Micro 1082 - I’m the Real Tracker (Day 4)

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Donempire

hello everyone

[Kowahbunga]

I think Bingle's claim could literally break open the game if we just end the day now and assume everyone who is anyone is smart enough to do what needs to be done from here and come back on D2 with the potential of a ton of information to use.

VOTE: no lim

[Kowahbunga]

Hmm, I see. They could even both be scum, I suppose.

I still think day should end with no lim. Come back on D2 and discuss. I also strongly feel like a massclaim today would be fun.

[Kowahbunga]

I really feel like a no lim gets us to D2 with the most pieces of information. A lim maybe hits scum, but if it doesn't then that's one less piece to the puzzle we have. I'm 101% for a no lim today.

[Kowahbunga]

I feel a no lim is still our best option. Even with people disagreeing with me. Everyone has a power this game, even if you're a pretender, you're going to do something and get information. Which means everyone is going to be playing for their survival more than to solve today because everyone will be of the opinion they're important and need to see out the day so they can hopefully avoid the NK and get their ability off to save the day for town.

I do however think it's probably more advantageous than my usual "just end the day asap" to spend more time trying to solve the game and get a good feel for everyone so that everyone can target appropriately. We should not lim today.

[Kowahbunga]

I don't believe in meta reads at all and believe there is no way to use another game than this one to solve this game.

I think Merlyn's read on me is weak at best. Perhaps I would have put more stock in it had they given an opinion on what I was saying this game, rather than an opinion on me based on their experience with me from this game and another game.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Bingle

I have a gut feeling about them right now that just comes down to me feeling like their posts are fake.

[Kowahbunga]

Kowah, Invis and Delta- you are all saying that I have a weak read on Kowah, but I didn't say I was townreading Kowah at all. Seriously, here is the entire post:

I don't find it scummy for Kowah to suggest this, because I've played with them before when he was town and he did the exact same thing. I'm not saying he's right (I have no idea if he's right bc I've never seen anyone do it yet), but it's not scum indicative of them.

It's two whole sentences long. Delta said a thing that Kowah said was scummy, and I said it wasn't scummy bc I've seen him do it as town. I reiterated that it's not scum indicative. I didn't say he was a townread at all, I was saying it's NAI. Which, you know, it is.

I don't actually have any townreads yet at all, you're all leaning a little scummy to me lol.

I get what you're saying, but you have to also understand that you said "I don't find it scummy" and "but it's not scum indicative of them" - I'm sure you can see how we came to that conclusion.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Bingle

I have a gut feeling about them right now that just comes down to me feeling like their posts are fake.

can you give an example of one? because to me it's mostly been setup speculation which I read in a past game a long time ago iirc is either not alignment indicative or scum trying to generate posts, but everyone is doing it and it feels like this setup is particularly interesting so I do think it leans on nai since mostly everyone is doing it.

Spoiler:

Merlyn is probably town for the meta read. Also the meta read is shit.

Kowahs approach to no lim in both games is actually very different. Here it is an active advocacy and there it was a very bland aside that was barely mentioned. The read is incredibly surface level, insomuch as the only actual similarity is that kowah says they think no lims are a good way to play D1.

With that said, merlyn was scum that game, so the broad strokes kowah doesn’t like to lim d1 takeaway is expected, and her scumgame appears to be decent and based around a fairly good read of the player base. If she had been scum here, I would expect a far more careful meta read than the one that only barely resembles this one, and that she simply linked the game without attempting to justify it with context supports that it was a very cursory thing.

You were in that game, does it seem at all similar to kowah’s D1 here?

Do you agree that the games are only very superficially similar?

I think it came down to this, and I said the fake thing assuming Bingle would ask this question so I could get a response from them about but then they just agreed. So I'll use your question about my opinion to ask Bingle.

I'm reading the first quote two different ways and want to know which way you mean it.

"Also the meta read is shit."

@Bingle
Are you said the read Merlyn has is shit, or that just meta reading is shit?

[Kowahbunga]

said = saying*

[Kowahbunga]

Meta itself is a tool that can be applied well. In this particular case, I think Merlyn saw a particular thing and jumped to an unwarranted conclusion without poking further: I think that what you did in that game and what you're doing in this game are different enough that asking why they are different can definitely lead to alignment indicative information.

Can you elaborate on why you think no lim is good WITH discussion here, compared to why you wanted no discussion for no lim in the other game?

I believe I mentioned this but it was probably brief.

This game everyone is a town power today. So scum will shoot tonight and will hit one. Of course, best case is they snag a pretender. But until that flip happens, everyone is (and by is I mean they personally) are of the belief they're a town power. So from that POV, scum cannot find a town power they want to find. There is no way for them to say in scum chat "x is a town pr" and especially no real way for them to say "x is a specific town pr". With that now said, the point in the previous game, and others, is that hiding the town PRs with no conversation and just no lim voting allows a greater chance for all town prs to make something happen N1, gives scum nothing more than a shot in the dark to locate one, and to me the odds say N1 will be better for town a majority of the time if played like that.

In this game, since every town can submit a night action tonight, then might as well talk to help town decide who they want to target. Because it's essentially just a shot in the dark for scum on who actually to kill. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if scum have already decided. If scum has anyone who knows the general player base well enough, they've probably already got it in their head who is the most dangerous townie to keep around from a pure scum hunting POV and will just off that person tonight.

[Kowahbunga]

I can kind of understand why Kowah thinks that discussion doesn't hurt the proposed no lim, fwiw, and at this point I agree that the belief is a genuine one.

Kowah, what do you think about Merlyn's meta defense of you? Reasonable, unreasonable, banana?

I don't believe meta exists. I am fine with people using it if they feel they must, but to me it's usually coming from an egotistical mind set that "I'm able to solve this game when it can't be solved because of this other game". No one wants to admit that Day 1 is a crap shoot at best so someone invented meta reads as a way to act like they're special.

From my experience with them, this is not a reflection on Merlyn as they do not seem like an egomaniac or anything and this is just my opinion of the general use of meta.

The only real game thought I had from Merlyn making that post is that it was scummy from them and it was an over correction from the previous game we were in. It felt like an attempt to buddy me because they spent most of that game attacking me (scum!merlyn trying a different approach to me since I caught them at the end in that game), so they decided to mention a meta read from that game where I was town and (I felt) give me a soft town read, but then double backed and said it wasn't even a town read, which really didn't make any sense because all the wording really made me think it was, but then when they started seeing how many people picked up on it they wanted it to go back to neutral OR realized they were linking a game to this thread where they were scum and maybe they rolled scum again and didn't want anyone being able to use the same thing on them. It felt like they made the post and brushed it under the rug soon after. Like I get this is a huge stretch, but I am just opening up my thought process to put the thoughts into words. The meta read felt scummy to me, but I also think I'm overreacting to it. I also feel like I'm getting too close to letting meta guide my thoughts a bit here by using a previous game to support a reason someone is scum this game.

[Kowahbunga]

Delta, why did you answer Invis's question and not mine?

But my statement is backed up by something- Kowah doing this as town in our previous game together. You were actually there too, though you replaced out pretty early, but I think you were still around when Kowah started advocating a D1 no lim policy there too.

I don't like meta reading someone if they are used to doing scummy things as town. The reason people including me were suspect on his no-lim gameplan was because it would be forcing town into hibernation. Playing the game simply in mechanical terms would only benefit scum here. If that is how he plays as town!kowah, then we need to warn him that this helps scum and be suspicious of him anyways as the facts of the matter dont change. And fwiw, i don't buy meta reads, so i'm plainly reading people as per their actions, not their intentions.

I don't believe spitballing ideas itself is scummy. However i don't believe kowah has done enough to convince us of his game plan, which also with him abandoning his no-lim idea as he votes bingle makes it seem as though he wasn't that committed to it in the first place and was just saying it to get some content out.

Everyone will be able to provide information of what they did or what result they got tomorrow if they wanted to. To me this is amazing for town because I believe the game is a race of information. There is a finite amount of information this game has. Scum start with a head start but the sooner town can match the amount scum have, or simply pass it, then the sooner town should win.

To me it feels like this game used to have a bit more of a roleplay aspect to it from all players. But now days it seems more like scum can drop that charade and just get on with it while town feel like they've got to play this game like they're sherlock holmes, holding their cards close to their chest, and not wanting to give anyone else any info because they want all the glory to figure it out themselves.

I feel strongly right now that a game like this where everyone has a role, even if some roles aren't real, could be solved by a mass sharing of info on D1 followed by a no lim to maximize the info provided tomorrow. That scum would be unable to hide by the end of the game. But I think the disconnect between me and literally everyone else that plays, is that the whole town playerbase wants to win the game by limming scum every day until there's none left with the unrealistic goal of the entire town making it out alive. While I understand that's the spirit of the game, and that I'm probably playing against the spirt of the game, I'm just here trying to win. To me, to win a game of mafia is simple. You force scum to lie. The sooner they have less rocks to hide behind, the sooner they have to lie to hide, the sooner it's more likely someone catches them lying.

However, I'm not trying to ruin 8 other people's game. These are just my opinion of it, and I'm not going to stomp my feet until I get what I want. I bring it up, see what interest there is in my theory, and if it's dead on arrival like usual then I'll just fall in line and play the game that everyone wants to play.

[Kowahbunga]

176 and 183 make me feel like Donempire knows the roleblocker is town. Also 180 gives out a town read to someone for not wanting mech talk, unless I'm confused isn't suggesting where a roleblocker should go and mathing out the liklihood a roleblocker stops a night kill "mech talk" or do I not understand what mech talk means?

VOTE: donempire

[Kowahbunga]

Delta, why did you answer Invis's question and not mine?

But my statement is backed up by something- Kowah doing this as town in our previous game together. You were actually there too, though you replaced out pretty early, but I think you were still around when Kowah started advocating a D1 no lim policy there too.

I don't like meta reading someone if they are used to doing scummy things as town. The reason people including me were suspect on his no-lim gameplan was because it would be forcing town into hibernation. Playing the game simply in mechanical terms would only benefit scum here. If that is how he plays as town!kowah, then we need to warn him that this helps scum and be suspicious of him anyways as the facts of the matter dont change. And fwiw, i don't buy meta reads, so i'm plainly reading people as per their actions, not their intentions.

I don't believe spitballing ideas itself is scummy. However i don't believe kowah has done enough to convince us of his game plan, which also with him abandoning his no-lim idea as he votes bingle makes it seem as though he wasn't that committed to it in the first place and was just saying it to get some content out.

why didn't you warn kowah then that his actions were helping scum? and I feel like you are assuming a lot in kowah's intentions like he did x so y must be true it doesn't follow logically. In fact his inconsistency does give me pause let me do y but do x instead. I think that itself is worth exploring. at what point does someone go from 'spitballing' to advocating?

@ kowah how attached are you to no limming day 1?

I would hammer it right now if I could.

[Kowahbunga]

Also another News Flash for Bingle, outing the Pretenders early, isn't actually good for town.

Isn't this literally impossible to do without their flips? Not even scum can know who is a pretender until the flip. In fact, one of the scum could even be a pretender. So this post seems very odd.

[Kowahbunga]

Scum don't have usefull powerroles.

This seems like such a definitive point to make. I believe it further adds to how I currently feel about this slot.

Also, don't you think that scum getting roles that are more beneficial to town than to scum, a benefit to scum since town don't get them?

[Kowahbunga]

Also another News Flash for Bingle, outing the Pretenders early, isn't actually good for town.

So, probably the last time I’m engaging on this, because it’s already become a huge distraction from actually scumhunting, but what can I say: I can’t resist it.

Jason’s original advocacy for a mass pseudo claim introduces massive risk of mafia being able to narrow role likelihood down by the read type. If black targeted JW here, for example, even without my claim, everyone would pretty well be able to tell that wasn’t a doc shot and was probably about investigating. My claim doesn’t really change that.

What he has been doing is saying all of the things he sees as positive fallout from my claim (such as a roleblocker who is supposedly negative utility being able to target a low priority action if they choose) and trying to point power roles at specific people. A doctor could have the idea that I would be a night action magnet and protect me, or a doctor could think “Wow, neighbor is shit, I wouldn’t kill there” or a doctor could think “Man Bingle is an asshat; I hope that fucker dies.” JW is the one, through arguing specific potential lines of thought, that is actually aiming the doc at me, and the rb at me, and the tracker at me.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT EVERY PLAYER CHOOSE THEIR OWN TARGETS, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT TARGET IS ME. This denies scum access to the thought processes of the roles to scum.

Additionally, nothing I’ve done is about publicly outing the pretenders, but rather privately letting the pretenders themselves know they are pretenders.

Also, this is a micro. Potential XLO is D3 we absolutely want to have the pretenders know who they are before that point if we can.

VOTE: JW

If you could, because you seem like you know where to look and I'm more concerned with being caught up. Did JW tell the doc to target you? If so, where? If you don't get to it before I'm caught up, I'll find it, but if you have it quicker than me, great.

[Kowahbunga]

I don't believe meta exists.

/oog

It definitely does. I'm not going to pull up specific examples, but suffice to say that there are people with a certain amount of experience/dedication to reading that are able to have mostly accurate reads on certain people. There are also people who are so shit at one alignment or another that their alignment is pretty much always obvious. Generally though, when people make meta arguments they are doing so very poorly.

The kind of thing that meta is fairly universally good for, though, is determining what kind of person a player is. Like, JW is fairly aggressive, merlyn was pretty cautious from what I could tell, vizzy tends to be pretty go with the flow, you appear to be pretty open and I can't help but get bogged down in theory when the opportunity arises.

None of that can directly tell me someone's alignment, but it does provide a framework to guess at what they might be trying to do in this game, which does.

tl;dr- Meta is a tool to be used in conjunction with other tools. It is very rarely useful as a standalone.

To me I don't want to believe in it, because it's something that can be changed on a whim. People grow, their opinions change, if I finally see the light about "no lim d1 bad" my "meta" changes - the only thing is I don't announce this until the next game I play. There is not a forum I go to and declare my opinions and play style. It's way too fickle of a tool to use in my opinion. If it helps others, more power to them, but I'd rather be fooled by the play going on in the current game, than fooled by someone who knows their meta and uses it to fool me because I'm too concerned with with their meta in a previous game. At best, Meta is a D1 tool people can use to advance discussion. Past D1, it's no longer useful. I'm fine if you disagree with me.

[Kowahbunga]

The problem with your view of the game, Kowah, is that games are designed to not give enough information for town to actually be able to solve them simply through the use of night actions. A game like that can exist, but generally if you only approach the game looking at the information provided by cops/investigations/etc, you're going to lose.

Yes, we will probably end up eliminating town today, but in doing so we will narrow down the pool of players scum can be in. Think of the D1 lim as a cop shot that has the potentially good or bad side effect of leaving a corpse behind.

Night actions still provide information for the entire game to use. Maybe Person A has a strong power and uses it and provides the game the info they get but has no idea how to use it, but someone might. My suggestion is not a single power solves the game, but teamwork from providing as much information as we all can as quickly as possible so we don't take it to our grave, combined with a majority of town players all trying to piece the puzzle together makes me feel like you would get a positive win rate if you played 100 games like this as town. Maybe you don't win all of them, what fun would the game be if that was the case.

I'll go further, my argument for this is selfish. I want all the pieces in front of me to try and solve it. Maybe it's not the best way to play for town. I've been playing a long time, and have never convinced a town to do it yet. So I'm probably going to need that failure to happen before I concede my opinion.

[Kowahbunga]

What do you think of JW, Kowah?

I read ahead to see if you answered my request about the doc thing. I think that's a scum mindset through and through. I would lime JW or Don at this point.

Donempire JasonWazza would be my scum team.

[Kowahbunga]

Also another News Flash for Bingle, outing the Pretenders early, isn't actually good for town.

Isn't this literally impossible to do without their flips? Not even scum can know who is a pretender until the flip. In fact, one of the scum could even be a pretender. So this post seems very odd.

I mean, technically we could massclaim, determine which roles contained pretender slots lim one of those roles and have a pretty good shot at publicly outing pretenders on D2. That would also be a very stupid plan.

I guess what scares me most, and is likely entirely unavoidable, is the potential of lost information this game. It's going to happen, and I just don't want it to. Reading this post makes me no longer feel a mass claim is a good idea today. I stand by a no lim.

[Kowahbunga]

Delta, why did you answer Invis's question and not mine?

But my statement is backed up by something- Kowah doing this as town in our previous game together. You were actually there too, though you replaced out pretty early, but I think you were still around when Kowah started advocating a D1 no lim policy there too.

I don't like meta reading someone if they are used to doing scummy things as town. The reason people including me were suspect on his no-lim gameplan was because it would be forcing town into hibernation. Playing the game simply in mechanical terms would only benefit scum here. If that is how he plays as town!kowah, then we need to warn him that this helps scum and be suspicious of him anyways as the facts of the matter dont change. And fwiw, i don't buy meta reads, so i'm plainly reading people as per their actions, not their intentions.

I don't believe spitballing ideas itself is scummy. However i don't believe kowah has done enough to convince us of his game plan, which also with him abandoning his no-lim idea as he votes bingle makes it seem as though he wasn't that committed to it in the first place and was just saying it to get some content out.

why didn't you warn kowah then that his actions were helping scum? and I feel like you are assuming a lot in kowah's intentions like he did x so y must be true it doesn't follow logically. In fact his inconsistency does give me pause let me do y but do x instead. I think that itself is worth exploring. at what point does someone go from 'spitballing' to advocating?

@ kowah how attached are you to no limming day 1?

I would hammer it right now if I could.

Also another News Flash for Bingle, outing the Pretenders early, isn't actually good for town.

Isn't this literally impossible to do without their flips? Not even scum can know who is a pretender until the flip. In fact, one of the scum could even be a pretender. So this post seems very odd.

I mean, technically we could massclaim, determine which roles contained pretender slots lim one of those roles and have a pretty good shot at publicly outing pretenders on D2. That would also be a very stupid plan.

I guess what scares me most, and is likely entirely unavoidable, is the potential of lost information this game. It's going to happen, and I just don't want it to. Reading this post makes me no longer feel a mass claim is a good idea today. I stand by a no lim.

There is a disconnect in your thought process here. You say you would hammer a no-lim right now but then you go on to say that you don't really want to lose information this game. Do you not consider ending the Day on page 10 a loss of information? Because I do. Cutting discussion short like this would only benefit scum

I was trying to convey how much I would no lim. I've already said this day is fine to get info from because it will benefit the targeting of the powers.

[Kowahbunga]

I was trying to convey how much I would no lim. I've already said this day is fine to get info from because it will benefit the targeting of the powers.

but you would prefer to end it right now?

I do not think ending today early is as beneficial as I would in a more standard game. Today I think we should be looking into each other because all town should be trying to narrow down on a target for the night. I've stated this before. It was a poor choice of words to say I would hammer it right now, all I was saying is that I'm strongly for a no lim today.

[Kowahbunga]

176 and 183 make me feel like Donempire knows the roleblocker is town. Also 180 gives out a town read to someone for not wanting mech talk, unless I'm confused isn't suggesting where a roleblocker should go and mathing out the liklihood a roleblocker stops a night kill "mech talk" or do I not understand what mech talk means?

VOTE: donempire

weren't other people also talking like they assumed the RB would be town? That's weird reason to single out Donempire on

If they did, I didn't notice it or it didn't stick out to me like it did with Donempire.

[Kowahbunga]

I think Black and PC are town. If one isn't, I would say it's Black. At least one is, but I'm thinking both are.

[Kowahbunga]

I do not think ending today early is as beneficial as I would in a more standard game

Also I'm curious about this. I don't think ending the day early is ever really that beneficial. What are the benefits and why is this game different?

This is not important to this game, it will devolve the conversation away from the actual game here because it's just my opinion.

[Kowahbunga]

There's no way you can say 357 isn't relevant to the game so I'm still waiting on an answer to that

My town read on you and PC comes from the conversation you both had. on page 13 or 14. I thought PC asked some very good questions about the questions you were asking, and I was having the same thought about the same questions. Your 344 was a good retort to PC's concerns. So I liked the overall feeling of that conversation.

[Kowahbunga]

There's no way you can say 357 isn't relevant to the game so I'm still waiting on an answer to that

My town read on you and PC comes from the conversation you both had. on page 13 or 14. I thought PC asked some very good questions about the questions you were asking, and I was having the same thought about the same questions. Your 344 was a good retort to PC's concerns. So I liked the overall feeling of that conversation.

I still don't think PC's questions were very good but you're the second person to say this. It felt like he was trying to shade me more than actually solve me. Idk, maybe it's just me

I don't know about anyone else, but I never think a player's posts are good when they're questioning me and my motives.

[Kowahbunga]

I don't know about anyone else, but I never think a player's posts are good when they're questioning me and my motives.

I disagree with this mindset on a fundamental level

I'm not suggesting the posts aren't good. I'm just saying it's a lot easier to see the negative in a post when it's you coming under the microscope.

[Kowahbunga]

@don - your reasons to vote kowah are fair, i just disagree with them. i don't think it's lack of conviction in a no-execution plan that's causing them to abandon the idea and vote people anyway. my impression of their posting is that they see their plan is highly unlikely to go anywhere and find it pointless to keep pressing the issue. to me, that's a plausible mindset to have as town. kowah, feel free to correct me on any of that if i've misread your posting.

No correction needed, I'm nearly 100% sure I've said something like this already this game.

[Kowahbunga]

@don - your reasons to vote kowah are fair, i just disagree with them. i don't think it's lack of conviction in a no-execution plan that's causing them to abandon the idea and vote people anyway. my impression of their posting is that they see their plan is highly unlikely to go anywhere and find it pointless to keep pressing the issue. to me, that's a plausible mindset to have as town. kowah, feel free to correct me on any of that if i've misread your posting.

It's one way to read it. But i believe post 243 contradicts your logic, as he says he "doesn't want to ruin 8 people's game" for his pushing this plan. If your theory is right and he is town pushing an idea he finds plausible, why would he be worried pushing this further would damage the game? The way he talks about it, it's a strategy that would break open the game, his exact words in his second post. So why would he not be steadfast on such a good strategy? For me, the pressure was starting to mount on him with a small wagon forming, so he tried to go back to tried and truth mafia gaming instead of raising too much eyebrows by having to defend his idea. As scum, you wouldn't want to be put under the spotlight, as town though it shouldn't matter being on e-1 if you were sure of your strategy and wanted it implemented.

Also the way he said 8 people is also suspect to me, as for town!kowah that also includes the 2 scum. Might be a personality thing, but if i had a button that revealed the 2 scum with no strings attached, i would press it as well as post mocking videos after the fact. So unless it's his conscience getting the best of him, why would he be afraid of ruining the game of scum? Maybe i'm overthinking it.

I understand your point. As scum you don't really have a benefit in pushing a dead on arrival strategy with such fervor. Since we've talked about his posts in detail already, i would also say it's important to consider how much of his posting has malice and how much of it has to do with ineptidute.

also, what's your read on pc right now?

I know I'm in a very small minority of people that feel the way I do about the game of mafia. In fact I've yet to see anyone agree with me since coming back to this site. If I bring it up, I see if anyone else is interested. It doesn't change my opinion, but do you think if I sat here stomping my feet trying to convince 8 people to play this game way differently than anyone plays this game, that it would be good for this game?

[Kowahbunga]

Well, according to my tracker ability. Black visited Invisibility last night.

[Kowahbunga]

What am I missing here? I targeted Kowah (not Invis) so that makes Kowah a Pretender, but then why wouldn't Kowah show up as visiting me in Invisibility's result?

Why would I get a result if you roleblocked me?

[Kowahbunga]

Wait, I'm the pretender. I got a result, but Invis tracked me and that's why I didn't visit anyone. So you actually did roleblock me.

[Kowahbunga]

wait so if the pretender is RB'd they still get a result right

Im on mobile and dont feel like looking it up. But I imagine a pretender doesnt have any real power to block. So I would still get a result if I was a pretender because nothing real actually happened.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Don

Then I'm happy starting here because this was my scum read yesterday.

[Kowahbunga]

do I track Appearance or Black?

I personally think Black is prob town.

[Kowahbunga]

Is it worth it at all for me to submit a night action just in case somehow I'm not a pretender?

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: no lim

[Kowahbunga]

I tracked Black again, they visited Bingle according to my result.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: drew

[Kowahbunga]

Wouldn't today be another good no lim day?

[Kowahbunga]

I feel like Black forgetting to roleblock feels scummy. Because if Bingle and I are confirmed town, then his only target would have been Don, which would have stopped the NK. He couldn't fake that result because there would be too many alive still for us to lim Don, get a green flip, and then just lim Black. So reasonable doubt created by "forgetting" to RB.

But man 650 seems soooo weird.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: donempire

[Kowahbunga]

Speaking of which, I did lie about not being able to send in my role, obviously. I was here Saturday afternoon when Night hit. I thought the only way I could win was say I wasn't around to RB and then blame it on the 24 night deadline

I literally only voted Don because I wound up deciding I was going to believe this.

[Kowahbunga]

Speaking of which, I did lie about not being able to send in my role, obviously. I was here Saturday afternoon when Night hit. I thought the only way I could win was say I wasn't around to RB and then blame it on the 24 night deadline

I literally only voted Don because I wound up deciding I was going to believe this.

The reason I decided agreeing with it, was because I also missed sending in a target for that night because it did seem like it went fast.