Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!

[Black]

VOTE: Klick

For not talking your girl into joining this awesome playerlist

[Black]

Do you guys purposely not play together or something?

[Black]

VOTE: Black

Do votes during this day actually matter?

Yes. They are good for pressure, more specifically how the people react to said pressure. Eventually it may be useful to see who voted together, who unvoted and why, etc etc

[Black]

Do you guys purposely not play together or something?

We try not to, yeah. Mostly on my part. I'm uncomfortable with the potential for IRL tells unintentionally influencing my play. It's manageable up to a point, but when you live your life around someone and know them really well, it's difficult to avoid, for me at least. So I'd rather avoid the issue entirely.

Besides, she's too good at reading me

You two should totally hydra

/in to that game if you ever do

[Black]

de70 town

[Black]

That's e-1

[Black]

I'd rather not be faded on page 2, kthnx

[Black]

VOTE: skygazer

[Black]

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

[Black]

Neko town

[Black]

I don't think two people actually scumread me

If you do then what is your read based on?

[Black]

UNVOTE:

[Black]

Gut feeling that sky and Dragon are town

My Neko townread wasn't real. I actually think unvoting there could be somewhat LAMIST but I'm not sure if I expect from a newbie. I'm not familiar with ToS or any of those other social games at all so I don't know how high his skill level could be here

[Black]

Are you unsure of how to approach reading me, Black?

I'm not confident in my ability to read you. I think you're a competent scum player capable of mimicking some of your town tactics

[Black]

the reason i'm voting black is similar to the reason i'm TRing DE70. if no one else is getting it then i guess its possible black is town and just didnt catch the thing, idk

I have no clue what you're talking about

I unvoted black simply because it seems foolish to eliminate someone D1

We're going to fade someone D1, just not this early

[Black]

Sky are you talking about 13? I thought this was a townslip until I realized the sample PM's are in the setup post

[Black]

Sky are you talking about 13? I thought this was a townslip until I realized the sample PM's are in the setup post

I think you're probably right that this is what Sky was referring to

it was

Was that your only reason for townreading Dragon?

[Black]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

[Black]

My gut feeling is that sky is mafia; because he thinks me unvoting is scum when I didn't want to bandwagon someone within an hour or two of joining the game

Seems like an easy way to push a noob off if you ask me

I wouldn't be surprised if Skygazer's reasoning for voting you was a bit less straightforward than they stated.

Is there anyone in particular who you feel is unlikely to be Mafia?

I'm typically a very paranoid person so no, No one appears to be likely town to me

Relatable

[Black]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

Why do you think scum are more likely to miss a townslip?

[Black]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

Why do you think scum are more likely to miss a townslip?

seemed indicative that you weren't aware of the gladiator thing

Ok that's believable

[Black]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

My first thought upon seeing it was that it was in 'possibly intentional' territory

Same

[Black]

VOTE: Dragon

I don't think it feels natural for him to have a "serious scumread" on me this early (35) and I don't like how he was unwilling to explain it. In the time it took him to write an unnecessarily long-winded 48 he could have at least summarized his read

Sky's read makes sense in hindsight, but Dragon's doesn't, and I find it unlikely that he scumread me for the same reasons as her

[Black]

Also there's like a 40% chance I wake up at E-1 or something (because of how scummy this move is), but I would just enjoy that soo

This line is throwing me off a little though. If Dragon is scum here then he's aware that this is a scummy move, so I feel like it would make sense for him to just say the read and then go to bed? As opposed to following through with the scummy move anyway. But the last part of "I would just enjoy that" reads a little like he's trying to act casual about being pushed which I think is more likely to come from scum

I'm a bit conflicted here

[Black]

Yeah he could be. I'm just not sure the likelihood of it

[Black]

Was this just the town way to read that post then

Not sure what you're asking.

He's speculating that the two of us are town for reading DE's post the same way he did

[Black]

Don't mind me, i'm just looking over at the glossary to understand all these terms, but yea I do think it seemed intentional as well

Neko you need an avatar, makes it easier for everyone else.

Alright done

Thank you! It looks great

[Black]

Fair. I think my play has been pretty neutral so far on the surface

I've recently gotten into poker and am trying to incorporate a little bit of what I've learned so far into my play

I found that a LAG on my right was the most profitable situation once I learned how to play it.

LAG is missing from the glossary so if you wouldn't mind explaining it, it'd be very much appreciated

I think it's a poker term. Google says it means "Loose-Aggressive"

[Black]

Do you think sky is town?

[Black]

Also do you think I could be scum with Dragon?

[Black]

That's fair. I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the natural progression of having a strong feeling that Dragon is scum combined with not thinking we are partnered would be to think I'm probably town

[Black]

You included me in the group that could go either way which seems a bit unnatural

[Black]

I wasn't expecting it to be a hard townread or anything, I just thought it was odd that you didn't feel like I was somewhat townie based on the strength of you Dragon read and not thinking we were partnered

You seem similar to me in regards to having a hard time trusting players so your opinion here is believable even if I had to force it out of you

[Black]

That's fair. I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the natural progression of having a strong feeling that Dragon is scum combined with not thinking we are partnered would be to think I'm probably town

Fishing for town reads?

Nope. I'm just trying to figure out Neko's thought process

[Black]

I would say I lean town there but it's not very solidified

[Black]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

[Black]

Use your head. Scum!me doesn't need to extract a townread from Neko there, but town!me does need to figure out his thought process so I can sort him better

[Black]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

Doesn't seem very fair to the town now does it

[Black]

Rolling scum with you would be fun but I think hydra'ing with you would be even better

[Black]

Blackflor when?

[Black]

Black town

I'm curious where this read comes from

[Black]

I think I have a pretty good idea what you look for in my town game but I'm not sure I've really done those things yet

[Black]

I just found out how to have my bookmark automatically jump to the first unread post; thats a relief, I've been going through the entire forums this whole time lol

Oh beginner tips! There's something called "Your posts" right underneath the MafiaScum banner in the top right. Once you post in a thread it will also show in this section

Also, if you want to filter out everything and look at one player's posts, you can click on (ISO) next to the post number

[Black]

Top left*

[Black]

I think there's no reason to doubt it if you understand that by "seriously scumreading", I thought she had significantly higher chance than random (33-40% instead of the default 25%) to be scum

Yeah I still doubt that btw even with your clarification

So the first thing that pinged me scum about Black was the fact that she ignored my RVS poke at her. This might sound silly to you, but experience shows that scum often has trouble reacting properly to "fluff posting" (if you want me to go into long winded examples, I will spoiler them at the bottom of this post). So this was a small ping that raised Black from 25% scum to 27% scum, I'd say.

I don't have trouble responding to fluff posting as scum

The second thing that pinged me, and I thought I mindmelded on with skygazer (but it turns out he was scumreading it for an entirely different reason), was Black's attempt to sort of discredit Skygazer's TR on me (at least that's how I read post 26). The scum motivation behind it is obvious because scum don't like town finding each other, and this also ties into meta - I have previously played a game (Open 888) with scum!Black where she discredited reads a lot, so I know it is her playstyle as scum to discredit reads.

You're reading this wrong. I was trying to sort sky with 26, not discredit her. I didn't think the townread made much sense and I wanted her to explain it

Then Black got to E-1, and instead of either defending herself, or trying to find out WHY Skygazer and I were scumreading her (which I feel is what a townie would do), she just posts 32 and 33, which are an attempt to discredit the wagon not by refuting the reasons to scumread her (which are actually valid reasons on both my and Skygazer's part), but by saying (correctly) that limming on page 2 is bad - though that has nothing to do with her alignment.

If I didn't think either of you legitimately scumread me then it makes sense for me to not care about figuring out the reason behind it. I thought it was just pressure

This reads to me as Black knowing she has no way to legitimately defend herself (because she's scum), and so deciding to sort of guilt trip her voters out of voting her by saying it's too early to vote her (+ shading her voters).

I didn't feel the need to defend myself because I didn't think the scumreads were very real

Black has no reason to scumread Sky here. This feels like an attempt to scare Sky off her.

This isn't true. I thought it was scummy that sky decided to keep me at e-1 knowing that someone could just come in and random vote me without noticing how close I was to dying

This feels like both (a) a very "safe" read for scum to make, and (b) a possible attempt to pocket Neko. I don't really see why town!Black would call Neko town for unvoting, because to me it's not that obvious at all than in a town!Black world Neko has to be town to unvote.

42 was a joke read. I didn't really townread Neko from that as I explained in subsequent posts

If we assume that Black really did SR Skygazer here, I really don't see what made her unvote, especially right after claiming she doesn't believe we actually SR'd her (and especially after a post from Skygazer that I think town!Black would probably interpret as disingenuous, because I know I would). I think the scum motivation behind this is to try alleviate pressure off her, since by unvoting she is subtly giving the message of "let's end this conflict and look elsewhere" (which if you look at the next page, is exactly what Black managed to do).

I had a theory floating around in my head that I don't really want to go into atm. I unvoted because I thought sky might be town

What's the town motivation for making an "unreal" read???

To be funny

Now THIS is a fake thought process. If Black thought 13 was a townslip and then realized it wasn't, she would have never posted 26. She would have mentioned something about her own thoughts.

This isn't true at all. I was expecting other players to realize it wasn't a townslip either, especially sky who is a veteran around here. I wanted sky to explain her townread. It wasn't until later that I realized it could probably be because she didn't understand 13 wasn't a townslip

[Black]

VOTE: Claptastik

[Black]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

Doesn't seem very fair to the town now does it

Rolling scum with you would be fun but I think hydra'ing with you would be even better

I don’t really like hydraing but maybe one day I’ll change my mind

Black town

I'm curious where this read comes from

Nice distancing, I'm apparently too good though cause I'm seeing right through it.

I can't wait to see the pie on your face once I'm gone

[Black]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

If it was implied, what benefit does it give you to call it "a bit unnatural"?

If I understand it correctly, she was saying that it was unnatural I wouldn't consider her town if I considered you scum and I didn't think you two were scum partners

Yep, exactly this

[Black]

Proof?

Here, here, and here. I've never heard the theory that scum have a hard time engaging with fluff posting

Maybe. I haven't seen any sorting from you since then, though.

Then you're either blinded by your tunnel or deliberately ignoring it. I've engaged with Neko and Clap in attempt to sort them

Since when are votes "just pressure"? Especially when Sky explicitly called you scum and I explicitly said I would sheep him?

Pressure votes are like the most common type of vote early in the game. I didn't think I had done anything scummy to warrant an actual scumread, and I still don't. Your case is pretty garbage tbh

Why wasn't it scummy for Klick or I not to unvote you then?

Now you're just moving the goalposts
Your original point was that I didn't have any reason to scumread sky, and that's incorrect. But to answer your question, I voted for sky at the exact same time you and Klick posted so I didn't really digest that neither of you unvoted

Why would you make a joke read there? I've never seen someone make a "joke read" in this way (I am not seeing I've never seen any joke reads, just not THIS way).

I was slightly relieved that Neko unvoted and I felt like calling him town for it, shrug

It wasn't even slightly funny.

I don't care if you think it's funny or not

What changed your mind about me?

You kinda just seem like tunneled town that is knee-deep in confirmation bias. You're reading my posts through a scum!Black lens so you think everything you're seeing is scummy. I feel like this is more likely to come from town

[Black]

DragonEater even more town

Read on Black?

I'm not really swayed by your case on Black but regardless I think Black!scum is pretty plausible atp
She needs to start towning yesterday

[Black]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.

Do you honestly expect reads to be strong this early in the game? And do you think OMGUSing is something exclusive to scum? Because I don't

[Black]

VOTE: Klick

184 reminds me of a recent Klick scumgame where he made a similar non-committal, half-shade comment about me:

I'm fairly happy with the Black wagon, I think there's potential for scum there but I don't really want to add momentum to it atm

[Black]

Black what do you think i look for to read you

Behavioral stuff, attitude and tone. Bite. Gotcha posts. Things like that

Now why do you townread me?

[Black]

One thing Black - sorry if it sounded rude when I said your joke wasn't funny, what I meant to say is that it didn't sound like a joke to me

K

[Black]

This case is worse than Dragon's

At least Dragon's had some nuance to it. This is just Clap going through my ISO post by post and applying scum motivations to everything. This could easily be scum. It could be tunneled town but a lot of these points are so questionable that it makes me pause. Like it doesn't really feel like he's trying to sort me. Most if not all of these things can come from town yet for some reason he's just lockscumming me? It doesn't feel like he's engaging in good faith

Follow up on Black:
26 - questions someone else putting out an early town read -

This point is laughable. If I see a townread that I don't understand then of course I'm going to question it. Town does this all the time and I don't really believe Clap thinks this is scum indicative. It's also funny to me because in 244 Clap says he thinks reads are so weak early on that there's "no town reason to be throwing them out", yet for some reason he has an issue with me questioning a page 1 townread? The thought process doesn't line up

39 - doubts that people have enough info to have a serious read on her this early

- Absolutely, and I stand by that. Sky's scumread was a misinterpretation and Dragon's was based on me not engaging with his fluff posts, so I was correct. These aren't scumtells

42 - puts out a bare town read on neko - "Neko town" is the entire post

- This isn't scum indicative

46 - again doubts that there's enough information to have serious reads yet

- Do you think early reads should be weak or not? You seem to be contradicting yourself on this point

53 - puts out gut town reads on sky and dragon, now claims that the town read on neko "wasn't real."

- I had a reason for the gut town reads but I don't think it benefits the town to go into that

92 - excessively focused with the people who have voted her, votes dragon

- I was focused on the only thing happening in the game at the time. That's not scum indicative

94 - backs off the dragon scum read. More concerned with how she appears to others than with generating information to get real reads.

- This wasn't me backing off of the read. I was questioning it. I like to make my thoughts transparent

122 and 124 and 128 - hey newbie you should town read me

- This proves you're not sorting me in good faith. I already explained this and you straight up ignored it. The townread was implied. I wanted to get insight on the way Neko thinks about the game here

133 - wishy-washy town read on neko

- Again you contradict yourself. Should reads be weak or not? I don't even think you know what you believe

162 - detailed defense. Town getting heat early on D1 tend to just continue on and trust that their town game will become apparent in time. Black is focused on herself this game.

- I can't help but defend myself against garbage arguments against me, which is why I'm responding to this post line by line

163 - naked vote on me. Hey let's see if I can deflect the conversation to someone else.

- Naked votes aren't scum indicative

186 - just gross

-

190 - rolleyes response to klick, who made the same observation that I did above, i.e. town!Black would be towning it up

- I rolled my eyes because it instantly reminded me of something Klick did as scum in another game

194 - vote Klick. I mean WTF, why did you vote me? Apparently not in an attempt to sort me

- I think you and Klick make sense as a scumteam

This is a really bad ISO.

- It's not nearly as bad as you're shitty interpretation of it

[Black]

Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair

Yea considering everything I'm now starting to feel like black is scum

VOTE: Black

That should be black E-1

I'm having a hard time believing this progression. I don't think anything Clap said should convince anyone that I'm scum, and if you think Klick is likely scum then it makes me wonder why you decided to join the wagon he's on instead of questioning "hmm could this be a mislim?"

[Black]

VOTE: Black

I don't feel certain about Claptastik yet but I'm pretty happy with this as the game-running narrative

This vote is awful btw

[Black]

Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.

I thin you and Neko are the most likely to be town

I think there's one scum in Clap/Klick. Most likely Klick. Not sure if they are partnered but I'm worried about it. I'm not sure if partners would vote together like this

[Black]

Dragon why is Klick your top townread?

[Black]

K

Now please explain why you TR me and Neko

I don't give a single damn about your Klick scumread tbh.

And we can talk about Clap later.

What's with the attitude? Are you still salty that I neglected you on page 1 or something? Jesus Christ

I already explained why I townread you and Neko. Go look at my ISO asshole

[Black]

Dragon why is Klick your top townread?

I am refusing to explain until I hear Dann's scum case of Klick, because I don't want to give scum!Dann an easy out from having to explain his read.

Why would you explaining your townread on Klick effect Dann's scumcase?

Why are you demanding reads and then not cooperating when I'm asking for yours?

[Black]

Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair

Yea considering everything I'm now starting to feel like black is scum

VOTE: Black

That should be black E-1

I'm having a hard time believing this progression. I don't think anything Clap said should convince anyone that I'm scum, and if you think Klick is likely scum then it makes me wonder why you decided to join the wagon he's on instead of questioning "hmm could this be a mislim?"

Honestly at this point I'm going mentally back and forth and I've realized I've dug myself into a very deep mental game I wasn't expecting

Do you agree with all of Clap's reasons for thinking I'm scum? Like what specifically made you back off of your "Dragon/Black tvt" stance?

[Black]

1. Yes I am still salty

Wow. That's a little pathetic

2. I think you are scum (unrelated to the saltiness) and I am going to make your life hard, intentionally, because I have let scum!you slip away from my sight in the past and I am NOT letting you slip again.

NONE of your reasons for scumreading me are strong enough to be this convinced. It just seems like you don't want to be wrong instead of wanting to sort me in good faith. You're being stubborn

[Black]

I hate AtE but being put at e-1 as a joke, and then being put at e-1 again several pages later is annoying. I'm just trying to play the game

[Black]

I'm the type of player that doesn't respond well to pressure. I get focused on everyone's shitty scumreads on me and it derails the game and it's not fun for anyone

[Black]

Let's talk tomorrow.

Let's not

[Black]

Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair

Yea considering everything I'm now starting to feel like black is scum

VOTE: Black

That should be black E-1

I'm having a hard time believing this progression. I don't think anything Clap said should convince anyone that I'm scum, and if you think Klick is likely scum then it makes me wonder why you decided to join the wagon he's on instead of questioning "hmm could this be a mislim?"

Honestly at this point I'm going mentally back and forth and I've realized I've dug myself into a very deep mental game I wasn't expecting

Do you agree with all of Clap's reasons for thinking I'm scum? Like what specifically made you back off of your "Dragon/Black tvt" stance?

Not all of them but at this point I think I just need to eliminate someone to get information to better my play because I am lost

There's no rush. We still have a player that hasn't even played yet. If you are town then you should get information by questioning people and figuring out the motivations behind what they are doing. You're going to get less information fading someone this early than you would if you just let conversation play out

Klick jumping on my wagon didn't seem concerning at all to you?

[Black]

It's a fucking game

Yeah and it's supposed to be fun, but instead I wake up to being put at e-1 based on yet another shitty scumcase on me, you joining the wagon and rallying others to join, and Klick's scummy vote

Ya'll are annoying af. Let me breathe

[Black]

and I am going to make your life hard, intentionally

Like what the fuck is this? You don't want to sort me. You just want to be right about me so you can say "OoO I caught scum Black!!11!!"

I'M TOWN

[Black]

Yes but when all sides are making valid points and the mental limit has been reached im just gonna follow the crowd at this point because my brain is taxed and I don't think any more back and forth analysis will get me anywhere without results to better make my reads on. This is especially true given the social deduction games I did play before mostly revolve around ability usage, so my social skills isn't strong here

You either think Clap/Dragon are making valid points or I am. I don't see how you can agree with all of us at the same time

[Black]

Yes but when all sides are making valid points and the mental limit has been reached im just gonna follow the crowd at this point because my brain is taxed and I don't think any more back and forth analysis will get me anywhere without results to better make my reads on. This is especially true given the social deduction games I did play before mostly revolve around ability usage, so my social skills isn't strong here

You either think Clap/Dragon are making valid points or I am. I don't see how you can agree with all of us at the same time

Your all making good counter arguments to each others arguments

What specifically did you agree with in Clap's case? Like why do you think I'm scum?

[Black]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

[Black]

This reminds me of myself as town. I like having wagons on me as that generates the best information. Klick has a wagon, but he's not defensive, he's letting it get reads. Black OTOH has been hard defending all day.

I do this as town btw. It's not a scumtell of mine. Though I have a feeling you don't really care and you'll find a way to scumread me saying this somehow

[Black]

@black my reasoning

Doesn't really feel strong enough to convince you I'm scum, but you seem easily swayed and paranoid so I'm willing to chalk it up to personality

For the record I defend myself excessively as town. Obviously I can recreate this as scum but that alone is NAI (non-alignment indicative)

As far as deflecting, I find it funny that you and Clap think I'm scummy for focusing on myself and then when I look elsewhere to try and sort it's called deflecting

[Black]

Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.

I thin you and Neko are the most likely to be town

I think there's one scum in Clap/Klick. Most likely Klick. Not sure if they are partnered but I'm worried about it. I'm not sure if partners would vote together like this

Dragon why is Klick your top townread?

After our conversation earlier about how you weren't sure how to read me, I'm far from convinced you have as strong feelings about me being scum as are conveyed in your recent posts

I find it more likely you're pushing this harder in direct response to the pressure on you

Why are you assuming I have strong feelings about you being scum? I think you're the most likely to be scum here but that doesn't mean the feelings are strong. This just feels like shade. Town!you would more than likely ask me how strong my feelings are instead of just jumping to conclusions to make me look worse

[Black]

I think the three people on my wagon are sorting me in bad faith. There's a lot of reasons that are either NAI or a huge stretch, like they are jumping through hoops to paint me as scum

Dragon does this as town a lot and I just feel like he's in his tunneled town meta

I'm not familiar with Clap so the jury is still out here

Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon

[Black]

Like I think town!Klick sees poor reasons being used to push someone and he questions them. Instead he is just blindly following them. It doesn't track with how I would expect Klick to sort here

[Black]

Why are you assuming I think you have *strong* feelings about me being scum? I think the urgency you're conveying in your posts about the potential of me being scum is strong relative to how much evidence you seem to be working with.

You interpreted a post where I asked Dragon to explain his townread on you as me having strong feelings that you're scum. I don't agree with the townreads so I want to hear why people have them. It's really not that hard to understand

I don't think your vote on me holds water. I think it's there because you're feeling defensive and want a plausible counterwagon. What I want to discern is whether that's town defensive or scum defensive.

If you're town, I want to get somewhere with you beyond vague baseline paranoia.

shrug

I don't really care. I don't have many strong feelings about anyone and so far your behavior is the scummiest thing to me, so yeah I'm going to vote for you

[Black]

Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon

I agree with zero of the reasons but I don't think that means you're town

???

So you see people casing me for like 10 reasons that you don't agree with and you have no reaction to it at all?

[Black]

Black i would prefer you voted for clap

I'm not opposed to going there but why do you townread Klick?

[Black]

I just think it seems really convenient to hop on my wagon despite not agreeing with any of the reasons why I could be scum

[Black]

I think klick is approaching this in a way that doesn’t optically make him look very good

Clap intentionally is

Yeah, I can see that wrt Klick actually

[Black]

VOTE: Claptastik

[Black]

I just think it seems really convenient to hop on my wagon despite not agreeing with any of the reasons why I could be scum

right doesnt that look opticLly bad?

like why not invent his own unique overjustified case?

oh wait that was claptastic who did that

I mean Klick would have to make it look natural, and I don't think there are many natural reasons to scumread me atm, so it's easier for scum!Klick to just hop on the wagon and be like "pressure yo"

[Black]

I'm the type of player that doesn't respond well to pressure. I get focused on everyone's shitty scumreads on me and it derails the game and it's not fun for anyone

So...people shouldn't pressure you because you'll make sure the game's no fun for anyone?

People can pressure me but I expect them to do it in good faith and to admit when they might be wrong

[Black]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

Nah I just overlooked them. Thanks for providing an answer tho

[Black]

This reminds me of myself as town. I like having wagons on me as that generates the best information. Klick has a wagon, but he's not defensive, he's letting it get reads. Black OTOH has been hard defending all day.

I do this as town btw. It's not a scumtell of mine. Though I have a feeling you don't really care and you'll find a way to scumread me saying this somehow

NGL what you wrote seems to be admitting that you're playing scummy. When you say you do "this" as town, what's "this"? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I hard defend myself when pushed for very poor reasons (like your case)

And no I don't think it's scummy

[Black]

As far as deflecting, I find it funny that you and Clap think I'm scummy for focusing on myself and then when I look elsewhere to try and sort it's called deflecting

Voting someone then not following up is deflecting, not sorting.

It wasn't deflecting regardless of what you say. I townread Dragon's case against me and moved to someone I thought had a decent chance to be scum

[Black]

I think the three people on my wagon are sorting me in bad faith. There's a lot of reasons that are either NAI or a huge stretch, like they are jumping through hoops to paint me as scum

There's only two scum.

It's doubtful that both of them are on you this early

. So, at least two of the three on you are town.

What motivation do townies have to push you in bad faith?

I agree, and I even said that

Well if Dragon is town then he's pushing me in bad faith because he wants to catch me as scum as opposed to wanting to solve me. Some arguments are made in bad faith because people are stubborn

[Black]

People can pressure me but I expect them to do it in good faith and to admit when they might be wrong

"In good faith" is a weasel term.

I might be wrong. I thought it went without saying in a game of mafia, particularly on D1, but now it's said. Is that good?

Nah, that's not good enough. I want you to respond to my rebuttal of your case so I can tell if you're town pushing me for bad reasons or scum pushing me for bad reasons

[Black]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

Nah I just overlooked them. Thanks for providing an answer tho

What do you think of the reasoning on klick in those posts? Do you think I'm scum with klick?

Probably not. I think it's more likely that there's one scum within you

[Black]

Nah, that's not good enough. I want you to respond to my rebuttal of your case so I can tell if you're town pushing me for bad reasons or scum pushing me for bad reasons

I thought your rebuttal was weak. I think responding to weak scum arguments plays into the hands of scum. I'm fine letting everyone decide based on what's out there.

Of course you do

So you're either stubborn town or you're scum pushing me. Your case was absolute shit. If you can't argue against my rebuttal then that only proves my point

[Black]

Yeah Klick is my strongest TR, and with how Clap has been towning it up recently, they are a close second (Neko/Sky were previously tied for second place and are now tied for third place)

Agreed, you, klick and neko look pretty solidly town.

Why do you think Klick is town?

I explained that in 245 247 and 255. You're not reading for content, i.e. not really trying to sort people, or you would know this.

Nah I just overlooked them. Thanks for providing an answer tho

What do you think of the reasoning on klick in those posts? Do you think I'm scum with klick?

Probably not. I think it's more likely that there's one scum within you

What do you think of my reasoning on klick?

245 is ok. I disagree with 247 - I think it's much easier to stay calm and collected when being wagoned as scum as opposed to town. 255 is bad too because weren't you arguing that it doesn't make sense to have strong reads this early? And now suddenly you townread Klick for having strong reads? It's easier for scum to have strong reads, or to at least pretend that they do, because they know everyone's alignments. Town are more likely to be wishy washy and fluid with their reads early in the game

[Black]

I also strongly disagree that it's scummy to vocalize reads even if they are weak. I always try to be transparent with my reads regardless of their strength

[Black]

I don't think so. Black is either floundering scum or bad, over-defensive town. Without dannflor backing her she'd be in trouble.

Nah, your case is shit homie. You're not fading me with that hot garbage

You're the one playing bad if you are town, not me

As for dannflor, he appears to be the most annoying type of player there is -

the old guard who thinks he's so damn good he doesn't need to explain himself

. And sometimes those people are that good, but there's no way for newer people like you or me to know that.

If you think you are good at this game you need to check yourself. Your ego is inflated for no reason

[Black]

VOTE: Klick

Kinda think Clap is just a bad/stubborn townie

Tin foil read that Klick/Dann is the solve so I want to go back here

[Black]

So you agree with my logic that klick's post was town. Why am I, as scum, making town points for a townie who has a wagon on him? DOesn't it make much more sense to leave open the option to get on that wagon if I need to? That flexibility is much more important than some nebulous town cred scum!me might get if klick does get limmed without my vote.

Have you ever heard of pocketing?

Seriously? Wow, most people would find being pressured D1 as part of a 2-person team to be more stressful than being pressured as 1 out of 7.

Maybe it's a personality thing. I generally don't mind getting pushed when I'm scum

As noted, the issue is that scum need to generate mislims, and putting out strong town reads limits their options down the road. you understand that, right?

There's not much harm in scum putting out strong reads early in the game. I see them do it all the time and then change their opinion as things develop. You understand that is an option, right?

[Black]

Yes. I rarely see scum trying to pocket someone with a wagon on them though.

That's one of the best times to do it. It makes the person being pressured feel really good about them because they are alleviating some of the pressure for them

It's only an option if people like you let them get away with it.

You're implying here that you don't think it's normal for townies to change their reads as new developments happen, which is a really weird opinion to have

[Black]

yea tbh I don't like dann simply because he won't explain his train of thought

You should join the Klick wagon

[Black]

The premise that "scum have weak reads and town have strong ones" is laughable

[Black]

Nah, that's not good enough. I want you to respond to my rebuttal of your case so I can tell if you're town pushing me for bad reasons or scum pushing me for bad reasons

I thought your rebuttal was weak. I think responding to weak scum arguments plays into the hands of scum. I'm fine letting everyone decide based on what's out there.

I think it's funny how you claim to have this belief yet you've responded to literally every single argument I've made except for my rebuttle against your case

Just admit your case is poop and move along

[Black]

How about the premise 'scum need to keep mislim options open? Is that laughable?

If you don't think scum throw out early townreads only to change them later based on new developments then I don't know what to tell you. It's super common

[Black]

Maybe your scum game is really bad and you don't know how to believably incorporate previous townreads into the PoE, but not all of us have that issue, and I guarantee you Klick doesn't

[Black]

Maybe your scum game is really bad and you don't know how to believably incorporate previous townreads into the PoE, but not all of us have that issue, and I guarantee you Klick doesn't

Yeah, scum make rebuttable town reads, just like you've been doing. I'm glad we're on the same page.

Guess who else makes rebuttable town reads? Town!

And if you don't think any of Klick's reads will be easy to reverse later in the game then you're delusional

[Black]

Honestly I don't know who to suspect at this point, but my feelings right now
Dragon Probably town, wants to eliminate black regardless of alignment
Dann feels scummy just because of how limited information he's sharing

Neutral: Clap, Sky, Klick, Fakegod, Black

What happened to your gut scumread on Klick?

[Black]

I think this argument is +town for both of you

I disagree, but if it is tvt, scum are just coasting, so it has to end for a while.

Yeah run along now

[Black]

I don't really know at this point, I'm just not trusting my gut because I am lost in this 5D chess game

I understand not trusting your gut but like...where did the read go? Did Klick do something you think is town indicative?

[Black]

Meh. I'm sorry. My goal isn't to purposely ruin someone else's time. I've been annoyed at this game all day and you were the primary source so I've been lashing out, but I realize that's pretty shitty of me

I'll take a step back. I don't want you to be miserable

[Black]

The fact she was trying to break up a TvT fight; scum wouldn't want that to end, because if its truly a TvT fight both of them kinda get ignored. It just kinda makes me lean more towards a neutral view on klick

I disagree here but I can see why you would believe that

I think it makes scum look +town to interfere and call something tvt, and it would be easy for Klick to do here if he's scum and Clap is town

[Black]

I think this argument is +town for both of you

I disagree, but if it is tvt, scum are just coasting, so it has to end for a while.

Yeah run along now

You really are making this game miserable. Hope you're proud of yourself.

This is probably a town post btw. It could be scum faking these emotions but I kinda doubt it

[Black]

The fact she was trying to break up a TvT fight; scum wouldn't want that to end, because if its truly a TvT fight both of them kinda get ignored. It just kinda makes me lean more towards a neutral view on klick

I disagree here but I can see why you would believe that

I think it makes scum look +town to interfere and call something tvt, and it would be easy for Klick to do here if he's scum and Clap is town

I mean scum writing it off as TVT fight would only make it appear like it was a TVT fight; The only way I see it being benefical is if there was a scum in the "TVT" and the other scum was trying to get them both written off

I have seem scum play the mediator role before for exactly this reason. It makes some players think they're town. Easy towncred

[Black]

I'm not saying that's what Klick is doing. I still think he could be town, but I wouldn't write it off as a definitive town move

[Black]

VOTE: FakeGod

whats the incentive to vote FakeGod here?

In short, I'm not convinced that FakeGod is solving instead of just posting enough out in the open designed to look plausible enough to get by atm

I had this thought too

Maybe you are town

[Black]

VOTE: FakeGod

Let's explore it

[Black]

Hi Kawaii :3

[Black]

Had you read anything at all before writing 411?

[Black]

Had you read anything at all before writing 411?

Skimming, definitely need to do in depth reading
Initially I'm seeing a lot of conflict, it's insane

So you skimmed before asking Klick about FakeGod? Did you feel like Fake was solving in the posts you read?

[Black]

Honestly, my feeling here is that klick + dann is scum; dann in general has felt like scum for just mostly lurking and refusing to share his insight. Klick i've been kinda back and forth on but now I'm just rather firm on the idea that he's scum

Hey that's my tin foil solve, give it back

[Black]

I think Kawaii jumping in and immediately defending FakeGod was a little jarring. I think there's partner equity here

Neko still feels town but a lot of his reads and opinions are unoriginal and he's been getting on and off lots of wagons as they gain/lose momentum. This isn't necessarily scum indicative but it's something I did a lot in my first scum game on the site so it makes me a little wary

[Black]

Sorry Black btw

Honestly I don't think you did anything that would require you to apologize to me. You're just playing the game. I got a little irritated when you said you were salty about me not engaging with you because it's something Shea does to me a lot and I really hate feeling like I have to engage with someone or else they'll be mad at me. Then you said you didn't give a damn about my Klick read and that bothered me too. But I still don't think you crossed a line. I did however. So I'm sorry for calling you an asshole and being a little brat. I had a really bad day. I'll try to control myself moving forward

[Black]

I try my best to not make things toxic and I think I've been pretty good about it lately. I slipped up today. I'm never going to be fully comfortable getting scumcased for what I consider to be bad reasons but that's no excuse to take it to the level I did

[Black]

Dann is just very distant, lurking a fair amount

I'll let Dann respond to your other points but this in particular isn't alignment indicative. Dann has had a busy weekend with family in town so he hasn't been on the site much at all

[Black]

VOTE: FakeGod

whats the incentive to vote FakeGod here?

In short, I'm not convinced that FakeGod is solving instead of just posting enough out in the open designed to look plausible enough to get by atm

May you please explain this? I just got in so Idk what you mean. What posts show FakeGod not solving?

Had you read anything at all before writing 411?

Skimming, definitely need to do in depth reading
Initially I'm seeing a lot of conflict, it's insane

Had you read anything at all before writing 411?

Skimming, definitely need to do in depth reading
Initially I'm seeing a lot of conflict, it's insane

So you skimmed before asking Klick about FakeGod? Did you feel like Fake was solving in the posts you read?

I felt what FakeGod was being reasonable, 188 made sense minus the Klick vote.
I saw 230 making sense initially but now I want elaboration why the poe specifically points to Klick.
I see the observations in 348 as good, sorting through playstyles vs. alignment.

These posts are what gave me the feeling

In the first quote Kawaii mentions that he "just got in" so I got the impression that he didn't do much reading. It seemed weird that he questioned Klick's read right away and the timing made it worse considering the Fake wagon just gained steam

In the second quote he said he had skimmed the game, and in the third quote he gave a detailed analysis of why he thinks Fake is solving. It just felt strange for him to focus in on this one particular thing and it seems clear he spent a bit of time looking at it

I'm not sure if scum!kawaii would defend his buddy so hard right out the gate but it definitely gave me pause

Now that I'm looking at it I feel like Kawaii could be scum in a town!Fake world as well and he was using this as a launching point to make it seem like he's trying to solve. He could be trying a pockety type thing with Fake. I also think some of the stuff Kawaii asked after this felt odd, like the site meta from 5 years ago. I understand being interested in that type of stuff but it doesn't really pertain to this game and it seemed like posting just to post

[Black]

Also for future reference - is saying "I don't give a damn" offensive? I am not a native English speaker and sometimes I give different weight to words than native speakers.

It gives off the vibe of a really abrasive and aggressive tone and some people don't respond well to that. It's not crossing a line but I had a visceral reaction to it

[Black]

Again it's not your fault, I need to control my reactions better when I'm in a bad or vulnerable mood

[Black]

On second thoughts msybe that's just Kawaii's playstyle, I think I maybe saw similar interactions from them as town before

UNVOTE:

I'll pass final judgment when I am caught up

I can confirm that Kawaii plays a little weird. I've scumread him when he's been town a couple times so I'm hesitant to poke there. I kinda just want to see what else he cooks up

[Black]

I got into the game as FakeGod was being pushed, I wanted to know why FG was being pushed so I went into Fake's IS0 to see if I felt Klick was right about Fake not solving. I find it easiest to focus in on a specific thing than reading an entire game dp blind without knowing what to look into. Looking into it I feel Fake is solving and I want to explore the solve; Klick failing to unvote you at E-1 concerns me. I wanted to know at what point a read became set and why in Klick's mind in the old meta

That makes sense

[Black]

I started a new job today so my activity during day time hours is going to plummet. I'll have to do all my catching up at night (central American time)

[Black]

Congrats Black!

I started a new job today so my activity during day time hours is going to plummet. I'll have to do all my catching up at night (central American time)

Congrats! I've been on the job hunt for a while now myself

Thanks guys! And good luck Neko!

I'm on lunch break now but there's not much to respond to

I agree that Klick not unvoting me right away isn't all that scummy. It's a little anti-town maybe but I don't think it implicates him as scum. I had an issue with Sky not unvoting because she directly acknowledged that I was at e-1 and didn't seem to care if I was faded or not. That plus (what I thought at the time) was a weird townread of Dragon made me vote there

[Black]

Right now I think I'm ok fading within {Fake, Klick} and maaaaybe Kawaii but like I said earlier I think I want to see more from him before throwing him off a cliff

[Black]

If I get heat for it, then so be it.

But it's anti-town and I'm calling it out.

Why did you not have any issue with Dragon or sky not caring that I was at e-1? Like what specifically makes you want to single out Klick here

[Black]

it's bugging me that black made no indication she knew about the gladiator thing until it was heavily hinted at, so maybe she is just scum here

I didn't feel the need to comment on it

Would you really have felt better about me if I had said "I thought this was a townslip until I noticed the sample PMs in the first post" ?

[Black]

Yeah I think sky is probably town. She could be scum trying to keep her fake scumread of me alive but I'm not sure about that

Like I don't think it makes sense for scum!sky to suddenly move on just because the rest of the thread has

But I do feel like she just genuinely believes I could be scum for that

[Black]

it's bugging me that black made no indication she knew about the gladiator thing until it was heavily hinted at, so maybe she is just scum here

Why is this relevant? I wasn't here for this but what? Why does this mean Black may be scum?

Sky thought her townread on Dragon should have been obvious

I didn't think she thought he townslipped because I assumed she knew the sample PMs were in the first post

She thinks I scum slipped because I asked her why she townread Dragon

[Black]

actually no scratch that, i feel like it should've been fairly obvious why you were being wagoned if you were aware of the gladiator thing

I had no clue why I was being wagoned. I assumed pressure or maybe as a joke

You and Dragon weren't even voting me for the same reasons

[Black]

VOTE: black

black had no idea why she was being wagoned which is completely inconsistent with her claim that she had known about the slip stuff from the start

Huh? Where is the inconsistency?

[Black]

VOTE: Dannflor

[Black]

kawaii is just asking a lot of nothing questions and kind of commentating the game

i don't super feel they are invested in finding scum

They do that as town

[Black]

kawaii is just asking a lot of nothing questions and kind of commentating the game

i don't super feel they are invested in finding scum

They do that as town

I concur, I think it's playstyle

My source is this game

What is your read on Dannflor?

[Black]

do either of you specifically town read kawaii or do you just believe that isn't a reason to scum read them

It's not scum indicative of him

[Black]

think klick/claptastik is still my top 360 no-scope pick for a scum team actually

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

This is hard to believe considering you townread him for *reasons* and tried to dismantle his wagon

[Black]

I want to fade Klick or Dannflor today

[Black]

think klick/claptastik is still my top 360 no-scope pick for a scum team actually

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

This is hard to believe considering you townread him for *reasons* and tried to dismantle his wagon

remember my read on blackstar

No, my memory is shit and I have no energy or motivation to go dig it up

[Black]

Why are you voting Clap over Klick when it seems pretty obvious that there is a bigger appetite for a Klick wagon

[Black]

VOTE: Clap

e-2

And no I don't care that this goes against my tinfoil solve of Klick/Dann. Scumread me for it if you want

[Black]

My main reason for changing my mind about Clap was 395 but it's just not that convincing to me anymore

[Black]

Currently I have black, neko, de70, and you north of null

Why did your opinion of me change

[Black]

VOTE: FakeGod

[Black]

I like that Clap preemptively looked at both Dann's meta and my meta. He didn't try to flaunt that he did it but instead he brought it up when it was relevant or he was asked about a read. It makes me feel like he's trying to solve the game and I'm back to thinking he's probably town

[Black]

i keep coming back to how strange of a post 577 is

Yeah I'm not familiar with kawaii efforting this hard. It kinda feels like he's artificially trying to town it up

I want to look back over the couple of games we played together to make sure I'm not misremembering but I won't be able to do that until I get off work

[Black]

^ not really liking this post

Town that is aware they are tunneling typically tries to reverse that or reevaluate

"I'm a new player and I need to hold onto something for my sanity" sounds like a pretty convoluted excuse to stop solving

[Black]

That was referencing 668

Kinda feels like Neko is leaning into this whole newb obvtown thing

[Black]

Neko where did this sudden confidence come from. You've been changing your reads all game based on the direction of the thread

[Black]

^ not really liking this post

Town that is aware they are tunneling typically tries to reverse that or reevaluate

"I'm a new player and I need to hold onto something for my sanity" sounds like a pretty convoluted excuse to stop solving

Well At this point my ability to read anyone is significantly shot at this point with information overload

Then it doesn't really make sense for you to say you're confident that at least one scum was on my wagon

575 doesn't even feel like you're confident. It's super hedgy

[Black]

Neko where did this sudden confidence come from. You've been changing your reads all game based on the direction of the thread

It's not confident reads at all, But at this point I figure i need to just stick to a read instead of just flipflopping all game

You're making it sound like your flipflopping was a choice

[Black]

Can anyone explain to me why Neko is obvtown

[Black]

Neko where did this sudden confidence come from. You've been changing your reads all game based on the direction of the thread

It's not confident reads at all, But at this point I figure i need to just stick to a read instead of just flipflopping all game

You're making it sound like your flipflopping was a choice

Not really, I couldn't make a read at all because either they defended themselves well or someone else became more sus, and now i just want to stick on focusing someone at this point

You said your Dann/Klick solve (which you copied from me btw) was a very weak thought in 624 so why are you choosing to focus on a weak feeling?

[Black]

I'm still leaning towards klick/dann being scum

FakeGod feels town to me definitely, with me slightly leaning towards black being town

This FakeGod read doesn't come from someone that is supposedly having a really hard time reading people

[Black]

Sounds like a confident read to me

[Black]

I'm still leaning towards klick/dann being scum

Why do you feel dann is scum with klick? Not explaining his klick read?

Not explaining his klick read, his weird interactions with klick; None of it feels really organic at all tbh

Instead of organic you feel it's theatrical? hope dann is delaying explaining his klick read, hope we know why soon.

Yea and if you look at their previous conversation under the light that DE7 shows (potential distancing) The shift in the way they converse after being called out for potentially distancing, with dann instead of suggesting klick could be scum, now is "klick is town but I'm keeping it to myself trust me bro" definitely feels extremely sus

It doesn't feel like you are lacking confidence in this read either

[Black]

VOTE: Neko

I'm willing to listen to arguments why he's obvtown but I'm not seeing it

I look at his ISO and I see a bunch of sheeping opinions and hopping on and off wagons as the momentum shifts

Feels way too opportunistic, and 668 is just really bad imo

[Black]

I think newscum is super likely to repeat opinions that have already been stated and I don't think newtown is as likely to have this problem. It's harder for newscum to come up with original thoughts...I would know because I played this exact way in my first scum game here

[Black]

Neko claims to be really paranoid but I don't think that coincides with how he has started to townread a lot of his scumreads once the thread consensus moved on from them

[Black]

It happened with me, sky, dragon, and now FakeGod

[Black]

I don't think Neko is solving at all. I think he's just pushing where it is convenient to do so. If you don't believe me just look at his ISO

[Black]

4 people created the E-1 wagon on page 2. Their names are Klick, NekoLover, DragonEater70, and Skygazer.

They held it until Neko unvoted at his earliest convenience, so I would remove Neko from the scum pool.

Skygazer is the one who put poor Black on E-1 to begin with, but it was because he thought he saw a scumslip. If I saw a scumslip, I would take the same action he did. Dragon put momentum on the wagon by being the 3rd vote on the wagon, and my initial suspect out of the group (hence my early vote). I admit I did like 154. It felt a little hare-brained to me, but it could at least stumble through it and see what Dragon was thinking

I think it's weird that this is the only time Fake has mentioned Neko. There's partner equity here

[Black]

VOTE: FakeGod
I'm following the train

This leaves FakeGod at E-2

Also UNVOTE: FakeGod
VOTE: Klick

After reading all that i'm more confident fakegod is town

I'm still leaning towards klick/dann being scum

FakeGod feels town to me definitely, with me slightly leaning towards black being town

can someone sum up the wagon on fakegod? I don't understand why he's at E-2 even after reading back

These feel weird but maybe Fake is town and Neko is just trying to pocket him? Idk

[Black]

First thing she did when greeting our replacement was to punch him in the face affront him by asking him if he has read anything at all before he made his 1st post

For the record I asked him this not as an attack, but because I thought it felt unnatural for him to jump in and defend you so quick without reading any of the game. I wanted him to clarify if he had read at all. The way he worded his entrance made it seem like he hadn't

What is your read on Neko?

[Black]

I think klick is approaching this in a way that doesn’t optically make him look very good

Clap intentionally is

Rereading, and this post cracked me up. This site is like mafia bizarro world or something.

I don't understand why you find this odd

He's basically saying that he believes you're trying too hard to avoid getting scumread

What is your read on Neko?

Kinda want you to go into detail about it if you can

[Black]

You should explore the Skygazer gut townread more if you think you can @Black

Klick why did you ask this

I think it's pretty obvious from the way you asked this question that you have some sort of idea where the gut read came from

I don't think town!Klick asks this

[Black]

VOTE: Klick

Still down to go Neko if that gets any support but I think this is way more likely to flip scum than Clap or Fake

[Black]

Wait. I'm looking back now and I'm not as convinced that Klick is doing what I think he's doing with this question

I still think he's more likely to flip scum than the other two wagons but this particular point is a little weaker upon reread

I'm keeping my vote here for now. I have reasons that I'll disclose eventually

[Black]

"Resetting reads to neutral" doesn't really feel like something I would be able to do as town. Even without prior knowledge of playstyles or anything, there are just going to be people you should find less or more likely to be scum/town

[Black]

Neko what are your thoughts on Kawaii?

[Black]

"Resetting reads to neutral" doesn't really feel like something I would be able to do as town. Even without prior knowledge of playstyles or anything, there are just going to be people you should find less or more likely to be scum/town

Not at all, 90% of this day 1 is just "They acted like this in this scum game" and at this point I legitimately have no reads on anyone because most of it relies on knowing each others playstyle and metaing the shit outta them

I can see where you're coming from

[Black]

You've played Mafia before though so there should be things you think are more or less likely to be scum indicative. Meta is used but it shouldn't be the leading factor in any case, unless it's just obvious

Can you go over what you think about kawaii so far?

[Black]

^ @Neko

[Black]

"Resetting reads to neutral" doesn't really feel like something I would be able to do as town. Even without prior knowledge of playstyles or anything, there are just going to be people you should find less or more likely to be scum/town

Not at all, 90% of this day 1 is just "They acted like this in this scum game" and at this point I legitimately have no reads on anyone because most of it relies on knowing each others playstyle and metaing the shit outta them

I can see where you're coming from

Hiya
I'm doing Neko next, and atm I'm very much back in 'Neko is obvtown' camp
But I don't know how effectively I can put the read into words

It would help quite a bit if I could dialogue it with you if you're around for a bit

Driving home from work at the moment

[Black]

I'm home now but I'm running a fever so I don't feel like reading the wall posts

I'm willing to admit I could be wrong about Neko and I also wouldn't mind fading kawaii today

[Black]

I want to know what Neko thinks about kawaii before we end the day

[Black]

Kawaii is e-2 I think

@klick is there anything specific you want to talk about

[Black]

VOTE: Kawaii

e-1

[Black]

I think Klick and Dann are two of the best players on the site, if not the best. I'm always going to be concerned that they are playing me. But I also think that if Klick is town then he'll be really useful in solving the game so I'm fine ignoring those concerns for now

[Black]

Kawaii is e-2 I think

@klick is there anything specific you want to talk about

What's your read on FakeGod

I don't really have a strong read there but I still think he could be scum with kawaii

Outside of that association I'm not sure. He's been hard townreading me all game which I'm always a little wary of

I would say I lean scum here

[Black]

(I hope you feel better Klick. My fever just started today. There's been a bunch of COVID going around so I'm a little worried)

[Black]

A quick look at his ISO and Fake has been doing a ton of talking about me but like...no talking to me, like at all. Maybe he feels confident that he can read me from the outside but that's not how I like to sort. I would rather engage with people

I think his case on you regarding my wagon at e-1 is bad

[Black]

i am also a member of the fever club tonight

[Black]

So much for intent and a claim...

[Black]

So much for intent and a claim...

There's a reason for that. Think about it.

What was this about?

[Black]

I think Dann is probably town. It doesn't seem very intuitive for scum!Dann to continuously paint Kawaii in a bad light when he could have easily just ignored Kawaii's weird posts. Instead he drew attention to them in a way that makes me think they're not partnered

Clap is probably town too. The Kawaii wagon happened really quickly and I don't think it makes a ton of sense for Clap to hammer that without even letting Kawaii speak, or without giving the wagon a chance to diffuse

I still think Fake or Neko make the most sense as possible partners

[Black]

ig i think claptastik/kawaii is the solve rnow in my heart of hearts

I'm curious if you still think this

Maybe Clap saw this and was like "I'm gonna hammer to get Dann off my trail" but ehh, idk

[Black]

Maybe Neko is just town because Klick was obvtown reading him, so it doesn't really make a lot of sense for Neko to kill Klick. I think there would be way better NK options for scum!Neko

[Black]

Sounds good to me

[Black]

I'm down to vote Neko or Sky. Maybe Clap. I don't really think it's Dragon

[Black]

Wouldn't aureal just come out and declare game over at this point if there's nothing that can stop town from winning?

No. It's not guaranteed. We still have to do the things

[Black]

the fakegod/claptastik exchanges on this page feel like s/s distancing tbh

where is kawaii at vote wise? i like klick's comparison to monkey business

This feels a little weird. Sky hadn't mentioned kawaii at all until he was getting wagoned. She thought fake/clap felt like s/s and also thought I could be scum yet she was suddenly fine going for kawaii over the 3 of us?

[Black]

It’s follow the jailkeeper

Fakegod is innocent due to me jailing him last night

Oh wait, sorry I have to confirm that I am NOT the tracker for us to have an auto-win.

I claim VT.

How confident are you in your sky townread

[Black]

I'm VT

VOTE: Sky

[Black]

How confident are you in your sky townread

I think we are in auto-win, yeah?

I guess we could go for style points and execute final scum today for perfect win.

I think only two viable scum players left are Sky and Neko, and I thought Sky was slightly more town than Neko.

We should always strive for the perfect win

[Black]

We should always strive for the perfect win

Too late. Klick died. Perfect would be jailing the scum or intended victim last night, then limming the scum today.

Perfect enough