Open 103 (Even/Odd C9): Schoolyard Vengence! Over before 712

[zachattack]

Vote Stef

She's having a horrible hair day.

[zachattack]

I would have unvoted at this point anyways if Stef was at L-1, I don't think HE (sorry about that) had anything to worry about. As it stands I like fhqagjkauayonhldk's vote to start a bandwagon and see what discussion we can get out of it, but I think tinvision would be a better target since he's posted nothing but a vote so...

unvote
Vote: -Tinvision-

[zachattack]

I changed my vote because Stef was talking in the thread anyways so I figured a bandwagon on him served no purpose. Tin had only posted two words so I moved my vote to him. I think early bandwagon's are best used to get people talking, so I went from a player who was involved in the thread to a player that wasn't.

[zachattack]

@ Farside
Post 42 was an explanation of my vote in Post 25. Someone placed a vote on Stef suggesting a bandwagon. I like the idea of small bandwagons to get people talking, but Stef clearly didn't need an incentive to post more, and at the time Tinvision and Atlas had contributed nothing. Atlas is awol in another game we're in together as well so I assumed he wouldn't see my vote anyways, so Tinvision was the better idea.

I wasn't really concerned about Stefs vote hopping, he seemed to be trying to get inactive's to post, similar to my vote on Tinvision. That's why I didn't comment on it. I would like to know what purpose he thinks the random vote phase has and why we should keep it going longer than necessary. I find it weird that he commented on fhq calling his vote OMGUS and asking about his vote hopping in post 43, but ignored tinny posting nearly exactly the same thing.

Zazie's throwing a lot of suspicion on Stef, and although I can see how someone could find stef hopping around unhelpful, I think it's a big leap from Stefs not helping the town during the random vote stage to Stef is scum.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Atlas when/if he shows up, and would like to see more of Fhq.

[zachattack]

Zazie, how am I trying to use you as a scapegoat? I do want to see Stef answer the questions you asked him, especially why he feels the random vote stage should go on longer than necessary, and why when Fhq and TV had the same reaction to your discussion that he targeted Fhg and ignored TV. However, I think your reaching a lot, I don't think his vote hopping was that big of a deal. Once he defended himself you said you didn't have a case on him in the beginning and were starting with something little, but you have one now. It feels like you backed him into a corner, and would have said that no matter how he defended himself. Maybe I'm being naive, but Stef does not seem that scummy to me. I would wait for a bigger slip than 'I think the random vote stage has a purpose' to put so much pressure on a player in a game where it only takes two townies to mislynch, and a townie dead today means we have to lynch right or lose tomorrow.

[zachattack]

Hi. Any questions?

I'd like to hear MafiaSSK's opinion on the stef argument (but knowing him, I probably won't get it.)

Is SSK always like this? Surely he has to have some opinion on what's happened so far. He's been on the forum since his any questions post, but hasn't come into this thread. Atlas didn't post any content when he was around either so we have absolutely nothing on him. Since he's been online, I'm assuming he's checking the thread and choosing not to post anything. I don't like this, so I'm going to

unvote
vote MafiaSSK

Hopefully he sees this and feels like responding.

I'm also looking for Stef to answer the questions asked of him, since his trip was canceled. I think a lot of people are holding off waiting for this and that's why there's been so little activity lately.

[zachattack]

@Zach:

I would like to know what purpose he thinks the random vote phase has and why we should keep it going longer than necessary.

the RVS has the purpose of practically starting the game obviously. People start posting random crap until some1 posts the first real scummy post and he gets called on it. There was nothing scummy yet to jump on. ZazieR jumped on .. nothing without having anything to go on. That's why i think she took us out of the RVS too quickly before we could observe any possible connections or enough possibly scummy things. You saying that we should keep it going longer than necessary is a misrep. I never said that.

I find it weird that he commented on fhq calling his vote OMGUS and asking about his vote hopping in post 43, but ignored tinny posting nearly exactly the same thing.

Ehm.. TV posted "Not entirely at ease with Stef's jumping around but in this case he's pointed a finger where it ought to go." How is this the same thing with what fhq said? It's like comparing a rabbit to a cow. Doesn't fit

I agree that Zazie jumped on very little, and she's been pretty aggressive in her attacks against you with very little to go on, but I don't see how her pulling us out of the RVS hurt in anyway. I think we're more likely to see connections and scummy things when we discuss something of substance then we are when we're just placing random votes. As for the TV fhq comparison, although I was referring to the post where TV FOSed you and not the one where he FOSed Atlas, you are right. I didn't look back at the posts when I said TV posted the same thing about you OMGUSing Zazie. They did post very similar thoughts on your vote hopping during the RVS, but TV never mentioned your vote on Zazie, as the post I was talking about came before you changed your vote.

We still have absolutely no content from Atlas/SSK, which is ridiculous at this point. Several players have pointed out this is his normal playstyle, but I would think he would at least post something. Since no one else is standing out to me as scummy at this point, I'm leaving my vote on him.

[zachattack]

God this game is dead, I wish there was something to go on. I'll do another reread later tonight, maybe I'll see something I missed earlier, right now though I think SSK is the best bet. I don't have a read on anyone, so he's just as likely to be mafia as the rest of you, and unlike everyone else, he's not going to help us if he's town.

[zachattack]

unvote

It doesn't make sense to keep my vote on kmd, it was on mafia because I have no strong suspicions and with the deadline it made sense to lynch the player who wasn't going to help us no matter his alignment.

I'll be back later today with analysis.

[zachattack]

Better late than never. I'm going to give my opinion on every player as it stands now, in no paritcular order.

Starting with KMD, his post where he voted for FHQ was a good start, however, I'm still completely neutral on him. I won't hold him accountable for Atlas and Mafia's inactivity, and he did provide some good analysis, so I'm not too worried about him today.

I've had a bad feeling about TV all game.

Anyway, I'll give the (obviously omgusy) FOS Stef for bouncing his vote around so much. It's still early yet, so it's not worth a vote.

I don't like when people describe their own actions as OMGUS. It just gives me a feeling like they're trying to come up with fake justification for their vote, or in this case an FOS. And why is it bad to vote early? You still had a random vote on someone. Stef was in no danger of being lynched. I don't trust players who are afraid to vote for their suspicions, and FOS instead. It feels like he's testing the waters, without actually committing to anything he could be called out on later. Shortly after, he FOSed Atlas, again choosing not to vote.

His thoughts on the Zazie Stef argument felt weird to me. Saying Zazie's aggressiveness made him feel uneasy, but later saying in the same post that he felt quite protown about her after she wrote "EBWOP What do you think of Fhq right now?" just seemed strange to me. It seemed like he felt the momentum was against Stef, but was leaving himself an opening in case it shifted to Zazie. He also called Stef overdefensive, which I don't think is fair, if someone is being questioned and accused, of course they're going to answer the accusations, unless they have something to hide.

Farside's been under the radar a little bit, but he makes sense in his posts, his analysis seems genuine, and he's the player that I feel the best about so far.

I didn't like FHQ's unvote early on. It looked like he was hoping for a quick pile on stef and when I changed my vote to avoid that he backtracked, and FOSed TV, who at that point had done nothing except not be around on Thanksgiving. I don't like that he was suspicious of Stef, but never voted, again, players who don't vote their suspicions bother me.

I have to go, so I can't go in depth on Stef and Zazie, I'll do them later. Quickly, I find them both more suspicious then Farside, less than FHQ or TV. TV has been lurking, FHQ has at least contributed his opinions and suspicions.

Vote: TV

[zachattack]

I'm content with my vote on TV going into the deadline, the only other player who I've had any suspicion of is FHQ, and he's been replaced. I would like to see a defense from TV before the day ends however.

[zachattack]

Yay! I found the forum again thanks to the prod! Hopefully TV does the same before we get a new deadline.

[zachattack]

unvote

Don't want someone to accidentally hammer the replacement.
What about Stef? Why would he respond to the prod but not post in the thread?

[zachattack]

If the deadline is tomorrow I'm going to put my vote back.

Vote:Tinvision

I wish he had gotten replaced but now we just have to hope for the best.

[zachattack]

@Rogue: I think the only thing is if the cop received a guilty he should claim. If he received an innocent I say not to say a word unless he knows the person is innocent.

What does that last sentence mean? If he got an innocent wouldn't he know the person was innocent? Do you mean not to say anything unless it looks like we're going to lynch an innocent? If so I agree.

[zachattack]

When I saw Z reply to something, I kept thinking "yeah that's what I'd like to say I'd do."

Vote: Zach - He's the scummiest of a pro-town looking lot.

Umm what?
We are at lylo. If you are not scum I can be quick hammered and we lose. Therefore, there are two possible scenarios. In one, you're town, we've already lost, and my vote doesn't matter. In the other you are scum.

Vote: Empking

[zachattack]

When I saw Z reply to something, I kept thinking "yeah that's what I'd like to say I'd do."

What does this mean? I have no idea what you're trying to say here, or how it makes me scum.

Zazie hasn't even posted since day 2 started and you want to guess at scum? Shouldn't we get everyone in here so we can make a rational decision, instead of guessing? I don't think a townie would be so reckless with his vote in this situation.

[zachattack]

It's not OMGUS. If emp is town, his vote allows the mafia to hammer me, and it doesn't matter where my vote is. If everyone shows up to the thread, and me and emp are both still alive, emp is scum. I see no logical reason not to have my vote on him. If he unvotes, then I will follow suit because we need to actually have discussion at lylo before anyone does anything rash. But as long as his vote is on me, it makes no sense for me to do anything but vote for him.

[zachattack]

unvote

[zachattack]

Empking, why are you suspicious of me? You should probably clarify something like that.

When me and Empking had votes on each other for 48 hours, the mafia would have likely speedlynched one of us if it was possible. Because that didn't happen, I'm ruling out the possibility that Farside and Rogue are mafia together, which means at least one of Empking and Zazie has to be scum.

[zachattack]

Like I said earlier, farside and RS are very unlikely to be scum together. Which means at least one of emp or caboose is. If we get to deadline with no solid discussion I will vote for one of them and hope for the best. However we have over a week, we should be able to get something going. Caboose, what are your thoughts thus far?

[zachattack]

I'm not declaring farside or RS innocent. But based on the amount of time me and Empking had votes on each other, I cannot see how we would have both survived had Farside and RS been mafia together. One of them could still be mafia, but there is no way both of them are, which means at least one of you and Empking has to be.

[zachattack]

If no one counterclaims we win.
I'm the cop.
Farside is town.

Vote: Empking

[zachattack]

unvote

Actually, I'll wait for everyone else to claim to make sure Caboose isn't pulling a fast one. But I think this is wrapped up.

[zachattack]

I know farside is pro-town. If he counterclaims doc then you are guaranteed scum. If Rogue or Empking counterclaim doc I'll have to think about it. You claiming doc first makes me believe you are legit though.

[zachattack]

It seems like an easy enough scenario to deal with. I'll elaborate once everyone claims.

[zachattack]

EBWOP

Farside is a "she."
This is true, but if she does claim doc, and you are telling the truth, I'll eat my shoe.

Obviously you would say that if you were town or scum. I'm 90% certain this won't come up though, as at this point I'm pretty sure Emp and Rogue are our mafia. However I don't want to take any unnecessary risks. We can afford to wait for everyone to claim.

And apologies for the mixup farside.

[zachattack]

Well...

Vote: Empking

This should be pretty cut and dry.

[zachattack]

You investigated the dead player. That's a remarkably convenient way to say you didn't investigate anyone. Why wouldn't you say that when you fakeclaimed cop in the first place?

[zachattack]

If no one counterclaims we win.
I'm the cop.
Farside is town.

Vote: Empking

I investigated you because me and you lead the bandwagon on TV, and he turned up town. This quote specifically gave me pause.

Yay!! Can we lynch TV now?

Stef vs. Zazie seemed like town on town to me, Rogue didn't hop on the TV bandwagon, and KMD did so reluctantly. You seemed like the most likely scum.

[zachattack]

Farside
Read the part I quoted. Or read my post where I claimed cop and said I investigated Farside. Or read the discussion me and Caboose had before you came in and fakeclaimed.

[zachattack]

Yes

[zachattack]

Yay!

[zachattack]

Emp, now that the games done, why did you vote me with no reason earlier? I thought you investigated me, and that's how I knew you were the cop and not farside.

[zachattack]

Yep, since my scumpartner was AWOL I had to get farsides vote. If he had been the cop I was done.

[zachattack]

The original plan was to get farside lynched. Since he tried to get kmd and tv lynched at deadlines it looks bad on him when they are both town. Plus, he was the only player who expressed suspicion of fhg/rogue. Your vote for me changed my plans and made me realize the best chance of winning was with farside.

[zachattack]

I don't know how much it would have helped. I would have bussed, and then the endgame would have been me, farside and emp, and farside would still have to pick between the cop claims.

Why'd you kill KMD.

Potential frame on farside, plus being the only player to notice something off about fhq/rogue.