large normal 243: lindOVER

Venmar · Post Post #885 (isolation #0) » Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:57 pm

Hello

Going to;
UNVOTE:

For now since idk where my vote is, gonna try my best to read up and catch up. Haven't played in years so I'll try to restart the gears but I do recognize the odd name here.

Venmar · Post Post #889 (isolation #1) » Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:34 pm

I've read from page 20 onwards because I didn't feel like reading the full 36 pages, if someone has something important that happened prior to that feel free to let me know.

Lurking seems to have been a topic during my read; when I last played I never liked going for lurkers exclusively, the meta back then was neutral on lurkers usually and I was never a fan of eliminating them just purely based on the fact that they were lurking. As a kneejerk rule of thumb I am suspicious of people that ride lurkers hard and scumread them mainly due to inactivity, meta back then had lots of good players who posted little and gunning for lurkers felt like a net scum tactic, but maybe the meta has actually evolved...?

From my read i;

lean town;
ballpointpen (posts on page 20 read town to me. I wrote this down first and started expanding on other players as I read on and I lost my train of thought and im now tired but for now from what i've seen i have no reason to not at least lean town here for now)

GuyinFreezer (I like the straightforward thinking in most of their posts. #498 and #502 feel like kneejerk comments by town.
Flavor Leaf (I like the posts on page 22, thought process and drop of thoughts on a lot of different players feels like a townie going through the motions. They also echo some of my gut reads like lean town on GIF and not liking Adante's push. Gets lost in the sauce on page 6 by talking a lot about chainsaws and hatchets but otherwise seems genuine in their posting.)

kowahbunga (#636 gives me a decent town ping, i like the logic of wanting to move the day along but specifically by getting more info. the timing of this post makes sense to me.)

Malcolmtucker (string of posts on page 27 give me good town vibes, i vibe with their reasoning behind how they make reads and the reasoning feels very genuine, seems honest while providing solid context and content. disagree with the scumread on bpp since I don't think bbp has acted particularly scummy, his scumreading of malcolm read fine to me and i don't think bpp had much to gain from sticking out from the pack and scumreading malcolm a bit, malcolms reaction feels like a town being defensive overall imo.)

Enchant (Glitch had no posts in the pages i read but #745 is hilarious and thats all yall will get out of me for now for this townlean)

Kittytacky (general vibe seems to be town for me tbh, that's all I got atm I'm just trying to finish reading at this point)

neutral;

save dragons (tbh I can't get a read on this player for now, posting is a bit sporadic and hard for me to just get a read on atm)

Adante (#510 to #515 is very scatterbrained and I don't fully buy the logic behind reading Hu Tao as scum for their interactions with Glitch, but i can't pin this behavior to either town or scum tbh. the subsequent hounding of players for thoughts on Hu Tao I also read as both as town following a tunnel read or scum getting easy engagement. #573 and #574 don't sit well with me either, former is an oversight since Flavor did give some thoughts on Hao, that alone is null but latter post feels suspiciously defensive. outburst on page 24 feels a bit more townie though, i see town pushing for activity more in this scenario. subsequent tunneling and justification being based on hao being inactive is then less attractive to me. the logic of activity = town and lurking = scum is really double downed on later on and idk what to make of it tbh. this is a read i'd lean scum if i received some convincing but tbh this could just be town with some goofy logic i dont jive with)

NJAC (finally started posting a bit on page 32, officially neutral but they seem to keep claiming they are catching up while showing no effort to contribute until page 33 or so and the posts there are all over the place.)

lean scum;
bud bidderskins (#494 and #496 rubbed me the wrong way, accepting that you consider someone as scummy while trying to distance yourself from their wagon feels like either scum trying to distance themselves or get free "caution" points. #604 is also a post, the overly cautious approach again reads like scum looking for brownie points, while also looking for a new wagon to sponsor. #657 doesn't feel like a genuine town reaction either, don't know what town gains from showing such repetitive exasperation over glitch being wagoned. #848 is a post I like though for what its worth)

Hu Tao (not a fan of the spamposting on page 25, claims isnt lurking cause they have 9th most posts and then late says the same thing but with 5th most points probably because they made like 15 posts on 1 page. posts at the bottom of page 27 are also kind of sus, they don't really add anything to the convo and read like flippant scum. posts top of page 32 really ping my scumdar too, just don't like the mix of defeated voting for NJAC and being jokingly dismissive of dragons post)

cephrir (#602 rubbed me the wrong way, maybe because i don't buy Adante's tunneling on Hao, but this is also just a kneejerk gutread. could be a nonchalant townie looking to get some traction but this reads more like scum trying to smoothly hop on a wagon after another player has filled the half of 2 pages with tunnel reads. lots of posts after this in future pages feel like noncontributive and fluffy. behaviour on page 29 also doesn't sit well with me, just kind of reminds of scum back in the day who mostly just posted casual fluff. #757 and #759 however read kind of town to me, the random slapdown on Flavor feels both accurate and town motivated for the most part)

greeting (don't like the NJAC in #668, logic feels contradictory and this boils down to my old meta of not killing lurkers just for being lurkers, greeting pushing this while acknowledging the cons just reads so weird to me.

---

idk who i missed in my reads list, tbh i'm just tired. I kind of skimmed the last few pages just so I could say I am "caught up"

I'm most open to voting cephrir or hu tao tbh, both just ping my gut as scum the most consistently.

Venmar · Post Post #905 (isolation #2) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:27 am

is spamming your thoughts as one sentence posts the meta now or something

zzzzz

Venmar · Post Post #917 (isolation #3) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:57 am

In post 914, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 906, Venmar wrote: is spamming your thoughts as one sentence posts the meta now or something

zzzzz
I don't know this is my first real game on this site. I like catching up in real time. One post catchup reads fake to me cause it can be constructed to look a certain way. But that's just my opinion. If you're going to scumread me for playstyle that's on you not me

I wasn't scumreading you based on just that per say, it was just an observation. I think spamming and wallposting ultimately are both null tells since it's easy to do as both factions. Town can make less but larger posts and be constructive and useful just as scum can just spam the thread with a stream of thought that looks authentic but really doesn't take a lot of effort to fake. I find it more interesting that you and others seem to put as much weight/consideration on reading players off of posting style and activity.

Venmar · Post Post #934 (isolation #4) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:32 am

In post 924, Save The Dragons wrote: cephrir is probably town here guys
greeting too
njac is probably town tho despite having bad takes
hu tao is ???

let's kill hu tao

what a nice list of mostly L takes

In post 927, Save The Dragons wrote: ceph has a certain energy as scum that he doesn't really have here

In post 932, Save The Dragons wrote: cephrir can be grumpy and smarmy and sassy as scum, he's less those things not as scum

I don't follow the thought process and ironically I feel like ceph has been the things you're describing as his scum playstyle

Venmar · Post Post #935 (isolation #5) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:35 am

Also on the topic of greeting;

In post 669, Greeting wrote: Why is everyone so hesitant to vote
NJAC
out?

From my perspective, a lot of players can be easily ruled out and get town passes for the time being. Meanwhile, that slot contributed literally nothing. If we keep him in the game and allow him to coast around, we will not be moving forward.

^ I'd be curious to hear how anyone here could read this post as coming from a townie POV.

Venmar · Post Post #940 (isolation #6) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:04 am

In post 937, GuyInFreezer wrote: It’s Day 1 so I find that reasonable to come from any alignment tbh

disagree

In post 938, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 261, Greeting wrote: There's definitely at least one scum in: {
KittyTacky
,
NJAC
,
Glitch
}. I'll see in the postgame if my instincts were right.

In post 596, Greeting wrote: I am not at all opposed to eliminating
NJAC
.

VOTE: NJAC

In post 669, Greeting wrote: Why is everyone so hesitant to vote
NJAC
out?

From my perspective, a lot of players can be easily ruled out and get town passes for the time being. Meanwhile, that slot contributed literally nothing. If we keep him in the game and allow him to coast around, we will not be moving forward.

In post 684, Greeting wrote:
In post 683, Flavor Leaf wrote: Scum really don’t want NJAC executed.
I’m starting to think that is the case too. Players like him should be policy-elimmed, and it’s very surprising that there’s only four votes on him so far.

I will look into the
Hu Tao
wagon later though.
Like, it’s all on track too.

consistency doesn't always = good imo

i just feel like "policy-elimming" lurkers as a D1 strategy is more likely to be adapted by scum who want to coast to a free lim in D1. It's made worse by the fact that NJAC became more active not long after the last of these posts and has been more useful recently

In post 940, Cephrir wrote: if you all want to vote me so bad, do it

beetlejuice vibes

split on who to vote on tbh, it's between ceph, greeting and hao for me

Venmar · Post Post #941 (isolation #7) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:05 am

VOTE: Cephrir

Venmar · Post Post #944 (isolation #8) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:07 am

discord

emoji

Venmar · Post Post #945 (isolation #9) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:08 am

oh i didnt know they worked on this site lol

Venmar · Post Post #951 (isolation #10) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:24 am

For the record I am not scumreading cephrir due to his scum meta, I can't even recall if i've played with him before. ceph is almost certainly a better player than me, but my reasoning boils down to "vibes" and ceph's play just reminding me of an active and "chill talking" scum of old. Any comments I made about ceph's playstyle have mostly been me pointing out the contradiction in dragon's read on him which is a reflection of my thoughts on dragon more than anything.

Venmar · Post Post #953 (isolation #11) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:41 am

careful ceph, leaf will call you scum for criticizing his njac wagon

tbh though I'd like more input from Kitty, Flavor Leaf, karmadog and stargazer for varying reasons

Venmar · Post Post #1024 (isolation #12) » Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:16 pm

I just finished moving and I am literally dead, but going to chime in a bit since it'll keep me sane for now

In post 1008, Kowahbunga wrote:
In post 890, Venmar wrote: kowahbunga (#636 gives me a decent town ping, i like the logic of wanting to move the day along but specifically by getting more info. the timing of this post makes sense to me.)
What's your opinion of post 645? It was in response to the post of mine you liked.

I mean tbf I have only read from page 20 onwards so idk if I can comment on how much did progress in D1 up until that point; if not much did then your post and the timing of it made sense to me, so if I accept that your assessment was correct then andante's dismissal of it and trying to shut it down isn't something that necessarily pings town for me.

My read on andante overall is mostly neutral but i haven't liked a lot of her posts like I said in the post you quoted me in, a lot of it feels like bad takes and poorly motivated. Could maybe be shown the light.

Venmar · Post Post #1146 (isolation #13) » Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:37 pm

Bub really do be just looking for the most viable wagon like a moth attracted to blood, it's pattern I've noticed most of the time when he pops in to post.

Cephrir's frustration over how he's being read by some players also seems quite genuine to me but idk if it's AI yet...

Venmar · Post Post #1150 (isolation #14) » Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:42 pm

In post 1140, Bub Bidderskins wrote: It's not like I've got a super strong town read on them or anything, and I am willing to be persuaded of that slot's scumminess, but I have not seen anything resembling a case against them in the slightest. It's just a bunch of massively low-effort bs about how they look scummy without any analysis or argument of how their play is scummy at all.

Putting in this much effort to discredit/scrutinize the wagon on the Glitch/Enchant slot (on numerous occasions) despite not strongly town reading them also just feels off to me... especially since Enchant isn't a leading wagon atm.

Venmar · Post Post #1153 (isolation #15) » Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:53 pm

Also the more I read back on Hu and Andante I feel like one has to be scum and one has to be town, I just don't buy the way Andante has gunned for Hu all game that it comes from scum tunneling scum. I think elimming one of the two likely yields us the most info based off of how much they have interacted up until now. I've like Hu's posting a bit more recently as I think they're trying to contribute in a way that they think is useful whereas I found Andante's outburst over being close to elim (sympathy for the emotions aside) more scum motivated than not to throw up your hands and refuse to claim, which I think town would do when necessary and scum would try to avoid to not get caught in a fakeclaim if possible.

Considering I don't think Cephrir is a legitimate target to push for now combined with me actually wanting to see him post more in the future, and that there isn't much time to pivot to Bub, I'm inclined to make my vote more useful by;

VOTE: Andante

Venmar · Post Post #1156 (isolation #16) » Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:05 pm

As a side note I'd like to see Flavor Leaf contribute more than mostly theory talk, feel like most of his posts that I've seen are majority discussing meta and terms like chainsaw, hatchet, etc, though I might be having selective memory. I liked some of his earlier posts like #543 and #545 and would like similar kind of insight on players again.

In post 1156, Hu Tao wrote: Like nothing of this indicates one of us has to be scum. We could both be town and wrong as well. So i don't get the whole 'one has to be scum' thing. And usually is a scummy post from my experience

I mean without some flips and power results, we're all just flexing the brain muscle to try and deduce results based off of words we say, I'm not holding a graph that says what I said must true, I'm just telling you the gut feeling I got over you two. I find Andante the scummier of you two and if she flips scum then I think the way she has sussed you it'll make you more town in my eyes.

Venmar · Post Post #1187 (isolation #17) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:53 am

NJAC's comment towards Kitty's keyboard thing is probably just dumb and NAI y'all should chill

In post 1158, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
In post 1147, Venmar wrote: Bub really do be just looking for the most viable wagon like a moth attracted to blood, it's pattern I've noticed most of the time when he pops in to post.

Cephrir's frustration over how he's being read by some players also seems quite genuine to me but idk if it's AI yet...
I've been very consistent with my reads. CKD is likely scum and got off easy for some reason despite a super sketchy claim, and Hu has been my main number 2 read since the middle of the day. The other wagons on scummy players I could be persuaded to jump on if we come to a time crunch because not limming D-1 is a failure, but, unlike a huge number of slippery folks here, I've actually been consistent in my reads.

If you want to go after someone who's constantly jumped to popular wagons, look at Hu. Maybe Cephir as well who constantly seems to complain about how everyone looks vaguely scummy but has never actually pushed anyone.

In post 1151, Venmar wrote:
In post 1140, Bub Bidderskins wrote: It's not like I've got a super strong town read on them or anything, and I am willing to be persuaded of that slot's scumminess, but I have not seen anything resembling a case against them in the slightest. It's just a bunch of massively low-effort bs about how they look scummy without any analysis or argument of how their play is scummy at all.
Putting in this much effort to discredit/scrutinize the wagon on the Glitch/Enchant slot (on numerous occasions) despite not strongly town reading them also just feels off to me... especially since Enchant isn't a leading wagon atm.
It's because I'm legitimately confused about the Glitch/Enchant scumread. It just seemed like it came out of nowhere and nobody every explained it. Like all the lurkers I get. Andante I get because she's been super slippery and jumping all over the place. Greeting even I get because they haven't contributed much but keep popping in with pretty low effort posts. But Glitch seemed like they put in effort but didn't have the time IRL. I didn't understand why people thought Glitch's posting style was scummy but haven't batted an eye at all the one-sentence semi-spam posts that do nothing to advance the game state.

Ceph and to a lesser extent Hu are people I scumread or have scumread so I have looked at them, you've just been one of the most willing players to change your vote to accommodate a larger wagon and it'd come with you popping in just to say you're looking to support a more viable wagon. Consistency or not the willingness to flip flop on your priority just reads off to me.

Re: Glitch/Enchant, where do you read the slot currently? Are they a solid town read for you?

Venmar · Post Post #1189 (isolation #18) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:20 am

Also jfc I just realized we are at 48 pages. I have plenty of large games in my history that ended around the 50-55 page mark.

I change my mind, we need to end this stupid day like right now

Venmar · Post Post #1191 (isolation #19) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:26 am

In post 1191, Cephrir wrote: Then vote hu tao

I feel stronger about Andante and they're the larger wagon though

Venmar · Post Post #1224 (isolation #20) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:59 am

I think Ceph and Hu might be scum together, those skygazer votes stink hard

Venmar · Post Post #1229 (isolation #21) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:01 am

Cephrir employing the "it is just so unreasonable that I am being scumread, I must be getting pranked and trolled" form of defense strategy I see.

Venmar · Post Post #1232 (isolation #22) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:03 am

Definitely not the fact that this day has gone on for an eternity and you and Hu (the person you kept telling me to te) are trying to pointlessly derail to skygazer atm, or am i the clown rn

Venmar · Post Post #1235 (isolation #23) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:04 am

In post 1231, Cephrir wrote: i bet scum are just as baffled by the scumreads on me as i am

In post 1232, Cephrir wrote:
In post 1230, Venmar wrote: Cephrir employing the "it is just so unreasonable that I am being scumread, I must be getting pranked and trolled" form of defense strategy I see.
yeah saying im scum with hu tao is incredibly unreasonable and you are scum or a clown for saying it

- calls himself town being scumread by town
- calls me possibly scum despite consistently being sus of you since i joined

pick one?

Venmar · Post Post #1240 (isolation #24) » Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:08 am

:shrug:

I wasn't trying to tilt you or make you upset. I'm sorry if I was. Feel better.

Venmar · Post Post #1398 (isolation #25) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:40 am

In post 1250, Save The Dragons wrote:
In post 1225, Venmar wrote: I think Ceph and Hu might be scum together, those skygazer votes stink hard
Skygazer has done nothing all game and you wanna protect them for ??? Reasons

I'm just interested in ending this day tbh, my read on Skygazer is officially null/neutral and I just feel like there's better options out there

Venmar · Post Post #1399 (isolation #26) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:49 am

Malcolm is definitely town btw

Cephrir's posts on this page are actually... good? Not sure what to make of it now tbh

Someone give me a TL;DR on why Skygazer is of interest because I don't feel like figuring it out on my own right now, thanks

Venmar · Post Post #1401 (isolation #27) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:57 am

In post 1401, Save The Dragons wrote:
In post 1399, Venmar wrote:
In post 1250, Save The Dragons wrote:
In post 1225, Venmar wrote: I think Ceph and Hu might be scum together, those skygazer votes stink hard
Skygazer has done nothing all game and you wanna protect them for ??? Reasons
I'm just interested in ending this day tbh, my read on Skygazer is officially null/neutral and I just feel like there's better options out there
you said the votes on skygazer stink so why would you have that on a null slot :thinking_emoji:

They stunk in the sense that I thought they were derailing from viable wagons when this day has already been unforgivingly long, not because I felt strongly one way or another about Stargazer.

At this point I just think that we are all so scatterbrained that scum are probably just laughing at us since we have spent 56 pages just unable to find a consensus wagon or actually work together. The lack of direction in this game is detrimental imo.

I did ask in #1399 for someone to TL;DR the stargazer wagon to me so maybe you could oblige me

Venmar · Post Post #1406 (isolation #28) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:37 am

In post 1404, Save The Dragons wrote: well you see skygazer has been constantly updating us with their thoughts in the thread and not lurking. they've been here and present and clearly explained their not random scumread on cephrir. they haven't just posted excuses, they've been active and engaged.

So they're scum because they scumread Ceph and are active and engaged?

Venmar · Post Post #1409 (isolation #29) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:46 am

Listen it's not my fault sarcasm doesn't always translate well in forum text

Venmar · Post Post #1414 (isolation #30) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:45 am

Idk but I thought #1411 was funny.

Venmar · Post Post #1423 (isolation #31) » Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:08 am

Oh I didn't realize Skygazer has 5 votes

Venmar · Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:44 pm

Flavor who should I vote.

Venmar · Post Post #1543 (isolation #33) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:52 am

In post 1520, Flavor Leaf wrote: Bud’s been momentum wrangling all game based on his ISO. I don’t have time to really case right now, but i got giant scum pings from their last post, so I started to look a little deeper, and it looks like they’ve had a lot of type of posts that say a lot, take a stance, but really doesn’t say much of anything.

Like theyre stating what‘s happening, and then choosing how they feel about it rather than naturally feeling it.

I'm in agreement, Bub's been pinging me most of the game with how he mostly just pops in to find a new wagon to moth to.

Idk if there is traction or time to pivot to Bub but I'd be down for that push in the future.

Venmar · Post Post #1544 (isolation #34) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:00 am

In post 1533, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 1523, Flavor Leaf wrote: I’m almost willing to go Curious today because of the softie.

But yeah, Bud pinged my scum tinglings.

in this net of two you are throwing....(and this is a serious question) are Bub and myself both scum? If the answer is some version of "NO" then YES you should
lynch
(something about a machine) one of us. I think a lot of information could be garnered from our flips actually. I mean, look you have already laid the ground work to go after one of us tomorrow, why not do it now. There are more than enough people here who have expressed interest in my wagon. And I imagine scum will use the length of the game as a guise to "vote X because the game is going to long".

That reminds, Ive been a 100 page D1 game. This is nothing. It is a large game with people you like to have one word posts. Get over (to all) it or replace out, but leaning on "I just want this day to end so I dont care" is a cop out....and scum will DEFINITELY be saying this at the end.

Stinky stinky. It's not about just the pagecount, the game has been going on for almost 3 weeks now and could go on longer as Ceph is now slated to probably get replaced too. I think at a certain point when a day has been dragged on for as long as this one has, the focus gets lost in all the noise and fatigue. I think scum would be the ones mostly interested in prolonging the day and avoiding a consensus since keeping town confused and divided is ultimately more useful than a cheap 'lim.

Also I don't think there is anything that Flavor said that'd indicate both you and Bub HAD to be scum together and it's weird to me you went straight to theorizing that. Painting the situation as a black and white one that seemingly makes it seem like the choice is either you or Bub just feels like a sussy defense aimed at getting you at least into N1.

Venmar · Post Post #1553 (isolation #35) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:38 am

Dragon what happened to Cephrir, pls console him and tell him we'll be nice this time

Venmar · Post Post #1557 (isolation #36) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:41 am

In post 1553, Skygazer wrote: i do think there are multiple ppl here who know how slippery i am as scum and know this isny v likely to be scum me

wouldn't the failure to build a large enough wagon on you count as you being slippery?

I disagree fundamentally with going for people solely due to the activity/lurking or meta, but you've definitely not contributed in any meaningful way imo

Venmar · Post Post #1563 (isolation #37) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:45 am

In post 1559, Skygazer wrote: dont rlly feel the need to contribute rn if that isnt obvious

ill have more to go on later

What's your read on dragon and bub

Venmar · Post Post #1578 (isolation #38) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:00 am

I haven't played with you before (that i remember) so idk, but being "slippery" or manipulative doesn't have to be fancy or elaborate

Answer my question in #1553 pls

PEdit: @Sky

Venmar · Post Post #1580 (isolation #39) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:04 am

Lol I remember reading that and it fell out of my head

Why is StD null? Their almost tunneled push for you hasn't made you feel one way or another?

Venmar · Post Post #1920 (isolation #40) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:30 pm

There is no way that we spawned 13 pages between me going to work this morning and coming back

Venmar · Post Post #1931 (isolation #41) » Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:45 pm

FL and Malcolm were in my town pile for most of the game, I believe the mason claim.

I think Andante is the elim to go with to end this infernal day tbh

Venmar · Post Post #2030 (isolation #42) » Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:32 am

In post 1955, Flavor Leaf wrote: I forgot how jaded I get playing games after 9 years of being on site. Add up my 2 main accounts, I might have the highest post count of all time. Not sure if that's correct, though. stoned thoughts.

What are your other accounts out of curiosity?

Venmar · Post Post #2041 (isolation #43) » Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:04 am

Don't know if I'm going to be much interested in any other flip today aside from Andante either

In post 2036, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 2031, Venmar wrote:
In post 1955, Flavor Leaf wrote: I forgot how jaded I get playing games after 9 years of being on site. Add up my 2 main accounts, I might have the highest post count of all time. Not sure if that's correct, though. stoned thoughts.
What are your other accounts out of curiosity?
Main one, Boonskiies.

Alt accounts
Morality, Pretentious, Rick Dalton, Ahsoka, April Ludgate

probably a few more.

Ah, I feel like I might've played with your Boonskiies account before but was curious since I've never played with you as FL before.

Venmar · Post Post #2522 (isolation #44) » Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:49 am

I'm so lost, haven't been around since like Page 82 and came home one day to Kitty being dead.

Gonna try my best to do somekind of a catchup.

All I'll say for now is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action

Venmar · Post Post #2523 (isolation #45) » Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:51 am

Actually I don't feel like reading 30 pages can someone just loop me in or point to things I should care about

Venmar · Post Post #2693 (isolation #46) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:53 am

I've done a very surface level catchup, I've been busy with work and settling in to my new place tbh, but I'll try to be more useful from now on.

Truth is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action and honestly that's all I know about that :shrug:

I was away at work the whole time the Kitty wagon got run up; I initially remember townreading Kitty when I first replaced in and then my read slowly became null because they didn't post much. Honestly idk if I would have supported the wagon if I was around at the end of last day, but the fact that the wagon was virtually spontaneously flashed into existence by FL and Andante makes me think that one or both of them are town because to randomly pivot so hard to elimming a partner is just insane to me. I've TRead FL pretty consistently so this makes FL almost conf town in my eyes in particular.

@Flavor;

What changed your mind on Bub? Seems like you have warmed up to him quite a bit but I recall you scumreading him quite a bit D1, what changed?

CKD's push on me based off of the NJAC visit could be a townie mindset but it's also a very surface level analysis, NJAC visited me but that's really it, I'm assuming NJAC is just a regular visitor. NJAC voting me since he visited me makes sense from his POV since he might as well pressure his target for content, but CKD's hyper-focus on it doesn't feel like a genuine scumhunting tactic considering how non-informative visitors are in general, trying to squeeze water from a stone so to speak. I think Enchant picked up on the same thing as me here in this regard.

Don't like Hu Tao's posts this day as usual tbh, pushing star for being more active (?) doesn't make sense to me. Most of their posts I just don't see much meaningful contribution tbh and mostly just easy jabs or fluffy posts like not wanting to rush this day, I'd say keeping this day succinct is completely fine since we got a scum lim and a N1 NK plus D1 was so infernally long.

Gimli's posts I've mostly vibed with tbh, but I think he replaced Cephrir who I was consistently scumreading so idk what to make of a townie looking person replacing someone I was SReading.

Venmar · Post Post #2695 (isolation #47) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:59 am

I still feel good about Hu Tao being scum since I don't think their play has improved from D1 and their hop on the Kitty wagon feels like a bus than a townie hoping on. CKD I don't think is trying to gamesolve organically, and honestly I still scumread you (Bub). Andante I was leaning scum on but I think the Kitty elim makes Andante scum pretty unlikely due to them helping kickstart that wagon.

So I guess my reads are roughly this;

Lean scum:

Hu Tao
CKD
Bub

Null:
Greeting (I used to scumread this slot but this is also a bit of a stale read)
Eiralox (I used to like BPP's posts tbh but this is a stale read and I don't think Eiralox has posted much since)
GIF (used to TR, hasn't posted in a while so read has also gone stale)
Enchant (I vibe with the playstyle but tbh it's mostly NAI for me)
STD
Sky
Malcolm (I used to townread him and would still lean that way tbh but this read is a bit stale)

Lean Town:

Kowah
NJAC
Gimli
Andante

Town:

FL

Lots of nulls just cause I haven't kept up as much as I'd like to and a lot of the players there either don't post much or I haven't paid much attention, well try to get on correcting that

Venmar · Post Post #2706 (isolation #48) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:21 am

In post 2705, curiouskarmadog wrote:Venmar, what WAS the purpose of announcing who targeted you?

It just felt necessary to me idk, it was a piece of I info I had I thought I'd share since I guess I'm getting run up today. "loud actions" in PMs weren't really a thing for me when I last played tbh, I just assumed visitor made the most sense not a diff PR

Venmar · Post Post #2707 (isolation #49) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:23 am

Gotta go to work, I'll circle back if I'm still alive in like 8-9 hours :shrug:

Venmar · Post Post #2787 (isolation #50) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:02 pm

In post 2701, Andante wrote: Also, you don't even have NJAC on this reads list? I thought you were automatically scumreading NJAC? I see no NJAC sr on this...

Also your reason to TR me is garbage. I was super against a kitty lim..
"makes Andante scum pretty unlikely due to them helping kickstart that wagon." I like said no to kitty a good 2-3 times....

My catchup was pretty surface level but you were the 4th vote on the wagon..? Feels like the back and forth between you and FL is what sparked the wagon one way or another. I'm not hard townreading you but I'm just saying what my vibe from that was.

Venmar · Post Post #2788 (isolation #51) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:13 pm

In post 2753, Gimli wrote: I think y'all reading too much into it. it makes sense regardless of venmar's alignment to out that he was targeted by a loud action - and the person who targeted him. if you don't out it, it looks sus and the person who targeted you can push you for it, depending on what they did.

as mafia it's a good idea to walk the line of being as truthful as possible, so that you can gain some towncred which is what venmar is getting now. I think the lacklustre content of the slot is way more alignment indicative and how we should be scumhunting.

Was my outing of NJAC visiting me NAI as you imply in the first part or was it scummy because I'm walking the line by telling the truth to gain towncred like you imply in the second part? Which is it? You then in #2762 say that my slot is just "scummy" and needs to flip. If my NJAC out is NAI to you then what about me is convincing you I am a necessary flip other than that I've been busy the last few days?

Venmar · Post Post #2792 (isolation #52) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:10 pm

In post 2790, Hu Tao wrote: If I saw my townread visited me I would not out it

NJAC is someone I have townread more since this day started. I was mostly null reading that slot D1 and the fact that I am not pushing the slot anymore means I don't think I was visited by scum but this is a conclusion I landed upon this day and honestly somewhat after I outed the info.

Why beat a dead horse with this point though? Is that and continually saying that we should take this day slow your only way of contributing?

Venmar · Post Post #2795 (isolation #53) » Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:17 pm

Vote: Hu Tao

Venmar · Post Post #2959 (isolation #54) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:00 am

In post 2952, Save The Dragons wrote: i dunno i just want to hunt off wagon

You guys can literally timestamp the end of D1 to my work schedule (seem my sig) to see that Kitty got run up during me being at work, I came home to a flip. Don't know if I would've joined the wagon anyway.

Hu tao is the push for me but maybe I'll have to give FL's post a closer read to see what's going on with Andante, my eyes mostly glazed over the few new pages.

Tbh I'm pretty sure

@Gimli

ignored my #2788 and I'd like a response. Feels like I'm getting run up for being busy or for "vibes", idk, which on the part of Gimli feels like misdirected townie based on the vibes I get from their posts but in the case of people like Hu, Andante, etc, it just feels jumping on the low fruit rather than trying to actually gamesolve, or at least it feels that way to me until I understand what the "case" against me is.

Venmar · Post Post #2963 (isolation #55) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:06 am

In post 2961, Flavor Leaf wrote: Gimli going off vibes makes a lot of sense for a TownGimli case, though.

I get general town vibes from Gimli like I said, reading by vibes and guy is fine, I tend to do it a lot but I do think there's probably other players riding Gimli's coattails in this regard

Venmar · Post Post #2964 (isolation #56) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:14 am

In post 2949, Flavor Leaf wrote: I just don't really see CKD as being scum here at all right now

Any chance you'd expand on this? I've had bad vibes from CKD earlier tbh

Gave your case on Andante a bit of a read, it doesn't fully to me probably because this is the only time I've played with her and a lot of your reasoning seems to come down to meta and how you think !scumAndante tends to manipulate as scum? Many of Andante's posts are very erratic, omgusy or devoid of focus, which for me is always hard to read personally with anything more than vibes. She seems to just lash out at everyone on a whim and react strongly to the smallest pushes, but maybe this is a part of how she manipulates? Honestly my initial read on her from day start is still a tiny townlean since I just feel like a scum motivation should've overridden her playstyle a bit to not be an influence in the start of the Kitty wagon like she was.

Venmar · Post Post #2965 (isolation #57) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:15 am

*it doesnt speak full to me...

forgot a word ^

Venmar · Post Post #2966 (isolation #58) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:28 am

In post 2886, Andante wrote: there's a weird dynamic between kowabungah/FL/curiouskarmadog right now, and I'm not sure all 3 are town

What makes you say that?

In post 2862, Andante wrote: but this constant fight of saying I’m town is exhausting. can we either vote me out or establish Im town from here on out today? cause day after day of this will piss people off… especially when the 3 scum + people who know me… KNOW im town here

Don't like this post though, maybe this is what FL was referring to as "defeatist" but this does read to me as exasperated scum who is trying to regain control of their game image.

In post 2929, Gimli wrote: FL tbh I'm not interested in andante slot today. I think I'd have to read a lot and I'm just fine not having andante in my solve rn. it's d2 with one dead wolf, I say we kill the people not playing/lurkey slots posting scummy stuff first. I think andante should be considered way way way down the line. but I'll come back to this and read through eventually I guess.

I'd disagree and say that since we got a scum D1 and a NK on N1, we can afford to elim someone higher profile with lots of posts to get us more info from a flip, since we have the extra breathing room to do more analysis now and in the future, Flipping a lurker is low-hanging fruit tbh when I don't think we need to resort to that atm.

Venmar · Post Post #2969 (isolation #59) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:41 am

Vote: Andante

Venmar · Post Post #2973 (isolation #60) » Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:49 am

Also I took a quick dive into Kitty's ISO, and it's making me feel better about Enchant, who Kitty kept blindly pushing which to me just reads as scum trying to charge down a townie, and Kitty's focus on Skygazer in #1949 when prompted to join a large wagon also helps support FL's theory that scum were trying to push a wagon that wasn't Andante. Both interactions make me feel better about Sky and Enchant as being a bit more likely to be town than scun. Kitty's ISO also puts some water on my Gimli TR though since Kitty was soft defending Cephrir multiple times in posts like #1031 and #1393 and it feels bit like buddying a bit to me, but it's not enough to flip my read for now. It mostly makes me think that maybe my push suspicions on Ceph in D1 might've been correct but Gimli has been ostensibly way more townie than Cephrir so it's a balance scale for me now...

Venmar · Post Post #3049 (isolation #61) » Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:11 am

In post 3031, NJAC wrote: I drank some beers but here are some quick thoughts:

Vig should shoot Andante to remove the noise and we should lim today one of those who were not on Kitty's wagon.

Why are you so confident there might a vig to solve this for us?

Besides, under your theory of 1 person bussing Kitty, why is Andante not a prime suspect there as the 4th vote and someone who's been seemingly vocal about how she wasn't actually a fan of the wagon?

Venmar · Post Post #3052 (isolation #62) » Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:16 am

Oh tbh I didn't even notice that

Venmar · Post Post #3114 (isolation #63) » Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:27 pm

Tbh Sheeps entry into the game is mostly null to me if not a bi sus just cause I am usually instantly weary of someone who just hands up that many TRead, but many of them also sound non-committal or fency. Will probably evaluate more once sheep is actually caught up.

Hu Tao continuing to push me for no reason is

but at least they finally voted me

Venmar · Post Post #3115 (isolation #64) » Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:35 pm

In post 3105, Flavor Leaf wrote: Hu Tao went from 'not sure on Venmar' to 'this is the right play for the day' without having any sort of explanation for that trajectory. It's purely responsive imo.

They've been saying how I'm the vote for a while without voting for me until recently actually I think

In post 3112, Flavor Leaf wrote: What are people’s CKD reasons?

I didn't like his reasons for pushing me, seems like he over-focused on my NJAC outing and NJAC voting me at day start, it felt a bit wolfy in how quickly they made the incorrect assumption and tried to push the narrative that NJAC was informed voting me when NJAC themselves hadn't made that push himself.

Which actually reminds me, I forgot to respond to this post:

In post 2704, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 2696, Venmar wrote: CKD I don't think is trying to gamesolve organically,
lets talk organic scum hunting. what are some examples of this in your mind of this.

for example, Bub, mentioned....hey, Venmar wasnt posting during the KT wagon that could be suspicious....I thought.."hmmm, lets check...he wasnt, was he posting ANYWHERE...nope". So after I looked that up, I asked Bub if he had any OTHER reason to think you might be scum

now. is the organic or inorganic scum hunting? what are some of examples of YOU organically looking for scum?

Im I actually trying to look for scum, or posting bullshit like..

In post 2524, Venmar wrote: Actually I don't feel like reading 30 pages can someone just loop me in or point to things I should care about

And my response to an example of inorganic scumhunting is the explanation/example I gave above this quote tbh.

Venmar · Post Post #3267 (isolation #65) » Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:14 pm

In post 3188, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 3178, Kowahbunga wrote: I can't articulate it yet, but I don't like Curious last like 5-10 posts.

It almost feels like they want to come across as disagreeing about Andante, but only so that they can be seen changing their mind.
Ill make it clearer for you. I dont like the Andante wagon. I dont understanding why (now) multiple people say the Andante flop will help them "reassess the game" or "open up the game"

so give a flop what does say about me? if they are scum, am I protecting a buddy? if they are town, am I trying to get town cred?

or maybe...just maybe..

I dont like the wagon and I feel like there is a whole game of scummy people here that would MORE telling if they flipped. TO INCLUDE ME! There has been MULTIPLE people say they thought I was scummy for this reason or that, but are leaning on this wagon.

so how do you "feel" about my posts now. any confusion?

Didn't like this post for the most part, it feels a bit purposefully ignorant or disingenuous to not understand why Andante flipping will help move the game along for a wide variety of reasons. The rhetorical comments about what the flip would say about CKD seems out of nowhere and like someone trying to discredit potential future associations and getting ahead of that narrative and then trying to mask it behind the last paragraph about their "real" reasons for not liking the wagon. Or maybe I'm not reading into this properly..?

Maybe the above is just my rationalization of what might just culminate in me not vibing with a lot of CKD's posts.

Venmar · Post Post #3269 (isolation #66) » Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:17 pm

Just vote Andante, the wagon is nice and cool

Venmar · Post Post #3291 (isolation #67) » Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:03 am

In post 3273, Bub Bidderskins wrote: I really don't like this goading of the vigilante. I don't know if it's all that AI....but it's bad firm in a way I can't articulate.

It's called shitposting by Hu tbh

Hu's quote wall about me is also great because it's clear their read on me likely hasn't evolved or grown in like 2000 pages. It's just blind pushing through shitposting.

Venmar · Post Post #3386 (isolation #68) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:04 am

wtf is that flip

Venmar · Post Post #3390 (isolation #69) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:09 am

Inclined to be believe GIF's claim for the most part for now... just feels a bit too random to be a scum powermove or something.

Sheeps posting I kind of vibe with in general but the sky vote idk if I agree with. Gimli's #3385 certainly is interesting, might have to revisit what bpp did in general.

Venmar · Post Post #3401 (isolation #70) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:30 am

In post 3397, MalcolmTucker wrote: Gimli is really townie. I'll maintain the triage of Andante/Flavor/Gimli was all active town accusing each other to a degree. Scum got lucky when Flavor got off track after his correct townread on Andante.

Did you say this triage sometime earlier in the game? If not, I can't say I like the idea of bragging/justifying a Gimli TR by lumping him in with a couple dead townies like this. Something about the vibes of that don't sit well with me, idk.

Venmar · Post Post #3406 (isolation #71) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:34 am

CKD's #3380 bothered me for a somewhat similar reason, i'm usually a bit sus of those who gloat about dead townies looking towny before they died, or fluff posting about them like CKD did.

Ninja'd, @Malcolm: I townread Gimli as well, but deciding he's town because Andante/Flavor flipped town and cause Gimli was/is vocal like them feels like an informed way of throwing him in your townpile, is kind of what I'm trying to say.

Venmar · Post Post #3453 (isolation #72) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:19 am

Sky's push doesn't make sense to me even if they were town tbh, like why out a player who could be a mason? Didn't someone claim neighborizer too? So many other reasons, why not wait to contradict Gimli if he claimed something else?

Venmar · Post Post #3463 (isolation #73) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:26 am

In post 3452, Save The Dragons wrote:
In post 2998, Bub Bidderskins wrote: Honestly, Andante just reflexively attacking absolutely anybody who dares to attack her is way scummier than anything else she's done all game. Above everything else Andante's motivations can best be explained by self-preservation more than anything...which is very scummy.
like this is just an andante tell not really a scum tell. this is easy for scum to jump onto the andante wagon with

In post 3000, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
In post 2997, Andante wrote:
In post 2995, Gimli wrote: andante's posts are making me scumread her pretty heavily tbh
Gimli is no way town here… you do not go from being convinced im town to all this pivoting to “yeah i’m gonna vote her!!” like vote me if you sr me. none of this “yeah!! yall lead this charge!!! I support!!”
Lol I couldn't even finish my post before Andante comes in with yet another example of what I was talking about.

She's done basically no legitimate scum-hunting -- just attack people on her wagon.
again this is an easy post for scum on andante to make

Are these scumtells or just nulltells if someone like Bub reads into them without prior experience of playing with Andante?

Venmar · Post Post #3475 (isolation #74) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:36 am

tbh I don't even remember Eiralox posting once

Venmar · Post Post #3477 (isolation #75) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:45 am

I'm just gonna

VOTE: Sheep

thanks

Venmar · Post Post #3480 (isolation #76) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:52 am

People are clearing ckd? News to me, I'm down to vote hop there as well

Venmar · Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:08 pm

I'm catching up and I just wanna comment quickly that I need Enchant in all of my games ever it's too good

Venmar · Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:18 pm

Ok I caught up

Policy elimming skygazer feels like the most tempting and undoubtedly funniest course of action, but tbh I kinda agree with Enchant or whoever it is that said that it's such a weird and braindead series of gambits by Sky that it's unlikely to come from actual scum? Like why do it and risk so much?

But then again, maybe it's all just WIFOM?

Venmar · Post Post #3661 (isolation #79) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:50 pm

I think of your questions are self-explanatory tbh if you read #3385

Venmar · Post Post #3675 (isolation #80) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:08 pm

In post 3661, NJAC wrote: What exactly is interesting about 3385 and why do you suddenly need to revisit bbp?

I just thought it was an interesting post; pointing out bpp's interaction with Bub as a forced one meant to build a fake interaction is something I agree with on a surface level after looking at that post. It's not conclusive, but I remember TReading bpp at one point so I was gonna double check and tbh considering bpp's post there was only the 30th post of the game, in hindsight it's a bit less interesting now idk.

In post 3674, Bub Bidderskins wrote:
In post 3672, curiouskarmadog wrote: also noting that Venmar and Bub, are testing the waters for interest in my wagon. you hoping someone else starts it, so you can limp on?
I dunno dude, you sound you're testing the waters for interest in a wagon on me. Hoping someone else starts it, so you can limp on?

I was geared to come up firing on a Hu wagon today based on how they defended Andante but the town flip is forcing me to re-assess.

I'm an optics genius and I think a better description for what I'm doing is "shading"

Venmar · Post Post #3676 (isolation #81) » Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:09 pm

Wait.

Disregard the bub quote above, I meant to reply to ckd's post below LMAO

In post 3672, curiouskarmadog wrote: also noting that Venmar and Bub, are testing the waters for interest in my wagon. you hoping someone else starts it, so you can limp on?

Venmar · Post Post #3805 (isolation #82) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 3:56 am

Hi im catching up but;

In post 3693, NJAC wrote: @
Everyone
:

Can you please order (again if you already did) these six players from the scummiest to the least scummy?

{Enchant, Venmar, GIF, Malcolm, Sheep, Sky}

S - Sheep, Sky, Malcolm, GIF, Enchant, Venmar - T

Don't feel too strongly about GIF tbh, that is basically a null read for me

Venmar · Post Post #3807 (isolation #83) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:26 am

Sky's vote/thought progression w/e on page 149 doesn't sit well with me

##3729 by CKD is both presumptive and imo incorrect; broadly saying that scum love to lean on "being defensive is scummy" feels like CKD is conjuring up a fact to try and justify why he doesn't like Bub's comment. In my opinion I think being overly defensive is a null tell because in my experience I've see townies explode as much as scum when attacked; someone using it as a scumtell is therefore not really AI inherently for me idk. I feel like Enchant might've picked up on this in the next post but said it better than me?

CKD vs Bub feels more like SvS just cause I scumread both slots tbh. #3731 Looks like a big word salad, I feel like they're both attacking each other for slim reasons and it feels like a lot of posturing by both.

Sky simply sheeping enchant/furtive to vote Bub despite TReading bub(?) is also very weird to me, not sure how to read it. Sky admits in #3743 that they destroyed their credibility to make their own pushes but tbh I didn't like Sky's overall gambit shenanigans and it felt like a lot of scum theatre that is now feeling more justified with how Sky is using it as a reason to sit back and let themselves be lead. #3752 by CKD is then an interaction that feels like someone coaching someone out of a slump.

#3752 and #3755 by Malcolm are poor mostly because I disagree with his take on CKD's response to bub and I also disagree that Bub looked like "very active and strong town voice" earlier in the game, Bub has been mostly wagon hopping all game and idk why people townread that slot tbh. Malcolm's read progresses in the next few posts though as he reads more of Bubs posts, though a post like #3759 feels like Confirmation Bias.

#3765 by Bub is doubling-down on a bad argument. #3767 feels hypocritical because I think Bub scumreading Andante fo hopping on and off a wagon is something Bub has done (?) before in D1.

Sky defending Bub in the later posts is then weird since I scumread those posts but idk. #3773 by Sky in shading Kowah is also bad since I feel like Kowah is potentially the best townread in the game for starting the Kitty wagon. I just don't really like how Sky is voting for Bub while also actively defending him.

Tbh feeling like Sky, CKD, Bub, Malcolm and Sheep are all varying levels of scummy to me and I'm kind of comfortable hopping to Sky the most.

VOTE: Skygazer

My eyes are mostly glazing over the Bub/CKD/Malcolm threeway, STD asking them to move on summarizes my thoughts on that.

Venmar · Post Post #3810 (isolation #84) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:28 am

Actually, correction, I trashed like 4 people

Venmar · Post Post #3813 (isolation #85) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:30 am

But mom, I don't want to

Venmar · Post Post #3816 (isolation #86) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:38 am

Because I scumread Sky more? Sheep, Bub, Sky and Malcolm are my scumreads and I voted for Sky because I like my read there a bit more. Just because I said Bub's name more doesn't mean that's where my vibes are atm, I find the gambit shenanigans followed by passive sheeping and defending of Bub who they're voting more suspicious and informative to me if Sky flips.

Either you're choosing to selectively read my post incredibly disingenuously to push your own read or you're just being annoying.

Venmar · Post Post #3818 (isolation #87) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:43 am

I'm not ignoring anything but if you think I'm ignoring you I could ignore you harder if you like

Venmar · Post Post #3825 (isolation #88) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:52 am

I feel like you're the one being confrontational/annoying on purpose, I see where you're coming from but I scumread both slots, have said why in my original post, but am voting Sky because I like my vibes there more, and am not gonna change my vote purely just cause you say so probably because I'm personally very stubborn and like to be adversarial to people being snarky with me and tbh idc if you're a Mason or w/e it is you claimed.

Venmar · Post Post #3828 (isolation #89) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:02 am

In post 3827, Save The Dragons wrote: ok what do you think of my thoughts on bub

Going off of #3806 I think like you said in your own words a lot of your case on him seems to be predicated on "pre-flipping" BPP, so I think I'm scumreading Bub independently from your reasons tbh. Most of your thoughts arrive at similar conclusions like me which is that Bub has mostly spent the game wagon hopping and making weak reads which I guess is what some of your points are probably alluding to.

Venmar · Post Post #3832 (isolation #90) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:08 am

In post 3825, Skygazer wrote:
In post 3822, Skygazer wrote: i forgot kowa started the kitty wagon i thought that was flavor
wait lol it was flavor, kowah was the hammer

@venmar

I'm going off of memory tbh, I could've sworn FL said that at some point, I wasn't around during the whole Kitty wagon thing. I might just be sheeping FL's read on Kowah and misremembered Kowah starting the Andante case as starting the Kitty one idk.

Re sitting back; I guess you're not "sitting back" but I definitely letting yourself being lead while transparently defending the person that you're voting.

Venmar · Post Post #3833 (isolation #91) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:08 am

In post 3832, Skygazer wrote: also dont like how venmar didnt engage with my rebuttals

STD triggered me sorry

Venmar · Post Post #3835 (isolation #92) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:12 am

In post 3830, Skygazer wrote: venmar's push on me feels scummy tbh it feels like theyre overjustifying it (kind of badly i'll add) which makes me think they're concerned about optics

feel like town is more likely to just naked vote me for outting a mason than try to find all these other excuses for hopping on my wagon

I mean, I gave you the benefit of the doubt in #3657 over the whole outing a mason BS since in isolation it's such a baffling play, and then your subsequent play is what changed my mind that it's a scummy sequence of events because you used it as an excuse to start sheeping and playing bad, but you do you.

Venmar · Post Post #3840 (isolation #93) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:21 am

In post 3837, Skygazer wrote:
In post 3836, Venmar wrote:
In post 3830, Skygazer wrote: venmar's push on me feels scummy tbh it feels like theyre overjustifying it (kind of badly i'll add) which makes me think they're concerned about optics

feel like town is more likely to just naked vote me for outting a mason than try to find all these other excuses for hopping on my wagon

I mean, I gave you the benefit of the doubt in #3657 over the whole outing a mason BS since in isolation it's such a baffling play, and then your subsequent play is what changed my mind that it's a scummy sequence of events because you used it as an excuse to start sheeping and playing bad, but you do you.
do you think if i were scum using "it as an excuse to start sheeping" I'd be defending the person I'm sheeping onto?

I read it as you sheeping while defending the person you're voting as you setting yourself up to point at the wagon if Bub flips town and be like "Hah look I told you he was town", or you as scum trying to look like you're sheeping (trying to get rid of accountability for your actions) while also defending your buddy to actively derail from the wagon, which you seem to have successfully done now.

Venmar · Post Post #3842 (isolation #94) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:25 am

Sky unvoting removes a vote from Bub (which you don't seem to care about?) and is now pushing attention to me while having defended Bub in the past. Seems consistent with the strategy that I think !scumSky is engaging it but whatever Mr. Mason

Venmar · Post Post #3845 (isolation #95) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:31 am

I know math is hard but my post in #3805 predates my post in #3807, which clearly shows that my opinion changed between the two posts after I finished my catchup, but if you want to continue to discredit or misrep me then feel free.

Venmar · Post Post #3847 (isolation #96) » Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:36 am

Why is your defense boiling down to "No that's weak, it's not a good enough reason", am I correctly scumreading you for the wrong reasons?

Venmar · Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:04 pm

Why is Gimli replacing out smh

Venmar · Post Post #3956 (isolation #98) » Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:04 am

VOTE: Bub

E-1 I believe

Venmar · Post Post #3983 (isolation #99) » Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:06 am

In post 3981, Save The Dragons wrote: i feel like scum is waiting for the wagon to dissolve instead of hammering

like is my head so far up my own ass that i can't see straight or is everything about this suspicious as hell

3 of my 4 other scumreads aren't voting Bub so it kinda checks out. Idk why Malcolm isn't voting Bub tbh

Venmar · Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:38 am

In post 4022, ofrhz wrote:
In post 1147, Venmar wrote: Bub really do be just looking for the most viable wagon like a moth attracted to blood, it's pattern I've noticed most of the time when he pops in to post.

This is a pretty wild take. They've been vocal against the Enchant/Glitch wagon and very much an advocate for the CKD wagon.

I disagree, I feel like we're not reading the same game. Especially D1 I feel like Bub would mostly pop in to voice his support for a different wagon between Andante, Hu, etc. I'm mostly going off of memory tbh but I've never found Bub's posting to be very "townie".

In post 4022, ofrhz wrote:
Cephrir's frustration over how he's being read by some players also seems quite genuine to me but idk if it's AI yet...
This just says nothing

Yeah that's my specialty thanks

Why is Bub town lol

Venmar · Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:39 am

In post 4023, furtiveglance wrote: Why is the Bub wagon not going through

Because Gimli got replaced and his predecessor is now townreading Bub!

Venmar · Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:39 am

*his successor

Venmar · Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:13 pm

He claimed Vt I think

Venmar · Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:13 am

A plot twist

Venmar · Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:09 pm

In post 4069, ofrhz wrote:
In post 4061, Venmar wrote: A plot twist
Do you have anything to say about my vote on you?

Not really, seems to boil down to you not liking my #3808 which like OK but not liking someone's posts and disagreeing with them doesn't mean I am scumreading them just because I disagree with their thought process, that's pretty reductive and you putting words in my mouth in a way. It's partly true because of how I worded my post, but each bolded part of your post in #4040 has me disagreeing because I think the person is reading the game in a way I'd find scummy (ex. I disagree with CKD on his "being defensive" take but also say its CKD coming across as conjuring up a reason to fire back at Bub. I disagree with Malcom's takes but think its coming from him reading Bub's posts in a way that I don't reflects accurately on the game and by making statements I dont think are true like Bub being a "strong town voice".)

As for Bub I just fundamentally disagree with you, I always found the timing of Bub's posts to be very opportunistic and lined up with the momentum of the day. If you see it differently then that's fine, but I can't say I find you replacing in just to seemingly chainsaw defend Bub particularly townie to me

Venmar · Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:33 pm

If you say so bud

Venmar · Wed May 03, 2023 5:02 pm

VOTE: sheep

Venmar · Wed May 03, 2023 5:07 pm

Sheep looks the worst based on association with both Kitty and Bub tbh, think this slot flips scum more often than Sky or Malcolm

Venmar · Thu May 04, 2023 3:39 pm

In post 4177, ofrhz wrote:
In post 4156, Venmar wrote: Sheep looks the worst based on association with both Kitty and Bub tbh, think this slot flips scum more often than Sky or Malcolm
Is this a list of ppl you'resuspecting? I remember you scumreading me yesterday, what happened to that?

Yes, I've been suspecting them + CKD for a while. See this post

I'd say me scumreading you is a premature assessment, don't think I said that, just that I didn't like you coming in to mainly defend Bub. Idk how I feel about that yet tbh now that Bub flipped scum.

Venmar · Sat May 06, 2023 5:18 am

choo choo

Venmar · Sat May 06, 2023 3:25 pm

In post 4237, ofrhz wrote:
In post 4232, Hu Tao wrote: I don't see these as scum interactions with scum. So I won't be voting sheep. Can we vote venmar or Malcom
Some of those posts seem like interacting for the sake of interacting tbh. I'd be open to voting Venmar though

In post 4236, ofrhz wrote: I'm ok giving sheep more time but still prefer him to Malcolm. Sheep doesn't seem very motivated to solve.... he says Malcolm/Sky doesn't make sense as a team (and he said this at the end of yesterDay too), but then where does he go from there?

In post 4242, ofrhz wrote: sheep has until Monday morning to convince me he's town or I bring out the ---------[]

Is there a reason you insist on shading me while being deliberately lukewarm on Sheep? I feel like the first two quoted posts are you going out of your way to scumread Sheep while saying you'd vote me also in the first post, and the third post just feels like theatre tbh like you're trying to build a case to vote Sheep while also not committing?

Venmar · Sat May 06, 2023 4:44 pm

In post 4252, ofrhz wrote: What did you mean by "going out of your way to scumread Sheep"?

I meant like it felt like you were trying to over-justify a scumread on Sheep when he's basically the consensus elim right now.

Venmar · Sun May 07, 2023 5:29 am

Could be convinced to pressure Malcolm, but Sheep just feels like the right elim right now?

Venmar · Sun May 07, 2023 3:29 pm

In post 4290, ofrhz wrote: Venmar went from a townlean --> voting Andante pretty quick and the justification was eh. 2967 feels like he backread the thread to pick out some Andante posts he didn't like to justify an Andante vote. 2862 wasn't a post he quoted when he was originally catching up.

Lol, if you actually read my ISO and more importantly the context around those posts you'd see that I also posted #2964 talking to Flavor Leaf and my read on Andante, and then Flavor dropped a huge case on her in #2967 and I voted Andante two posts later. I basically just decided to sheep Flavor tbh because he broke my logic for originally townreading Andante as laid out in 2964.

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 6:57 am

Sheep's claim is easy to corroborate if someone can confirm that they blocked him or someone protected Sky.

It's also a claim well-designed to draw out a town PR claim though so I'm taking it with a grain of salt for now

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 10:22 am

In post 4357, curiouskarmadog wrote: im here, not a lot of time to post, but just confirming I had nothing to do with the SKY/SHEEP situation.

going to put together my case/thoughts on Venmar.

zzzzzz

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 10:25 am

I think Kowah's outburst/rant/whatever in #4352 looks townie

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 4:56 pm

I don't fully understand why CKD is trying to force a claim out of NJAC, and I don't think I like it...? If I thought NJAC was scummy I would've said it but I don't have a reason to believe NJAC's action on me N1 was of much importance.

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 5:26 pm

In post 4426, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 4425, Venmar wrote: I don't fully understand why CKD is trying to force a claim out of NJAC, and I don't think I like it...? If I thought NJAC was scummy I would've said it but I don't have a reason to believe NJAC's action on me N1 was of much importance.
wow...Im doing a thing "you didnt like"...im shocked. I remember you also not liking me with Bub. Ask me if I give a rat's ass if you like a thing I am doing. I dont care WHO you think is scummy. No one asked you who you thought was scummy.

I think you are scum

lmao

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 5:31 pm

I think it's funnier to see how mad you get over literally nothing tbh

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 5:35 pm

You're literally trying to push NJAC into claiming lol, there's no way this reaction isn't just fake outrage, vote me all you want bud

Venmar · Mon May 08, 2023 5:47 pm

No, I mean, in my original post I said I didn't understand it and that I don't find anything about NJAC's role/action suspicious from my PoV, which is a basic explanation for my thoughts if you decided to have a shred of reading comprehension, you could've expanded or explained why you're trying to force NJAC to claim (which you are idk why you're acting like you're not) instead of going into a random tantrum, real or not lol. Just looks like AtE or just random rage

In post 4439, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 4437, Venmar wrote: You're literally trying to push NJAC into claiming lol, there's no way this reaction isn't just fake outrage, vote me all you want bud
now its fake outrage....well if it is fake, I must be scum right?

Also this just reads like too clever scum lol

I do scumread you but I'm not voting you because I still think Sheep is scum?

Venmar · Wed May 10, 2023 4:51 pm

^scum

Venmar · Sat May 13, 2023 4:49 am

In post 4578, ofrhz wrote: Whoever was visited by njac last night should claim that

Hi it was me

Venmar · Sat May 13, 2023 4:50 am

I've been checked out of this game for a while now but I'll try to recollect my thoughts after work today and respond later

Venmar · Sun May 14, 2023 9:48 am

I didn't hold my promise of catching up but maybe I will today.

NJAC visited me again last night. I am also VT

I agree that sheep's claim is hard to accept and that's why I never moved off of his wagon last night. Will probably vote there again after I read what I missed.

Venmar · Mon May 15, 2023 6:02 am

Tbh I don't have any real defense aside from that fact that NJAC jailing me N1 from my PoV means I must've been the target of the mafia kill on N1. I'm kind of a useless player but I feel like that also makes me an easy blank canvas kill N1. Also if I was scum who got blocked from making a kill by an announcing NJAC, don't you think NJAC would've died sooner than N4...?

Still think Sheep is scum since I think an unconfirmed vig just feels like a fakeclaim made with the knowledge that a scum flipped bp.

VOTE: Sheep

Venmar · Mon May 15, 2023 6:06 am

Yes I do. Are you claiming scum, or? I don't have a reason to doubt your mason claim.

Venmar · Mon May 15, 2023 4:06 pm

Venmar · Thu May 18, 2023 6:05 am

In post 4768, Hu Tao wrote: Venmar are you jail keeper y/n?

I claimed Vt already

Venmar · Thu May 18, 2023 6:08 am

Why are we assuming that 2nd JK is mafia anyways?

Venmar · Thu May 18, 2023 6:19 am

2nd JK is almost certainly town imo. Sky makes sense as a jail, probably the most obvious block target aside from me so Sky is probably clear if nobody wants to counterclaim being jailed.

Venmar · Thu May 18, 2023 3:48 pm

In post 4792, ofrhz wrote:
In post 4692, Venmar wrote: Tbh I don't have any real defense aside from that fact that NJAC jailing me N1 from my PoV means I must've been the target of the mafia kill on N1. I'm kind of a useless player but I feel like that also makes me an easy blank canvas kill N1. Also if I was scum who got blocked from making a kill by an announcing NJAC, don't you think NJAC would've died sooner than N4...?

Still think Sheep is scum since I think an unconfirmed vig just feels like a fakeclaim made with the knowledge that a scum flipped bp.

VOTE: Sheep
Why did you think maf attempted to kill you night 1?

:shrug: this is assuming NJAC saved me. Maybe mafia shot Furtive? Just a theory tbh

Venmar · Thu May 18, 2023 3:48 pm

In post 4793, ofrhz wrote: ^ did you think announcing jk was scum or town yesterday?

Never thought it was scum tbh

Venmar · Fri May 19, 2023 9:36 am