Open 849 - Panic Room! -- Game over!

[fireisredsir]

hello!!

[fireisredsir]

oooo spooky zombie jungle temple, love the flavor, im spooked

ill catch up in a few hours when im home

[fireisredsir]

- 38 from monkey is a weird take
- just weird vibes throughout in the monkey v prism. mostly from monkey. 75 is a Good Post from prism imo
- yeet is scum for 82
- around 97ish i just don't really feel like monkey believes in this push on prism? is it a reaction test? is it posturing? what's going on here
- agree with 120 from andante. probtown. maybe
- kinda like umlaut 150
- 157 kinds feels forced? weird reaction
- 189 i like prism here, im gonna assume she's town for now and probably get burned by that later
- 218 ah there it is. monkey says fake cases to see how people respond. hmmmm. idk, that is like the easiest thing in the world for maf to do. especially if he has a history of doing it. anyway that explains the vibes but im not townreading here yet
- 242 feels like town enchant. this is the first time ive ever felt like i can read enchant. exciting!
- 284 kinda weird to me. i feel like neither have posted enough to have much of a strong townread on them, at least not enough to be unwilling to vote there. skitter scum perhaps?
- 292 huh? what changed on roden? or did i misread and you were saying you didn't like the play? i thought you meant didn't like the wagon
- 293, 294, 297, uhhh, yeet? what the
- 311 yeet is so fake here. trying to look like confident town smh
- 332 still fake
- 348 fake fake fake and clearly saying that he has thought about how his current style of posting is intending to be townread

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Yeet

[fireisredsir]

hey what's up im here now

[fireisredsir]

i didn't read the thread until after i replaced in, so i did not have an uninformed read of it

but imo whoever said that bella was voting RVS-style kind of to say hi to you, and that it prob was not a serious meta read vote, is more likely to be right. that's how i read it. who knows, tho

[fireisredsir]

ok

what makes it more maffy than towny tho

[fireisredsir]

i didn't read the thread until after i replaced in, so i did not have an uninformed read of it

but imo whoever said that bella was voting RVS-style kind of to say hi to you, and that it prob was not a serious meta read vote, is more likely to be right. that's how i read it. who knows, tho

That was me, although i didnt actually say that's what she was doing, rather i was trying to figure out if it was that or if she was scumreading andante off of me except she repped out ...

When did you read it that way?

when i read the post. idk, i think the idea that it was a serious meta read is a bit of a leap

[fireisredsir]

I feel like Yeet is deliberately trying to play to a certain style and that'¢ why their posts seem so fake. I'd guess alt trying to play more flippantly or something like that. Not saying it makes them town but it makes them not someone you can scumread on tone

Basically yeah, the scumreads on him feel more based on playstyle than anything. It is, granted, incredibly annoying, but that doesn't mean it's coming from scum. If I had to guess it's more toward the town side right now but that's a very forced read.

this isn't yeet's first game, and i don't think this is accurate

[fireisredsir]

yeet why do you think im town

[fireisredsir]

I never implied it was his first game?

and what i meant is that i don't think this is like an inherent, typical playstyle for him. it feels way too forced, and designed to generate townreads for being kinda chaotic and all over the place

[fireisredsir]

You are thinking about this too hard fire. It's not that complicated, you overthink a lot imo

I do too to be fair, I don't mean that in a mean way sorry if it came off like that. You are obviously a much better and more thinking player than I am.

see it's stuff like this
a) i do overthink a lot, but i think it would be more overthinking for me to disregard my gut scumread due to it being too obvious or whatever
b) i don't think im a better player than you and i think the way you're not giving yourself credit here, assuming it wasn't sarcastic, feels forced and fake

[fireisredsir]

yeet why do you think im town

I think your push on me feels organic. There's a lot of things going on in the word organic that I'm not really sure how to explain right now.

Fire, what do you think about this answer?

i don't think it's a very good answer. doesn't even make sense bc he townread me before I pushed him. and i don't know what about my push would look so organic that he would call me town that strongly for it

[fireisredsir]

it is also p much how i would expect scum to respond in this situation

which partly makes me feel weird about it bc it feels too obvious. like it's LHF or something. and that's why it's extra weird that he told me not to overthink bc when he said that i was in the process of overthinking my way out of the scumread. and now i don't know what to think

[fireisredsir]

so im being scumread for:
1) my previous slot rvs vote
2) my previous slot replacing out
3) me voting someone who is scummy and getting townread by them and therefore i must be partners with them and i must be the bomb

am i missing anything

please tell me im missing something

[fireisredsir]

just feels kinda circular logic here but ok

maybe it's just easy for me to see flaws bc i know it's wrong

[fireisredsir]

idk if you're talking to me or ydrasse. so correct me if im wrong here, but this sounds like another one of those "yeet is being suspected, if he's scum, x player is probably the bomb" theories

forgive me if im not especially enthused by those considering i at least know they're 0/1 so far

and i thought umlaut looked more towny than scummy anyway

[fireisredsir]

i liked 150

i could kind of see the yeet progression as something that could be scum motivated, and 152 isn't great, but moreso if yeet is town. in that case i think it would look more like it could be scum trying to keep their hands clean of what is potentially a lhf wagon going through. i don't really see the yeet partnership connection

and that's only if I'm looking for scum reasons. besides 152 i don't really scumread any of it, i think it could all easily be honest town thoughts

[fireisredsir]

150 bc i agreed with most of them. i too felt weird vibes from you/prism interactions and then later was less interested in pursuing those further once i learned that you often intentionally push kinda fake cases to see how people respond under pressure. and i thought the other points he made were decently townie ones, didn't feel like he had an agenda. so the way i see it is that either he's town, or that was a "im trying to look towny" post. and if i think the points made are mostly good and I can follow the thought process for one of those posts, then the poster is less likely to be maf imo

152 i agree looks more scummy than towny. i could still see a world where it comes from town but i don't think it looks great on the surface. but I guess, now that im thinking about it, if he was in "look towny" mode as maf for 150/151, then i don't think 152 comes out the way it does. i think he would have continued the "look towny" effort

[fireisredsir]

Fire is maf, and I will not be voting elsewhere

do you wanna talk about it

[fireisredsir]

in my only completed game with umlaut, he was maf and his first real post was a big catchup post where i disagreed with like every thought he had

therefore if i agree with his thoughts, he is town

this logic is sound and irrefutable, no further questions

[fireisredsir]

i was town lol

but actually i think it's related to that, my reads were wrong at the time and i think him having an informed position altered the way he viewed certain things. it made him think that people who he knew were town looked townier than they did, and that cases on scum were better than they were

so if i agree with maf umlaut then im on the right track. maybe

[fireisredsir]

hi ari! : )

[fireisredsir]

i think this game state is really kinda interesting tbh. im just gonna thought dump a bit apologies if this is somewhat directionless

the original bomb tinfoil theory from roden and ydrasse feels more on the towny side, but i think the people taking it and running with it (monkey, ari? idr if anyone else was) could be taking advantage of that. it's kind of an easy place for scum to sit, bomb hunting, because you can vote in places where you don't have to give any actual reason for a scumread, just string together some preflip associations

and hey while we're all doing preflip associations, i want to do some too, that sounds fun

~

if im right that yeet came in expecting to get townread for his play but miscalculated and came off looking p bad instead, imo his scum partners could be feeling some pressure to do something.

one action that felt strange to me was catboi's progression from 298 to 373 to 394. i got a feeling of him being under pressure to jump in and pick a side, which felt weird, because up to that point he seemed content to sit back and watch. im not sure what compelled him to vote there beyond putting pressure on yeet to answer his question, but something about it didn't feel right.

monkey stating a dream team of me/umlaut/yeet, and then voting me in 440 but immediately switching to umlaut in 441, was another action that felt pressured in some way. im not sure why he landed on umlaut of all people when the other two in his solve were already wagons. maybe afraid to pick a side?

idk for sure if either of these really fit perfectly, but they stood out to me

~

if yeet is town, i think there's less pressure and so it's less likely that scum is making any mistakes. scum may want to prop up our two wagons to make sure the lim is between town, but i think likely would mostly be sitting back and letting things happen.

enchant kinda fits the sitting back and letting things happen, but i also kinda townread them based off not much

skitter seems very reasonable to me and idk if i trust that

umlaut's comments on yeet felt a little awkward but i think he's more likely to be town

could be ari in this scenario? im less confident in reading this situation from a yeet town perspective, maybe bc i don't really see that as likely

~

i haven't mentioned roden, ydrasse, and andante as possibilities much here, i think im kinda considering these town for now? ill prob meta read the first two at some point cause idk how they usually play. im also kinda curious why andante hasn't tried to talk to me in order to sort, but maybe she's just busy?

[fireisredsir]

hmm yeet's two recent votes were catboi and monkey

[fireisredsir]

Fire Iso

his style here is a lot more proactive and decisive - here he feels more noncommital/careful/worried

it's easy to be confident when i'm a cop and everyone townreads me

[fireisredsir]

skitter what's your current read on monkey

[fireisredsir]

i'm not really vibing the ydra wagon, and i'm not much liking roden either

i forgot about this, skitter can you explain what you meant here? "not much liking roden" = you not liking the wagon, or you thinking roden is scummy?

[fireisredsir]

Besides that, I think I can comfortably townlock Catboi now. And I'm getting the feeling that HEM is likely scum here. But I'm curious if he knows why I've scum read him now.

why town on catboi?

[fireisredsir]

in my only completed game with umlaut, he was maf and his first real post was a big catchup post where i disagreed with like every thought he had

therefore if i agree with his thoughts, he is town

this logic is sound and irrefutable, no further questions

do you really believe this?

yes that last sentence was said without any irony whatsoever

[fireisredsir]

the progression doesn't make sense

he shades me slot, but stays on his RVS vote for a non-reason and later sheeps a gutread and now he's still now doing anything.

why people think this is town is bonkers

shading your slot but not voting there: i did that too! bad reason

stayed on rvs vote: idk, a little scummy maybe, but if he was maf then he was trying to look towny there and that does the opposite

sheeps a gutread: eh

not doing anything: same goes for multiple others

[fireisredsir]

question why you really think umlaut is town then

i don't think he's guaranteed town, he's done some towny things and some scummy things and overall i think they even out to being a little bit on the towny side

it looks like you are coming up with reasons to justify having a read rather than having reasons inform that read in the first place. the fact that i cannot tell the difference between when you fake a case on someone for pressure and when you are actually casing someone in order to solve is p sketch. like they feel exactly the same

[fireisredsir]

1. yes, and that's why i think you/yeet/skitter are providing cover for bomb!umlaut
2. early games are hard as scum. umlaut is very conscious of VCAs and he probably doesn't want to ping people as the bomb. also it's basically picking a fight with a loud town
3. EXPLAIN WHY THIS ISNT SCUMMY

1. lazy
2. umlaut is good enough at looking towny when he wants to
3. could be. i don't see the scum motivation though

[fireisredsir]

umlaut basically prefers to jump on an empty calorie wagon than their scumread because the wagon is more viable

are you saying the ydrasse wagon was more viable than a wagon on you? because i def disagree with that characterization

[fireisredsir]

why?

whose wagon went up to 3 votes?

there's more serious suspicion on you even though the votes haven't piled up. idk why scum umlaut wouldn't want to get in on ground zero of that fertile soil for a wagon

i think thats too many metaphors in one sentence

[fireisredsir]

you guys are townreading umlaut on the belief that he's doing towny things, and when asked to explain which towny things it is, a lot of it is just weak excuses

you are scumreading umlaut on the belief that he's doing scummy things, and when asked to explain which scummy things it is, a lot of it is just weak excuses

[fireisredsir]

I'm not saying it makes you scum, either (I don't think you are).

why not

i kinda think it might

[fireisredsir]

idk why scum umlaut wouldn't want to get in on ground zero of that fertile soil for a wagon

soil isn't very fertile

im not very mislimmable

who is, in this player list?

[fireisredsir]

i guess i don't know you and ydrasse as players well enough to come to that same conclusion

[fireisredsir]

playing for bomb solving really is just so convenient, you don't have to scumread the people you're voting, and you don't have to vote the people you scumread

[fireisredsir]

yes i was not talking about you

[fireisredsir]

actually tbh i don't even really think monkey scumreads me, it was just convenient for him while arguing to act like he did

[fireisredsir]

playing for bomb solving really is just so convenient, you don't have to scumread the people you're voting, and you don't have to vote the people you scumread

oh? who's doing this?

roden is voting me and i don't think they really scumread me right now. ydrasse was voting me earlier mostly from associations. you voted me in 440 without really scumreading me, although you switched quickly

at the time i posted that i thought you were now scumreading me without voting me, altho now im not so sure. i do think you're scumreading yeet without voting him due to your umlaut bomb theory. imo that's cause you're prob just scum with yeet

[fireisredsir]

And for the record, I'm not looking elsewhere till we lim fire. I SR that slot way too much to let it slide

why don't you want to talk to me about it

i thought you liked sorting people by talking to them

[fireisredsir]

roden is voting me and i don't think they really scumread me right now. ydrasse was voting me earlier mostly from associations.

and btw i do townread both of these people rn, but i think if yeet is town then it's possible one of them is scum

[fireisredsir]

Okay like everyone scumreads HEM and I am once again the only person voting him, very cool

I'm not in everyone? don't say I'm saying stuff I'm not... I want fire dead. never once have I said I SR monkey

like, monkey is just obsessed with getting me to answer dumb questions, not doing anything else. So I SR monkey and Bella, but then like Yeet isn't doing ANYTHING, so who freaking knows.. and almost no chance that's a 2/3

[fireisredsir]

Like, are we missing the fact a wagon was quickly forming on me? and maf went "oh! let me hop on!! and if it goes through now, I just go lol later"

the first two votes on you were the first two votes of the game. clearly RVS. i don't really think that's a real wagon? why so afraid of that

plus monkey was the one who jumped on after bella to make it e-2

[fireisredsir]

that doesn't make bella not maf

it does make your reasoning invalid

[fireisredsir]

if only for the absolutely wack argument of

“yeah i’ll kill fire today”
“fire is fine actually”
“why do you want to kill fire then”
“lol because”

like it feels like

i was kind of being hyped up sort of deal about wanting the bomb dead today like omg yes me too let’s gogogogogogogo it was

whiplash

who do you feel was hyping you up

and who are those quotes meant to be from in the first post

[fireisredsir]

i’m like

the reason i asked yeet for the opinion and maybe i should wait to answer is

there’s everyone sitting here twiddling thumbs about hem’s weird vibes but then no one actually does anything about it so it’s like

???

i mean idk about anyone else but i think both yeet and monkey are scum. i could switch but i think the possibility of yeet scum monkey town is more likely than yeet town monkey scum

[fireisredsir]

Is the only reason that you find my thoughts difficult to understand or something?

you both sure like minimizing cases

no, not at all. i think your entrance was fake, and that you expected to get townread for it because that kind of chaotic, confident energy does get townread when it's genuine. the problem is that it doesn't feel genuine at all. and i don't really think it's a personality thing, either. your justifications for your townread on me also were questionable, same goes for your read on catboi. not much that you've done since then has changed my mind

[fireisredsir]

yeet why did your read flip on andante from top scum to in the top town group?

[fireisredsir]

my running theory is that you're not very experienced at scum, but ive never seen you play scum so idk how true that is. people are usually more nervous as scum and i could see someone trying to mask that jumpiness by turning it into looking like chaotic towny energy

[fireisredsir]

I don’t even know what my read progression on catboi is and yet you’re scumreading me for it lol

yea, i mean, thats kind of part of the problem

[fireisredsir]

You’re right that I’m really had at scum. What made you think that?

And I would probably rather just lay low and be more stoic/outwardly logical if I was scum here. I wouldn’t try to fake something I feel uncomfortable about faking. Triply so if I’m the bomb

it seemed like the most logical explanation for what im seeing

and you might act that way, but i can't know that. i don't think you're likely to be the bomb though, so ill give you that at least

[fireisredsir]

Also like what is Enchant even doing? He usually has contributed a decent amount by this point as town.

this is not my experience

[fireisredsir]

Okay fire I think you’re getting distracted on me rn which is affecting your solve and I want to convince you to vote for monkey instead. What can I do to make that happen sooner?

you can help convince me why scum monkey acts the way he does if both leading wagons are town, i guess. and also what you think scum would be doing in this game state, and who that's likely to be

[fireisredsir]

Every time I am scum and Enchant is town he is obvtown from the very beginning

uh can you talk about why you put in the conditional here of you being scum

[fireisredsir]

Every time I am scum and Enchant is town he is obvtown from the very beginning

uh can you talk about why you put in the conditional here of you being scum

Because I’m scum this game and so subconsciously those are the scenarios I care about.

a sarcastic answer doesn't help, i want to know what you meant by that

[fireisredsir]

I just thought it was an interesting data point fmpov. I don’t think I’ve actually been TvT with him from gamestart. I answered in that way because it felt like your angle was to get me to slip in that way.

i don't really believe in actual slips like that, but I don't get why games where you were scum and they were town are relevant. how can you say they they're obvtown when you already know their alignment in those cases?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[fireisredsir]

i think ari is town

who do you think is scum

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

can you expand on your reasoning for wanting to yeet this slot?

i think he knows that he has a meta of pressuring and tunneling to gauge reactions as town, and knows that people in this game know that, but the way that he's doing it in this game feels too... calculated? like he doesn't really care about the results of what he's pressuring. it feels like it's just keeping up appearances. in the scumgames of his that i've read, he also likes to aggressively push for the position of a town leader early

if roden/ydrasse are town, and i know now that me/yeet are town, i think scum would want to get in there and sheep them on their bombsolve theories, and pump them up a little bit. the way that he interacted with the bombsolving felt more like that kind of behavior than it did genuine solving

i also think his push on umlaut was poorly supported, and felt suspiciously like his earlier cases that were fake for pressure, but he claimed that this one was real

i think his play around the end of day with the switch onto yeet looks extremely bad. seeing it live i was actually convinced he was partners with yeet and bussing. it was a pretty sudden turn onto yeet and dialed way up past the point of believability, conveniently right when it seemed like there was the possibility for a wagon to form on monkey himself

plus he said himself that he is easy to sort when put under pressure. so wagoning him is a win-win

[fireisredsir]

on the wiki version of the setup it says that the person who just got recruited/inoculated becomes the next recruiter/inoculator. so catboi could not have been the new recruit, since he would have flipped inoculator. i think

[fireisredsir]

well


oops

[fireisredsir]

ggwp! i guess i should have been more careful about voting. is the correct play there to wait for the inoculator to claim who they recruited and then lim there if there is no cc?

[fireisredsir]

also the story was extremely cool and well written, thanks for that!

[fireisredsir]

i will forever regret not unvoting yeet and joining onto you

i really thought it was a bus though. im guessing ydrasse had been recruited already and so you just needed to push the lim through?

[fireisredsir]

ahh i understand. that's unfortunate