Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!
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Roden He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Gonna ISO skim these five for now.In post 1152, Ydrasse wrote:-
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If I understand right, both scum can be in here. Is there anyone who can cross off the list as town? Since it was basically a nomination format, I'd consider town locking anyone who seemed to be a consistent choice Day 1.In post 1854, Aristeia wrote:
coalition failed - we are eliminating inside this group of 5:In post 1851, Roden wrote:Hello
I skimmed the past couple pages and mod posts, can I get a basic summary of anything important/notable that happened so far?
skitter
ari
datisi
menal
irrelephant
you should let us know who you want to vote off.-
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I don't understand this, Mena doesn't scum case STD before this post and only ever says that he needs more content in order to assess him.In post 1483, Menalque wrote:I refuse to live in a world where StD is town-
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I saw that, it just seems like there was suspicion, but it was never really explained until later. I did find a scum case afterwards but it's very meh, but I might change my mind after looking through STD's posts.In post 1861, fireisredsir wrote:1117 was about std, and he had previously said he wouldn't vote for a coalition with him in
not exactly a scumcase but yea
he had mentioned suspicion of him a few times before as well, like 492
Gonna skim Skitter next then. I'm looking through Mena and Datisi atm and I'm noticing that Datisi and Ari didn't seem to trust each other much early on, I'm kinda surprised they both ended up on the coalition.In post 1862, fireisredsir wrote:
ye, 1 or 2 scum. skitter was prob consensus most townread during coalition forming, rn i think it's fairly equal between skitter/ari/datisi, with some people having paranoia on each of themIn post 1858, Roden wrote:If I understand right, both scum can be in here. Is there anyone who can cross off the list as town? Since it was basically a nomination format, I'd consider town locking anyone who seemed to be a consistent choice Day 1.-
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After reading Mena's ISO and getting a feeling for the game state, I don't think Mena vs Elephant is SvS. Mena switching from "kill STD" to "kill Rella -> Ari" after acknowledging he's the most likely elim today feels like a spew that would be harmful to his scum partner since I don't think it would be either of them in that scenario, which makes me think it's a genuine final reads list from a dying townie. I think their frustration with this Day phase is also genuine. Going back further, though I don't think STD is scum, I do think Mena's case on him came from a solvey mindset.
I actually did read your ISO, I just wanted an updated take since EoD is approaching and you've been fence sitting.In post 1872, Datisi wrote:
i have an iso >.> but basically, thinking mena is town for [meta reasons that seem to not vibe with anyone other than skitter], ari is town for the way she played d1. have been thinking skitter is most likely scum in the coalition for a while (but i've kinda liked her more recent posting i guess??? jury's still out), and getting increasingly nervous about irrelIn post 1865, Roden wrote:@Datisi:Where's your head at? VCs aren't telling me anything about what you're thinking, you stuck to one coalition choice Day 1 and currently aren't voting anyone.
outside the coalition, thinking fire is town but fuck if i know about the other three -- std is more likely to be town than the other two i guess but i am v low confidence on all of those
NK15 feels obvtown to me, he's too confident and tunneled to be scum, and everyone here is competent enough to coach him to not flail with his reads/solves going into Day 2. Fire is null to me only because they didn't seem to have the spotlight at all so far. I agree with STD likely being town, but disagree with your Skitter scum read, consensus nominations tend to be town and nothing in her ISO sticks out as scummy to me.
I've noticed while skimming that a lot of people think there's at least one scum between you and Ari, and while I agree, I think it's odd that no one really seemed to push you two. It's too late in the day to do it now, but you two should've been leading wagons imo, that would've given everyone plenty of info seeing who would push who and if your wagons would naturally dissipate. If you were both town, I believe scum would see you two as the optimal push on Day 2, and if I'm right on NK15 being town then scum likely would've backed him when he scum cased the two of you. I just don't see how there could be zero momentum towards wagoning either of you if you're both town and part of the coalition.
I think I'm going to end up voting Elephant today, I just want to finish going through his ISO first. If I end up town reading him though then idk.-
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Oof, I finished going through Elephant's ISO then saw ten more pages crop up and that he replaced out. I came away with a town lean, and after catching up I think his replacement is town. Idk who Bloodhail is an alt of but I like their entrance, and us having similar reads after replacing in feels like a good sign that I'm on the right track.
VOTE: Datisi
Gonna go back and reply to some stuff.-
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Basically scum doesn't make those posts and final read lists if they know they're gonna die. Rena/Elephant and Rena/Ari don't work as scum teams at that point either since they don't fit a scum agenda. I wish was more eloquent in getting my thoughts across but I can't think of a better way of explaining it.In post 1887, skitter30 wrote:
I dont understand this bitIn post 1884, Roden wrote:Mena switching from "kill STD" to "kill Rella -> Ari" after acknowledging he's the most likely elim today feels like a spew that would be harmful to his scum partner since I don't think it would be either of them in that scenario,-
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Ironically, I thought your slot was partnered with Datisi before I finished catching up and you replaced in. I got the feeling that Datisi was fence sitting because his partner was one of the leading wagons and he possibly didn't know whether or not to bus. And I felt that he was trying to scare/pressure me into voting Mena by suddenly seeing Mena/Mala connections even though he also tried to fight me on my Skitter town read. Plus Datisi had awkward interactions with Elephant and had virtually no read on him until somewhat recently, and even that came off as tepid suspicion, like he didn't really want to elim there.In post 2081, bloodhail wrote:
you do realize i am suggestingIn post 2077, Roden wrote:Oof, I finished going through Elephant's ISO then saw ten more pages crop up and that he replaced out. I came away with a town lean, and after catching up I think his replacement is town. Idk who Bloodhail is an alt of but I like their entrance, and us having similar reads after replacing in feels like a good sign that I'm on the right track.
VOTE: Datisi
Gonna go back and reply to some stuff.youare the most likely partner, right
anyway i hold no secrets
Tbh I'm not completely over this theory yet despite town reading you. However if we do get a red Datisi flip, logically I don't see why you'd bus here, so I wouldn't want to flip you next.
I will say though that if I were partners with Datisi here, I wouldn't be distancing from him or fighting against the leading wagons. In that scenario, I have an extremely easy mis-elim chain of Elephant -> Mena -> STD/NK, and Ari would be so deeply pocketed that even if I got voted out, Datisi is still practically guaranteed to win in ELo. Me not taking that path and instead resisting it should indicate that we aren't partners, as I would've just voted Elephant and let Datisi hammer.-
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I'm not saying you never bus, I'm saying in the scenario where it's you/Datisi that it doesn't make sense for you to bus because you already have a game-winning route and all this does is draw attention to the both of you. I mean if you want to prove to me that it's totally possible for you to bus here then go ahead? I just don't see why you would power game yourself into a one-two knockout like that.In post 2096, bloodhail wrote:
uhh bro did u even click that link cmon. everyone is going to yell at you that i would absolutely bus so i'll do it firstIn post 2094, Roden wrote:However if we do get a red Datisi flip, logically I don't see why you'd bus here
i mean likeIn post 2094, Roden wrote:I will say though that if I were partners with Datisi here, I wouldn't be distancing from him or fighting against the leading wagons. In that scenario, I have an extremely easy mis-elim chain of Elephant -> Mena -> STD/NK, and Ari would be so deeply pocketed that even if I got voted out, Datisi is still practically guaranteed to win in ELo. Me not taking that path and instead resisting it should indicate that we aren't partners, as I would've just voted Elephant and let Datisi hammer.
in this scenario datisi is deep and not sacrificing his thread position for the sake of a day 1 elim (and any sudden hammer there is pretty bad) so i don't find this super compelling but if i'm wrong i'm wrong, my highest priority was reading within the coalition
I understand why you don't quite believe that Datisi and I aren't partners though, you've had trouble reading me in the past and I'm taking that into account.-
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In post 2109, Aristeia wrote:its ok we are all level zero players in the eyes of saint koba
I was thinking of both of them too lmaoIn post 2110, Aristeia wrote:or maybe saint flavor leaf
i dunno I get them mixed up a lot when they start ranting :>-
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Bizarre players require bizarre takes.In post 2115, fireisredsir wrote:
that reminds me, idk if anyone commented on it at the time cause sorting roden wasn't super high priorityIn post 1884, Roden wrote:NK15 feels obvtown to me, he's too confident and tunneled to be scum
but this is a bizarre take
I read NK15 and other players like him using a certain barometer: does this player actually believe in what they're saying? If you can determine that, it doesn't matter if you think they're saying nonsense. Tone + conviction is what matters, and it's what often gets that kind of player caught when they're scum.-
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They didn't change their solve, NK15 still wants Ari/Datisi as of their last post but settled for hunting else where because they kept getting shut down.In post 2120, fireisredsir wrote:
why does changing their solve every time they pop in the thread read as tunneled and confident to youIn post 2119, Roden wrote:
Bizarre players require bizarre takes.In post 2115, fireisredsir wrote:
that reminds me, idk if anyone commented on it at the time cause sorting roden wasn't super high priorityIn post 1884, Roden wrote:NK15 feels obvtown to me, he's too confident and tunneled to be scum
but this is a bizarre take
I read NK15 and other players like him using a certain barometer: does this player actually believe in what they're saying? If you can determine that, it doesn't matter if you think they're saying nonsense. Tone + conviction is what matters, and it's what often gets that kind of player caught when they're scum.-
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Scum doesn't publically say "my mis-elim isn't going through so let's try these guys instead"In post 1554, Not Known 15 wrote:
I was dead set on ari/dats but an ari yeet seems impossible so if it is that team we lost. So I can try to find different teams... and now that I looked at these interactions between STD/irrelephant I am no longer actually convinced that it is ari/dats.In post 1537, fireisredsir wrote:nk do you wanna talk about how during coalition forming you were dead set on one team and nothing in the world would make you reassess but then now you've proposed like uh... 5 different teams now or something? and keep jumping to a new one and disregarding whatever the previous one that you were convinced of was?-
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In post 2444, skitter30 wrote:Well that's an interesting night kill ...
I probably want to flip nk15 todayThis is where I'm at.
Why Ari? Also why did you disappear around the time one of your preferred elims actually had momentum on their wagon?In post 2443, Not Known 15 wrote:Myself and Ari will probably have to be limmed after this. This leaves us with one more lim. Who?-
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You're probably alive because you said you wanted to elim me next. Tbh you likely would've died if Mena hadn't replaced out since he was tunneled on town slots.In post 2449, bloodhail wrote:i mean that slot was very likely hardspewed town regardless but still
same tbhIn post 2446, Aristeia wrote:was kind of looking forward to getting night killed and not rereading tbh :<-
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Ngl, I wanted Datisi even before Blood replaced in but didn't think I could ever get him that late into Day 1. He has a better social game than me and is a master of AtE. Tbh I'm shocked he actually got voted out, even just a little bit of support from a team mate would've saved him imo.
That's the main reason I'm reevaluating my read on NK15, because while I think it's possible Fire bussed, I don't think the scum team was prepared for a last minute Datisi elim. I think it's just more likely he didn't get any help rather than him getting bussed.-
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To add on to the "scum weren't prepared" idea: I think all of Datisi's WIFOM attempts at the end were fake.In post 2460, Roden wrote:Ngl, I wanted Datisi even before Blood replaced in but didn't think I could ever get him that late into Day 1. He has a better social game than me and is a master of AtE. Tbh I'm shocked he actually got voted out, even just a little bit of support from a team mate would've saved him imo.
That's the main reason I'm reevaluating my read on NK15, because while I think it's possible Fire bussed, I don't think the scum team was prepared for a last minute Datisi elim. I think it's just more likely he didn't get any help rather than him getting bussed.-
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The slots he was tunneled on.In post 2486, fireisredsir wrote:
what slots are you referring to hereIn post 2454, Roden wrote:Tbh you likely would've died if Mena hadn't replaced out since he was tunneled on town slots.
We had this conversation yesterday.-
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In post 2479, Save The Dragons wrote:i think the kill is weird and i too have a dumb theory about it but it's probably just there to throw us off
i dunno i think gth it's just roden at this point? but i dunno what to think anymore i just townread everyone else more
You literally haven't interacted with meIn post 2481, Save The Dragons wrote:more than roden. i dunno maybe it is just ari/datisi and nk15 is a god i really don't know what to think
What makes you think I'm scum-
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In post 2495, fireisredsir wrote:
...did we? i can't find itIn post 2492, Roden wrote:
The slots he was tunneled on.In post 2486, fireisredsir wrote:
what slots are you referring to hereIn post 2454, Roden wrote:Tbh you likely would've died if Mena hadn't replaced out since he was tunneled on town slots.
We had this conversation yesterday.
why are you so confident in them being town?
It was with Skitter actually but yeah.In post 2083, Roden wrote:
Basically scum doesn't make those posts and final read lists if they know they're gonna die. Rena/Elephant and Rena/Ari don't work as scum teams at that point either since they don't fit a scum agenda. I wish was more eloquent in getting my thoughts across but I can't think of a better way of explaining it.In post 1887, skitter30 wrote:
I dont understand this bitIn post 1884, Roden wrote:Mena switching from "kill STD" to "kill Rella -> Ari" after acknowledging he's the most likely elim today feels like a spew that would be harmful to his scum partner since I don't think it would be either of them in that scenario,-
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Go on.In post 2496, Save The Dragons wrote:
malaIn post 2493, Roden wrote:In post 2479, Save The Dragons wrote:i think the kill is weird and i too have a dumb theory about it but it's probably just there to throw us off
i dunno i think gth it's just roden at this point? but i dunno what to think anymore i just townread everyone else more
You literally haven't interacted with meIn post 2481, Save The Dragons wrote:more than roden. i dunno maybe it is just ari/datisi and nk15 is a god i really don't know what to think
What makes you think I'm scum-
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Correctly would be preferableIn post 2502, Save The Dragons wrote:How should I be reading you-
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I don't think it can be anyone besides NK15 or Fire.In post 2503, bloodhail wrote:
dont worry about that right nowIn post 2501, Roden wrote:I'm good with getting Datisi Day 1and being happy with that
But it's going to be annoying as fuck if I get voted out after that just because people don't want to bother reading me
i get you think it's nk15, what are your other reads looking like right now?
I town locked Skitter early and Datisi tried to fight me on it, so I feel confident that she's town.
I don't think Ari is ever paired with Datisi, especially after that EoD where he was genuinely tilted over getting flash elim'd. He was set up to stay in town's good graces all game and had Ari in his pocket early on. Ari was reluctant to believe Datisi was scum, and I don't think she ever hedged or blindly trusted him.
I'm confident you didn't bus and already explained why. Your position in the game is too precarious to survive all the way to ELo and not be NK'd while Datisi was much better set up to solo win ELo.
STD early on was a gut town read, but going into today it's clear how lost he was all game.-
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Mala not going all in on you should be clearing after Mena's flip. Mena was tunneled on you and Mala could've easily followed, instead she voted Mena.In post 2512, Save The Dragons wrote:In post 2499, Roden wrote:
Go on.In post 2496, Save The Dragons wrote:
malaIn post 2493, Roden wrote:In post 2479, Save The Dragons wrote:i think the kill is weird and i too have a dumb theory about it but it's probably just there to throw us off
i dunno i think gth it's just roden at this point? but i dunno what to think anymore i just townread everyone else more
You literally haven't interacted with meIn post 2481, Save The Dragons wrote:more than roden. i dunno maybe it is just ari/datisi and nk15 is a god i really don't know what to think
What makes you think I'm scumIn post 29, Datisi wrote:good morning friends!!
v/la tuesdays and wednesdays- uni is hell on these days. i see the *extremely* short deadline for the coalition however so i will do my best to at least check in on my phone during these days if need be
HEAL: datisi
HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: malakittens
HEAL: aristeia
fire reads kinda tonally the same as he did last game. yes i did misread him that game shut up. i have a probably very horrible reason for a townping on malakittens. and i was always gonna heal ari anyway but i do genuinely like the callout in 26 to keep an eye on the deadline.
VOTE: aristeia <3
ari, why do you think fire is mafia?
why do they townread each other so early that bothers me.In post 178, Malakittens wrote:datis is prob town
ari feels town as well.
HEAL: datis
HEAL: ari
idk about skitter,
i'm very bad about reading std
i dont have much exp with fire
there's also literally no progression on her read of me it doesn't seem real. her other scumreads are kind of meh. she says things like "scum is in {std, ari, datisi} and also things like "ari/datisi aren't s/s" so why not go all in on me? she just...doesn't for no reason. and it's just kind of a garbled mess that looks like datisi kicked her in the pants to post
but i don't really know how to make it clearer to you that i have no idea what to do i feel like you're trying to jump on me for a weak read and i'm like i know it's a weak read but it's all i got.
Mala town read Datisi because Datisi's specialty is getting town read and guilting people into backing off their scum reads on him. I can only guess why Datisi "town read" Mala, but seeing as he also town read me while shading Blood, it was likely to build a fake association and pocket her.
And I'm not jumping on you for a weak read, I'm annoyed that you just defaulted to scum reading me again and that getting you to explain it is like pulling teeth.-
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Nah, Datisi lives without my vote there. Blood would've been at 4 votes at EoD if I voted there instead. I'm the only one who actually kept my vote on Datisi, without that momentum Blood just dies.In post 2522, fireisredsir wrote:
bc once bloodhail comes in with a scumread on datisi, datisi like almost always dies there? based on gamestate and how people were responding to him, even if he dies first datisi prob flips next, and you would want to be on that earlyIn post 2497, Roden wrote:Can anyone explain why they think I bus Datisi instead of just voting out Elephant and setting up Mena as the next mis-elim?
your trajectory was heading towards irrel until bloodhail showed up, and then you followed him onto datisi
Also let's not pretend you all were itching to vote Datisi. You weren't. And if you think really think Datisi couldn't work his way back into being a town read then you're massively underestimating him. Especially since Mena literally always dies after an Elephant mis-elim, if you disagree then show the posts that were against that yesterday.
Y'all were absolutely terrified of voting Datisi yesterday and hurting his feelings if he actually flipped town. If that weren't true the leading wagons wouldn't have been Mena vs Elephant.-
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Thanks.In post 2663, bloodhail wrote:
meh dont necessarily worry about that right nowIn post 2662, Roden wrote:I changed my mind, vote me out tomorrow if this is wrong.
do you have other thoughts on stuff that's been said?
happy scumday btw
I have to die today, because if it isn't Fire then scum just takes me and STD to ELo for a free win.
VOTE: Roden-
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For the record, I don't think I played badly this game. I'm proud of myself for correctly reading Datisi and helping to turn Day 1 around, and that my original read on NK15 was correct and that my method for reading him is more solid I expected it to be. My presence in a potential ELo is just a detriment, and I don't want to argue with STD if it comes to it.-
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I still think it's Fire, but if I'm wrong we lose. That's just how it is.In post 2673, bloodhail wrote:nah don't selfvote roden
i'm not convinced it's you
so take your vote off and talk to me about who you think it is-
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NK15/Fire was the PoE, mainly because I just town read everyone else. NK15 was only there because nobody liked my town read or reasoning and I figured if I was wrong about a slot, it was that one, plus Datisi's elim also felt clearing of Fire at the time.In post 2678, bloodhail wrote:
why do you think it is fire?In post 2675, Roden wrote:
I still think it's Fire, but if I'm wrong we lose. That's just how it is.In post 2673, bloodhail wrote:nah don't selfvote roden
i'm not convinced it's you
so take your vote off and talk to me about who you think it is-
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I've been running scenarios in my head and this is exactly what I've been thinking about as well.In post 2711, fireisredsir wrote:but im guessing you're asking under the assumption that you are flipping today and are town
if thats the case, then if it isn't std, then he prob gets nkd, and then ari votes me, and then bh either ends the game or it's ari and then deciding on that is his problem
if std doesn't die then ill be scrutinizing him carefully to make sure he is town but idk if i would exactly be pushing there
im actually not really sure of a potential scenario where i am going to be the one pushing anyone
maybe bh and ari turn on each other and then i cry in the corner-
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The way Fire played it felt unaligned. They added pressure that wasn't necessary if they were partnered, and it wouldn't indicate associatives between them if Fire just voted out Blood. The mad scramble to flip Datisi at the last couple hours shouldn't have happened if the team was Datisi/Fire.In post 2713, Aristeia wrote:how does Datisi's elim clear fire?
Then again, we're on Day 4 now and it wasn't NK15. Also wasn't Skitter apparently, which I didn't expect since I did town lock her but I don't understand why she was killed.-
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It's frustrating because STD is just defaulting to scum reading me against all logic once again and it feels like he's learned nothing. His read on Mala doesn't make any sense and his defense of it is even worse. He'd rather fight me than solve me which just makes it an automatic town loss if we go to ELo.In post 2677, bloodhail wrote:
please don't throw in the towel by selfvotingIn post 2674, Roden wrote:For the record, I don't think I played badly this game. I'm proud of myself for correctly reading Datisi and helping to turn Day 1 around, and that my original read on NK15 was correct and that my method for reading him is more solid I expected it to be. My presence in a potential ELo is just a detriment, and I don't want to argue with STD if it comes to it.
have you not seen my posts - i am not at all convinced it is you
i realize you're worried about getting tunneled by std here but let's pick up the pieces and try to figure things out, yeah?
i understand feeling like you're being tunneled can be irritating and you had to deal with very unusual circumstances this game but i'd like it if you tried your best here, all right?
But honestly the worst part about this is that he absolutely knows how far I'll go to save a scum buddy because of the one newbie game we rolled scum together in. He was sinking and I still did everything I could to kill apathy and shade townies to keep him alive. Yet he thinks I'd join a game, see my partner is fucking Datisi, and decide to sink his perfect positioning in the game by bussing him instead of just voting Elephant and drawing aggro from everyone so that he could slip into ELo without drawing attention.
It's just bonkers to think I'd do any of that, especially when Datisi has a much better social game than me and had several people pocketed. As opposed to me who literally replaced into a scum read slot who can't get people to back off unless I self vote and AtE.-
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Because he put Datisi in hammer range instead of just voting out Blood earlier when he had the chance.In post 2717, Aristeia wrote:
I don't understand.In post 2715, Roden wrote:
The way Fire played it felt unaligned. They added pressure that wasn't necessary if they were partnered, and it wouldn't indicate associatives between them if Fire just voted out Blood. The mad scramble to flip Datisi at the last couple hours shouldn't have happened if the team was Datisi/Fire.In post 2713, Aristeia wrote:how does Datisi's elim clear fire?
Then again, we're on Day 4 now and it wasn't NK15. Also wasn't Skitter apparently, which I didn't expect since I did town lock her but I don't understand why she was killed.
Fire didn't vote Datisi until like the last minute when Datisi was at 3 votes[roden, me, std] and BH/Skitter are likely to vote for Datisi, I don't really see how fire voting for Datisi means anything atp.-
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In post 1884, Roden wrote:After reading Mena's ISO and getting a feeling for the game state, I don't think Mena vs Elephant is SvS. Mena switching from "kill STD" to "kill Rella -> Ari" after acknowledging he's the most likely elim today feels like a spew that would be harmful to his scum partner since I don't think it would be either of them in that scenario, which makes me think it's a genuine final reads list from a dying townie. I think their frustration with this Day phase is also genuine. Going back further, though I don't think STD is scum, I do think Mena's case on him came from a solvey mindset.
I actually did read your ISO, I just wanted an updated take since EoD is approaching and you've been fence sitting.In post 1872, Datisi wrote:
i have an iso >.> but basically, thinking mena is town for [meta reasons that seem to not vibe with anyone other than skitter], ari is town for the way she played d1. have been thinking skitter is most likely scum in the coalition for a while (but i've kinda liked her more recent posting i guess??? jury's still out), and getting increasingly nervous about irrelIn post 1865, Roden wrote:@Datisi:Where's your head at? VCs aren't telling me anything about what you're thinking, you stuck to one coalition choice Day 1 and currently aren't voting anyone.
outside the coalition, thinking fire is town but fuck if i know about the other three -- std is more likely to be town than the other two i guess but i am v low confidence on all of those
NK15 feels obvtown to me, he's too confident and tunneled to be scum, and everyone here is competent enough to coach him to not flail with his reads/solves going into Day 2. Fire is null to me only because they didn't seem to have the spotlight at all so far. I agree with STD likely being town, but disagree with your Skitter scum read, consensus nominations tend to be town and nothing in her ISO sticks out as scummy to me.
I've noticed while skimming that a lot of people think there's at least one scum between you and Ari, and while I agree, I think it's odd that no one really seemed to push you two. It's too late in the day to do it now, but you two should've been leading wagons imo, that would've given everyone plenty of info seeing who would push who and if your wagons would naturally dissipate. If you were both town, I believe scum would see you two as the optimal push on Day 2, and if I'm right on NK15 being town then scum likely would've backed him when he scum cased the two of you. I just don't see how there could be zero momentum towards wagoning either of you if you're both town and part of the coalition.
I think I'm going to end up voting Elephant today, I just want to finish going through his ISO first. If I end up town reading him though then idk.
Not sure how this isn't a choice.In post 2077, Roden wrote:Oof, I finished going through Elephant's ISO then saw ten more pages crop up and that he replaced out. I came away with a town lean, and after catching up I think his replacement is town. Idk who Bloodhail is an alt of but I like their entrance, and us having similar reads after replacing in feels like a good sign that I'm on the right track.
VOTE: Datisi
Gonna go back and reply to some stuff.-
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1. The hammer range actually matters a lot, there was barely any time left and nearly everyone was doubting that Datisi would actually flip scum. Blood E-1 and Datisi E-2 with some convincing AtE from Datisi can save him and mis-elim the player pushing him the most.In post 2726, Aristeia wrote:In post 2723, Roden wrote:
Because he put Datisi in hammer range instead of just voting out Blood earlier when he had the chance.In post 2717, Aristeia wrote:
I don't understand.In post 2715, Roden wrote:
The way Fire played it felt unaligned. They added pressure that wasn't necessary if they were partnered, and it wouldn't indicate associatives between them if Fire just voted out Blood. The mad scramble to flip Datisi at the last couple hours shouldn't have happened if the team was Datisi/Fire.In post 2713, Aristeia wrote:how does Datisi's elim clear fire?
Then again, we're on Day 4 now and it wasn't NK15. Also wasn't Skitter apparently, which I didn't expect since I did town lock her but I don't understand why she was killed.
Fire didn't vote Datisi until like the last minute when Datisi was at 3 votes[roden, me, std] and BH/Skitter are likely to vote for Datisi, I don't really see how fire voting for Datisi means anything atp.
1] Putting Datisi in "hammer range" doesn't mean anything because Datisi was at 3 votes and skitter/blood hail had both not voted for Datisi yet, Blood Hail obviously has no issue with voting for Datisi and Skitter had unvoted Blood Hail and I kind of doubt she votes for BH after BH offered to self-vote himself off to resolve the 1v1.
2] "voting out bloodhail when he had the chance"
like blood hail wagon at peak was at 4 [nk15, skitter, mena, datisi] - so 3 flipped townies + datisi!mafia. Which means any partner of Datisi's had the oppurtunity to vote off Blood Hail, it's not really clearing if it's something p much anyone can do?
2. The timing of it and who was actually around is what mattered at that point. Fire was around and NK15 wasn't, so I leaned more toward the latter being scum at the time.-
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You...realize I played a part in that game state change, right?In post 2727, fireisredsir wrote:
bc the first one you say you are leaning towards voting irrel, and the second one is after irrel is gone, and bloodhail has come in with a scumread on datisiIn post 2725, Roden wrote:Not sure how this isn't a choice.
the gamestate has changed significantly between those two, and by the point you made the datisi vote, he was likely to die even if bloodhail flipped first (assuming bh town)
at the time you voted datisi, voting irrel was not an option bc irrel was gone
Datisi was never going to die without my vote and my reads countering his. It would've just been Blood's single vote against Datisi, which he later backed out of anyway when he self-voted soon after. I think it's completely disingenuous to pretend Datisi was in serious danger before that point.-
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Why does Blood unvote when he self voted to secure that an elim actually happens? He was pushing Datisi harder than anyone and even he didn't think Datisi would get voted out over him.In post 2737, Aristeia wrote:the vote count was
Datisi 3 [Roden, Ari, STD]
Blood Hail 3[Nk15, Datisi, Blood Hail]
Ari 1 [Mena]
Mena 1[Fire]
Not Voting 1 [ Skitter]
I think it's pretty clear skitter/BH could swing to vote off Datisi
voting for BH is dangerous because BH can always unvote and it's unclear where hammer vote on BH comes from.-
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This just isn't true, Mena was set up to go next after Elephant/Blood. It feels like you're just assuming Datisi rolls and dies in the Day phase which just, doesn't happen.In post 2744, fireisredsir wrote:
you realize that my point is not whether datisi was going to die that day, right? ive said that multiple times in multiple contexts. i think that as soon as bloodhail shows up with a scumread on datisi, that datisi was going to die even if bloodhail flipped first. there was enough lingering suspicion on datisi out there for that to be p much a certainty imo. and i think that if datisi + his partner recognized that, it makes sense for them to set up best for elo by having a suspicion on datisi as soon as possibleIn post 2739, Roden wrote:
You...realize I played a part in that game state change, right?In post 2727, fireisredsir wrote:
bc the first one you say you are leaning towards voting irrel, and the second one is after irrel is gone, and bloodhail has come in with a scumread on datisiIn post 2725, Roden wrote:Not sure how this isn't a choice.
the gamestate has changed significantly between those two, and by the point you made the datisi vote, he was likely to die even if bloodhail flipped first (assuming bh town)
at the time you voted datisi, voting irrel was not an option bc irrel was gone
Datisi was never going to die without my vote and my reads countering his. It would've just been Blood's single vote against Datisi, which he later backed out of anyway when he self-voted soon after. I think it's completely disingenuous to pretend Datisi was in serious danger before that point.-
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...I have a bad feeling that it isn't Ari or Fire. Idk. I got a really weird feeling when they both cross examined me at the same time. Ari feels really set on Fire being scum and thinking that I'm town. Fire on the other hand admitted they don't know who to push, which feels too blunt to come from scum who's in a very small PoE and needs to survive.
I still don't think it's Blood though. And STD still feels gut town. Something's off.-
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In post 2859, Aristeia wrote:I mean Roden has self voted and fucked off from the thread
are you really scumreading that
I didn't fuck off, I'm waiting on some kind of follow up from STD.In post 2860, fireisredsir wrote:no i was scumreading him for his earlier play
im not gonna townread him for looking like he's given up when he's most likely going to get eliminated at some point
actually his current actions probably have the best chance at getting him out of it bc people always want to try to find the sneaky clever scum when it gets to endgame
idk im not really sure if he's more likely to be scum at this point but even if he's not i want him to actually play
In post 2753, Save The Dragons wrote:I'm not going to just tunnel you roden for things mala did
I wanna talk about it-
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Why would you be in ELo tomorrow in that scenario instead of STD? Nobody suspects you or wants to vote you.In post 2849, bloodhail wrote:VOTE: aristeia
don't have a ton more to say. i'm not thrilled by roden's last post but if you vote him out today and he's town i probably just just vote fire tomorrow-
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I've already given my takes on those questions.In post 2871, Save The Dragons wrote:i guess my problem is mala did scummy things and she's not here to defend herself.
and the answers you gave are reachy. but that's probably what i should just expect from you if i'm remembering why i scumread you in control which makes it NAI.
i know it's hard but it would help if you were engaged this day phase.
like what do you think of bh's case on ari? what do you think of ari's consistent scumread of fire? what am i missing that should make it obvious you are town?
Don't really think it's fair at all to say my answers are reachy and that they were in Control. You literally scum read me five days in a row because of something I said in RVS that game and because I didn't have solid reads on the entire player list early into Day 1. And here you're scum reading Mala in a way that implies you think she purposely game threw.
It's hard as fuck to stay engaged knowing you scum read me regardless of logic. Like you can say you aren't tunneled but you made it clear yesterday that you thought I was scum over anyone else and didn't want to question anyone.-
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Blood please answer this.In post 2870, Roden wrote:
Why would you be in ELo tomorrow in that scenario instead of STD? Nobody suspects you or wants to vote you.In post 2849, bloodhail wrote:VOTE: aristeia
don't have a ton more to say. i'm not thrilled by roden's last post but if you vote him out today and he's town i probably just just vote fire tomorrow-
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That's...literally what you did to my slot?In post 2888, Save The Dragons wrote:you selected him to be scumread by you (scum) as opposed to having it come up organically as a read (town)-
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Play the gameIn post 2903, Save The Dragons wrote:what do you want me to do
What? You kept saying all day yesterday and the day before that you thought it was me.In post 2904, Save The Dragons wrote:i thought it was ari yesterday you seem to think that me voting ari means i really wanted to vote you for some reason i don't get