open 852: store bought potions (sold!)

[Roden]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Any clodpole potions to offer?

[Roden]

I think we do organize because then we can diagnose what happened when it didn't fire, and it would help us gamesolve.

I sus Enchant for floating that idea in the ether.

Ok.

You do it then, and then i will say how bad your plan is.

What's bad about it?

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Sinatra vs NM is TvT. Can I get the two of you to back off for a moment and reset please?

[Roden]

I am now the most active player in this game

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Indeed.
VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

Don't feed trolls...

What's going on here Enchant?

[Roden]

Nancy, you may have accidentally voted for yourself there.

[Roden]

I think the VC might still count it since the formatting messed the quote up, though the mod has final say on whether it counts or not. To be safe it's probably to avoid quoting that post for now until the mod makes an official ruling on it.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Sinatra vs NM is TvT. Can I get the two of you to back off for a moment and reset please?

What are your reads on HEM, Dwlee, STD?

~N

Not really enough to go on tbh. I'm sure there's scum within those three, might even be funny if all three scum were power wolfing and voting together but I doubt it. As it is though, they're mainly just cheerleading your shit fight with NM. Dwlee seems a bit more serious about it, and the other two could feasibly just be memeing. HEM actually seems half memeing half serious, going by the earlier comments he made.

lol nancy is actually scummy

idk man nancy's reaction to n_m feels off

Around here is when he starts making his scum read on you much more serious, but overrall he's still giving off an air of just wanting to joke around. If scum, his angle could be to push a mis-elim through and then claim "it was just a prank bro".

@HEM:

How serious is your scum read here?

[Roden]

If scum, his angle could be to push a mis-elim through and then claim "it was just a prank bro".

hahaha lmao what do i really play like this

i meant every word i said about nancy

i also dont have any strong reads right now where everything fits in like a theory of everything. i also dont want to overthink things. i just want to park my vote in nancy, dip out, check again if nancy still looks bad, then dip out.

Typically I would say no that you don't play like this, but the feeling I'm getting from this game is that it's getting somewhat treated like a meme game. Some people are just messing around, and not a lot of people have been posting. So I don't think it would be impossible to push a mis-elim through and then brush off suspicion by saying that you weren't taking it too seriously.

It is good to know that you're serious about your read on Nancy though.

[Roden]

wat is scum going for a quickelim here?

Who is this referring to?

~N

anything goes to E-1 this early, pretty safe to say that's scum dashing for an opportune quickelim. so im just gonna give away a free townread towards n_m here. also i like the strength of his push.

Gullo called me “caught scum” in that game I posted, so unless that is somehow town indicative for NM, it means nothing and I still think one or both of you could be scum here.

Why Roden is convinced it’s TvT is beyond me.

Also, if you think scum is pushing NM, then why are you still voting me?

~N

I think you're town because of how you're reacting. I think you would just be more tactical as scum here, brush off the scum read on you and probably employ some AtE.

NM is probably town just because of his early aggression. I know that it isn't necessarily a town tell for him, but his tunnel on you feels genuine. I think he's just wrong though.

Alternatively, it's possible that you two are SvS and it's just theatre, but I don't really see the point of it. Game state feels a bit too apathetic for that to be necessary imo.

[Roden]

Because also I react that way as town when somebody comes up with what I perceive as a bad reason to scum read me, and I see people just follow along. Not saying Nancy and I play the exact same way, but I recognize the similarities. I've also seen her scum game, like I said earlier I think she knows how to deal with pressure better as scum.

[Roden]

Lol

Ngl I kinda think Enchant is scum but I don't have much to go on

[Roden]

I am now the most active player in this game

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Indeed.
VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

Don't feed trolls...

What's going on here Enchant?

The vote on you feels random considering they seemed to think you were just a townie with a bad idea earlier. Softly warning Nancy to stop arguing with NM is also just out of character for him, like I'd probably town read him if he tried to cheerlead their fight. It also also implies that he thinks they're TvT, but that's possibly just an assumption and I'm looking too deep into his words.

But yeah, not a lot to go on here. I'm not used to him having low presence in a game in general.

[Roden]

VOTE: Enchant

[Roden]

What

[Roden]

I don't think he's toxic, but he has burned a few people.

[Roden]

Dwlee is weird right now, they're not really posting much but they're not being particularly lazy or "clean", just kinda of occasionally popping into the thread to dunk on Nancy.

[Roden]

There's a handful of people saying it isn't scummy in return though. I don't think you could make that argument without the opposing side being able to say the same as well.

[Roden]

Even saying "well several people find this scummy so it must have some merit" is wrong here because Day 1 mis-elims commonly happen exactly because of that.

Like I'd probably find it more believable if you were accusing Nancy if being level 0 scum and linking past games where's she acted this way as scum. But the consensus from the people accusing her seems to be that they don't normally see her react this way at all.

[Roden]

Imo that's 1.) Less significant of an agreement and 2.) No one is arguing that people defending Nancy are doing so disingenuously

1) How so?

2) I'm not sure what to say here. Do you mean that the people defending her are seen as pure town, as opposed to the ones scum reading having scum in that group? If so, how do you think that affects the situation?

[Roden]

It's not about merit, it's that it's a town thought process that we think she is caught for wrong reasons. My point isn't even that we are right here, it's just that gamma calling the push disingenuous is bad

That doesn't seem to be the basis of the push though, from what I understand that's only your reason for pushing Nancy. NM started the wagon seemingly to just get a reaction out of her. STD didn't like the OMGUS and popcorn. HEM didn't like the olive branch and only later said he mind melded with you, but never made any mention of "caught for the wrong reason" until you brought it up.

That's why I'm saying that it's odd to accuse her of playing different than what you expect while also scum reading her. Either she's scum telling in four different ways and is an abysmal scum player, or she's just a flailing townie reacting strongly to pressure from four different players who are attacking her.

[Roden]

TIL 1-4 town on a read = BS read

?

Any shared read that consists of 50% or more scum players is a pretty bad read. 1 town 3 scum sharing a read is literally just a pocket.

I think you have a point if it's 1 scum 3 town or all 4 town having a mind meld. But if you think there's a chance 2 or more scum are sharing a read with town then I think it's a really bad read.

[Roden]

In an case, I know how you can react as town, it's not about that for me

Who do you think Sinatra's scum partners are?

[Roden]

I am not good at the game, I wish people would stop saying this

You're definitely not bad. You can showcase awareness of the game state and cut through bullshit when you want to. You're just not sweaty in most games, and it's interesting to see you swap from constant obfuscation, to smart choices and aggressive pushes.

[Roden]

Sinatra and NM, the reason I asked you two to reset earlier is because we have players who aren't doing much and aren't staking any claims any which way.

[Roden]

TIL 1-4 town on a read = BS read

?

Any shared read that consists of 50% or more scum players is a pretty bad read. 1 town 3 scum sharing a read is literally just a pocket.

I think you have a point if it's 1 scum 3 town or all 4 town having a mind meld. But if you think there's a chance 2 or more scum are sharing a read with town then I think it's a really bad read.

BS read =/= bad read

Please try to come up with a response that isn't solely about semantics.

[Roden]

I believe in meta when it makes my point. I don't believe it when it doesn't.

Ew.

[Roden]

TIL 1-4 town on a read = BS read

?

Any shared read that consists of 50% or more scum players is a pretty bad read. 1 town 3 scum sharing a read is literally just a pocket.

I think you have a point if it's 1 scum 3 town or all 4 town having a mind meld. But if you think there's a chance 2 or more scum are sharing a read with town then I think it's a really bad read.

BS read =/= bad read

Please try to come up with a response that isn't solely about semantics.

We are on different planets dude

VOTE: STD

[Roden]

TIL 1-4 town on a read = BS read

?

Any shared read that consists of 50% or more scum players is a pretty BS read. 1 town 3 scum sharing a read is literally just a pocket.

I think you have a point if it's 1 scum 3 town or all 4 town having a mind meld. But if you think there's a chance 2 or more scum are sharing a read with town then I think it's a really BS read.

There you go.

[Roden]

Roden, i think he meant that bad does not mean bs and i agree. bs is made-up and non-existent. bad is inaccurate.

I know what he means. He also knows what I mean and the point I'm trying to make.

[Roden]

Why the AtE

[Roden]

We've literally only fought in two games and you were scum in one of them

[Roden]

We've literally only fought in two games and you were scum in one of them

And I'm literally trying to not make it 3 because I don't want you to feel like it seemed you were feeling in that scum game of mine

I don't really understand why town!you says this here or why you're being vague about your intentions. Just own what happened and be straightforward. If you feel uncomfortable or bad or whatever because of how you played...well, ok then.

Honestly though it feels more like you're assuming I'm coming at you because I have some grudge against you after that game. But the truth is that it just won't affect my read on you in an entirely different game, besides an updated scum meta I guess. And I'm pretty sure you know this because I very clearly went out of my way to not scum read you that game until I absolutely had no other choice. I think it's somewhat known at this point that I'm more likely to carefully reassess and town read a player I've fought with before.

Saying shit like "oh I'm just gonna hide" or "I don't want fight" doesn't help anyone. And if I'm saying something to the effect of "if you actually think there's a chance you're getting pocketed by the entire scum team then the read is probably bad" and your only response is "BS reads =/= bad reads"...like, what am I supposed to say to that? I clearly had a point I was trying to make and all you did was complain about my word choice. If you don't want to fight then maybe don't just be dismissive and argue about things that don't matter.

[Roden]

I made a jokey comment

Roden responds to my jokey comment with dead seriousness

We are just not on the same page and that's fine

My scumdar is pinging on roden like crazy but I know I always have confronted him 100% and it just happens I'm trying to give it space and not listen to my scumdar because roden just pings it and will probably always ping it

Reducing our interactions to "we're just not on the same page" is unfair to both of us and honestly just wrong. We've only had one actual TvT fight and have been relatively civil otherwise. You've really only scum read me once from what I can recall as well so I don't see how I could always be pinging you.

[Roden]

What do you actually want me to answer

What are you referring to?

[Roden]

I've made my peace I'm happy to laugh at you all from the dead thread but what are you going to do when it's not me? What are you going to let Nancy and roden get away with?

What did I do??

[Roden]

What do you actually want me to answer

What are you referring to?

Anything you want me to answer I'll try to answer so long as you question me now

Why the AtE

We've literally only fought in two games and you were scum in one of them

And I'm literally trying to not make it 3 because I don't want you to feel like it seemed you were feeling in that scum game of mine

I don't really understand why town!you says this here or why you're being vague about your intentions.

...

Saying shit like "oh I'm just gonna hide" or "I don't want fight" doesn't help anyone. And if I'm saying something to the effect of "if you actually think there's a chance you're getting pocketed by the entire scum team then the read is probably bad" and your only response is "BS reads =/= bad reads"...like, what am I supposed to say to that? I clearly had a point I was trying to make.

I made a jokey comment

Roden responds to my jokey comment with dead seriousness

We are just not on the same page and that's fine

My scumdar is pinging on roden like crazy but I know I always have confronted him 100% and it just happens I'm trying to give it space and not listen to my scumdar because roden just pings it and will probably always ping it

...You've really only scum read me once from what I can recall as well so I don't see how I could always be pinging you.

[Roden]

I also just, don't know why you're scum reading me STD. I didn't even know you were until you said I was pinging you.

[Roden]

Isn't it obvious why someone would get emotional when being wrongfully attacked

Uhhhhhhhh...

I see your point about bs reads and I thought I already said I disagreed? If not, that's my entire answer. I disagree with you.

What exactly do you disagree with?

It's pinging me from that one game and it's pinging me now so I don't see what the issue or disconnect is. If you really care that I said "many" but really meant "two" I think the issue doesn't lie with me

What game?

It's not even two. You misread me exactly once, months ago. That's the disconnect here when you say we're on completely different planets or that we're not on the same page. We've only had one actual town vs town argument. I don't understand how you can write off another person off of one argument, when the only other time we argued was something you instigated on purpose.

[Roden]

I disagree that it's a bad or bs read

Why? Like I said, I understand if all town or 3 town one scum were agreeing on a read that you have a point. But you claimed 2 or even all 3 scum agreeing on a read still makes it a good non-BS read. Like, how does that work out?

[Roden]

Control was a game I had an argument with you and misread you
This is a game where I feel like I'm misreading you

So the way I played in Control was pinging you similarly to how I'm playing now. But now you think you're just misreading me. Do I have that right?

What exactly did I do that pinged you this game? Because I had no idea that you scum read me until after you tried to disengage.

[Roden]

I disagree that it's a bad or bs read

Why? Like I said, I understand if all town or 3 town one scum were agreeing on a read that you have a point. But you claimed 2 or even all 3 scum agreeing on a read still makes it a good non-BS read. Like, how does that work out?

Why is this so important to you it's so insignificant to me

It's kinda important to know if you actually mean what you say and if you actually believe in it. Because you're implying that you're potentially pocketed by one, two, or all of NM Dwlee and HEM, and that even if you were that your Nancy read is still a good read.

Like, do you understand how that wouldn't really make any sense to me?

[Roden]

Control was a game I had an argument with you and misread you
This is a game where I feel like I'm misreading you

So the way I played in Control was pinging you similarly to how I'm playing now. But now you think you're just misreading me. Do I have that right?

What exactly did I do that pinged you this game? Because I had no idea that you scum read me until after you tried to disengage.

I didn't want to broadcast it because I wanted to be more confident I was actually reading you correctly and not just picking up on the nuanced things you do thst make me think you were scum in control and what I was able to use to help try and bury you in the coalition game that just ended.

I think attacking me for BS/bad whatever reads looks like posting just to post but maybe you just do that I dunno how to read you

I...don't think I attacked you. I didn't even say it was scummy. I just thought your reasoning was flawed. I got annoyed when you just dismissed and disengaged instead of trying to solve. Like you can say you don't want to argue but I feel like you'd still rather fight than just debate a point.

Also...how is that me posting just to post? I was engaging with several players and had just town cased Sinatra before I said anything to you. I was already posting and don't really need an excuse to post more. I don't really get that.

[Roden]

I disagree that it's a bad or bs read

Why? Like I said, I understand if all town or 3 town one scum were agreeing on a read that you have a point. But you claimed 2 or even all 3 scum agreeing on a read still makes it a good non-BS read. Like, how does that work out?

Why is this so important to you it's so insignificant to me

It's kinda important to know if you actually mean what you say and if you actually believe in it. Because you're implying that you're potentially pocketed by one, two, or all of NM Dwlee and HEM, and that even if you were that your Nancy read is still a good read.

Like, do you understand how that wouldn't really make any sense to me?

Then 1 town still believes in the read so it's not purely a scum read

I understand exactly why it wouldn't make sense to you

I...didn't say anything about it purely being a scum read.

If you understand then why is there a disconnect? Why do you think you can't read me?

I just don't understand why it matters whether I believe it's a bs read or not because it has nothing to do with my alignment I'm just going to tell you how I feel regardless of alignment. So what are you getting from this conversation?

Because that's how I read people. You already know this.

[Roden]

Enchant is pushing me because I cased him earlier

[Roden]

Drinking those OMGUS potions today I guess

[Roden]

Enchant just wanting someone to die and not caring who is more town than scum for him

Bur I don't think I've ever been town vs scum!Enchant so idk if him lashing out at whoever votes him is actually AI

[Roden]

Roden did I leave anything unanswered

Don't think so

Idk, I don't think you're scum but I'm also a sucker for AtE

UNVOTE:

Mainly just voted to get you to talk to me

[Roden]

...He didn't tell you?

[Roden]

@Flea, @Gamma, do you think it’s possible I’m being pocketed? After WH, I’m so paranoid about once again getting shitpushed.

Since you didn't @ me, I assume that you think I could be pocketing you.

[Roden]

@Flea, @Gamma, do you think it’s possible I’m being pocketed? After WH, I’m so paranoid about once again getting shitpushed.

Since you didn't @ me, I assume that you think I could be pocketing you.

You seem relatively townie but I haven’t forgotten Newbie. I don’t even know if it’s even a thing but I’m extremely confident that Flea and Gamma aren’t.

Oh. Fair I guess, idk what I can say to ease that fear though. Hopefully you'll be able to read me more confidently as the game goes on.

[Roden]

is anyone scumreading me?

Ngl, not really liking all of the "how does everyone feel about X" posts but then not having much to say yourself.

[Roden]

I believe in meta when it makes my point. I don't believe it when it doesn't.

Would you believe in a meta read that might town clear you

[Roden]

I believe in meta when it makes my point. I don't believe it when it doesn't.

Would you believe in a meta read that might town clear you

He’s actually played like this as town before?

Yes but that's not quite what I'm thinking.

Would you say STD is bold as scum?

Open question for anyone who has a feeling for his meta btw.

[Roden]

I think a 3 way TvT is more likely than scum theatre tbh. Scum have a massive numbers advantage and I don't see the point of throwing it away for theatre that takes up the entirety of the day phase. Especially when scum know town has Pain potions and can semi-Vig their scum reads without it having the full weight and responsibility of a normal Vig shot.

What I think is most likely is that scum see a bunch of townies fighting with each other and decide to be as minimally involved as possible.

Granted, I've said shit like "if they're scum then idk what they're doing" and then been burned before.

I do think it's odd that the people who scum read Nancy aren't really defending STD. Just arguing more with Nancy and Flea. Like all this talk about mindmeld and town blocks, but it's not really there.

[Roden]

nancy sinatra is being replaced by venus and mars, a hydra of nd39 & shiro

Huh. I had no idea hydras could enter mid-game. That's kinda interesting.

[Roden]

STD what do you think of your town block mindmeld doing absolutely nothing to help or defend you

[Roden]

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

Alright.

Going by your reads, I assume your PoE is something like Nancy/Gamma/Facebones/myself, with just a maybe on me since you've said you think you're misreading me. Is this correct?

[Roden]

STD what do you think of your town block mindmeld doing absolutely nothing to help or defend you

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

@Roden. I disagree with this. NM has defended STD and when pressure on my slot dwindled, he started up the harassment again and it is harassment because I feel extremely scared I will lose it on him and get another ban. so it’s actually cruel what he’s doing to me at this point. No one should feel terrified that another player is upsetting them to the extent, they’re seriously worried about getting banned.

Just ignore NM then. If you don't think his push has any substance and it's just to bait a bad reaction out of you then stop responding.

I don't think NM is doing much to defend him, even STD doesn't seem to recall it. So if he did then not even STD took notice.

[Roden]

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

Alright.

Going by your reads, I assume your PoE is something like Nancy/Gamma/Facebones/myself, with just a maybe on me since you've said you think you're misreading me. Is this correct?

Oh wait you just voted Kitty, he's part of your PoE too then.

[Roden]

Ehhhh I kinda see it

PE: Yeah I looked up Face in your ISO and didn't see any mentions. I'm just assuming PoE just from the fact you have no take on him yet.

[Roden]

I only played with Face once, it was in a Newbie and he was town. General lack of activity and presence matches up with what I remember of him. I don't have much of an opinion on him besides that.

[Roden]

can someone summarize the gamestate i feel the need to be re-oriented

Team Nancy vs Team STD is at a standstill. Personally I don't feel like scum are doing much right now but idk.

Momentum seems to be shifting towards voting out a lurker but it would be really low info if the one we elim flips town. We'd just be in the same spot again tomorrow in that case.

[Roden]

I think I want to let Shiro catch up and give some takes first before I do anything else

[Roden]

If you can call lying a effort then yes, Roden does.

?

[Roden]

is anyone scumreading me?

Ngl, not really liking all of the "how does everyone feel about X" posts but then not having much to say yourself.

[Roden]

If you're town idk how you're pocketed here since I don't think anyone made much of an effort to buddy you. If scum think you're useful it's probably because you've positioned yourself to follow through on any popular wagon you want and consider you an extra vote if they need to make a push.

[Roden]

roden if you had to vote right now who would you vote

NM. If I'm wrong about a town read it's probably there. Switching to Kitty after he said he was going to off-wagon tunnel Nancy all game makes it seem like he just wants to push an elim through.

okay you can continue to not like them because i dont really have much to say. each passing moment, our intuition is betrayed by our second-guessing and i want to hold on to the really strong stuff that i felt watching std waffle and be scummy.

You could just throw Pain potions there if you really think it's decisive evidence but can't get enough people to follow you there today. You've made it clear that you're not against publicly organizing potion usage for the night phase, so it shouldn't be a problem if that's what you really want.

[Roden]

why havent you voted NM

I think I want to let Shiro catch up and give some takes first before I do anything else

[Roden]

Flea more narrates games than actively playing them

Ok maybe it isn't NM

[Roden]

Kinda getting flashbacks to when HEM caught me and T3 in my first newbie game

Regardless of if he's right or wrong, the vibes + tone feel really similar

[Roden]

no case. also fae doesn't believe there's enough time to build a wagon against me but votes me anyway. why not vote for n_m then? why did they not vote for you?

I had almost the exact same thought process as Flea here in a recent town game. So personally that's +town imo.

[Roden]

What about the VC implicates Flea as scum?

[Roden]

let's go for flea guys. if im right, ill be very graceful. if im wrong, ill shut up for the rest of the game.

Also what did you mean by this?

[Roden]

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-07 14:57:40)

Not as much time as I'd like, but enough for now.

Nevermind i initially thought this meant that flea wouldnt case me cause fae didnt need to and the time was almost up. I now read it as flea accepting the challenge of getting people to vote me.

So how does this affect your read on Flea

[Roden]

VOTE: HEM

[Roden]

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-07 14:57:40)

Not as much time as I'd like, but enough for now.

Nevermind i initially thought this meant that flea wouldnt case me cause fae didnt need to and the time was almost up. I now read it as flea accepting the challenge of getting people to vote me.

So how does this affect your read on Flea

[Roden]

ill wait for faer to push me and back it up

Are you saying you're uncertain now?

[Roden]

let's go for flea guys. if im right, ill be very graceful. if im wrong, ill shut up for the rest of the game.

Also what did you mean by this?

[Roden]

Solving

Can you answer please

[Roden]

So, the problem is that you're already wrong HEM. You seemed to be making your scum case on a couple posts and a VC that you misinterpreted. You were begging town to just trust you and follow you onto a Flea wagon using faulty information. And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

[Roden]

And before you say it, yes townies make mistakes, I know that. I fuck up a lot. So I am taking that into account.

[Roden]

okay so whats your point?

Why should town trust you?

roden are you scum

Yeah you said this last time you were scum when I was trying to reassess you too.

how do you read kitty?

Probably scum.

[Roden]

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

[Roden]

And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

so if i misread flea's post, how does that influence your probably scum read on kitty?

It doesn't. But I feel like you're lacking a certain self-awareness and pushing just to push. You made a goof but you aren't reassessing.

[Roden]

im not asking you to follow me. you have your own brain.

I'll vote you next day.

Yes please keep doubling down on trying to intimidate me. I'm sure using your scum test will convince me I'm wrong.

this is a shit push and you know it

"I have my own brain" but if I try to think for two seconds and see that your pushes are flawed as fuck then it's just a shit push

[Roden]

guys roden is basically trying to make the case that im make mistakes (even tho town makes mistakes, he's considering it!) and so i shouldn't be trusted and followed towards kittytacky's wagon, his probable scum. what a shit push. i dont see any point in this cause it didn't even sort me town or scum, just a discredit.

I'm asking why you think we should trust you when you tried to force a flawed elim through based on trusting you

you aren't reassessing

wat. that's literally what i did?

Where

roden, you're scum. you're getting my potions tonight.

K

[Roden]

I probably should've expected it though when HEM lashed out at me when I suspected him

Really? I thought that was instrumental in discouraging you from pursuing that train of thought...

Posting this since I brought it up and it's relevant

[Roden]

okay so it's flawed and i readjusted my approach, so how is that relevant to our gamestate?

Because you're making a lot of pushes, making and breaking mindmeld, and you've been very self-conscious of the fact that no one had seriously scum read you

And when someone does scum read you because you did something scummy, you just OMGUS me and use your past scum tells

This game state in general has felt iffy all Day though

are you intimidated roden

Not particularly

[Roden]

I'm asking why you think we should trust you when you tried to force a flawed elim through based on trusting you

it's not a "trust me bro" i laid out my case and asked people to engage me

i literally readjusted my stance on flea when i realized i was wrong on reading a post of hers and set on waiting for her to push me

and now you just raised this to raise doubt for the kittywagon — who you maintain is probable scum? damn roden

Well I did engage you on it. You still did ask us to just trust you in addition to your case. It's an AtE, just not over the top AtE.

It doesn't sound like you're readjusting your read if it's dependent on Flea pushing you or not. That sounds like "read me or die".

You can both be scum.

yeah but are you in my pocket?

or is it another one of your discredits?

roden you nasty

Is it a discredit if I'm questioning you and not STD for making the exact same read and push onto Kitty?

again what was the point of this? are you calling me scum or is this just a pointless discredit?

I'm calling you scum and doubling down.

[Roden]

you did something scummy

so is it scummy?

[Roden]

Thats kind of my point, it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum!HEM to just throw suspicion on random slots that aren't getting limmed a day before deadline

As town HEM could be hunting legitimately this way

I still think Kitty is lhf but it does concern me that he isn’t trying to re-evaluate you.

@Roden, why does Shiro posting or not posting make such a difference to you? I mean there’s a lot to get caught up on, so not really sure why you’re waiting on that.

Because I town read you, and I think it would be helpful to get some fresh takes from someone who shares a slot with you.

[Roden]

HEM, why exactly do you scum read me? And what did I say that made me jump up your scum list past Flea?

[Roden]

Also what happened to your STD read

[Roden]

if kitty flips scum, N_M and STD are locktowns for me.

Why?

okay you can continue to not like them because i dont really have much to say. each passing moment, our intuition is betrayed by our second-guessing and i want to hold on to the really strong stuff that i felt watching std waffle and be scummy.

std's flip will inform the std vs nancy situation and give us a better perspective on how everyone was positioned there. i mentioned that earlier i think. n_m is opaque and has targetted kitty after giving nancy shit the whole game.

What happened to this?

[Roden]

HEM, quote where I said you can't be trusted or that you're being fake

[Roden]

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

[Roden]

So, the problem is that you're already wrong HEM. You seemed to be making your scum case on a couple posts and a VC that you misinterpreted. You were begging town to just trust you and follow you onto a Flea wagon using faulty information. And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

okay so whats your point?

Why should town trust you?

roden are you scum

Yeah you said this last time you were scum when I was trying to reassess you too.

how do you read kitty?

Probably scum.

So, the problem is that you're already wrong HEM. You seemed to be making your scum case on a couple posts and a VC that you misinterpreted. You were begging town to just trust you and follow you onto a Flea wagon using faulty information. And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

are you not presenting me as untrustworthy and being fake? false bravado? "whoopsie tee hee"? it's dogwhistled all over these posts

I asked if you think it makes sense for people to trust you

If you could give a good reason for us to trust you then I don't see the issue

[Roden]

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

Who other than Enchant? Kitty? based on that post? Who else?

STD. He was aligned with STD to vote you out, then after I questioned and grilled STD he switching to scum reading him.

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

honestly what are these questions

What's the issue?

[Roden]

your 100% goal here is to discredit me and it's obviiouuuus~~~

Is it really that hard to come up with a good reason to trust you

[Roden]

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

Who other than Enchant? Kitty? based on that post? Who else?

STD. He was aligned with STD to vote you out, then after I questioned and grilled STD he switching to scum reading him.

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

honestly what are these questions

What's the issue?

Why do you sr Kitty and what are your reads on NM/Dwlee?

Kitty isn't really doing anything, and his last pop in lacked self-awareness last others commented. He's technically the only pusher left, he hasn't been particularly prolific at all.

NM is still where I last left him. If I'm wrong about a town read it's probably him.

Dwlee idk. They kinda fell off and feel uninvested after the push on you failed. Gun to head, probably unmotivated town.

[Roden]

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

You are stuck. You saw an opportunity when I messed up. Happens all the time to scum who lost momentum, and you've probably been itching to move somewhere else.

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

I don't think you were ever aiming to miselim me. You were trying to discredit me. I was pushing KittyTacky and all I could think of was 1.) you want me to look bad if kitty flips town 2.) you're partners with kitty and you want to undermine my push as silly.

Where was my momentum if you think I lost it?

Why do I only want you to look bad if Kitty flips town and not STD? If Kitty is my partner then why do I only shut you down and leave STD alone?

Is it really that hard to come up with a good reason to trust you

it's a setup and you know it.

what can i say? i'm town? duh. what can i say? i was genuine? duh. it's one of those questions that just sets up the person who would answer in a bad spot.

You could just bring up moments in the game that show your townieness and solving has been genuine, and quote posts where town agreed with you on certain points that are still relevant.

"If you don't think I'm trustworthy then we do we agree on xyz?" Something like that.

[Roden]

So you and HEM seem to be mindmelding on a lot, so I’m really confused.

Fair point, honestly.

exactly. why even bother to discredit like that when it's the same scumread

unless you felt pocketed, Roden?

What do you feel discredited about?

I don't feel pocketed, or at least not by you. You're kind of in the middle of a ven diagram of links between players, if that makes sense.

[Roden]

Where was my momentum if you think I lost it?

Std and nancy stopped being viable wagons and they're what you cited

Why do I only want you to look bad if Kitty flips town and not STD? If Kitty is my partner then why do I only shut you down and leave STD alone?

These aren't in my mind, tbt. But would it only be me who would look bad?

How do you read STD, anyway?

I never pushed Nancy and actively tried to stop her wagon. I slowed the momentum on STD myself. So I guess the accusation is that I purposely killed my own momentum...? Response to that is no I'm not game-throwing scum that's killing my own momentum in the game.

Who else looks bad if I'm discrediting you?

I've settled on town for STD because I don't think he's bold enough to fake feeling bad about making me feel bad. There are other reasons as well but that's the one that made me settle when assessing him.

[Roden]

I'm not game-throwing scum that's killing my own momentum in the game.

i kill my own momentum every time. that's how you get pocketz

Do you? You won the last two scum games I played with you by hard pushing mis-elims and tunneling Mala + Leaf/Gamma.

[Roden]

none of those pushes went through.

Gamma was the game-winning mis-elim.

[Roden]

Mala also wanted you dead.

it was a quickhammer

roden what is this

You said you kill your own momentum as scum. I don't really see it.

nah im back to feeling bad about roden

K

[Roden]

I'm literally reading the game right now

[Roden]

tell me empathically that im lying so i can boo yah you right now.

You're saying I killed momentum on Nancy and STD to pocket them and then up end up with nowhere to go, and that it isn't bad play because you have done so as scum. But you didn't kill momentum on Mala or Flavor/Leaf in 2271, you pushed them and made it clear you scum read them throughout the game.

[Roden]

what happened after koba asked us to chill? (flavor leaf) what happened that malakittens townread me?

aight this discussion is pointless. what does this prove about my alignment? what does this prove about your alignment?

You dipped out and I defended you + made an incorrect push on Italiano. Mala went back to scum reading you. You didn't stop scum reading either.

I mean it kinda looks like we're just fighting to be right at this point. I don't really care what it "proves" about our alignments, I just don't think that your accusation of "you stopped your own momentum and didn't know where to go" holds water. If you're town I think your scum read on me is just OMGUS, the same as it is for Flea. If you're scum you kinda have to counter push me with whatever you've got, because I'll likely death tunnel you for using tricks you've used in the past as scum.

[Roden]

Would the mod like a page top?

[Roden]

18 hours left. Can we consolidate somewhere?

After sleeping on it, I think I'd rather keep HEM around another day. He says he wants to push me tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to sort him better once he puts together a scum case on me. I also want to see if he'll put his money where his mouth is and actually throw Pain potions at me.

Currently down to go for either NM or Kitty, preferably Kitty though.

VOTE: Kitty

[Roden]

I'm unsure, this is bloody difficult one, but we are indeed running out of time
I think Nancy/Shiro could be town with Gamma and Flea

I also think there could potentially be a scum somewhere in HEM/Roden/STD

Do you wanna vote or are you afraid of committing too soon

[Roden]

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

Was I really that loud

[Roden]

Face you kinda need to do something besides acting bewildered and befuddled

I have no idea where to place you in this game, and hedging on where to vote isn't helping

It isn't like you didn't have an entire day phase to poke around and question people. Getting mad and overwhelmed about not knowing where to vote now just looks off.

[Roden]

Face you kinda need to do something besides acting bewildered and befuddled

I have no idea where to place you in this game, and hedging on where to vote isn't helping

It isn't like you didn't have an entire day phase to poke around and question people. Getting mad and overwhelmed about not knowing where to vote now just looks off.

Why?

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

@Roden, I don’t understand how you get “off” from this?

I don't think it's fair to come in at EoD and complain you don't know what to do if you didn't really do anything all Day in the first place

Everyone else actually has takes on the game

It's annoying if he's town and just an excuse if he's scum

[Roden]

i got convinced of facebones being bewildered constantly as a scumtell. then i realized it doesn't make sense, and saw that it was roden who floated that idea.

Are you referring to this?

I only played with Face once, it was in a Newbie and he was town. General lack of activity and presence matches up with what I remember of him. I don't have much of an opinion on him besides that.

[Roden]

It's annoying if he's town and just an excuse if he's scum

this is not actual scumhunting guys

Cool, I wasn't hunting. I told him to vote and stop hedging.

VOTE: Roden

Is Kitty town now?

[Roden]

Face you kinda need to do something besides acting bewildered and befuddled

I have no idea where to place you in this game, and hedging on where to vote isn't helping

It isn't like you didn't have an entire day phase to poke around and question people. Getting mad and overwhelmed about not knowing where to vote now just looks off.

Where does this say Face constantly being bewildered is a scum tell?

[Roden]

Roden has not been actually scumhunting. Just poking at annoying things that might annoy town and then using that to paint a scummy picture.

K

Yes I think Kitty could be town and sincere and just silly

So you once again wanted us to follow you on a wagon and just trust you on it before again changing your mind

Got it

[Roden]

HEM has scum read and backed off of scum reading four different slots now, with literally zero provocation from the slot he was scum reading

[Roden]

VOTE: HEM

[Roden]

So you once again wanted us to follow you on a wagon and just trust you on it before again changing your mind

Got it

this is a discredit. roden would actually try and understand if this is my town gameplay. he's using it so i'm treated as silly dumb dumb in this game.

Did you or did you not ask us to trust you on two different scum cases before backing off without them actually saying anything first

[Roden]

Face you kinda need to do something besides acting bewildered and befuddled

I have no idea where to place you in this game, and hedging on where to vote isn't helping

It isn't like you didn't have an entire day phase to poke around and question people. Getting mad and overwhelmed about not knowing where to vote now just looks off.

Why?

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

@Roden, I don’t understand how you get “off” from this?

I don't think it's fair to come in at EoD and complain you don't know what to do if you didn't really do anything all Day in the first place

Everyone else actually has takes on the game

It's annoying if he's town and just an excuse if he's scum

None of that makes him scum. Where is he “complaining”? All he said was for you not to “yell” at him? Not saying I agree with that but I don’t understand your harshness on his slot.

I didn't say he was scum, I said he looked off

He complained when he said this was difficult and that we're running out of time. I'm "harsh" because he isn't doing much and isn't voting.

[Roden]

he did this with me, facebones, and now as i see clearly, kitty.

Vague accusation but ok.

Roden is obvscum here guys see for yourself

So obvious that you didn't see it until the last 24 hours and scum read four other people instead

Next you'll say that you were wrong and I was just silly town whoever votes you next is the real obvscum

[Roden]

Quoting Face's posts isn't going to change my explanation

[Roden]

Who's the scum team, HEM?

[Roden]

Oh, damn I hope everything goes well

[Roden]

thanks scum

this is prolly my last post before Friday. L Roden

Classy

[Roden]

thanks scum

this is prolly my last post before Friday. L Roden

Classy

Actually I think HEM accidentally perspective slipped here lol

If he actually thought that he caught scum!me, he wouldn't expect to live to Day 2, he'd expect to be NK'd for being right.

[Roden]

Amazing elim everyone.

VOTE: HEM

[Roden]

HEM I thought you were going to kill me with Pain potions

What happened

[Roden]

HEM I thought you were going to kill me with Pain potions

What happened

@HEM did you claim this? @Roden can you link/quote the post, I’m too damned lazy.

roden, you're scum. you're getting my potions tonight.

[Roden]

That's actually my point though Dwlee. If HEM is town and is sure that I'm scum and sees that he doesn't have the votes to get me Day 1, why didn't he get someone to throw Pain potions at me with him? He made it clear multiple times that he wanted to organize how everyone used potions, but when given the chance to kill his top scum read by doing so, he does nothing. Not even a follow up today, just a blank vote.

Optimally, he should've had people use two Pain potions and see if I lived. If I did, then he would 100% know that I was scum and that I had my partners protect me. Scum wouldn't protect me if I'm town either since it wouldn't be worth it, all that would do is waste potions they need to use to protect themselves, and they need all the extra mis-kills on town that they can get.

Because of that, I don't think it's possible for HEM to be town and use a Pain potion on me. If that were true and we were TvT, the scum team would know that using a Pain potion on me would kill me and would've done so. If I'm scum and he's town, then he made an abysmal play by warning me that he was going to try to kill me. My partners would just protect me with a Doctor potion or block him with the Jail potion.

The only thing that makes sense is that he's scum and faked his potion threats, since it's better for scum!HEM to use a Day phase to try to mis-elim me and save his Pain potions for people he can't mis-elim.

[Roden]

i dont think i have pain potions because i asked the mod what potions i had and he only gave me that potion of harmography. so sorry i can't flip roden. let's just do that today.

Cool lies.

i implore people to start reconsidering their townread on Roden. what has he done that is so hard to fake? their whole beef with me is super fake imo.

Your only case against me is that I scum read you.

[Roden]

I didn't use any potions, I actually don't have any at all. I'm a bit annoyed that Facebones had three and did nothing all game. Except complain about me while he was getting flash elim'd by everyone else, I guess.

[Roden]

Can we not do this thing where HEM and I are unresolved until ELo please

[Roden]

HEM was obvscum yesterday and still is today. His AtE of "please be nice to me" is fake as hell because he's been anything but "nice" himself, let alone argue in good faith. He also admitted this his play this game is identical to his scum meta. I have no idea why he hasn't been voted out already.

[Roden]

Also I don't think scum!NM targets his death tunnel with Pain potions, he needs V&M around as his focus for Day phases. So I think NM is town if that's true.

[Roden]

I'm not game-throwing scum that's killing my own momentum in the game.

i kill my own momentum every time. that's how you get pocketz

I was actually thinking this. He admits he kills momentum on wagons on town as scum, and he's so far done this to five different players on Day 1 alone.

He wanted Nancy out, then he reversed.

He wanted Enchant out, then he reversed.

He wanted STD out, then he reversed.

He wanted Flea out, then he reversed.

He wanted Kitty out, then he reversed.

And every time he did push any of them, he acted like he was sure that they were scum.

[Roden]

I think HEM expects to die at some point, and wants to set up his buddies to make it further in the game and use their Pain potions. On a HEM red flip, I feel certain that the other two scum are whoever looks good after his flip.

That would also explain why there isn't much pressure on HEM despite his scumminess. Bussing him is a solid choice right now, but they can't make it look obvious.

[Roden]

Cool anti-spew HEM

[Roden]

HEM: "Nancy is obvtown and universally town read"

Also HEM: "I'm pretty sure I can flip Nancy"

[Roden]

I think HEM expects to die at some point, and wants to set up his buddies to make it further in the game and use their Pain potions. On a HEM red flip, I feel certain that the other two scum are whoever looks good after his flip.

That would also explain why there isn't much pressure on HEM despite his scumminess. Bussing him is a solid choice right now, but they can't make it look obvious.

Any idea who those are? Wrt to that list you posted, would scum!HEM ever do that to a buddy or are they all spewed town by that?

~M

I have an idea of who one of them is, but it isn't a solid theory.

HEM could scum read then reverse it for a buddy, but with how many there are I don't think there's anything AI without looking at his pushes in context and gaining more information from flips.

[Roden]

HEM if you're town this loss is legit your fault. You backed off of nearly every push, OMGUS'd everyone who even slightly suspected you, lied about your potions, and decided to death tunnel me Day 1 even after I tried to give you a chance to prove that you're town and work together to elim a common scum read.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Not with NM around

[Roden]

HEM, if you're town, instead of lashing out and complaining and calling every accusation against you a lie, maybe take a step back realize the game state doesn't make sense if you think the entire scum team is hard pushing you today. It especially doesn't make sense for me to unvote instead of just letting NM hammer you prematurely.

If you have several people all accusing you of the same thing maybe don't immediately assume the entire scum team is out to get you. Maybe you're just playing scummy as fuck and scum is capitalizing on it. Maybe scum sees you fighting whoever suspects you and wants to keep you around to self destruct and fight townies.

It should be crossing your mind that you're getting run up by people who aren't engaging with you. But it doesn't seem like something you're thinking about at all, so it only reinforces my belief that you're scum.

[Roden]

i've put worth reasons to scumread every slot and people see that as silly.

you, v&m, flea have done nothing to discredit me.

gg if that's your scum game. i absolutely salute you. but if town. heh.

on you. not me.

At least you got the bolded part right

[Roden]

VOTE: HEM

I tried

[Roden]

lol you and roden pushed me only after i did. get out of here with your revisionist bs.

Still lying huh

is anyone scumreading me?

Ngl, not really liking all of the "how does everyone feel about X" posts but then not having much to say yourself.

[Roden]

yeah but did you start pushing me? when did you vote me?

Before you pushed me but I guess that doesn't matter now

[Roden]

Big fucking yikes

[Roden]

I still feel pretty confident that Nancy/Johnny is town. Flea dying after hard defending the slot feels like it spews Nancy as town, and I think NM is still town for trying to Vig there. I'm honestly kind of surprised only one player died so far, it makes me think that scum is set up to win tonight.

[Roden]

STD before you vote: who do you townread most confidently

probably you

Why?

[Roden]

I'm wrong about someone but idk who

STD/Johnny/NM are my hard town reads, Gamma/Dwlee/Enchant/Kitty are my PoE. But STD and Gamma attacking each other and no one really reacting to it feels really off. Like, we're in MELO, STD is voting, and nobody cares. No one's agreeing that Gamma is scummy or freaking out about a scum quick hammer.

My thought process here is that if Gamma were scum, there would be actual push back. So maybe Gamma is town, and scum is waiting for STD to make another big push and for another townie to vote with him. Dwlee/Enchant/Kitty might be the solve then, but if Nancy/Johnny is right about Kitty being town then I'm wrong about one of my town reads.

I feel like Nancy spewed her slot as town, for multiple reasons. STD has felt genuine all game. So maybe I'm wrong on NM.

[Roden]

@Dwlee:

what were your actions the past two night phases?

[Roden]

I'm wrong about someone but idk who

STD/Johnny/NM are my hard town reads, Gamma/Dwlee/Enchant/Kitty are my PoE. But STD and Gamma attacking each other and no one really reacting to it feels really off. Like, we're in MELO, STD is voting, and nobody cares. No one's agreeing that Gamma is scummy or freaking out about a scum quick hammer.

My thought process here is that if Gamma were scum, there would be actual push back. So maybe Gamma is town, and scum is waiting for STD to make another big push and for another townie to vote with him. Dwlee/Enchant/Kitty might be the solve then, but if Nancy/Johnny is right about Kitty being town then I'm wrong about one of my town reads.

I feel like Nancy spewed her slot as town, for multiple reasons. STD has felt genuine all game. So maybe I'm wrong on NM.

To 2161: I was thinking kind of similar (at least the lack of initiative happening) but was saving to see if more stuff would happen. Basically, it feels like scum are taking no initiative here because they think they have a way to win by just waiting for town to screw up. I think STD is hard town right now, and I have no interest in voting him out. Johnny I can agree is townie from Nancy. NM I'm kind of reevaluating on the basis that scum seemingly think they have an easy mislim, which could just be me/kitty voting NM. Which would imply NM and Kitty are town. Which gives me a town of me/STD/Johnny/Kitty/NM and a scum team of Gamma/Enchant/Roden

Now if I'm right you're scum, so do you think my logic is bad and we are both town, or that my logic is right except I'm scum?

The only way we're both town is if if we're both dead wrong about our town reads.

I feel like Johnny is lock town. That's one slot I'm not going to be willing to change my mind about.

If we're both town, one of STD vs Gamma or Kitty vs NM has a serious chance to be scum theatre. STD vs Gamma is less likely for the reasons I've given.

Do you think Enchant is scummy or is he just PoE?

[Roden]

If we are both town can't it just be that Kitty or NM is scum but not both

Also I guess poe but he is also scummy

It's possible yeah. I just think one of the 1v1's could easily be theatre. Though Kitty vs NM just seems one-sided at this point.

Is anyone town reading Enchant?

[Roden]

Is anyone town reading Enchant?

i actually am

i thought his push on you D1 was limp and useless and if scum i don't know the point of that

i also like some of their mech related posts

but it's not a strong read

I agree about the push tbh.

I think maybe it's a good thing that none of my town reads + Dwlee can agree on a PoE here.

[Roden]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Just gotta take the leap I guess.

[Roden]

Well maybe I'm a tiny bit paranoid anyway. Roden you call NM a hard town read in 2161. You dialled that back by saying you might be wrong but why vote him here?

I am a tiny bit worried NM is the dedicated miselim for today but also he seems like he's openwolfing so maybe I should just ISO him and then report back.

I've been convinced that NM is town and been wrong and reevaluated in the past. Him vs Nancy slot felt very townie Day 1, but at this point he's gone completely flaccid. I took his Pain potion claim at face value Day 2 but tbh there's no actual proof that he actually did try to target Nancy N1. He doesn't care about anything going on now and isn't trying to solve or ask questions. I think if he's scum then he's trying to anti-spew since he's likely to flip today.

Other reason I'm voting him is that if he's town then scum almost always sets him up to be mis-elim'd and takes advantage of his quick hammers. I don't think any of that has happened here, people seem to be suspicious of him but there hasn't been a hard push there like there was against Gamma before you replaced in. Like, if I'm reading the game state right, he's probably the least controversial elim here, but there isn't much momentum.

Side note, and this is very angle-shooty, but I think Gamma spewed your slot as town. Plus I just agree with Johnny and like your posts so far.

[Roden]

Oh in case y'all haven't picked up on in NM hurt portioned kitty last night

I think I missed this, where was this said? It's not in NM's ISO.

NM prob not maf, what point in telling that you rolled pain potions twice.

VOTE: Roden

How do you know he rolled Pain potions twice? Where's the proof he targeted who he claims to have targeted?

[Roden]

It sounded like Johnny was claiming harmography potion unless I'm misunderstanding the mech of it

Oh, ok then Enchant TMI'd something from the scum PT, since NM never claimed to target anyone N2, but Enchant thought that he had. I can see Johnny is claiming a Harmography result after looking back through his posts, but Enchant doesn't seem to be talking about that.

A bunch of pre-flip info but: on NM red flip, Kitty is conftown and Enchant is...maybe not confscum but really close to it. You and Johnny are really townie, and I think Dwlee is also town in that scenario since they argued against my theory that Kitty vs NM could be SvS, and that just seems like an anti-scum/anti-opportunistic take to have.

But that just leaves STD as the last scum and I don't think it's him...

[Roden]

I mean I guess it could just be weird wording since Johnny's reveal came before Enchant's post.

It's a bit of evidence towards nm/Enchant though.

Yeah, that's why I don't think it's 100% certain that it's a slip, it could just be weird wording.

Is there a reason you really townread STD? I disliked his d2

I mean you did say he felt really genuine earlier but that's not something I can engage with since I don't see it personally

Also fmpov he's been pushing a townslot in Melo and I think if he were town mafia would use that to push against me more than they have been doing

His Day 1 play just felt agenda-less to me. He did a heavy amount of AtE when it wasn't really necessary that could've easily gotten him voted out. He also did this weird emotional manipulation with me that also felt unnecessary if he were scum.

if we're just claiming

i JK'd kitty last night

Depending on his claimed action N2, his N1 action seems townie.

Kitty. I claimed to JK him so he could literally claim any potion action if he believed me

True but I’ve already said I tr him, so why pocket me?

So what is your take re: HEM/Roden? Still think TYT?

Yes

This also seems townie + he didn't push me after the HEM green flip, so it's consistent with what he'd said.

[Roden]

Oh in case y'all haven't picked up on in NM hurt portioned kitty last night

I think I missed this, where was this said? It's not in NM's ISO.

NM prob not maf, what point in telling that you rolled pain potions twice.

VOTE: Roden

How do you know he rolled Pain potions twice? Where's the proof he targeted who he claims to have targeted?

Roden trying to play dumbass to prove point which can't work.

Mafia more likely to claim they rolled 0, or atleast 1 pains, considering mafia have more rolling chance for pain.

If NM is town and using two Pain potions then wtf are scum doing? Only Flea died so far.

Also it isn't AI to claim to have more than one Pain potion. Facebones was town and died with two Pain potions.

Do you think Kitty is scum?

[Roden]

Oh in case y'all haven't picked up on in NM hurt portioned kitty last night

I think I missed this, where was this said? It's not in NM's ISO.

NM prob not maf, what point in telling that you rolled pain potions twice.

VOTE: Roden

How do you know he rolled Pain potions twice? Where's the proof he targeted who he claims to have targeted?

Roden trying to play dumbass to prove point which can't work.

Mafia more likely to claim they rolled 0, or atleast 1 pains, considering mafia have more rolling chance for pain.

If NM is town and using two Pain potions then wtf are scum doing? Only Flea died so far.

NM was Jailkept n1 by Johnny, not surprised.

More over, NM!Maf have no point in just claiming to throwing pain at Kitty, if Johhnny is town he can just legitimelly continue to tunnel and throw all pains at him without becoming suspicious. I know more about NM logic than whole game combined.

Team is You+Kitty+Third.
Kitty was wounded by Pain, we will kill him at night.

That doesn't answer the question, and you cut the rest of my post out...

[Roden]

If NM think Kitty is scum then why isn't he pushing Kitty?

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

So with no one quick hammering and NM not posting, I think we can confidently say he's scum here. With that in mind, we should plan out our actions tonight. If we have any Jailkeeper potions left, Enchant should be targeted, and if we have any spares then we should target Dwlee and STD as well. If we don't have enough for that then if we have any Harmography Potions, then we should try to organize using those tonight instead.

PE: Oh. Well uh there goes that. Either way, Johnny claimed NM hurt Kitty, so that should've been something he hard CC'd the moment Johnny said that if NM actually JK'd Kitty.

[Roden]

Enchant should still be JK'd, Harmography on Kitty/Toad/Johnny if possible.

[Roden]

Oof, I suspected Enchant early on but kept going after everyone else...my bad...I really wish I just switched over to him when he pretended to scum claim, NM would've been proven town if Kitty flipped from Pain potions

God I had so much of this backwards this game

GG and thanks for modding