Demon Slayer - Kimetsu no Yaiba (Game over)

[IceDragon70]

Gonna make a P1 readlist in Ranger's style:

{GuyInFreezer} - slight townlean
{Blue, Black, Fire} - null
{Enchant, Furtive} - slight scumlean

Tiers ordered from towniest to scummiest inside each tier

[IceDragon70]

VOTE: Furtive

[IceDragon70]

Noooo Black you lost a game!!! Noooooo!

[IceDragon70]

(refering to her sig)

[IceDragon70]

So now you are alt-hunting? Pretty scummy if you ask me!

However, that slip about wrong PT clearly confirms you are masons with clickwork.

UNVOTE: Furtive

But I am willing to bet I will vote hin again in the next 24 hours.

Pedit: I don't need to wait 24 hours. Furtive caused Black to lose, that's reason enough to vote!

VOTE: Furtive

[IceDragon70]

@Black, are you a demon?

I actually think that claiming human/demon will only be useful for town on D2, we shouldn't be doing it now.

[IceDragon70]

Lol I honestly scumread Furtive but I am being a bit jocular in my approach to it.

[IceDragon70]

Yeah I guess it was extremely unclear from my posting though.
The vote on Furtive is as serious as it gets on P2, I guess.

[IceDragon70]

My read on Furtive is a gutread, I can't explain it. The alt thing is not

really

scummy but it's definitely not helping.

What I will say though is that in reading Furtive's other games I was scumreading then exactly twice, and they were scum both times, so I feel pretty confident in my gutreads on Furtive.

[IceDragon70]

Though on reread of their ISO I think they act more closely to their town game than their scum game, so I'mma UNVOTE: Furtive yet again.

[IceDragon70]

It's not a good look to make a serious vote and immediately back down once questioned.

Guess I'll be holding you at swordpoint for a while.

VOTE: Ice

Enjoy!
FWIW the questioning made me re-evaluate it and I realized that it was a bad vote.

[IceDragon70]

And a bad read

[IceDragon70]

I have an illegal hard page 3 townread on furtiv.
What do

Well you can vote me instead

Oh wait you already doing that :sadsmile:

[IceDragon70]

What game in particular caused you to change your mind?

Wdym what game?
I reread his ISO this game after you questioned me and changed my mind.

[IceDragon70]

Or not you, the other guy

[IceDragon70]

Towngame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90503&user_select%5B%5D=36433

Scumgame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90542&user_select%5B%5D=36433

BTW I didn't say that Furtive is a lock town read as you are implying, just that I re-evaluated and I can't say they are as scummy as I initially thought.

[IceDragon70]

Towngame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90503&user_select%5B%5D=36433

Scumgame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90542&user_select%5B%5D=36433

BTW I didn't say that Furtive is a lock town read as you are implying, just that I re-evaluated and I can't say they are as scummy as I initially thought.

Second game is a third party not mafia game. I consider this to be fake news.

They were 100% scum

[IceDragon70]

Towngame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90503&user_select%5B%5D=36433

Scumgame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90542&user_select%5B%5D=36433

BTW I didn't say that Furtive is a lock town read as you are implying, just that I re-evaluated and I can't say they are as scummy as I initially thought.

Is that the first town game you had in mind when you were re-evaluating?

IDK honestly I thought I've read more games by furtive but couldn't quickly find any of them. I like the tone of your questioning, but I am unwilling to go look in the back of my mind and spend an hour locating every single furtive game I've read just to explain why I don't scumread furtive as hard as I did before.

[IceDragon70]

And I think it's time to move on.

[IceDragon70]

Towngame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90503&user_select%5B%5D=36433

Scumgame:

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90542&user_select%5B%5D=36433

BTW I didn't say that Furtive is a lock town read as you are implying, just that I re-evaluated and I can't say they are as scummy as I initially thought.

Is that the first town game you had in mind when you were re-evaluating?

IDK honestly I thought I've read more games by furtive but couldn't quickly find any of them. I like the tone of your questioning, but I am unwilling to go look in the back of my mind and spend an hour locating every single furtive game I've read just to explain why I don't scumread furtive as hard as I did before.

Just to clarify: I didn't think of any particular game at any point. So there wasn't a "first town game

had in mind", as you put it. I am reading furtive based on general vibes here, and general vibes in their other games.

[IceDragon70]

fuck I was trying to write I in brackets but instead it became formatting. How do I fix this?

[IceDragon70]

fuck I was trying to write I in brackets but instead it became formatting. How do I fix this?

You can’t iirc.

Also in your pov what is town furtive like vs scum furtive

Well fml.

Scum Furtive says random things in RVS and is actually cautious/reserved overall but ig tries to compensate for it with being random.
Town Furtive says random things as well, but in a more openly flippant way, not really caring about what they say.

And obviously as the game progresses town furtive makes a much more genuine effort to solve and provide reads, whereas scum furtive would have a scumread for the sake of having a scumread.

So these are the things to watch out for.

[IceDragon70]

Feelin' frosty

Same!

[IceDragon70]

{IceDragon70}
{GuyInFreezer}
{furtiveglance}
{Enchant, Pink Ball, Doctor Drew}
{Firebringer, Klickwork}
{hebichan}
{BlueSnakelet}
{Black}

p3

I just KNEW Ranger was gonna townread me, lol.

[IceDragon70]

Cool, Ranger is town and got good reads this will be easy

Hey agreed, though I though question back being so low. Ranger, what's the reasoning for that? I actually think Blue might be the better vote candidate here.

[IceDragon70]

everything else is like dart throwing and she put me in townie.

Well you're right about the dart throwing, but actually, nobody is town until furtiveglance in that readslist; nobody a scumread until BlueSnakelet. Even those tiers are weakly so.

{IceDragon70}
{GuyInFreezer}
{furtiveglance, Firebringer}
{Pink Ball, Doctor Drew}
{Enchant}
{Klickwork}
{BlueSnakelet}
{hebichan}
{Black}

Why BlueSnakelet?

She's just saying that Blue and below are weak scumreads, whereas the ones between blue and furtive are presumably null.

[IceDragon70]

VOTE: Blue

[IceDragon70]

IceDragon, relying on meta reads about RVS behavior is a strange course of action, but a welcomed one for sure

Glad you like it, and I lol'd hard for no reason while reading your post.

[IceDragon70]

I'm feeling scaley, how bout you?

Can't relate (assuming this was aimed at me).

[IceDragon70]

Cool, Ranger is town and got good reads this will be easy

Hey agreed, though I do question Black being so low. Ranger, what's the reasoning for that? I actually think Blue might be the better vote candidate here.

EBWOP

[IceDragon70]

everything else is like dart throwing and she put me in townie.

Well you're right about the dart throwing, but actually, nobody is town until furtiveglance in that readslist; nobody a scumread until BlueSnakelet. Even those tiers are weakly so.

{IceDragon70}
{GuyInFreezer}
{furtiveglance, Firebringer}
{Pink Ball, Doctor Drew}
{Enchant}
{Klickwork}
{BlueSnakelet}
{hebichan}
{Black}

Why BlueSnakelet?

She's just saying that Blue and below are weak scumreads, whereas the ones between blue and furtive are presumably null.

I’m aware. I’m asking why she scumreads Blue.

I don't know why she does, but I scumread Blue for her vibes especially on page 2. Something there feels exaggerated and unnatural.

[IceDragon70]

I'm actually not.
I am trying to start a oush on Blue right now.

[IceDragon70]

Oh I dunno it's just a thing I do, saying what I think other people meant.
It's probably a bad habit though, for obvious reasons.

[IceDragon70]

No Idea what SWF means, sorry.

[IceDragon70]

fuck I was trying to write I in brackets but instead it became formatting. How do I fix this?

wait i have a crazy theory furtiveglance's mafia code word is Feelin Frosty, thats code word to icedragon to activate something because thats icedragons signature

im so good at this game :O

Damn I didn't even realize it and I am the traitor here not you! Whoopsie I guess.

[IceDragon70]

r u an alt @icedragon?

I may be?

[IceDragon70]

IceDragon, relying on meta reads about RVS behavior is a strange course of action, but a welcomed one for sure

@pinkball what was ur step by step motive for posting this exact post.

Step 1: call IceDragon town
Step 2: tell him his line of thought is weird
Step 3: partially quote Palpatine

Wait you thought I was town?
Idk why but this entire page has me laughong so hard every time my name is mentioned.
But for real that post isn't calling me town, is it? Maybe it is.

[IceDragon70]

okay so

17 players

there is probably 4 mafia since that is the norm.

but knowing this is a bloody and different than normal game, that is probably NOT the norm.

not the norm includes 3 mafia (2 strong,1 semiweak) , plus 2 third party (1 kp and 1 passive)

or 5 mafia (3weak, 2 strong) , plus 1 third party (1 strong + kp)

frozen angel also seems to love third parties so we shall expect sum in this game.

this is advertised as a swingy game so balance isnt really a factor, that furhter probably alludes to the fact that there is not 4 mafia in a game.

Okay so I am just gonna say if you are serious about spec here, one of the roles I got offered allows me to kill scum in some manner.
Not gonna hardclaim anything or even say whether I picked it or not, but you should know it's probably swingy due to town having a lot of killing abilities as well as scum.

[IceDragon70]

Sorry guys this game started at literally the worst time for me lol

If I can't read and contribute today then I'll definitely be able to tomorrow

I was able to skim some and it doesn't look like much is happening anyway

I kibda scumread thia post. Wdym not much happening? Sure there's no one at E-1 right now but there was plenty happening and there's plenty of content to form reads on.

Like for instance Enchant and Grandpa's interaction feels like they are not SvS.

[IceDragon70]

okay so

17 players

there is probably 4 mafia since that is the norm.

but knowing this is a bloody and different than normal game, that is probably NOT the norm.

not the norm includes 3 mafia (2 strong,1 semiweak) , plus 2 third party (1 kp and 1 passive)

or 5 mafia (3weak, 2 strong) , plus 1 third party (1 strong + kp)

frozen angel also seems to love third parties so we shall expect sum in this game.

this is advertised as a swingy game so balance isnt really a factor, that furhter probably alludes to the fact that there is not 4 mafia in a game.

Okay so I am just gonna say if you are serious about spec here, one of the roles I got offered allows me to kill scum in some manner.
Not gonna hardclaim anything or even say whether I picked it or not, but you should know it's probably swingy due to town having a lot of killing abilities as well as scum.

bruh why would u claim ... i obviously knew that -- i even say that in a followup post that my spec probably doesnt matter but its just fun to guess.

if u know its swingy -- u should know its probably swingy on the other basis that maf can just kill u lol

Well I didn't claim
Also scum is welcome to kill me I mean I don't think killing me specifically is going to be better for them than say killing you or Red. Cause we all got offered some sick powers.

[IceDragon70]

No I am saying this because I have sick powers and I thought it's pretty clear everyone has.
If not, bog whoopsie on me.

[IceDragon70]

Big*

[IceDragon70]

Cause I just soft claimed having sick powers

[IceDragon70]

Cause I just soft claimed having sick powers

just stop talking

K

[IceDragon70]

Red

\

also @icedragon u can talk now but who is red

Ugh I meant Pink ball

[IceDragon70]

@icedragon ima be honest -- im not like other people where im just gonnavote u

because tbh, u resemble me when i use to play back then. its giving me memories back where i use to say the scummiest of stuff and then get pushed for it but in my head i didnt feel like i was being scumread.

other than that weird post in 224,(on it being a poissible scumslip), i townread u because ur giving too scum to be scum which is okay -- im expierenced enough to decipher that you are not just doing this out of mal intent but probably because you lack self awareness as town.

Do you realize how patronizing this comes off as?
But I do appreciate you not pushing me because that Red thing was honestly me confusing Pink ball with RedFF which is another user who's nit even on the playerlist.

[IceDragon70]

@icedragon ima be honest -- im not like other people where im just gonnavote u

because tbh, u resemble me when i use to play back then. its giving me memories back where i use to say the scummiest of stuff and then get pushed for it but in my head i didnt feel like i was being scumread.

other than that weird post in 224,(on it being a poissible scumslip), i townread u because ur giving too scum to be scum which is okay -- im expierenced enough to decipher that you are not just doing this out of mal intent but probably because you lack self awareness as town.

Do you realize how patronizing this comes off as?
But I do appreciate you not pushing me because that Red thing was honestly me confusing Pink ball with RedFF which is another user who's nit even on the playerlist.

i figured u would have said that. but im sorry if it feels like that -- its not my intention; i want u to prove everyone who voted u that ur a strong town player.

ok grandson?

Yes Grandpa, I'll make you proud!
And prove that your deck has no pathetic cards!

[IceDragon70]

UNVOTE:

good thanks for listening to me

now lets push this

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

A man of my liking.

[IceDragon70]

UNVOTE:

good thanks for listening to me

now lets push this

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

Why do you want to push BlueSnake?

Why don't you?

[IceDragon70]

It really wasn't coordinated, I just wanted to push a wagon. I'll push this one too.

VOTE: blursnakelet

My only hesitation is the doctor they have snake in their name

What does this mean?

r u an alt? because like whydo u come into the game responding to me saying why do u wanna vote x player as ur first post.

They're not an alt (AFAIK), they are a newbie and they just ask these questions almost all the time. It's their meta as both alignments. BUT I do scumlean the specific question they asked and the subsequent vote.

I also think that both their and Hebi's votes on Blue, individually feel like scum trying to distance themself from their partner, but together it might be just 2 scum wagoning a town? Unless they feel veeeery confident in their scumartner's ability to get out of this and are vith willing to commit to the wagon.

Disclaimer: take the above analysis with a grain of salt, I don't have anything more than a scumlean on any of these three, but these are the vibes I'm getting.

[IceDragon70]

UNVOTE:

good thanks for listening to me

now lets push this

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

Why do you want to push BlueSnake?

Why don't you?

I am pushing BlueSnake
Me asking why do you want to push someone doesn't mean I don't want to push someone, only means I want the reasoning behind the push, I didn't read what BlueSnake previously said so I was confused as to why, now I know why

So did you read the more recent posts first and then you went backwards?

[IceDragon70]

It really wasn't coordinated, I just wanted to push a wagon. I'll push this one too.

VOTE: blursnakelet

My only hesitation is the doctor they have snake in their name

What does this mean?

r u an alt? because like whydo u come into the game responding to me saying why do u wanna vote x player as ur first post.

I'm not, I didn't know what to say and that's one of the 1st things I saw in the new page, I always want to know why people want to push someone in the game

That's fair

[IceDragon70]

[quote=IceDragon70 post_id=13708548
So did you read the more recent posts first and then you went backwards?

I did
[/quote]

Oh interesting. Any particular reason?

[IceDragon70]

Whoops did I break formatting? I think I did

[IceDragon70]

So did you read the more recent posts first and then you went backwards?

I did

Oh interesting. Any particular reason?

Ebwop

[IceDragon70]

I broke the text too

Good job man, you really broke it now!

[IceDragon70]

I also think that both their and Hebi's votes on Blue, individually feel like scum trying to distance themself from their partner, but together it might be just 2 scum wagoning a town?

This thinking is pretty brilliant, it would be the perfect way that scum would distance/push a town pretty easily, you feeling Blue is town assuming you mean me/hebi is potentially scum?

I thank you for your compliment, but I don't feel confident enough in my 5D chess skills to make a call that Blue is town based on you or hebi or both being scum. I'm just not there yet so for now I'll be keeping my vote on Blue and see how this develops.

[IceDragon70]

[quote=IceDragon70 post_id=13708548
So did you read the more recent posts first and then you went backwards?

I did

Oh interesting. Any particular reason?

It's what I saw initially when opening the page
[/quote]

How do you mean? Did you click on the most recent post button? Did you just skip to the last page? Didn't pages 1-8 interest you in any capacity?

Sorry if this sounds overly pointed, I'm just curious though.

[IceDragon70]

Icedragon are you a ranger fanboy by chance?

I... Wha?
I mean I do think Ranger has some decent reads I guess? I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy though?

[IceDragon70]

u need to stop breaking quotes

You, my friend, are right.

[IceDragon70]

Kawaii and hebi aren’t scum together via Kawaii; Kawaii looks scummier than hebi via Kawaii too

What does "via Kawaii" mean here?
My English is pretty good but sometimes I miss these little nuances like this one.

[IceDragon70]

Holy shit is that Migi's evil twin?

[IceDragon70]

woah woah woah wtf

the second i leave, the second ther is finally some good activity going on? giv me sec, gramps is coming to solve whatever the problem is

pedit: its ok fire and guy are my two grandsons, ill pocket both . dw about pocketing me

Wait am I not your grandson also? I feel betrayed!

[IceDragon70]

Kawaii and hebi aren’t scum together via Kawaii; Kawaii looks scummier than hebi via Kawaii too

What does "via Kawaii" mean here?
My English is pretty good but sometimes I miss these little nuances like this one.

through Kawaii, meaning I'm scummier through me than hebi is

Yeah but what does it mean scummier through yourself? Like you are the one making yourself seem scummier?

[IceDragon70]

Anyway i think I'mma be off to do some productivity IRL, and then tomorrow I'll try to do a readlist and some analysis or something.

Pedit: when did you guys make all these posts? I swear it didn't take me so long to write out this post.
P-Pedit: two more????

[IceDragon70]

If i was offered vig, i choose it almost ceirtanly.

I wanted to, but the double gate discouraged me.
With only one gate on the power I'd have selected it in a heartbeat, but two meant it was too unreliable. Alas.

{IceDragon70}
{GuyInFreezer}
{furtiveglance, Firebringer}
{Enchant}
{Pink Ball, Doctor Drew}
{KawaiiKame}
{imaginality, Klickwork}
{GrandpaMo}
{Flavor Leaf}
{Kokichi Oma}
{hebichan}
{BlueSnakelet, Black}

p11

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

lol u literally sheep all my reads and haver the same mentality and thinking as me and call me scum?

crazy

im the one who called out bluesnake, townread ice

Actually Ranger had townread me before you did.

[IceDragon70]

Btw I missed like 10 pages so am gonna finish catching up later

[IceDragon70]

(still haven't caught up - won't vote Imaginality though until I see WHY you guys voting them)

My read still stands that I feel like they're playing to you as an audience.

I'm aware of how blatantly they are playing to me.

That's part of the townread.

I don't think scum goes out of their way to blatantly play to a single town player.

Yes, IceDragon is blatantly playing to me as an audience. So blatantly, I see it. I'm not townreading IceDragon because he's playing to me; I'm townreading IceDragon because I don't think scum goes out of their way to play to a single town player.

I also like Grandpa though! I am not actually trying to play with you as my audience... I want

everyone

to enjoy the spectacle!

Why am I arguing with the person who's townreading me though?

[IceDragon70]

I don't think scum goes out of their way to blatantly play to a single town player.

Disagree!
They're a newer player and I think they'll do whatever it is they think will get them townread. I also think newer wolf players like to hyperfixate on specific players.

Ali, you horrible at reading me.

[IceDragon70]

drop furtivegalnce, kawaiikame, (maybe firebringer) lower

those dont deserve to be townread rn

Definitely agree on that, especially with Firebringer

[IceDragon70]

I just wanna add that Imaginality poking me on my PB TR I don't think is a good look.
I feel like if wolves are likely to poke me or my reads, they would probably try to poke that because it looks like the weakest read out of the bunch

Wouldn't town also poke your weakest read though?

[IceDragon70]

Waiting for furtive to actually give hot takes for a read on him

Yeah honestly the lack of Furtive hot takes is worrying and I'm thinking my original gutread might've been right.

[IceDragon70]

I'm still catching up btw, can everyone pls stop posting so I can catch up? thx in advance xoxo

[IceDragon70]

I truly appreciate the fact that ya'll made like a 100 posts in the last hour. More to catch up on!

Yeah I am gonna finish catching up later but tbh I really don't see the reasoning behind the Imaginality wagon and I am not voting there right now.

[IceDragon70]

pookybear

@dragon im talking to u fwiw

Oh sorry I definitely missed that.
Um what does that mean?

[IceDragon70]

Huh another 100 posts.

Guys I'm serious now, any chance to tone down the amount of fluff posting and general posting? I am not used to games having 40 pages on the 2nd/3rd irl day. And a lot of these pages is really fluff.
Like Grandpa claiming neighbors, FL posting random GIFs, and Furtive saying random Furtive things.
Like I am not complaining about anyone in particular, just giving examples, but I DO NOT have the time to go through the last 20 or so pages, and if it continues at this rate I am afraid it will be very hard for me to participate in any meaningful way other than just picking someone townie and sheeping them.
So please just tone it down just a little.
Sorry for the rant.

[IceDragon70]

Morning guys!

I see there's been a lot of activity since night ended.

But yeah pretty obvscum after D1, now we have to see who's the partner who derailed the wagon on D1

It's one hundred percent Klickwork. Their push on Imaginality is fucking ridiculous, extremely timely if Blue was their partner, and they either supported or participated in the well known scum tactic of flooding the thread so town players like me, who can't be active all the time, can't read and participate. I can taste the evil in their posts.

[IceDragon70]

'Soft-guilty' is a bit like...hmm

Underwhelming compared to a real guilty

I suspect that since the setup is focused on humans and demons, we won't be able to get 100% real, alignment based guilties in this setup, but only things like x is a demon, x targeted y with a kill, etc.

[IceDragon70]

Morning guys!

I see there's been a lot of activity since night ended.

But yeah pretty obvscum after D1, now we have to see who's the partner who derailed the wagon on D1

It's one hundred percent Klickwork. Their push on Imaginality is fucking ridiculous, extremely timely if Blue was their partner, and they either supported or participated in the well known scum tactic of flooding the thread so town players like me, who can't be active all the time, can't read and participate. I can taste the evil in their posts.

you're pretty bad at reading me bro

Nah Ali, your playstyle is very different here than the other game we finished.
Also you saying "ok" when I said you're bad at reading me was scum indicative af. You are not the type of person to just back down from a push like that as town.

[IceDragon70]

Klick please claim your full role.

[IceDragon70]

it's not my fault you can't read and participate.
That sounds more of a you problem tbh

It's not your fault I can't be active 3 hours a day, yes. But your response to my "please tone it down" seemed as if you were intentionally bloating the thread. Which the you did with all those random fucking votes.

[IceDragon70]

Fine.
I guess I have to claim then.

I also have a soft guilty on Klick.

[IceDragon70]

VOTE: Klickwork

[IceDragon70]

you don't got anything on me

Yeah I do

[IceDragon70]

What kind of guilty do you have on me sir

I'll tell when you claim your role

[IceDragon70]

For what it’s worth, even if IcyD has a legit hard guilty, i think they’re scummier than Klick.

I don’t think it’s a guilty at all even before hearing things.

I’m setting myself up to look like a giant clown this game, but i am and forever will be KING CLOWN

Scum!me wouldn't have ANY motivation to just come in and start pushing hard one of the most townread players (and don't tell me they are not), and especially not Klickwork, who I know from experience I don't stand a chance againt in an argument.

[IceDragon70]

Inisnuating that what I am doing here could possibly come from scum is plain silly.

[IceDragon70]

Stop derailing's BlueSnake's fucking wagon

VOTE: BlueSnake

This flip will give us much more information that anything else that could happen today between the shitposters and the lurkers. If somebody is willing to check what happened on D1 and how BlueSnake's wagon was derailed to a town elimination, be my guest, but BlueSnake is today's elimination and we're done speculating.

However I am willing to agree here to town consensus and VOTE: Blue for now. We can get Klick later.

[IceDragon70]

Just do me a favor and don't let her hammer.

[IceDragon70]

it sets them up perfectly because now they probably will both get townread. or they ranger just buses blue and claims what i said earlier.

Ranger was already being townread and Blue was already being widely scumread.
They have 0 reason to do this, even considering WIFOM. Risk is way too big (some town accidentally catch Ranger in a lie in random PR action) for the reward (Blue lim that could've naturally happened regardless of Ranger's involvement).

ok that makes more sense.

see why cant people be like u

ur actually nice

Btw as for my reads, both Grandpa and GIF are town here.

[IceDragon70]

Okay I haven't seen Klickwork pushing Blue at all. Where exactly did they push them?

[IceDragon70]

Holy shit 200 pages.
Well GG, GrandpaMo pocketed me hard for real.
On the other hand, I was lockscumming Klickwork from D1 and got a guilty on them and they still lived somehow. That's impressive.
Ughhhh what a fucking game. GG WP scum.

[IceDragon70]

Good job honestly