Open 884: Another Newbie Game | Game Over!

[Dunnstral]

@OopsieDaisy: For what reason did you look back at your previous game?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Dunnstral]

pokes game with a stick

i was hoping my vote switch would prompt *something* from people but apparently not lol

gotta keep in mind this is only a 7 day day phase, if we just sit and twiddle our thumbs that deadline will really sneak up on us.

Also that is 3 am my time

[Dunnstral]

I like Dannflor right now. He's provided several reads on the current goings on in the game and that's always a good thing for getting us out of RVS and progressing the game. Do I agree with his sus read on Kitty? Ehh idk. Seeing Kitty trying to prompt activity from the game is a very big change of pace from our last game together where Kitty ended up being one of the more inactive players, but that was also a very different environment since there were a lot of big active players in that game.

In theory if someone's playing differently from the last time I played with them and they were town in that scenario, I should be sus, but I like the attitude from Kitty so far even if I recognise it's outside of my experience with em, so it prolly falls to a null read for now.

By several you mean two? This read feels rushed, I don't think Dannflor has done that much yet

[Dunnstral]

what do you think of the people who voted you for that post?

I'm more surprised that Dunn has chosen to not vote for me despite feeling that my read is rushed there.

The votes from y'all don't necessarily ping me because the reasons you suspect me align with reasons other town players have found my playstyle suspicious in other games on the site. I'm a very performative player so I'm basically the walking definition of LAMIST.

I'm not sure if I should be voting for you. I said your read was rushed but that doesn't mean you are mafia. I wouldn't be confident enough to put you to e-1 just for kicks anyways.

[Dunnstral]

Something I felt was a little weird was that OopsieDaisy's initial vote on me was just to tie my wagon to Gamma's wagon, but then later it felt like their internal reasoning for the vote on me had changed.

I think you're reading a bit much into 65/69
Of course my reads are gonna be shallow, there's very little to go on, and even when there is I tend to have a handful of reads that are shallow still
and I wasn't just pointing out an inconsistency, I was asking about it. There's a difference.

maybe!

ig also im a little surprised you didn't try to engage more with oopsie or the people scum reading her if you were finding yourself town reading her

I think this is a good point

[Dunnstral]

I think my concerns generally revolve around you and Dunnstral

Because we were/are voting you?

[Dunnstral]

That’s a part of it but not all of it

What is the rest of it?

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I’m okay with gamma towny for right now

I don't really understand what you guys are saying above

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I’m okay with gamma towny for right now

I don't really understand what you guys are saying above

is this at me too?

No, it was at Gamma and Dannflor

I'm saying I think Gamma is vaguely towny and I'm okay with just going with that read for right now

I don't understand what you guys are talking about with predicting your read change on Gamma

[Dunnstral]

I'm getting a bit worried about Purplemango. He pretty much said that his plan is to not advance the game. Yes, he is new and so a lot can be explained and forgiven through that, but where do you draw the line then? Being new shouldn't give immunity either.

Will see what Cook comes up with and decide after that.

I don't think that is what they said. I believe they meant that they are busy so pressure on them wouldn't produce content.

[Dunnstral]

Cook going to E-1 basically just for lurking makes me uncomfortable

I think promises to catch up with no follow through are like marginally more likely to cone from scum

I don’t love the naked unvote

Idk I’m not scum reading any of the active posters so this seems better

I think the first point holds water
VOTE: Cook
@Dunnstral I basically picked up a cue that may or may not have been there. I think there is a route of logic that makes Dann scum but it feels improbable.

It kinda presumes Dann as scum not genuinely sorting purplemango, as if he was genuinely sorting him, I don’t see why Dann would have me slotted as scum already,

I would guess that sorting would have the intent to sort me by extension.

The bolded does not make sense to me. What is the correlation?

[Dunnstral]

I didn't realize we were so close to deadline.

[Dunnstral]

Gamma I don't know what it means to "pre-sort as scum" or if that is a scum tell or what. Or if it's something town do?

[Dunnstral]

Are you saying that Dannflor already decided that you were mafia?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure where to vote here

[Dunnstral]

First of all, I can see that a lot of thought went into your post above.

I wonder why you are placing a lot of weight in Cook's reads. OopsieDaisy was killed by the mafia, but Cook was eliminated during the day, and it's not for certain how much of a part mafia played in that, or if it was an elimination of convenience rather than due to their reads. We know Cook was town, but I don't believe we have a reason to place importance on Cook's reads.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: cook my heart isn't in this daisy vote let's try this

very sleep-deprived but i'm still ok with my vote

This vote seems particularly weak. It's not clear why you are voting for cook or why you are still ok with it.

[Dunnstral]

It wasn't sarcasm!

[Dunnstral]

I don't think scum claims anything except VT here. I do think Cook is... the least bad choice. The game is quiet so scum can easily blend in by either lurking or being moderately active-- both strats work well at this size so I really don't know. But...

like this over explanation feels guilt ridden

I disagree I don't think mafia feels the need to hammer there

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: cook my heart isn't in this daisy vote let's try this

very sleep-deprived but i'm still ok with my vote

This vote seems particularly weak. It's not clear why you are voting for cook or why you are still ok with it.

it was pretty weak ig, i wanted to vote in the less active slots cause i had a bunch of townreads from the people who were posting. will get to this more deeply today or tomorrow

Who were your townreads?

[Dunnstral]

don't think town feels any guilt about hammering a slot at deadline

I think it would be the inverse? I can attest the being flipped at deadline essentially just for knowledge sucks so being the one to hammer would probably feel bad as town.

I think I just want to know why Kitty felt the need to justify their hammer on Cook

I also don't really get or agree with the idea that scum would've claimed VT there

Because I barely scumread Cook?

What makes you think that mafia would have claimed VT instead of a power role to try to get more information?

[Dunnstral]

Has Dann out efforted us?

Not meant to be a dig, I just don't see it that way.

[Dunnstral]

:right:

can you expand on what about gamma's behavior seems scummy?

and also what about infinity looks town to you?

I didn't see the votes lmao
ok i re-read things that were written, mainly I based my suspicion on the vote towards me and a few other things, I didn't really pay attention to the conversation that was with you, so I guess that removes the suspicion from her a bit

I don't think as scum it works for me that they kill oppsiedaisy, Considering they voted for her and were among the most active to kill her in the first place.

Mainly based on this
Why do you think they're scum?

What do you mean by the bolded here?

[Dunnstral]

I actually think Gamma comes off looking bad here with your claim in mind. If they are mafia they do have to defend you to a certain extant, as they know that you know that they know, in a word.

Their defense of you is basically saying that there is mafia between Infinity and Dannflor, their reasoning is implied to be that they know you are town because of your role, but does it really make sense for Gamma to decide there must be mafia between Infinity and Dannflor with only that information? To me it seems like they should have another reason, such as saying their push is disingenuous or the way they are going about it seems like mafia.

It reads to me like setting up the elimination, as they would know you wouldn't be the elimination today.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Dunnstral]

Pushing is not exclusive to voting :igmeou:

How does this fit into what I said?

[Dunnstral]

You are saying I’m saying scum is within Infinity and Dannflor
My response is refuting that by explaining how your scope is too narrow

You are voting for Purplemango right now, were they pushing Kitty?

[Dunnstral]

Not particularly, but:

I don't have an opinion on [Dann] or kittytacky that is relevant right now, I have no problem killing him, I'd rather not [Dann]

This is just bothers the shit out of me. What the fuck is the distinction that makes Kitty okay to let die but Dann not? This feels like the type of shit I would pull as scum, making arbitrary distinctions in my approach to players to warp the solving landscape.
Also: I think that is the least constructive response you could have posted to my push. It looks like you are trying to nitpick away my position. IF YOU ARE TOWN,

STOP

.

The connection between your original broad accusation that mafia were pushing KittyTacky, and pointing to Purplemango seems to be pretty weak. You can call it nitpicking if you want, your explanation here makes sense but it is not the position you previously had, all you had originally said was that mafia were pushing KittyTacky.

I don’t vibe with Dunn’s push on Gamma

I think it’s reasonable to see people pushing someone you know is a conftown and often LHF and conclude that scum is likely to be pushing there even if you have no other evidence

But as I pointed out above, Purplemango was not pushing KittyTacky. They were merely not townreading them.

[Dunnstral]

dunn/purple maybe

It's not clear how you got here. Also Dann is right, you did say you were going to reconsider Dann in 381, and then again in 403, but then say you don't think they are mafia. And this seems to be without actually doing any reconsideration.

Going back to 259, I think your vote and reasoning here are suspicious.

VOTE: Infinity 324

[Dunnstral]

You are the one who said that you should reconsider Dann.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

dunn where are your reads at

I read up to current

KittyTacky > Mr. K > Gamma Emerald > DannFlor > Purplemango > Infinity 324

Makes sense to me. Gamma was tracked nowhere so is more likely to be town. I think the claim as a cc is more likely to be real than the claim under duress.

[Dunnstral]

If I had answered before claims I'd be more suspicious of Gamma, but Mr. K seemed pretty town to me beforehand

[Dunnstral]

We are in setup 1B with the mafia rolecop. Gamma Emerald got tracked going nowhere on night 1. Infinity flipped goon, so the remaining mafia is the rolecop. That means for Gamma to be mafia they would have had to have holstered their action on night 1. I think I am comfortable calling them town for that reason.

[Dunnstral]

it would be really helpful if purple mango came in and just gave a couple thoughts on each player

I am basing the reads (?) on things that are not really significant and just made sense to me

I think gamma scum based on it's behavior on the first day, and her suspicions (although they do also make sense given the things said)
I don't have an opinion on you or kittytacky that is relevant right now, I have no problem killing him, I'd rather not you
But it's still makes sense to me that in the end you are scum
infinity looks like town to me, not sure about a specific reason and can be changed
That leaves mostly dunn/mr k which I don't really know about either, but mr k acts like town


Please tell me if I forgot someone who plays

In this post and you have Infinity and Mr. K as town, Gamma Emerald as mafia, KittyTacky as 'can die', and then your read on Dannflor isn't clear (you don't call them town but don't want them to die) and then me in poe.

Also it has just dawned on me that you say Infinity is town but you don't have your reasoning yet, which was:

can you expand on what about gamma's behavior seems scummy?

and also what about infinity looks town to you?

I didn't see the votes lmao
ok i re-read things that were written, mainly I based my suspicion on the vote towards me and a few other things, I didn't really pay attention to the conversation that was with you, so I guess that removes the suspicion from her a bit

I don't think as scum it works for me that they kill oppsiedaisy, Considering they voted for her and were among the most active to kill her in the first place.
Mainly based on this
Why do you think they're scum?

It doesn't make sense to me that you had Infinity as town before this as you don't seem to have another reason to townread them, and you apparently hadn't thought up this one until about an hour and a half after your initial post. So it seems like you should have them closer to null, not a townread, in your initial post.

Plus I feel Dannflor did play an active part in getting Infinity eliminated yesterday.

VOTE: Purplemango

[Dunnstral]

Well played...

Dannflor

.

VOTE: Dannflor

[Dunnstral]

I got targeted by the friendly neighbor by Kitty last night

[Dunnstral]

So I'm clear. And Gamma is clear. Scum in Dunn, Dann, Purple. I don't think it's Dunn.

I agree with it likely not being Dunn

Gamma posted this as one of their final posts. You would kill Gamma over Kitty if you believed you had a better chance at convincing Kitty than Gamma in final three.

[Dunnstral]

As of post 400 the VC is KittyTacky + Dannflor on Infinity. I vote for Infinity in 407, bringing them to e-1, and in 419 Dannflor unvotes Infinity. Dannflor then votes for purplemango in 426. In post 442 Gamma brings Infinity back to e-1, and Dannflor is the one to give intent to hammer this time. Shortly after this, Infinity does fake claim which draws out the counterclaim from Mr.K.

In this series of events Dannflor is behaving unnaturally. They are fine with voting for Infinity until I bring them to e-1, but they don't seem to be accusing me at this point, instead pointing to other people. When Infinity is brought back to e-1 by Gamma and it looks like they are going over, they quickly change their mind again and say infinity could be paired with purple. It doesn't feel natural to me that even though Dannflor had no problem with me at the time, and KittyTacky had already claimed friendly neighbor, my vote still caused them to unvote when they were still pushing Infinity at the time.

[Dunnstral]

There isn’t any reason I wouldn’t be okay with putting infinity to e-2 and not e-1

That simply isn't true. At this point you have the friendly neighbor claimed and you know there is a rolecop. You know that town has a tracker or a jailkeeper, both would be deadly to you if left alive, such as if infinity was randomly hammered without a claim.

If infinity doesn't get the cc from Mr.K, and you kill the wrong person at night, you are looking at somebody else being cleared. Since you are the rolecop, then if that person is a tracker with 2 clears, you would be put in an auto lose situation. Same for jailkeeper, actually. They can block one person, and then claim and say who they are blocking the next day. That is another auto lose situation for mafia, and that is why when Infinity went to e-1 you'd have to try to slow things down.

[Dunnstral]

Look at who infinity interacts with, I’m pretty sure dunn and Infinity interact like exactly once and it is when dunn votes infinity

Again, this simply isn't true if you look at my iso. I've interacted with Infinity several times.

[Dunnstral]

Do not typo

[Dunnstral]

If KittyTacky dies over Gamma we are left with Gamma who says they don't think I am mafia and they vote out Dannflor.

By killing Gamma Dannflor gets to play up the wifom about how it is so different and they'd h ave no motive etc.

Basically they did something that looks silly because they believed themself to be in a rough position in order to try to create enough doubt to win.

Dannflor has no easy end game here.

[Dunnstral]

If Infinity got eliminated without claiming you would have been in auto loss.

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

I suppose I underestimated KittyTacky.