Mini 2265: Bears with Guns 2: Pandamonium game over

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Cat Scrarch Fever

Hey Greeting, Roden, CSF, Dwlee, and Toogeloo.

[StrangeMatter]

Hi, VOTE: StrangeMatter, we haven’t played together in a while. Are you scum?

No, I'd be less than happy to be playing this game if I did.

[StrangeMatter]

Did roll scum*

[StrangeMatter]

Still don't see how that would implicate town!momo but I see your point on roden

Generally if someone thinks the same thought I had (before I post it) they’re usually town.
Doesn’t always work but it’s enough to start

Agree with this, especially since I'm fairly confident that people that I mind-meld with mostly similar thoughts are more often than not town.

[StrangeMatter]

I meant I agree with the explanation they have for mind melds, though I'm not sure I agree with the logic behind it?

[StrangeMatter]

I meant I agree with the explanation they have for mind melds, though I'm not sure I agree with the logic behind it?

I mean saying that is town!Momo I just don't feel really makes much sense to me at the moment?

[StrangeMatter]

Still don't see how that would implicate town!momo but I see your point on roden

Generally if someone thinks the same thought I had (before I post it) they’re usually town.

Doesn’t always work but it’s enough to start

Still don't see how that would implicate town!momo but I see your point on roden

Generally if someone thinks the same thought I had (before I post it) they’re usually town.
Doesn’t always work but it’s enough to start

Agree with this, especially since I'm fairly confident that people that I mind-meld with mostly similar thoughts are more often than not town.

So you think people who mind meld with you are often scum, which is opposite of what Math is saying.

Let me rephrase that, because you clearly misread what I said. I meant that I'm fairly confident that people I mind-meld with are more often town.

[StrangeMatter]

Sorry I haven't really been talking much I've been busy and aren't able to post much.

toog roden greeting megaz catscratch I'm leaning town

momo's 107 feels like TMI. why are you trying to sort within the wagon unless you know toog is town

I don't necessarily agree with that, especially since I've sorted people off certain wagons I find to be more likely to have scum in them, but I kind of see where you're coming with the thought.

[StrangeMatter]

There’s no one being sus though?

So inactive/doesn’t want to contribute is a pretty good elim.
There’s stuff I disagree with but nothing inherently scummy except Toog’s refusal to post a read.

I don’t see that from momo’s post. It just seems like they said they’d look at the Toog wagon start of day and I would do so whatever Toog’s alignment. (To be clear I think Toog is scum).

I disagree on no one being sus!

IMO the wagon on Toog is nothing more than a random collection of meaningless RVS votes and I think it was very weak for Momo to say that solving that should be the immediate objective.

Personally though, I'm waiting to see what they do with looking into that wagon at the moment.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Momo

First serious wagon of the game should be here
Only 3 posts so far (which is NAI) but 1 is an rvs vote, 1 gives lamist vibes, and the other feels like poor logic because it wasn't reasoned out and was just wanting to look solvey.

EBWOP

Not liking this vote from Meg.
Nagl when Jackson Virgo has less posts and just an RVS vote.
So why momo over JV?

I feel like 121 pretty clearly explained why Meg's voting for momo, and why are you going to bat for momo? Do you townread him?

I am going to bat for momo because of my initial townread of momo and the logic for the momo wagon I disagree with.

I think someone not posting reads is a better elim than someone who is.

If we're robots, I agree, but I actively disliked what Momo had to say, the take sounded like the kind of analysis scum feels like they need to provide to seem like they're hunting, but I didn't like the conclusion from it and I didn't get the impression that there was any actual town solving behind it rather than just saying things.
I would rather kill people who I think are posting actively suspicious analysis than people who are posting no analysis.
Why bother looking at analysis at all if we are just going to provide a blanket pass for anyone who is doing it?

Also this mind melds with me fairly well. Fine with putting them as a townlean for now (I’m at the point of paranoia of hard town reading the wrong person again, it happens too often).

[StrangeMatter]

Vander is who I am talking about, my grammar has deteriorated quite a bit. I just use they when I don’t really know someone’s pronouns (though do correct me if I am using the wrong ones.)

[StrangeMatter]

Strange, you haven't commented on either of the major wagons. Penny for your thoughts?

Momo's response to all this pressure by simply defending themselves and then saying the wagon is not a real wagon just seems incredibly scummy to me. Not to mention they still haven't really made any attempt to do any reading or prodding around the Toogaloo wagon that drops this further.

Toogeloo I'm really not sure how to think about it since I don't fully understand where Dwlee is coming from with their Toogeloo push (I read their ISO and its a lot of pushing on Toogeloo with very little explanation) whereas with Mathblade with the logic of active lurking which is a lot more understandable how they came to that conclusion looking at Togeloo's posts.

[StrangeMatter]

Fair enough, also I really didn't want to end the day (Often early hammers just end up wasting time that I don't feel like this makes sense to end it now) but I'm just going to put it as a spiritual vote there for now.

[StrangeMatter]

That is also partially why since I've had two games now where town hammers way early and it ends up being a PR.

[StrangeMatter]

And I don't want to have another game of this happening.

[StrangeMatter]

Yes it is.

I thought the wagon was fine until they were hammered early.

[StrangeMatter]

A bit off topic while I agree with some of it, it’s worded a really mean spirited way that I don’t like.

[StrangeMatter]

Can you expand on these thoughts?

[StrangeMatter]

I don't really agree that personal reasons are scum indicative ever or really is ever AI. Granted I still think this conversation reads to me as a TVT heavily biased tunneling each other.

[StrangeMatter]

This being theater is unlikely to be honest, so its either TVT (most likely here to me), or SVT, but definitely not SVS here.

[StrangeMatter]

For you, Greeting, it's more intuition and gut from reading your posts (That I really don't agree with the logic but still seems townie but with the wrong reasons) that make me think this way, but for Malakittens it should be fairly obvious why I think they might be biased here and are tunneling you.

[StrangeMatter]

For you, Greeting, it's more intuition and gut from reading your posts (That I really don't agree with the logic but still seems townie but with the wrong reasons) that make me think this way, but for Malakittens it should be fairly obvious why I think they might be biased here and are tunneling you.

I was questioning the wording you used - namely "tunnelling". Because I don't see myself tunnelled over

Malakittens

. Am I sure if they are scum? No, I'm not. I do feel like I've judged the arguments for and against and the conclusion to which I got just points to

Malakittens

more likely being scum than not as indicated by their behavior. Also, I didn't get the feeling that they are tunnelled over me, but

Malakittens

would need to weigh in on this themselves.

My issue with this take is - it is just so easy to write off my lengthy argument against

Malakittens

and their past "suspicions" of me as two tunnelled townies and not delve into it deeper. That's how it certainly looks from a lazy viewpoint and hence why I asked you those questions.

First of all, I already said there were parts of your argument that I don't agree with, and second, it's an observation that I see and added what I thought about it.
Which to me absolutely seemed like two townies who weren't going to look elsewhere for anything and continue to push each other for a good majority of the game.

[StrangeMatter]

Going to pull it up here hang on.

[StrangeMatter]

Ok you don’t know me greeting and I can promise you I don’t use mental health to toy with peoples feeling. I have lost s/o due to spiraling into depression. I have also lost friends and a job due to it as well.

So please let me know when you walk a week in my shoes and then tell me I shit on mental health when majorly of people in my field suffer mental health issues secondary to try to help others.

Either way im done with this conversation.

I'm sorry, you brought it up?

The moment you bring up your real life insecurities and issues they become part of the game. If you don't want people to use them against you then keep them to yourself. I'm not sorry for playing towards my winning goal, and in case you're wondering what it is, that's looking for liars and manipulators, which also includes emotional blackmailers.

Its more complicated than just keeping it to yourself. As keeping it to yourself can also lead to it being used against you

That's one interpretation of what happened. Another interpretation that I believe is that someone uses this as a pre-emptive argument to excuse themselves out of suspicion.

1. If someone speaks of their newfound confidence and then does stuff that contradicts this confidence, the most logical conclusion is that have been manufacturing content and lying. And, you know, when you claim that someone is 100% scum and then vote someone else to

supposedly

make a point that just doesn't prove one's confidence in my eyes.

It starts making sense from a scum point of view: miseliminating a townie and doing it paving the way for oneself to miseliminate another townie Day 2. The momo wagon was, in my opinion, a pressure wagon gone very wrong towards the end with the specific aim of targeting me for it later. Twilight of Day 1 was when my suspicion of Malakittens started to enhance when they got super erratic with their behavior and went on to hammer a townie (I know that it was MathBlade who did this, but Malakittens paved the way for him to do it).

Malakittens claims that they had their first suspicion on me far earlier than when the first vote was cast. While it isn't immediately clear when it was, the first post where they indicated some sort of displeasure with my content was 215. They present my case as an OMGUS vote which it isn't. While their case on me is obviously wrong, I did not suspect them for having doubts about my alignment, which were crumbed (but not glaringly obvious to me) up until 287. The case did have

some

merit in the fact that I did not post a lot of content for most of Day 1. I have certainly hinted why and that was because I thought the majority of Day 1 was uneventful and boring. People went after MathBlade most of the time, whom I was townreading at the time. Nothing else was happening, many players weren't posting at all. That's it.

What matters in this game is behavior and not one's character. I have made points relating to behavior and received a counterattack in which I have been blamed for attacking one's character with Malakittens providing very personal reasoning. That's inexcusable and, objectively speaking, scum indicative. In the context of a mafia game, I am actually reading this as a poor attempt to stop me from reading the slot. It's not even "oh my god, you suck for this post", but "how DARE you attack my mental health" (referencing both 349 and 359). Town wants to solve the game. Scum wants to manipulate town against solving the game. Emotionally blackmailing another player into not investigating a potential scum slip, giving a real-life based reasoning, is a very anti-town thing to do.

Playstyles vary, but scum interests are always the same. And Malakittens' behavior does not indicate a game-solving mindset.

And that is why, in my opinion, the kitty needs to go. Not because they had some issues. But because what they claim doesn't align with their behavior and when pressed about it they get aggressive and manipulative.

I don't agree that contradictions are inherently scum indicative from experience when in several games I've seen more often town flipping on their views (One of which was a game where I spectated a newbie game where you and Cape90 in that game seemingly to me did a 180 onto Dunnstral) to know entirely from experience it's more common that scum chooses to have smooth arguments and have some excuse to switch to something. Although I don't understand quite understand, and I want you to walk me through the thought process here, how does this correlate with being a contradiction of their confidence?

Not going to say much on the other main part here since it is manipulative if they aren't lying about that, which is true but nobody here can really say if it's true or not (and probably shouldn't be pursued further since I think their reaction can absolutely be genuine).

[StrangeMatter]

What I see as scum interests are often that from a checklist (though they won't always do everything on this list) they:

1. Fool town into believing they are town, or just don't get eliminated.
2. Make plays towards their win condition through any means necessary (such as setting town up to vote the wrong person).
3. Pretend to scumhunt (though entirely dependent on player skill to know who can pretend to do that or not).

And there are many more that I could list but I really don't want to because I think I'd be here all day listing every tiny play ever.

[StrangeMatter]

Hate to say it, but I’m glad if that role is real
That I didn’t get it. SM would automatically think it was a fake claim since the last time I rolled scum and played against SM it’s similar to what I claimed lmao (just not the vig part)

I'm trying to recall, what game are you talking about? I've had multiple games where people have roles that just don't make sense together, and some of which actually did exist together and it was townsided. Personally, with this claim, I don't feel like it makes sense to be fake though I'm far less certain I'm fine with leaving them alive for today even if it is just a fake.

[StrangeMatter]

I dropped the use of usernames for the purpose of this post only to make it simpler.

The way x posted made me believe that they're very certain that y is scum. If x says that y is almost certainly scum, then why would they switch to a second wagon, which was a pressure wagon and not focus on drumming up players to eliminate y instead? If x sees y as scum and x is town then it is most reasonable for to x believe that by voting to eliminate y they are acting in the interest of town. And not instead just jump on someone else.

Miseliminating any townie is objectively anti-town play. However, it happens in every game and I don't know a single player who has never voted out a townie while being town themselves. It happens not because every single townie who miseliminates scum wants their team to fail, but because they

think

that person was scum. So in their minds they see it as pro-town play. As for x, my opinion is that it's anti-town play in both objective and most importantly, subjective way. If someone acts in a way that doesn't align with their stated beliefs and their actions result in the worsening of town's chances to win the game then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the viewpoint could really be coming from scum.

Of course, there is a town explanation for this and it's that it's just they had bad reads and a bad impulse which led to a bad fuckup. But I see this as possibly coming from a scum point of view and hence why my vote is where it is.

Alright, that makes sense. However what sticks out to me and something I noted throughout all this is...I noted from looking through ISO as well is that you really didn't poke or prod into that much, just kind of accused. Which is odd in a scummy way (but I still think both of you are town) that just jumped onto something you find scummy for it.

[StrangeMatter]

I dropped the use of usernames for the purpose of this post only to make it simpler.

The way x posted made me believe that they're very certain that y is scum. If x says that y is almost certainly scum, then why would they switch to a second wagon, which was a pressure wagon and not focus on drumming up players to eliminate y instead? If x sees y as scum and x is town then it is most reasonable for to x believe that by voting to eliminate y they are acting in the interest of town. And not instead just jump on someone else.

Miseliminating any townie is objectively anti-town play. However, it happens in every game and I don't know a single player who has never voted out a townie while being town themselves. It happens not because every single townie who miseliminates scum wants their team to fail, but because they

think

that person was scum. So in their minds they see it as pro-town play. As for x, my opinion is that it's anti-town play in both objective and most importantly, subjective way. If someone acts in a way that doesn't align with their stated beliefs and their actions result in the worsening of town's chances to win the game then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the viewpoint could really be coming from scum.

Of course, there is a town explanation for this and it's that it's just they had bad reads and a bad impulse which led to a bad fuckup. But I see this as possibly coming from a scum point of view and hence why my vote is where it is.

Alright, that makes sense. However what sticks out to me and something I noted throughout all this is...I noted from looking through ISO as well is that you really didn't poke or prod into that much, just kind of accused. Which is odd in a scummy way (but I still think both of you are town) that just jumped onto something you find scummy for it.

And what I mean is odd about it is that you didn't really prod around Malakittens with your read, which to me indicates at the minimum a fairly strong reason to point if you are right or not about solving a person's alignment.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Need you, CSF, and wavemode to start talking and being a part of the discussion since I know people were waiting on what Mathblade did and haven't really said much. Do you have any thoughts? Anything you think worth noting that you might want to bring up?

[StrangeMatter]

And I get that people have their own times and all that but I legit don't have a strong read going in any direction with these slots in particular since I don't feel like they have really have given enough to read accurately.

[StrangeMatter]

Even when parsing these ISOs they don't really read to me as having a strong Alignment Indicative content. Have to reread those again though.

[StrangeMatter]

Sm I was part of the rogue hydra in cabd/ffery game

Oh right. But in that game, there was more than one thing that pointed out that would've made it likely fake (including the fact that I was also poisoned and you said you were poisoned while "protecting" me and I was poisoned) which was a fairly obvious gambit.

This case with MathBlade is a very different scenario from what happened in that game.

[StrangeMatter]

Speaking of slots that I've played with though. Dwlee in this game is just completely different from how they've played with me in the past and I really don't know how to think about this slot, knowing he has a generally strong scumgame (and have also seen a small part of his town game) but here he just doesn't seem to be doing anything of what I'd expect. So I'm gonna leave this as null for now but like the other slots, I want more out of this.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Need you, CSF, and wavemode to start talking and being a part of the discussion since I know people were waiting on what Mathblade did and haven't really said much. Do you have any thoughts? Anything you think worth noting that you might want to bring up?

time for mafia has been space but I do think there's 2 scum at least on momo wagon.
Probably Greeting + ???? but Still need to check if I'm recalling it correctly

Okay...so why do you think it's probably Greeting?

[StrangeMatter]

Okay, and what are your townreads?

[StrangeMatter]

Can you expand on these thoughts?

What makes Dwlee99 scum? Tbh I'd like you to expand on all of those reads.

I'll focus on the scum leans

strangematter I feel like has mostly not taken hard stances this game. just lots of "i agree with that" and "I disagree with that". it feels like fake participation

dwlee hopped on toog for some reason like "he is not even making an attempt at being game advancing" which, idk feels like a very shallow read. that is, both the notion that toog has done nothing to advance the game, and the notion that, if he hasn't, that means he is scum. both notions feel shallow. yet he's remained tunneled on toog and noone else since the beginning. idk if this is really the kind of play I expect from town!lee

math apparently is some kind of delayed vig? but yeah d1 I was leaning scum on him because his reasoning makes no sense to me this game yet he sort of was trying to, like, bully people into just accepting it? did not feel town motivated

Also, I'd like for you to expand on fake participation scumlean.

[StrangeMatter]

You really wanted that pagetop, huh.

[StrangeMatter]

Also, I'd like for you to expand on fake participation scumlean.

expand on it how? seems self explanatory to me. your posts seem like they could be coming from scum who wants to fencesit and not take any hard stances. so instead you fill your ISO with agreements and mechanical discussions and meta discussions but no actual scumhunting. aka fake participation

basically, what mala was accusing greeting of doing, it feels like you're the one actually doing it

I have been scumhunting, mostly through asking questions to slots that I feel need to try to figure out the most. I'm bad at actually putting them down onto paper but saying I haven't been trying at the minimum is not true in the slightest.

[StrangeMatter]

I won't deny that I would absolutely sit on the sidelines as scum and just let games play out while going under people's radar (see Newbie 2082), but I legit don't see how you can just say to me that I'm fairly obviously not scumhunting at all and just making fake participation.

[StrangeMatter]

I was thinking of Vanderscamp and wavemode.
Both reek of scum utilizing the momentum, but wavemodes seems less likely to come from town VOTE: Wavemode

Idk this is a bit of a trend with this game from what I'm seeing at the moment and I hate repeating myself too much, but I need you to explain this a lot further. What makes your point that it is scum utilizing momentum?

[StrangeMatter]

im late again

I'm sure you'll get it eventually.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

Going to put my two cents but I just get the feeling you made up those reads on the spot I don't really have any evidence to describe why just from my gut just that's what I felt from reading that list.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

Going to put my two cents but I just get the feeling you made up those reads on the spot I don't really have any evidence to describe why just from my gut just that's what I felt from reading that list.

Scratch that, I'm thinking of the wrong person, but it was someone's reads that just kind of felt like that in my experience that you just kind of make quickly on the dime.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm horrible at remembering important details (don't ask me why I'm not sure how either) but it was probably was Cat Scratch Fever.

[StrangeMatter]

Probably. Though I keep getting the feeling I'm not actually talking about the right person here (though some parts of that just feel hastily made up to me too).

[StrangeMatter]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is a really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

[StrangeMatter]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

EBWOP.

[StrangeMatter]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is a really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

Which reasons didn't feel fleshed out?

I already highlighted which reasons weren't fleshed out, which were the scumleans that you put down making sense to me as someone who made things up on the spot.

[StrangeMatter]

you stated CSF had no scumreads. but her list was a ranking, hence the names at the bottom were the scumreads

then you got into a pointless argument about the semantics of "scumlean" vs "scumread"

help me out, what am I missing. like, if your argument is that she is not strongly confident in her scumreads, then you should probably also be scumreading half the players in this game. so why are you not

I'm not sure what else to really explain it at this point other than what I've said. I'm still reading them them as scummy from what I've already said.

Though your reaction and defense makes me like one of [CSF, Wavemode] flipping here.

[StrangeMatter]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is a really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

Which reasons didn't feel fleshed out?

I already highlighted which reasons weren't fleshed out, which were the scumleans that you put down making sense to me as someone who made things up on the spot.

I was asking more which reasons do you think weren't real or fleshed out, because this is very vague? And by not fleshed out, do you mean to say that they were underexplained or did you feel that the reasons were flimsy and/or not scum indicative?

Dwlee - scumreads toog and that's kind of it --->

nullscum

Greeting - they seem to be pushing people for doing weird/bizarre things that are anti-town while ignoring the town things about them --->

nullscum

@CSF. These feel flimsy logic, especially your scumlean on Dwlee, which really wasn't explained or really to me feels very scum indicative, especially looking through Dwlee's ISO. I don't disagree with the logic behind your Greetings read (and I'm thinking is potentially less likely to be made up), though it is definitely underexplained and not looked into after that makes me a think it might have just been made up.

[StrangeMatter]

Happy birthday by the way. I'm going to be back soon, I'm currently busy.

[StrangeMatter]

is anyone here townreading dwlee? and if so why

I'm not but, why are you asking this?

[StrangeMatter]

Part of that reason for me not voting you outright (even though I absolutely want to) is I just don’t trust others to not lolhammer and actually read VC. But speaking of which, deadline is nearing and I want this flipped.

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

[StrangeMatter]

Toogeloo/CSF/Wavemode

Mostly associations but I want these slots flipped to help solve.

[StrangeMatter]

Toogeloo/CSF/Wavemode/JV

Mostly associations but I want these one of these slots flipped to help solve.

EBWOP,

[StrangeMatter]

Considering CSF's jump onto me without even saying what reason I had or not really trying to solve alignment just accuse seems scummy, though I'm seriously starting to wonder it doesn't seem like many people are trying to either.

[StrangeMatter]

We really need to eliminate someone soon. I don't feel like risking it on claimed PR even if the alignment has yet to be determined, so I'd prefer not to be eliminating that slot (though it's entirely possible Mafmen is faking parts of their role, I've seen way too many suspicions of a PR go extremely poorly to let that slide).

[StrangeMatter]

Alright I have a question while you're here, have you read into other slots other than Toogeloo and Mathblade? And if so, what's your opinion on them?

Also I really don't have much of a case on others at the moment, but I'm fairly confident is more likely to flip scum here.

[StrangeMatter]

I can, but not without some level of input that I can work with.

[StrangeMatter]

which as much as I hate to admit this and people can make a case for it being my scum game, I don't think I have enough to work with at the moment to solve.

[StrangeMatter]

everything JV said about CSF applies 10 times more validly to strangematter this game. I would say very blatantly and obviously so

60 posts yet no real hard stances. it's all just been questions and filler

almost her entire scum pool is just based on "associations"

this flips scum, plain and simple

And what do you think I've been trying to do with said questions? Not solve maybe try to solve using questions, using what I have seen, and getting responses out of that?

Stop making things up about me about having no hard stances because you're just straight up lying about that.

[StrangeMatter]

You can literally look through my ISO too to prove that you're wrong about your hard stances argument.

[StrangeMatter]

This being theater is unlikely to be honest, so its either TVT (most likely here to me), or SVT, but definitely not SVS here.

We really need to eliminate someone soon. I don't feel like risking it on claimed PR even if the alignment has yet to be determined, so I'd prefer not to be eliminating that slot (though it's entirely possible Mafmen is faking parts of their role, I've seen way too many suspicions of a PR go extremely poorly to let that slide).

Plus I didn't talk about it but I was fairly certain Mafman was town, and I was fairly certain there that it was in fact TVT. I haven't been doing nothing with those responses (I haven't said my thoughts much), I've looked at people's reads trying to look at it from under different perspectives, and I didn't end up with as much as I believed.

[StrangeMatter]

18 hours, people

I would also go dwlee

I'm not voting megaz or CSF

Are these entirely on the fact you think I'm going to flip scum, since those are the two slots I have voted?

Calling my vote OMGUS is also extremely disingenuous since there were things about their vote on me that stood out as a little scummy which I had already pointed out.

[StrangeMatter]

Are these entirely on the fact you think I'm going to flip scum, since those are the two slots I have voted?

no. if you've been analyzing the game as closely as you claim, you'd recall that these two have been townleans of mine for a while now

Well then I just didn't see it.

[StrangeMatter]

But anyways,

This being theater is unlikely to be honest, so its either TVT (most likely here to me), or SVT, but definitely not SVS here.

that's not a stance lmfao. stating that an interaction between two players is either TVT or SVT is saying almost nothing at all

That is a stance on two people pushing each other. Like you could say saying something is SVT or TVT but it would still be someone's view on that, and it would be considered a stance on something.

[StrangeMatter]

I literally explained both parts already, I don’t get how you just don’t understand and keep asking me this question.

Will be back very very soon before EoD and when I can get onto my computer.

[StrangeMatter]

Legit I don’t even, I’m so done with this game.

[StrangeMatter]

This is the exact same question they asked me before and I’m more annoyed they just didn’t understand what I meant.

[StrangeMatter]

@CSF

My problem with your reads were partially that they seemed flimsy (specifically the Dwlee one felt a very weak, less so on the Greeting but it didn't seem like you thought they could be misguided town is what I thought), but looking them over they were reads that seemed hastily and made up. Like at the time it doesn't make sense for Dwlee to really on someone's scumleaning for having only one scumread at that point. Especially when I noted they did in fact have reads.

As for your jump onto me is my problem is when people just accuse is not really accusing someone because they're trying to solve, rather accusing to move everyone off, have easy content, and be able to scumread someone without a hitch. It comes off as scummy to me to not even try to prod around to understand why. At that specific time, I hadn't want to vote you outright mostly due to ending days early which have been a recurring issue with my experiences in Mini games.

[StrangeMatter]

I've used this as a exact way to cop out of certain votes as scum before though.

Essentially what it boils down to is that though it seems to be a common trend on site is to me looking like a lack of effort digging into the read to confirm or point if you're wrong isn't really solving the game.

[StrangeMatter]

and I mean Newbie 2084 where I stalled for a majority and my most recent Newbie game.

[StrangeMatter]

I've used this as a exact way to cop out of certain votes playing as scum though.

Essentially what it boils down to is that though it seems to be a common trend on site is to me looking like a lack of effort digging into the read to confirm or point if you're wrong isn't really solving the game.

EBWOP.

For reference
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88925&p=13293506#p13293506
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88251

[StrangeMatter]

Yes, just wanted to point out that is really just not alignment indicative looking over my meta.

[StrangeMatter]

@CSF

My problem with your reads were partially that they seemed flimsy (specifically the Dwlee one felt a very weak, less so on the Greeting but it didn't seem like you thought they could be misguided town is what I thought), but looking them over they were reads that seemed hastily and made up. Like at the time it doesn't make sense for Dwlee

to really on someone's scumleaning for having only one scumread at that point

. Especially when I noted they did in fact have reads.

What does this mean?

As for your jump onto me is my problem is when people just accuse is not really accusing someone because they're trying to solve, rather accusing to move everyone off, have easy content, and be able to scumread someone without a hitch. It comes off as scummy to me to not even try to prod around to understand why. At that specific time, I hadn't want to vote you outright mostly due to ending days early which have been a recurring issue with my experiences in Mini games.

At what point do you think you would've voted for me? You did wait until the day was almost over. If everyone did that, then we'd only have wagons at day end, which doesn't feel like a good reason.

What do you, mean what do I mean? I literally explained my thought process and answered your questions asked and the one you kept asking me.

I would've voted you once I didn't put you in E-1 and hammer range (letting people lolhammer is part of why I don't trust people in Minis anymore, not because paranoia I'm very tired of this happening) with people suspecting your slot. I hadn't been checking vote counts so I missed that initially and didn't notice it until a new vote count was up at #701.

[StrangeMatter]

I have a question for wavemode.

What were you doing night one? Wanted to talk about it now with looking at the MegAzu wagon as well.

[StrangeMatter]

What were you doing on Mathblade night 1?

[StrangeMatter]

Also completely pointless since the mod essentially ousted this but Mathblade targeted Dwlee last night, which was their quarantine action (obviously).

Not going to say exactly what my role is, but wavemode targeted Mathblade Night 1.

[StrangeMatter]

Well either its a PR or it could be a scum role with an action, which I could absolutely see either (which if you're town is 4 town PRs).

Its essentially ELO with 3 people dying tonight if JV is town, and is dying tonight with Mathblade's role outted.

[StrangeMatter]

No, that's just how many PRs if you are actually a PR here.

Actually, now that you've pointed it, why are they still alive?

[StrangeMatter]

No, that's just how many PRs I've counted if you are actually a PR here.

Actually, now that you've pointed it, why is JV still alive?

EBWOP.

[StrangeMatter]

The problem with that logic is firstly I don't know if you were a PR or not, and its very likely scum has a role with an active ability, likely roleblocker or another role entirely.

I considered it day 2 thinking you could be PR and outing would've been bad then, but now I'm fairly questioning whether or not you actually are.

[StrangeMatter]

Oh ffs.

[StrangeMatter]

Can we please, stop rushing votes.

[StrangeMatter]

[StrangeMatter]

Can we please, stop rushing votes.

It would have ended the same, it needed to happen or we risk losing today. But this fast was probably not ideal

Well now it doesn't even matter.

[StrangeMatter]

I don’t get it. Why did we throw out MegAzu over CSF here.

[StrangeMatter]

I don’t think anyone had fun this game either.

My WIM just tanked after Day 2.

[StrangeMatter]

I don’t think anyone had fun this game either.

My WIM just tanked after Day 2.

[StrangeMatter]

Well MathBlade there were times where I assumed you were obviously town but I didn't expect you to be nightkilled there.

[StrangeMatter]

I hate being right but never having the right reasons half the time.

[StrangeMatter]

I mean, how can your intuition on something right but you just can never seem to do anything else right.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't think that makes up for 4 scum being able to control town for a majority of the game.

Also I didn't use my role right either though not knowing if there's a roleblocker (in general it is more common for scum to have roleblockers) or just have another PR.

[StrangeMatter]

really didn't help.*

[StrangeMatter]

I don't really like games designed to be extremely swingy since mistakes are more or less going to happen, or something will likely end up making one side win insanely hard and there's almost no chance to come back.

[StrangeMatter]

GIM is definitely different in that its intentionally designed as a game that was intended to not be taken super seriously.

For sure people don't like swing games where its not known that it could be an extremely swingy game. Still this game was going to swing either way if certain conditions were met, though we definitely played very poorly so town just got stomped.

Still infuriating how the CSF wagon got counterwagoned out of nowhere and then MegAzu just self hammers.

[StrangeMatter]

We definitely deserved to lose but I don’t feel like it’s much of a victory if I was scum there. No offense since Mafia played really well but with how town played it doesn’t feel like one I’d actually earned.

[StrangeMatter]

Semantics here, and no offense again to scum, but when I think earned I mean winning against good players, and or against the odds with a lot of work put into that as scum.

[StrangeMatter]

Never mind I’m stupid, I read wrong. Ignore these two posts.