killer? I'm interested in hearing you explain how that makes any sense. It would truly be in my best interest as Serial Killer to try to lead the town towards hunting the serial killer. Am I right?

Also, I make no sense as serial killer. I told you directly to read that post (455), and you pretty much have ignored that completely, still opting to try to call me out as scum with some of the weakest arguments I have ever seen.

I think your posts today demonstrate pretty clearly that you are scum of some sort. As scum, you need a couple of mislynches to win at this point. Why you're trying to go for me I have no clue, but it's obvious that you're at the end of your rope.

I answered to your 455.

Please do point out what demonstrate that I'm 'pretty clearly scum of some sort'. What is the point of you saying stuff like ' you are scum at the end of your rope' without backing in the first place?

I'll break it down again. Clockwork and myself cannot possibly be the Serial Killer. Xtoxm is highly unlikely to be the serial killer based on the same logic used to clear myself (and I think his actions yesterday demonstrate that he is pro-town. He was willing to consider new information and change his mind based on it). That means the serial killer is either you or Huntress.

I think the Serial Killer is Huntress, because I think you're part of the mafia based on the connection I pointed out between you and EA. Granted, I'm willing to admit that it's possible that I'm wrong and you're actually the serial killer and not cult, (which would mean either Huntress or Clockwork is cult). Either way, I'm pretty positive you're scum, so I don't see a losing scenario for us to lynch you today.

Your connection is circumstantial. There is nothing else I can say to it. Were I mafia with EA, don't you think I would have pushed for you when people where pretty much all good in lynching you? Be bathed in my reprobation if you claim WIFOM on this one.

Huntress, if you are SK, please claim.

Not really. You expressed suspicion of both EA and myself. However, your actions betray you. You have never once actually pursued EA, only me. You only pressured me, not EA. You asked EA a couple of simple questions and didn't bother to hear a reply from him or care that he didn't. The suspicion you threw my way was an extremely weak pairing between Huntress and myself, yet that comprised the entire bulk of your posting yesterday. In fact, the entire extent of your suspicion of me was that you thought Huntress was scum and that therefore I was scum with her. Now today, even though Huntress and myself can't be paired anymore, and even though I was entirely correct about EA, you still are trying to somehow pin a lynch on me. I'm sorry, but there is no way you as town are going to play like this.

You being correct about EA doesn't excuse of being scum.
And your defense is bizarre, I'm not trying to pin a lynch on you. Quite to the contrary, I was leaning Huntress cult and trying to figure things out before doing anything.

I've stated why I think you are SK based on EA's play. Because your explanation yesterday to EA's action was cult on the verge of winning. I agree that is the only possible explanation if you are not SK. But you see, it can't be the case, because with today's kill cult should still be winning.
The logical explanation to this is that EA wasn't lying about his result and hoped to confirm himself and eliminate concurrence in claiming yesterday.

Right now I think you are SK and you don't want to claim because there is possibly a vig.

For you to actually acknowledge that EA's actions didn't make any sense based on the role he claimed, but then do nothing to get him lynched makes it quite obvious you are scum.

I was trying to figure thing out. Were I mafia do you think I would have given you the benefit of the doubt?

To be honest, I can see a cultist having the role you claimed, although admittedly it's less likely than town having it.

And no, now that you've actually clarified how your role works I'd rather not test it. First of all, you having the role doesn't guarantee that you are town. Secondly, testing your role involves us completely wasting an entire day.

Finally, this is quite the change of pace from yesterday. I seem to recall you getting a little flustered when I "coerced" you into proving your role yesterday. I thought you wanted to use it when you saw fit? Now I'm scummy because I'm NOT "coercing" you into using your role? Funny how that works.

So yes, this is your last window to claim if you are sk or not.

You arguing that I can possibly be scum with my role is quite scummy. Please explain to me how it can be possibly balanced. And there was coercion in you post yesterday because you wanted to force me to use my power on you.

Right now the logical thing to do if you really think I'm scum is to let me prove it on someone I wish to protect. Because you see, there being possibly a vig as I hope doesn't make a day wasted at all.

We need confirmation from Xtoxm on this one.

Obviously I'm not going to claim SK, because it's obvious I'm not the SK. Try reading 455 and then get back to me. You repeatedly asking this of me certainly is not improving my opinion of you in the slightest, though. Rather than actually try to build a case or provide any evidence why I'm the SK, you're opting to "look town" by asking me to claim serial killer. Doesn't work that way, sorry.

I replied to your post and I did say why I thought you were serial killer, you are eluding the point entirely.

[springlullaby]

Sorry, I didn't answer to your 455.

I do agree it make you being SK near impossible.

Maybe I'm wrong. Let me think about this again.

[springlullaby]

I like how you quoted this portion of my post and ignored the paragraph at the end. You'll find I'm quite persistent. I'm not going to stop harassing you until you read post 455 and comment on it, despite your best efforts to ignore it.

To be honest, I have no idea why EA would lie like that. Maybe he didn't realize the implications of his actions, or that a mislynch on me would directly result in his lynch the following day. Maybe he did realize that but was perfectly fine with trading himself for me. If you check back through the thread you'll find that I posted a link to a game where EA made a similar play as scum and got lynched for his role not really fitting with his play through the game.

Also, let's assume EA was on the brink of winning, and that's why he made that play. That means there were 3 cultists alive. We lynch EA. Two players are night killed. Now there are 2 cultists alive out of 5 players, which is not game over. So, it's entirely possible that the cult was and still is on the brink of winning.

Personally, I don't think that's the case. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt this setup involved 5 scum and 1 neutral out of 12 players.

The crossposting has to stop. I thought your 455 was your first post today, and though I aswered to it, my mistake.

But you are wrong, yesterday was 5 to lynch, which mean scum on the verge of winning would have been 4. Which mean still 3 today, which means there would have been a lynch now if that was the case.

[springlullaby]

I feel fairly confident Springlullaby is scum even if we're looking at nothing more than her posts today. Repeatedly asking people to claim SK is not pro-town. It doesn't actually do anything beneficial to town. Do you honestly believe a SK is going to simply say "ok, since you asked me so nicely, yes I'm a serial killer. And now that I've ruined any chance of winning by giving that information to the town, you can go forth and lynch me now!" Seriously, asking people to claim SK without providing any reasoning why a SK would claim accomplishes nothing. All it does is try to plant the notion in the town's mind that you are town because you're "hunting the serial killer." Additionally, I think SL's repeated stance that "she hopes the 2nd kill is a vig kill" is a nice cover up for the fact that she is the mafia member who made the kill last night. It makes no sense to assume it's a vig kill. I think the reason she's assuming it's a vig kill is to try to play off the idea that "she was unaware mafia had a kill" or something like that.

Tell me how I can 'play off the idea' that there is a vig kill when Xtoxm can confirm people's death?

Still waiting on Xtoxm for this one.

Furthermore, I want to point out the sheer ridiculousness in the fact that springlullaby tried to paint me as scum because I was "hunting the serial killer and not cult." Read through her posts today. How many of her posts pertain towards finding the serial killer or asking people if they are the serial killer? How many are related towards finding the cult? Hypocrisy for the loss.

I'll tried to figures things out plenty, my post is out there to judge.

Then if you look further back through the thread you see her weakly pressure EA a couple times in a very insincere manner. She calls out EA on two occasions, but doesn't pursue it in a meaningful manner, and instead opts to pressure and push for the lynch of myself and Huntress. That's perfect scumbuddy material right there. If EA does get lynched, she can go back through and point out the few times she "expressed suspicion" of EA. However, she did not in any point throughout the thread actually contribute whatsoever to getting EA lynched. In fact, she acknowledged that I had a point about EA's actions not making sense based on his claimed role, but yet pressured me based on the flimsy case that she was suspicious of Huntress and thought I was connected to Huntress. Her actions speak quite a bit louder than her words in this case.

I already said that the connection is circumstantial. And I do not like your extreme change of tune from yesterday.

I think Springlullaby is cult here. I think her "I hope it's a vig" is a nice cover up for her being mafia and making a kill. If Xtoxm claims that the 2nd kill was made by the mafia then springlullaby can say "oh, well I thought it was a vig, silly me. But the member of the mafia would have known it wasn't a vig, so clearly I'm not mafia! Oh and also I asked the serial killer to claim, which makes it impossible for me to be the serial killer. That means I'm town!".

Despite trying to call me out on it, she's done nothing but hunt for the serial killer today, which is what a member of the cult wants to do. They want the focus to be on finding the other scum group (which makes her accusation that I'm the serial killer because I'm hunting the SK absurd).

See above concerning vig and Xtoxm. Repeating yourself with the maximum of words possible to say the most simple thing is very scummy if you ask me. Plus, now I'm hunting for the SK, am I? I thought you said I did nothing today two paragraphs ago?

Man, the more you post, the more I think you are scum, just when I doubt myself.

[springlullaby]

I don't think the way you've attacked me today is in any way representative of a townie legitimately trying to find scum. I think it fits scum who need a couple of mislynches to win, and thus they have to dredge up and go with anything they can get. In other words, to paint me as scum you have to make quite a few stretches in how it's possible for me to be scum. I don't think a townie is going to draw those conclusions, but I can see a scum trying to do so since they might actually need me dead to win.

I'm starting to hear echo again, those are my thinking about Huntress.
Point out the flaw in my thinking about EA vs you, and point out how 'a townie is not going to draw this conclusion'.

OMG, WIFOM!!!!!!

Actually, I think that very little in mafia is actually WIFOM, and generally do not like when people write stuff off as being WIFOM.

The answer to your question is that my lynch was not secure, and needed your vote to happen. Huntress was off playing in her own corner all day and was unwilling to commit to either myself or EA. I'm obviously not going to vote for myself, and Clockwork/Crywolf/Militant were either MIA or indecisive. In other words, when you posted yesterday it was at a crucial point where things could have swung either way. Your post was such that you legitimately could have gone either way (as you expressed suspicion of both myself and EA) yet the bulk of your inquiry and pressure was placed on me, not EA. In fact, you were asking me to explain Huntress' actions in an effort to clear myself, and you didn't once go back and actually address EA. For you to willingly admit EA's actions didn't make sense, but yet still not move at all towards lynching him is a strong indication of your mentality.

This paragraph disgust me. Don't go all pseudo psychoanalyst guru on me, lest you make yourself look stupid.

In a game with multi scumgroup and a cult, trying to figure out which is the best lynch is what townie do. My thinking about EA and you were exactly as I posted, you were both suspicious, I wanted to figure out which of you was the best lynch.

If you were mafia you would have known I was telling the truth, because you would have known EA was lying. It's easy to give me the benefit of the doubt when you have private information to prove that I'm telling the truth.

Man, why did you waste your time writing this shit. Does it say anything really? Tell, do you honestly think that this is a good argument?

Why do you think there's a vig? I don't think there's a vig and I think the information in the thread makes it highly unlikely there's a vig. Please explain how you can jump to this conclusion at all? If there is a vig, who makes sense as vig? A town vig obviously wouldn't shoot Militant, who was pretty much confirmed town. That means if there was a vig they shot Crywolf. If Xtoxm, myself, Clockwork, or you are the vig that means as town we fake claimed a different role as a lie to hide that we were a vig. Not likely. Xtoxm or myself as vig would have shot Huntress yesterday, not crywolf, based on our posting. That means the only possible person who could be a vig is Huntress, but you're entirely convinced she's scum (and thus not a vig).

So please, explain this for me, and ease my mind that this isn't just you trying to come to the conclusion that it's a vig so that you can fake innocence when it isn't.

I think there is a vig because for town to have a kill make my role more powerful, I and hope it is the case.

How can I 'fake innocence' with Xtoxm's role?

[springlullaby]

BTW, catching up and answering to post as they come.

[springlullaby]

t;]The only reason I haven't made a clear case against you yet is because I was waiting for your answers to my questions before doing so. Those answers would have helped me get a clearer read on you and could even have lead to me dropping the case.

You say, "If you were town and really convinced I'm scum, surely you would do everything possible to convict me." But that's the whole point! I'm not convinced you're scum, which is why I want your answers to help me decide! Your refusal to give those answers is just pushing you higher up my scum-o-meter.

Nah, my point is if you were to summarize your questions, it would be evident that your wonted 'questions' have no scumhunting value whatsoever, and is imo a good indication that you are scum. And you see, I'm not getting into an endless quote wall contest with you. Do prove me wrong if you can.

What do you mean by "last post"? The last time I mentioned role-fishing was many posts ago in day three. It is now day five! And what about the questions I asked you in day four? In particular, this one:

I can prevent one mislynch in twilight by giving rum to everyone on board, basically I'm a governor.

A quick question: Would you have used this power on a previous day if you thought it necessary?

Can I have an answer to this please?

One of your last post addressing me was this one:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 03#1425603

In which you reference this post as example of 'questions' I haven't answered to, the gist of which is 'why rolefishing':
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1404603

My answer is the same as the first time you directed that accusation at me, I was not, people can judge.

And the answer to your 'would you have used your power' is probably, I dunno. Now please demonstrate how does your question amount to scumhunting of any sort.

I wasn't arguing against the extension; I was asking you why you needed one when we still had six days to spare. Another question you haven't answered.

Because six days is nothing at this game's going rate. Why are you even arguing this point is what I'm getting at. The short deadline has led to a crappy nolynch, yes or no?

[springlullaby]

Ok. I'd like the same from SL and CR.

I have a butcher hook.

Btw, you haven't said if there are a vig kill or not.

Right now I have a hard time believing Clockwork can be cult because being cult and revealing it when no one is aware of it makes no sense. Maybe Sk actually because opposing scum faction can't be recruited, and he has actually not given any result that wasn't already claimed.

Having reread the game, I actually don't think Goat can be scum. Because militant jailkeeping him N3.

I also very much doubt Xtoxm is scum.

That leaves Huntress as cult.

[springlullaby]

Are you serious? Give me a freaking break. I'm attacking you because I think your play is scummy. You're attacking Huntress presumably because you think her play is scummy. Well guess what, sometimes two separate people do similar scummy stuff! How novel. So, not only am I not able to ever agree with any opinion Springlullaby puts in the thread, I'm also not allowed to attack other people based on any similar scumtells. Doing so would be "copycatting" and scum are the only ones who ever agree with other people. /sarcasm.

By the way, you never answered my earlier question. Why shouldn't I vote you for agreeing with my case on Gremwell? I mean, I gave reasons why I thought Gremwell was scum and you said you agreed with them and voted for him. You rogue copycat, you! And since you've so clearly established that copycatting is the mark of scum, you implicate yourself as scum quite clearly with that little play. Am I right?

I think I already explained this once. The difference between you and me is that I said straight up that I agreed with your case and didn't use one unnecessary word. You on the other hand took my thoughts, repackaged them in others words, and presented them in lengthy posts as an original POV on this game.

The scumminess here is not whether you agree with me or not, or whether you gave me credit, and it is not even dependent on how much I think I am correct. The scumminess of your copycatting is in the deception of contribution you create by posting what has already been said, when in fact the value of your copycat content is zero and merely echoes.

What? You directly asked me for the psychology behind why you would make that play as scum. How dare I try to explain your psychology after you ask me to! Note, here, the fact that your next paragraph is entirely based on the psychology of townies vs. scum. I'm disgusted by the psychoanalysis present.

I'll acknowledge this one, but still your 'is a strong indication of your mentality' just sounds like crap to me.

Why do you waste your time asking me questions that lead to those answers then? You asked me why you would have given me the benefit of the doubt as scum. That's like asking why scum sometimes defend townies. Um...because it makes them look good? Because it's easy to defend someone as town when you know they are town? etc. etc.

Here I detect slight deception. In your post the answer you gave was 'it is easy for scum to give benefit of the doubt because they know who is innocent', which is a shitty answer, and different from the one you are giving now, and upon which I called you on.

What you want or what you hope has no relevance on what is. Why do you think there is a vig? I don't want to know why you would hope for one, I just want to know why you actually think there is one.

Xtoxm's role is how you fake innocence. You can't "innocently" believe the wrong thing if nobody actually knows what the right answer is.

I faced this as scum before, and it can sometimes be a complicated matter. Scum have more information than townies. They know the setup much better than townies do. Sometimes scum get caught specifically because they have more knowledge than they are supposed to. I caught scum in a somewhat recent game simply because he suggested the possibility of multiple scum groups (pretty much out of nowhere). Well, there were two scum groups, and his knowledge of this made it obvious he was scum.

Anyway the point is that oftentimes scum will suggest wrong ideas about the setup either to mislead the town or to appear innocent of having too much knowledge when the actual setup is uncovered. It's why I'm harassing you about this vig thing, because it strikes me as exactly that. I don't see how you could logically come to the conclusion of a vig based on the information in thread. I want to know why you believe there to be one, not why you hope for one.

The answer I gave you is what it is. My role is more powerful if there is a vig, which makes me think and hope that there is one. This is called an educated guess. The same way a miller may guess that there is a cop in a setup based on their role.

Now, tell me, why are you selectively quoting me?

[springlullaby]

Role fishing was only a small part of the points I raised. Let's recap:

In post 259 you made some accusations to which I replied/asked for clarification in post 261. You expanded on this in post 277 to which I replied in post 280, refuting your points and raising questions on some of your answers. You replied in post 303 saying you thought my defense was okay. Does this mean you accept that your accusations were wrong? But you then went on to say that you still thought I was scummy for those reasons! In post 307 I said that I'd still like to see your responses to the points I made and the questions I asked (in post 280), and I also made other points about 303. These you never responded to at all. Am I to assume this was because you knew your points in that post were baseless?

This is not what I asked for. I'm asking you to summarize you case on me in a way which prove that your question have any inherent scumhunting value, because I think they do not and is an indication of your scummyness. Case in point: the loaded question at the end of the above paragraph.

And to respond to you one question I think has merits in the above: I did not accept that my accusation were wrong, merely said that you presented an acceptable defense, but I also distincly recall precising that I thought you were scum despite of it.

Why? Because sometimes people present okay defense upon which it would be unreasonable to argue further, it still doesn't impede one of thinking them to be scum. You see, in the absence of certainty, it is up to one to give the benefit of the doubt or not.

So you would "probably" have used your power, thereby causing a no-lynch? I asked this question in direct response to the following:

1) You see, Huntress unwillingness to lynch Goat at deadline make absolutly zero sense from a town standpoint:
- and lynch is always better than nolynch, especially in the situation yesterday when faced with a cult: nolynch is like giving scum a free cult and a free kill
- she claimed vanilla, hence she could not have been sure Goat was not scum

This makes me think that the most probable mafia/cult counts Goat and Huntress in its members. That or she is moronically obtuse town which is always a chance. If Huntress is town I would like to see her giving a solid explanation on why she thought it was better to let nolynch happen.

I wanted to see how genuine your comments about no-lynch really were. You correctly say that as a vanilla I could not have been sure about Goat, but shouldn't that also apply to you? Apparently you think it's acceptable if you're causing it but not acceptable if you can blame it on me.
And incidently, how was I alone to blame for no-lynch at deadline when Goat had only three of the five votes required? In fact, five hours earlier he only had two. What about the other four who didn't vote for him?

You see, this is the exact kind of argument that makes me think you are scum. It is based on superficial logic that actually present no insight on the game.

Here the gist of your accusation seems to be 'haha, contradiction'.

But you see, the difference between you and me is that I was expressively given a role by the mod, which make me think the outcome of which is also protown. You on the other hand has no such reason for letting the no-lynch happen.

Because it looked like you you were trying to protect EA by turning the voting to me or Goat.

What did you think of Goat asking for an extension then?

Note here that you show up as strongly linked to Goat, which makes me really worry about EA being and organized bus to protect Goat.



[/quote]

[springlullaby]

It's time to reach a decision. At the moment the biggest uncertainty is Xtoxm fakeclaiming on his result. Because poison when I already claimed cook, then marline spike while Huntress already claimed it is not to difficult to fake if Xtoxm were scum. If he is SK, he would know the kills were SK kills, and would want to put the priority elsewhere when Clockwork came out with the cult info. If he was cult himself, he would know the kill didn't come from his faction.

But I've read him as town all along. And that kind of gambit would take some balls, which is respectable.

Goat can be discarded. I'll respect the play if EA was a bus. But if the Potates meta-clear is fake, then it's the mod fault for making it possible.

Clock can be dismissed as SK as per Goat, and I do not think revealing cult make sense as cult. Plus I believe in the officer rank.

Vote Huntress

[springlullaby]

If it's a gambit, then kuddos.

[springlullaby]

Cardflip plox?

[springlullaby]

open the rum

[springlullaby]

Nah, I'm not SK. I'm paranoid gun owner, so whatever the result, town wins.

[springlullaby]

Huh, you made a save? Who did you save?

[springlullaby]

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

[springlullaby]

Lol, that was easier than I expected, I thought the CL was still alive, and had to make the right decision upon killing Goat or Xtoxm to avoid being killed myself as I had prime kill power.

[springlullaby]

Nah, if you lynched me, I was dead the day after because my power is oneshot.

[springlullaby]

And I would probably have targetted Huntress to avoid being killed, so that would have been me, Clock, Xtoxm, and Goat. And I would have been lynched easy.

[springlullaby]

No, Huntress pretty much knew I was SK, and I knew she was cult. I think had she lived she would have targetted me to get rid of the concurrence, plus I was breathing down her neck pretty hard.

I would have targetted her because I could let the cult live and outscum me.

Of course I didn't know the CL was already dead.

[springlullaby]

*couldn't

[springlullaby]

Oh by the way, I could make the day go into nolynch only before the hammer. So I kinda have been refreshing this page like mad.

[springlullaby]

Well, I liked this game.

The flavor was very nice. Balance-wise, I think it was ok, I've played in more scum heavy mini which resulted in a town win (Darkstalkers mafia). The only thing that may have been harsh was MM's PR, she was pretty much a scum bait. But town was pretty powerful, what with Xtoxm's role being an automatic one and the multi doc abilities.

I think that ultimatly town lose because it played very badly the first couple of days, giving scum a lot of ammo. And I think I won because there was always someone scummier than me.


Things which worked for me:

The one thing which helped me the most was the other scum team not playing their cards to their advantage and being really scummy. The cult scare made the SK background noise (turned out they weren't much of a cult at all), and there is EA's move on Goat which was pretty bizarre.

The massclaim, that was pretty much a really bad move for town as it permitted me to target militant, who was the single biggest menace to me as he could have isolated me as the obv SK.

Town disbelieving my being scum with my claim, then subsequently town disbelieving that I could have that power after it was clear I was SK. I think Huntress could have seen that one coming as she knew that her scumteam had multi-abilities, had she pressed the point I'm sure Goat would have been easily persuaded to lynch me first, and Xtoxm could have been convinced eventually.

Thing which worked against me and gave me a scare:

Potates' meta confirming Goat as not the SK. I sent complaint PM's to the mod for this one. D5 was already very thin air threading for me, then I discover the meta and thought it so very unfair because Goat was the perfect scapegoat (ha) for the SK role, and I'm sure Xtoxm was already pretty distrusting of him.

Originally what I thought with my claim was that I could use it if it looked like I was going to get lynched, and retcon the day after by saying that I though I was already hammered, that I misread my PM and that twilight was the last timeslot I could use it. The fact that my power worked should have lent me some town point, and I think I could have persuaded people to lynch Goat as the SK.

The meta clearing Goat left me without a lifeline and made me preserving my oneshot essential.

Note on scumplay:

OMGUS, with a side-dish of buddying up to Xtoxm was the best thing I did as day strategy. Sometimes I thought I was being too obvious, I pretty much attacked every single player who raised a voice against me, but it worked in undermining my attackers and I think had I been more placating, it would have worked against me. In Clock's case I think it worked because he dismissed me as scum after our D2 exchange.

I also really liked the moment I thought up the word 'coercion' in defending against Goat, I think the emotional charge of the word gave him pause.


All in all, this game was a well thought out and original setup. It is kinda unfortunate for town that they didn't get more experienced players from the start.

[springlullaby]

I still feel we made the right choice in lynching Huntress. We couldn't have known that SL had an ability to endgame screw us, and it's always better to go for the guaranteed scum first. With Xtoxm's information, Huntress was almost 100% guaranteed to be scum. Combine that with the possibility that recruiting was still possible from the cult and our decision was easy.

But you see, had Clockwork investigated once, with Xtoxm's role, I would have been burned scum far earlier.

I'm glad I didn't try to kill him earlier, as I figured he would be protected. I'm also glad I was aggressive toward him D2, because I think it was at this point that he dismissed me as scum.

Seriously, his investigation of Goat N4 was pretty much a throwaway, as it had already been established in thread that Goat couldn't be scum. This queer choice of investigation is also what made me target him N5 as it didn't make sense and made me think he was the remaining cult.

I think town had a lot of cards but suffered from inexperience.

[springlullaby]

1. Recruitment. I personally despise this mechanic

LOL. I have this thing (fetish?) for trying to use globally despised mechanics in a way that people will like. My last game had way too many masons and a flavor-reveal mechanic. With this one I tried recruitment and survivors. Less successfully, methinks.

Nah, I think pitting SK against a cult is the correct decision every time. It's natural enmity, SK don't want to be outscummed, cult don't want their member to be decimated, which always work in favour of town.

I got really lucky with the Jebus kill.

[springlullaby]

Oh yeah, my role was waaay cool. Thanks mod for the game.

And this should prove once and for all that ninjas are vastly superior to pirates :p

[springlullaby]

There were a lot of cards on the table against Clockwork. His role, his investigation choices, even the claim that he could deny recruitment seemed off. After I escaped lynching on day 3, I read through the game during that night phase and came to the realization that Clockwork simply didn't make sense as scum behaviorally. Some of his earlier interactions (day 1) with EA and Jebus really seemed weird if they were scum together. I kept a little pressure on him day 4 just in case I was wrong, but I think he answered those questions fine. Xtoxm was fairly obviously town the moment he swung the tables to get EA lynched instead of me.

I didn't mean he played badly, but I was looking for the CL who wasn't there, and he came off as the scummiest. I think, after he claimed, he got sucked into that state of indecision and worrying more about his night actions than scumhunting. Strangely enough, the ability to refuse the recruitment never made me doubt Clockwork, it just didn't make sense for him to reveal the cult when no one knew.

Was I correct in saying you killed him simply because he was suspicious of you? Or was there another reason?

Yes, though I thought she had a strong chance of being scum too, I also genuinely believed you had a big chance of being cult due to the Huntress no-lynch when I tried to kill you.

Note, due to my role at the beginning of the game, I actually thought that it would be a ninja vs pirates things with multiple SK's. And ridiculously enough, I killed Tekkactus because of this post:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 25#1326125
The 'high frequency' thing struck me as ninja-ish , plus the low posting.

-------------------------

Note on the setup. Now I'm thinking giving the town a vig or a oneshot vig could have been nice without it being unbalanced, and I was actually expecting one. Give more edge to the SK's priority of kill ability. The parrot could have been a oneshot vig to reward them. And the flavour could have to be something along the line of it pecking a guys' eyes out , and them comically throwing themselves overboard in pain and panic as a result.

[springlullaby]

Well, the trick with arguments when you are scum is that it is not whether you think they are good ones that is important, but whether you think you can get away with them. Carrying them off with assurance is a bonus to mislead peoples' town reading. Which are the basic rules to lying really.

When I'm town I'm actually wary of scumlinks arguments even after one flipped scum, too easy to manipulate and too easy to get distracted by.

[springlullaby]

Actually now that I'm thinking of it, the only thing that I don't like in this setup is Jebus being a bomber. It's always unfair for town and competing scumteams to penalize a correct lynch. It was averted this game and the mechanism of Jebus being a potential kamikaze to save EA was interesting, but I think bobby trap type roles that no one can see coming are just not workable.

A link you may find interesting:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... ht=#955510
Mini I cited earlier with 5 scums which resulted on a town win: 1 cult leader, 2 mafia, 1 SK, 1 survivor + 1 vig which turned into a SK upon an incorrect kill.

I think the one thing beside better play on town's part in the Darkstalkers game which made the difference was not rushing into massclaim.