Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[T-Bone]

in fact maybe people should claim if they shot anyone

who shot enchant

i shot enchant

But he didn't shoot the deputy

[T-Bone]

Hyperpost Meta vs Board of Mis-directors vs 3.07

Pysche (5): Dunnstral, Shirou, Gamma Emerald, Save The Dragons, NorwegianboyEE ,
Dunnstral (1) : Psyche ,
Shirou (3) : T-Bone, SirCakez, Thestatusquo,

Not Voting (3): Sheepssaysmeep , Enchant, PookytheMagicalBear,,


With 12 Alive, It Takes 7 to Eliminate.
Deadline for challenge is (expired on 2023-02-11 10:45:00)

Mod Notes:

Are any of you voters budging or not? (I know someone unvoted after this VC) I know I'm undermining myself a bit but I'm willing to budge I guess. Anything to progress at this point.

[T-Bone]

also cakes if your logic is "well if the wagon stalls on someone and they dont die they're mafia" then what about yourself? you got stalled on 6 votes a while back didnt you?

Single Braincell vs Not Cheaters 1.2

PookytheMagicalBear (0) :
Gamma Emerald (0) :
SirCakez (6) : PenguinPower, Gamma Emerald, PookytheMagicalBear, Freedom, Save The Dragons, Alisae
T-Bone (0) :

Not Voting (8): Thestatusquo, Haschel Cedricson, NorwegianboyEE, SirCakez, T-Bone, Enchant, furtiveglance, Lazy Shirou,


With 14 Alive, It Takes 7 to Eliminate.
Deadline is (expired on 2023-02-02 15:45:00)

why didn't this wagon go thru if scum r fine taking easy mislims?

This is a weird VC looking back on it. E-1 and everyone else not voting.

[T-Bone]

Is literally anyone opposed to switching the elim and getting norwee?

Not my preferred solution but I'd do it to get a flip.

[T-Bone]

for example:

this is VC:

Pysche (5): Dunnstral, Shirou, Gamma Emerald, Save The Dragons, NorwegianboyEE ,
Dunnstral (1) : Psyche ,
Shirou (3) : T-Bone, SirCakez, Thestatusquo,

Not Voting (3): Sheepssaysmeep , Enchant, PookytheMagicalBear,,


With 12 Alive, It Takes 7 to Eliminate.

For me though two people I view as reasonably town (you and Enchant) are not even voting so this VC doesn't even work for me. I have Shea and Cakez with me on Shirou and then with the exception of maybe Gamma all the people I reasonably suspect on psyche, and then psyche voting Dunn. This is why we're stuck from my perspective. Either all 4 scum are stuck on psyche, or like psyche/sheep is half the scum team (or I'm reading either Enchant or Cakez wrong). This is why I quoted this VC earlier and suggested consolidating. I'd love a Shirou flip, but I think flipping psyche also could solve the game?

Unless they are T/T then we've made a mess of things.

[T-Bone]

About to yolo vote psyche just to make something happen bad idea or worst idea????

[T-Bone]

They are saying you're scum for doing nothing and then you make a nothing post lolol

[T-Bone]

I shot Dunn and then Shirou.

[T-Bone]

Would not be surprised if sheep is scum
This is kinda OMGUS but I’m also the only read he’s bothered to talk about in any detail

He detailed a scumread on me too, not just you. I also found it lacking because he decided to scumread me for pushing for Pooky's lim even though that's not what happened.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: psyche

I guess.

[T-Bone]

Would not be surprised if sheep is scum
This is kinda OMGUS but I’m also the only read he’s bothered to talk about in any detail

He detailed a scumread on me too, not just you. I also found it lacking because he decided to scumread me for pushing for Pooky's lim even though that's not what happened.

nothing against pushing pooky. it's more like it never felt (at least early d1, not sure about later down the line) that u tried to sort between pooky/cakez/whoever else was in the pool, and the only ever sort of acknowledgement was that u felt like choosing pooky cuz u wanted ur neighbor alive, which isnt a valid excuse to not still have interest in deliberating their alignments

I didn't think any of them were scum. Still don't, really. I also never chose Pooky. I brainstormed my position with other players based on the reads I had at the time.

[T-Bone]

Give me the lazers win and I'll swap them right back in. I'll even keep Cakez and myself if y'all want.

[T-Bone]

You're confused by my motives because you haven't done anything lol

[T-Bone]

Imagine doing even a little bit of skimming and you'd understand

[T-Bone]

Yeah I mean we can't actually try to plan out who wins in thread. I have hope, naive hope maybe, that if I swap Shirou back in against Cakez/me as opposed to psyche it might finally happen.

[T-Bone]

Yeah I mean we can't actually try to plan out who wins in thread. I have hope, naive hope maybe, that if I swap Shirou back in against Cakez/me as opposed to psyche it might finally happen.

We can plan it out though

We can all state our intentions without using a swap

I meant we can't plan out the lazer game

[T-Bone]

You could state your intentions though!

[T-Bone]

Yeah I mean we can't actually try to plan out who wins in thread. I have hope, naive hope maybe, that if I swap Shirou back in against Cakez/me as opposed to psyche it might finally happen.

We can plan it out though

We can all state our intentions without using a swap

I meant we can't plan out the lazer game

we can plan it to an extent
outside of just shooting, scum has no apparent way to influence it. as long as me and Pooky don't shoot the same person in both remaining rounds there should be a legitimate winner

As long as we don't circle shoot either.

[T-Bone]

I figured someone would shoot Shirou in round 1 and I didn't want him getting coins when I am trying to lim him.

[T-Bone]

I'd prefer swapping Shirou back in but I can back a Norwee vote.

[T-Bone]

I mean you swapped Shirou out so I don't know why you're upset at me for suggesting my preferred lim is Shirou.

[T-Bone]

Actually who shot me?

[T-Bone]

I also shot psyche.

[T-Bone]

Can you claim your lazer shots from before if you haven't already?

[T-Bone]

Lazer Tag

Round 2 Results:

SirCakez has been Shot!
Sheepssaysmeep has been Shot!
Shirou has been Shot!
Save the Dragons has been Shot!

Living Players (5): Gamma Emerald, Psyche, T-Bone, PookytheMagicalBear, Thestatusquo

Round 3 Ends In (expired on 2023-02-01 14:45:00)

for t-bone/tsq/psyche/sc to be the team and this to be the 5 people alive and none of those 3 mafia members shoot either me or GE is pretty unbelievable to me

I might as well tip my theory since you seem to be thinking it too. With the 5 people who were left after last round for you or Gamma not getting shot likely means one of two things. We were all town or one of you/Gamma is scum. Because having you both alive in Round 4 means your team wins the mini game and literally nothing can stop it unless you and Gamma decide to cross shoot.

I wanted to know if Shea shot me, but he never answered. But still I would be shocked if he were Mafia by his play this game. Like maybe there's a world where his frustration with you over the coins is because he's scum who realized he messed up his shot but I don't think we live in that world.

[T-Bone]

if psyche is scum it doesnt really matter where psyche shoots

I think it matters if psyche shot at me and not you or Gamma? Like I do find the idea that scum wouldn't try to prevent you and Gamma from winning 1400 coins tough. I'm not ready to clear psyche or anything but I'm ready to lim whomever between Norwee and Shirou you ultimately swap back in and hope that's it's not you or Gamma, which is the only other logical explanation.

i dont know if you can go as far as to say all town but it rules out at least the teamed scum scenario for me

But yeah I agree it rules out teamed scum.

[T-Bone]

Uhhh he didn't??? He either shot me or didn't submit.

[T-Bone]

To be fair it's the same reason I gave for voting psyche after the swap. Though I'll be switching to Norwee when you swap in a few hours.

[T-Bone]

I mean if you thought I was scum you'd vote me but you've declined both times I've been available to do so.

[T-Bone]

Thanks cakez

I asked because I am paranoid tbone manipulated me into spending money to kill Titus and wanted to know if he was trying to manipulate other people into other viewpoints

I think maybe you baited me so we're...even?

[T-Bone]

I don't know.

[T-Bone]

You brought up the possibility of double voting. Then you were like "I'm gonna switch in Gamma/Pooky to force the vote on Titus instead" and then you were like "T-Bone is trying to get me to waste my coins" and then we did it. In retrospect I feel baited by this manic set of events! So I think we're at least even if you feel I manipulated you into doing those things.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Norwee

[T-Bone]

The sheer speed of this wagon is just like titus

Individually I think norwe can be scum but there's 0 resistance to doing him today rather than psyche right now

You're resisting

Gottem

[T-Bone]

It's not like Titus at all though.

[T-Bone]

I don't know why you think that will elicit an emotional response from me. While I do care about getting my reads right it's also just a game and I'll just say I either played well or I didn't and then compliment other players for playing well and that's that.

[T-Bone]

You're acting like caught scum which is super weird since it was so hard to flip you and we're flipping someone else.

[T-Bone]

I'm fine it just looks like AtE, I get why you're doing it.

[T-Bone]

I just don't know what Shirou is doing if he and Norwee are aligned here.

[T-Bone]

It's not working is the problem lolol

[T-Bone]

Not Cheaters challenges Hyperpost Meta

T-Bone not post in a locked thread challenge

[T-Bone]

Oh fick all y'all

[T-Bone]

I'm posting while the thread is locked next time

[T-Bone]

Just know that you all owe me and one day I'm going to collect

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Shirou

Should have killed the king not the bearster.

[T-Bone]

Why did you try to challenge StD? Last you spoke of Shirou you were concerned I was manipulating SirCakez into a mislim.

[T-Bone]

I don't know if you notices but the guy who protected shirou and who was protected by shirou flipped scum dude

No I noticed non of that in fact there have been no posts between that one a referenced and now

[T-Bone]

I was being sarcastic in response to StD's hostility when I felt like I asked a fair question.

[T-Bone]

It's because I'm too good you should have tried shading someone else on day 1

[T-Bone]

To be clear I'm being cheeky

[T-Bone]

I just wanted to know I wasn't doing a gotcha!

[T-Bone]

Are we yeeting Shirou now

No we're doing something wild for the lulz choose your competitor

[T-Bone]

I'm fine giving Shirou time to post final reads or whatever he wants as well.

[T-Bone]

Dead air dead villager…

XD

[T-Bone]

I feel like you're just stalling at this point. I don't know if it's because you're hoping for another mini game or what but I promise if I could affect whether you got coins or not I wouldn't let you so...you're done, no need to wait out for a mini game. It's clear Norwee was trying to protect you and it back fired and you obviously see that.

[T-Bone]

And that no one scumread Pooky so he wasn't getting mislimed ever.

[T-Bone]

Oh I got you, I guess I won't be feeling bad post game, Shirou :p

[T-Bone]

I doubt Shirou and Alisae are aligned.

But when i even was right?

I'm surprised by this challenge. I think Alisae was pocketed by Shirou. It would be wild if Ali was actually scum?

[T-Bone]

RIP your spoiler

[T-Bone]

Do you have any thoughts related to the scumflips? We basically did that part of the game without you present.

[T-Bone]

I might be reading into Shirou's WIFOM more than I should but the way he just gave up implies to me scumbuddies not being helpful or not being present.

[T-Bone]

Do you have any thoughts related to the scumflips? We basically did that part of the game without you present.

Yes that influenced my reads on Psyche and Gamma becoming town and leaves me with my pool of 4 to work with. I don't have deep thoughts about the remaining 4. I've skimmed a few of sheep's posts in the past but didn't feel either kind of way about them. Save the Dragons is pure PoE. SirCakez was being pushed by Pooky who died instead of one of the people who were pushing both Shirou and Norwee so that is kind of suspect (though Pooky was pushing Norwee as well I think)

Sheep, StD, and Cakez who's the 4th in your PoE?

[T-Bone]

I got the same sense

[T-Bone]

Okay I think the scum flips solidified things for me. I read Shea as town, I find myself agreeing with Shea more than not and it would be a hell of a move for him to follow me on Shirou as early as he did when no one else wanted to (this was like early Day 2 iirc). I moved Cakez up to town lean because of what Norwee and Shirou tried when they swapped us in. I think that at the point in the game where Shirou had targeted psyche, it was at a time where the scum team was on their way to another mislim which meant they'd have one remaining. I think it's telling when Norwee swapped Shirou for me/Cakez. I'll go back and pull quotes, but it looks like as people started to discuss the possibility of Cakez being scum, Norwee pulled the trigger to try and get a repeat of what we did to Furtive. I'm writing a note for myself to compare the two situations to see if there are any parallels in how others reacted. Then that would have freed us up to do Shirou vs psyche again and mislim psyche for the scum win. So I think that's evidence for psyche and Cakez town. I'm mildly considering that a psyche scumflip would have been beneficial to Shirou, but I'm unsure the scum team would have wanted that when they were half way to a win. I think Enchant is town, but I do admit Enchant could easily fit on a scum team with Norwee/Shirou just because of how unoffensive he is. I think Gamma is town but I think Gamma could fit on the scum team and Pooky's kill means if Gamma is scum she no longer has to hold him off in a shared PT. I think Alisae was pocketed by Shirou and that explains a lot of Alisae's behavior. Unless Dunn is somehow fabricating what happened in the PT, it's hard to see why aligned players would make so much use of a neighborhood PT. That leaves me with the only logical options. It's partly because of game circumstance, and partly because I think the players who could logically fit into a Norwee/Shirou scum team are town that I arrive at Sheep and StD. At one point I held the belief that Sheep's slot and Shirou weren't aligned. But I thought sheep's play around both eliminations and now the current challenge doesn't make sense. I don't remember seeing Sheep around the Norwee situation at all. Now sheep could have just been away because Sheep is away a lot. Sheep did show up for Shirou, but honestly I think at that point Shriou was all but confirmed scum so any vote coming after mine could be a bus. What struck me as odd was this little exchange with Gamma. Where Gamma proposes a scumteam of Shirou/Dunn/Cakez and Sheep goes 'this is bad from Gamma minus town points'...and then in his next post literally says the scumteam is those same three players. It looks to me like Sheep forgot what he said he thinks in thread. (I'll quote these side by side in the next post) The last player is StD. I gave StD a lot of credit for spending coins to get Titus limmed and maybe I shouldn't have. I think I'm going to recognize it as a situation where StD put out the bait and I took it, only so StD can make it look like I made him do it later. (I imagine once I post this StD will contest this characterization). But what ended up happening is rather than flipping Shriou on Day 2, we flipped Titus...and then we almost flipped psyche on Day 3, getting psyche to e-1 or e-2 before Norwee jumped in and claimed scum. I just think if we had limmed psyche and scum were in LiLo that is especially great for StD. I also remember that StD or Norwee said they weren't using their PT. They wouldn't really have to if they were aligned in the mafia PT. I will go back and look to make sure I'm not misattributing that quote. If either Sheep or StD flip town my world view will be shattered but I think based on everything I think I know about this game it has to be them.

Spoiler: Reads 4.0

Town Lean
Shea
Cakez

Null Lean
Gimli
Enchant
Gamma
Dunn

Scum Lean
Sheep
StD

Spoiler: Reads 3.0

Town Lean
Enchant
Shea
Pooky

Null Lean
Gamma
Cakez
Norwee
StD

Scum Lean
Dunnstral
Psyche
Sheep
Shirou

[T-Bone]

reading std is the weirdest ever

obvtown (game start) to obvwolf (flailing when ppl first sus him) to obvtown (midgame) to obvwolf (treatment of shirou v. psyche round 1) to obvtown (start of d3)

literally impossible to iso because every 1-liner can only be read in contex

Atp I think I’m just going to treat Shirou/Norwee/Dunnstral as Town because if they’re scum we just lose

also this could be such a bad perspective that it's just minus townpoints
which is really strange because I remember talking to gamma 20 pages later and thinking her worldview was remarkably similar to mine, something to flag

sheep - sheep

shea - shea

std - villager, is definitely thinking rly hard, it's not just random bs

enchant - im just gonna sheep my towncore's read on enchant, but if I end up in F3 with him and no one at any point explained intricately what to think abt this meta-wise, then im gonna kill someone

Psyche

gamma - worrying but tonally is villager

Tbone - has the best vibes like it felt like town had a brief 2 hour good period and he was a seamlessly natural part of it idk


—a line—

leaves Dunn/shirou/cake

Wasnt even intentional to end up with literally 3 ppl, was meant to be a normal realist

These are 12 hours apart. Gamma loses town points for their bad perspective on the scumteam...and then Sheep produces the same scumteam in their next post. What?

[T-Bone]

Everyone is saying I'm town. I've been right on two flips in a row, and no still no one is listening to me. Cakez what do you think about my argument that sheep is town?

PEDIT: Haven't read all of tbones wall but I was on shirou before you iirc.

I'm pretty sure I clocked Shirou as scum first on Day 1. But you definitely clocked Norwee first.

I did read your post I just wanted to get my reads out first before I responded.

[T-Bone]

I’ve done nothing worth reporting.

Yeah logically speaking it makes more sense for Pooky’s team to win. It’s nonsensical to argue otherwise unless any of Pooky/Gamma were scum and TSQ was not.

3 people in the game have suggested i should be limmed.
3 people. 2 of those 3 strongly arguing.

T-Bone, Gamma, TSQ.

Psyche or Cakez could still be an wagon even with a swap. I’m not too worried.

Shirou surviving over me would basically mean my goal is finished even if i’m killed. By confirming Shirou town people will hopefullt to them and not the agency complainer.

Shea pinged #4465 but I wanted to grab Norwee's other posts from that time as well as take a peak what was happening in the thread. The rest of us were discussing the results of the lazer game when Norwee made that post (3rd one quoted). Norwee's other three posts roughly seem game relevant. Although the 4th post in this sequence also is kinda out of place, though we do know now they were both scum, so clearly that was intended for the thread.

(Also I thought we could all appreciate the first quote in light of the scum flip trololol)

[T-Bone]

reading std is the weirdest ever

obvtown (game start) to obvwolf (flailing when ppl first sus him) to obvtown (midgame) to obvwolf (treatment of shirou v. psyche round 1) to obvtown (start of d3)

literally impossible to iso because every 1-liner can only be read in contex

Atp I think I’m just going to treat Shirou/Norwee/Dunnstral as Town because if they’re scum we just lose

also this could be such a bad perspective that it's just minus townpoints
which is really strange because I remember talking to gamma 20 pages later and thinking her worldview was remarkably similar to mine, something to flag

sheep - sheep

shea - shea

std - villager, is definitely thinking rly hard, it's not just random bs

enchant - im just gonna sheep my towncore's read on enchant, but if I end up in F3 with him and no one at any point explained intricately what to think abt this meta-wise, then im gonna kill someone

Psyche

gamma - worrying but tonally is villager

Tbone - has the best vibes like it felt like town had a brief 2 hour good period and he was a seamlessly natural part of it idk


—a line—

leaves Dunn/shirou/cake

Wasnt even intentional to end up with literally 3 ppl, was meant to be a normal realist

These are 12 hours apart. Gamma loses town points for their bad perspective on the scumteam...and then Sheep produces the same scumteam in their next post. What?

this kind of sloppiness on read progressions is waaaaay more likely to come from town.

I mean sheep is barely present, I could see it simply being a case where sheep forgot what he told the thread.

[T-Bone]

I think sheep is a very easy and convenient slot for scum to attack and try to put in the poe because he's not active and hasnt done a whole lot but the whole interplay between sheep and those wagons just feels incredibly uninformed to me.

As a matter of fact the flipped mafia have placed a surprisingly low amount of pressure on Haschel/Sheep slot, so this isn't true.

In my team pt Shirou surprisingly does not bite at Haschel suspicions coming from Alisae at all, and even redirects a steal action against you/sheep into a more defensive guard action

Norwee has them in their poe, but they don't place much pressure there, and I don't think they have all the mafia in their townreads just looking at it. They talk about them in posts 3882, 3898, and 4437, which is the post with reads. The suspicion in 3898 comes at a time when sheep is not a valid vote and plenty of players are suspecting Norwee, I think.

With that said, Haschel's posts towards Shirou and Norwee don't strike me as aligned.

Like, assuming Dunn is not making up the PT (which we can't know but I highly doubt it) I agree with this.

I do think there is some merit to Sheep being LHF, I just don't know who else you slot in as a teammate.

[T-Bone]

Switch "Team Hyperpost Meta" with "Team Not Cheaters"

This is swapping Shirou and I for T-bone and SirCakez, and leaving Psyche in

At the time it was looking like the elimination was going to consolidate onto either Psyche or Shirou

I don't think that T-bone was likely to be voted for, so is this a power play to swap in a bunch of townies while mafia is close to winning, making SirCakez town, or is this wifom

I am leaning on this being a power play and Sircakez being town

there wasn't really a lot of sentiment against Cakez atp so I can see it being WIFOM

I mean I remember people saying at the time 'maybe Cakez is scum' and I even checked the quoted post to see that quite a few people had in thread the preceding 3 pages. So it looks to me like Norwee was trying to get another mislim option in because the one on psyche stalled.

[T-Bone]

I think Enchant is town, but I do admit Enchant could easily fit on a scum team with Norwee/Shirou just because of how unoffensive he is.

wdm

In that like I don't think you've had any meaningful interactions with Shirou or Norwee. But I also recognize that's normal for you, you don't directly interact with players unless they initiate usually. Like if we start flipping town on the players I think are scum with them, then that means I'm making some incorrect town reads, and you could be that player I'm incorrectly reading. I don't know!

[T-Bone]

You are like eternally the "if I'm wrong I'm wrong on this player" player for me lololol

[T-Bone]

oh wait

it's that I misread gamma's post I think?? as non-sarcastic

Well, clear this up for me. Why did you seemingly disagree with Gamma for the scumteam she posted only for you to post the same scum team?

[T-Bone]

Got you

[T-Bone]

I don't think Dunn could fake the content of the PT. Sheep brings up an interesting idea though, based on Dunn's recap Shirou stopped interacting with Dunn in the PT.

[T-Bone]

It doesn't matter that they were way ahead that means they could bus pretty safely and appear town. There's a reason shirou really wanted us to flip psyche

To get a mislim. What?

[T-Bone]

VOTE: shirou

this is just depressing by this point...

this game went wrong on so many levels i wouldn't even know how to start. if anyone thinks this was a miserable/frustating game for town like pooky, you may be in for a trip in the scum PT later.

there was a single thing i had some pride for and it was my scum game, but now it feels like a rather cruel and bad joke.

some things are better left to post-game though...there's many things to be said in post-game here i think.

Did you just claim mafia

yeah, wanna guess why?

i don't think it needs a hint

if only some people did their job

I just...does Shirou do this if Enchant is scum? It looks pretty petty.

But I guess it's getting me to question whether this is real or not so its done its job.

[T-Bone]

It was something I glazed over the first time but suddenly pinged in my head as I was catching up on the last few pages.

[T-Bone]

I cannot read that VC, Enchant needs 1 more vote? 2? 3???

[T-Bone]

I think the second part of your question has a clear answer, to get one of Titus/psyche mislimmed. (which happened ultimately) If you're actually asking why Shirou didn't swap himself out, I would assume for town cred? I know that gave me pause when he didn't.

[T-Bone]

i think if you had been less stubborn and had given 5 reasons to vote shirou, shirou would have died before norwee

what

[T-Bone]

bruh there were so many reasons given why Shirou was scum what

[T-Bone]

I mean that's fine but it reads to me like you're trying to claim you didn't know why people were scumreading Shirou.

[T-Bone]

I don't think that last part is true what?

[T-Bone]

pretty demoralized when everyone's coming out of the woodwork to sus me for no reason

this feels so fake

That's probably real but StD is literally fighting back

[T-Bone]

It would be different if StD was on the chopping block.

[T-Bone]

Spicy

[T-Bone]

I'd hammer Enchant if it came to it but I have no interest in Cakez.

[T-Bone]

Tbone why don't you vote people why do you insist on hammering

I literally vote the players I think are scum, and vote them right away, but sometimes they aren't available.

[T-Bone]

Shirou was scum

This sure feels like how he was playing with Titus

Yeah Shirou was scum. Who I advocated voting for for days. How I played Titus was because of you.

[T-Bone]

Meanwhile when we could have flipped Shirou on day 2 or 3 you didn't participate and it took Norwee's flip for you to do so. I get it you didn't read Shirou as scum. but I did the work to get players I thought were scum flipped. I followed you despite my read on Shirou because I thought you were doing the same with your Titus read.

[T-Bone]

Sigh is this what we want?

[T-Bone]

Gimli can you please make yourself useful?

Sigh is this what we want?

jesus christ

Bruh I've been here since the beginning this isn't the first time the game has stalled and it probably won't be the last it's a little exhausting.

[T-Bone]

Nevermind having to fight for so long to get a player I thought was scum finally flipped. I think a little exasperation is earned.

[T-Bone]

I'd like you to play, I don't even care if you don't read the previous 200 pages but you're finding pushback by being dismissive.

[T-Bone]

Meta is trash

[T-Bone]

That's a meme to sum up how little stock I put into meta I'm not dismissing you. I think any player is capable of playing any way as any alignment.

[T-Bone]

219 pages and I think that's the first time I've pulled that out what a great player list this is trolololol

[T-Bone]

So what you're saying is hammer enchant before Enchant spends coin challenge :p

[T-Bone]

It was the exchange where we were stuck on Day 2 lim and StD offered to spend coins on a double vote to get Titus limmed. I said I would follow if StD did that, then StD said he'd do something else which I wasn't comfortable with, (the aforementioned putting up Shea to force people to vote Titus) and then StD said he wouldn't buy anything because he thought I would make an excuse to waste his coins. Then we both did what we'd say we do. At that stage of the game I thought StD showed conviction to get a player he allegedly scumread eliminated, which is why I agree to this plan and followed through.

[T-Bone]

Ideally we don't get to that point, we'll have majorly fucked up if so.

I'll give it back if we don't flip you.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

I think this is it.

[T-Bone]

UNVOTE:
tbone who do you think is stds partner

I think it's Sheep? I just struggle to see another partner. I'd have to then consider Cakez or Gamma as the 2nd order.

[T-Bone]

I mean I explained that I did it based on what I thought was coming from you. I know I made the decision to vote Titus but you keep trying to lay it all at my feet and that's not true or fair.

[T-Bone]

"This time". But we've rehashed this about a dozen times.

[T-Bone]

Right I should have held stronger on my conviction on Shirou on day 2 but didn't. It's much easier to criticize in hindsight.

[T-Bone]

I do accept if Cakez is scum I've been willfully ignorant. A lot of what I have found helpful from Cakez has been in our PT so I get why that doesn't look great out here.

[T-Bone]

Why didn't you challenge Gimli?

[T-Bone]

I do accept if Cakez is scum I've been willfully ignorant. A lot of what I have found helpful from Cakez has been in our PT so I get why that doesn't look great out here.

Can you give a brief summary?

Yeah I'll find where I left off from the last summary and fill it in more.

[T-Bone]

Okay we have to back up a bit. I had a theory prior to Furtive being limmed that explained a Furtive/Shirou scumteam. I think this is where I started talking to Cakez about my reads in more detail. I remember Furtive being so incredulous that anyone would not rank their own team first. And I thought that lined up well with why we got blocked, because I very openly was not ranking my team first. Like we know that Hyperpost was not first on everyone's list, so I thought the block on us was crucial to Hyperpost winning (and it still might have been we'll find out later). Anyway there may still be a chance that scum thought like Furtive.

Anyway after Furtive got flipped I asked Cakez if I was making a mistake on Shirou like I did Furtive or if I had a good reason to think Shirou town. Cakez said he thinks Shirou is town because Pooky is scum. Then I explained why I think Shirou is scum in short. Cakez offered that one of Shirou/Pooky had to be scum. He said he finds everything Pooky says scummy, then asks me to explain more on Shirou. I do, and then Cakez said he can get on board. Then I asked him to forget about Pooky and explain his Shirou town read. He said he liked some posts and thought Pooky's push was scummy making Shirou town. Basically a reiteration of one scum in Shirou/Pooky. Then FB posted the start of the flag mini game and we haven't spoken since.

If you're wondering about that, neither of us posted for round 1, Cakez posted guard round 2 and I said maybe we should steal from Shirou, and then neither of us responded so we also didn't submit for round 3. You are now all caught up on our PT.

I've also made my reads publicly known so its not like he or anyone could be confused by them. At least not more than I am lolol

That's where we were. After that we received the coins from flag game. I asked Cakez what he thought about StD. I said I don't know what StD is doing because scum are having a perfect game and he's worried about scum bussing. I asked Cakez if I was giving StD too much credit for spending coins on the Titus lim. Cakez said he is scummy but could also be town based on other flips. I then posted about how I was thinking about my 3.0 reads and that I was stuck on Shirou partners, and so I spitballed what I eventually did post to the thread. Then the lazer game started, and I said we should shoot Shirou's team. I didn't get a response and I don't think Cakez ever submitted. After that Cakez said in response to my 3.0 reads spit balling that psyche had to be scum unless the scum team were galaxy braining, but he wouldn't commit hard to that read yet. He said the resistance to Shirou and the amount of counter wagons was suspicious. Then we moved on to prisoner's dilemma. We both agreed to cooperate. Then I had a brief bit of paranoia about not getting coins because maybe Cakez screwed me, but it turns out FB was just late and we both cooperated. Then during the last challenge we discussed whether we wanted to swap StD in or not. Cakez says he wants to but feels someone else will keep swapping so he feels kinda stuck. Then I suggested one of us could try to hammer Enchant when FB was around so that we could post the challenge against StD before someone else could. Cakez said he didn't want to hammer Enchant, and that he felt someone in his town pool was pocketing him. I just said I was pre-flipping Enchant as town in my head in response, Cakez says he agrees but it would be nice if Enchant is scum. Finally I said if Enchant is scum I think the game ends as it'll be too hard for the last scum to hide. You are now caught up again.

[T-Bone]

The context of me posting that was my assertion that I read Cakez as town because he's been helpful to me in the PT, which Gamma asked for me to back up by summarizing the PT.

[T-Bone]

i think the truce is up no one is interested in t-bone

VOTE: sircakez

I'm interested in me always

[T-Bone]

You just didn't seem all that interested yourself

[T-Bone]

Not everyone who is scum makes scum posts every time. I think its fair to say StD has made posts or done things I could see coming from town as well.

[T-Bone]

Like I see a world where StD is town and like it's Dunn instead or something wild. And in a world where StD is town maybe he's right about psyche/gimli.

[T-Bone]

VC NOT HERE IN AN HOUR

[T-Bone]

Okay so who is not voting? The game is stalled let's hear from the non voters.

[T-Bone]

I was being rhetorical in asking who isn't voting, it's clear from the latest VC. Just trying to spark something to move the game state.

[T-Bone]

Pour one out for Cakez. I think STD is scum, I am less sure of a partner, I would rank it as 1st tier, sheep, 2nd tier Dunn and Gamma, 3rd tier Shea and Gimli.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: StD

[T-Bone]

The mini game isn't over yet???

[T-Bone]

What

[T-Bone]

I do wanna go back to a time when Shirou/Norwee probably thought they were winning, so I guess I will stop being lazy too.

I did want to ask you Gamma, and maybe anyone else. Are Shriou and Alisae good enough friends to use a PT even if they are also scum? (I also have Alisae and Shirou's interaction where they go from opposite to same side in mind)

[T-Bone]

why do u think titus is town alisae pls people need to stop scumposting i swear

So my plan was to start from the Titus elimination and go until Norwee swapped in myself/Cakez into the challenge, because that is the timeframe scum was winning. This occurred a bit before and caught my eye so I'm gonna make a separate post real quick (and grab Gamma's post from a few posts ago). I would say Shirou might have felt like they were winning too as we were about to lim Titus.

Shirou was parked on psyche and Alisae was calling Titus town. Shirou makes this post and then Alisae hammers a few posts later. A few posts before that Alisae was insisting we were limming town.

hm

sorry for not trusting your read there alisae

Then this happened right after. Now, one thing I hammered on Shirou early for was trying to get me to vote for Pooky without Shirou casting a vote. So here's another example of that happening, and Gamma quoted an example that I also want to talk about.

You seem to think I'm ?scum? when I wasn't trying to powerplay?

i think you're scum because you're openly trying to get t-bone to vote me via a manipulation tactic that is scummy af and i also found your mech analysis pretty lacking tho i was willing to ignore that because you said you wanted to chillax this game.

why do you have your panties in a knot over 1 singular vote
if anything villagers should be open to the idea of using their vote to apply pressure
it's not like the vote is going to make or break your wagon

I don't get the issue

really weird framing here

address the concern
VOTE: pooky
not rly interested in this PvP mindset bullshit of attacking back and my main concern is I don't see how what you are describing is wolf indicative at all

mmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

this is the first thing that feels like it might have tangible value that I came across (went to the page it was on from my ISO)
I think alisaeslot being scum would mean tbone almost has to be town
otherwise I feel like this heat that pooky was getting doesn't make sense

When these posts occurred I had just gotten done explaining why I thought Shirou was trying to manipulate me into voting Pooky. And then Alisae gets...manipulated into voting Pooky? I have to follow up, I wonder if Shirou ever tried to use this as a counter example to say "I wasn't manipulating t-bone, alisae just did it too!"

[T-Bone]

What. I'm so confused. So Titus was town, Alisae somehow knew. And then hammered anyway?

i don't get how you were able to town read titus there but

yeah

What. I'm so confused. So Titus was town, Alisae somehow knew. And then hammered anyway?

are you trying to shade alisae now

she hammered bc that's what the day ended up looking like

So this is an exchange right after the Titus flip. Norwee shades Alisae, and then Shirou makes an excuse for Alisae. We know Norwee/Shirou are aligned, what happened here? Crosstalk because Alisae is town or doing a really bad job of distancing from also-scum Alisae?

am i crazy if i still want to do psyche

i'm much less confident now but i believe titus could have been the deflection

i'm laughing this game is a shitshow so farr but it's kinda like a funny shitshoq

This is another example post Shirou why I think Gimli is town. I saw that you said Gamma you thought psyche was a good bus target because psyche was struggling to gain a foothold in the game. To me #3448 looks like an acknowledgement that scum is winning (acting like two town flips were bad for Shirou), so #3444 doesn't make sense as a bus target to me. Cakez was still on the table as a possible mislim (something Norwee later tried). The only thing going for me that the Shirou was bussing psyche theory does require Alisae to be town, since Shirou manipulated e into hammering Titus potentially.

i think this game is funnier if psyche is town tbh but i know it looks bad to say it

i wish i was on the furtive wagon now

screw v/la

I know scum don't openly celebrate, but damn this does look a bit like Shirou feeling like the momentum to lim psyche was there. It's very similar to how I remember them feeling the momentum to get Cakez was. And then complaining that he didn't participate in the furtive mislim.

Dead air dead villager…

Oh ok it seems like we’re determined to eliminate what is probs a villager titus

Ok i thought it was a bit weird just this one time, but this is like twice now where Alisae is calling the flip town right before it happens.

What. I'm so confused. So Titus was town, Alisae somehow knew. And then hammered anyway?

so ali said titus was scum

threadlock

then ali hammered

then said titus was town

my brain is still spinning

No. Alisae said Titus was town, thread closed then opened, and then hammered.

What is the origin of this theory? I think I thought Alisae calling out the town flip back to back, especially after hammering Titus was weird in the same way Norwee tried to point out. Was this Norwee's theory from the get-go or was Norwee parroting someone else? (something else to go look for)

[T-Bone]

actually

norwee titus flipped town where are your thoughts now esp in regards to psyche

Well after that public humiliation i feel more open to listening to others i guess.
Still would like to hear more from Psyche though if possible.

oh ok

This looks so inorganic. Norwee posts thoughts about psyche, Shirou asks Norwee for thoughts about psyche in a later post, and then goes "oh but you gave them already". I didn't set out to say whether Shirou was bussing or pushing a mislim but I feel like I look at these posts and it looks clearly like Shirou is trying to get a mislim through. (this is what my read already is, so someone please check me if I'm reading into my bias)

it's a counter to two of my scumreads in Titus and Shirou

hmmmm

it's like watching a thriller movie and the climax is near

what will he say when he sees titus flipped town already

find out in the next chapter

i want to hear what you have to say now upon titus flip though

ok so he votes me anyway

These were all directed at Cakez.

i thought about making a entire parody of it but i want to limit my shitposting a bit to not bloat a game that already doesn't have a lot of engagement

These was too. It supports my theory that at this point in time I think Shirou thought he was winning. I think a few players had expressed frustration at the town flips (Pooky for example) so this is like an insincere 'yeah me too I hate that town is losing' post. That Shirou thought he was winning once again makes me think psyche was a mislim target.

It's also interesting that Shirou doesn't really engage with any other reads in the immediate aftermath of Titus' flip. This may be the start of where he and Norwee decided they would make Cakez their secondary target (leading to the moment where Norwee swapped in Cakez for Shirou).

[T-Bone]

I wanna pause here so Gamma and I aren't two ships passing in the night. So far I feel like I'm confirming the hypothesis I had in my head about what I would see when I ISOd Norwee/Shirou around this timeframe, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

[T-Bone]

I mean if anything sticks out to you. I also like just looked at this thread and worry we'd make it unreadable.

[T-Bone]

because the pool of Shirou freedom PP are 3 slots that I think have a decent chance of flipping wolf

my reads are lookin like this atm

shea std

furtive enchant

gamma
t-bone*

pooky

** Haschel

penguin

cakez

Norwee Shirou

Freedom

- I have 2 wolves in this pair. Probably 3 but 4 if Pooky is town
*I think it makes sense for him to be town. Though in the back of my mind I am aware it isn't impossible for a wolf to do what he's done so far
**it is very possible that I am getting fearmongered but like I think he is probably a townie?

hmmmm

It's funny you're about 8 days behind where I am reading. Alisae has basically moved Norwee and Shirou out of the pool by this point I'm at. Which re-reading Alisae says 'scum in Shirou/Freedom/PP'...Freedom/Titus flips town and then Shirou also leaves the this lim pool. (Shirou did leave Alisae's lim pool well before the Titus flip)

[T-Bone]

Oh as a side note I do want to apologize to Dunn as I am quoting things he can't really answer for. I found myself in a situation last game where I hyper focused reading on a big player who replaced out and I didn't give the replacement player as much benefit as I should have early on. Same thing applies to Gimli to a lesser extent.

[T-Bone]

Has Shea or Sheep ever divulged what their PT is like? I vaguely recall getting something when it was Shea/Haschel.

[T-Bone]

you hadn't realized that tomorrow is ELO if psyche is town?

calm down psyceh has decent odds of being wolf i think

There's like 10 posts like these so I'm gonna stop here and scroll down to see what else Shirou/Norwee do in this winning timeframe.

if psyche is town this game is fucking over rofl

that's kind of what i feel if both psyche/ali are town yeah

i'm the unique alternative to those as well atm it seems

any1 feeling confident enough about a scumread to stake their life on the line

you mean self voting tomorrow or just resigning yourself to die if wrong?

i'm not sure there's someone with enough points for a swap other than enchant, but also i wouldn't be sure on who to swap for in psyche's place if it's a "get scum or die" situation

p-edit:

i'm not confident enough on psyche to just deathtunnel like that but i do think it's already figuratively like that and either me or ali dies tomorrow if psyche flips town though

so is staking even necessary

well theres other people playing other than you dude

well yeah but a lot of people seen to have a problem with my slot or ali so i'm just saying what realistically would happen in that situation

then why did you challenge psyche in the first post of the dayphase

So this is probably the exchange that set Shirou and Norwee on the path to change the lim target? It's interesting how Shirou ties psyche and Alisae together as scum/town. I wonder if Shirou ever does that with any other players, perhaps in his Norwee townread? This is a little later as everyone has had time to discuss the game a bit and Shirou questions why Alisae challenged psyche right away. This feeds back into my theory that Shriou may have had Alisae pocketed. This is a little different from earlier in the phase where Shriou was trying to soft defend Alisae/get Alisae to justify their play.

if people trusted me to be town and trust my read on ali to be right i do feel like maybe

just maybe

i could hit scum in next two lims

but i know that's selfish and actually more responsibility that i can bear atm if i failed

i would do [psyche/cakez] if i had the shots

actually not sure cakez

could have better alternatives idk

I keep finding sets of posts that make me think psyche/cakez were both mislim targets. Shirou would do both of them, but then recants on Cakez. This looks like Shirou knows both slots are town to me.

I'm gonna skip down past this and past the Alisae replace out. There's no Shirou/Norwee interactions between these posts and then, and this all still happened later in the day after the Titus flip. Shirou posts a lot, I might just need to focus back in on when Shirou/Norwee were interacting (and if Norwee interacts with anyone else in the thread).

[T-Bone]

ur like 10 years late to concluding psyche is an innocent child

You're not paying attention or reading, I already said that I think psyche was deliberately a mislim target for Shirou, I'm just confirming as I read back through his and Norwee's ISO.

Like it's okay to reexamine your own reads.

[T-Bone]

I mean it's clear that they had a long conversation in the PT you confirmed it and believing that you could make up an intricate conversation between two players that aren't you is a little insane. (Though kudos if we find out post game you did just that)

I asked Gamma whether she thought they were capable. I'm sure fake PTs between scum have happened before and will happen again in the future. So I'm not questioning whether such a thing could exist.

[T-Bone]

I gotta say if you said those quotes Sheep quoted came from the scum PT id believe it.

[T-Bone]

Hammer Gamma before she posts again loud and clear

[T-Bone]

Spoiler: Shirou

im

so lost

StD i don't necessarily scum read you atm but at the same time can you stop hopping on wagons like that if you're town?

it's creepy that you always just hops and unhops of them as they gain momentum and all of those wagons seems to have been on town so far, including the one you're on now unfortunately

{gamma, cakez, shirou, psyche} my new solve

if you think i'm scum with psyche somehow can you vote him please?

do you think dunnstral's going to keep his vote there

well i don't know but i can try convincing him

do you think other people are going to vote there

if i start hard pushing it and accept the responsibility for this game, perhaps

idk if i'm mentally prepared rn though

no offense but StD reads feel so random and honestly bad that it feels kinda town man

Picking up where I left off last night here's Shirou attempting to...sort STD? We're still in this time period where I think Shirou felt he was winning, so these posts lacked anything. It looks to me like Shirou planned to "convince" STD, but it's like the least convincing attempt I've ever seen. Presumably if STD is scum he is also thinking about the winning the scumteam was doing after the Titus lim, but I think more skeptical that psyche would be the next lim?

Spoiler: StD

{gamma, cakez, shirou, psyche} my new solve

i have 0 faith in it

gamma is scum

{gamma, t-bone, haschel slot, ????}

i still have 0 faith

tbh i'm having a lot of trouble reading those slots and was hoping more flips would make those slots easier to read

i think shea is town because he feels like he's on a fucking island and i feel like scum!shea would have help getting his agenda across

but i don't know if his reads on alisae and shirou are correct. alisae has seemed really town all game and i feel like shirou just towned it up in my mind but i could be just a sucker.

i think flipping shirou is a high info flip but i'm not sure i want to do it today

alisae/dunn im most suspicious of because it just looks like alisae was setting erself up to look good by proclaiming the two flipped towny slots as town prior to flipping them. im conflicted because it seems too obvious to be simple TMI but if alisae is scum there's was a plan to use that clout to try and push mislims later in the game.

shirou is tough because he's lacking the fire he normally has but i feel it hardcore mafia fucks with your emotions so i'm not so sure it can't come from town or just be NAI in general. i saw it a little bit when he was pushing alisae but it's interesting he went 180 on that read. i don't really know what to make of it.

norwee has decided not to talk to me in the PT because he was pocketed hard in dance game i think and unwittingly revealed a bunch of information that got leaked to the scum PT or something like that. it's a bummer but it is what it is. i don't know what to think of norwee, i think he should have more fight in him to help solve the game if town but he feels pretty similar to white flag where he was town and for a fleeting moment i thought he could have been scum there.

as for them being superglued i think norwee and shirou were always going to pair up to some extend due to familiarity, the fact that alisae joined them is probably because of the pt. i don't really know what to make of this either to be honest

sorry this post is a whole lot of nothing

I had a hunch that StD might have been the first person to float out an alternative to the current psyche/shirou/alisae challenge so I grabbed some posts from this time. Yes, town!StD could also do this. I was specifically looking to see who started offering up alternatives and why since Norwee does shortly swap in myself and SirCakez. (I still need to check all the people who floated this idea. I remember Pooky did, but I don't remember who did what and when). This 4th post he put two paragraphs on Shirou and Norwee of not really committing on a read on either of them one way or another. With the heat on Shirou I would expect a scumbuddy to keep their options open. Norwee and Shirou did it to each other early on before circumstances forced them to play together in the thread. He basically reads Shea as town (which is not controversal, I don't remember the last person who has even called Shea scum) but then Shirou and Norwee are top of mind, are grouped together, and read the same way. It looks to me like StD knows the alignment of both players but feels like he has to say something about him. We saw in Dunn's PT dump that it appeared Shirou would coach Alisae..so I wonder if Shirou did the same to STD in the scum PT? Told STD to come up with reads on their slots and this is how STD chose to do it?

Spoiler: Norwee

I don’t trust Shirou to flip scum, i just don’t.
And i’m also wrestling with the fact that the Alisae repout seemed townie. Like Pooky said "why would Alisae replace out if things are going well for them" and they seemed to be so emotional i just don’t think it’s right.

what got leaked to the scum pt in dance game? cuz as far as i remember this never happened

This isn't really anything that most people would notice or care about. But it really bothered me that i was voicing suspicions about Alisae in the PT and Aristeia told Alisae this and they changed their behaviour so i wouldn't scumread them. I was malding at that.

Like i was being all like "Hehe, i got a secret scumread on Alisae don't tell anyone SHHH!" And Ari ran her mouth and then Alisae was like "Oh yeah, pocketing Norwee time. "

I think this is also evidence against Alisae being scum, as we are still in the stage where scum is winning the game, and its a top of mind thought for Norwee when making a read on Alisae. I still have both ISOs of Norwee and Shirou open and I'm trying to find pockets of Norwee posts but Shirou posts A LOT.

[T-Bone]

I hope the spoiler tags make my posts easier to read.

[T-Bone]

I don’t know why you’re so ok with this. It seems like an completely unnecesarry mislim to have you flip town just to get Psyche tommorow by "deadsheeping" you. Everyone thinks Psyche is scummy already. If it must be tied to Shirou’s alignment i’d rather we just lim Shirou if Psyche flips town. Alternatively i might just use the powrs at my disposal and switch Shirou away with some other choices and we lim Psyche then.

Also, VOTE: Psyche

Oh look here's Norwee telegraphing saving Shirou btw. I clicked in to see what may have triggered this. There's a lot of Shirou posts obviously.

Okay. I can agree.

Events are distraction.


Let's focus on blasting mafia. By they way. Can we send SirCakez?

you can swap in cakes any time you want my dude

These posts happened right before Norwee suggested he would swap in someone else for Shirou. I clicked back a few pages to see if this conversation was going on for long, and it didn't appear to be. The moment a suggestion is made Norwee chimes in and says he can do it. Obviously we know both Pooky and Enchant (and Cakez) are town here. There is a lot of Shirou posting in here with psyche and StD talking about limming psyche vs not limming psyche that was partly the dominant conversation.

Spoiler: Talking about lazer comp

If Enchant last player:

Shea > HC
HC > StD
StD > Norwe
Norwe > Cakez
Cakez > T-bone
T-bone > Pooky
Pooky > Gamma
Gamma > Psyche
Psyche > Shirou
Shirou > Dunnstral
Dunnstral > Shea

if Pooky last player:

Shea > HC
HC > StD
StD > Norwe
Norwe > Cakez
Cakez > T-bone
T-bone > Gamma
Gamma > Enchant
Enchant > Psyche
Psyche > Shirou
Shirou > Dunnstral
Dunnstral > Shea

I have feeling Gamma will shot me in the face

tbh i think they'll not follow the plan if we try to make you win bc they'll try to get revenge on you yeah

would be kinda funny sorry enchant

I feel a plan forces scum to act a certain way whereas chaos allows them to do whatever they want

Like coordination is one thing they have on us. Not saying my plan is perfect but it either gives money where we want or gives info as to who didn't want to do that for ??? reasons. Taking away their coordination seems good to me

This was the other conversation sort of going on. Shirou suggests a plan out of the blue. Everyone else but StD either ignores or like Enchant, says the plan won't be followed. I thought it was interesting StD was the only other player to voice support for having a plan for the lazer game. Especially since we didn't plan and Pooky won, a player we know to be town now. The last two rounds of the lazer game looked like it wasn't controlled by scum, unless Gamma is actually scum (since she and Pooky were left alone). I think this takes away a StD/Gamma scumteam for me a little bit? Not sure.

[T-Bone]

In theory scum!Dunn could just pull from the scum PT and claim it as the private PT if you're really looking for a plausible explanation. But I think I pulled enough interactions from Shirou that really paint that slot as town.

[T-Bone]

In theory scum!Dunn could just pull from the scum PT and claim it as the private PT if you're really looking for a plausible explanation. But I think I pulled enough interactions from Shirou that really paint that slot as town.

I dont think the scum PT would have so many discussions of reads and thread dynamics. At least, thats not what happens in any scum PT I've ever been in, usually its like "hey who should we push." "herp derp should we bus billy?" "oh fuck they have a cop"

Not much of the "hey sheas reads on norwee are really wrong and its bothering me emotionally"

I mean I don't think Dunn is scum at this point and that the simplest answer is the correct one.

I just remember reading the quote sheep took from Dunn's post and thinking "what if this was the scum PT?"

[T-Bone]

like 1 total post discussing this according to Dunn PT summary:

[start of day 3]
357 - Shirou: Is wavering on Psyche being mafia but will pretend to be confident if Alisae wants
358 - Alisae: Thinking about saving up money to send out a lot of messages
359 - Alisae: And disguising the messages as unwanted e-mails
360 - Shirou: Wants to save money for team swaps later
361 - Shirou: Thinks that would be funny if the town was in a good position
362 - Alisae: Responds to 347 saying that Psyche went after Alisae but was not satisfactory, and that Alisae is playing for money

Just this part.

[T-Bone]

I mean the answer to the "why would I do XXX" question is always "so I can later ask why would I do XXX".

[T-Bone]

What

[T-Bone]

Not unless you buy a swap.

[T-Bone]

I wanted to finish up my back read of what I've called winning time.

Spoiler: Posts

ok does any1 here actually think cakes is town

not really

cakez is cool and all but i like the gamestate feeling of psyche wagon

i think u need to be drunk to say this wagon has no resistance

i'll repeat i got to e-1 faster than psyche did yesterday

enchant doesn't want to "waste money" swapping though, so we either need to wait for mini-game to end for a cakez swap or norwee needs to do it

from norwee's reads though he would swap me, and if it's swapping psyche for cakez i'm not sure i agree on that

i think cakez is individually more scummy to me but i've rarely struggled this much to kill someone not loud and i think that's interesting

Here's more telegraphing to the Cakez swap by Shirou. There isn't much information to be gleaned at this point. This next post occurs shortly after, which as we know backfires and basically reveals Norwee and Shirou as scum together. (After we flipped them I mean)

Switch "Team Hyperpost Meta" with "Team Not Cheaters"

I think Norwee does have a really interesting back and forth with me. I'm not sure if they still felt they were winning immediately after the swap, or if because they felt Shirou might get limmed Norwee pulled this desperate play.

Spoiler: Norwee posts

I'd prefer swapping Shirou back in but I can back a Norwee vote.

Oh so you want Psyche limmed but not really because you actually want to lim me.
But you actually scumread Shirou and not Psyche.

Yeah, that’s town and logical.

How much y’all wanna bet on Psyche/Cakez.

Maybe T-Bone is scum too.
T-Bone/Psyche/Cakez?

Last scum prob someone pocketing me. I sus StD here but don’t wanna flip today.

If we say

Pooky

/Alisae/

Shirou

/TSQ/

Enchant

/Gamma are town.
That leaves

Cakez

/Psyche/

T-Bone

/StD/Sheep

I reiterate my desire to lim Shirou. This sets Norwee off into conceiving a scumteam. From psyche and Cakez, to including me, to adding StD and Sheep at the end. I know that I'm town, I know that Cakez is town. I think the evidence really posts to psyche slot as town. Why this inclusion of StD and Sheep? Is to to distance one or both of them? (Please note I bolded the flipped players their alignment, and just for my visualization I added myself as green without bold.)

Spoiler: More Norwee

Yeah logically speaking it makes more sense for Pooky’s team to win. It’s nonsensical to argue otherwise unless any of Pooky/Gamma were scum and TSQ was not.

3 people in the game have suggested i should be limmed.
3 people. 2 of those 3 strongly arguing.

T-Bone, Gamma, TSQ.

Psyche or Cakez could still be an wagon even with a swap. I’m not too worried.

Shirou surviving over me would basically mean my goal is finished even if i’m killed. By confirming Shirou town people will hopefullt to them and not the agency complainer.

I'm not sure why Norwee says Pooky/Gamma should win except to parrot popular sentiment. I guess since Norwee was arguing with Shea, Norwee couldn't suggest Shea should win. I think the second post is interesting. Norwee lists three players, myself, Shea, and Gamma, and says two people are arguing strongly for their lim. I assume that Norwee means Shea and I are strongly arguing for their lim because we were the two players Norwee was arguing with. So I'm not sure what Gamma had to do with this post. I quickly checked around this post and Gamma was not interacting with Norwee at all, she was interacting with Shea and Pooky about the lazer game. Finally Norwee implying that Shirou's reads are ones we should follow. I think Shriou's reads were similar, but that's something else I want to check.

By the way, who shot me?

[T-Bone]

I feel like I have frustratingly narrowed my pool down to three players, and I wasn't even considering one of them until recently, but I feel like I have confirmed to the best of my ability that Shea, Dunn, and Gimli are town.

[T-Bone]

I scrolled to the top of this page and just stared at three copies of Sheep's avatar for like 5 minutes while thinking about this game LOL now I can't unsee it

[T-Bone]

Ah which post is the 2nd post? The 2nd quote I have is Shirou telegraphing the Cakez move and doesn't mention anyone else.

[T-Bone]

In reading back I think it's a more serious post meant for the thread because it doesn't come randomly but in the middle of like a 10 post outburst from Norwee. Like I don't know if this is weak distancing with Gamma or just an attempt to discredit the three of us for doing nothing but arguing.

[T-Bone]

It would probably be worth trying to identify where Norwee loses confidence that they are surviving. I'll look back. Like it's clear after Norwee's flip that Shirou was trying to WIFOM with every post so I imagine Norwee had a similar strategy once he realized we had him.

[T-Bone]

I can see where you'd see that as a confident post meant for the scum PT

[T-Bone]

I'm agonizing over what should realistically be a 2 out of 3 chance.

[T-Bone]

It's a bit weird but I guess when the other 4 players have essentially the same three players in their PoE, and the scumteam is actually there, you gotta do what you gotta do. I don't know what this means and that's probably the point.

I think STD is in the scumteam regardless? Whether that's STD/Sheep or STD/Gamma. I view Sheep swapping as a self-preservation move more than anything else. Sheep could do that as either alignment, I think if you happen to be the one town in a PoE you feel the pressure to not let it be you too.

Vote: Save the Dragons

[T-Bone]

I don’t know why you’re so ok with this. It seems like an completely unnecesarry mislim to have you flip town just to get Psyche tommorow by "deadsheeping" you. Everyone thinks Psyche is scummy already. If it must be tied to Shirou’s alignment i’d rather we just lim Shirou if Psyche flips town. Alternatively i might just use the powrs at my disposal and switch Shirou away with some other choices and we lim Psyche then.

Also, VOTE: Psyche

I think this may be the point Norwee might have given up (IE the point where scum felt like maybe they weren't winning). This was Norwee's first post on a brand new day. Just because after this post comes the meltdown I described interspersed with posts being annoyed at Shea (plus the swap from Shirou to Cakez). The content basically stops here.

Spoiler: Posts

Shirou very townie Pooky still idk.
That's what i got out from previous pages.

Explain further what is townie about shirou

I'm basing this on my meta knowledge. We've been chatting on Discord for a long time so i feel like i'm probably the best judge of character on their alignment. Haven't been wrong a single time so far. (Well, minus our first game together back in like 2019)

I realize this will just make my position worse like every single time ever. But it’s really annoying how i try to get a footing and everyone susses me. Makes me empathic for Cakez. Like what has he done, nothing. But Gamma just thunderdomed them. I also hate the vibes Pooky and to an extent Shirou has created in this game. I’ll be honest, i didn’t really townread Shirou. I just think one of them must be scum and i’d much rather believe it’s Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

question for anyone: what's the over/under on how many pages before norwee admits this meta read on alisae is a fabrication too?

i gotta quote these one more time. do you know norwee literally never got around to explaining why they believed exactly one of shirou/pooky must be scum so intensely that they'd lie about a meta read? has anyone paid any attention at all to how the slot's reads on shirou/pooky progressed after this disclosure about their lie and inner conflict? for a summary, could look at the quotes in my last post

the unique good point you've is that norwee early read on me/pooky was indeed weird, but there was no reason for him to not just maintain it if he wanted to get on my good side imo so i'm not sure it's scum indicative for him, we do kinda treat each other as town until proven wrong in general

i also think norwee is a bit too calm at some points but this is just bullshit:

sheep hasn't read the thread yet. is this also norwee's excuse?

Sheep hasn't posted it's just a fact and HC has really low content on their ISO. I also don't have much of a read there it's rather PoE

i think you got in an awkward position right now where you're forced to push norwe bc your intended push on alisae doesn't quite work anymore due to the replace out

there's no scum motive in asserting titus was a null read after his flip. you've identified something you think is an inconsistency due to wording that sure i can see might be misleading, but connection to a scum win condition is not there.

also motive for norwee admitting to lying about read there was imo just to look townie based on the same reasoning you're providing. the reason i don't think it looks townie and that you're failing to engage w at all is that her volunteered justification for the lie is neither 1) credible (she had a pookie-xor-shirou read at that point and it was so important to resolve that she'd rather lie? but also not make any real push on pookie?), nor 2) consistent w her read progression from that point forward

also really? sat on this complaint about my titus post all this time bc of shyness? i am legit the wagon right now. of course you're gonna end up on mislim after mislim if you just sit on impressions w/o talking about them

like, you're trying to shade the town flip wagons again to look more reasonable

you were pushing ali tho and i think most people see with the replace out that she's prob town here

you were also voting a mislim apparently psyche, saying we've been unreasonable for voting titus/furtive is the same narrative shea is trying to spin here by saying scum is "controlling" the game with the town flips and that he needs to be listened to

jesus of course scum is controlling the game. the challenge system makes it even easier than normal. also are you really scumreading shea??

only saying this bc i may die but shirou is actually a natural follow-up for consideration if norwee flips as i expect
don't have much independently for a scumread though beyond articulable opinion that none of their posts clear them despite there being a lot of them
is someone gonna pretend omgus is a real tell too now

I have been posting for like 100 pages now on shirou being scum and I don't really feel like boiling it down into bullet points which I understand is crap because that's what I just asked you to do but I am extremely tired of shouting into the void and having people say oh maybe if you just do one more thing we'll consider listening to you and then not fucking listening to me.

Have you considered if maybe you're just wrong.

I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again but this is now the third or fourth time you've posted some variation of this rejoinder to me and its completely worthless. Explain why I'm wrong or shut the fuck up dude.

My kingdom to lim shirou or norwee over psyche.

what if the scum team was some bullshit like STD + Enchant + Sir Cakes + NorwegianBoy

So there's some early pressure against Norwee from psyche right around this time. Actually, a lot more than I even remember. Then of course some interactions with Shea I don't want to quote but obviously the relevant ones are these ones. So I think this might mean the reads and such Norwee gives later that I looked at in the previous post might be compromised. So the post where Norwee reads half the players town and scum, the post where he complains about Shea, Gamma, and I. Those did not come from a player who was confident in their position anymore, but from a player trying to plant some associatives.

I guess I keep finding reasons to basically cut my PoE to STD/Sheep/Gamma, so that's nice at least.

I think I've exhausted what I can out of this part of my read back. I'm finding the same evidence over and over. On one hand this is good for me, on the other hand if the scumteam had a more sophisticated plan then I'm committed to losing the game for us RIP

[T-Bone]

Is this Sheep being a hero or trying to survive? I cannot tell lololol

[T-Bone]

I too want this game to end ugh

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Save the Dragons

In case I need to vote again.

[T-Bone]

It seems like we all may be around now. What do you think?

[T-Bone]

I am shook a bit by STD flipping town. Less surprised by Dunn. I'm gonna look back again at Shirou/Norwee to see if I missed anything...or if we just got real unlucky in our pool because Sheep is just scum.

[T-Bone]

I'm not voting until I finish reading back what I want to check.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I checked. Fuck it.

[T-Bone]

Fuck I wanted that win so badly. The fact that I was townread so widely by nearly everyone for most of the game still blows my mind. GG all.

[T-Bone]

I think tbone played pretty masterfully. He wasn't ever remotely in my PoE.

Thank you.

I'm sorry to say when you read the scum PT later you were a big component of my strategy.

[T-Bone]

#saveus.shea

[T-Bone]

I think it was good design used very badly by members of the town. No one waited for challenges lolol. Meanwhile I'm out here spending no coins the entire game.

[T-Bone]

Anyways, thanks for playing everyone and much love for replacements. I don't think this was easy game to sub into with how many pages we got.

I was worried about if I was going to have to sub out gimli for a minute lol

ME TOO

[T-Bone]

You came at the King, Furtive. XD

[T-Bone]

ngl that surprised me, I almost killed you instead of Pooky cause I thought you'd turn on me at some point.

[T-Bone]

If it makes you feel better I thought you played the best Furtive and so I had to snipe you.

[T-Bone]

meanwhile in the scum pt: *eating steak while laughing maniacally at the game*

I don't think I felt good in this game until they decided to lim Enchant. Right after Shirou flipped our mislim pool was dangerously low...and then we were given a gift. Actually that we were able to hold off StD's mislim was kinda big because StD was always in the PoE thanks to Shirou.

Spoiler: Mod thoughts

to me gimli has one job to do and if he does it well enough last scum wins this 90% of the time. No matter everything else.
That job is: Don't make the last scum look bad

Or replace out. My biggest fear was another replacement. Like Dunn replacing in shifting momentum so much that it took away the clean sweep I thought we were set for. My plan for most of the game was to turn on Cakez in LiLo, so we needed just one other.

I don’t like being scum because i’m always so disappointed in myself for not playing better.

I used your posts to close out the game. It was crucial and you played great.

In fact if Psyche hadn't started hardbussing me without any of our consent in scum PT i think we would have gotten away with me surviving until endgame. Psyche putting attention to me is what caused me to be seriously considered as the lim, not TSQ's arguments.

I mean I was hard bussing Shirou because of an unforced error early, but that ended up working out well. Psyche doing that and your reaction too actually helped clear Gimli here in the end game.

i cant believe they actually killed cakez after norwee tried to throw him in front of a train what a clown car

Pretty good recovery by scum team
I should have tried harder to fight that but I just couldn't do it

So my master plan, and I don't know if this would have worked...but I was planning on saying Cakez scumslipped in our PT to try and force his lim at LiLo. (I was gonna say he bolded the daykill there or something) It's why I tried to keep Cakez around for so long even though we weren't really using the PT.

I still think it's t-bone, he's playing how I imagine scum would play this

I'd love to know what pinged you to say this! You were right of course but I hid what I was doing well, considering I was hard town read by nearly everyone.

I'm also glad no one ever asked me to prove I'm town by using the swap Enchant gave me. I was going to lie and say Enchant must not had enough coins to actually give it to me if pressed. Sheep made a reference to it late that had me O.O

[T-Bone]

I'm kinda lucky Sheep was a replacement, Sheep had a really good read on the game and I was concerned.

[T-Bone]

Maybe you should!

[T-Bone]

To be fair I was subtly cheerleading Enchant to do these things.

[T-Bone]

Think this game was good? Head to the 2023 Scummies nomination thread located here and nominate your favorite thing about this game! There are over a dozen categories! Maybe next year's winner happened here?