Toriel's Patience (end)

[Dannflor]

i'd support you on beeboy, dunn

[Dannflor]

...
Do you not consider Ydra a highly townread slot?

Why is Freedom less likely to be scum from this?

I didn't wagon Freedom D1 either

I can't tell if I'm misunderstanding or if this is a mistep.

i do consider ydrasse to be a highly town read slot ?

i don't think freedom is less likely to be scum

i just don't think wagoning him makes any difference in the game state than d1

[Dannflor]

Like, you can be honest with me, is your OMGUS mostly just an emotional reaction?

This is a loaded question btw.

ok sorry

[Dannflor]

i don't think fight is a good idea

i think dunnstral is probably town

i think it's unlikely we spare scum 2/3 times after dunnstral and i think it's many worlds more likely that scum can influence the game enough to produce enough miselims to win the game

like i think fight just gives scum way more agency

[Dannflor]

the spite in 2976 is towny

[Dannflor]

you can just spare everyone not on the d1 wagon alisae

[Dannflor]

sakura can we talk

[Dannflor]

is your main issue with my posting that i am scum reading you with bad reasons or are there other concerns

[Dannflor]

is your main issue with my posting that i am scum reading you with bad reasons or are there other concerns

Yes

okay

[Dannflor]

i was hoping you could like kinda talk more about that but it feels like you don't really want to talk to me

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

I doubt

Bingle

or

RCE

are scum.

why bingle

[Dannflor]

I think Dann is now my top townread for silly reasons but they're here.

i'd be interested in the silly reasons fwiw

[Dannflor]

we only need to have like 6 very confident town reads

[Dannflor]

I think freedom flipping scum spews mandate town fwiw taly

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

I mean that's exactly the point I made which went over your heads.

He doesn't state a read. But if you read through you can figure out exactly what it is at all times and it isn't a lazy townread.

Why are you going through his posts looking for him to state a read when I said explicitly it's an out of game narrative . Read his posts and try to figure out his read on me

Is this about Dann? He definitely did state a read on you, I remember bc I thought he was talking about me

yeah, all right VOTE: Mandate

Merlyn this is your chance to be a big player:
Explain why your read on me has changed to the extent that you are now voting me.

Am gonna get to my Dannflor towncase but I want to follow up on this promptly

where did my read change?

So you've been scumreading me this whole game and the fact that I think my read on Dannflor is something complicated and hard to explain is what prompts you to act on that?

I've said all the thoughts that I've had about you as I've had them

I'm not voting you because you have a 'hard to explain read'. I'm voting you because when Ari pushed you about your read you got defensive really quickly and said that you could psychically read the thoughts of the person you had a townread on. And I wondered how'd you respond to a little bit more pressure

this push onto mandate isn't SvS

[Dannflor]

it's a combination of mandate talking down to merlyn + merlyn kinda avoiding directly engaging with mandate with the vote

if scum it reads more like an opportunistic push onto town than anything else

[Dannflor]

idk if it helps you sakura but im not really scum reading you anymore

[Dannflor]

VOTE: freedom

[Dannflor]

Taly are you amenable to being first spared

[Dannflor]

I think keyleth should be in your towncore taly

Like if i got unilateral control over spares I would go taly then keyleth and then just win with me

[Dannflor]

I like committing to sparing you first taly if you’re okay with it just because i think that narrows scum win con a lot and makes it much more obvious who is playing to be spared and who isn’t

[Dannflor]

Maybe sakura can be a spare in case of night kills

I have thought implosion should be up there too but I should probably revisit that

[Dannflor]

Mandate/Ydrasse is my spare pool too but im guessing that’s more controversial

I think Taly first

We see what the night kill is

Then we can discuss and scum only have two chances to sneak someone in

It seems like good odds to me

[Dannflor]

Tbh I have a couple spare picks I feel pretty good about that I haven’t mentioned but I’d like to not talk about them too much until there’s a narrower window for night kills

[Dannflor]

freedom picking only one person to town read and that person being someone who hasn't really been in the mix to be spared feels like antispew personally

[Dannflor]

town core is like implosion, taly, keyleth, ydrasse

This feels like a really gross towncore. Like... I'm never comfortable hard townreading Ydrasse after too many games of watching Mena do that and lose hard. Taly is probably just the leader here and the more I think about the gamestate being weird the more I think that's not really townreadworthy-ish. I'll admit I've been falling into the trap of letting Taly be my rock to kind of guide me, but I don't know that there's something he's done to deserve that. Implo is solidly null for me, and a hard townread there is just :/ And legitimately I can't remember shit for keyleth's alignment.

I explained my implo town read like a few times over and no one engaged with it

I feel like implosion is someone that people desperately want to stay in the poe

Ydrasse is not that hard to read in my opinion and that also ignores that there is a large volume of content by mandate that can be town read

It feels a bit like you lead with the conclusion that this is a gross town core and then tried to justify that

[Dannflor]

VOTE: bingle

[Dannflor]

I don’t know the reasons for scum reading him are just so nebulous aside from Meuh’s d1 case

I feel like there have been very loud voices such as mandate and myself who have voiced a town read on him for specific reasons and that hasn’t really been engaged with

Scum need to angle to be in the spare pool and if there too many townies in the spare pool than the game becomes impossible to win for scum

[Dannflor]

That’s why I’ve also been suspicious of voices like sakura and bingle (and alisae) who have pushed a deep wolf dannflor narrative for reasons I can’t really comprehend

I think I have the ability to obv town when I need to but i think the deep wolf narrative is an easy one to push without a lot of substance behind it and keeps me out of the spare pool

[Dannflor]

for legal purposes im not saying i scum read sakura in the above post

sakura please do not get angry at me

[Dannflor]

shirou can you summarize the beeboy meta town case

[Dannflor]

i don’t think you played hard enough if you don’t look back at your posts after the game is finished and cringe at least once

[Dannflor]

i don't think alisae is town anymore

[Dannflor]

alisae just feels like eir imitating eir town game

[Dannflor]

like i think alisae would've found something to actually care about by now and i don't get the vibe alisae actually cares about anything

[Dannflor]

dropping the push on me feels weird too

[Dannflor]

and i thought the push for fight was too scummy to be scum at first but now im feeling like it's the imitation of a real town thought

[Dannflor]

having just finished a game with town!ali where they were apathetic for large stretches of the game

they still had stuff they cared about when they did pop in? idk eir recent posting has just seemed like a huge drop off i don't really believe e isn't just taking random ass stances to take stances

[Dannflor]

i don't know what the fuck to make of you bingle

i don't know if it's because you're scum or because you are a replacement in a 130 page game but it kinda feels like you're just looking for an excuse to not really play the game or have to read anyone and if you're town that's really annoying and probably one of the main ways we can lose this game

[Dannflor]

how do you feeel about

freedom

probably scum

I think ali/freedom actually makes a lot of sense too

[Dannflor]

I’m also running into an issue where I have keyleth kind of high in towniness and it’s mostly because of other people pointing out things they think are townie about keyleth and nothing I’m seeing them doing and idk how to feel about it.

Taking my own advice and making it a later problem though.

i don't really understand this take RCE

either you see what other people are pointing out and you see it too and agree with it or you disagree with it

i don't understand why you have keyleth high in towniess if you aren't seeing it yourself

[Dannflor]

do you have town reads at a spare level besides taly/ali, RCE

[Dannflor]

VOTE: freedom

[Dannflor]

im so fucking smart

unironically im keeping some town reads in my back pocket that i don't want to case until it's actually time to spare them

[Dannflor]

dunnstral are you scum

[Dannflor]

that's disheartening

[Dannflor]

we still go mercy

I personally don't really want to talk about reads too much until people have to vote to spare people

[Dannflor]

taly freedom was going to die there without you pushing him

[Dannflor]

dann

what made you choose the

freedom

vote ultimately?

i thought he was scum

you mean over bingle or alisae?

[Dannflor]

you're not being a bad townie taly i don't even think of you as really leading on either wagon

[Dannflor]

yeah

bingle's alignment is annoying

enough people hard town read alisae that that lim wasn't happening

enough people i hard town read were pushing freedom

it felt good!

[Dannflor]

like, if im a UTR and pressuring the scumteam, why wouldnt i get pushback for it?

could also be a way of getting your voice out of the game quickly

I mean, realistically, I don't think scum would be trying to undermine your position just because that's a sure fire way to get pressure put on them

It's partially why I am thinking Bingle might be town here

[Dannflor]

HEAL:

[Dannflor]

Does anyone have any objections about this pool of spares?

[Taly, Keyleth, Dannflor, Kyouko, Ydrasse]

I dont see how we lose this.

why aren't you including yourself?

[Dannflor]

"I don't see how we lose this"

top 10 lines said before disaster

[Dannflor]

Does anyone have any objections about this pool of spares?

[Taly, Keyleth, Dannflor, Kyouko, Ydrasse]

I dont see how we lose this.

why aren't you including yourself?

Doesn't look like anyone wanna spare me, and i dont really care at this point.

i feel like a lot of people have been town reading you?

who would you replace yourself with if you had to?

[Dannflor]

Everyone should succinctly give their spare order of 3.

i feel like im repeating myself but this isn't a good idea

[Dannflor]

while it gives scum info, it also pushes them to give a plan that must serve them

yes i think this is a good thing to do when we actually have to put spare votes on the line but right now it doesn't really serve us

people can just say whatever in this phase

[Dannflor]

yes mercy is the consensus or it should be

[Dannflor]

honestly even if the EV were equal for spare and fight i think spare is just better in practice

it's a lot easier for scum to be the least scummy than it is for them to be the most towny, yknow?

like there are plenty of normal games where scum never infiltrates "the town block" but they still win because they just manage to dodge lims and redirect lims onto the next scummiest slot a few times in a row and then boom you're in F3 and anything can happen. Fight just gives scum more chances to win whether they are in "the town block" or not, because suddenly scum in positions that were never gonna get spared have agency to actually affect the game.

i think dunnstral is town but even if dunnstral is scum, or even if god forbid taly is scum, the red flip of a widely town read scum is going to be a fucking gold mine for associations.

we lose if it's exactly dunnstral/taly i admit but i think scum just win regardless if that is the case

[Dannflor]

like if shirou is scum for instance i think they are fully capable of dodging lims for 3-4 days

idk that they are getting spared as scum though

[Dannflor]

dunnstral flip waiting room

[Dannflor]

what changed with your sakura read?

[Dannflor]

i do kind of feel that ive been scum reading sakura's personality and every time i've taken a step back from the game and tried to look at her actions more objectively I end up town reading her

[Dannflor]

freedom picking only one person to town read and that person being someone who hasn't really been in the mix to be spared feels like antispew personally

Does antispew mean scum!Freedom is spewing a teammate scum!Alisae or does it mean scum!Freedom is giving a token opinion on a slot that is not really in the mix because he doesn't want to influence the current sparepool by commenting on it after he flips scum?

Obviously Freedom flipped town I just don't know exactly what antispew means - whether it is spew on the scumteam or just trying to avoid town/scum-spew

it means just giving as little info as possible

obviously i was wrong but i feel like picking a top town read that was basically inconsequential basically gave us 0 associatives to work off of

[Dannflor]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

:eyebrows:

[Dannflor]

taly please say its me pleaaaase say its me say im town say it so they kill me please

town

[Dannflor]

I think I have enough spare candidates now that I probably won't push to spare myself Shirou, if that makes you feel any better

although a lot is dependent on dunnstral's alignment

[Dannflor]

kind of hate how much we're talking about things right now in general tbh

[Dannflor]

i think talking about spares in pairs is a very good idea

I think it should probably all wait til after the dunnstral flip at the very least

[Dannflor]

I think he’s town tbh

[Dannflor]

Snip

I’ve also seen alisae play that way as scum recently

[Dannflor]

dunnstral flip waiting room

[Dannflor]

You know what’s funny

Aside from RCE

I really like Alisae’s spare pool

[Dannflor]

Kyouko/Keyleth

One of those would probably be my next heaven request after Taly

Taly you should probably town case Lazy Shirou if you believe in that read

[Dannflor]

also kinda back to town reading alisae maybe that’s crazy but im feeling wild!!

[Dannflor]

V/LA for 24 hours

Probably not gonna post much, visiting family

[Dannflor]

Idk so im pretty worried scum are exclusively playing towards getting town read only by the townies who are *still gonna be alive* when it comes to making the final spare decision or two

so i kinda think the hard pocketing of alisae by RCE might be nefarious

[Dannflor]

I think Lazy Shirou might be scum but if he is he’s angling to be an earlier spare

I do feel like sakura and bingle are both in this liminal space where aside from me they’ve been kinda trying not to piss anyone off

I think Sakura probably that’s just how Sakura plays the game

I think bingle most fits the bill as someone angling to get spared but not really and also deliberately pushing against the most widely town read people (taly)

[Dannflor]

VOTE: taly

[Dannflor]

I think Lazy Shirou might be scum but if he is he’s angling to be an earlier spare

I do feel like sakura and bingle are both in this liminal space where aside from me they’ve been kinda trying not to piss anyone off

I think Sakura probably that’s just how Sakura plays the game

I think bingle most fits the bill as someone angling to get spared but not really and also deliberately pushing against the most widely town read people (taly)

This is literally the opposite perception I've had of

Shirou's

posting since D3

I don’t know what you are saying your opposite perception is

I think Shirou has quite clearly been playing to be town read and putting in quite a bit of effort despite the Lazy persona

I don’t think “trying to get town read” makes someone scum alone but I don’t think it’s accurate to say he’s not doing that

As far as the AtE goes… idk i kind of think shirou scum is probably pretty frustrated in this gamestate? I don’t really see a way a team of like, shirou/rce/bingle can win this game and I’m sure I would be quite frustrated to roll scum in a player list that can town it up so effectively. I also think the replacement of beeboy by kyouko is very good for us and not really something scum could have played around

Unless I’m way off and the scum team is like keyleth/mandate/sakura I think it makes a lot of sense for scum to be frustrated right now

I also think the game shifting to town casing/pushing rather than scum hunting should be motivating for town not demotivating but maybe I’m projecting

[Dannflor]

I also just think the whole “dunn is definitely scum” “dunn maybe is town” thing before he’d flipped felt performative

Like I don’t really know what the point was of shirou posting several long posts *casing* Dunn as both scum and town other than to look like he was doing something

[Dannflor]

Also like just because i didn’t explain my read flip on alisae and just because im not playing to get town read by you taly doesn’t mean im scum

[Dannflor]

I know it doesn’t really matter at this point but i just think your reads are disproportionately affected by ppl specifically playing around you and doing the things you like

sorry if that’s mean

it is just mildly annoying that you’ve achieved a correct read on me several times this game and then take it back because i like don’t explain a read flip as if i couldn’t make up a justification as scum

[Dannflor]

bye taly

[Dannflor]

(I've started to think that Ali is indeed scum though, to be clear)

I think Ali/RCE would be too obvious though, one may be pocketed by the other

what makes you think alisae over RCE

[Dannflor]

bai bai

[Dannflor]

me and ali being partnered is very funny

[Dannflor]

I have an under the radar spare pick i will probably case tomorrow that i think just wins the game

[Dannflor]

fear kill me or you’ll hurt my feelings

[Dannflor]

no

taly

I am here to take up the mantle of hyper poster

[Dannflor]

jk im gonna lurk until flip now bye

[Dannflor]

sorry i was mean to you earlier taly you did not deserve that

assuming you are town you played very well this game

I think even just getting us a guaranteed first town spare is like incredibly worth and makes it massively more likely to win

[Dannflor]

I mean if you’re scum i guess you played incredibly too but you know what im saying

[Dannflor]

im good with fast night

[Dannflor]

VOTE: kyouko

[Dannflor]

I'm not completely opposed to an alisae spare but I don't really trust RCE or Sakura and it's kind of weirding me out how quickly this has been pushed over kyouko who feels like... just obviously the best spare today

[Dannflor]

Okay. I think kyouko is probably town. Alisae also a decent chance of being town but I just think Kyouko has the greatest chance to flip town in the game right now besides myself so that feels like a much safer bet.

I'm very worried about tomorrow and the fact that even if today goes well the ratio is gonna be 4:3 which makes things very hard

I think there's a decent chance Alisae or I die if kyouko is the spare - although idk how many people are even left alive who would want to spare me. but regardless it feels almost inevitable we spare scum tomorrow because I think there are town townreading scum and i don't think all the town alive are really in agreement on much of anything

I

really don't

think we should spare Sakura tomorrow or at all. Her town read on Alisae just doesn't feel real. I don't think town actually town reads that *town slip* that hard without actually *knowing* that it's a town slip. Plus, I feel like Sakura has just consistently pushed as town the people who town read her and scum read the people who scum read her, which like might be a personality tell, but also is kind of a necessary way to play as scum in this setup.

RCE's posts to and about Sakura feel like stereotypically partnery to me and feels like RCE trying to resurrect Sakura's previous widely town read status.

I also just feel like RCE's play isn't genuine. I think the read on alisae is like technically fine, but it feels over done in order to look like a unique towny read. Like I can understand town reading alisae, i don't understand consistently putting alisae a tier above Taly.

I would probably be fine with Alisae tomorrow if enough people can agree on that. I also kinda feel like at this point Alisae has just been TMI'd town by the number of people town reading Alisae

I would probably be fine with ydrasse tomorrow if enough people can agree on that. My read here has kinda gotten stale but I felt very strongly that this slot was town at one point and like, I think those earlier game reads are way more likely to be accurate here than anything else.

I would also spare Bingle tomorrow.

I was soft pushing him yesterday / the phase before to try to hide that fact but I think Bingle is a very solid spare and I feel much more confident convincing people to spare him than I do, say, implosion who everyone has shaded all game.

• Rereading Brown Eyes, I get why so many people town read her early on and I feel like reads from this era of the game are going to be much more accurate than reads formed more recently when scum are actively playing to get town read.
  
• I think Brown Eyes has pretty clearing interactions with Aristeia in 424 and 428 who I think is scum.
  
• I've kinda reversed my initial take and I think Bingle's weird push on me in 2394 and 2422 like almost never comes from scum. It's not only against the grain of the thread but Bingle isn't even trying to *look good* coming out of it. When I see scum trying to get town read by going against the grain they usually try to make it a big case or reasoning that makes them get town read but this just feels like Detective Bingle following his nose.
  
• I don't really see Bingle playing to specifically elevate anyone else nor do I really understand who his partners would be if scum.
  
• To add to the above, Brown Eyes started as a fairly widespread town read and then was gradually taken out of the pool by virtually everyone over the course of the game to basically no complaints or people trying to put the slot back in the pool. If Bingle has team mates then they are team mates in positions that are crazy good or he just doesn't have them.
  
• I don't know rereading his ISO I jsut get the vibe that he's reading and thinking about the game but he's not doing it in a way where I think he's expecting to get town read by his posts. Like he's pointedly not playing to get spared but he is playing to find town/scum and I think that type of slot is one of the most likely to flip town in this game.

i think if our spare pool for tomorrow is alisae/ydrasse/bingle then the game is just winnable tomorrow

[Dannflor]

to be transparent i think the team is exactly like sakura/rce/shirou and they've been subtly pushing each other into or back into the town core for a while now

[Dannflor]

if i get night killed i would like it if people read and considered 4071 even if you don't do it now

[Dannflor]

I'm not completely opposed to an alisae spare but I don't really trust RCE or Sakura and it's kind of weirding me out how quickly this has been pushed over kyouko who feels like... just obviously the best spare today

Yolo vote me do it no balls

no balls

[Dannflor]

happy birthday implosion!

[Dannflor]

Hi Sakura! I don’t have any confidence reading you. So a little summarization of why you’re town would be helpful.

the specific callout to you he does that he doesn't do with anyone else feels like a classic S/S interaction

i also don't really believe RCE would want or would get anything out of you summarizing why you're town

Brown eyes isn’t very prevalent in the game up to where I’ve read but his posting is good. That’s so vague but I guess it’s…tonal/vibe?
Same with Sakura and having an endorsement from my predecessor is a plus.

also just a read I get s/s vibes from. I don't think town actually thinks along the lines of "an endorsement from their predecessor being a plus"

town like to have their own individual reads and are prideful of them

idk i just cannot get these two posts out of my head

[Dannflor]

Hi Sakura! I don’t have any confidence reading you. So a little summarization of why you’re town would be helpful.

the specific callout to you he does that he doesn't do with anyone else feels like a classic S/S interaction

i also don't really believe RCE would want or would get anything out of you summarizing why you're town

Brown eyes isn’t very prevalent in the game up to where I’ve read but his posting is good. That’s so vague but I guess it’s…tonal/vibe?
Same with Sakura and having an endorsement from my predecessor is a plus.

also just a read I get s/s vibes from. I don't think town actually thinks along the lines of "an endorsement from their predecessor being a plus"

town like to have their own individual reads and are prideful of them

idk i just cannot get these two posts out of my head

Isnt that from like back on day 2, how would that be "resurrecting" my townread status, if that's what he's trying to do he decided to drop it before day 2 ended.

day 2 is the last time most people in this game were playing the game

[Dannflor]

i.e. that they would necessarily feel the need to push each other upward, when I think I would be quite afraid to do that as scum in this game because of the potential for extremely damning associatives and I could imagine someone trying to just play under the radar and not really do much toward other people that has the potential to be damning

meh

that's probably smart

but like I think this game was pretty clearly going towards spare from the start, so I do think there is some element of scum realizing that at least one of them needs to be a spare candidate before the end of the game, at least two of them really.

and i am assuming that would be a rare thing to happen naturally in this playerlist but maybe im wrong

[Dannflor]

to be transparent i think the team is exactly like sakura/rce/shirou and they've been subtly pushing each other into or back into the town core for a while now

Speaking of, where has shirou been doing any of this? pretty sure shirou has been hard scumreading rce, if they are partners that's some hardcore distancing.

I'll be honest I was looking entirely at shirou/you

but i also don't think bussing is out of the question especially when scum have to plan to be flipped at some point

I realize I'm now fitting the evidence to the conclusion now though so I'll try to relook at the associations later

[Dannflor]

fuck it we ball

VOTE: alisae

[Dannflor]

thank god

[Dannflor]

im probably never gonna be spared just off of pushing alisae early game bonk but the game is still winnable without that

[Dannflor]

im good with bingle/kyouko

whichever one doesn't get killed tomorrow

[Dannflor]

okay

[Dannflor]

three of you are very bad bad people

[Dannflor]

I don’t think the kill actually deters me from wanting bingle that much, I think he also had the best vote on Alisae’s wagon

[Dannflor]

implosion, what is your read on sakura

specifically like compared to me

I feel like you’ve town read us both pretty consistently but always slightly favored sakura and I’m not sure why that is

[Dannflor]

also I was trying to remember just what games it was that made implo scared of me which had me re-reading my older games and omg i am cringing so hard jesus christ

I don't really see anything that makes me think Ali was solving for a 4 team (it's actually mostly a Danntunnel) but between the sheer lack of giveafuck and this I'm pretty sure e's town.

VOTE: Ali

like i think this vote commits a lot more than sakura's and i like that it's a tonal read not related to the townslip at all

and I pretty much agree with alisae that I feel like it was probably not The Plan for e to get spared there

[Dannflor]

which probably also means RCE is just town unless 4113 is 8th dimensional WIFOM

[Dannflor]

quote this post if anyone wants me for the rest of the game. if this is a town flip it feels won and i don’t feel a need to give my input anymore. it is a miserable experience.

thanks.

ydrasse if you're town here we actually do need you to play because if all the town can't decide on one of us to spare today then we're not sparing town

this day is actually a lot harder than yesterday

[Dannflor]

i don't know there's a world where maybe im tunneled on sakura and the alisae wagon was just all town

but I feel like sakura's vote was the safest "i'll go against consensus vote without actually risking anything" and then bingle kinda surprised her

[Dannflor]

You literally come here, naked voting me, then saying i'm in "that spot where people are just there", and then parroting Meuh's reasons for scumreading me and expect me to believe you're not scum trying to take down strong townread people?

meh

this post almost makes me want to reverse everything and spare sakura

[Dannflor]

i forgot brown eyes pushed aristeia like pretty hard D1


424 and 428 seem pretty uncharitable and there was never really any follow up from aristeia

so probably rce is not bingle's scum buddy trying to fake me out

[Dannflor]

another thing I didn't mention yesterday is that I'm struggling to find who would be Bingle's partners if he has them


like it felt as though almost everyone in the game suddenly either started pushing Bingle or dropped him significantly in their reads as soon as Brown Eyes replaced out. Shirou was pushing Bingle for a long time. implosion was hard town reading brown eyes but then that pretty much disappears once bingle replaces in and the brown eyes town read became "not up to the standard of the game" in 2195

neither of which I'd really expect from a partner

I guess mandate / brown eyes makes some sense but I wouldn't really expect ydrasse to be so demotivated here if that was the case

[Dannflor]

sakura what is your individual read on bingle

[Dannflor]

Basically that it's always possible that I'm mistaking you playing well for you being town.

I don't know what this has to do with the quote from alisae

I also don't know what to do with this read at all

it feels like you're saying there's no amount of town I could be that would lead you to fully trust me which is not really a position I feel you've expressed before today

[Dannflor]

like i think this vote commits a lot more than sakura's and i like that it's a tonal read not related to the townslip at all

This I like, disagree with for several reasons.

One, sure it's committal. What else is Bingle supposed to do yesterday if Bingle is scum? Try to start a different wagon?

Two, I think it's way townier to be giving Alisae credit for the townslip at the point of the game that Sakura was. I feel like scum hate being forced to do that kind of thing and would rather feel like they're coming up with """""actual reasons""""" to scumread someone, like a tonal read. Sentiment about the townslip was a wave that crested, and then came to a trough with people being like "eh idk" or "Alisae could fake that" - and then Sakura came in and used it as a reason anyway. I feel like that's super not a scum mindset.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree that the townslip was less of an *****actual reason***** than a tonal read. In my experience scum are less likely to act purely off tonal reads because they don't feel it's an ****Actual Reason****

[Dannflor]

I think Sakura is like, sort of hard spewed town by Mandate-scum. I find it pretty hard to imagine Mandate on d1 as scum successfully convincing everyone that their partner is super duper obvtown. I think Dann+Sakura is unlikely to play out this way unless third scum is Bingle.

Can you elaborate on why you find it pretty hard to imagine

Mandate is a slot that I find it pretty easy to imagine that he'd play around a partner like that

[Dannflor]

Sakura Hana you aren't making a lick of sense.

I'm not calling you scum right now but...

I think that

Dannflor shinybrassobject Sakura Hana Brown Eyes Keyleth contains a lot of town players probably

Actually I think I jumped the gun on Sakura

I think she is slightly more likely town than scum but nowhere near as towny as any of the people in my list

Also Meuh sounds kinda town now too jeez

Ok that's enough for today goodnight everyone

It's also worth pointing out I do think Sakura is probably town she just isn't there yet? But yeah. Am interested in your thoughts on those 3.

Ok sure fair enough you don't scumread any of them

Oddly enough people are saying stuff like Sakura Hana is the easiest player in the game to read but I think our #1 loss condition is Sakura+Dunn being 2 scum here and I'm actually very stressed about it

Keyleth I don't scumread Sakura I have her as like 90% town I'm just really angsty about losing to the last 10%

I simply don't think Dannflor can present as cohesive a narrative as scum as he did this game, i found it very easy to track exactly what Dannflor was thinking that never entered his posting and then his future posting followed the unspoken trajectory more than the spoken trajectory. Scum try to (usually succeed too) keep narrative cohesiveness from post to post but they usually struggle to have a coherent ""out of thread pov"" that underlines the posts that they actually make. I don't think Dannflor does this successfully as scum.

My initial impression was that scum Sakura would not vote the person she said she was townreading in that way but it's the kind of play that town makes sometimes because it seemed more like a pressure let's see what this does vote but eh

I don't wish to pretend in 100% sure Sakura is town but she still pings town and has no scum pings from me

I do feel, uh, pretty unreserved about Sakura town now so that's nice

idk i don't feel this is an unlikely progression to have on a buddy

[Dannflor]

itching to hammer test

[Dannflor]

actually that doesn’t make sense there’s nothing to test in this gamestate

[Dannflor]

so, if this is correct the team would have to be exactly sakura/implosion/shirou

or someone is trolling/giving up

[Dannflor]

given my lone vote on Meuh isn't doing much and the main alternative wagon is a townread of mine, I shall help poke this

VOTE: implosion

i want to say i've developed my opinion on implosion but i did in fact skim his posts because they felt kinda dense to analyze and understand all the context he was replying to

maybe nearer the weekend

i'll unvote him for now to be fair given he posted more since i last sat down to properly digest his posts

UNVOTE:

so there's no follow up to this progression where shirou sits down and appears to reevaluate implosion, he just kinda keeps soft pushing implosion but not really following through

I think the scum team may be something like Ali/Implo/Dann at the moment, with [Bingle/RCE] filling the spots if any of the first three are town

Good night you all~

rule of 3 game solved

[Dannflor]

i guess it's kind of interesting to me that implosion and shirou have purportedly not town read each other all game but im struggling to find any direct interaction between the two of them

[Dannflor]

idk im aware there's a high chance I'm conf biasing myself into the conclusion that I want right now but I do think that sort of soft distancing is kind of required for scum who is angling to go the spare route, which obviously has been the case since implo's EV post

[Dannflor]

Basically that it's always possible that I'm mistaking you playing well for you being town.

I don't know what this has to do with the quote from alisae

I also don't know what to do with this read at all

it feels like you're saying there's no amount of town I could be that would lead you to fully trust me which is not really a position I feel you've expressed before today

this isn't what i said??

i said i trust sakura more than you right now

the problem is I don't know what your problem is with me exactly

it's just a very nebulous "I could be playing well" but I don't know why that doesn't apply just as much to Sakura or anything else

idk it's the very same paranoia reads I've been dealing with all game but you've not seemed to have as much of an issue with that sort of read until today

[Dannflor]

i will say if for whatever fucking reason dann quickhammers here i would consider that a scumclaim and would be absolutely furious if i died and sakura didn't get spared tomorrow

i don't know what you actually think i would quick hammer a buddy here

[Dannflor]

i will consider the fact that bingle maybe didn't have other options yesterday besides pushing alisae

I guess it's still not helping that I don't see any potential partners for bingle

like I guess there's a world RCE/ydrasse are just hoping I win the game for them but that feels wrong

[Dannflor]

okay

[Dannflor]

bingle is there anyone besides yourself that you'd be comfortable sparing

[Dannflor]

It feels like you're complaining that you're not my #1 townread but you're basically my #2 townread behind Sakura and I don't know exactly why you're complaining about that.

yeah sorry

I think I have been especially ticked off lately by kinda nebulous "well he could be a deepwolf" reads. I responded pretty uncharitably to a similar push by Bingle earlier in the game. and the "well he could just be scum playing well" I think hit me in a similar spot

I'm gonna try to reset and come back to the thread. I'll try to engage your sakura case thoroughly

[Dannflor]

I think this is a good time to ask ourselves if Dannflor is a deepwolf

i miss mandate

[Dannflor]

i am curious how other people feel about what i laid out with regards to how yesterday/today/tomorrow need to be conceptualized differently from each other. Essentially an open question to everyone, how exactly do you conceptualize the Bingle wagon today as making sense, and what are your implications on other people's alignments, if Bingle is town? What about if Bingle is scum?

I mean I think it's exactly you/sakura/shirou if bingle is town and I admit I've let that world view kinda settle in maybe more than I should have

The world where one or both of RCE/ydrasse are WIFOMing the heck out of the day like technically exists, but only if they think the game is so far out of their control that this is the best path to victory they have. I'm not sure what third team mate they could have that would make that world make sense.

if bingle is scum and I am a gigantic fool, I'm not really sure yet and I think it's a world I should be considering more. I think I mostly agree that scum are going to be aware of how they look optically and preparing for tomorrow, in which case I would likely imagine that at least one scum is off wagon and only one of RCE/ydrasse would be scum

[Dannflor]

I feel like I need to know what Shirou's stances are right now to have the best picture of the game to be honest

[Dannflor]

Well if Dann is scum then Bingle HAS to be scum unless Dann was gambiting and hoping Bingle doesnt get hammered after pushing him hard.

idk i guess if im scum with bingle why don't i just push for myself instead

i mean i guess i haven't specifically checked this but i don't think bingle and i looked especially paired before i started hard pushing for his spare

[Dannflor]

ok im actually going to take a break from the thread now and try to read through with fresh eyes

[Dannflor]

VOTE: dannflor

[Dannflor]

shirou has not been to the thread yet

[Dannflor]

so the team wouldn't have to be exactly you/bingle/ydrasse

[Dannflor]

I’m town

[Dannflor]

I don’t know what is happening here but I am town

[Dannflor]

Game is a social experiment all players are town GG thanks for joining everyone please nominate this game for all available scummies categories, it is undertale themed so it is guaranteed to win

[Dannflor]

We should not talk about reads right now because it only helps scum figure out the nk, btw

this is correct though if the game is not over

[Dannflor]

VOTE: dannflor

[Dannflor]

shirou are you still scum reading me

[Dannflor]

Bingle do you ever think there’s a world where scum me pushes for your spare as hard as i do yesterday

[Dannflor]

I didn’t vote you because I didn’t want to rush the day

[Dannflor]

I don’t know I don’t have to push you quite so extremely or like make noises about hammer testing you that’s just gonna end up making me look bad if my intention was never to spare you anyway

like do you actually think I am likely to be scum

[Dannflor]

Yeah…my bad I let Sakura and shirou pressure me off ending the game.

how is it your bad that bingle quick hammered

what are you saying

[Dannflor]

I don’t know I am immensely skeeved out by bingle saying he would absolutely not be comfortable sparing anyone but himself when i asked him point blank yesterday and then contorting himself into knots to justify a hammer on sakura

[Dannflor]

I’m town

I’m very findable as town here

I have no need to play this game the way I have if I’m scum with sakura

[Dannflor]

whoever is actually town here maybe consider the fact that the three night killed townies have all had me as one of if not their top spare choice

and if you’re scum reading me please just ask yourself whether you actually think i can be scum here or if you just want to catch a deepwolf

[Dannflor]

idk it’s gonna be kinda grueling and horrible if everyone just wants to self vote here lol

but i genuinely think i am the most findable as town right now and I don’t think I can bring myself to vote anyone else

[Dannflor]

ggwp

[Dannflor]

i originally wanted to night kill ydrasse but changed my mind

dunno if things would've turned out differently

[Dannflor]

yeah i wish i had been awake to like disrupt that somehow, that was a wp moment of town finding each other

i woke up to the hammer

[Dannflor]

I also think there was a window to push the game towards fight that we passed up