Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[ClockworkRuse]

Vote Militant.

Any militia is a threat to us pirates, obviously he is a mole of some sort.

[ClockworkRuse]

Unvote

Wow, that was a little unnecessary.

FoS

Jebus and EA. Bandwagoning in the RVS isn't good.

[ClockworkRuse]

Unvote

Wow, that was a little unnecessary.

FoS

Jebus and EA. Bandwagoning in the RVS isn't good.

Unvote, Vote: ClockworkRuse

What was so bad about Militant having more than one vote?

Being almost halfway to a lynch with the first... six or seven posts of the game?

Are you honestly okay with that?

[ClockworkRuse]

Being almost halfway to a lynch with the first... six or seven posts of the game?

Are you honestly okay with that?

Yes. It's L-4. What's so bad about L-4?

I'm more interested in why you FoSed Jebus for putting on the second vote, though.

what reason could you possibly have for band wagoning so early?

People don't react to the votes being evenly spread out. Wagons get reactions.

Because it essentially opened him up for the wagon you joined, are you telling me it's scummy to be suspicious of a wagon starting like that?

[ClockworkRuse]

Because it essentially opened him up for the wagon you joined, are you telling me it's scummy to be suspicious of a wagon starting like that?

Starting like

what

? You're not saying anything about why you think Jebus's and my votes are scummy, you're just saying that they were. That rhetoric is unhelpful.

People don't react to the votes being evenly spread out. Wagons get reactions.

I'm with you matey.

unvote, vote: erratus apathos

React please.

I see what you did there.

Yer off ta a fine start, me mateys! I almost fergots ta tell ye... come hair nor high water, this watch'll end on Sunday, November 15th, at 15:00 MST (GMT-7).

An if me shipmates be too lily-libbered teh lynch by then, then what, Capn?

I don't like the fact that you put the third vote on someone, which is just about halfway to a lynch with six posts. Granted the chances of someone getting lynched like that are small, I don't see any positive reasoning for it. You might say to get reactions, but I personally have never liked that excuse.

[ClockworkRuse]

I don't like the fact that you put the third vote on someone, which is just about halfway to a lynch with six posts. Granted the chances of someone getting lynched like that are small, I don't see any positive reasoning for it. You might say to get reactions, but I personally have never liked that excuse.

Well if you don't think I voted militant to get reactions, then what do you think my reason for voting militant was?

The only other reason I can really see would be to join a wagon, but I'm not really sure. I'm actually starting to lean away from my suspicion and believe you. Meta-wise, you were a lot more quiet as scum during the first day and you really wouldn't have done something like that. I'm still going to keep my eye on you though.

Right MiteyMouse, I'll tell you right now that for meta reasons I think your restriction smells rotten.

Now let's see what you are made of: one squawk for yes, two sqwawks for no.

Are you a parrot?
How many words beside the emotes between asterisks are you allowed to use?(1 squawk for 1 word, 2 squawks for 2 words, 3 for 3, etc.)
Can you vote?
Can you fos?
Can you post multiple post (double posts, triple posts, etc.)
Can you communicate through codes with the emotes?
Are you willing to be lynched today because you look pretty useless to me?

I don't like the idea of lynching someone just because they are useless. We should lynch on suspicions, not because someone may or may not be able to help the town. And all we need to do is work out the code.

Is Fetch the Rum a code for voting? Since that's what the captain called in the beginning when he was looking for his Cabin Boy?

Squawks are yes and no's, I suppose.

MM, are you suspicious of me? One squawk for yes, two for no.

[ClockworkRuse]

EBWOP: She said Pretty Bird when she voted EA, has she said it since?

And strike the Fetch the Rum comment, it is obviously incorrect.

[ClockworkRuse]

Squawks are yes and no's, I suppose.

MM, are you suspicious of me? One squawk for yes, two for no.

Not yet

Alright. The first time you said Yo ho ho was when you quoted something I said. I think you said Interesting Yo ho ho.

So that isn't a sign of suspicion?

[ClockworkRuse]

FoS

Voting without reasons on day two.

Explanations?

[ClockworkRuse]

FoS

Voting without reasons on day two.

Explanations?

Tell me, can you explain what difference it makes that we are in day two?

Because there should be enough to go off of now to at least start discussion. The fact that you are just going for another RVS day two serves to do nothing. We DO have enough to start hunting without these votes.

Now tell me exactly what you are thinking by voting randomly.

[ClockworkRuse]

Sorry if this is really obvious but why are you guys voting Potates and Crywolf?

The only reason I can fathom is that because not a lot of discussion went on on D1 and not a lot was learnt from the night kills, you are random voting until someone does something which is warrants discussion in which case you will unvote and re vote appropiatly.

It wasn't random (I specifically picked Potates because he only posted once), but that's the gist of it.

Then please say so when you begin to vote. But my FoS stays on this bandwagon.

[ClockworkRuse]

I notice with great interest that you are claiming that 'there should be enough to start a discussion' but are not forthcoming with examples yourself.

To answer your question, I'm thinking I will generate discussion by voting. And look, discussion there is.

Unvote, Vote ClockworkRuse

I think your fos sucks, it is superficial and empty of reasoning. Tell me, if you think that there are points of interest in yesterday's happenings that should be discussed, why aren't you pointing them out instead of calling people out for not discussing them?

Look back at yesterday. I

DID

point things out.

Specifically, the wagon that started from the random voting. There is enough for you to go back and read to find what you find scummy.

So now you answer me this; How is it pro-town to start a second random vote instead of re-reading what we've already done and start discussion right away?

Instead, you chose to waste more the our time by going through a pointless vote that does absolutely

nothing.[/i] But obviously my FoS was without reasoning, right?

Explain to me how another random vote helps the town.

I will go back and find things that I've found scummy, but the lack of interest of re-reading day one on your part is noted.

[ClockworkRuse]

Because it essentially opened him up for the wagon you joined, are you telling me it's scummy to be suspicious of a wagon starting like that?

Starting like

what

? You're not saying anything about why you think Jebus's and my votes are scummy, you're just saying that they were. That rhetoric is unhelpful.

People don't react to the votes being evenly spread out. Wagons get reactions.

I'm with you matey.

unvote, vote: erratus apathos

React please.

I see what you did there.

Yer off ta a fine start, me mateys! I almost fergots ta tell ye... come hair nor high water, this watch'll end on Sunday, November 15th, at 15:00 MST (GMT-7).

An if me shipmates be too lily-libbered teh lynch by then, then what, Capn?

I don't like the fact that you put the third vote on someone, which is just about halfway to a lynch with six posts. Granted the chances of someone getting lynched like that are small, I don't see any positive reasoning for it. You might say to get reactions, but I personally have never liked that excuse.

[It wasn't rhetoric that was the problem, by the way. I just wasn't being concise. =D]

EBWOP;

See this, although I'm not sure how I feel about EA's play so fair. The last time I played with him, where I was scum as well, he preferred to sit back and let the town go at it and just make minor opinions. However, I don't find any of the actions he's made so far to be particularly pro-town.

Right MiteyMouse, I'll tell you right now that for meta reasons I think your restriction smells rotten.

Now let's see what you are made of: one squawk for yes, two sqwawks for no.

Are you a parrot?
How many words beside the emotes between asterisks are you allowed to use?(1 squawk for 1 word, 2 squawks for 2 words, 3 for 3, etc.)
Can you vote?
Can you fos?
Can you post multiple post (double posts, triple posts, etc.)
Can you communicate through codes with the emotes?
Are you willing to be lynched today because you look pretty useless to me?

I didn't really state much suspicion on this yesterday, besides that fact that I didn't like that fact that you were willing to lynch someone who is useless. Now I'm going to explain why I think you might be scum because of it.

If you were scum, you would be looking for the easiest lynch possible. Lynching someone who looks "useless" would open that up.

[ClockworkRuse]

I like how you say 'waste more of our time', it is a strange notion.

And actually I reread day one and though that voting was a good thing to do.

What do you mean by strange notion?

Please, an answer to my questions.

[ClockworkRuse]

I was just interested in the intent of the question. Could I have a link to that game please?

And could you please answer the other questions in the post above that, how does another Random Voting Stage help us?

What was a strange notion?

[ClockworkRuse]

I like how you say 'waste more of our time', it is a strange notion.

And actually I reread day one and though that voting was a good thing to do.

What do you mean by strange notion?

Please, an answer to my questions.

Crossposted, see above for answer.

By strange notion I mean that I think it is incongruous to invoke time as a frame for the game, I think it is the first time I see it used this way. It may be scummy or not. So whose time am I wasting exactly? Does my voting impede my answering you? Does it impede my generating content? Does it impede other people's ability to chirp in and contribute? Has time really a relevance here?

It impedes that towns time for hunting, although I would say it has opened more discussion today... So maybe this is a moot point?

[ClockworkRuse]

Just a thought: if MM knew something yesterday and posted his codes accordingly, could this possibly help us?

And

vote: Clockwork

Time for a pressure wagon, I'll go with springlullaby on this one.

There is not a great deal to say at the minute in my opinion. I am just waiting for Clock to reply to the questions that have been asked of him.

Answer what? I've answered the questions that have been asked.

Jebus, if you are going to pressure me... How about something to go along with it? Questions or suspicions that I can respond to?

[ClockworkRuse]

It impedes that towns time for hunting, although I would say it has opened more discussion today... So maybe this is a moot point?

Man, why are you asking me?

I believe this question is aimed at you.

It was a rhetorical question, not something I was really asking anyone.

[ClockworkRuse]

I'm interested in pressuring you because of the first page, where you are suspicious of a random wagon that got to L-4 in five posts, and took no steam afterwords.

Why do I do this? It might lead somewhere.

And did you see why I lost my steam? I posted it a while ago. My meta f EA tells me that he wouldn't have joined a wagon like that as Scum.

[ClockworkRuse]

I'm interested in pressuring you because of the first page, where you are suspicious of a random wagon that got to L-4 in five posts, and took no steam afterwords.

Why do I do this? It might lead somewhere.

And did you see why I lost my steam? I posted it a while ago. My meta f EA tells me that he wouldn't have joined a wagon like that as Scum.

Your wording confuses me. Clarify please?

I played a game with EA not too long ago, we were both scum. In the game, and I can try to find a link if you want it, where he sat back and let the town debate more then he was.

But EA, that last post... The same should be said about you, why haven't you been hunting?

[ClockworkRuse]

so Potates flaked, well then

unvote

no one here has any tells to go on, and it's looking like some random pressure wagons are trying to form.

I guess I'll throw my support behind one of em

vote clockworkruse

Alright then, what exactly about my wagon made you think you should join it?

Is there nothing you've found scummy so far?

[ClockworkRuse]

well to be honest I thought you were third on the D1 instant wagon, but now that I reread I can see you were first.

but while my vote's here, may I ask why you jumped off the wagon so quickly? surely he wouldn't have been lynched that quickly, if anyone was foolhardy enough to hammer that without at least a claim would have made out D2 choice for us. So what I am asking is, why so skittish?

Because EA's third vote made me feel uneasy and I decided that I was going to push EA on the matter. I did, if you look back. It's not that I was skittish, but that I found someone else I was interested in.

[ClockworkRuse]

unvote
Vote: Clockwork

A bit on the opportunistic side, but I think we can get something nice from a pressure wagon on Clockwork.

Like what? I get that you are wagoning me, I'm fine with it. But don't just wagon and leave it at that.

How are any of you fishing for reactions without actually trying to get a reaction out of me?

What about my wagon seems to be pleasing to you?

What are you looking for, Jebus?

[ClockworkRuse]

In reverse of how you asked:

I'm looking for two things:
1) Scum
2) More discussion

Your wagon seems pleasing because of your odd overly-strong objection to a random wagon that had 3/7 votes on it.

I am fishing for reactions from you, so I am trying to get a reaction.

I'm not wagoning and leaving it at that. I'm wagoning, getting some discussion going, and wagoning again if I don't find what I want.

See, the funny thing about it is... You really didn't try to start any discussion with your vote.

Tell me why I'm wrong for being opposed to a wagon that started six posts into the game? As I see it, that line of questioning was attempting to start discussion and place pressure on someone who I found scummy. What was wrong with it?

[ClockworkRuse]

Nothing was wrong with the line of questioning, just the major objection to a random wagon. What's wrong with a wagon that goes three votes? It's not like it's going to result in a lynch, as I'm sure you could've figured.

I don't really need to try to start discussion, that's what the wagon does.

Its the amount of time between the votes. It made me feel uncomfortable that a wagon had started after six posts, as I've said before.

[ClockworkRuse]

That still doesn't hold more weight than a random wagon that goes as far made over the first page. Point is, it went nowhere. It probably wouldn't have gone further, either.

... So I'm not really sure what your point is.

You find it scummy that I tried to start discussion by attacking a very early wagon?

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I find it scummy that you attacked an early wagon in the random stage. Trying to start discussion other than random on page 1 is something I've not yet seen done on this site.

So it's scummy to start discussion early on?

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I find it scummy that you attacked an early wagon in the random stage. Trying to start discussion other than random on page 1 is something I've not yet seen done on this site.

So it's scummy to start discussion early on?

I disagree..It isn't scummy to try to get a convo going. The way you go about trying to get a conversation going however could be scummy.

Alright, then explain how it is scummy. Don't just say "It might be scummy if you do this..." Explain yourself and explain your thoughts. How was I scummy by pressuring EA? You've all said that you found it scummy that I didn't like a wagon that started

six posts

into the game. Explain how that makes me scum.

You've made accusations, now back them up.

@Gremwell, You better start explaining yourself too.

[ClockworkRuse]

Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Avast!

Capt'n, give a prod to Potates, militant, Squirrel, and humscunter would ye?

Enough with yer bilge, ye scalawag kraken... Answer me questions.

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I find it scummy that you attacked an early wagon in the random stage. Trying to start discussion other than random on page 1 is something I've not yet seen done on this site.

So it's scummy to start discussion early on?

I disagree..It isn't scummy to try to get a convo going. The way you go about trying to get a conversation going however could be scummy.

Alright, then explain how it is scummy. Don't just say "It might be scummy if you do this..." Explain yourself and explain your thoughts. How was I scummy by pressuring EA? You've all said that you found it scummy that I didn't like a wagon that started

six posts

into the game. Explain how that makes me scum.

You've made accusations, now back them up.

@Gremwell, You better start explaining yourself too.

[ClockworkRuse]

Is the above triple post another Post restriction or something? In fact is there a post restriction on the entire town, nay, ship that prevent people from posting or something?

Right now I think that Clockwork-Ruse has show a relative level of participation which deserve my unvoting him.

I agree with Goatrevolt case on Gremwell, and I do not like the lack of response.

Unvote, Vote Gremwell

I encourage people to vote him.

Vote: Springlullaby

I even made the question to you in bold. Please, go back and answer the questions.

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I find it scummy that you attacked an early wagon in the random stage. Trying to start discussion other than random on page 1 is something I've not yet seen done on this site.

So it's scummy to start discussion early on?

I disagree..It isn't scummy to try to get a convo going. The way you go about trying to get a conversation going however could be scummy.

Alright, then explain how it is scummy. Don't just say "It might be scummy if you do this..." Explain yourself and explain your thoughts. How was I scummy by pressuring EA? You've all said that you found it scummy that I didn't like a wagon that started

six posts

into the game. Explain how that makes me scum.

You've made accusations, now back them up.

@Gremwell, You better start explaining yourself too.

I'm quoting it again, because this was to everyone on my wagon.

Also, you say that you unvoted me because I was participating, correct?

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I find it scummy that you attacked an early wagon in the random stage. Trying to start discussion other than random on page 1 is something I've not yet seen done on this site.

So it's scummy to start discussion early on?

I disagree..It isn't scummy to try to get a convo going. The way you go about trying to get a conversation going however could be scummy.

Alright, then explain how it is scummy. Don't just say "It might be scummy if you do this..." Explain yourself and explain your thoughts. How was I scummy by pressuring EA? You've all said that you found it scummy that I didn't like a wagon that started

six posts

into the game. Explain how that makes me scum.

You've made accusations, now back them up.

@Gremwell, You better start explaining yourself too.

I'm quoting it again, because this was to everyone on my wagon.

Also, you say that you unvoted me because I was participating, correct?

What?

First, how were I to guess that these questions were addressed to me? You are quoting crywolf in there.

Second, how does these questions apply to me in the first place? Where did I say that you were scummy for pressuring EA?

Third, read the thread, I the reason of my every vote and unvote clear.

Seriously, do you really pay attention?

I think it would have been better if I just restated the questions, looking back on that it is a little confusing.

First of all, don't patronize me with a "did you really pay attention." Did you or did you not unvote me because you thought I was participating? I'm asking for clarification.

Second, how did you feel about the issue of me breaking off of a wagon and going after EA?

More to come, I'm sure.

[ClockworkRuse]

I think it would have been better if I just restated the questions, looking back on that it is a little confusing.

How you could have expected people to understand that you question was addressed to 'everyone on my wagon' the way it was presented is beyond me.

And you know what, I think you confused me with crywolf, which is not scummy, but not owning up to the fact somewhat is.

First of all, don't patronize me with a "did you really pay attention." Did you or did you not unvote me because you thought I was participating? I'm asking for clarification.

Why you need to ask for a clarification is what I'm questioning, it is not, as your question make it appears to be, as if I did not made myself clear in the first place.

And yes, I did unvote you because at least you chirped in more than a number of other people and showed a a minimum of effort at scumhunting.

Second, how did you feel about the issue of me breaking off of a wagon and going after EA?

I assume that you are talking about you FOS'ing people bandwagonning EA on day 1.

If so, I think that bandwagonning in the RSV stage is not indicative of alignment, subsquently that the motif you invoked for suspecting people wasn't a strong one, but I also think that it is an ok starting point to start off discussion.

In clear, I think it's a null tell from you.

Ye best be explainin yerself lass. What yer talkin' bout "lack of response?"

Yes you're right, I got my timeline confused. For some reason that your vote on Gremwell has gone unanswered for longer than it really had.



-------------------------------------------------------------------

Gremwell, the mechanism behind the RSV stage is to place votes to provoke reactions, reactions you can then analyse to place a better vote and start off 'real' discussion.

This means that random vote is not a goal in itself but a mean to achieve a better level of information, and that they are only acceptable if one show willingness to built better cases upon them.

I have yet to see any real contribution from you despite three random votes today, so yes, your vote hopping is very scummy.

I ask you again, who do you think is scummy and why?

And you told me I didn't pay attention.

I FoSed EA for bandwagoning very early in the game, just six posts in actually. A few people have brought up the point and called me scummy because of it. Please re-read day one, which shouldn't be much of a challenge, and express your views.

And as for why I needed clarification, you didn't originally vote me for not participating. You voted me for being suspicious of a second random vote stage, how does my participation affect your views of that at all?

[ClockworkRuse]

I FoSed EA for bandwagoning very early in the game, just six posts in actually. A few people have brought up the point and called me scummy because of it. Please re-read day one, which shouldn't be much of a challenge, and express your views.

I got the names mixed up, I was referring to you FOS'ing Jebus and EA day 1 here:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 60#1324360

Are we talking about the same event? If so, my answer stands.

And as for why I needed clarification, you didn't originally vote me for not participating. You voted me for being suspicious of a second random vote stage, how does my participation affect your views of that at all?

1. No I did not vote your for not participating, I voted you for FOS'ing people for crappy reasons.

2. Your participation affect my view of you in the sense that at least you seem to be making an effort at questionning people. Compared to total non-committal and vote hopping it makes you less of a priority.

So you believe that lurking is greater than "crappy" FoS's in the scum radar area?

And that's actually kind of funny... because through my FoS's, we started discussion. =D

Going to be looking at the wagons later today. Be prepared for questions.

[ClockworkRuse]

As EA has pointed out, there is no lynch at deadline. This

REALLY

pisses me off though. This speed lynch stupidity is going to hurt us.

As I see it, we can get a lot of information from a Gremwell lynch, especially about crywolf's claim. I would have liked to push Spring a little more but with the extra RVS and the constant lurking, we had a lot of trouble this day.

Vote: Gremwell

[ClockworkRuse]

At the moment Clockwork, Crywolf and EA are looking the scummiest, particularly in the way they rushed the lynch after Goatrevolt seemed to be thinking about taking his vote off Gremwell.

I also note that Jebus jumped off the Gremwell wagon for springlullaby, a highly unlikely play if they were scumbuddies.

Maybe he just didn't want to be associated with the lynch of someone he knew was a townie? And his vote was only the second on SL; she wasn't in any danger. Also can I have a rely to the question in my last post please?

The way I saw it, it was going to give us a lot of information either way. Either we would have hit scum or we would have learned information about Crywolf's claim, which I would love to hear about.

I'm in favor of mass-claiming right now.

[ClockworkRuse]

I'm in favor of mass-claiming right now.

It isn't open and there is a theme. We cannot validate a claim due to the fact it isn't open and scum may have fake claims.

Why do you favour mass claim?

For multiple reasons, we can deduce from flavor and hopeful context who is scum.

I doubt the chances of the scum having fake claims. Actually, I have something a little more important to point out later in the claims.

But, I would love to hear EA claim first if we do decide to go through with this.

[ClockworkRuse]

Hey guys, I finally exist! Y'arrgh? I know I'm gonna face suspicion for saying this, but I think I'm a somewhat weak player. So... yeah. I shall hope to make myself better than the guy who posted 5 times.

Jebus' death last night raises several questions to me, primarily that of who is controlling the kills, since town died one night and scum died another.
Since he was scum, I think Clockwork has to come under consideration because of his FoS on Jebus for being the second voter during the RVS bandwagon, and also for their discussion on page 7 over finding suspicion in an early RVS wagon. The way Jebus put a "pressure wagon" on Clockwork, then abruptly jumped to Gremwell makes me wonder why he actually wagoned Clockwork. Bussing?
Well, that's the main thing I noticed. I'll try to post thoughts on the other players soon.

As for the massclaim idea, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with it, knowing how scum can easily gain an advantage (In my only completed game on this site, <one game>, I looked scummy the whole time, but on a LyLo day, I fakeclaimed jailkeeper, which took me out of suspicion, and gave my scumteam a perfect win.). But I also think town could potentially gain a lot of useful info, so I'll go with it if that's what we decide...

I get your second point, about him possibly bussing, but can you explain what you mean about the bandwagon?

Are you talking about the day one bandwagon? If you are, please explain how that makes me scummy.

I can't answer the question about safe-claims until I claim.

I would still prefer that EA goes first. But, I think dice to find the order would be more appropriate.

[ClockworkRuse]

Why are we planning on mass claiming? I don't think it's a very good idea.

1. We haven't outed any power roles yet. Mass claiming will be sure to do that for us.

2. The flavor is obscured enough that we won't be able to catch anyone on flavor. Crywolf tried to call Gremwell out as lying about his vanilla claim based on flavor, and was wrong. What's to say mass claiming won't just cause us to mislynch a couple vanilla townies based on the idea that their vanilla flavor is wrong?

Well, I'm throwing the idea out there. I think we should hear from everyone and see what they think.

[ClockworkRuse]

Can we please vote in favor/against a mass claim? Just underline your choice.

In favor.

[ClockworkRuse]

Huntress restarted the wagon on crywolf with two days until deadline, and says she thought she thought she could have achieved a crywolf lynch. But when I pushed the idea that Jebus's vote on springlullaby was probably not a distancing attempt, Huntress countered by calling Jebus's vote not threatening. Jebus was the second vote for springlullaby, and cast it before her vote on crywolf - so if Huntress thought a crywolf lynch was plausible, why did she decry my position on springlullaby on the basis of a springlullaby lynch not being plausible?

Firstly, how could I

re-start

a wagon which never existed in the first place? As far as I can see there has never been more than one vote on her at any time. Secondly, I didn't say a Springlullaby lynch wasn't plausible, I said she wasn't in danger, which she wasn't when he switched. Before Jebus jumped, there were four votes on Gremwell (L-2) and you put it back to four before Gremwell put Springlullaby on three. I'm guessing that Jebus wanted to avoid being on the lynch but was too cautious to vote for someone not already on the list in case he got attacked for it.

As to why he chose SL, which you asked in 250 and I missed answering, I don't know. Maybe it was the other way round? Maybe one or both of the other two are his buddies and she isn't? I'm finding all three suspicious for various reasons so it could be either way.



A brief overview of my suspects:

ClockworkRuse: His posts about the day one bandwagon on militant gave me an odd vibe and there are signs of possible distancing from Jebus. I found his day two hammer very scummy. Then in post 253 he tries to dismiss the discussion of the lynch and diverts it by raising the idea of a mass claim. He is my top suspect at the moment.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

Crywolf: For her reaction to Gremwell's claim and her active lurking. Looking at her posts in isolation, there's almost nothing there; a point which she admits herself on a couple of occasions, and has ignored comments made to or about her in the thread.

@ Crywolf: Where do your suspicions lie at the moment?

Erratus Apathos: For the vote on Gremwell despite having no suspicion of him and for the attacks on Goatrevolt which seem to be reaching a lot.

Springlullaby: Not quite sure about her yet. I'm waiting for her responses before saying any more here but for current thoughts see the last paragraph of post 280.


I'm also wondering whether Crywolf and Springlullaby were partly to blame for Mitey-Mouse getting mod-killed in that they were encouraging her to push the boundaries of her post restriction.

When/if we mass claim, then you'll understand.

Either way, I have to claim today.

[ClockworkRuse]

Either way, I have to claim today.

* Is curious *

Firstly, how could I

re-start

a wagon which never existed in the first place? As far as I can see there has never been more than one vote on her at any time.

Both of us were trying to start crywolf wagons, you after me, thus you restarted. Is there even a point to this question or are you just looking for something to nitpick?

Ah. I thought you were implying that I was trying to resurrect a wagon that had previously been built, discussed and discarded. IMO a single vote doesn't equal a wagon.

Secondly, I didn't say a Springlullaby lynch wasn't plausible, I said she wasn't in danger

...and the difference is what exactly?

The difference is that a Springlullaby lynch

was

plausible, but a second vote didn't put her in immediate danger when six votes were needed to lynch.

You'll see after everyone votes for claiming.

[ClockworkRuse]

See the above. Plus I want to claim

because

of my role.

I'm indifferent to this either way. If the majority of the town disagrees, then I will claim by myself.

Oh, and flavor lynching is absolutely horrible in this game.

[ClockworkRuse]

D=

V/LA

For the time being. This is going to hinder things a bit. I'm going to have minimal access for the next few days. Maybe an hour tops.

I'll try to stay as active as I can here.

[ClockworkRuse]

Requesting Deadline extension for claiming.

[ClockworkRuse]

I think we can't role claim yet. I can't believe I didn't realize this sooner.

I doubt that there is a doctor. I was going to save this for claiming, but maybe it will be better if I just claim and give what I know out now.

First of all; I am the First Mate. I have an investigative role that allows me to see the roles but not the powers or alignments of other players, happens once per night.

Last night, the Scum tried to recruit me. I denied it. I was also roleblocked last night, maybe something to do with the recruitment thing. Anyways, that might explain why there was no kill. A kill plus a recruit would be minus two townies a night, that would break the game. So I'm thinking scum can either kill or recruit.

I investigated crywolf last night but I was blocked.

I'm going to save my other investigation until that person claims.

I'm going against the mass claim now though. We may not have a doctor and that would really mess everything up.

[ClockworkRuse]

Huntress, what are you thinking about my claim?

[ClockworkRuse]

Yeh, it's odd. Sorry for not commenting on it. He's telling the truth though. I have some infomation with my role, and what we have is a Cult and an SK, i'm pretty sure. Probably no Mafia. (Although the "scum" is probably a recruiting Mafia, but that's just basically a Cult.)

So we probably started with only 2 scum, and the SK.

Either Clock was allowed to refuse as part of his role (highly likely imo)

or everyone is allowed to refuse. I think it's likely there was a sucessful recruit the first night, and that we have 2 scum atm. I think a recruitee that died would reveal as something like "betrayer" or something along those lines, and that Jebus started as scum, being a Man-At-Arms.

Both night kills were by the SK.

The PM I received said I had the choice because I wan an officer. I suppose that means anyone who was given the rank of officer in their role PM will have the choice.

Also, looking over the Recruitment PM, night powers remain the same after recruitment.

The fact that we have an SK is news though.

Goatrevolt; See the above explaination as to why I had the choice to join the mutiny or not.

Xtoxm; How do you know there is an SK and cult though?

[ClockworkRuse]

There is a Cult because they tried to recruit you, there is an SK because he made the 2 nightkills.

Everyone should keep quiet whether they are an officer or not...Just tells scum who to recruit.

I agree about the last bit.

I also know an officer already, which is why I'm not revealing that information. We need to decide on a suitable lynch soon.

[ClockworkRuse]

I think the way you went about claiming was fairly townie, which is why I'm backing off. As for your role itself, I don't see it as being an alignment indicator at all. A role that knows how kills were made is easy to fake if: A. You're a SK making the kills.

B: You're part of a mafia team that doesn't control a kill.

This is still assuming that the mafia can't kill.

The way I see it, if we are looking at Xtoxm-scum, he could easily lie to force the town to look for more scum. Saying that the 'mafia', the mutinous little scalawags, can't kill and can only recruit would benefit them.

I am not okay with EA being the lynch for today. Huntress has been coming off pretty pro-town to me to.

Goat, you've already hinted that you are a power role so I don't see why you don't just claim. Also, if we don't lynch we only help scum. It makes no sense not to lynch. I don't like your attitude toward either of those.

Vote: Goat

[ClockworkRuse]

You already have my role. I was blocked again.

[ClockworkRuse]

Goat, were you told you were unsuccessful?

[ClockworkRuse]

Vote: Goatrevolt

I can confirm EA's role name and it doesn't seem to benefit scum to fake-claim tracker.

[ClockworkRuse]

Mod: Prods just went out, right?

[ClockworkRuse]

Well I see where you're coming from, but I didn't really consider it because of CR backing him up...

Well i'll

Unvote

but i'm not sure I see a way EA can be scum.

CR is probably a scum buddy. Does it make any sense from a game design standpoint for officers to have an option to either accept or decline an offer to mutiny?

The only time I've ever seen recruitment in a game it has been designed in such a way that recruitment is successful on X, Y, Z and will fail on Q, E. I've never seen it in such a way that a choice is given.

I'm also skeptical of CR based on the idea of him getting roleblocked again. That is my main reason for expressing suspicion of his claim today. Has anyone else been roleblocked? The reason I'm skeptical is because his play makes complete sense from the perspective of him getting recruited. He gets recruited. Then the following night he mysteriously is roleblocked (from a roleblocker nobody has seen before), preventing his role from providing any pro-town help.

Well, firstly, you are trying to outguess the mod with this whole "Chances of there being a choice to being recruited = nil" little tangent you had. Oh, and if EA is the SK and I had been recruited, we wouldn't be buddies. At least it seems that way to me. It looks like we've got a cult and an SK.

Second, would it make sense for me to come out and tell the town that we have a cult if I was culted? What benefit would there be in that?

Third, I believed EA's claim for other reasons. But I do see where you are coming from in your last post. It's possible that EA was culted. The note I received says that the culted's roles and powers stay the same, their alignment just changes. So I can see where it would make sense that would happen.

Fourth,

Unvote

. I want to see EA's response to all of this.

EA, why did you sit on this investigation?

Goat, why are you so sure there isn't a RBer or something of the sort if everyone hasn't claimed yet? Chances could be good that the Cult has some form of RBer.

[ClockworkRuse]

The note that tried to recruit me. I am still town.

I needed to see what he would claim. At the time, I was hoping to see if I could catch him in a lie.

And Goat, the note I received says that if you choose to be culted you keep your power.


I think we are missing some claims, aren't we?

[ClockworkRuse]

@Goat; I am trying to take a stand. But I really need to re-read this day and Day Two first. Expect a post later tonight.

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I investigated Goat last night because something just didn't sit well with me. Confirmed the role name but it's still possible you could be culted.

Two kills is interesting.

I need to read back, I've missed a lot.

[ClockworkRuse]

No, I investigated Goat last night because something just didn't sit well with me. Confirmed the role name but it's still possible you could be culted.

You investigated me last night after EA showed up as scum around the idea that I was cult? Can you explain your rationale for this a bit more, because that doesn't really make any sense.

It's possible Crywolf was the SK, but I assumed she was a neutral survivor based on the description.

I don't know why people are still getting hung on the idea of me being scum. The amount of hoops you have to go through for me to actually be scum is ridiculous. It makes no sense for me to be the serial killer based on post 455 alone. Factor in my play yesterday, factor in the idea that there's no possible way EA was telling the truth (based on the logic I pointed out over and over again) and it doesn't make sense. I make 0 sense as Cult. For me to be cult, that means EA lied to paint his own cult buddy as a serial killer, which would have still drawn suspicion to his claim the following day when I turned up non-SK. In other words, he throws away himself to get rid of one of his own scum buddies? Not going to happen.

I guess it's possible I got recruited last night or you can find some other other extreme scenario that took place where I could be scum, but do honestly believe those to be likely? I don't think anyone was recruited last night because I doubt the mafia can both kill and recruit, and I'm guessing the 2nd kill was courtesy of the mafia. I highly doubt it's a vig (and would love to hear why Springlullaby seems to want to portray the notion that it could be) because nobody claimed vig. I'm guessing the mafia can either recruit or kill or something to that extent.

Maybe my playstyle rubs you the wrong way, or you're scum and looking for another mislynch or whatever it is. Regardless, I don't see how a townie can come to the conclusion that I'm scum without having to delude themselves on a ton of different levels. Lynching EA yesterday was a nice cornerstone, because we got rid of scum and confirmed me as town. Now let's move on to catching the real scum.

---------

I feel fairly confident Springlullaby is scum even if we're looking at nothing more than her posts today. Repeatedly asking people to claim SK is not pro-town. It doesn't actually do anything beneficial to town. Do you honestly believe a SK is going to simply say "ok, since you asked me so nicely, yes I'm a serial killer. And now that I've ruined any chance of winning by giving that information to the town, you can go forth and lynch me now!" Seriously, asking people to claim SK without providing any reasoning why a SK would claim accomplishes nothing. All it does is try to plant the notion in the town's mind that you are town because you're "hunting the serial killer." Additionally, I think SL's repeated stance that "she hopes the 2nd kill is a vig kill" is a nice cover up for the fact that she is the mafia member who made the kill last night. It makes no sense to assume it's a vig kill. I think the reason she's assuming it's a vig kill is to try to play off the idea that "she was unaware mafia had a kill" or something like that.

Furthermore, I want to point out the sheer ridiculousness in the fact that springlullaby tried to paint me as scum because I was "hunting the serial killer and not cult." Read through her posts today. How many of her posts pertain towards finding the serial killer or asking people if they are the serial killer? How many are related towards finding the cult? Hypocrisy for the loss.

Then if you look further back through the thread you see her weakly pressure EA a couple times in a very insincere manner. She calls out EA on two occasions, but doesn't pursue it in a meaningful manner, and instead opts to pressure and push for the lynch of myself and Huntress. That's perfect scumbuddy material right there. If EA does get lynched, she can go back through and point out the few times she "expressed suspicion" of EA. However, she did not in any point throughout the thread actually contribute whatsoever to getting EA lynched. In fact, she acknowledged that I had a point about EA's actions not making sense based on his claimed role, but yet pressured me based on the flimsy case that she was suspicious of Huntress and thought I was connected to Huntress. Her actions speak quite a bit louder than her words in this case.

I think Springlullaby is cult here. I think her "I hope it's a vig" is a nice cover up for her being mafia and making a kill. If Xtoxm claims that the 2nd kill was made by the mafia then springlullaby can say "oh, well I thought it was a vig, silly me. But the member of the mafia would have known it wasn't a vig, so clearly I'm not mafia! Oh and also I asked the serial killer to claim, which makes it impossible for me to be the serial killer. That means I'm town!".

Despite trying to call me out on it, she's done nothing but hunt for the serial killer today, which is what a member of the cult wants to do. They want the focus to be on finding the other scum group (which makes her accusation that I'm the serial killer because I'm hunting the SK absurd).

I had already investigated EA, his role name and rank were accurate. Considering the fact that the note I received says that anyone who is culted keeps their powers, I wanted to double check.

I read 455, but as it is it's much better to be safer than sorry. I feel much more at ease about you not being the SK.This is better than a pseudo-meta clear.

[ClockworkRuse]

I keep me saber by my side at all times.

At Huntress; I can see where you are coming from but are you comfortable saying that there isn't a cult?

Second; I basically wanted to check Goat's claim. Since EA turned up scum yesterday and I already knew for a fact that EA's role claim was true, I wanted to see if he was telling the truth about Goat. Being on the opposing scum group, I think EA would love to get rid of the SK as soon as possible.

Xtoxm, are you willing to out guess the mod like that?
I'm referring to your statement about being able to turn down a recruitment.

[ClockworkRuse]

So actually the mafia spy doesn't know who is in the mafia. If CR is a traitor, he fits the first definition more accurately.

Either way, I think this is worth considering.

It's interesting theory, I'm thinking about how to defend myself against it.

First, how much of a hint would that be to the scum group if I was a traitor? "Hey! I'm suspicious of both of you!" wouldn't really be much of a hint as much as it would re reason for them to take me out.

Second, if it was a day start game and I didn't know ho the mafia was how would I be sending a message to the two scum?

Xtoxm is a sort of JOATs? And thank you for the protection, I suppose.

Why did you ask for the person to be killing with the poison to keep quiet? I assumed that the person with the poison is scum or SK.

Goat, my weapon is a Saber.

[ClockworkRuse]

Ah, I'm sorry. I misread what you said then.

[ClockworkRuse]

Second; I basically wanted to check Goat's claim. Since EA turned up scum yesterday and I already knew for a fact that EA's role claim was true, I wanted to see if he was telling the truth about Goat. Being on the opposing scum group, I think EA would love to get rid of the SK as soon as possible.

How did you know EA's role claim (tracker) was true?

I knew he was an officer, and I am assuming that officers have power roles. I knew the name he claimed was correct and it fit the title, I looked up what his role name's job was on a ship.

So maybe it should say I'm fairly sure he told the truth about his role.

[ClockworkRuse]

Who do you trust CR me or confirmed scum?

I'm not too sure where this came from. XD

Before you even claimed your results, I had to make a decision on who to investigate. The way I saw it, I would get more information by investigating goat.

I already told everyone that the PM I got attempting to recruit me said that officers who are recruited kept their night powers, so instead of thinking that EA had just tried to get rid of Goat because he felt like it I felt that he could have found the SK and was going after him. Thus, I investigated him.

I wasn't also blocked last night. So shouldn't that mean someone else was?

Xtoxm, does your role PM tell you about any consequences about your one-shot save?