Micro 1062 | Divide and Conquer | Postgame

[fferyllt]

Greetings, Gentlebeings!

Catching up!

[fferyllt]

Happy Scumday Ceph!

Have I told you the diffusion game scarred me for life?

[fferyllt]

My first scalding hot take is that Radja would not have divided the hoods like this and is therefore town

I feel like this is the work of someone up on site culture

I like this thought.

I've been away from mafia for several months. I'm not sure I grok the current site culture well enough to see how it impacted hood formation. I hope you have more thoughts on hood formation further into the thread! If not, I'll probably ask you a few questions.

I have two scumleans who are from different hoods, so I'm going to declare the game solve is Dannflor/Somnus.

Somnus just feels performative. 22 doesn't add anything to the discussion. 18 is way longer than it needs to be. And the last line of 29 feels designed to make it known that he's definitely thinking and solving the game.

As for Dannflor, the timing of posts 15 and 21 is weird. I feel like, Dannflor as town would likely post these two posts at the same time. Either at the time of 15, when he allegedly gave up on being secretive about his thoughts on the hoods; or at 21, when he started outing reads. Considering they were separate (and assuming Dannflor was already thinking the thoughts in 21 at the time he posted 15), I'm guessing he's scum who wanted his posting to match the pacing of the thread, and didn't want to start promoting a solving atmosphere. And after Cephrir started outing takes on people being town, Dannflor wanted to match it himself.

As for townleans - Isis is townie for 23, Pooky is townie because my gut says so.

I like this. It's a good chunk of analysis for so early in the game. The lack of RVS is probs a factor. note to self: potential meta homework.

Cakez' 36 is hmm. 38 is more aligned with my reactions to page 1-2.

Also! I'm looking forward to playing with you again, Dann! Especially in a slot that didn't self-destruct before you inherited it!

45 explains Ceph's hood theory wrt to Radja. I grudgingly like it.

i'm harmless!

~snort~

My first scalding hot take is that Radja would not have divided the hoods like this and is therefore town

I feel like this is the work of someone up on site culture

Can you elaborate on this? Why wouldnt I divide it like this?
I was thinking I would lock you as town if we were in different neighbourhoods, but that didn't happen.

Also hi Cakez, I remember you too!

to my mind, the small hood contains 3 small name players (because i have not heard of them) while the large hood contains all of the big players. i feel like you wouldn't have done that to yourself - it's too likely the players who play often will be able to find each other as town if they were all town. i think the large hood scum decided to carry the game, i think they are likely a veteran planning to blend in with a crowd they know well, i think because they are a veteran they most likely called the shot on how to divide the hoods, and the presence of strong players in their hood will also explain why they don't die at night.

granted this is partly stemming from my belief that eliming in the small hood was clearly optimal which i'm not so sure about anymore

Interesting, I noted something similar within the small hood. Me and Scared Bear, who are the only players on this list who could be either new or alts, are in the small hood, with Somnus. I was maybe more confident in Somnus being scum than I really should've been, as I don't think it's outright

damning

for him, but it does feel like it should be interesting.

However, your thoughts on the hood distribution do feel more coherent than mine. I can buy it. And I feel like it's a towny thought process from Cephrir.

More good thoughts. Though, with Ceph, I'm more curious to see the presence and tenor of woe-is-me, or lack thereof.

i had some of these thoughts pregame and others during it

i dont really have a lot of reads yet. i'm reading lucian's personality as stilted but i don't have a problem with it at this time. isis might be a town lean i guess

hmm

fwiw i think dann is mostly right here except i probably would not be eager to make myself the center of attention immediately given recent history

Which game(s) are in the recent history bucket?

@Isis

, bottom of page 3 reads like your twitter thread. This is more whimsical than I recall you being, but that was long ago and far away.

@SCRRRD

, have you played with Isis before?

Isis's 90 thinking what i'm thinking when I'm thinking it. I've been assuming Lucian is newish to MS, though probs not new to mafia. I've kinda pivoted after scanning how many games he's played. Could be new to MS. game history suggests possibly alt. I wonder if more newbies are avoiding the newbie game queue altogether these days.

the isis scum read feels kinda easy

like yes i think that post is surface level scummy in that is it mech talk and not really unique mech talk

but the first line makes it feel more like isis is town who really wants to interact with the thread but doesn't have much to share yet. idk like maybe scum!isis would feel compelled to post and make a bad post but i feel like she'd rather wait until she had something good to post or just pick at something that looks more contenty

maybe I'm giving her too much credit here but especially since she follows it up with #39 and #42 not long after it does feel genuine in the sense that she just has no thoughts *yet* but wants to interact anyway

BE ALERT, DON'T GET HURT

I BELIEVE LUCIAN AND I WERE SIDELINED IN ORDER TO INCREASE THE STATUS QUO BIAS IN THE BIG HOOD

I BELIEVE ISIS HAS THE MOST TO BENEFIT FROM THE STATUS QUO BIAS

ANYWAY, MY HOOD SOLUTION IS EASY VOTE: SOMNUS

Hmm

I BELIEVE LUCIAN AND I WERE SIDELINED IN ORDER TO INCREASE THE STATUS QUO BIAS IN THE BIG HOOD

I BELIEVE ISIS HAS THE MOST TO BENEFIT FROM THE STATUS QUO BIAS

I feel dumb and don't really understand what this means, can you explain more

UNLESS YOU ARE SCUM WHITE KNIGHTING ISIS, YOU ARE DEFENDING THEM RIGHT NOW FOR BAD REASONS, AKA POCKETED, AKA STATUS QUO BIAS. YOU DON'T WANT TO ATTACK ISIS BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINST THE STATUS QUO.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE REST OF THE HOOD:

POOKY AND CAKE DON'T EXPECT EACH OTHER TO DEFEND THEM

CEPHRIR HAS EASIER TIME POCKETING PLAYERS WHO ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH THEIR SCUM GAME

IN FACT, ALL THREE OF CEPHRIR, POOKY AND CAKE DO BETTER IN A LITTLE HOOD THAN A BIG HOOD.

IDK WHO THE OTHER ONE IS, RADJI? THEY SEEM TIMID. THEY PUT THEMSELVES IN THERE BY MISTAKE MAYBE AS MY 2ND GUESS.

MY FIRST GUESS THOUGH, ISIS, THEY PUT THEMSELF IN BIG HOOD BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKELY TO WORK OUT FOR THEM.

I'm getting a sense that SCRRRD believes what he's posting, but I seriously disagree that Pooky or Ceph would be hampered in a large neighborhood. Cakez? maybe. I think scum-Cakez would prefer the larger hood for more opportunity to blend in.

How were you and Lucian sidelined?

BABY HOOD

Why is the baby hood a sideline?

VOTE: Somnus


BEAR POWA

VOTE: Somnus


BEAR POWA

Based on fossil evidence from Russia and Bulgaria, the first known members of the family Procyonidae lived in Europe in the late Oligocene about 25 million years ago. Similar tooth and skull structures suggest procyonids and weasels share a common ancestor, but molecular analysis indicates a closer relationship between raccoons and bears.

There can't be two scum in that hood~

side note: I once ran into a raccoon in my garage. He was trying to open the freezer, and he looked big enough to carry that freezer on his back.

Somnus, do you have any reads at all?
Like, if it's not you, it HAS to be either Lucian or ScaredBear. Who are you looking at here?

I'm not convinced lynching in the small hood is a good play here, so I would love to see you put in some effort here and produce some reads.

I like this post. I'm now up to two townreads. I feel more strongly about this one.

[fferyllt]

unvote:

Somnus's vote is where mine would probably be if I'd been here from the start and was feeling vote-y, though.

[fferyllt]

I like this post. I'm now up to two townreads. I feel more strongly about this one.

Does this mean you townread Radja? If so - why?

I do.

My one niggle is that I'm not seeing Radja under pressure here so far, and that's usually when I get strong townfeels from him. This is a strong entrance for him, and I like where his head is at.

[fferyllt]

unvote:

Somnus's vote is where mine would probably be if I'd been here from the start and was feeling vote-y, though.

how does this square with the sense that SCRRRD believes what he's posting

It's a combo of things. Seeing SCRRRD come up with an early teamsolve with so little data is troubling. And, Lucien is coming off far more town than SCRRRD so far.

I'm a little at sea simply due to the possibility of alts. Neither are playing like newish mafia players.

[fferyllt]

My first scalding hot take is that Radja would not have divided the hoods like this and is therefore town

I feel like this is the work of someone up on site culture

Can you elaborate on this? Why wouldnt I divide it like this?
I was thinking I would lock you as town if we were in different neighbourhoods, but that didn't happen.

Also hi Cakez, I remember you too!

to my mind, the small hood contains 3 small name players (because i have not heard of them) while the large hood contains all of the big players. i feel like you wouldn't have done that to yourself - it's too likely the players who play often will be able to find each other as town if they were all town. i think the large hood scum decided to carry the game, i think they are likely a veteran planning to blend in with a crowd they know well, i think because they are a veteran they most likely called the shot on how to divide the hoods, and the presence of strong players in their hood will also explain why they don't die at night.

granted this is partly stemming from my belief that eliming in the small hood was clearly optimal which i'm not so sure about anymore

To be fair, I pretty much only now you and Cakez. So I have no clue who the "small name players" are.
I suppose that matches into your "veteran player wants to carry the game" strategy though?
I was hoping I'd get some idea about your allegiance here, but nothing really points me in any direction.

I hope I can keep up with the pace of this game. I don't really like reading up too much.

Just supports my point really!

I'm a difficult read. Give it time.

This post.

On the one hand, "I'm a difficult read. Give it time" is the opposite of woe-is-me, and I'm pretty sure I'd break out in flaming hives if that's how ceph had responded.

On the other hand, Lucien's gravitas and threat if town is an unknown, I think, so that probably decreases the need/importance for woe-is-me.

On the gripping hand, Ceph hasn't encountered any real headwinds to this point. Maybe I'm using the wrong lens.

Dannflor's 163 Cakez vote raised my eyebrow enough that I switched to ISO mode to see an explanation. I'll save 190 thoughts for when I get there chronologically.

I don't like SCRRRD's 165. Binary take in a shades of grey world. Though I guess it could be confbias if he's town, given his approach looks like team-hunting and he's proceeding from a solve that assumes either Radja or Isis are scum. Very big if, though.

Dannflor is nakedvoting at a good moment for nakedvoting

VOTE: SirCakez

I laughed.

i want to townread Radja because they're another 2015 person <3
i'm playing like a shitter

2013

I DISAGREE WITH MY EARLIER READ ON ISIS. I THINK THEY MIGHT BE TOWN NOW. 179 FOR EXAMPLE. GOOD LOOK FOR THEM AND CAKEZ.

CEPHRIR AND DANNFLOR SEEM OKAY. I CAN'T REMEMBER ANY OF DANNFLOR'S POSTS. MAYBE DANNFLOR IS A LITTLE MORE SUS THAN CEPHRIR FOR THAT REASON ALONE.

RADJA CAN BE SCUM. ISIS SAID HE SEEMS CALM AND MY IMPRESSION WAS THAT THEY SEEM TIMID. WEIRD

POOKY MAYBE TRYING TO BUS SOMNUS AND POCKET ME. 130 EXAMPLE OF BUSSING AND POCKETING

IN SUMMARY, IT'S WORTH WATCHING DANNFLOR AND POOKY VERY CLOSELY, AND MY DUMB EARLY SOLVE IS SOMNUS + RADJA

I AM STILL UNOPPOSED TO EXECUTING SOMNUS D1, IN FACT I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE IT

I don't hate this post. My thoughts on Pooky's vote & interaction are very much colored by my role PM. Pocketing is a strong maybe, but I can see him getting into bear powah regardless of alignment.

I don't agree with the Radja read.

Re 190 now,

@Dann

have you played with scum-Pooky? He didn't start out as a ball of fire in the games I've played with scum-him. Or in the games I modded where he was scum.

(current tin foil is BEAR/ISIS, where BEAR came into the game, decided Somnus was a likely early elimination and that he would be locked as scum over Lucian, and so decided to start mystifying interactions with buddy)

but probably Isis is town probably

Hmm.

I wish that vote were not against me so I could see if I still hate it without the fog of omgus

I feel a case of hives coming on.

does it help you guys if I do it in not stream of consciousness format because it looks pretty clear in my head

[lucian, isis]
[pooky, Radja]
-----
[scrrrrdbear]
[somnus]
[cephrir, sircakez]

although I think I like Cephrir's reaction and recent posts a lot

but I think I need to leave the thread and come back to get a better view

THIS JUST LOOKS LIKE CAUGHT FLAIL TO ME

ALSO, WHY GROUP BOTH HOODS TOGETHER INSTEAD OF MAKING TWO SEPARATE POES?

The bolded bugs me.

Spoiler: Lucian

Spoiler: Isis

Spoiler: SirCakez

Spoiler: DannFlor

Spoiler: Cephrir

Spoiler: Somnus

Spoiler: SBEAR

Spoiler: Radja

loled.

Who were you scumreading at this point?

[fferyllt]

who is scrrrdbear's partner, ffery

Dunno yet. I'm on page 10.

I'll probably get through a few more pages before I have to afk for a bit.

I should be caught up in a couple more hours once I'm back.

[fferyllt]

if someone e-1s me and fferylit quickhammers. kill them both d2/3 no excuses

VOTE: ffery

I would never!

[fferyllt]

fferylt reads Isis twitter??????!???

Once in a while!

[fferyllt]

srsly: we've got almost 3 days. Let me me marinate in day 1 and get some well formed thoughts into the game.

[fferyllt]

@Dann have you played with scum-Pooky? He didn't start out as a ball of fire in the games I've played with scum-him. Or in the games I modded where he was scum.

I don't think so

I vaguely remember he won like don corleone at one point tho?

or did i make that up

He did. 2021. And maybe in the beforetimes, but I wasn't around then. My experiential meta of him is that he powerwolfs in small sections of games, and not from the get-go.

[fferyllt]

The fact that 574 does not include anything about me, but does include multiple points against BEAR, makes me wonder if fferyllt has already decided which one of us she's going to push.

@Cephrir, you've played with her before? How good of a scum player is she?

Your posts in that section of the game didn't stand out to me in comparision to the first 6 pages. And they didn't move my nascent read around. The main thing that makes me cautious about punching a day 3 ticket for you is that you could be a mafia veteran rather than a "gifted" newbie. You kind of remind me of my first game with Lukewarm, and I want to keep that in mind.

[fferyllt]

The fact that 574 does not include anything about me, but does include multiple points against BEAR, makes me wonder if fferyllt has already decided which one of us she's going to push.

@Cephrir, you've played with her before? How good of a scum player is she?

best scum player on the site

she gets her power from sacrificing small woodland animals

Not this shit again. :/

[fferyllt]

The fact that 574 does not include anything about me, but does include multiple points against BEAR, makes me wonder if fferyllt has already decided which one of us she's going to push.

@Cephrir, you've played with her before? How good of a scum player is she?

I think I have only ever seen her as town. I have read at least one scum game and found it quite impressive though.

Do you recall which game? I have a personal favorite, but it's from years of yore.

[fferyllt]

could the SCRRDBEAR all caps posting style be a smokescreen for scum?

I don't like this.

VOTE: radja

I don't like this, either. reading further it's for 244. I dunno. the only actual scumreadish vibe i got from pooky's post was the radja gif. Hence my asking what his reads actually were at that point.

Dann in 264 this is another reverse trajectory. I don't remember if this was a feature in the first game I played with him. Homework assignment.

my head hasn't quite gotten into this game and that's unfortunate but a real thought i do have is that somnus is just scum giving up

I have the advantage of knowing his alignment, but this is counter to my impression of his scum game.

TBH I don't really have any good reason to scumread anyone in the big hood, so Pooky's lack of content is just what I'm going with for now.
I really don't see why people are giving him a pass here.

Second guess would probably be Cephrir? I think he might have attempted to pocket me immediately by townreading me. But maybe I'm just overthinking it.

Other than that, idk. If I end up getting eliminated, that's still a better choice than Somnus.

If ceph's townread concerned you here, I have bad news.

I like Lucien's 315 a lot. Knowing my propensities, as an OG player I would probably have started the game wanting to form reads without much regard to the neighborhoods.

Just going to note that reading all the predecessor universal scum read stuff is tilty. Some of these reads are honest, though.

[fferyllt]

this development makes me nervous

while cakez hasn't been impressive he gets eliminated a fair amount in general and is up against a lot of charisma. securing a big hood elim while it's still gettable is like, an absolute necessity for any somnus partner who might exist

don't particularly like that somnus' vote is camped out there either

Stuff doesn't hit the same way reading in catch up mode. I agree with your first sentence. I don't like the way you kinda deflated the pressure cakez might otherwise have felt.

But my argument doesn't have to be specific for this setup - SirCakez is lazily voting a universal scumread, without trying to sort around them and without giving thought to who is scum with them.

This is such bullshit are you actually scum

ugh.

Spoiler: Dann's 382 wall

You've been voting him for almost 10 pages. I don't approve of your strategy; but there's consistency there, it feels like something you actually believe in. While SirCakez suddenly decided that we gotta eliminate Somnus, and not only that, he also made sure that we all know he does not townread Somnus at all! Even though the only reason he had for townreading him was an associate read with you, which ended up being made from incorrect logic anyway! And he's not trying to understand my argument, he's just shading me and dismissing it! I don't like it!

Another reason why it rubbed me the wrong way is that SirCakez has been sorting within the big hood, and people were in the middle of running up Radja (who is in the big hood), and

that

is where SirCakez decides to start voting Somnus? Town knows that we need to catch the big-hood-scum to win. So the timing of voting for Somnus JUST AS people are actually voting someone up to sort them is...? I just don't get it from a town perspective.

There's only 1 scum in the big hood. So Cakez going for Somnus at the moment I was getting votes might not be the best play, but there's 0% we're scum together so I don't see why he's getting heat for it?

Thinking about it more I really think Cakez is town.

Okay, I lied, I have some thoughts

I feel like Somnus isn’t scum despite having zero logical or non-vibes based feelings to back that up. But I’ll try to explain how I feel about the current game-state regardless. I’ve been doing some rereading and it’s only be fueling my current idea of the game so hopefully someone can tell me which parts of this have merit and which are just conf-bias.

What I'm mostly worried about is being wrong here, Somnus flipping town and us having pretty much nothing to work with, aside from the 50/50 odds. Which pretty much forces us to look at the small hood AGAIN on day 2.

I don’t think this is a town thought. I don’t think any townie would believe that Somnus flipping town gives us nothing to work with. Especially because Lucian is so eye-blindingly obvious town in this game. I don’t think anyone has not town read Lucian at this point?

A Somnus town flip would break the game wide open and this post seems like a fake fear designed to look pro-town. If my current theory about the game is correct then this also fits because I don’t think scum want to flip Somnus right now. If Somnus is town, flipping them puts extreme pressure on a mafia member who is otherwise exerting a lot of thread presence.

If I’m wrong and Somnus is scum, I would expect Somnus’ partner to be ready and willing to bus them. I would honestly probably clear Radja in this scenario.

All that being said, if Somnus is town, I think scum in the big hood always has to be ready to turn and believably bus their buddy due to the inevitability of the Somnus flip and the nature of the setup.

Small Hood: ScaredBear an Lucian are probably town?
Unless:
- Scared Bear is mafia
- wants to make sure we vote in the small hood for the mafia in big hood to have better odds later
- will probably get voted out on day 2 if Somnus happens to be town? But that leaves the big hood wide open, which might be a good call for them.

Or I'm wrong about Lucian..

Big Hood: not a clue tbh

I guess I could vote Somnus, but I'm not convinced eliminating from the small hood is a good idea.

That’s why I find this hedging to be especially scummy if my scrrredbear!scum and Somnus!town theory is correct. Look at all the words Radja devotes to the possibility that BEAR might be scum. It reads partnery to me.

I am also unclear how Radja progressed from thinking eliminating in the small hood was good, to thinking eliminating in the big hood was more rewarding, to thinking eliminating in the small hood is actively bad.

=================

As far as BEAR goes, I don’t think the way he’s approached me has been in good faith. It’s a little hard for me to be objective about, but the way he jumped on my earlier wall post is very reminiscent of the types of votes I tend to make as scum when I perceive a townie making a “bad” post. There was a lack of any sort of real engagement or follow up with my post, even in a confrontational manner. Compare to Lucian and Cephrir, who had similarly negative reactions but also seemed genuinely curious and tried to understand me.

I think his most recent post assuming that the contradictions in my most recent posts are some sort of scummy mistake rather than me just having thoughts I’m keeping to myself or changing my mind on certain things is another example of BEAR not seeming to be actually curious about my alignment.

I still think the way he brushed off his Isis progression as just being, her posts got better, a little intentionally obtuse when he told me I was under thinking his original reasoning.

I also think BEAR seems to have a vested interest in not letting a Somnus wagon build up too much momentum because I don’t think BEAR believes anyone ever townreads him more than Lucian. Yes, I know BEAR already voted Somnus, but I don’t think the timing or context of that vote matches a real motivation to kill Somnus.

I’m worried BEAR is using the hood to pocket Lucian right now uncontested by Somnus. I honestly think that’s the only reason to use the small hood with scum still potentially in it. You are *only* hiding information from potential townies.

==============

I think Cakez is not as scummy as Radja now. I don’t know his meta but it sounds like this type of posting is not unusual. I don’t like that he seemed to be self aware that his posts were bad but ehhhh, I feel like I don’t have as much good reason to scum read him. I think Cakez not wanting to talk to Lucian, the most town read person in the game is +++++++town

Cephrir I just flat out town read now. Honestly, Cephrir scum read was born out of a desire to find the deep wolf. I think this was silly now.

Pooky has a cool guy persona to maintain and would never admit to trying at mafia, but I still maintain he’d be trying harder or at least have a higher presence here as scum

Overall, I don’t like how Radja has avoided voting me and also Cakez. Pooky is the safest scum read you can have right now besides Somnus. It reads like he doesn’t want to get his hands dirty.

Big Hood: Isis > Cephrir > Pooky > Cakez >>> Radja

Small Hood: Lucian >>> Somnus > BEAR

I would like to eliminate in [Radja, Somnus, BEAR]. I realize Somnus is probably much more palatable to people then BEAR, so I’m happy to elim there because I think it resolves the neighborhood either way. I also think Somnus being scum kinda clears Radja.

I think Radja/BEAR is the current team but the path of least resistance to getting that team might just be Somnus right now. Happy with any of the three wagons though

There's a lot of content to this post and I'm probably going to come back to it a few times. My initial question revolves here "All that being said, if Somnus is town, I think scum in the big hood always has to be ready to turn and believably bus their buddy due to the inevitability of the Somnus flip and the nature of the setup."

Who in the big hood do you see positioning in this manner?

----------------------

Apropos of nothing, the speculation about who my hypothetical scumpartner might be is brain cell taxing and probably affecting the way I'm absorbing the game.

[fferyllt]

The fact that 574 does not include anything about me, but does include multiple points against BEAR, makes me wonder if fferyllt has already decided which one of us she's going to push.

@Cephrir, you've played with her before? How good of a scum player is she?

I think I have only ever seen her as town. I have read at least one scum game and found it quite impressive though.

Do you recall which game? I have a personal favorite, but it's from years of yore.

It's that really townsided one, I think syr was a teammate?

2181. My main memory of that time was not being able to stay awake more than 3-4 hours at a time. I was motivated by being scum against Cabd in that game. It was a slog, though.

My own favorite scum game was in 2014. It involved winning against Cabd, nacho & zmuffin. I brought nacho and zmuffin to mylo.

[fferyllt]

"All that being said, if Somnus is town, I think scum in the big hood always has to be ready to turn and believably bus their buddy due to the inevitability of the Somnus flip and the nature of the setup."

Who in the big hood do you see positioning in this manner?

I believed it to be Radja

I think I elaborated on this in the post

Yeah. I probably should shut up and just read the game, but the thought in more generic terms interests me. I'm townreading Radja to this point, so I'm curious if this filter on big hood players had/has other positives in your opinion.

[fferyllt]

I'll be back in a few hours.

[fferyllt]

I think you're trying really hard to find a scumread on me.

After our last 2 games, the bar is high. Before that, maybe I'd have settled on "good enough for day 1".

This game? It looks like the tail end of Day 1 may be my one and only. I doubt I'll head to the dead thread with a strong town read of you from what I've seen so far.

[fferyllt]

Sure, it could be that. It could also be that you think that's the most likely way for you to get out of this. c:

1. I'm not trying to get out of this. I want town to be in decent shape tomorrow, and I wouldn't mind bragging rights if I manage a good solve.

2. Why would I think that?

[fferyllt]

Not hammering

im lowkey kind of disappointed isis isnt pushing me harder and just nailing me to the wall because theres nobody i enjoy dancing with more

where are you isis?

hmm

[fferyllt]

I'd rather y'all not hammer until I'm caught up.

[fferyllt]

Sure, it could be that. It could also be that you think that's the most likely way for you to get out of this. c:

1. I'm not trying to get out of this. I want town to be in decent shape tomorrow, and I wouldn't mind bragging rights if I manage a good solve.

2. Why would I think that?

Hipster reads get townread!

sadly I'm not and never have been a hipster.

[fferyllt]

why'd you unvote, pooky

cuz somnus wasnt giving us anything and we got a replacement that was actually posting so if i unvote she would keep posting and giving us more information to work off of.

This is not how I play as any alignment.

You should know that.

[fferyllt]

My eyes have seen all the words at least once. I'm gonna need to reread some parts.

SCRRR got better between page 16 and 21.

I feel like I need to reread Radja but I doubt it will change my mind. The amount of suspicion on Radja feels off.

I'll probably be back in a couple hours.

[fferyllt]

I READ OUR BABY HOOD AND FFERYLLT SCUM TOLD IN IT.

No I didn't.

I posted in 639 that I would be away a few hours, and then did a quick read of the small hood and made a couple content free posts just to indicate I've now read that thread too. I came back to find that you yelled at me for quoting Lucien's reads list but not asking questions about it. I won't have questions until I go back through Lucien's posts in this thread. And if it makes sense to do it this way, I'll ask those questions here, not in that thread.

I don't plan to do a lot of posting in the hood. I would rather the three of our interactions be here in this thread where the whole player list can consider them.

That's my approach. One of us is for sure scum. With that certainty. I want our interactions visible to everyone.

And your posts here are a perfect example of why.

As far as calm? I've had a 7-8 month break from mafia. It'll probably be a game or two before I lose my temper or otherwise lack calm.

[fferyllt]

SCRRR got better between page 16 and 21

WHICH POSTS

SCRRR got better between page 16 and 21

WHICH POSTS

AND WHY?

My sense that you got better is mostly regarding your Dann read.

On page 16, you were still hammering on Dann, and you kinda crescendoed over the next 2-3 pages On 16 you threw a vote down on him in 380 in the middle of a huge wall about how scummy he was. in 400 you posted that attack bear gif at him, speaking of menacing.

461 you're still attacking him.

In 508 Dann responded to your 380 case. In reread I see that he said he wasn't scumreading any more in that post. And then in your next post you said you weren't scumreading him. Which was actually on page 21, not 20. I knew it happened before I replaced in but thought it was 20-30 posts earlier.
So now, I'm wondering to extent Dann scumreading you played into the strength of your scumread on him.

AND WHY ARE YOU PRETENDING TO BE SO CALM? IT'S MENACING.

And why do you call my mood in this game pretending to be calm. What's menacing about it.

This feels like well-poisoning.

IF YOU HAVEN'T POSTED READS ON EVERY PLAYER WITH WORDS EXPLAINING WHY THEN I WANT YOU TO DO THAT AT YOUR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE

Probably not doing that tonight.

xfinity died while I was putting this post together. It's up and down now. I'm taking that as a suggestion from the universe that I go to sleep.

[fferyllt]

I came back to find that you yelled at me for quoting Lucien's reads list but not asking questions about it. I won't have questions until I go back through Lucien's posts in this thread.

Sure, if we want to have that stuff in public, I'm fine asking here too - why was that post you quoted interesting to you?

(Also, that's not my name.)

The part about alts was interesting. How to read you and SCRRRD given your join dates was something I kept coming back to. You had phrased something similar in the game thread, but the implication of your post in the hood was a little more emphatic. Reading it again this morning, the difference in phrasing is not as pronounced as I was thinking yesterday.

[fferyllt]

Like: even *she* apparently does not think scard bear or Lucian are scum.

This is not true. The ~better~ I thought I was seeing in SCRRRD's posts yesterday (which was making me nervous despite townreading Lucian), on reread look more agenda-y than I thought reading the thread chronologically. Might be a me thing, but I didn't catch that SCRRRD's read of Dann went from 5 alarm scum to town right after Dann said his scumread of SCRRRD was gone.

Reread my reply to SCRRRD. As well as the above, I really don't like how he mischaracterized my posting in the hood thread.

[fferyllt]

I guess it could be bear... Idk I just haven't seen enough to make me want to ignore somnus.

Hope that hedge you're sitting on isn't thorny.

[fferyllt]

Ffffeerrrryyyy

?

[fferyllt]

Big Pool:
Lucian: This slot has fallen off a lot since the beginning - it feels like the slot started fast and then just ran out of gas because it's in a comfortable position and doesn't really need to do anything anymore.

This is not something that jumped out at me reading the thread in replacement mode.

I also disagree with your Dannflor read. I don't think scum-Dannflor would have hesitated to hammer you.

[fferyllt]

based on what

Based on the meta Cabd and I worked up in the Nearly Normal game. His scum game didn't look all that hesitant.

The main concerns I have about Dann are more related to the tell he has/had in common with S_S: thread health maintenance. For the most part this game doesn't look like it's needed a lot of that. The interactions between him and SCRRRD looked like the most heated, and he wasn't in a position to mediate that.

Concerns are minor, though. Overall I'm townreading him, and I'm pretty happy about that! I like this player list a lot. Enough to play a ~shudder~ open set-up.

[fferyllt]

why isn't ffery speaking to you

To who?

[fferyllt]

based on what

Based on the meta Cabd and I worked up in the Nearly Normal game. His scum game didn't look all that hesitant.

The main concerns I have about Dann are more related to the tell he has/had in common with S_S: thread health maintenance. For the most part this game doesn't look like it's needed a lot of that. The interactions between him and SCRRRD looked like the most heated, and he wasn't in a position to mediate that.

Concerns are minor, though. Overall I'm townreading him, and I'm pretty happy about that! I like this player list a lot. Enough to play a ~shudder~ open set-up.

wasn't he like town in that game ?

yep!

[fferyllt]

to cakez

That's a good question. I was thinking about interaction from the other direction earlier.

It probs comes down to where the easiest hooks for getting stuck into the game have been so far.

[fferyllt]

based on what

Based on the meta Cabd and I worked up in the Nearly Normal game. His scum game didn't look all that hesitant.

The main concerns I have about Dann are more related to the tell he has/had in common with S_S: thread health maintenance. For the most part this game doesn't look like it's needed a lot of that. The interactions between him and SCRRRD looked like the most heated, and he wasn't in a position to mediate that.

Concerns are minor, though. Overall I'm townreading him, and I'm pretty happy about that! I like this player list a lot. Enough to play a ~shudder~ open set-up.

wasn't he like town in that game ?

yep!

i dont understand how you conclude this isn't his scum game from using meta from a town game

or i guess can you explain the townread more clearly?

The reason we/Morph switched our read of Dannflor initially was due a meta dive.

Maybe I'm underestimating him, but I don't think so. It's hard to map behaviors in a game where he replaced into a doomed slot onto this game. I don't have him south of null.

[fferyllt]

ffery who do you want to kill today?

SCRRRD. I want to solve my hood, and I think it is better for the game as a whole if we do that first.

[fferyllt]

ok so actually i was asking cakez why the ffery wagon wasn't speaking to him

I hadn't actually noticed whether or not you were speaking to him in thread or not

but interesting

I noticed he was talking about me, but not to me. But, there's a lot going on.

I kinda hoped Radja would make an appearance over (my) night.

[fferyllt]

I don't think I've ever seen you have an answer to that question so quickly before

There's a reason my vote isn't down.

[fferyllt]

sircakez - cakez hasn't really made sense most of this game but he never does really does. I don't get the feeling he actually thinks I'm mafia at all from his posting. it's kind of just "revenge on pooky" "let him eat his own medicine someone lol-hammer him" and that doesn't seem like a sentiment you express to someone you think is mafia

lowkey this is true but also the alternate lim options are not really speaking to me
I would do Dann if that wagon happened or maybe Radja

Are you not considering a small hood elimination? You had a vote down on my slot earlier, and you called my posts "manufactured".

[fferyllt]

I came back to find that you yelled at me for quoting Lucien's reads list but not asking questions about it. I won't have questions until I go back through Lucien's posts in this thread.

Sure, if we want to have that stuff in public, I'm fine asking here too - why was that post you quoted interesting to you?

(Also, that's not my name.)

The part about alts was interesting. How to read you and SCRRRD given your join dates was something I kept coming back to. You had phrased something similar in the game thread, but the implication of your post in the hood was a little more emphatic. Reading it again this morning, the difference in phrasing is not as pronounced as I was thinking yesterday.

I was wondering if you're aware that that was not a readslist, just a copy-paste of the playerlist.

I was not planning for a difference in phrasing, for what it's worth. Though reading over both, I'm not sure how you see the hood post as more empathic, or what that even means in this context.

When I read it last night, I was tired and trying to get rehydrated. By more emphatic I mean that when I read it, I interpreted the hood comment as something close to "there's probably at least one alt in this hood".

Rereading it, I think I was projecting my reluctant pattern-match quest. I don't want to do it, but pattern matching is what I default to in mafia. Neither of you so far really remind me of specific other players. There's a whole swath of players I seldom encounter because I mostly avoid open setups and the normal queues. So on the one hand, I want to dismiss the question and just treat you both as competent players of at least middling experience. On the other hand, shut up pattern match neurons, I'm busy.

[fferyllt]

Also, I think fferyllt should be given zero town points for not hammering Pooky. If she is scum and he's town, it's probably optimal for her to not hammer him, even if she's in danger of getting eliminated herself.

If she gets BEAR eliminated, then good for her, she scored a miselim. If Pooky gets eliminated and flips town, then she scores town points for not hammering him. If she gets eliminated and flips red, Pooky is probably getting eliminated first thing Tomorrow morning. She can't lose.

Obviously she can't hammer in the event that she IS scum with Pooky,

but I kind of don't really think Pooky is scum, so

.

Elaborate on the bolded?

I initially thought that him going so long without a hammer indicates scum. None of the small hood seems to have an appetite there. We were all in-thread while he was at e-1.

[fferyllt]

There's a reason my vote isn't down.

The reason being?

I don't usually put a vote down until I'm 100% on where I want it to be.

I also prefer to observe how my own wagon forms/unforms/reforms/etc., without jostling it.

[fferyllt]

Hey hey!

I had a really rough day so I'll keep this short.

Hi fferyllt! Glad to see you in a game!
Unfortunately for you, you're in a horrible slot.

I reaaaaaally dont want to eliminate from the small hood. Can we not do that please?

Fferyllt, are you all caught up?

I dont really have a lot to add here, I think the day has lasted long enough.

Will try to be around more tomorrow

Not as caught up as I want to be. Trying to do isos this morning, but the game thread is active and I can't resist real-time interaction.

Fortunately for me, I don't have to be alive to win the game!

[fferyllt]

Just it being implicit in fferylt passing up a hammer in a game state where fferyltown lol hammering scumpooky is more of a plus two than a plus one

I'm curious to see what Ceph has to say about this take!

[fferyllt]

Have I played with fferylt ever? I probably misspelled it that time but not on purpose

Not under your current account. And long ago and far away. T-Bone's Amnesiac game. My first game with both you and Ceph.

[fferyllt]

None of the small hood seems to have an appetite there.

BEAR is already voting him...

fferyllt, can you acknowledge this?

sigh. probably not the only wire currently crossed.

[fferyllt]

ok so actually i was asking cakez why the ffery wagon wasn't speaking to him

I hadn't actually noticed whether or not you were speaking to him in thread or not

but interesting

Ohh
Bc I feel I can read her if given more posts

I don't remember you being this stand-offish in our prior games.

[fferyllt]

{Lucian}
{DAnnflor, Radja}
{Ceph, Isis}
{Pooky, Cakez}
{SCRRRD}

Town

Lucian - I moved him down and then I moved him back up. Pooky's comment about Lucian fading was part of the reason why I moved him down. His response is why I moved him back up. His response to Pooky resonated. I keep waffling about whether he belongs here, but from a small hood perspective I feel pretty confident.

Maybe Town

Dannflor - meta reasons for town. Some are experiential & some are from a meta dive I did in the game we both played. He replaced into an even more doomed slot than I did this game and resurrected his slot. If I were more confident about having a real grasp of his game, I'd move him higher. Augmenting the meta is how he reacted to SCRRRD's push. And augmenting that is a good feeling that a scum-SCRRRD wouldn't have gone after a partner that way.
Radja - Was hoping for sparkly new content, including a reaction to my towning him. So this read hasn't strengthened but he was my second townread during my readthru.
...
Cephrir - I am disappointed. And having occasional flashbacks to bloodstained & diffusion. bloodstained doesn't map. diffusion maps more, but the difference between being in a game from the start and having a tough time of it, and replacing in is significant. I'm going to call it paranoia.
Isis - I've gone back and forth. The whimsy clanged in the first few pages. There was no real RVS and the whimsy was in a backdrop consisting of a whole lot of srsbsns. On balance, there's more game-thoughts than whimsy, but the whimsy obscures reasonings.

Not so town

Pooky - main reason is the lack of a hammer, though I hate to base reads on what other people do pre-flip. He's not exactly phoning it in, but he's not the bright boisterous bundle of town energy I like to see! Also, no overpowering scent of Axe.
Cakez - his posts feel shallow like he's playing beside the game, not in it. I was squicked that he thinks more posts will make me readable, with no real interest in engagement.
SCRRRD - pretty sure I've said plenty about why I'm confident he's scum. If Lucian has snowed me (& not just me), that's going to hurt. It would be hilariously awful if it took 3 game days to sort the small hood, but I don't think that's going to happen.

----------------

This is not a seriatim list, void where prohibited, your mileage may vary.

[fferyllt]

ok so actually i was asking cakez why the ffery wagon wasn't speaking to him

I hadn't actually noticed whether or not you were speaking to him in thread or not

but interesting

Ohh
Bc I feel I can read her if given more posts

I don't remember you being this stand-offish in our prior games.

how am I being stand offish

Because you interacted more in our previous games. Because you say you need more from me, but you're not trying to generate what you say you need.

[fferyllt]

It's not a typo!

I'm excited it has RL non-mafia resonance!

[fferyllt]

Eh. maybe he is town.

Speaking of internal I clearly haven't internalized the setup well enough.

And probably won't until I've lived with it a couple more RL days.

Will think some on if Cakez fits the puzzle better, or if I'm completely on the the wrong track re the big hood.

[fferyllt]

Alright, just a quick thought dump here:

fferyllt is obviously a very competent mafia player. I've played with her before and I'm pretty sure she's fooled me before.
I don't see Lucian or ScaredBear being scum yet.
If not for the Somnus interactions, I don't know how I'd read this slot.
Either way, I have 0 interest in eliminating from the small hood, so I guess I don't need to worry about being wrong?
fferyllt townreading me: I think I'd expect that from town fferyllt, but scum fferyllt would probably try to pocket me too? The fact that she's mostly townreading me because I don't feel very pressured is not great though, for multiple reasons:
- I think I'm one of the least trusted players in the big hood, so I'm kinda expecting to get eliminated at some point?
- I actually WANT people to look at the big hood first, and I want mafia to kill in the big hood. So I don't really care if I'm being looked at here, see previous point.
- I haven't played mafia in forever, so I'm not sure a meta read on me is going to be very accurate
- There's no power roles to get nervous about having to out.

Soooo idk about fferyllt. Buuuut I'm not going to vote her today.

The fact that both ScaredBear and fferyllt seem to want to flip Pooky worries me though. I don't see the small hood scum bussing his partner on day 1?
However, fferyllt has been very reluctant about hammering. So maybe that's just fferyllt stalling?

I'm not sure you could extinguish the meta channel I read in your play.

The last miselim of you where I voted you, a scum player had fake-guiltied you.

Anyway, more to the point, if you ARE the least trusted member of the big hood, that's a reflection on the big hood imo.

Ceph, you probs don't remember much of it but I'll point back to the DeDeDe mini. Rajma's alt was kept around for elo mislim. Which I'd like to think wouldn't have happened if Morph had improbably still been alive at that point.

[fferyllt]

:/

Eliminating in the small hood is the correct play.

[fferyllt]

:/

Eliminating in the small hood is the correct play.

I don't like this post

I don't think you would be sad and resigned as town here I think you would have some FIRE to kill the BEAR

this is a post designed to make people not want to vote you

I wanted to see this vote count before putting down my vote. And I'm still a little hesitant because I don't have a good feel for who would be scum with SCRRRD. This setup encourages preflip association hunting and that is NOT my forte.

vote: SCRRRDBEAR

Re FIRE, whooo I almost let inner whine loose.

[fferyllt]

Alright, just a quick thought dump here:

fferyllt is obviously a very competent mafia player. I've played with her before and I'm pretty sure she's fooled me before.
I don't see Lucian or ScaredBear being scum yet.
If not for the Somnus interactions, I don't know how I'd read this slot.
Either way, I have 0 interest in eliminating from the small hood, so I guess I don't need to worry about being wrong?
fferyllt townreading me: I think I'd expect that from town fferyllt, but scum fferyllt would probably try to pocket me too? The fact that she's mostly townreading me because I don't feel very pressured is not great though, for multiple reasons:
- I think I'm one of the least trusted players in the big hood, so I'm kinda expecting to get eliminated at some point?
- I actually WANT people to look at the big hood first, and I want mafia to kill in the big hood. So I don't really care if I'm being looked at here, see previous point.
- I haven't played mafia in forever, so I'm not sure a meta read on me is going to be very accurate
- There's no power roles to get nervous about having to out.

Soooo idk about fferyllt. Buuuut I'm not going to vote her today.

The fact that both ScaredBear and fferyllt seem to want to flip Pooky worries me though. I don't see the small hood scum bussing his partner on day 1?
However, fferyllt has been very reluctant about hammering. So maybe that's just fferyllt stalling?

I'm not sure you could extinguish the meta channel I read in your play.

The last miselim of you where I voted you, a scum player had fake-guiltied you.

Anyway, more to the point, if you ARE the least trusted member of the big hood, that's a reflection on the big hood imo.

Ceph, you probs don't remember much of it but I'll point back to the DeDeDe mini. Rajma's alt was kept around for elo mislim. Which I'd like to think wouldn't have happened if Morph had improbably still been alive at that point.

i recall i had occasion to look at that game a year or two ago and was amazed by how little memory i had of it

I have no recollection of this game at all.

That one was seared into my brain. You replaced in on your Chiaotzu alt. I didn't know who you were and iirc got wrapped around the axle initially over a chronology thing. When I found out your main, it all fell into place and I defended you against nacho/Oil Tycoons during a fair chunk of day 1.

[fferyllt]

:/

Eliminating in the small hood is the correct play.

cease filling my mind with doubts at once

Oh damn. likely a false alarm but I've been on high alert re heartstring plucking.

[fferyllt]

final thoughts?

[fferyllt]

If you're town, I don't feel good about the odds. :/

[fferyllt]

If you actually are town - why are you calling fferyllt town for not hammering you? I laid out why that's wrong.

I'd be less likely to to hammer pooky as a scum partner, I think. That's generically true of my playstyle, but doubly so given the setup.

[fferyllt]

GG Town!

So much for trynna get elimmed...

[fferyllt]

no redactions from me

[fferyllt]

I thought town was very efficient at finding each other for the most part during my readthrough.

My experience is that often in games where the percentage of veterans is high things get unfun and even sometimes toxic pretty easily/quickly.

I felt like this game avoided that for the most part. The Dannflor/SCRRRDBEAR interactions could have gone badly, but didn't so gj to both of you!

My only question about my part in the game was how on earth was I menacing?

And also how the hell was I not the day 1 elim?

And finally, this playerlist was a delight!

[fferyllt]

Being able to do both is a plus, and I suspect that's the case for at least most of this playerlist.

[fferyllt]

My only question about my part in the game was how on earth was I menacing?

IT'S PROBABLY JUST A *ME* THING BUT YOU APPEARED TOO CALM AND FEARLESS FOR ME TO EVER LET MY GUARD DOWN. I COULD BEARLY FEEL ANY ZEAL, PARANOIA OR ANXIETY FROM YOUR POSTS WHICH ARE ALL MOTIVATORS I CAN RELATE TO. MY MAIN TAKEAWAY WHILE READING YOUR SCUM POSTS WAS THAT A PSYCHOKILLER WAS TRYING TO LEAD ME TOWARD THEIR VAN. IT MADE ME SCRRRD AND CAUSED ME TO REMEMBER TO STOP, DROP AND ROLL.

That's interesting. My town game is sometimes dispassionate, too. It's a player list and mood thing.

On the other hand one game (I was town) I was so unflappable that a player decided I had to be scum for the reason you outlined here. And decided the only way he'd get me elimmed was to fake a guilty. That was a mess. My avatar apparently looked to calm and kind, too, or something.

I knew I needed a longer break from mafia, but wanted to play with Radja and Dannflor again, and the whole player list looked good. I think the hesitance bled into my play.

I love the avatar that Datisi made for me, but I don't think it works for playing. A detached Koakuna floating above it all was too close to my base mood and made it harder to stay stuck in the game.

[fferyllt]

Whimsy Clang!