Open 875 - The Kindgom of Zeal: The Queens Chosen - GAME OVER

[Gimli]

i mean its very fcking convenient claim esp when that suits ranger's fear of missing out pr equity

[Gimli]

so my first instinct is that its bullshit

[Gimli]

std do you think its lld?

[Gimli]

i think lld is a possibility

how more likely is kawa mafia after the n5 claim?

[Gimli]

also do you think lld/rr is ever a thing after today? im thinking probably no

[Gimli]

ill do the correct town play for once

VOTE: kawa

everyone follow me to victory

flip lld tomorrow thx

[Gimli]

if kawa is the actual n5 doc then thats okay im fine losing the game to that

[Gimli]

its super interesting how what ranger wants which is like thinly mechanical best play is being brute forced over FLIPPING THE SCUMMIEST SLOT which imho its kawa

i ask y'all again whats more likely here, that kawa is the n5 doctor or that kawa is simply mafia lying

this claim is brutal evidence that kawa is scum no?

[Gimli]

why do people keep saying "the" there could be multiple there could be none

I mean like the entity n5 doc

yes there could be more ig

[Gimli]

i think the evidence for kawa scum, while circumstancial, is also the best thing we have rn imo.

lets consider the odds of us having a n5 doc at all. that wasn't important on d1 ig, but its important now since there's a claim

if kawa is scum he should always be claiming n5 doc here. dont you guys realise this? the odds of him being scum fakeclaiming to protect himself are much higher than him telling the truth.

[Gimli]

idk lld if you're town can you fking read me for once

[Gimli]

why wouldnt scum fakeclaim n5 doc?

[Gimli]

UNVOTE:

alright.

[Gimli]

I can't really think of scum teams that don't contain kawaii

[Gimli]

I think its kawa/lld

she does have a point maybe that kawa didn't need to claim doc as scum cause there wasnt momentum on him but i don't think his posting indicated that he felt that? he went like 'im being sussed so i decided to claim'

[Gimli]

RR has been making a lot of sense to me and I have a hard time admitting that he'd do the cop gambit as scum when his partner is kawa

[Gimli]

Gimli you like logic right?

Want to do a logic puzzle with me?

logic is not my forte

[Gimli]

4

[Gimli]

ah yeah we follow ranger i get that

[Gimli]

youre trying to make me look foolish

[Gimli]

all I get from you is condescending interactions

the problem is that you're using it to beat up what I think is likely a correct solve

idk its really effective I've no motivation to argue

that was @lld

[Gimli]

do you think im more likely scum than kawa though? you were scumcasing him earlier today

[Gimli]

While I believe it wasn't a great idea because of the potential for scum to take advantage of it...

Of course, in hindsight it doesn't look good because you fake claimed cop and ruined my action. And I guess I made the POE for last cop smaller. We had a very small chance of still having a living cop at that point anyway...

Is this all you're clearing me for? I suppose I could be gambitting as mafia there.

[Gimli]

Fmpov there's at least one mafia defending Kawa here and I think that's telling. If both mafia are not Kawa then I think theyd at least jump on my push. Even std that's actively scumreading the slot doesn't wanna flip the n5 doctor.

[Gimli]

The resistance to Kawa is fairly blatant imo

[Gimli]

Another thing that's kinda weird is that y'all townreading me still and have you seen my scum game? It's pretty good

Which makes me feel, incidentally, that amongst my townreads there is at least a pocket attempt

[Gimli]

Lld hasn't pushed me since D1? But I remember distinctively that she felt I was first scum with ranger, and then scum regardless of ranger cause my ranger defense was pretty bad

That was never brought up again by lld

Std sussed me a bit in the beginning of D1 also I think with the lld case. He's been treating me as a townie IG ever since

And rat... Well I think rats reasoning for clearing me is a little weak but I've been resonating with his posting this gameday the hardest

[Gimli]

Incidentally I dont think rr is scum with Kawa precisely because of the Gambit, It Just wouldnt happen if your teammate is highly poed down slot

[Gimli]

Possible scum teams based off all I'm saying

(RR, std)
(Std, Kawa)
(Lld, Kawa)

Of course RR/lld is an unlikely pair after this gameday

[Gimli]

Possible scum teams based off all I'm saying

(RR, std)
(Std, Kawa)
(Lld, Kawa)

Of course RR/lld is an unlikely pair after this gameday

@ranger: does this solve make sense to you?

[Gimli]

what do you mean by 'clear'

[Gimli]

ah

I mean I do feel like your lack of perception around the likelihood of kawa being mafia isnt great, so to me there's a perspective problem with it. you should have a working POE implied in the things you're posting and im puzzled by your kawa defence

I think ranger has a point

[Gimli]

std do you have like possible team combinations rn? I think laying it out would be great for me to parse you and for you to parse the game out as well maybe

[Gimli]

well we're waiting.gif

[Gimli]

I'm commuting home and will read when I'm there

[Gimli]

VOTE: radical rat

[Gimli]

Or maybe I wont

[Gimli]

Unless Lld lied and is a n5 doc we got auto yes

[Gimli]

It was Gimli/Kawaii wasn't it?

i think so, yes.

Yeah

[Gimli]

I had a plan if I ended up flipped instead of kawa

and ofc the associatives between me and kawa are really good for spewing the other town so yeah I think we'd win even if you flipped one of us this gameday

gg all, if the rand screwed scum team so hard that LLD is a n5 doc then we'll look silly for hammering and outing ourselves but eh

[Gimli]

the plan would be kawa holsters and then claims to have saved LLD

you'd play kawa/lld/std/rr and hardly the elim would go to kawa in these circumstances

not sure if he'd follow but it'd be interesting to see it play out

[Gimli]

yeah I think it was very in the bag

btw I know this isn't officially postgame but MASSIVE shout out to cephrir for turning a L into a W by convincing everyone he was town and furtive was scum on d2

(also I'm sorry furtive)

[Gimli]

GG all, thank you LavosCore for modding!

I guess outing just to get the hammer didn't look good, but Kawa was pretty much never around and I thought the only realistic thing we could do was coordinate on the flip. worked out fine since the only possible n5 doc was std, unless LLD had lied about doccing n4, which we thought was unlikely.

[Gimli]

I thought this setup is really tilted in town's favour, fwiw. we just got lucky and flipped/NKed every single invest in the game. town had no reason not to trust furtive on d2, which was the key gameday that got us a chance to win, and there are many ways in which town can have mechanical clears and close down on correct POEs from very early in the game. scum needs to play a perfect game from a NK and fakeclaiming standpoint to really mess things up. this felt like an uphill battle since very early on.

[Gimli]

the ridiculous luck of the enchant nightkill going in our favor when to all rights it looked like a terrible move

I call it instinct! lmao

thank you for d2 you're a beast

[Gimli]

Balance-wise, I think the biggest issue with the setup is that until late game there's no real way to properly handle claims.

The only potential for a counterclaim before we reach 5/6 claims of the same role is if two cops disagree on a result, or one guilties the other, but due to the nature of everyone being one shot on a specific day, and scum knowing the ratios ahead of time, it's not likely to really happen that way.

I think a strat that could work reasonably well is just a D1 massclaim? Locking scum into claims early so they can't adjust based on flips, and eliminating within whichever role has too many claims to boost odds of hitting scum would probably go better than what happened here.

I've already talked about how badly I messed up here, so I guess on the positive side... I'm glad I didn't end up flipping my townread on StD. So I get to claim I was right on at least one person

massclaim should definitely be on the table from d2 forward IMO. it ties the game up nicely in town's favour and makes manipulating the mechanics harder for scum. the way we played, I could openhunt cops (which is what I tried to do by hardclaiming n3 doc) and make flipping scum look bad from mechanics standpoint (take kawa's and ceph's claims, for instance).

also I think this only looked scumsided because you had six cops and only got two checks and then killed thes cops when you got those checks. that was a mix of town misplaying and scum taking advantage and, in cephrir's case, making THE MOST out of an imbalanced position having a red check against him on d2.