Micro 1069: Korina Runs Another GIM [Finale]

[MegAzumarill]

Hello all

[MegAzumarill]

Also I feel it would be wise to mention I am a negative utility role. Will disclose which one later today (it isn't miller)

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Furtiveglance
scum

[MegAzumarill]

I'd rather not claim before an actual massclaim
I also think massclaim (or just claiming in general) rn isn't the best idea. if it were Grander or Grandest Idea furtive would be right but roles are pure rng

Yeah I don't think a massclaim today is wise but when I claim it'll become evident why I needed to be public with it.

[MegAzumarill]

UNVOTE: Wait were you at E-1?

[MegAzumarill]

Oh you actually were lol

[MegAzumarill]

alright but what if i revoted

[MegAzumarill]

ez condemner win

[MegAzumarill]

We should definitely not do that

[MegAzumarill]

Since the only role with that is town it's a practical IC claim (yes it's possible to be scum but very unlikely)

[MegAzumarill]

Because scum knowing who that IC is is not good

[MegAzumarill]

I didn't realize there was an option where all scum are pirates and die n4. In that case yeah they probably should claim if they exist because if they don't doesn't no limming until they die win?

[MegAzumarill]

Ah

[MegAzumarill]

Probably don't lead with it then. We can use that info later today better if they do want to claim.

[MegAzumarill]

IC isn't much good informationwise if it just means we sort one less player. Better if people have already given reads on ic and we can read on those.

[MegAzumarill]

Actually scum would know which one is rolled right (cause they would be pirates)? So scum would just claim caribean?

[MegAzumarill]

Let's move past mechanical for now.

[MegAzumarill]

Gamma's entrance feels really weird to me, especially bringing up massclaim just feels like an odd move.

I'm liking Radrat's tone at this point although it's mostly been mechspec so far.

I don't think furtive's claim is confirming, although it's probably true.

Not much to say about other people

[MegAzumarill]

I'd rather not claim before an actual massclaim
I also think massclaim (or just claiming in general) rn isn't the best idea. if it were Grander or Grandest Idea furtive would be right but roles are pure rng

@Meg, idk, I don't really think Gamma here is being weird. Reading furtive in 17 as opening the door to a massclaim is fair, and responding to that is fair

VOTE: furtive
how about no? Last time I thought your opening was wack you were scum and I think your opening is wack again

@Gamma, what do you mean exactly by

wack

? I think the first post furtive made in Haunted was of significant different nature than the first post here

That's not really how I read it but I suppose that makes some sense. Your thoughts on other people?

[MegAzumarill]

It still feels off to me

[MegAzumarill]

I didn't realize there was an option where all scum are pirates and die n4. In that case yeah they probably should claim if they exist because if they don't doesn't no limming until they die win?

I very much don’t understand this plan
If this was a larger game maybe you’d have something but a micro will probably be over by n4.

Well furtive claimed to have a rb so if it was just scum dying if would be a kill during night 2 and 3which brings us down to 7 players into night 4 where we would win from scum dying.

But its everyone and not scum so it doesnt work

[MegAzumarill]

But like why would scum claim in the world where *they exclusively* die N4? Why wouldn’t they just play for a win?

Don't get what you are saying here. I wasn't assuming scum would claim?

[MegAzumarill]

Doesn't really matter i guess since the argument doesn't work in the first place

[MegAzumarill]

If that’s not what you meant then 74 doesn’t parse

Scum

wouldn't

have the role then.

[MegAzumarill]

So they actually would have to fakeclaim it to counter town trying that.

[MegAzumarill]

Don't think it matters much atp though.

[MegAzumarill]

I mean if it's a fakeclaim it's basically saying he was betting his life on there being 0 roles that either give or produce feedback at night so I'm liable to believe he is in fact a 1 shot global roleblocker.

[MegAzumarill]

That's as far as I'll follow the claim.

[MegAzumarill]

I just looked over the setup more closely
Can I just say “Savior” is such a jank name that does not fit the win condition?

Lawyer would be better to be honest. Sadly i think it's already tied up in usage atm.

[MegAzumarill]

I mean if it's a fakeclaim it's basically saying he was betting his life on there being 0 roles that either give or produce feedback at night so I'm liable to believe he is in fact a 1 shot global roleblocker.

being honest, don’t understand the above,, “betting his life on 0 feedback roles”,, you saying the existence of the role is only not valid if there is no point for it?? setup spec? first counterclaim; this is grand idea lol!!

just thinking,, whether true claim or not isn’t important,, the contents of the role is easy to excuse anyway
e.g “sorry my shot missed!” or “sorry was saving my shot”

in saying so, claiming early is not a big disadvantage for scum,, therefore stance of “towniness” is void)

Furtive says the use their shot

Literally anyone who received loud/announcing/investigative feedback/ neighborization messages ccs and furtive is limmed

[MegAzumarill]

4-8-15-16-23-42

What do these mean?

It's the passcode to the mafia chat obviously
VOTE: Aeronaut

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[MegAzumarill]

Feels different from citadel but mainly moving because I'm liking Aero's posta so far

[MegAzumarill]

Unfortunately I am incapable of scumreading snazzy shades

[MegAzumarill]

Unfortunately I am incapable of scumreading snazzy shades

Bad posts aren’t a scumtell?

I mean I've liked Aero's posts so far for town. Why do you think they've been bad?

[MegAzumarill]

Anyway I think I should get around to claiming soon (the neg utility thing is no joke)

I wanted to make sure we have some ample discussion before and aftee and it seems to be slowing down

[MegAzumarill]

I have heard no objections, so here goes:

I am a Town Compulsive Framer.

Which is about as negative as a utility can get.

The frames only last one night though so basically we just need to choose someone that cops wont be able to target that night.

Trackers/Watchers/Etc. can verify my visits at least, and if we do actually have a cop then they can verify me and if not I'm basically a VT.

I think it should be obvious why I needed to claim this today.

[MegAzumarill]

Thank you.

Actually, can you self-target Meg? If so, a Tracker can actually be converted into a proper cop on you (barring any alignment modifying roles before the framerate).

Cannot

[MegAzumarill]

Regardless of the answer to that though, I think you should pick your own target. Obviously you should also announce that target, but I don't trust doing it democratically in Grand Idea, where there's a non-zero chance of a minority Town.

If there'a a minority town my target is the least of our worries

[MegAzumarill]

And I'm also intwrested in hearing why people want certain people framed anyway

[MegAzumarill]

I am incredibly skeptical of Drew's claim. It feels like the sort of claim scum make when pressured to claim something and just deciding to latch onto my role.

If you're going to claim you can clear us both, I'd like a fullclaim.

[MegAzumarill]

Because just claiming to be able to clear 2 slots nebulously feels only beneficial to scum aiming their nk if true.

[MegAzumarill]

This is feeling like one of those games when scum are gonna lean on the randomness of their role

I love how you keep reaction testing lol.

I said I wanted to have fun with my role, and god dammit I am gonna have fun, even if it kills me.

I don't think I was RTing. I think your role is a lie Drew.

You don't even know what it is yet, how can it be a lie in your eyes?

I know you fished for it already, but not budging yet.

My role is 100% confirmable.

I can clear myself, kinda

I'm sensing inconsistency

[MegAzumarill]

Notably there can't be game ending jesters since the game is guaranteed to not end before day 2.

[MegAzumarill]

Probably not if qe're trying to resolve drew. I'll frame there assuming nothing major happens but will let yall know if I change my mind.

[MegAzumarill]

Reflected on this for a while.

If we are roleblocking tonight I think we should lim doctor drew still. The most information we can actually get on their role if it's a true claim is a clear in me.....in night 3.

Also this is a Korina GrandI game and drew claimed a version of neighborizer that doesn't really exist (although they retconned it later) Where their target would be inclined to believe their town and would be safer from lims. Smells like a possible if not likely CL. Even if not CL mafia neighborizer isn't unreasonable here as mafia actually wants to keep me alive.

[MegAzumarill]

The way the claim came about really didn't sit right with me, and I don't value keeping a scummy player alive for 2 elims to confirm they have a neighborizer role or not when we could be facing down elo day 3

[MegAzumarill]

Looker wagon has no resistance and I don't really see what there is to spot the momentum shift besides scum influence.

[MegAzumarill]

Cult leader

[MegAzumarill]

I can get into detail but I think a lot of what drew was saying makes more sense contextualized as knowing I would join their team after (plus wouldnt cult want a framer over say, a doctor or random town role, isn't that justifying who they'd want to recruit anyway?)

[MegAzumarill]

In the case we do elim drew, I'd need a new target

Furtive seems good then, if anyone gets a result on them we'd know they are evil regardless.

[MegAzumarill]

Scum doesn't care about cult, town does.

[MegAzumarill]

Cult can't recruit groupscum after all

[MegAzumarill]

No, but a growing faction of "Town" who are immune to doubting each other is a pretty big threat to scum's day plans.

Not really if scum have killing power.
So Mafia/Werewolf/Serial killer all stand to gain there while town is facing a -1 member +1 enemy which is basically 2 kills strong.

[MegAzumarill]

meg the smartest pokemon),, true that doc role draws too many parallels to cult,, however thinking, most likely possibilities are cult/town,, assuming scum faction exists, they don’t know which (will assume worst case scenario = town),, means both get shot by scum, is it worth it? (the theory is no)

Most likely possibilities really can't be determined, but if they could be it would look something like this:

There are werewolf, alien, serial killer, mafia, mod choice, and town neighborizers. (Probably more options as well)
Cult always have the ability to neighborize built into their faction as well.
All of these can easily fake being drew's role if true with basically perfect mimicry. Then there's chances of him not even being a neighborizer and just fakeclaiming in general since he doesn't have to produce results until N2 and then he'd be in a situation where he could be winning at that point, especially if there are pirates bloating the numbers of nontown into 1 group.

Also nothing about my role claim should have prompted his claim. Our roles don't interact. Why does town!drew out himself there for no reason. There is no actual justification of claiming it when i claimed other than he wanted to protect his slot by trying to produce a clear.

I think that the way Drew handled their claim is unlikely to come from town, and more likely to come from cult. (Mostly the part about me being able to confirm him, which we now know to be a

lie.

)

He explicitly lied about his role claim and backtracked when pushed on it. That is the

second

lie about the claim.

I also haven't been liking the rest of his play today for town outside of it, but this feels like it flips scum.

If you want to justify keeping alive Drew, justify it for play reasons. There is no mech reason to let the slot live over any other slot.

[MegAzumarill]

I am incredibly skeptical of Drew's claim. It feels like the sort of claim scum make when pressured to claim something and just deciding to latch onto my role.

If you're going to claim you can clear us both, I'd like a fullclaim.

Because just claiming to be able to clear 2 slots nebulously feels only beneficial to scum aiming their nk if true.

I can clear myself, kinda.

This is a lot of risk for a lot of reward. Best case scenario doesn't fully clear me, tbf(mechanically speaking at least)

And I am not latching onto your role, just making sure you are telling the full truth, it will be very clear why I would want to announce who I can clear.

Yes I know, requires some trust, but I am not investigative per se, this could all backfire on me if my instincts are incorrect here.

I will not full claim at this point because it doesn't benefit town, yes I am being vague on purpose.

[MegAzumarill]

A clear is explicitly for alignments.

[MegAzumarill]

If you can clear yourself, you are saying you can be proven as town with reasonable certainty.

[MegAzumarill]

And your role is at most partially confirmable, just the neighborizer portion. The other portion (weak) isn't without you being dead, and that's the only part that actually has a mechanical impact.

[MegAzumarill]

I strongly disagree that cult isn't a threat to scum, from their perspective a cult leader might as well be a masonizer, but regardless of that...

It is true that we lose a lot of utility from the weak mod by having it claimed. Assuming everything is true, we don't have a good way of knowing whether Drew was killed by scum or by weakness, so it isn't great for checking alignment. However, unless Drew is presently aligned with furtive, we don't really lose anything by giving it a try. If Drew's action goes through, cult or Town, it disproves furtive's claim. And if it doesn't go through, we're in the same situation as now except furtive's role is confirmed and we'll have a flip from a different elimination to reference against.

I guess this works for keeping him alive at least until day 2, but I don't think it's a lot of benefit as any feedback giving role does the same and nobody is really doubting Furtive's claim anyway.

You are wrong though because worse case scenario we flip a townie instead or mafia has something like a strongman/ascetic and we are just in a worse situation. Who would you suggest as scum if not Drew?

[MegAzumarill]

I'm mostly against the Looker wagon. I don't think it's natural and the defence of Drew for no actual play reasons seems scum motivated. Could be partners.

But noone seems to be against the wagon because drew is towny or has acted like town. That tells me I'm onto something here.

[MegAzumarill]

Bianco being able to cause 2 lims actually might be able to do something mechanical here

Bianco can you confirm if your role can cause 2 deaths this day phase?

[MegAzumarill]

Ok since the setup is guarenteed to not end before day 2, we now know there are at least 3 scum. (Because if your ability caused both to end that would be incorrect) 7v1v1, 7v2 and 8v1 are not possible

If there are at least 3 scum, then by that same logic, 2 deaths today into a townie night kill would be 3v3 mafia win. 6v3 is not possible and same for 4v5.

So we know it is multiball. This means we don't have pirates and we have an IC* somewhere.

6v2v1 or 5v2v2 - This looks like our most likely alignment distribution.

[MegAzumarill]

5v3v1 fails due to 1 dying to lim + 2 kills on town.

[MegAzumarill]

5v2v1v1 Works

[MegAzumarill]

Why?

[MegAzumarill]

Potential associative with soft defenses on Nono, looked kinda like it was trying to set up Gamma, then turning on Drew for not helping with Gamma.

This is incredibly unconvincing

[MegAzumarill]

Serial Killers have bulletproof by default as part of their vanilla role.

[MegAzumarill]

neat

[MegAzumarill]

Targeting furtive, furtive should RB

[MegAzumarill]

Well this is awkward since the only way we are in majority is if it's exactly 6:1:1:1 but that means no groupscum lol.

[MegAzumarill]

2:1:6 cult instead of mafia actually also works

[MegAzumarill]

Wait there was a kill that doesn't work

[MegAzumarill]

All serial killers are bp

[MegAzumarill]

Serial Killers have bulletproof by default as part of their vanilla role.

[MegAzumarill]

If not I think we might just be toast

[MegAzumarill]

2:1:6 cult instead of mafia actually also works

It does not. Cult recreuit sk, sk shoots CL, cultists forfeit

Sk limmed, CL dayvigged, - whatever killed TL kills last cultist is actually my thinking.

[MegAzumarill]

An evil majority right now is outstandingly the most likely though, just not of any faction in particular.

Do you have another dayvig shot?

[MegAzumarill]

Thanks.
So at least we probably don't have a cult.

Anyway, to try to make sense of what happened, @Drew, did you try to Neighborize anyone?

Yes, I hooded Meg.

And I am sure she can tell you she ain't in my hood.

But someone else is, I will let them explain how I guess.

I assume they were bussed by TL.

[MegAzumarill]

I can verify i am not in a hood.

[MegAzumarill]

F

[MegAzumarill]

In general actions will go through the night you are killed.

[MegAzumarill]

Furtiveglance is confirmed not town though now right?

[MegAzumarill]

That's still not town

[MegAzumarill]

Unblockable roleblocker would work.


@Korina What would happen if 2 roleblockers roleblocked each other?

[MegAzumarill]

Unblockable roleblocker would work.

@Korina What would happen if 2 roleblockers roleblocked each other?

[MegAzumarill]

confused!! massclaim, opinions only, yes/no?
agree due to bus driver, likely scum majority,, maybe we can "piece the puzzle" with massclaim?
anyway, nothing to report, for me

seems wise, although i actually am doubting scum majority here

I was thinking 4 total scum would be 3/3 today but 7 is alive not 6 (i dunno why i thought there was 6, maybe my mind was taking looker's sk kill into account)

So we very much could be in PELO.

[MegAzumarill]

Cant be 2 groupscum because game couldve already been over

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Furtiveglance

[MegAzumarill]

Press X to doubt.

[MegAzumarill]

If i am mafia, and i am driven with Player B, anything that happens to player b instead happens to me and vice versa.

If I try to kill player B, then that gets redirected to me and I'd die.

[MegAzumarill]

Not anymore than him being town.

Jester lims are usually above average lims anyway, and it's not going to be game-ending.

[MegAzumarill]

I think we either lim furtive here as someone who has been confirmed to be lying about there role (You don't just claim page 2 and forget your night action, that's frankly a ridiculous claim)

Or we can massclaim and ain for someone we think less likely to be 3p

[MegAzumarill]

oi im targeting aero btw

[MegAzumarill]

I mean jester would've self hammered

[MegAzumarill]

Alternatively the claim was also a globally useful role by fending off a nk which works as a swcond motive for a fakeclaim since it basically guaranteed a night of survival.

[MegAzumarill]

The other option would possibly be a drew lim but that's entirely based on my assertion they could be cult leader (and have maj tomorrow with 3 people) but we know more scum than just cult exist anyway

[MegAzumarill]

Perhaps.
UNVOTE:

I think I want more discussion today but I'm still in support of a furtive lim.

[MegAzumarill]

It would be impossible for the cult to forfeit before day 2 in that scenario then

[MegAzumarill]

plus it could be solo mafia not an sk

[MegAzumarill]

Biggest guess is so that they could confirm their role by using it on the only role claim that gave feedback

[MegAzumarill]

Mod Notes: I still can't spell Meg's name for the life of me, so until Meg revotes someone, I will do everything in my power to not have to spell Meg's name.

[MegAzumarill]

Did you not confirm you weren't one shot only claiming that to mislead scum when pressed?

That's a verifiable scumslip right there
VOTE: Drew

[MegAzumarill]

none here

[MegAzumarill]

Wait furtive was town :p

[MegAzumarill]

Though also... Wouldn't dayvigging Drew and eliminating Looker have ended the game N1 after I shot?

Yes

[MegAzumarill]

I mean there really isn't much town did wrong (besides not global rbing i guess)
No mislims, no vig shots, just the scums were caught in the wrong order

[MegAzumarill]

no redact