Mini Normal 2296: Pictures of my cat, sometimes | GAME OVER

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VOTE: CCGeek

Morning, first game in a long time so please be gentle. Sorry, genteel. I’m a sucker for fake posh.

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Sorry, I’m here. UNVOTE: CCGeek since they clearly are not.

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I wouldn’t expect tchill to point to something as scummy having done the same (mod joke vote) if he was scum himself, risk of drawing too much attention - which it has. College drawing the same conclusion then switching to DEB - maybe some sus behaviour so for now VOTE: collegegoer

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I don’t really have an answer re: college’s alternatives. Just potentially sheeping chill to get something going, as it wasn’t gaining steam they then switch.

In terms of chill, they keep saying why did t3 silly vote if they were going vla and people keep focusing on the vla part. Chill has said that it wasn’t the vla that was the issue it was the vote - which they themselves did whether they state it’s a different thing or not.

With regard to yourself, have you gone through other players game history or just mala? If the latter, why not others?

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I will say, I’ve no conclusions at this stage it’s all just early and very rusty speculation.

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I’ll address dessew’s comment about me - ‘utter refusal’ is an incredible reach given I have said i’m just speculating, and I’m not sure where you get a piggyback either. Anyway I have no strong reads so my vote can stay where it is for now - but that definitely put you on my list.

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I’d love to say I’m busy, but I’m just forgetful. Enchant has come in and taken my, stated they’ve not read up on the game and then put a random vote in - then went silent. Technically so did everyone else (silence, not random votes) but I’m happy to leave my vote where it is for now.

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I’d love to say I’m busy, but I’m just forgetful. Enchant has come in and taken my, stated they’ve not read up on the game and then put a random vote in - then went silent. Technically so did everyone else (silence, not random votes) but I’m happy to leave my vote where it is for now.

What do you think is the reason scum would be more likely to do that than town?

Maybe just hoping to stay off the radar.

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Deasveil - my thought process is that I’m speculating without experience, first game since late 2018 and I haven’t played regularly since 2012.

The points about Dessew sway me, so let’s push them to 5.

VOTE: Dessew

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Not keen on lynching lurkers, feels like a crap shoot and tells us far less if we get it right/wrong.

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With daytalk in mind, I think #166 implies T3 is mafia. The vote doesn't make much sense, and I was busy pushing Mitillos, so it could be expected that I wouldn't comment. There's a real chance that it was a setup for Mitillos' legalistic nonsense argument. Notice that then he tried to push the narrative with College's vote on DEB, which is an immediate scumtell, regardless of anything

So this to me will be telling if we eliminate Dessew or T3 and they do flip scum. Dessew seems to be sowing seeds on T3 but very lightly before focusing on Mitillos, maybe putting some breadcrumbs out in case they did go to help try and paint T3 as town - something to give T3 a chance at least.

Also, totally take on board the comments about eliminating lurkers, for the health of the game and the site it makes a lot of sense.

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Kops summary is spot on with T3, it’s all fluff, defence or light questioning with no follow up. No opinions given unless prompted - and a flurry of posts as the pressure builds. I will vote them before day end unless there’s something substantial to change opinions. - I won’t move them to 6 votes just yet as we still have a few hours to discuss (maybe, it is quiet) and it could prompt a quick hammer, I will before I go to bed though so 3 ish hours time.

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I’m fine with Dessew or T3, nothings changed that for me.

VOTE: Mitillos

Yeah

Why?

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I can hammer, but I’ll wait until you all decide if we’re directing t3 or not.

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VOTE: bristep

But, but, but no!

I’m swithering on Dessew, they wouldn’t entertain Enchant as scum but constantly put DEB and Flippynips as solid town so it makes no sense to me that they’d then choose one to kill overnight unless convinced to by the third scum member.

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The first part I agree with you Red, I am struggling with years of rust from not played. The second part, obviously not so much.

@Dr Drew it just doesn’t totally sit with me, killing the person you were vocal about being confirmed town. If Dess does flip scum then that would cast doubt on DEB or flippy, it’s like sowing seeds then digging them up before the first rain.

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The first part I agree with you Red, I am struggling with years of rust from not played. The second part, obviously not so much.

@Dr Drew it just doesn’t totally sit with me, killing the person you were vocal about being confirmed town. If Dess does flip scum then that would cast doubt on DEB or flippy, it’s like sowing seeds then digging them up before the first rain.

You really think scum would be that straightforward like that?

I am not saying Dess is confirmed scum btw, but I don't understand your logic here in regards to your read on them.

Yes, potentially. There’s not much more I can expand on my logic - I explained it above. If you don’t agree that’s fine, it’s noted but it’s fine. I haven’t said I’ve swung on Dess, it’s just giving me cause to pause and think about it. Instead of pushing me to give more explanation where there isn’t any why do you think my logic is wrong?

Now, I’m under suspicion for lurking and trying to stay under the radar from redff and I assume t3 although they didn’t give a reason with the vote. I’ll say again that I am playing my first game in almost 5 years - 10 years since I played regularly. I’m rusty, struggling with reads and trying to speculate. You can look at my game history to back that up. If this wagon gains traction then I apologise in advance, but you’re barking up the wrong tree.

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Not to speak for Drew, but I can tell you why I think you're wrong. Dessew clearly believed that Flippy, by coming in and pretty much immediately saying that DEB was confTown, was basically claiming mason (as seen in post 258). Given that Dessew believed this (and presumably that everyone else believed it as well), it would make sense that as scum he would want to kill both Flippy and DEB, since this means he believed they would never be voted out. Imagine getting to LyLo and having to deal with 2 confTown. No mafia would want that.

It makes perfect sense for Dessew to kill his townreads, if he expects them to be treated as confTown by everyone.

Fair point, and I put my own uncertainty on it which doesn’t help, I would overthink it if I had the choice and wonder if killing off people I had been strong pushing as town would make people point that I’m killing off obvtown. Night 2, 3 yes more pressing but night 1 we’re still some way off lylo.

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Yes, absolutely. Speculation is all on my part.

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I think Dess is on 3, so I don’t want to put them to e-1 yet but taking on board the points about targeting coupled with their iso content towards the Enchant slot that is where my vote is right now.

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Ok, got the number to elim wrong.

VOTE: Dessew

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viewtopic.php?t=89933

My most recent experience with Mala-scum

Definite similarities between the two games going by their ISO, would need to look at game where they were town as well though to see if there is a clear difference.

I’m still on Dess, the behaviour towards Enchant’s slot and vice versa on d1 is the strongest indication I have.

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But we should all agree that DV and bristep are town. Let me know if there's some specific site meta why this reasoning might not work.

I don’t know that that’s totally true, far be it from me to cast doubt on myself but I called out my intention to hammer a couple of times before Enchant did themselves in. Your reasoning assumes that the scum were talking and cohesive and with the activity level on D1 that isn’t a guarantee. In my case your conclusion is right, but I don’t think that myself and DV should be put 100% town for that reason alone.

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I still haven't liked Bristeps logic Re: The NK and how it relates to Dessew. Starting to think there is some connective tissue there. I like making the elim between them.

VOTE: bristep

Went back and checked the VC, should be 3 votes apiece for both bri and Dess.

It’s 2, T3 unvoted, also Dess is on 4 by my count. However I reckon scum might be comfortable hopping on the wagon third, even if they were mistaken with the count. Especially to get a competing wagon going against their buddy. Red feels like town to me, T3 is confirmed town, you are feeling less so.

What I don’t see is the logic that it’s me or Dess. If I’ve been wishy washy on Dess and I’m scum why wouldn’t I push them rather than have (genuine, but that depends on individual reads on me) doubts? Doubts which by the way I’ve processed and moved on from and kept my vote on them, stating as such. The only argument on me (apart from Red saying I’m lurking) is that I’ve been wishy washy or weak with my arguments. That’s an easy target, elim me and then just blame me for being weaktown when I flip on the good side.

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That would be extremely obvious and dumb in our part if true. Anyway the cohesive comment was said in response to my earlier comment that not being in the Enchant wagon didn’t automatically make me clear town. Y’know, since they couldn’t say it to me anywhere else since I’m not in any PTs.

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and apart from Dessew there’s no one else who I think is thaaat likely to be scum

I intend to vote for bristep, but will wait for a vote count

That was quick, because I have been on Dess’s wagon since D1 apart from a wobble at the start of today. So you’re now saying that either Dess is town, or somehow we’re buddies despite my activity towards them?

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I didn’t ask your reasoning because clearly my activity was what changed your mind, either current or historic - I would like some comment on my questions though. Are you now saying that you read Dess as town?

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Not defending, thinking out loud. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

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Fair points, and I know that my claim of game rust is going to be contentious if you suspect me, which you do. That’s not something I can prove, it will be proven though in the end.

And I did think that Dess was trying to sway us by claiming a town read based on mechanics but I left it vague to try and draw some more rationale out of them for the point they were making - more content means more evidence for people to consider.

My only explanation for theorising on what I would do had I had the choice the scum did n1 is that I am confident I would over think things because I do in general in pvp turn based games, I play Warhammer weekly and it’s my biggest weakness.

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Red I agree with your list with the exception of me obv. I would just switch Drew and Dess around.

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Kop is another along with Drew that have done things to tip my alarm, trying to drum up speculation on why t3 wasn’t the n1k and then possibly white knighting me - both could be things that they could come back to as ‘why would I do this if I’m scum?’. I was town leaning on them for that reason but the stuff about voting Dess doesn’t sit right, they’ve given no read or case to accompany their intention to vote Dess, and Mala feels like an easy target to focus on instead.

Right now I think Dess is scum, with the other being among Drew, Kop or Mala. Everyone else I townlean at the least. The question is who would be most likely based on the game history and I don’t have a confident answer to that yet.

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I mean the history of this game (what little there is), sorry should have been clearer.

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I’d prefer Dess today, that’s who I’m most sure of.

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To be fair DV did announce its time to get things moving.

Setting up a LolHammer is quite a way to get things going.

Are you saying this was deliberate?

Also Dess please roleclaim.

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Well that sucks.

We could lose tonight, so I don’t want us to rush anything because we have to be as sure as we can to elim scum today. With that said however,

VOTE: Doctor Drew

The late stages of day 2 are really suspicious. Jumps on my wagon earlier than they probably intended, didn’t push it solidly and also didnt challenge people who townread me. Supports a Mala and Dess elim as well, both of whom are now confirmed as town, sadly because of their deaths. There’s a strong air of weak pushes and sitting behind stronger cases.

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You don't want to rush things, yet you drop a vote. Ya that makes sense.

Yes I supported their elims as long as yours, which I support more so now. Obviously it would have been nice to be informed in some way to know they were town, but all I can do now is figure out if there are any clues in their deaths, along with Miti.

I don't like how you are insinuating I had an agenda by voting you, I just think you are scum.

All that being said, two deaths? T3, did you lie again about your claim? I kinda get why you would, but who did you shoot?

A single vote isn’t rushing anything, hell I even prefaced it with ‘what that being said’. Come on that’s a lame angle to take.

And everyone has an agenda when they vote, so you 100% did when you voted for me. Town’s agenda is to eliminate scum, scum’s agendas are more complex.

Lastly I am not insinuating anything, I’m outright saying I think your behaviour is suspicious in the light of this new day.

You really seem to react badly to any sort of suspicion. Remember when you accused Dess and I of a coordinated attack because I noted the timing of your vote on me? At least I was only wrong about Dess, you’re wrong about both of us.

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@Doctor Drew let’s follow this thread then, why track red last night? Also how does this correlate with your certainty that I’m scum since Red was hard on me d2 only changing vote to hammer Dessew?

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In the interest of balance I should ask the same of Redff - why did you choose to investigate Doctor Drew?

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That’s fair, he was high on your scum list end of d2 - just wondered if there was more thought behind choosing him over me as I was your top scum read at the end of the day.

I believe you though at any rate, Drew’s claim of tracking you makes way less sense to me - and waiting for T3 confirming who they shot is so, so sus. If they tracked you then just say so regardless, only scum would be worried about getting caught in a lie under those circumstances.

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Drew has already said they tracked DV on night 1. Tracking Red makes no sense, waiting for T3’s confirmation on their shot makes no sense, RedFF fake claiming without provocation makes no sense given that a mis-elim, scum kill and t3 shooting town again would win scum the game tonight. A fake claim guarantees a 4th day.

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Dess, Drew, bristep and kop are all still in the game. These were people at the bottom to mid tier of red's latest read list before the end of day 2.

Idk how "likely" it is they chose drew. Correctly. Out of 4 options. When DREW was the scum that made the night kill.

Red didn’t track, that was Drew’s claim. Red said he got a guilty on Drew which I assume means investigator - meaning Drew didn’t need to be the one to kill to get the result.

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So many posts!

Ok, so no I haven’t seen a vt fake claim without provocation but my experience is limited and I can absolutely see someone trying it. It’s panicky and hella dumb though which I don’t see in Red’s ISO. Drew seems to panic a bit, he did it when Dess and I separately noted concern about him - immediately accusing us of a coordinated attack which given my ISO was unlikely since I pushed Dess for nearly the whole of D2.

Panicking and counterclaiming something that guarantees their demise fits with that.

Drew hasn’t got a guilty on D1, he claimed to track DV and said they went nowhere.

Red I think it’s best to tell us what you know from N1 as it’s becoming a point of contention.

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A fine game by Tchill, but the behaviour towards red yesterday felt really forced and out of sync with the rest of the game - I think they knew as there was a backtrack and apology.

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Interesting position because now I now know exactly who the scum is, Chill has always known but the speculation about a bulletproof scum is intriguing because it would potentially explain why t3 wasn’t night killed over Mittilos - in case this exact scenario played out.

Tchill dying gives us an immediate town win. Only Tchill knows if scum has already lost. Simple.

VOTE: Tchill13

Tchill might try to explain this as a railroad on my part, but it’s not. Victory for town this way lies.

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Who pushed Drew on D3 even before Red’s reveal and who tried wildly to speculate and find something to cast doubt on the claim?

I don’t think I cited rust after d2 either, d3 I was certain about Drew based on his behaviour on D2 and the reveals overnight.

DV take all the time you need, but I promise you Tchill is now going to try and play a blinder to pull a scum win from the jaws of defeat - which probably means he is bulletproof after all.

T3 surviving makes on night 2 makes no sense either unless one of the scum was widely townread which you 100% were at that time. I’m glad t3 took the shot last night as well because I was leaning towards Kop and you’d have probably convinced me to elim wrong again.

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I still haven't liked Bristeps logic Re: The NK and how it relates to Dessew. Starting to think there is some connective tissue there. I like making the elim between them.

VOTE: bristep

Went back and checked the VC, should be 3 votes apiece for both bri and Dess.

Drew voting bristep when a seperate wagon is there for distancing purposes but also at a safe time.

Hardly, he thought he was putting me level with Dess and Red/DV had made some strong cases against me. It was a safe hop on third, no massive danger when I got elim and then flipped town because others made the strong case. I spotted that and immediately called it for what it was. He then tried to say Dess and I were launching a coordinated attack.

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since im probably gonna be killed by scum, i think the last scum is in kop and bristep.

All right ya jabroni lol.

Keep open wolfing you liar.

ive thought about it a lot and i think its correct to claim this, i have an innocent on deasvail. if t3 shoots tonight, it'll be 4 player tomorrow with 2 players confirmed town. t3 shoots kop tonight, you lim bristep tomorrow, the game should be over. tchill is the wild card here but i think he's likely town from his irate posting today. its hard to fake.

Lol, have it all figured out don't you?

This is clearly trying to give the impression that he’s taunting town that they’re wrong, reverse psychology but just not very good.

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Y’all just there.
I kinda thought scum!Tchill and DEB could be a thing cos they wouldn’t invite me to town! Island but like I said I’m here to flirt with LIL Debbie so no way I’m voting him first day

its for your protection emperor. Dessew can go. So can the college slot. T3 as well.

I like that flip isnt letting go of the college/enchant slot.

You can have an actual tr now.

I say we chainsaw t3/enchant/dess. Has to be scum in there.

You should probably claim

Town Novice Odd Night Vig. Basically, I can shoot on all odd nights except for N1.

Why except N1?

I've seen and heard of several odd and even night roles, but never have I seen one where it can't be used the first chance it gets. Like a even night but can't use it N2 etc.

Is it brazen enough to fake claim as scum thinking we'll let you hang around till N3 to prove the role? I don't know. And even if you're telling the truth about being a Town Novice Odd Night Vig, you still can't prove your role till N3.

VOTE: enchant

Let's back off t3. Maybe there's a way to figure that out before night 3... As for flippy. If you'd like I'm willing to vote out either enchant or dess.

Enchant specifically? Hmm... I don't have any fantastic reasoning tbh other than that slot is lurky. And I'd like to be able to feel good about emperor. I think there's good odds one scum is in t3/enchant/dess

I'm willing to bet on any of those 3. T3 being my least favorite to vote out atm.

I suppose I could reread the college/enchant slot. But I never felt great about them for town either.

Never felt anything about them in all honesty.

I'm OK with Mala, dess, kop... Maybe drew....mayyybe bristep being scum. Personally I think the whole group is in that list. If I'm wrong about anyone it's redff but I don't think so.

I'm OK with Mala, dess, kop... Maybe drew....mayyybe bristep being scum. Personally I think the whole group is in that list. If I'm wrong about anyone it's redff but I don't think so.

im gonna take mala and put them as a tr for now.

So poe is dess, kop, drew, bristep.... redff possibly.

I wont be voting miti or mala today. Hell of a risk to take if scum let the vig shoot after the vig had voted scum d1.

This is all the references to college/enchant and Drew from D1 and D2. And I’m accused of distancing?

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You pushed voting off lurkers, enchant was never your solid push the posts above show that.

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We need 3 people to vote the same. I'd like to hear from t3 why I'm scum.

It's obviously bristep from my pov and I'd like the opportunity to build a legitimate case there before getting hammered.

I'm one of the main reasons college got voted out.

I'm the only one that pointed out drew didn't change his stance from a red town read then all of a sudden "tracked" red.

Bristep I do not believe has tried to game solve at all. Other than letting my pet peeve get the best of me as far as red goes I've played pretty well and have helped town along the way.

I just don't see a world where bristep is scum with Doctor Drew tbh

Agreed, and the bolded bit is pure nonsense which totally ignore my posts on d3.

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To support my last point

@Doctor Drew let’s follow this thread then, why track red last night? Also how does this correlate with your certainty that I’m scum since Red was hard on me d2 only changing vote to hammer Dessew?

This was me, well before Tchill’s post which he claimed was the only time someone called out Drew’s claim to have tracked Red.

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It doesn’t, you may try and spin it that way but late D2 and all of D3 has to show that I am not scum with Drew.

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Wait... If we no vote and just have t3 shoot bristep we win right? Or we vote and t3 doesn't shoot.

I don't think masons a role cop and a vig is balanced at all btw. I am throwing that out there.

Wait a second scum has to have a vest or something correct? Cus if they can't be killed by the vig. And we vote out town. T3 shoots scum but the vest stops it. Scum night kill and win.

If the scum do not have a vest it's just a win for town right? Vote out town. Vig and scum kill each other. One Town left remaining.

Yeah, you’ve definitely got a vest.

DV I don’t know what I can do/say to sway you but honestly Drew and I together makes no sense. The mechanics talk from Chill is meaningless, he did the same yesterday around the claim/counter claim and it just serves to distract. I’m convinced by his behaviour that he’s vested, so scum wins if you elim me.

Tchill elimination = town win.

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DV - Tchill’s talk of no elim at night gives him a chance to kill T3 leaving you and him to vote me off giving the scum the win. T3 shooting me at night would give him the win regardless. It’s all just speculation to obfuscate. If he’s certain I’m scum why would he suggest no elim? Trying to throw out ways to mechanic a win doesn’t serve town, voting scum serves town.

I know you’ve had me read as scum since d2, when you and red fingered me and Drew limped in third I called that out immediately, I then immediatelty voted him d3 and pushed him when Tchill was disracting with mechanic speculation. Genuinely i can’t see how anyone can put he and I together.

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If T3 was scum then what mafia role allows for a second night kill? Genuinely I’m not down for a T3 elimination unless there is a role I’m not aware of and one hell of a smoking gun.

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What happened to the smoking gun?

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TBH it doesn’t matter, I’ve looked through and I can’t find a role that makes that second nk a scum shot, other than passive abilities which react to the other players action - which vanilla townies don’t have. Only other thing he could have been was JAOT but that would only give 1 shot one night. T3 is town, Tchill is scum.

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DV what’s your take on TChill’s flip on me and focus on T3? Scum won’t care who is eliminated so long as not them, so if chill has a vest then they know any town elimination wins them the game.

Tchill clearly sees t3 as harder to convince off his wagon as he does convincing us to join the t3 wagon.

Even no elimination, which he’s put out there only benefits scum.

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*sigh* what happened to the smoking gun on T3 we were going to get after work yesterday? What happened to you being certain it’s me before the sudden declaration that t3 is scuk? You have been all over the place on d4 and this now feels like we’re about to see a fake claim - although at the moment what you’ve said is true either way. At this point I feel like you know there’s a deadlock so you’re trying to make everything so noisy to push towards a no elim.

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But you already knew this going into d4 and you went after me initially. It wasn’t until yesterday that you suddenly pivoted onto T3. I’ll hear this out though, and I’ll say myself I’m VT. DV do you want to put your cards on the table and reveal your role as well? Feels like we’re at that point.

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I forgot you said you were the other mason, I was literally typing this as you replied. Red said he got a not guilty on you D1 which is why you were conf town and what confirmed Tchill as scum for me.

My summary is this. Another power role would definitely be imbalanced towards town, t3 and dv are confirmed in their roles which means Tchill is lying from my perspective. Final answer, I’m not being swayed from that.

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N1, not D1.

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Yaas, GG everyone. Chill that was a fine performance all round. Even at the end I was second guessing myself.

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Red did the damage, 3 successful picks in a row even if n3 never got revealed. Confirming DV as town put it down to chill and myself, thank you DV and T3 for picking right.

Investigating Drew on n2 was the clutch play. Without that I’m pretty sure I was on the block for d3 and then it’s game over pretty much.

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Thank you Shea for running the game, very fun

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Part of that was down to my early play though DV, I was genuinely struggling with having not played in such a long time and that pinged a lot of people, including making me a target for scum. I don’t blame anyone for reading me wrong. You made the right call when it counted

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You were a strong player especially late game it’s just the mechanics that worked against you - I was certain you were bulletproof until you rounded on t3.